Whistleblower David Grusch - Need to Know (06-05-23)

2:58PM Jun 5, 2023

Speakers:

Ross Coulthart

Bryce Zabel

Keywords:

dave

story

talking

congress

defense department

people

ross

debrief

american public

intelligence community

interview

kirkpatrick

ralph

published

spoken

leslie kane

secret

bryce

questions

metallic

Hello there. I'm Bryce Zabel and you're listening to need to know. And as you recall from our last podcast, we had to mention that Ross wasn't with us. He was on assignment. And I'm happy to say that that part has been fixed. Ross may still be on assignment, and he is in Paris, France. But he's with us today. Ross, welcome back. We missed you a lot. Tell me what you've been up

to. Boy, Bryce, what, what, a few weeks. It's, can I just say for a moment, let's just stop for a moment. And think about the fact that you and I both know what we're about to talk about. Right. I think this is the beginning of a very important moment in history. I really do. I don't think it's the moment. But I think it's a tipping point of slow movement towards an admission by the US government of things that seem unimaginable. So what have I been doing? Well, we're actually pre recording this because I'm going to be on the move when this goes to air. But what we do know is that at eight o'clock, New York time, five June tomorrow, there is going to be an article appearing in the debrief written by Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, which I hope will rock Washington, the intelligence community and the Department of Defense. Right to its socks. It's the revelations of a hugely important intelligence community insider, a guy called David grush, who until early April, was a very senior member of the intelligence community. And Bryce, as you know, because you've been very much part of this, you've been very much a good mentor to me throughout all of this. Dave and I have been talking for some time. And I have the television interview with Dave grush, which will be going to air later this week. And you'll see, hopefully, in this program, the news Nation TV promotional teasers that are advertising this forthcoming interview.

Think what Mr. grush has to say, is quite momentous. It's, it's big. And I think we have the beginning of what I believe will be a trail of whistleblowers, good men and women, who are now coming forward to talk about what they know, that incredible as it may seem, a non human intelligence that's been engaging with this planet for many, many years. And, incredibly, even further, the fact that the United States government really is in possession of retrieved non human technology. So that's what I've been doing.

Yeah, there's a little think about, I want to thank you for the way you started, because that actually describes my feelings I met Dave grush, through you almost a month ago, met him twice, had lunch with him. Thank you again. But I have to say, I've spent many nights and days in the last month where I kind of sit there and drift off. Because I'm thinking, wow, we've been doing this for a long time as a need to know podcast and YouTube channel. But I've been involved in this, you know, as as you have for years. And I've been thinking about what it's going to take and you call it a tipping point. Yeah, that's what's been getting to me because I've been thinking, well, we're actually at that point now, where it isn't just a hopeful, optimistic, random speculation, but it's beginning to get very, very real. So what I think would be nice for us is if we turn to the table a little bit, and let me interview you a little bit about how you tipped to Dave grush. What you're going to have in your story that's so unique, and and I think we should start with that. I think what a lot of people who have read the article that Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal wrote, will be thinking is okay, well, it's great. I read it in print. Who is this guy? Exactly? Well, you put him on camera. How did you find him and get him to do that?

I have to say my impressions of Dave grush and not formed just by talking to Dave grush. Both Leslie and Ralph and I have done very methodical checking into his background, we've assessed his credibility. And more importantly, we've verified with many independent sources that he is who he says he is. He's basically the guy. He's one of the guys who quite literally was involved in putting together the presidential daily briefing for the President of the United States. He was cleared so highly, with his top secret SCI compartmented clearance that he was given access to over 2000 Special Access Programs. And before any of you leaked to conclusions and assume that he's another Edward Snowden, or another person who's breaking the law to bring this information to the public. The extraordinary thing about Dave grush his revelations are that he is making them under the authorization of the Defense Office, pre publication security review. He has been approved by the US Department of Defense to do the interview. He's done with me. And with Lesley Kane, and Ralph Blumenthal, I like to think I'd hope that this indicates a pleasant level of openness by the US Defense Department. But as Dave, candidly has told me, he believes it's more a necessity for the US Defense Department. He's determined, he wants to tell his story. And I think they see the dotser review as a way of trying to control his narrative. But it's hugely significant, because essentially, he has put what he wants to talk about, to the US Defense Department. And he has received approval from the US Defense Department to talk about what he reveals to both Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. And myself, I think that's quite huge. And it's a very pleasant degree of openness from a department that, frankly, I think we've had good cause to be very critical of in the past. That's one of the reasons why I do think we're about to step into the unknown.

