Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits like First Tee of greater Akron, and nonprofit empowering kids and teens through the game of golf.
After just one year with Bloomerang, they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship and raise more funds to listen to the full interview of First Tee of greater Akron visit bloomerang.com/we are for good, or click the link in our show notes. Hey, I'm John.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, the day is here.
Happy Friday, everybody. Are you ready for a new series? Because we are going deep into a new series today. Are you ready? John? I
love this series because it happened so organically. And it came up straight from the community like this is how this should work. You know, and so it is just a huge honor to kick it off today.
Yeah, we are diving into the funders mindset. And it's, we had people in the community that came to us and said, guys, it's really time to kind of reimagine the funder nonprofit relationship. So we wanted to put a flag in the ground and talk about how do we evolve these relationships? How do we evolve the processes? How do we make the grantee funder relationship as symbiotic and empowering and simple for everyone involved? We're going to be exploring who's doing it well, what's holding us back, and how we can collectively move forward in a way that moves funding more quickly to the front lines without so much undue burden on the back end. And we just realized that having a broader conversation about this can fuel a bigger Impact Uprising. So you know, we had to bring the big guns to conversation number one, right. So I want to introduce our incredible guests. She is a pillar of the funder community, especially in the modern era and the evolution of the funder community. Hilary Fulton is founder of hopeful consulting, and we met her in our community, maybe a year and a half ago. And when Hillary speaks, there's something that happens to us when she talks about her vision for the future of the way that grants and foundations and nonprofits can work together in a more harmonious fashion. That works for everybody. And it's really about recognizing the humanity on both sides of the aisle. So we are so excited that she is here today. Not only is she a founder and a principal, but she was nearly for two decades at one of the country's largest health care funders, the Colorado Health Foundation, she was there as a senior program officer where she was developing community engagement and funding strategies around a host of issues like youth resiliency, early childhood, social and emotional development and primary care. And the thing that we love so much about her is this work really required her managing cross functional teams in the areas of design, implementation and adapting strategy. And she brought the humanity to that she reimagined that work and figured out how to integrate community and guaranteed voice into that strategy development. So we are so glad that she is here. Because her work supports funders and community based groups to have this greater impact. By aligning their values with practice, mobilizing resources, and advancing wellbeing across the sector. I think we can all cheer that we all want that. So Hillary Fulton from Colorado, get in this house and come teach us.
Hi, friends. Thank you for having me.
So glad that you're finally here. You know, you have been such a sweet supporter of the podcast of the community for a long time. And we want our listeners to like get to know you. So give us the Hillary backstory. Tell us about where you grew up and why you have such a fire in your belly for this work.
Oh my word. Well, that's a longer story. But I will say I grew up on a campground in South Dakota, which is a story for another time. It's a very great way to begin a life. I've had the privilege of living in beautiful Colorado for now, gosh, nearly 20 years. It is definitely home and I had the huge honor and opportunity to work at a foundation that was always open to innovation and really yearning towards what are our values how to that show up in the field. And increasingly, like so many funders in recent years, really wrestling with issues of equity and inclusion and what we are charged to do as leaders in philanthropy in relationship with community. And so I think kind of moving through that. Through that experience, I had exposed to so many inspiring, creative thinkers that I needed to hop out and create a space where I could be there much more often. So I want to definitely start by just thanking you guys for putting some really big ideas front and center with the community, talking about mental health, talking about rest, talking about trust, those are things that are so foundational in creating more compassion between funders and nonprofit leaders. And I really believe help us have the space for creative the creativity and innovation that we need to do things differently. Oh,
my gosh, my hearts full and you're exactly spot on. I mean, I am so grateful for the way you've always recognized our humanity behind this movement and just poured into it at a different level to help us join in asking different questions, bigger questions. And so I just, I'm excited for the series, and honestly, have you here at the helm of it? Because we do get a lot of questions about like, how does, how do we even start in these conversations, and if you hanger on the podcast, you know, we always go back to values, whether we're talking about finding and aligning a new job, or maybe it's like creating a strategy that makes sense for your organization. And I think when we're talking about the funding relationship, this is where I don't know the hair stands up on my arms a little bit, it gets uncomfortable, because big money can be involved, you know, big power dynamics are involved. And it takes a lot of bravery to really live out your values in real time when you really need that funding at the same time. So I'd love to start, you know, just asking you advice for how do you begin to find value alignment with funders? And what does that, you know, what should that look like in today's world?
