Why Alerts Should Be Your Next Audience Investment

6:15PM Oct 14, 2021

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Yes, hi. Hello. Wow, there's so much louder than I expected. Good afternoon, is surreal to be standing up here. This is my first time ever, presenting an open a conference, this is exciting, in many many ways and it's so nice to see you all. Thank you for coming. So, today we will be presenting on a basic overview about push alerts, why you should be using them as we move into q&a Feel free to ask us, even bigger, larger questions. I am joined by two spectacular alerts curators and I'm going to turn it over now to Ashley to introduce us.

Hello. At CNET and then we have Nicole Hernandez, who is a engagement editor at NPR, um, can you guys please give them a round of applause. I really appreciate them for taking the time out to sit on this panel with me.

Thank you. So we're going to get started. So first things first, alerts, push, push alerts are a type of pop up notification or a pop up message that comes on your device, a typical place where you can see, push alerts, it would be on your phone, on your mobile device on your Apple Watch on your desktop computer, those are typically the places that you see push loads, and the main goal for push alerts, is to be able to direct the audience back to your website back to your app with the, with the intention of, you know, having them become a loyal user or having them engaged with your, your news or your product more often. And so one of the biggest things that is, that's important when you're pushing alerts, is to be able to be sorry I actually just

one second, we're having a technical difficulty seeing the presentation here. Could you tell me again P, what was that, actually, if it's possible for you to screen share the presentation. Okay,

I'm so sorry.

I apologize miscommunication.

One second. Thank you. I can't explain sure it's disable some most.

This is why we do alerts not live television was just thinking that it shouldn't be enabled. Now, if you could tell, if you could try again, Ashley.

Can you see now.

Yay.

Okay, so we'll start over hi everybody my name is Ashley. This is Caitlin, that's Nicole and we're talking about why pushy late should be your next newsroom investment outside of social media. This is what we look like. This is where you can find us. This is where we work. We've already gone through this. In this is what a push alert is so it is a pop up message that pops up on a user's device, it's usually on your phone, on your wearable or your computer desktop. The main goal of push alerts is to be able to drive the user back to your website or your app. And we use that with different messages and different practices and we're going to explain to you what our different practices look like and how we do that. So this is a quote by NOAA by NOAA and he is the head of search and learning and intelligence at Slack and it says, a great push alert is three things, timely, personal and actionable, and that's just the meat and potatoes of how push lists work. Those are the three things that you need to have when you're thinking about your push alert when you're thinking about deciding if you should push an alert, or if you should save this for another time. This is also how we decide what to say and how to say it and how to engage with our audience. When we're deciding what to say for push alerts or notifications, and so on the next slide we have some really cool acronym that we came up with to kind of break down the different type of alerts that you may see. And so we just want to have a beer with you all. And so some of the examples we have are from the Wall Street Journal BuzzFeed wired and Apple new Apple TV plus. So as you see there are different occasions for when you would use a push alert, breaking news is probably when all of you would be interested in using a push alert, but there are other times where you can push evergreen content educational content and reminders that some people may not forget. And those are things that we don't want to, we don't want to shy away from or we don't want to forget about because those are attention grabbers and those are things that drive us to drive users back to our website. Personally, my favorite one is the BuzzFeed one just because I know it doesn't really seem evergreen and it doesn't really say what the quizzes are about. But this, this was sent out in the peak of the pandemic when everybody was on their computers and on zoom all day, so it really caught my attention because of the fact that it's something that you wouldn't expect to pop up on your screens, you're like, what's this. And as you all know we had a Facebook outage recently so the wired push alert it's another good one because of the fact that, you know, Facebook, people are a little concerned about the security and with the outage people just don't know so it may be another time to say hey you know, here's why it may be good to delete your Facebook or any account that fate that you may have that is attached to Facebook, and I know a lot of people like Ted LaSalle so when the new season drops, I'm sure you want to watch it before you bump into any spoilers, before you see anything, where anyone else, I'm sure, Apple TV if you set up your notifications on there, they will obviously send you a push alert, and we all seen this story about breaking news with the Las Vegas Raiders coach. This is probably a story that as it updates we probably will get more breaking news alerts from different platforms, maybe not, maybe not the Wall Street Journal, but other outlets as well.

