Hi, everyone. Welcome back. We're so glad to be back with you. We took a short hiatus and we are very excited to be back in the saddle with our podcast. Today we have windy Rosso. And she is one of our co founders of mending trauma. When did you want to introduce yourself?
My name is Wendy amoroso. And D is a
psychologist, which is somebody who works with cells. And she has been doing that work for a couple of decades. She also has done work with the National Institute of Health, and is one of the bright lights in our program and our founders. She has a deep commitment to helping people and a deep commitment to understanding how different experiences affect our body and even into into a cellular level. So welcome, Wendy. We're glad you're here.
Thank you, Lena, I appreciate it. I'm glad to be here.
We are talking today about faith and trauma. And when Wendy and I were getting ready to do the podcast, we talked a little bit about how faith has different meanings in English. And that what we hope to address is both the idea or the concept of a faith tradition. But we also hope to talk to talk a little bit more about spirituality, and taking religion out of the equation. And talking about how we can have our own sense of having a power greater than ourselves, whether it's the universe or love, or any other way that you call the power that you recognize us higher than yourself. And we wanted to make sure that we did distinguish the idea that we are talking about two different things here. We're talking about faith traditions, and we're also talking about spiritual connection. Does that sound right, Wendy?
Yes. Yes, exactly. Right.
Great. So we believe that everybody who has been impacted by trauma, which is most of us, I'm not saying that we're all diagnosed with PTSD. But all of us have had some form of trauma growing up, I used to tell people that it's kind of like chiropractic care. So as you go through life, you have these bumps and falls and bruises and that kind of thing that can throw your spine off. And that's a little bit how I think about trauma is that we can have these experiences within our important relationships in our early lives, and that those throw us off in terms of our inner world, our perception of ourselves and our perception of the world. And Wendy was talking to me earlier today about some research that has been done with Vietnam veterans, and the concept of faith with Vietnam veterans, what did you look at Wendy? And what information do you have for us?
Yes, I have some information that I love to share. So first of all, for me, that faith just means a trust and confidence in something or someone, right. And it doesn't have to be, you know, only people that go to organize religion have faith, or only people that experience spirituality in a different way, have faith or only people, like you can have faith that nature. We interact with nature, and we have honor and respect for nature. So faith covers sort of all categories of spirituality is what I was sort of thinking. And as I was reviewing some of the literature from the Office of Veteran Affairs regarding trauma and faith, I noticed that they cited a Gallup poll and the most recent Gallup poll says that 81% of people in the US in the US believe in God at 1% or a spirit show or a higher power or nature. They believe there's something beyond themselves. And they have faith in that and they believe in that and some people get confused because church attendance has dropped a little bit. Church membership has dropped a little bit, but faith remains strong. And so I was as we were thinking about this and talking about this today. I was thinking if eight or more out of 10 people that I interact with at the grocery store, at work, at school, in my neighborhood, believe in a higher power in God and have faith, then why aren't we talking about it more? Right? Why are not we not incorporating it more into all these different things that we do in our life. And the reason I want us to talk about it more is because of some of the research that have been has been done around trauma, which is our area, and how having faith can help you and be a positive thing for people that have experienced trauma.
Yes, I love the question of why aren't we talking about it more, and I love the Gallup poll, that is so fascinating. Yeah, all four of us have recently moved to the Midwest. And one of the things that's so striking to me about it here, and you and Tony lived in Rogers, Arkansas for years, too, so you're familiar with it. But is the concept that people have, it's actually not the concept, it's the familiarity and the everyday conversations they have about their concept of a higher power. And it's just, it's just everywhere here. And I love it, because it's, it's not steeped in religion, but it's steeped in belief. And I think that with as many people, as we have who've had religious trauma, it is a very important distinction to make, that there is a difference between religion and and faith or religion and a spiritual belief and a higher power.
Right, exactly. And even though some statistics are showing, some people are not as actively participating in an organized religion, they still believe. And these people are also many of them are engaging in spiritual practices and still having spiritual experiences. And that's, that's really important to think about. And it just makes me want to go talk to all my neighbors, and you know, in our regular conversations, and bring things up and see what they're experiencing, and how they are experiencing spirituality and faith and what what is their faith in?
I think that would be such a fascinating conversation.
Yes, I was kind of thinking Lena that, you know, some people when they go through trauma, they can have either a positive or negative reaction to, to faith into their faith that they felt they had before. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I've, I've really been struck by that it started early on in my life, actually, for for whatever reason, people have always talked to me. And I can remember being a teenager and having people say to me, things like, Well, I don't understand how there can be a god if a god can allow these kinds of things to happen. And so I am thinking that that's probably an age old question that people struggle with. There's a book written, I think, in the 70s, or 80s, called when bad things happen to good people, I can't remember the author, but I remember reading it decades ago. And people do tend to have a response that is either I can't believe or have any kind of association with faith, because this higher power allowed this horrible thing to happen. And then on the other hand, we have some people who are able to state that I made it through this and I'm finding a way to healing through my concept of a higher power and through my my faith tradition. And I think what's really important is to think about it without judging. And that's something that we really, really emphasize in our program, the whole help flow is to notice whatever's happening without judgment. And when we can notice what our thoughts are, without judging them, then we go into the place of more of a curious observer of our thoughts. And it can help us sort through some of our conflicting or dichotomous thinking, the brain hates this, this both and kind of thing. But it's very common for us and so learning how to sort through it can be valuable.