I was just reading before I came on to this podcast, Bryce, a comment by Brian Bender, who I have huge respect for the ex political journalist, they're working in private consultancy, and Brian made the entirely legitimate point that if people are going to come forward, they really do need to be highly credible people, maybe perhaps speaking as program managers, people from within the program. Dave Grusch isn't that. He's not somebody who's worked in the program. But what he did do is he worked for the UAP Task Force. He was perhaps the lead investigator for the body that the Pentagon set up to investigate the phenomenon at the request of the Congress. And it was he who was authorized with all of his compartmented security clearances to go and find the code name programs that do exist, that contain what he alleges, involve, as we've read today in The Debrief, a crash retrieval program, recovered non-human technology that is secretly held by the United States.

I like you in the last few weeks brace ever since I've first spoken to Dave had trouble processing what he's been telling us. I've asked myself constantly, could he be some kind of disinformation stooge that's being put up by the Defense Department, to completely an egregiously mislead the UAP research community. So many people have vouched for him from the inside. I've never been fully candid even with you, my friend, but the people that I've been talking to, but you might remember I told you once that I, in my book as well, I talked about a guy called net coverts. And net was one of the chief geeks for the US Navy. And he was dying. And he gave me leads. And I've never spoken about this before. But he gave me leads that led me to people working in what they purported was a secret program involving the retrieval and attempted reverse engineering of non human technology. And I've been speaking to those people for some time. And it was they who told me about Dave grush. And it was they who vouched about Dave Grohl crash to me. So unless there's been an elaborate disinformation program, going back two, maybe even three years I I think this guy's for real. He's one of the highest intelligence officers ever to come forward. In fact, I think he is the highest intelligence officer ever to come forward on the issue of UAPs. And one of the reasons why I think we should give him huge credibility is because I've been able to confirm and so have Leslie and Ralph, that Dave's allegations made it a secret hearing to the inspector general of the intelligence community, have been verified to be both urgent and credible. And for that reason, his allegations were referred urgently to the oversight committees of the Congress.

You know, Ross, there's so much to unpack there. Let's start with the simplest one. You said at the very beginning that he had filed for adopts a review, you better explain that so people know what you're talking about. They're

sure adopts a review as a defense office, pre publication Security Office review, where they basically look at what people want to write. And if you are a compartmented, Top Secret, clear person, you are legally obliged to get anything that you want to publish, checked by the Defense Department. Now I do emphasize it's not a verification that the statements that the person's making are authentic, you know, theoretically gave could basically put to them a whole series of false allegations that he wants to allege. And they could theoretically verify those false allegations because none of them breached national security. What I find very, very interesting, and this is revealed in Leslie Kane story is that there are things that are authorized in the dotser review by the Defense Department that are simply breathtaking. They are they are authorizing Dave to talk about historical crash retrievals.

You know, okay.

Just to emphasize, yeah, when I say historical crash retrievals I'm talking about, well, I would call it alien, so would you, but the term they use is non human intelligence. They're talking about non human intelligence technology in H AI technology. And we're going to be hearing that term a lot in HCI.

Let's go back to the doxa review for a moment. I assume this is the same kind of thing that Lou Elizondo has just gone through for his book in order to publish it. The other thing about it is, you do say to yourself, why on earth would the Defense Department let him come forward and talk about such things, if they're also at the same time denying that they have any information about it? Well, part of it is, of course, that if they turned him down, if they said you can't go talk about that, that I believe triggers an entire process where he has to, you know, there's a back and forth and it's public, is that right? And so therefore, one incentive for the Defense Department to say, go talk about whatever you want there is they don't want that, or they did not want that kind of back and forth.

First and foremost, let me emphasize Dave grush, is a patriot. He strongly believes that the information he holds, which he has acquired by doing his investigations as a member of the UAP Task Force, he believes that those allegations should be public information, the certain things that he thinks the public should not know. And I respect that I completely understand that. And I can understand, to some degree, why for many years, especially during the Cold War, this was kept secret. But what I do think is sorry, I'll let you talk. I'm sorry,

no, no, I was just gonna say, by way of vouching for all this. I personally have sat and watched you interview Dave grush for I believe, seven hours, two separate events over seven hours. And I have heard him say things in those interviews that you conducted that exceed by a lot what's in the Leslie Kane, and Ralph Blumenthal story, he obviously, you know, he spoke at depth about certain things that I have to tell you, I thought were shocking. Not so much shocking, in that I couldn't comprehend how they could be true, but shocking, in that somebody was actually saying them in a public forum on camera. So one question I had for you is, if even if he's followed this Dopson process, my question is, is he still in any danger of being say arrested? Because obviously, the reason he became this first whistleblower approved is that there's government legislation that came out of The Defense Authorization Act. So what risk was Dave grush? Taking by speaking for seven hours to you on camera about some things that exceed just crash wreckage? What's the deal?