So how do we test or how do we gauge the data, the, how do we gauge meaningful metrics with family so the average person in the US gives you about 46 Pushing push notifications a day. And so you want to stand out, you want to be able to say, we're the one that you should be reaching out to for x y and z is a type of news. So the way that we decide, is this an investment is by the subscribers by checking the site engagement so we're looking at pageviews visits uniques video views, those are like, number one, or they're they're a top priority for alerts, and then the second one is the subscribers are we growing our subscribers at a steady rate, are we noticing during time during certain times of the year are we seeing spike for users are we seeing spikes for opt outs for users. And then lastly the open rate the open rate is defined as the number, the, the percentage of people that have opened and push alert that you have sent out. So those are the three ways that we decide and those are just the main ways. Overall, other people may decide on other things, or they may have other metrics but these are just the basic general metrics that we use. And then, now we're gonna open it up to some questions and answer questions and we have some answers for you. So, if anyone has a, I know I kind of ran through that really quickly, but I wanted this panel to really focus on like being able to ask those questions that you all have so,

you know, actually, first Ashley, I have some questions for you and Nicole, if that's okay.

Yeah, that works.

So, um, Nicole, I just wondered if you could please tell me a little bit about your background, how long you've been sending alerts and what part of your day to day that kind of takes up.

So I have been sending alerts in some form or fashion to mobile devices, pretty much the entirety of my career, even back in Jacksonville, at the Florida Times Union I it was, we had both an app that we had. I'm sorry we had an app device if I remember correctly, but really primarily back then it was text, actually. So, if anyone can remember when there were a lot of text alerts that were going out. And those services still exist, by the way, in some newsrooms. I'm thinking specifically of Texas Tribune, for example, especially in moments of weather disaster and using that information to get, How can we help. Here's how to contact authorities for assistance for day to day, it is constantly on my mind, which stories, could we do, which stories, do we need to be on the lookout in terms of breaking news, which stories, you know, going back to the beer example would be educational or give people a break, especially for weekends, you know, what are some opportunities to remind them, hey that title so that Apple TV plus alerted you about we've got to recap, if you are game to. If your game to go down that rabbit hole with us, spoilers ahead, so those are some of the things that are going on with me right now and alerts real quick.

That is such a good question, segue into my next question of how many alerts, do you think those of you subscribed to, how many alerts, do you think you get in a day. And do you think that's too many do you think it helps you.

I think I get like less than the 46 average I think I may we get about like 2025 just because like I'm looking at what other people are saying and then also there's other there's other platforms where they have automatic alerts, and I've like subscribed to everybody, cuz I want to see what everybody's saying, so like, CNBC I kind of get those updates about the stocks, more often, and so I don't mind those but I'm not really interested in this talk, but I just want to see like what they're saying and some of those, those other type of languages that they're using.

Ah, I would say, I would say that I receive. Probably close closer to 100 alerts like per day. In terms of news outlets, I'm subscribed to alerts from about 25 news outlets on my primary device. And I'm including in that number as well notification, like, everything that goes into the notification tray in terms of SMS messages of some type, WhatsApp or regular text bank notifications calendar reminders. And I think that's part of my calculus too in terms of wanting to make sure I send out, because with push alerts you're competing not just against, you know, other newsrooms. People's lives are on their phones so it's, they may have it set up that they want to get notifications about, you know, from Twitter. Twitter now has push notifications enabled for various terms or for accounts that you want to follow,

no absolutely no shame, I easily get 100 just news that doesn't even include slack or anything so