Yeah, thank you for that question. If you'll give me just a little space to like, lay down how I come to this issue. I had a really powerful experience in my last few years, working with the foundation where I worked, and already been a decade plus into being a program officer, probably around 2016. I just realized people were not okay, I was seeing a new level of burnout, giving up on things that I had not seen among nonprofit leaders. And it happened to coincide with the foundation taking on mental health as a strategy. And it was a chance for me to advocate for if we're doing mental health for community members, there is definitely a connection between the well being of our nonprofit leaders and staff and their ability to do their work. And so I got together with a group of amazing nonprofit leaders who were grantees. And we got to design together. I mean, we started just with asking, like, what does it What does wellbeing mean in the field, and it covers a lot of the things that you guys have talked about, the things that came up were, you know, I would say, like a small piece of the pie, I couldn't anticipate, like, we need to support people to have boundaries. And, you know, to take care of themselves take days off when, you know, make sure they know they can do that. We need to set policies that make sure they get good benefits, and we have flexible PTO, and all of those really important things. But then we also heard some things that I didn't expect to show up in the wellbeing conversation. And that was more about this community level of, Hey, I can't pay my employees an equitable salary. The way that funders are funding me right now limits my ability to offer good benefits. My morale is so low based on how I'm being treated by the funders I am approaching and working with. This weighs on me incredibly impacts my mental health. So I was receiving that feedback. And I just want to say that for me, coming to a place of values and practice alignment is at this level of kind of community care. Like we have to find the ways where we as human beings in the sector, funders and nonprofits alike, we actually share a lot of interests and values, we're trying to accomplish the same things. And we need to bring that kind of care and compassion and just awareness to the relationship and power dynamics that are there. So that's how I'm coming to it.
Here's why. I just love this conversation and you so much is that this is Reality, we are holistic, we are human beings. We're not transactional at the end of the day. We're not robots. Yeah. And you know, Becky has been on that soapbox of. We can't talk like corporate robots way before social media had all this emoji and stuff. Because it's the same idea of like, we're not robots. Yeah, we are complex. And the issues we're on the frontlines of, in a lot of these missions, create this vortex of just really difficult stuff to work through. And I love that you are hitting the nail straight on the head to begin with of like, it's a bigger conversation. It's not just about the money, but it's about what can open an unlock for the staff to. So
I also want to say, you already have changed the dynamic of this conversation by what you just lifted there. I think, even having the ability to have the conversation that honestly and that transparently with a funder and say, we're grateful for this funding, but here's some in some negative impact to this. This is how it's negatively impacting our work. And yes, we're hitting the impact metrics. But there's another cost to it. And there's a cost of, you know, to the human being at the end. And I think having a value a life partner allows you to have a conversation like that more easily. So you can say, how can we find a solution that works for both of us? How can we hit those impact numbers and still feel like we're valuing human beings? So I think this context is great, Hillary, and I'm here for this new revolution is simply even in the conversation. So yes, I would love to hear any response you have to that or to the nonprofit side?
Yeah. Well, um, I just would add one thing to that before I shift to like, you know, nonprofits what, what can you how can you begin finding values aligned funders? I think I would just say that I have been unable to pull apart the human impacts and well being and the ability to have an impact in the field. I don't think that there's two things, I think they're one thing. So I just wanted to clarify that I don't think people can be unwell and have the same impact that they would otherwise have, you know, I don't think you can power through to a place that is the same as where you could get if you were well and supported. So nonprofit listeners out there looking to find better values aligned to funders. Just a starting point. None of this is simple. And I'm not going to pretend that it is today. Okay. But one thing that I've been really encouraging nonprofits that I continue to be in relationship with, to do is think about with your team, what would an ideal funder relationship look like to you? Because I think we get so caught up in needing to find the funding to do the work. We actually, as nonprofit leaders haven't explored, like, what would that actually look like? What do I what do I need? And what do I want? And then looking at your own nonprofits, organizational values, and how would those play out and how you want to interact with funders. So you're just armed you have this like vision of what you want, and how it could be. And I feel like that is a really important starting important starting point. So you'll know it when you see it. And if you don't see it, you can name it them. So I'm going to try to throw in a few examples along the way today. So you guys have some amazing folks you can draw from. I'm talking with a nonprofit here in Colorado that is Latinx. Lead and serving, they mostly do mental health with immigrants, and they're incredible. They've done a lot of work to think about how they support mental health providers to unlearn things that are not beneficial to the community and relearn how to enter it in a really culturally supportive way. And now they're interested in how do they find the funders that can meet them there that can really operate in true partnership, and not be transactional? And naming kind of what does that look like to them? What are they asking of those funders? They're resisting a sense of urgency that so often they're they're saying, Oh, these funders want us to scale and we will, but it's going to take us two years. We're not going to do it tomorrow. And they're really examining their beliefs around power and privilege. And they will not be working with a funder who doesn't understand that all of their clients have power. What they don't have is the privilege and the society. And so like they are really trying to think about how do they bridge from what They know they need and find that in their funding partners.