Any whistleblower, I mean, I feel as an investigative journalist, that the one thing that we always have to respect is the person who decides to come out from the shadows and speak publicly about what they perceive to be a wrong or an ill doing, and exposing it publicly. It is the most courageous thing that any Patriot any public servant can do. And sadly, one of the great lessons of journalism is, whistleblowers often get screwed, they get treated really badly. And so in many ways, Mr. Grusch's best defense is to speak publicly, and to get what he knows out there. And to ensure that it's quickly publicly investigated and aggressively investigated. So what he's doing is he's putting his cards on the table. He's revealing what he knows. And yes, you're absolutely right, my friend. I'm aware of Leslie and Ralph story. And I know that what we have goes enormous amount further. And the reason why Dave's done that is because he wants you the public to know. And moreover, he wants you, the public to tell your congressional representative and your senators, the President, and anybody who's listening, including the mainstream media, that they need to make this a forefront issue. I beg this audience to get out there, get the story on social media and back this person, because the worst thing that can happen is that somebody like he comes forward, it's such a courageous act, for a person to do this to come out from the shadows, and speak about this, the worst thing that can happen is if, as I'm sad to say, some in the mainstream media have elected not to give him coverage, and to ignore what he's got to say. So it's incumbent on you everybody listening here, you have power. This is a really important moment in history, because what you can do is you can write to your congressman, your Congresswoman, your representatives and say, I want this in a public hearing. I want these witnesses deposed. Because the key thing is one of the things that Dave reveals in the story that debrief is publishing, is that there are witnesses that he has given evidence about, who have also backed his evidence, in testimony in secret to the inspector general of the intelligence community. Those people have been deposed. They have literally given evidence under oath, and been questioned about what they know about the program about a crash retrieval operation. Now, the Congress has not heard the full story. And one of the things that was frustrating the media's attempt to investigate what Dave Grusch was saying, was that some of what he reveals is, in fact, so highly protected, so highly compartmented that many congressional sources in senators offices and congressional representatives office, were not able to corroborate that they even become aware of his information. This is such protected information. It has been kept from the public, I think, improperly, illegally, and criminally, criminal offenses have been committed, very grave criminal offenses. And this leads investigation. I think this is a bigger scandal than Watergate or Iran Contra. It is massive. And there are people who will have to be criminally prosecuted for what they've been doing terrible things, Bryce. Terrible things have been done in the name of national security to protect this secret.

I want to come back to all of that it is it gives some strength to what our friend the departed Stanton Friedman called things he said it was a cosmic Watergate. And it is a cosmic Watergate, that actually buries the term Watergate. I mean, Watergate is going to look like small small potatoes compared to what's about to come roaring down the pike here. Now, let me make a point of clarification. And then we're going to go back into that, that criminal aspect. You said Ross, that the debrief is publishing this, and I think that's a wise distinction. They are acting as publishers, not reporters here, and you may be too, too nice a guy to toot your own horn, but I'm going to here, I want everyone to understand something you're about to you've already seen something written about Dave grush. It was published in the debrief, but the reporters behind it are Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal who basically have allowed the debrief to publish their report, but they are not part of the reporting. And I say this with no ill will toward the debrief, because I have many friends there. But that's the reality of it. And in the same way, news nation will be acting as the vehicle to transmit your interview with Dave crush, but they did not report it either. You are the reporter of it. So when people want to get into who's responsible for this, whether they want to give you blame or credit, it is my pal Ross Coltart here, who I've literally heard about this for a year talking to you, not by name. But I've heard you chasing this story. And I know that Leslie and Ralph have chased it. So my hat, which I don't have on right now, of course, would be tipped to the three of you. And I I appreciate that the publishing that has gone on, both with news nation on television and the debrief. But you guys are the reporters here. Now, let's go back to this this issue that you just raised? Is the reason that there is reticence and pushback on just coming clean about this partially or completely. In your view. Something that comes back comes about because there are crimes that have been committed to keep the secret, and there are still living people who might face penalties for it. Is that what you're saying? Or suggesting? Yeah,

yeah, I think there are people who will go to jail if US law is heated. I really do. I mean, I'm, I'm absolutely shocked by what's been revealed. And frankly, if what's revealed over the next week, doesn't force Congress and the mainstream media into an extremely aggressive investigation for the first time of this issue. I'm talking about church commission style inquiries. If that doesn't happen. America might as well just declare itself an authoritarian regime and give up pretending to be a democracy.

Strong, strong stuff, Ross, Those are strong words.

