My why is to make a difference that's utterly disproportionate to who I am.
Hello and welcome to the Business of Architecture. I'm your host, Ryan Willard, and today had a very interesting conversation with very special guest, Dr. Eric wrecker, Eric has worn a lot of hats as a husband, a father, a dentist, an elite success coach. He's a pilot, a speaker, an author, mountain climber, and a recovering triathlete. He has pushed his life to the limit and discovered that what he was searching for wasn't at the top of the mountain. In addition to running a thriving dental practice, Eric is committed to helping people learn to win the now and discover the life they were meant to live through his talks and coaching. As a speaker, he offers stories and strategies that equip audiences to live with hope to have a plan, and believe that good old days are ahead. Very interesting conversation here because I spoke to Eric, because a lot of the work that he does, as a performance coach is helping professionals avoid burnout, and burnout and overwhelm. Some of the biggest issues that we hear in architecture practice, sometimes we meet architects who have just become, unfortunately have become used to sustaining a level of overwhelm over a long period of time, and have become used to the pain, the discomfort, the stress, the burden. And I've just become resigned, if you like that, that's how life should be. Eric shares his story intimately here today, and talks about his own work as a dentist, we make we draw some parallels between the professions of architecture and dentistry, and how he was suffering from burnout and what he did to turn it around. So what we do in this conversation is we talk about some of the indicators, the symptoms or signs of burnout, things that you can do, and how to build a roadmap to direct your yourself away from burnout and overwhelm. And of course, how to recover from doing such that and how to create a business and a career which is fulfilling. So really enlightening conversation here. I thoroughly enjoyed my time talking with Dr. Eric Rekha. So sit back, relax and enjoy. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures, flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com. Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you please follow the link in the information. Eric, welcome to the Business of Architecture. How are you?
I'm doing great today. I'm excited to be here, Ryan, thanks for having me.
My absolute pleasure. Now, I was very intrigued when I discovered your, your profile and read a little bit about you, you're a you were a dentist of 20 years. And there's some very clear parallels between that kind of line of profession and the architecture profession. And you've had quite a kind of pivot in your career, when now you're training people in leadership in kind of organization, in mindset in performance. And I again, I think it's really interesting just to kind of have some reflections on your past life as a as a dentist, and what was it that caused that that enormous shift, I know that you've led training sessions in in Killam. on Kilimanjaro, you've helped you know, one of the things that you do help a lot of professionals with now is avoiding burnout and exhaustion. Again, this is something that's kind of rife in the architecture industry, where people will just work, work, work, work, work. And for what and and, you know, we're kind of often missing the deeper question questions. And also, you're one of the kind of specialties that you've got is in mindset and optical optical optimal thinking, and overcoming fear. And those kinds of challenges that end up becoming this, you know, like a cage for so many people's careers. So very excited. And perhaps why don't we start with how did this incredible career pivot happen?
Yeah, so I believe that we're all on a journey. And I've heard too many people explain that different parts of life are a marathon or a sprint. And I always felt that I didn't want my life to be a race because it was for too many seasons of life. So I see life more as a quest. kind of fit for We watched this epic movie. And there's the hero that's trained to go through all these different challenges to get to where they're trying to get to. And so, I through being burned out multiple times, I really struggled with burnout. And I believe that part of my journey, one of the redemptive parts of that journey, is that now I get to help people on their journey, wherever they're at, to help them avoid some of that burnout to help them not go so far down the road. As I went, I got to the point of having chest pain, heart palpitations, in the dread, panic attacks, I remember one day laying on the floor in my server room in my dental practice, and just paralyzed, the server had crashed in the middle of the day, I was 30 minutes behind. And I had three of my hygienist waiting for me to come check their patients as well. And I just laid there, and I cried, because I didn't know a way out. And but at the same point, I had to pull myself back up, and I had to figure it out. I just had to do it. And I want to meet people where they're at. So they don't have to go that far down the journey. So I am actually still a practicing dentist. So I still see patients three days a week in my dental practice. And then I coach people and lead workshops and do keynotes around mindset, and all of all the things that you were that you were talking about optimal thinking, overcoming fear. And everything that I teach on, is based on my journey, it's been a rocky one, there's been a lot of mountains, a lot of valleys, a lot of things in between. But at this point in my life, I love that I get to do both of those things. So it's a, it's kind of a sweet spot to be in right now.