Okay, I love that example. Because I've been sitting here thinking that if you need a starting place, I think the values is the greatest starting place. Because if you know who you are, you know what's important to your organization, you consistently talk about lift and illuminate your values in your work. This feels just like a natural conversation to say, you know, we really like this, you know, piece of the funding, but this piece just doesn't jive with who we are in terms of creating well being, you know, if well being as a part of one of your values. And I think it's such an easy conversation to say, you know, here's some things that don't quite sink, how can we work through them? And how does that feel for you as well, that I can tell you, I never had that conversation in 20 years of my fundraising career, I never felt I had the ability to have that conversation, because honestly, I don't think I knew our values. I knew our mission statement. I knew our vision statement, I knew our strategic goals, but I sure as heck didn't know what we stood for. So I do think that's a really important starting point.
I just also think about your stir in my heart of like, it's such a coming from scarcity, if you focus on just going back to the same people just because that's who we've traditionally worked with, as opposed to like having this abundance of like, there is a value aligned partner out there. And it's gonna make the whole process so much better. And what are we leaving off the table by not verbalizing that not putting that vision out there and not understanding what that would even look like? So that was really good, y'all, y'all are getting me pumped up over here.
Okay, so we've done some great focus on the nonprofit work. And we want to flip to the other side. And we want to talk about this entire concept from the funders perspective, and you worked as a Program Officer, Hillary for 17 years. Talk to us about your perspective and your thoughts as you navigated deciding where to invest in fund and I mean, tell us some of the surprises that nonprofit listeners could glean from all of your counsel and insight.
Yeah, well, thank you for that. I think that one of the things that I really experienced at different points was this when things were misaligned with the values in some way. So for example, I, I've been taking a look at different funders values recently. And they're pretty inspiring, bravery, creativity, innovation, and of course, equity and inclusion. And all of those things in so many others are just really inspiring to me to think about how does that show up? How does that play out through all aspects of how we do our work? So if you think about like, equity and inclusion, thankfully, so many funders are starting to think about how do we fund more organizations in this way? How do we get more investment into organizations led by in serving communities of color, for example, like this is a really good thing. And you can start to feel a rub that for me would really lead to some unrest and overtime, even sense of burnout, when that is not integrated throughout. So have you also thought about your operations as it relates to equity and inclusion? Not just where's the funding going? But have those communities been part of you redesigning your application process? Are you developing your strategy? And then even thinking about what does that mean for us internally, how our teams interact with one another? You know, I've been so privileged to get to know incredible young program staff from all different backgrounds. And they are bringing so much wisdom to the field right now. So many new ideas, so many really important questions. But as is the organization, really thinking about how to hear that, whether or not it comes to them delivered in a neat package, or the way that it's always been delivered? And I think like, funders really thinking about all those levels of how their values need to show up, gives us a lot of chance for opportunity. But to the question of what's happening on the inside, I think, you know, a couple of things came to mind for me. One is that program officers I know for myself, and for so many that I talked to feel the sense of not doing enough if they were to do more, if they were to you know, Wake up a little earlier, for a few more emails, if they were able to do XYZ, they would have a greater impact their own limitation is holding things back. And the weight of that can keep them in a cycle of being really exhausted, not connected to other people. And it's, ironically becomes counterproductive. The more nonprofit leaders I talk with, I know that there's some real parallels there. And again, it's just a chance to think about how are we really setting one another up for this kind of cycle of not being beneficial. And just recognizing, you know, we can't save the world alone. And let's try to figure out together how we can make this work a little bit better. Another thing that I was thinking about, in terms of what might be surprising to people from the outside, I had a handful of opportunities to really sit down with nonprofit leaders and and say, Guys, what do you think we should do? So one example was a process where we got education, nonprofits, we got school leaders, parents, young people, and I'm like, Okay, what should we do around advancing mental health in schools and doing it in an equitable way, and we got there, but it took a long time for them to realize, I actually did not have an agenda, there wasn't a secret answer that I had, that I just wanted them to perform and get to. So I just want nonprofits to know, a lot of times funders don't know what to do next. And when they ask, it's because they really think that the solution is going to be better, if you're, if you're partnering on it. And I think that's a shift that, you know, nonprofits have their doubts, for good reason. But a lot of the times, this is just funders are trying things in a new way. And trying to create that space to generate ideas together. Is is new, and, and it's authentic, when it happens.