No, I'm really confronted about what I'm aware of Bryson, there's some stuff that I'm not publishing out of responsibility, you know, national security concerns, and not all of that has come from David Grusch. I'm really quite shocked. In some cases, I'm scared about what I'm aware of. One of the things I really want to emphasize my friend, and I'm probably jumping the gun on this with you, but you can tell me off later. I think that the real story behind the Dave Grusch decision to go with the debrief is and the fact that I'm doing this on news nation, which is a very new network, a very aggressive and exciting new network. But the fact that it's not going in the Washington Post or the New York Times or CBS, ABC, NBC is an indictment of mainstream investigative media. This whole story, the failure of the American media to recognize that all this time, this has been a real story. It hasn't been a confabulation. It hasn't been an invention or a wacky tinfoil hat story. It's been reality, to hear Dave Grusch say, as he does, that he knows that there's been a deliberate disinformation campaign against the American people to keep this secret from them is in my book shocking. And to hear the account that he gives up the crimes that have been committed serious crimes, very, very serious crimes. And to know that media were approached in the making of the story by Leslie and Ralph to get this published in major newspapers. And you know, what, they didn't get a spine, they failed, they failed horribly to recognize the significance of this story. And they allowed themselves to be led by the nose by people inside the Pentagon who are still trying to suppress the story. And what I would say is, God bless the good people inside the Defense Department, and inside the intelligence community, who made the decision to back Dave grush endlessly and Ralph, and provided them with the secondary and tertiary corroboration that they needed. Because there is absolutely no question and the story that it is nailed down tight. I've made stories with the New York Times and The Washington Post. I've written stories that have been vetted by the editors. I know how hard it is to get a story through those newspapers. But by golly, there is absolutely no doubt in my book that date Russia's story more properly to be featured right now on the front page of The New York Times. And I am calling the New York Times and The Washington Post. gutless cowards for the Failure to follow this story up. This is I cannot believe how badly they have abrogated their responsibility as journalists. What they've done is they've allowed themselves to be fed. They've allowed themselves to be put on the nipple of the intelligence briefers that feat journalists stories, and they've, they've ignored deliberately, they've chosen cravenly to ignore a real story that the American public is demanding to know that, that Congress has mandated by legislation should be known about. And they have contrived in the conspiracy to cover this up. I think the the editors of the New York Times and The Washington Post, and indeed, many of the editors of mainstream newspapers around America ought to be taking a long, hard look at themselves after this story, because they have failed with a capital F. This is a story of failure. And I'm angry, I'm really angry about this. Because knowing what I know, and knowing what you know, now, Bryce, what do you think? I mean, I've got the tables on you. But as I sat there and heard what Dave grush told us, and what has already been revealed in Leslie Kane's debrief article, I got angrier and angrier. It's just appalling that this has been kept secret.

Well, ditto to all of that. It's kind of ironic, what you call them gutless cowards. And I had written down here, cowardly sissies. So I guess we're thinking along the same lines, I'm going to name the names one more time. For people that didn't, or institutions that didn't step up. You got the New York Times, you got the Washington Post, but you also have the hill and politico who also did not step up. And you know, I can't feel very good about that. I'm not just mad at the government, although I am. And by the way, one of the things you're going to learn in Ross's reporting, is that it's a 90 year cover up, not the one that we've been saying might be 80, it's a 90 plus year cover up. I'm angry at the government for not being able to level with the people about this. I don't know what the ultimate truth is, whether it's good, bad or indifferent, but I know that we should have it by now for sure. But I'm also upset as you are and angry and pissed off, that the actual parts of legacy media and even new media got nervous when presented with this article that Kane and Blumenthal had had written and couldn't bring themselves to get it out there. So I'm not happy. Definitely not happy. Now.

One thing I'm really happy about, I'm not just saying this to be nice. I want to pay credit to news nation. And indeed the debrief. If they're having the balls to run this story. They made, they've made a courageous decision as fairly small new media companies to take on the national security establishment. And that's courageous. I mean, it's funny I I, I was thinking earlier on this week, Bryce about a guy I really respect and admire Daniel Ellsberg, the guy who leaked the Pentagon Papers. And I was thinking, what would happen if today Daniel Ellsberg walked into the offices of the Washington Post with the Pentagon papers that for anybody out there who doesn't know, they reveal the failure of US strategic policy and Vietnam, which had been kicked and suppressed and kept secret from the American public for no good reason. And the Washington Post agonized for weeks about whether to run it, then they made the courageous decision, despite the fact that they were national security documents to run them. And you know what? I don't think they would run it today. I really don't. And I think that what this story signifies isn't just a tipping point in disclosure, it also signifies a tipping point in the relevance the growing relevance of podcasts, podcasts, like as new media that the Pentagon and the intelligence community cannot suppress. They might try and stomp on them, and try and buy them off by offering them stories and giving them access to information that other places don't get. But ultimately, what's really interesting here is the success of new organizations like news nation, and the debrief, which are breaking stories that frankly, the mainstream media, the legacy media have completely abrogated and failed to cover.