Right, like I'm thinking how the the center, the Veterans Affairs has, what they call the Center for PTSD. And in that they have some articles regarding spirituality and they We'll say that, you know, having a traumatic experience might affect people to go into depression, or feel abandoned or law, like I was abandoned by my higher powers abandoned by God, they lose their faith. And they wonder why. And their research shows that people that stay in those thought patterns are less likely to recover from trauma, or their trauma. Symptoms, residual symptoms from their trauma will last a lot longer. And they don't have as many positive outcomes. But what I love about what they have published is that they said that people that do have faith, they might, one if they have a spiritual community, or a faith community, then they have that social support. And they are more likely to forgive themselves and forgive others, and that they really highlight forgiveness as a powerful tool to move forward from trauma. And so people of faith are more likely to forgive. They also talk about people with faith tend to do more meaning making, you know, what I'm talking about when they make meaning out of their experience that the well this, maybe this happened for a reason? Or what can what is, what is it that I need to learn or gain from this experience. And some we can't say that there's really anything positive to gain. But, but at least, they feel like there's they have faith that there's a plan or that there's that God still cares about them, or the universe is still aware of them. And I think that's really important. And then just a couple of other things that they talked about in there, the Veteran Affairs talk about is that people that engage in the people that feel that they're isolated, or lonely stop, like, for example, with grief, if they feel there's a spiritual power there, and they have faith in that, then they they stop feeling lonely, and they start feeling abandoned. And the most interesting thing that I think is awesome, because of the program that we do, is that faith causes people to seek out spiritual experiences, and engage in practices that involve the body and mind. And we talk about somatic practices and poly vagal processes and those kinds of things in our program, and how that helps people calm their mind. So people might pray or meditate, or do those kinds of things that can help them feel it catalyzes the healing process.
Oh, that's great. And, and for those of you listening, who find this a very difficult topic, see if you can notice that it's difficult for you without judging it. This is really tricky. There are some really terrible things that happen in this world. A lot of it is because some people make choices that affect the rest of us. And I don't believe that a higher power has any hand in making things awful for us. And I, I remember years ago, talking to somebody about how, when difficult and traumatic things happen, it's so easy to pull away from a sense of a higher power. And that is actually when I have found that I need it the most. But that doesn't mean it's easy for me to be open to that connection. And it's it's very normal to have strong feelings and have a lot of thoughts about things that have happened to us. And when you were talking about the meaning making, that's vitally important, but it happens in its own timeline for each of us. And so in the work that I've done with people I've never, never, ever once have I said, Well, you need to move on. I've never once said that. I've never once said, Well, you need to forgive. Because I personally think that that's bullcrap that when terrible things happen, we lose our sovereignty and forgiveness is about sovereignty. And if somebody outside of you is telling you to forgive, then it's no longer an act of free will. And and that is vitally important. And you talked about forgiving ourselves. You know, one thing that I've always struggled with is, is that harsh inner critic and a sense that I should know better or be perfect or do better and Being in a place where I can say to myself, hmm, given the circumstances, it might make sense that I XYZ, given the fact that I grew up in a household that had dry drunk dynamics, and I have multigenerational alcoholism in my background, it makes sense that I have a lot of black and white thinking and that my expectations are really high of myself. And so being able to be okay with where you are, and be okay with where your loved ones are. That's another thing I see that's very difficult for people is when someone they love has been deeply wounded or hurt by a traumatic event. We just want them to feel better. And so instead of engaging with them from a place of empathy, we try to cajole them along or force them to try to heal faster, or move through it faster. And that never works. Ever. Nobody ever got better faster, because someone told them they should. Right, ever. And so if I think about how I learned to be more flexible in my thinking about a higher power that happened in my early 20s, when Amy went into rehab, and the family got involved in Al Anon, that was a very valuable experience for me, because I had a very rigid mindset of what my higher power was. And because of my anxiety, and the way I grew up, it was kind of scary, my higher power was scary, and learning how to be more flexible. And I guess to put into place this idea that the higher power, my higher power can be loving, and is always, you know, cheering me on and helping me that became profoundly helpful as I continued my own healing journey from the trauma of growing up in my household.
That makes me think a little bit later about when I had gone to college. After my first year, I ended up having some friction with my family, and was cut out of communication with my parents and not invited home for a period of time. And that was a really challenge to my face. And it felt pretty traumatic. And, but I did turn to prayer. And I turned to exploring God and scriptures and looking through those things for the hopes of faith. And as I did that, I started experiencing people being placed in my life to help me along my journey, like the landlord at my apartment complex sort of helped me and nurtured me a little bit and would offered me a job. And the people in my community would, all of a sudden, I would have whatever resource needed, or they would ask me if I needed help. And I have some random family come in the community, I was going to school that I started interacting with through the university, come and talk to me and say, I don't normally do this. But I just feel like, I want to offer you some kind of help. And so I became connected with that family. And it was really helpful to me, because in a situation that I felt abandoned and felt that I didn't have anyone on my side at the time, I did receive, I was not alone. And I did receive, they gave me faith that there that I was being watched out for him that I was not alone.
And that's wonderful that you were in a place that you could notice that kind of thing. Because I think it happens far more often than we realize our brain just is not primed to notice it. Yeah. And I think that's wonderful that in that very difficult time period. You it was brought into your conscious awareness that you are not alone, and that there were people being placed in your life that could be of service and could kind of hold you in this difficult time. That's lovely. It was awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We're glad Wendy that you're able to be with us. Thanks for your help and participation. We look forward to being with you and our upcoming episodes. We have some great episodes coming up. And as always, if you're interested in what we've talked about today, please look us up at www dot mending trauma.com Take care everybody.
Bye. Thank you for listening to the universe's your therapist this week. If you have any questions or looking for more information, you can find us at mending trauma on Instagram, as well as mending trauma.com Our website and if you're enjoying our content, we'd love it if you could rate review and subscribe to the show. We'll see you all next week.