Thanks for lifting the veil on that Hillary, it's giving me vibes, like in those like celebrity magazines, where they're like celebrities, they're just like, they go grocery shopping. And I'm like program officers. They're just like us, they have they struggle with wanting to do at all, try not having enough time. And it's, and I'm looking at this, you know, Tim from a 10,000 foot view, and I'm like, wait a minute, if this, this doesn't feel good to either one of us, then we need to meet in the middle. And we need to co build something that does feel good. And we need to somehow put on the shelf, these power dynamics that I felt as a gift officer saying that I didn't have the ability, or I didn't have the proximity or permission to go in because this individual seemingly held more power than I did. And I needed to toe the line and we don't overstep, and we don't overshare. And the reality is I'm hearing from you, like they do want to cobuild, they do want to get that feedback, they do want to know, what's causing harm. So I thank you just for lifting that and humanizing the program officer. At the end,
I was thinking the same thing. It's like we all need community in our work, and both sides of it are trying to figure that out and try to have the right conversation. So I think the more we can recognize that in each other, what a what a great way to move forward. So you know, we talk a lot about 1% shifts around here, because sometimes we know what it's like in some of these organizations like turning the big ship, you know, gets stuck in the canal, which was that in the news a couple years ago, when you're going to get stuck trying to turn the ship around. This was the Suez. I was following that for weeks. But it's like, what are some simple things that you know, both sides of house nonprofits in the funders could do today to start doing things differently that would really result in more impactful work.
First of all, nonprofits, I hope all of you have at least one funder that you connect with, that you trust, you have a hunch that they're a real person and their receptive. Funders notoriously, do not get any feedback. You know, it's, it's a really strange space, it's probably one of the only industries where you can be doing a horrible job, and people will tell you, you're great to your face, and keep showing up, you know, and so and so, whenever I would get critical feedback, and not just me, like my peers would be like, yes. And, and I think if you have like a funder who you connect with, try it out, try out even delivering positive feedback to start. Hey, these are the things that really are working well for us. Thanks for that. Also, have you thought about this? Yeah. And you know, I've also met with a lot of nonprofits who are hesitant to ask questions. Ask them, like, how are you thinking about where your strategy is going to go next? Are? What do you anticipate is on the horizon? Or, gosh, we feel like this is the next most important thing for us to be doing and fun and nonprofits like ours. Here's why we think that what do you think, you know, just kind of trying it out, try it with the people that you think might be open to it as a start. And even asking them like, hey, eventually, I'm really struggling to raise money for this, or there's a funder relationship that I'm not sure how to navigate and get them to be your ally in that. Again, most funders, I know, would celebrate that kind of interaction. So if you feel like you can give it a go. And then the other thing I would offer to nonprofits is kind of on the theme that I brought up earlier. Pay attention to what is not working in your funder relationships, whether or not you say anything to that funder. Think about it with your teams. And think about how you might apply that lesson moving forward, what might you be doing differently, to kind of break that cycle or that dynamic that's really not working. So you all that's what nonprofits can try funders, gosh, you have an opportunity here to first thing I want to say is Don't shirk your responsibilities, you need to make things very plain and clear, you need to honor the nonprofit's that are putting so much time into the interactions with you. First of all, anytime you make a decision not to fund an organization, it's your obligation to talk to them about your decision. There are so many times that I have saved nonprofits future angst, because I was able to be direct, whether that's giving them an idea about how their approach might fit somewhere else, or, you know, saving time, like they're just not gonna be a fit for a while with this foundation. There's also been times when I talked with an organization about the declination and the way I read their application, come to find out, gosh, they were trying to make things fit. And they just really didn't tell their actual story. And when I heard it, I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is exactly what we need. They reapplied, and they were one of the strongest, strongest aligned organizations because we're able to have that conversation. So need to do that. Funders, please. The other thing is make plain what your expectations are. So I would always when I made a new grant, make sure that the organizations we're working with know what they can expect