I am constantly charging my phone. Let's just say, Yes, or you

recharge my phone, it's usually dead or dead, so your benefit,

such as the life of an alerts curator, but when you're thinking about all of those alerts that somebody else gets but all of that extra noise people have in their life. Sorry to refer to text and slack as noise but how do you choose what to prioritize how do you go through and say, out of that beer model, even within a breaking news situation which story am I prioritizing which day to day activity, are you looking at,

I think for me, I, I've taken the time to learn my audience I've taken the time to look at the data and the numbers and the analytics behind my audience, so I do it based off, just different metrics so my metrics may be different from the calls. I don't know for me, time of day is a big important metric for me. When I'm deciding for breaking news it's just more of a like, whenever we're whenever time, it comes in we're pushing it immediately and then we'll go from there with pushing out the regular daily stuff, but most of the time my list I scheduled, we have different platforms that we send stuff to at CNET, and so like the smart home people may not like what Google people may have, but there may be some intersection when it comes to like a Google Home device or a smart speaker in that sense, or with Apple. People who like Apple, Apple products or Apple or let me not fully care about some things that Google may have or some products you may have one event that Google may have. So it's all about knowing your audience and it's about taking the time to spend the spend time with the numbers and the data, and then also within your English platforms there's ways for you to communicate with your audience with different multimedia elements like buttons that can tell you like, Oh I like this or I don't like this or send me more of this or don't send me more of this, there's ways for you to connect with the audience without having to say like hey, do this for me, or hey, I'm trying to get your attention do that. So just prioritizing some of those different things and trying to decide how I push the light is all based on the user and the app.

Yeah, very similarly in terms of weighing, how to prioritize what it is that we are deciding to to send a notification on spending a lot of time, taking a look at audience behavior, coordinating with our audience insights team to keep an eye on trends and things like that and seasonal periodic analyses to because things change over time. At the start of the pandemic, for example, anything and everything about COVID We're trying to figure out what this is. Strong audience and trust another. Another aspect that we look at is how is the story resonating with audiences on other platforms, outside of notification spaces. So if we're seeing a lot of interest in conversation for example on Facebook, that sort of a, kind of like a light to us light goes off to us of like, okay, let's talk about you know like, do we think that this makes sense for an alert and like what kind of language, how to, like, how do we go from there.

I think for me, I know, like you sell using Facebook I think for me homepage is more of a place where I take that time to see like if it's doing well for isn't doing well I think that's a big indicator for like the CNET audience just because a majority of our subscribers, do go back to web. So eventually they will end up like wanting to see like what the homepage look like and what other type of info they can get based off this one I like it so, um, like she said, there's other platforms that you can use to make that decision informed decision on when should you push this or if she's you should push this.

I mean, I got multiple alerts this week with red flag emojis to know you know. And so speaking of different audiences, do you send all of your lawyers to your entire audience. I know the answer for you, Ashley, so let's start with Nicole, or do you segment your audience with specific topics and things like that.

So right now we are working toward a different app experience, and that is an avenue that we're exploring about what would topic segmentation look like for us, NPR is also looking at the member station network. So I would just simply say that's a constant conversation right now with us of not even just like topic by topic, but also how can we elevate our member station content, as well.

for CNET we actually segment our audience so we have about. We have one section that goes out to all users and then we have about, 11 different platforms, 11 different segments for audiences, and those range from like Apple, Google mobile smart home how to add a few in culture like a few other things and we also have a car's derivative so we have a lot of different sections that we send alerts to, and with us curating that it's just one of those things where sometimes we may see higher open rates on some more of the segmented stuff that we see, I sending it out to all users we try to use the our users, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, so we don't overwhelm people, and the main goal with that is, we just want to target people in their interests because when you target people for their interests, they tend to trust you and they want to come back for more information when stuff like COVID or there's a development for those type of things, they'll, they'll want to trust you and want to go there to you for that information.