It's interesting when we talk about burnout, and you're kind of given some very vivid descriptions there of like, it's the burnout at its most extreme. But I'm imagining that actually, that this kind of crept up on you. And for a long period of time, or maybe even over years, the tension of it was kind of slowly gearing up, and then kind of manifested itself in the sorts of like, if something needs to stop, what if you're kind of helping people identify? You know, the stuff that happens before burnout? What does it look like?
Yeah, so I like to equate burnout, to the frog that's in, in the water. So I don't know if everyone's familiar with that. But if you put a frog in a pot on the stove, and turn the water, turn the heat on, it doesn't notice that the water is heating up until it's too late. And so what I want to help people notice is when is the water starting to warm up? When is it when is it may be getting hot? Because once it's boiling, we got a big problem. And so some of the things that I've noticed about myself and and I'm not immune to burnout, now, I still have to be careful, it still tries to creep back in. Because I am a high achiever. And I expect that everyone who's listening to this podcast would be classified under the High Achiever category. You're wanting to get better you wanting to be your best self, you want to learn about mindset, you want to learn about your business. That's what high achievers do. But some things that happen along the road. One of the things as you just start getting reactive with people, when people that you would normally give a calm collected response to you get what I call chippy. So you snap back and answer a thought response that's not well thought out. You start looking day, and you're overwhelmed, you start to feel like your life is a little bit gray. Seems like some of the colors aren't quite as vibrant as what they are, you lose some of your motivation. You always feel like there's way too much to do and you don't have enough time to get it done. And people who are normally pretty socially active out there doing things, you start to shrink back and go into yourself. So a lot of those things they're they're kind of hard to pinpoint. But if you pause and think about it, I think a lot of us will be able to see oh boy, maybe I've been doing that. Maybe I have been short with people maybe I haven't been engaged in as many things maybe I've been really distracted. Maybe I'm trying to escape my life. That's another thing. We find ourselves always trying to be zoned out of our own reality. We're probably on that burnout spectrum.
Do you find that there's a difference between men and women with burnout? That more perhaps it's something that more men suffer from or is it kind of equally spread across?
Yeah, that's a great question. I think that it might be manifested a little bit differently. But I think I think it's, it's equal I think, men and women, while the roles are different than than what they used to be still, as a rule, or as a, I guess, a stereotype or a commonality, there seem to be a lot of, of women who are trying to balance their roles at home, versus their roles in work. And when both of those roles are overwhelmed, there isn't as much of a place to escape there isn't as much of a place to have some downtime to have some quiet. When I talk to women about this. I talk about the habit of quiet finding quiet. And they say, well, Where in the heck am I supposed to do that? Then I think one of the things I definitely see with men is a refusal to acknowledge it. And the thought that I just have to work harder, I just have to push through this. So I think that's maybe one way that we see it, we see it a little bit a little bit differently, I think probably men are a little bit more slow to talk to someone about it. Just in general, a lot of times, us guys can can think we have to be the strong one, that we have to have all the answers. And so I guess I think that would be a few of the things that I see as differences.
I think it's really interesting, because it's it's something that's very, you know, entrepreneurial burnout is a real thing. And professional burnout, and particularly when you've taken on the responsibility of running your own practice, you know, there is this enormous pressure that everything kind of stops with you is your name above the door, it's your professional liability, you know, your professional indemnity insurance that's being used, you're the one where it has to be, you know, answerable to everything that happens. And you've got if you've got a team working for you, and they make a mistake, and then it comes back on you. And, you know, with with professionals like dentistry and an architecture, you know, there's there's repercussions for this. And there's a kind of legal set of ramifications around your practice and what it is that you that you do. And and most definitely, I mean, I'm very aware of so many people who have gone through this kind of exhausted if experience of burnout. If you're kind of you know, you can start to recognize those kind of emotional things that you were describing. They're becoming more short with people, what would you recommend people to do? How to how do we kind of second navigate this experience of burnout?