it possibly could be that this legacy media or the mainstream media, whatever we want to call them, maybe they feel like they have too much to lose, and they don't want to be first. That's why it was surprising in 2017 that the New York Times published the original Kanem Blumenthal and Helen Thomas article, was it Helen Thomas is that they'll have that headline Cooper Cooper excuse me, Helen Tom's, another reporter out of Washington in years past. Listen, you brought up Daniel Ellsberg Just today there is an article out in Politico that is titled Daniel Ellsberg is dying. And he has some final things to say. Daniel Ellsberg was possibly the most significant whistleblower in US history. He's the guy that got the pentagon papers published. And this is what he said in that interview, he's talking about the value of whistleblowers. And he said, when everything is at stake, excuse me, when everything is at stake, I'm talking about nuclear war implicitly here, but climate is the same, when we're facing a pretty ultimate catastrophe. When we're on the edge of blowing up the world over Crimea, or Taiwan or Bach moot, from the point of view of a civilization and the survival of eight or 9 billion people, when everything is at stake, can it be worth even a small chance of having a small effect by being a whistleblower? And the answer is, of course, of course, it can be worth that. You can even say it's obligatory. So let's just let's tip to Daniel Ellsberg and the great contribution he made. And I wish more people will look at that, and see how it was done and try to bring it to this, I do want to get back on track on on our interview or your interview rather, with Dave crush, when I watched it being recorded, and then later as it was cut into various things. I thought, wow, he is definitely saying some outrageous things. And when people hear it, they'll, they'll hear them. But there were some things that he said off camera as well, that were kind of outrageous. But he also said, and you were very diligent in pressing him on certain of these issues. And he said many times, that there were places where he literally could not say, but he had delivered all the relevant material to the proper committees. All right. He said that many times. And I think he was talking about the fact that, as I understand it, he has spoken under oath, and classified hearings to the Senate Intelligence Committee, and I believe even House committee, where he has told not only the story, he told you in those six to seven hours, but all of the stuff about locations, people, names of projects, etc, where he has laid those details out and told the Senate and the House. Hey, folks, if you really want to get kick the rocks over and find out what's underneath, this is where you go. Has Dave grush offered up a credible roadmap then to the American government, for how to get out of this. Yes. Good. Moving on. No, seriously, am I right about that, that he's spoken under oath for over 11 hours to Congress? Correct. I mean, if you think about that, with him naming specifics of all the things that he he was very proper about, it's almost like there was a line given him with this Dobson review. And he knew he could go up to there. But he wasn't supposed to go there.

That part is he knows much more than he's told us.

Absolutely. So when people watch these interviews, as they roll out over the next few days, and frankly, probably over weeks, I want everyone to understand that he is also stating that he has given the details about where what these reverse engineering programs, our crash retrieval programs are. And he's told names and dates, and and all the stuff that Congress would need if they really wanted to go look into this in a serious way. So I think we are at an inflection point. And Dave grush is probably going to go down in history as someone who will help usher it in I mean, so let me just ask you this. Where do you see Dave brush fitting into the grand story of disclosure that admittedly has been going on since at least 1947.

Okay, Dave is not a direct witness. He has not touched a flying saucer, or been inside the program. But he's done the next best thing. What he's done is he's found the documents, the photographs, and the people who do, and they have given their evidence under oath, particularly to the inspector general of the intelligence community, who found his allegations to be urgent and credible. And because of that, they were referred on to the oversight committees of the Congress, including the Senate Intelligence Committee, one of the most powerful committees in the Congress, and the House Intelligence Committee. And I know that a large number of the congressmen and senators perhaps didn't attend the hearings, but to cover themselves they sent their counsel, their lawyers to observe and senior staffers who had security clearances. And it's interesting because I think what's happening here is there's been a very, very careful attempt by the politicians to keep themselves at a careful distance. Because I think what's happening now is the Congress really doesn't know what to do about Dave Grusch evidence, he's wrong footed. He's come forward and said, I know all about the program. This is where the craft are. These are the people you need to talk to. These are the code names of the various programs that are secreted inside Special Access Programs inside the Defense Department. These are the people responsible in the Defense Department. This is the aerospace companies that are involved. He's given them chapter and verse, what I'm really worried about is Congress needs to show a spine. Yeah, they need to develop a new set of balls and start investigating this issue properly. And I think the only way to do this now is to bring it out into the public.