of me and tell them, please. This application is based on the best you know, right now. If you're doing community engagement, if things change in your environment, please come back. And we'll work out what the next next best thing will do. I'm working with a nonprofit group, actually tribal nation right now. And they are feeling bound by grants that were awarded a year and a half ago. And the depth of community engagement. What we've been able to do since then is pointing us in a different direction. And thankfully, we're able then to initiate conversations with funders about that. But please, funders let people know that's what you expect. I can probably count on one hand, the number of grants I worked with that everything played out the way they thought it would. So create, create that space. Please funders also start inviting feedback. And don't just say, hey, what feedback do you have say, Gosh, I am really wrestling with this reporting process. It's not working for me, I see how much time you guys are putting in. But we're having you know, we're not adding value back to you. What ideas do you have, like get really specific, and please be vulnerable funders about things that you know aren't working well? And ask about it because nonprofits are going to need that invitation so that they feel emboldened to share what's what's real. And by you sharing what you know is not working well. You're going to create that space.
I was today years old. What I heard someone say that a funder should be vulnerable. Can you imagine Jon for a hot minute? What would happen in terms of the authentic connection. I mean, the power dynamic goes out the window, when a funder comes in with that level of vulnerability, that was a brilliant pro tip. Thank you, Hillary Fulton. So you have been such an incredible supporter of the podcast for so long, you know, we end all of our conversations with the one good thing, how can you apply your one good thing to this conversation, Hillary for somebody to take something away, that's powerful.
Thank you for the invitation. And as I was thinking about it, I really need to elevate some amazing work that I've learned about recently, there is an organization that's called fund the people. And I just want to share their mission with this group so you can hear it, they envision a People Powered social sector distinguished by equity, effectiveness and endurance. What they are working on is redesigning this relationship between funders and nonprofits, and making sure people can do it. Well. They just started a program called funding that works Academy. And it's one of the first times I've heard about funders and nonprofits engaging in conversation together, they're in this learning space together. They've got tons of resources on their website, please check it out and engage in that community space, if you can.
I love that. And it breaks my heart a little bit that you're like, after 20 years watching this. That's the first time you've seen something like that happen. I mean, I feel like this is the moment you know, the community that surrounds this work. I know, everyone has a like, valued mindset of like, let's move faster together. You know, and I know, you pour into this work daily, so I just wanna give you space to share how to connect with you. I love that your consulting is called hopeful consulting, like, how great is that?
Literally coaching program officers and things. Tell us
Yeah, tell us how to connect with you and all the things where you are.
Yeah, thank you guys, please find me on LinkedIn, I would love to start a conversation with anybody, if you want to just riff on some of the ideas we've talked about today. Or if you want to dig in and do you know, a little bit more thought partnership and coaching on either side, or with a group of funders and nonprofits together. Whoo, that would be my dream, dream me. But you're absolutely right. As I was thinking about how to really connect with the spaces, I know best and promote Well, being in the sector, of course, I thought about program officers. And I had been working with an amazing partner to develop a program that we're actually going to launch next month. That's really for community facing Foundation staff to support their well being their ability to connect with peers, and start thinking about how they can build skills to really transform the sector the way we need to. So thank you for the opportunity to share that I hope I hear from many of you, with your great ideas about what we can do to change this relationship dynamic too.
Oh, I hope people reach out because we would love to come back and have a part two of this of what happens when people are actually starting to implement these ideas and the change that happens I really hope it works out. So Hillary Fulton thank you for being such a treasure of a human being thank you for coming in here to teach and giving truly some light on the horizon that this new, this new way of working and partnering can be equitable on both sides. And gosh, guys, it's gonna get the funding faster to the people who need it and or animals, or services or environment. Like let's work toward all this together. It's better in community.
Thank you, friend.
Thank you.
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