Yeah, that's another great question. So I do have, because so many people have asked me this question, I created a five day knockback burnout challenge that you can find on my website. So that's a good place to start, you can just go to my website and grab that. And you'll get a series of emails that talks about that. But I think one of the things that we need to do to start with is we just need to be honest with ourselves. That's step one, we need to quit thinking that this is just going to go away on its own. And so one of the things that I recommend people to do is either get with somebody that you trust, and have a conversation with about it with them about it. So Ryan, if you and I were having coffee, just having the courage to say, Hey, Ryan, I think I'm feeling burned out. I think I'm feeling torched. I'm a little crispy, like, life is getting kind of tough for me. That might be too much of a stretch for people to do that. In which case, I would say just get a journal out, get a piece of paper out and write it in big letters. I am feeling burned out. And I think what happens in that is when we acknowledge something, it's not in the dark anymore. So the things that we keep in the dark and we keep inside us have power over us that burnout has power over us, especially when we keep it secret. I didn't tell my wife that I was burned out. I just didn't do it. Because I didn't want to one I kind of felt like it was normal. I thought this is just what business owners go through all that stuff is just the normal stress of owning a business. So once I started talking with her about it once we cut over the hole, she wasn't very happy with me that I had been fighting this battle by myself. But once we got through that, she has been an incredible support for me. And I think if we have those people in our lives that we can trust, they want to support us. They just don't know how if we don't share it. So step one is always being honest about it. And then step two and other thing is just quit Trying to escape from it. What I think we do is burnout can be this little pebble that's at the top of a really tall mountain. And we can deal with it there, and it just stays a pebble. But what happens is when we're feeling that way, and instead of dealing with it, we decide to retreat to Netflix, or retreat to our phone, or our addictions, or name, whatever you do to escape that, guess what happens, that little pebble starts coming down the hill a little bit, and it grabs another pebble, and it grabs another or if it's snow, it just starts getting bigger and bigger. And if we don't face it, eventually, it's going to get to the point where it completely runs us over. So it's better to deal with it when it's a pebble than when it's this giant boulder that's out of control headed towards us.
In terms of like the kind of mental experience that somebody might be going through. I mean, you spoke a little bit about earlier in terms of like being short and snappy. Like is compulsive worrying part of burnout? And are there certain things particularly business owners that you find, always latch on to? I mean, I know in architecture, for example, money is a constant pain because people don't charge enough, they're not negotiating properly, they don't have any sales processes in place. And there's a whole discomfort around it. And there's a sense of entitlement of like, why should we have to be negotiating all this kind of stuff in the first place? And money really becomes one? It's a big, it's a big one. It's a big one. It's got lots of emotional hooks in it. Are there? Are there sorts of subjects that you think are particularly conducive to worrying about?
Yeah, I think I think what happens is that we're in one of two places, we are either stuck in the past, overthinking the things that have happened in the past bad decisions, we've made the things that have happened to us, we don't see how those things have been redeemed for good. We're just stuck in the past, oh, this happened to me, I was bullied when I grew up when I was growing up. So that formed a lot of my mindset. And I was stuck in that. And I found I was still trying to prove myself to those bullies. So I think we need to learn from our past, we definitely need to look at the things that happened to us and say, What was the lesson that we could learn from that. But then we need to leave those things in the past, we also tend to worry about the future. I worry, I was a chronic worrier when I would have especially a big treatment plan that I was going to present to a patient. I was terrified of doing that. And it would consume me because some of the things that we do are pretty expensive. And so to try to present a treatment plan with someone when their decision then is do I do this treatment plan? Or do I go buy a used car, you start to understand the weight of that. And in an architecture the I can only imagine what the dollars are that you're asking for. So we're also worried about things in the future? Are we going to have enough or they can accept our plan? Are they going to want to work with us are all of these things in so both of those situations stuck in the past or worried about the future? Keep us from the moment that's right in front of us. And that is right now it's the one thing that's guaranteed, we have right now the moment in front of us. And the more that we are not in that moment, the more we're going to struggle.
Amazing. So very interesting, then we've got kind of things in the past that we're kind of living into and kind of storing it into the future. And we get into these kind of repetitive loops, if you like. There are belief systems that we might have kind of built up over many years through experiences that that kind of perpetuate worrisome thoughts. After we've gone through a process of perhaps beginning to share with somebody that you know, that we're actually kind of battling with this overwhelm or burnout. What are some of the mental strategies that you help people with to kind of relinquish these kinds of belief systems or past traumas or past experiences or beliefs, if you like that are that are perpetuating worrisome thoughts?