Absolutely. In the interest of time I think we could move on to the exercise if you'd like Ashley to share that. Okay. And then we'll absolutely after this open it up for questions from the audience or from online.

So, hope can you guys still see my screen right.

Yeah. Is it possible to just focus on her. We can see it if you'd like to start explaining actually.

Okay, so

pay for your alert in the chat box or if you're in there you can just like write it out and then say it, I guess when you walk up to the mic.

The idea being that alerts are a muscle, they are not tweets, they are not the exact same thing that you're going to text your friend thread, they are short, to the point, and this is just you know thinking about best practices, which Ashley will run down for shortly as well. A way to start thinking about how to craft those, if that's not something you already do in your day to day, each of these if you can't read the yellow font as well I know it's really hard in here, the breaking news is en.pr slash beer one, and it is case sensitive, the following three are cnet.co, slash, beer, two, three or four, and they all follow that same evergreen educational reminders. Again, this is really just something really fun and just meant to be, like, Three minutes.

Okay, if we include the time I was shadowboxing, that was about two minutes. Um, is there, are there any comments online or anybody who would like to share in person, anyone that they wrote or what they found difficult about this muscle to flex. And if not, then I'm gonna have Ashley, move on to sharing like some do's and don'ts and Nicole with her with some best practices that we have found at our brands. Yes. Oh, we have a mic for you though. I can talk really loud.

Oh, oh can you say which one you chose before you read out your alert to.

So, um, I actually have a question. So the thing that I got stuck on was what differentiates the language from the push alert from like a headline or a tweet because I basically just naturally want to regurgitate something that I would do for that so I would welcome some tips you might have.

Absolutely. I think Nicole you had a really good point, the other day about how to differentiate from headline and types of CTAs to include.

Yeah, so something, we have noticed over time is that. So, putting some saying, for example, watch. Biden is speaking on supply chains, the supply chain issue. I putting the watch at the beginning, in the alert seems to actually have, it's having a suppressive effect in terms of your click through rate is something that we've noticed. And so, again, this kind of goes back to like know your audience and you know keep looking at the data, because that's not, we, we were pretty surprised, because that seems counterintuitive right you know like what we're signaling like what, what you can expect when you opt in, kind of the, the thinking there is that audience, at least our subscribers they just want to know as quickly as possible, you know, in those situations like, what, what is the end, what's the, what's the meat, what's the focus or in a breaking news situation like, What is the news and then you can tell us you know like, oh this is going to, you know, there's a watch experience or listen experience. And again, just going back to data and experimenting. It's something that makes for other projects that we're going to have in the works, maybe that's something that we play with just to see like, well actually, you know, keeping an eye on further engagement, even if it maybe has a suppressive effect in terms of like news, maybe for certain projects, though it does keep them engaged with that particular series or event that we have going on. So,

when you're crafting headlines for stories. I think most of us craft, not just one but probably a handful a few, and it's in our experience less about regurgitating that headline and more finding a new way to present that to your audience. So, for example like be how to watch the MLB super straightforward, right, like how to watch, MLB playoffs, here's what you would say, but finding that timely, relevant hook so for example if you were sending that today, you would have to read something like, Go Giants. Here's how to watch the game without live television or something like that, not to show my bias or anything.

The other thing I would say to you is most devices, especially mobile devices have some level of preview or the user is able to preview, and they will include the headline on the story. In most situations so there's sort of a doubling up that can happen,

especially Apple news, right so you can write a completely different alert when that user force touches, they'll see the headline, and part of your deck, so that is really important to remember.

Does anyone else have one that they want to share or can I just go into the best practice,

I think we have another question real quick in person. Awesome.