Because I don't think the politicians can be trusted to do this in few tea. I don't think they're going to do it if unlisted, forced by the public, and particularly by mainstream media pressure. So what's really interesting here is, until my interview became probably I don't think the intelligence community knew that I'd done an interview with Dave grush. Until this morning, we've kept it very, very secret. Dave came to speak to us in absolute secrecy and news nation put on a deserted warehouse with high security. And we made very, very sure that the people that attended kept their mouth shut. And I think I'm hoping that the intelligence community is wrong footed and surprised because I think there are certain people in the Defense Department who think great, we shut down the New York Times, we managed to hose down the Washington Post, Politico, the hill. And who cares, they might take the arrogant view, who cares about the debrief, I've got huge respect for the debrief, but it's not a mainstream newspaper, they may think that they can marginalize it inside the world of UAP research. This is where you the public become important. This is where citizen journalism can really help. This is where people need to start writing to their Congress person and saying, I care about this issue. I want an inquiry right to the New York Times demand to know why they wouldn't cover this story. Why is the national security reporters being bought off with cozy little drops about the Ukraine? You know, I'm sorry, I've been there. I've done that. I've seen how it works. I know what intelligence community people do. They buy off a reporter by giving them stories. And this is what they've done with the big mainstream payments. The editors have made the judgment that it's too dangerous to run the story, otherwise, they're gonna get cut off the drip. And this is the biggest story ever. I mean, seriously, if what Dave grush is saying is true. We are talking about one of the top intelligence officials in the US government, a guy who used to hand deliver intelligence briefings, the daily intelligence briefing to the West Wing of the White House. He was the guy that did it. We're talking about one of those top officials cleared for over 2000 Special Access Programs coming forward and saying non human intelligence is real. And moreover, the US has been concealing the existence of retrieved non human alien technology for decades. It's breathtaking. Breathtaking.

I mean, again, congratulations to you for doing this the old fashioned way, as a journalist who cultivate sources, who doesn't blow the sources and works the story. But I just want to highlight one thing you said here because I believe it needs to be said twice. The IC IG stands for the intelligence community Inspector General, the ICMJE. Right. And as Ross said, after Dave grush spoke to them at that office, they put in their cover letter, I believe, to the Congress, that his comments were, quote, urgent and credible. Now, Inspector Generals don't just throw words around for no good reason, urgent and credible. So I believe that we should take that the inspector general at its word and say this isn't urgent case. The reason Dave grush has come forward is that there is an urgency to grappling with this issue. He knows a bit about that and credible that's a comment on Not only what Dave is saying, But Dave himself. So, and again, as I said, I sat thanks to Ross, I sat and got to know this guy a little bit. And I will tell you, he strikes me as incredibly credible. And the story he tells as incredibly urgent. So, and for example, you have stated several times nonhuman intelligence, which is, of course, NHI is sort of the new way to talk about it. And I buy into that. I mean, we don't as he states, he doesn't want to talk about origin, because they're not entirely sure of that, about that. So alien, in everybody's mind is where they come from out there. Well, there may be other explanations. So, but But it is clear that this is non human intelligence, but he has also used the plural. Right, he has used the plural phrase, non human intelligences. And that means there's more than one out there. And that also is a pretty huge headline to me.

More on that in my interview on police station coming up.

So why don't we? Yeah, I don't want this to be a giant tease, because I'm looking forward to the world seeing you talk to this guy. Can I have one serve on the way out Bryce, but you can.

I don't mean to be unkind. But I think people, particularly those in the mainstream media who are looking for an angle, they need to go back and look at the testimony of Dr. Shawn Kirkpatrick to the Congress. He told Senator Gillibrand in evidence not that long ago, only a few weeks ago, that there was no credible evidence to support contentions that there's evidence of extraterrestrial life visiting this planet. That Mr. grush is quite clear that he's not saying it's necessarily Extra Terrestrial. He has various theories about that. And you'll hear more about that on the news nation story. But what he is clear about is that he does not think that Dr. Shawn Kirkpatrick gave a truthful and accurate record to Congress. And indeed, he believes that Dr. Shawn Kirkpatrick knows most of what he's revealing, in his interview with both Ralph and Lesley, and particularly in his interview with me, and I think the American public, the world needs to ask, why did the US Defense Department put a bureaucrat or scientist in a position who appears willing to either unwittingly or knowingly mislead the Congress? And what Senator Gillibrand has to go to do about the fact that she has so clearly been misled in evidence that was publicly televised before the Congress was Senator Gillibrand a conspirator in the conspiracy to mislead the American public? I'm not saying she was, but I think people should be asking that question. I think she needs to clarify whether she knows about what Mr. grush has told the Congress and whether or not she's going to do anything about it. Because now you have elected officials, and very senior publicly appointed bureaucrats being told things in open public hearing, that I know for a fact are complete lies.