Yeah. So if you have things in your thought in your past that continue to torment you, and you can't seem to shake them, you think you've learned what you can from them, and they they're just still there. It's imperative that you talk to someone about that. It just is that that past can be an anchor that drags behind us, and we just can't shake at a constant weight on our shoulders. We're finally starting to have some of these conversations about mental health. And I'm thrilled about that, because we need to have those Congress sessions I have worked with with a therapist, my wife has worked with a therapist, both of my kids who have worked with a therapist, why would we not work with someone who's, who can help us work through some of those things and become our best version? So I think I think that's a huge thing. We have to deal with the stuff in our past. And then I think we just need to make every effort that we can to be in the present moment. So so how do we do that when our when our mind starts to drift and wander and we get away from it, I like to use a recentering phrase. And that is just I am here, right here, right now. Some days, I have to say that 100 times. I'm saying it less than I used to, because I find myself drifting. And I and I catch myself. But just coming back to that present moment in what can I do in the present moment. Another thing we can do is if there's something we're worrying about, again, I'm a pen and paper kind of guy, I love journals, I use them, I probably use as much pen and paper as anyone. But there's science behind getting things on paper. So there's a fabulous thing you can do called a brain dump. And many of you have probably heard of that. But you allow yourself 10 minutes, set a timer, you write down everything that's in your mind, everything, what you're worrying about what you're thinking about any word that pops in your mind, just write it down for 10 minutes. And then you take two minutes, and you come up with the top three things that are in there. And then you make a plan to attack those three things. Most of the time, we find that there's not as much running in our mind, as we think there is. And once we get it out of there, then our brain is more at optimal processing power, because it's not running with all those background apps. So I think those are a couple things that we can do. Getting back to the present moment, and then just getting it out of our head and onto paper.
That's quite interesting, kind of pointing towards there that actually we end up worrying about worrying. And when we start worrying about what how much we're worrying, then it kind of starts to compound itself. And that this is actually a very useful strategy for getting clarity on what are the things that are actually kind of causing us some concern, and you can kind of control it, if you like, by putting it down onto it or externalizing it by putting it down onto a piece of a piece of paper.
Yeah, I like that. They're like, that's, that's a great term for it. I think that I think that's externalizing. Yeah. Yeah.
How, how important is vision and mission? So how do you how do you suggest that we do think about the future? And how, and you know, and is there a healthy way to be thinking about the future, which is not condemned to worrying about it, but rather, is it's something compelling and exciting, and, you know, motivating?
Yeah, it's extremely important that we know our purpose, that we know our y that we know in this current season of life, why we're doing what we're doing. A y is not a one time thing, you don't go through that exercise one time and say, I've got this figured out for good. There's a different way in different seasons of life, when you have young kids, the why might almost just be survival, trying to get through that time. But where I'm guessing a lot of people who are listening to this are kind of in that, in that middle part of their career, they're not maybe brand new start that kind of wide open space where you can't really see the end. And there's just a journey ahead. So knowing why you're doing what you're doing, knowing what your purpose is, in the midst of that is so powerful because if you don't have a due north of you don't have a guiding star, then you're just spinning your wheels. And it's it purpose is a wonderful way to prevent burnout because if you find yourself constantly working in your purpose, it's less likely that you're going to get burned out. So at my in my dental practice, my my purpose is to love my patients well and to love my team. Well, that's it. That's what I'm trying to do when I'm there. So if it was only about the technical aspects of the of the dentistry, I would have been gone long ago. I enjoy it. But it pales in comparison to working with my team and working with my patients. So part of the way that I love my patients is by doing great technical dentistry. That's one of the things I do. And so that is all under the under that umbrella in my in my coaching and speaking and writing. My purpose is to Who? My why is to make a difference that's utterly disproportionate to who I am. So what does that mean? It means I want to help a lot of people on their journeys, I want to help a lot of people with mindset, I want to help help people, however I can to help them get into the present moment of their own lives. And so those guiding stars helped me to avoid burnout. Because when I know I'm in my sweet spot, then I'm just not feeling burnout.
It's very interesting, the way you describe the purpose in your work as being a way of loving your clients. And it not being a kind of a goal almost, or something that was kind of much more clearly defined as I need to earn X amount of money or do this amount of work, it was kind of express more like a being a way of being, if you like, as opposed to a way of doing something, which was very, very profoundly simple.