Oh yay. Okay, so I took the first one and I can't see it, so I can't read it but this is what I wrote to directly speak to people who maybe did get the j&j vaccine, like myself and are concerned because there's a lot of coverage about Pfizer and Madonna and it's like okay, well, what about the few of us that got j&j So I rewrote it as, Are you one of the 14 million people in the US who got the j&j vaccine. A Mardana or Pfizer booster could better protect you study says, and I would click into that because I'm like, That's me, I need to read this so I think directly targeting the audience in the front is something we don't do a lot of but might consider doing.

Absolutely and it goes back to what Nicole was saying about what works best for your site is having that CTA or that call out of, Hey, you there I'm talking to you. Does that work for you. If you know it does sure try it, test it, that's one of the best benefits as Ashley is going to move on and talk about is AV testing, you can deal with alerts just the same as you can with headlines and images and things like that.

The thing I love the most about this alert, I'm a big numbers person like I, when there's a number I'm like okay let me see what's going on. And the fact that she put Are you the one in whatever the number was, I love that because people want to see facts people want to see data. For me personally, I've seen it when our, our content has numbers in it. Any type of statistic or just any type of like price or discount or something like that, those tend to do a little bit better than some of the ones that don't have any numbers or any type of type of statistic where economic value attached to it. So I think it's, we can go into like the best practices. Now, and so here's genuinely, what I like the do's and don'ts of the best practices for alerts. You definitely want to keep it personalized, you definitely want to keep the text short, I've found that when I use shorter texts, it like when you try to cram all the information into something really short. People tend to click on it more because they can see the whole thing. And then, another another situation is also like, for me personally, I have to push web alerts, and mobile alerts. So with the web alerts people have their like map book settings or they have their settings set for different text sizes based on their preference. So if you have a shorter texts, the chances of them seeing the whole thing, when it's shorter is a lot higher for that. So for my web alerts, I like to keep those a lot shorter. And then for the, for the mobile alerts, I can, you know, have a little bit more wiggle room with the language and added more, more details, AV testing so for those of you who don't know, AV testing is when you test two different like you do a versus basically what the loads in the computer will send it out to half of the audience for the a and half of the audience or B, and some of the typical AV testing that I've done, is testing media, and then testing out language so I'm leading with like a negative versus leaving with a positive when we're reviewing products, leading with a number versus leaving work without a number or debating what kind of numbers so on the product pricing versus Oh with the product as a sale the percentage off of the pricing. And then, more recently, like a B testing different types of different types of content. So for one of our cars derivative we have one about like the cars and the pricing of the cars how the average price of the cars has gone up to $45,000 versus the cars that are more likely to get stolen or get get broken into. So testing out to see like what kind of which content would do a little bit more better. And then really knowing your users, knowing what when they're interested in what they're interested in. I know for my users we have a lot of people who are interested in wellness. And so because we know we have a lot of people interested in wellness on the specific interest side, because we know they're interested in that when we have things like Apple Watch that our Apple users may not be interested in, we know that we can push something like that to our fitness users because they want to stay fit, and this is, this is a device that can help them do that. And then also checking the timing, making sure that you know what time is the best to send. I know for CNET we send out a alert to all users in the morning and an afternoon because we've seen, that's where we get the best chat traffic, but then also within your specific interests, or, or just segmented audiences, you can tell which you can be able to see like what timing works and not all time was gonna work throughout every time of the year so that's just something to keep in mind for the do's, for the don'ts. You don't want to overwhelm your audience so you don't want to send too many push lists, because, yes, people want stuff about COVID But people have started to get exhausted about COVID So we don't I don't send as many alerts about COVID To all my audience, I try to segment off to people who are more interested more segmented, and then you don't want to push at odd hours like I see an alert the other day you know like at one o'clock in the morning, I'm going to assume it was kind of based on the West Coast users are more dedicated to the West Coast users, but you don't want to push it like in the middle of the night or overnight, unless it's like somebody died, somebody dies. If somebody dies, you push it right then and there I think. When

it's relevant for your audience right if you know that your audience is most active, obviously you have that data and you're best positioned to make that decision but yet no one likes getting woken up in the middle of the night for something that's not imperative.