I look forward to seeing how legacy media responds to this story. And whether they will apply the same level of urgency that they applied to chasing congressmen and senators down hallways to ask them about the debt limit. Will the will they apply that same interest to this story? And honestly, at this point, I think it's big enough that it could overcome that. But so far, I've been let down, nobody seems to be addressing it.

I'm not holding my breath. I reckon they're going to try and whitewash it and ignore it.

I do too. But I do think that Dave grush takes us to that the, you know, the two roads in which one you're going to take, because at this point, is clear that you either have to double down on secrecy and find innovative new ways to try to put this back in the box, or you're going to have to move forward with some new kinds of transparency, because I don't think you can just put Dave grush out there for who he is, and know that there are other whistleblowers behind them, who have also talked to Congress and who are about to come forward. I don't know how you can keep putting that in a box. So yeah, we'll find it.

I absolutely agree with you. And just to emphasize, Dave grush is just the beginning. Yeah, there are there are people inside the program. And I know because I'm talking to them, who want to come forward and who are waiting to see how Congress and the American media treat people who come forward with revelations of criminality. wrongdoing at the highest level of the US government. Is the US government still a functioning democracy? will it allow itself to to expose the wrongdoing that lies behind the concealment of the crash retrieval program? Why has an illegal disinformation operation, which was essentially banned by the church commission inquiry after the CIA revelations of illegal intelligence operations against US citizens in the 1970s? Why has an illegal intelligence operation to dis inform the American public and the world been run for so long by different intelligence agencies? And why have people tolerated this inside the US government? And why aren't congressmen and congresswomen and senators asking questions about this? They know about it. I know they know about it. I know that there are very senior people in the Gang of Eight who are very well aware of the Dave grush allegations. Why are they sitting on this information? And moreover, why are the national security reporters for all of the major TV networks and all of the major newspapers not being tasked by the creditors to get out there and start banging down the doors and cracking this story, because the great newspapers that I love and admire the Washington Post in the New York Times, they need to understand they failed so far on this story, and they need to get out there and, and prove that they can still do it. This is a really important moment for the American public and for the world. There are technologies, there are discoveries, there are scientific advancements that can be developed as a result of the exposure of what the American government knows. And I know, because there are scientists that are talking to me, who are bitterly frustrated that has been kept secret, because the secrecy they say, has frustrated advancements that could help all of humanity,

right. It's true, Bryce, it's true. I remember some of our phone calls, in the early days of this, and just hanging up and thinking, Okay, well, we're into a new world now. And clearly, you know, we talked before we went on whether we wanted to talk about this NASA news conference that they had, I almost don't want to talk about it right now. But I will if you want to make a few final comments, but then we should come back and, and, and close on the Dave crush store.

Actually, I just realized that the comments that Kirkpatrick made about the lack of any credible evidence for ET life were actually made it and so news conference. And, you know, I'm sorry, let's call it what it is. It's a deliberate cover up. It's a lie. Now, I don't know who's lying. I don't know whether he's being misinformed or misinformed. But somebody very high up is lying. They think they can continue to mislead and deceive inform the American public. And, frankly, you know what they probably can, if the American public don't start rattling the cage, I am amazed how easily the American public are distracted these days by social media nonsense. And by stories that, frankly, don't matter. This is a story that matters. This is a story that could revolutionize our understanding of human history, and our ability to make technological breakthroughs that could transform human society. And frankly, there's no good reason for the continued secrecy. It's time this story was told,

right? I you know, I'll just give a quick take on the NASA thing, watching it. There were some moments where I thought, well, these people, you know, this person gets it, this person gets it, but a lot of they don't get it, or they're they're all not addressing it directly talking about Shawn Kirkpatrick, for example. He actually said, Well, we have 50 to 100 ish, new reports each month, that's very precise, 100 ish, new reports each month, and that's at the arrow office. But he said the number of those sightings which are quote, possibly really anomalous in quote, are two to 5% of the total database. Well, instead of talking about, well, gosh, there's only 5% that are anomalous. So really nothing to see here. They should be focusing on those 5% Because we don't care about the ones that are being identified. We want to know what is going on with the anomalous ones. And then again, this is kind of ironic, because I've already attacked senator Kelly for his some obtuse comments about UAP and past episodes, but Scott Kelly, was on this, this panel for NASA, decades of experience, but what did he choose to make as his big statement, he told a story about how he and a co pilot were near Virginia Beach, and they were convinced that they had flown by A UFO. And Kelly said I didn't see it. We turned around and we went to look at it turns out it was Bart Simpson a balloon, which of course got some polite laughter and, and all that. And again, please guys, that's not helpful. We're not interested in the ones that look like Bart Simpson, we want you looking into the ones that are truly anomalous. And we want some answers. And I think that 10 times more than I did before I met Dave crush, Dave brushed me, as again, as I said, he's not only super credible to me, having met him, but he's super credible to the inspector general. So, you know, this is what we should be digging into right now. And I look forward to that potentially happening. So, Ross, let's see. Take a moment for some last comments. Here you go, my friend.