Yeah, absolutely. I have fantastic mentor, I get to start practicing with my dad, in my in my dental practice. So we had the great privilege to be able to work together for I think, 14 years in practice. So I worked as his associate, first, and then I bought the practice from him. And then I was able to be my dad's boss, which is quite a paradigm. But he's one of the most humble, gentle people that I've, that I've ever met. And one of the things that he taught me is that if you take care of people, then the other things will work themselves out, the money will work itself out, and you'll be just fine. If you take care of people and you live a if you live within also living within your means that was important as well, too. But he always taught me that there's nothing more important than the people that you work with, and the people that you get a treat. So I have a very people centric leadership style. And we just make sure our people are in good shape. And when Our patients come in, it's it's really huge that we meet our people, right where they're at. Their people are complicated. Right now, people are stretched, so thin, whether it's financially or with commitments, or even their own choice being on Netflix all the time, or their phone all the time, or all that but people are, there's a lot of people are pretty close to snapping because they don't have, they don't have really good habits, and they don't, they're not taking care of themselves. So I just advise my team, you know, and whoever walks in that front door, we're just going to meet them exactly where they are, where they're at, we're going to show them love, and we're going to be tried to be part of the good part of their story. And you know, over 20 years, everything else has worked itself out when that's our when that's our guiding principle.
How important for you and for some of the perhaps the clients that you you work with? How important is a conversation around faith?
Yeah, so that's, I love that you brought that up. So faith is extremely important to me, my faith is is my true my true guiding principle. But I also believe that I am to exist in the marketplace to meet people wherever they're at. So we don't have to talk about faith. But by showing people that they're loved, and that they're noticed, I hope that people will pick up on my faith. So I have I have lots of opportunities to pray with my team. I do that I don't force it on anybody. I asked them if I can pray for them if they have something going on. With my with my patients. I love to ask the question. And this question really scares a lot of people that they don't want to ask it. But I say hey, how are you really doing? And yeah, when you ask that question, you open yourself up for the floodgates could open and they can share some some things. But some of the best bonds I've ever made with patients are when they share a really tough life experience that's going on. And I get the opportunity to pray for them. There's there's no greater privilege than people can give me than to share the tough stuff that's going on in their lives. And I feel like I get the opportunity to pray for them in the midst of that and oh man, what a gift. Wow. No, I
think that's quite, quite extraordinary. And it always interests me, you know that the importance that faith plays in, in being able to regulate, you might have perhaps some of your own mental thinking your emotions, being able to dig into a higher power, whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to call your faith, man. Whether it's if we're talking about Christian faith or Buddhist faith or, or whatever it whatever it might be the the having the ability to kind of surrender to something, or know that there's, you know, there's there's something that is infinitely powerful, or something that you can connect to, or some way that you can create a kind of wider, broader sense of compassion or existence is, is very important. It's, it's, it's very important. And it's a, it's a practice. And like what you're saying, they're just having the capacity to be able to listen to somebody's suffering or pain, and not bring any other judgment to it, and just be able to allow that person to exist exactly the way they are. And exactly the way they're not not interfering is incredibly therapeutic and incredibly, like there's something deeply deeply bonding about that. And and particularly when we've gone through our own adversity or, or suffering, like our own, you know, kind of carrying the burden of our own suffering, or kind of examining it or going through difficult circumstances, naturally leads us to being much more compassionate
kind of openness that does. Yeah, it sure does. And can you even imagine a world Ryan, where we would meet people where they're at, and then just try to love them where they're at? Can you even imagine if we, if we even tried to if everyone tried to do that to one person each week, instead of just putting our defenses up putting our guard up? And, and not agreeing with them and being angry with them? What if we just met them? Right, where, where they were at? And saw and asked the question, you know, what does love require me in this, and I just think, man, that would fix most of our world's problems, it really would.
I think that's quite, that's quite extraordinary, you know, as as a, as a way of considering how to interact with the rest of the world is, yeah, being able to let go of your own paradigms and preconceptions, and meet somebody genuinely where they are at, and not to put somebody else into the box of right or wrong, you know, irrespective of what their belief system is with, with your own belief system, and to put that aside and to be human with each other, right. So it would open up a tremendous quality of interaction in humanity, which is desperately needed right now.