Yeah, I know for me the biggest one that I remember was when Black Panther died, I was like, what, that's something where you're like, Stop the presses like what's going to happen I mean Siena has a lot of Marvel fans but there are other people in the world who also like, like Black Panther was a big movie so people wouldn't want to know what happens when it did happen. And then the last thing is repetition. Um, and when I mean revenue you don't want to use the same exact language that you used before, like I know sometimes we have like quotas to meet, and we have to push out certain content for packages or deals or brands or stuff like that, but you don't want to use the same language, if you are going to push it again and then if you if it didn't do well, then there's no reason to like push the game or because you don't want to overwhelm your audience and you don't want to aggravate them for something that they clearly showed you, it's not working. But there are times where like you can try again with mixing up language, like if you did, if you use something that didn't have like numbers or some other type of information and and maybe try a different angle or try looking at it from a different aspect to be able to maybe bring, bring your audience in more, but if it doesn't work just don't bother or find another place for it. That's also another option. So in

your own AV test run your own AV test on a different day or time or things like that, yeah.

That's something you would say about the, about these do's and don'ts list is, you know, ultimately it's going to circle back to knowing and understanding your audience that the subscribers and knowing and understanding the audience you're trying to grow into. And knowing what your content is knowing, you know, knowing who you are as a as a news as a newsroom as a news brand, and wanting to have that trusting relationship with the audience

with I think about 10 minutes left or so are there any other questions we can answer from the room or from online or anything. Yes, there's a mic coming to you for the online contingent.

Have you seen much change because of, you know all the changes that happened around iOS 15 and like you know kind of the the push from like the apps themselves to limit notifications being shown to users.

iOS 15 is interesting I think it really mostly affects, emails, as many people know that open rate is useless now. But for notifications really the biggest impact will be has maybe then focus time right so where people can kind of limit the things that they're seeing. However, this is one of the slowest adoption years ever of an iOS upgrade. I think it's still under 50% of users have moved on to 15. So, I don't know that anything we've seen so far, we can't really say, we directly attribute this to iOS or this is the impact it's had exactly, mostly because there's just not there, it's just not like it wasn't in past years, it is something we're monitoring of course and at CNET we're really lucky that we segment our alerts by each of the platforms, web, Android and iOS. We do have an Android and iOS app so like that does make a difference. We have seen a decline in those open rates, so it very well could be part of focus, but unfortunately there's no way for us to see that definitively, It's something we're aware of, but hardly to give a flat answer. Oh, there's one on mine, let's go here real quick. Okay, here's,

here's a three part question. Okay, how many, how many alerts is too many. What experiments have you done to find out is too many, And what tools do you use to segment your audience. Oh that's a good question.

I mean, would you like to take it, actually.

Um, I'm not gonna lie, you probably gonna have to I'm gonna do it, part by part but I may forget the second one, I know the first one you said, how many alerts is too many. So for me, because I have segments, I like to send one alert per segment for a date per day, but some segments may not get an alert, and I just, for me, not overwhelming my audience is the biggest thing because if you overwhelm them they will unsubscribe. And so if I don't have a piece of content that I feel like my audience will like or I feel like we'll do well. I will push it back, I'm not prioritizing pushing alerts all day every day maybe when I first started, but now we're learning my audience that's overwhelming for them so I don't want to send too many so like I said we have a we have 12 different segments with all users being included in that 12 And so for our 11 segments I would say maybe about like at max nine will get a push alert, like, it pushes a day, but that's taking in consideration like high peak season so CNET covers things like CES, or Amazon Prime Day or Black Friday so there are deals that will be segmented for every single every single segment, those will get pushes because those are things that I know my audience wants. And this is the season when they want it, because people are doing holiday shopping, or people are doing online shopping. So, that's the answer to part one. I don't remember what Part Two was