Okay, just one thing I want to point out about the Neser event that I think is really special. As you know, I've copped a fair bollocking online from people who were very, very skeptical about my friend, Jim Marlin from Texas who has a mysterious metallic sphere. Okay. Now, I note with great fun, that Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick admitted that one of the most interesting observations is that there are genuine anomalies with metallic spheres that have been seen all over the world doing unusual maneuvers. Now, I'll just leave you with this thought. If the US government doesn't know a great deal about these objects, how bloody hell does Sean Kirkpatrick know that these spheres are metallic? How does he know that?

Oh, good point.

I know, Morgan, I'm letting on. And I know they know a lot more than they're telling the American public. Why did he say they were metallic? Funny that?

Well, I'll tell you, Your Honor, that that's why I put a metallic mine if actually, I was just saying if if mine starts to levitate, we're gonna have that is not one of the alien or, or anomalous metal metallic bowls. However, though, I have to say, that was for me kind of an interesting thing to come out of this because people are very interested in this. You actually have spoken to people who have encountered these things and actually have them rolling around in their houses right now. And then we've admitted that they're all over the world. So I don't think we're going to be laughing about metallic balls much longer, because some of them were reported apparently going twice the speed of sound, or even hovering. How does the metallic ball do that? I mean, who's got that tech right now? I'm not really sure that anybody here on earth does have it. So

yeah, I think there's a lot of I think I would, I hope my friend is that after the revelations in Leslie and Ralph story today, and the coming revelations on news nation that I'm putting in my interview with Dave grush, to the exclusive television interview with Mr. grush. I'm hoping there will be many, many questions that the mainstream media and representatives of the Congress will start putting to the Defense Department and the intelligence community. And frankly, the President needs to be asked as well. It's, it's, I mean, I was shocked recently, I tweeted about the fact that it was quite obvious that Joe Biden was being fed questions that were pre prepared by the media, just to what extent is the US media collaborating in making things comfortable for the executive arm of government? My job as a journalist, is to make government's and comfortable and to ask uncomfortable questions. And the whole issue of alleged crash retrievals non human intelligence is an uncomfortable issue. But I can tell you, after this week, the public will know definitively that there has been an active, deliberate, real disinformation program ran against the American public, which I believe is a criminal breach of undertakings that were given in the wake of the church commission investigations into the CIA's elected illegal activities in the 1970s. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is there is so much more to come. I am shocked by what I now know. And it's not just from Dave grush. If they try to neutralize Mr. grush. Don't worry, there's far more to come.

And that's an excellent concluding statement. I've got a little housekeeping to do here. Just so everyone understands. There was an article written by Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, and Ross here is the interviewer and the journalist behind what is going to be on news nation sometime in the next week. And I believe their show will be about an hour. And so Ross interviewing this gentleman, Dave grush is part of that hour but the amount of time that Dave is on the err, compared to the amount of time he taught is small. So I just want you to know there, Ross and I, particularly Ross, we're committed to trying to get the full interview out in one way or another, because I think people deserve to see Dave grush. At length, look him in the eye and see what they think about the guy do they think he's telling the truth I do when I watch him, but it'll be interesting to see what other people do. So again, there's that nice need to know raw tape. That is part of the news nation coverage, hopefully that will find a full light of day soon. And then there was also an interview that we did literally here in my house with Dave crush. That went on for three hours Ross conducted that interview. And at some way, we're going to put that out too, so that people can see Dave and judge for themselves. And when you start to see these things come out, think about this. There are questions he answers. Do they have bodies? Have people been killed? by contact with UFOs? Have people been killed? Because of the cover up? These are questions he actually steps up and puts answers to, and I can't wait for people to see what I have seen and what Ross has discovered. So I closed my part here by just saying strong. Thumbs up to you, Ross. What you've done is extraordinary. I'm proud of Leslie and Ralph for staying in the game and following up their 2017 article. And we are in a brave new world.

And fullbacks to Dave crush the whistleblower. Yes, the courage to come forward. A very

courageous man as you pointed out a patriot and someone who deserves to be in the history books more