For sure, and I love where this is going. I when we were talking before, I didn't know that we'd go down, go down this path, but I absolutely love and I have to, I have to mention one other person in my life who's been who's who's been so good at this. I have an associate dentist that works for me, her name is Lee. And Dr. Lee has taught me that concept of meeting people right where they're at. She is such a compassionate person. And she has always been able to see things from someone else's perspective, she's always had that ability to be able to walk in someone else's shoes. We see such a small snapshot of people's lives, whether we see their social media posts, or whether we see them, you know, in the in the grocery store, getting angry with somebody, we know that that's just the tip of the iceberg. And when we can meet people right where they're at, and show compassion for them. Boy, I don't know much of a better gift. I feel like when people have done that, to me when they've given me some grace when something happened. That wasn't how they had expected. It's such a gift. And I love that we can give that to other people.
It's really interesting this over the last week or so running some of my own kind of group consultations with people. And just asking the simple question, how was everybody's New Year? How was everybody's Christmas? What happened? What was it like? And and also in inviting everyone to be like, if it was if it was crap and awful, let us know what happened. If it was fantastic, brilliant, let us know what happened. And I was I was struck by my own first of all my own excitement from my own experience of Christmas and New Year's and wanting to share it and then listening to everybody else's and just got a real deep sense of like, wow, some people would, we're really dealing with very difficult things over this period. And Christmas is one of these times where it can be a real magnifier of whatever's happening in your life. And if stuff is good, and you've got people around you, and Christmas comes and New Year's comes, it's like a time that magnifies that kind of joyousness if you're alone and you're dealing with stuff, it becomes a time where it can magnify that experience as well. And just hearing how people had had Did you know there was there was people who had had very serious accidents with somebody who was in hospital and had brain surgery, there was somebody else who lost a family member or somebody else who was dealing with a custody battle with their children. And it was it was really just, it just a powerful reminder of like, what exactly what you're saying, we don't know what everyone's dealing with.
I think what you brought up there is so important that we just don't know what people are dealing with that and also, the holidays magnify, just like you said, things are good, then Christmas is really good. If things are bad than Christmas is really bad. And I had, yeah, I got some news on the 26th of December that a past friend, we used to hang out, spend some time together years ago, and hadn't been in touch for a long time. I knew that he he was fighting, fighting some battles. And he, he lost his his battle with addiction on Christmas Eve because he lost his family. And apparently, he just couldn't see any hope. And it just breaks my heart that he couldn't see any, any hope in his life. And so I think the lesson from that is, it is so important that we check in with our people. It's so important that we're willing to just send a text message, hey, haven't heard from me for a little bit. I know, this can be a tough time of year. How are you doing? And and when we see people, wherever we meet people being willing to ask that question, how are you really doing? Because a lot of times, how are you doing ends up with fine. And we know nobody's funding? That's, that's the worst answer. But just just being able to meet people where they're at. And some people are listening to this. And they said, Well, I'll have any people. What what do I do if I don't if I don't have any people? Well, it's, it's a time in life where you where you can have people you can reach out to a counselor, you can reach out to a coach, my coach that I work with has become one of my inner circle people, I would consider him a 2am. Friend, the world fell apart and I needed them to to am, I can message Mitch. And that's just, we need those kinds of people in our lives, so that things aren't as magnified, having good people around us can be a real buffer for the tough things that happen in life.
It sucks extraordinary. And, you know, kind of just reflecting on some of the, you know, we were talking just now before we started the interview, but you know, your experiences in in Kilimanjaro, and I was saying I recently spent some time in Kenya. And one of the things that I was struck by was, in the West, we have a propensity to, like we're very individualistic. And we have a propensity to like take on everything alone. And I was very struck by kind of some of the, the dynamics in the villages that I got to go and visit with my my partner and her family, that there was a there was a there was a team effort happening. And there was a kind of a collective sense of helping, like, just, for example, just child rearing, where were all the Auntie's are referred to as mummy was mommy. Because everyone's sharing participation in the raising of children. And there isn't this kind of like heavy weighting, and we do this in our careers and our jobs. And I find, sometimes when we're talking with when I'm talking with my own clients, for example, that a lot of the relief comes from just hearing that other people are dealing with the same sort of stuff, and that they're not alone. And there's something about creating this tribe, creating your own village around you creating this own group of people around you, you know, which can go beyond just your our immediate families. But do we have a responsibility to do that? Because it's, it's like a it's a it's a mental resource and an anchor to kind of to build you up?