part two was how we discovered that correct and I can, I can take this one actually because we have actually been running alerts since 2016 I believe on CNET, and we are lucky enough to work with a vendor who has, You know, pulled all that information for us and we found that our audience likes or responds best to let's say one alert every 18 hours. So from that we can extrapolate that to is probably the best limit for us. Most days, we test that like Ashley said in different ways and we tried that out numerous ways my manual way is we take a look at those open rates, you can map your open rates if you're gathering all that data over time, over date over day of the week even and you can find maybe Mondays at 8am Pacific is the best time for you to send, regardless of what your actual on site audiences. Perhaps they're responding most to those alerts, and that is how I would suggest you find that is using the open rate of each of those to figure out, not pageviews not visits, nothing like that but actual how many people are clicking that alert. And then part three.

Yeah, what was part three.

Oh, segmenting tools, how do we segment. We use airship, as our vendor for sending alerts and we have actually built into our CMS, some collections tags and topics, which we can have people explicitly opt into, as well as implicitly be opted into when they're finishing an article or scrolling through pages.

Just what do you what's the biggest value to doing this I obviously connecting with audiences important. But ultimately, you're collecting first party data, you're understanding who those people are. And you have a direct line for potentially e commerce like these are things that don't exist with Twitter, like you don't make any money on Twitter, it's a nice vanity metric. This is a way that you've got a direct relationship with your audience. How do you guys use it to do more than just keep people informed.

So something we've seen is that alerts are a way to just, They also serve the purpose of reminding people we're, we're here. You know, these are the things that we're covering. You know, this is the this is who we are as a news as a news brand. And you've definitely seen where alerts can also help encourage people to actually use the app further. You know, so, so even if they open a story, and that was maybe their first time that day, but then they're like, oh, I want to see other things, or I want actually, I've been meaning to check up on you know, just what's going on in this in the world of science so like let me go check out what's happening there, there's a topic. So it's, it's habit building, in that sense. And with your own personal brand when it comes to the core app with third party platforms like Apple news, something I really like to remind myself with that in particular is, it's helping to build. It's almost in a way like the handshake, so to speak with audiences who are familiar with Apple and its products but may not be as familiar with NPR itself, so it's like trying to just like start building that relationship and then help bring them down further down the funnel. So that potentially they're signing up for our newsletters, they're following our reporters they download our app, they, themselves, to check it out even more. Like, guys.

I was gonna say, I feel like, you still want answered your own question when you say that Twitter and all these other places don't offer this service, I think we all saw that when that Facebook outage happened last week, there is a need to have a space for your audience that is outside of these platforms that you have the option to curate and control, or just push to we're not saying that you have to go get a whole app but there is ways for you to integrate push alerts to through your website to get people to come back to get people to be loyal subscribers to get people to you know, opt in and purchase things through your anchor links and stuff like that. So I think you somewhat answered your question when you said that some of these other platforms don't offer what pushers offer and at the end of the day you want to have a place for your audience to go to, no matter what happens, no matter what shuts down, you want to have a place that you can have for your audience and they know that they can count on me for the information

on the back of what Nicole said, it really does come down to as well you're crafting a loyal audience. So, in panel this morning about knowing your Northstar metric and what's really driving your brand. If that's loyalty, this is a huge driver for that is a huge way to say not just Hi, here we are, here's what we're doing, but also creating those return visitors like Ashley said, our alerts audience at CNET very closely aligns with our homepage audience because those are the people who want all of that information. So, always, always good to keep those people returning.

I haven't worked with, like, I don't work with us back so I just, we like I think so much of this comes down to closing the gap between a user and they become a fan.

Yeah, I'm so sorry I think Ashley and I couldn't hear

right there's no mic I was gonna repeat, just saying that it really comes down to creating that relationship with a reader, and with your audience and knowing them agree, obviously we do. Thank you all so very much. That is our time, really, really appreciate you all being here. Thank you.