Yeah, 100%, lots of thoughts running in my head with that. I've been part of an organization called many hands, and many hands has done relief work in Haiti, and also in Abaco, which is an island in the Bahamas that was decimated by the hurricane. And so, in both of those places, we've talked about the phrase better together. We because we are as humans, we were meant to be communal. We were we were meant to be in in villages. The phrase, it takes a village to raise a child is it's true and I think one of the horrible things that COVID did and no political statements about COVID, I don't want to go down that road. But what happened is we were cracking towards being individualistic. And COVID just put rocket fuel into that COVID said, other people are toxic, we can't be around people, we have to be isolated. And a lot of people haven't recovered from that. And to me, that is just, it's terrifying. Because no man is an island. No woman is an island, we were not meant to be individualistic islands with no support system. We're just setting ourselves up for for catastrophe, because we got nothing to grab on to when we're falling. So I just I think it's it's so important that we have our people I just without, there's there's two things. And I've talked to probably a dozen therapists about this, because I think it's a it's an interesting question. I just keep asking, is there any way that we can thrive in our lives without without two things, one is quiet, when we actually have some quiet some space where our brain can idle and just rest away from all the noise, and good relationships. And several of the therapists have said, if people were better at quiet and relationships, I wouldn't have to see him. And I think that's so important. And no one has said that they that they believe that people can thrive without any quiet in relationships. So I think it's just extremely important that that we don't try to be isolated, yes, there's some things we have to go through. And we have to figure out on her own, that's, that's, that's true. But we need people, I will, I will argue that one nail, we just need we need people. I
think this is such show such a reassuring conversation actually, that, you know that, you know, one of the one of the big ways that we can support ourselves as in is by focusing on the quality of the relationships that we that we have around us. And, you know, in business, for example, one of the things I often see people, you know, we end up putting our business first above everything and everything else. And as a point at which that stops to work, it stops working mentally for us. And you know, when the business becomes a source of fracture, in relationships with the people that we care about the most obvious thing, which is stopping us spending time with our children, or our wives, and what's the thing that's kind of constantly preoccupying our mind, then the business owns us, and we're not the business owner anymore. And it's, it's not far off, you know, this route to burnout is not far off down that that road. And I love, what you're saying here about the focusing on relationships, actually, is, you know, it's so it's so important. And it's such an important part of just maturing as a human being. Because so many of us have these have relationships or fractured relationships with parents, for example, that never got resolved, or relationships with brothers and sisters that we haven't resolved and whatever it is, and then we end up building this kind of very skewed picture of what the world is like. And you can we can understand that but to have the maturity to go and speak with a therapist or a coach or or be involved in personal development and just take that world that world of the inner domain, and relationships on, like hats off to human beings that do that. And it's massively important.
Yeah, and in there's never been a more accessible time to work on yourself. There just never has been, there's so much content out there. Granted that there's probably too much content out there, you can you could never put a dent in it. But what I remember the first time I heard the term self awareness soon, well, that's kind of weird. We're, we're only supposed to, you know, be thinking of others and all of that kind of stuff. But a good friend of mine, he said, Eric, look, you have to be selfish, to be selfless. You have to be a little bit selfish, to be selfless. And I said, Stan, you gotta tell me more. I don't, I don't get it. He says, Well, if if you are not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of other people. So you have to develop good habits in your life, to refresh and to refuel, so that you have something in the tank to be able to help other people. You have to get good rest so that you have energy to do what you need to do in the world. You need to eat well and serve your body well, so that it has energy. You need to work on your mind so that you have a clear mind so that you have something to give other people. So if we are hoping to do selfless things for other people, and I hope that we do want to do that, we have to have something to give first. So I think it's important that we do that. And part of being selfish, is making sure we're in good relationships with other people, it's a blessing for them, but we need it for us too. So I think that phrase gets a bad connotation be selfish to be selfless. But I don't know, I don't know anyone who's really effective at at helping other people that isn't helping themselves a little bit, as well.
As it's like a kind of enlightened self interest. And, you know, like, like the, the on the airplanes, you know, they say, put your oxygen mask on first, before helping anybody else. It's, it's very much like that kind of analogy. In your work with clients, what kinds of things do you suggest for people to improve their relationships? What are What does healthy functional relationships look like? And, again, we can imagine people have kind of found themselves in this very isolated position, perhaps they're not talking to anybody and all relationships have become frayed. And then work has become this kind of source of anxiety. How does how do we start to just build relationships? What kind of strategies would you suggest?
Yeah, I think that's a great one. Because we feel like the first step is too big. I don't have any friends, I don't have any relationships, I don't have anything. And that's a mountain. And I can't climb that mountain. Well, let's figure out a first step. Because mountains are climbing a mountain and I've done it before, it's just a series of steps. That's all it is. And if you stand at the base of the mountain, it's always going to look like a big mountain. So in everything that we do in life, we need to figure out what the next step is, what's a 1% step? How can we get 1% closer to our goal? So you don't have any relationships? Okay, how can we start? All right? If you're a person of faith or go to church? That's a good place to start. If you what are your interests? What are things that you are interested in? Do you like to play games? Maybe there's there's a group that likes to play games, there's there's a gazillion online groups that are that, that have common interests? There are there's probably somebody at your work that you could reach out to and say, Hey, you want to grab coffee sometime? Or do you want to even grab a virtual coffee? We don't even have to be face to face anymore to have these these interactions, we can do it through zoom. We can that person that you sit next to at work that you always have the surface level conversations with. Dare yourself to ask, Hey, how are you really doing? Don't feel like you have to go to if you don't have any people that you have to have five people by next week, because you're not going to. And that's okay. But what is one small but significant step that you can take towards having a good relationship in your life? And in family is a good place to start? It really it really is. And if you have broken relationships with your family, are those worth working on mending? Do you even know why those relationships are broken in the first place? Maybe a friend that you had a falling out with? Do you even remember? Why is it worth fixing? What is one small thing that you can do so we stand at the base of way too many mountains in our lives unwilling to take the first step? If you take the first step, the mountain looks smaller. And it's easier to take the second step than it is the first step. So that's that's usually where we start. Wow. Namaste,
I can very profound advice there, you know, then this the kind of being willing to look at relationships that are not working or not working as well as you'd like them to and to ask yourself the question, you know, why, and what was my role in it? And how much? How much am I willing to carry on this resentment? I think that's really interesting when we talk about interpersonal relationships, and some of the deepest relationships that we have in life with our spouses, with our children, with our parents, that if we find that there's a lot of resentment or anger that hasn't been dealt with there that that can kind of, you know, those relationships are kind of template relationships for all the relationships that we have around us. And if we haven't done some inquiry and investigation, you know, sometimes there is it says it is worth severing relationship with somebody who's, you know, who's who. It's not a healthy, it wasn't a healthy relationship. Sometimes, there's a lot of gold there, there's a lot of resentment that we've been hanging on to and just deep levels of misunderstanding on both parties, that's not worth the separation. And there's an enormous amount of just emotional and energy that can come from that. That can be a hugely stabilizing I love I love that that's wonderful.
Yeah, train, feel a relationship, if if it's worth healing, and if it's not a toxic situation, just think of some of those relationships, how much of the work you've already done in those relationships. If those can be reconciled, then you can basically pick back up where you are. And, and that's really cool. Another thing you can do, and I just thought of this, if you if you feel like you have a friend, but not a lot of friends, ask that friend who are there people, you know, if they're going to do something as a group, Can I tag along? Hey, can I can I get get in with some of your people? Our networks, a lot of us have very generous people in our in our networks, and and those people are willing to lean on us. What if we lean on them a little bit? I think it's okay to do that.
Amazing. Fantastic. I think that's perfect place for us to conclude the conversation. I feel like I could be speaking with you for the next three or four hours quite, quite happily then delving into this. But thank you so much, Eric, that's really very insightful and very pertinent kind of advice there that you've been talking about. And I might have to continue this at another time. Thank you.
Yeah, that'd be great. I'd look forward to it. And that's
a wrap. And one more thing. If you haven't already, please do head on over to iTunes or Spotify. And leave us a review. We'd love to read your name out here on the show. And we'd love to get your feedback. And we'd love to hear what it is you'd like to see more of and what you love about the show already. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how we might be able to help you please follow the link in the information. The views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those of the host and I make no representation, promise guarantee, pledge warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you be unstoppable
