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Hey, I'm John.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, what's happening?
It's about time we had Kel on the podcast. This is long overdue, right?
I've been like following her forever, it feels like it y'all we're going to talk about something that you're probably carrying in your pocket that we forget actually has the function of a phone. We're gonna actually talk about using the phone today for a phone talking about this breakthrough strategy that I've seen Kel talked about this on LinkedIn a lot. And I'm just so intrigued and so it was such a great fit to bring into our How It's Built Series of the podcast. today. We're talking all about growing your mid level donor relationships. We're talking about a phone strategy. We're talking about the five minute fundraising ask. Y'all we all need this. I told Kel before we started that I needed this like 10 or 15 years ago, so I really need it now.
Truth.
So let me tell you a little bit about Kel Haney. She is in New York City and Maine based fundraising consultant. She's a trainer. She's a coach. She's a speaker, she's a really good follow on LinkedIn, if you're not following her, like go follow, her musings and her storytelling is just so smart. But look, listen, she empowers nonprofits to grow their mid level donor relationships through these five minute fundraising asks. We're talking over the phone. This is something we can all employ. In before this during her 18 plus years in the nonprofit sector. She's personally made over 20,000 I didn't stutter there y'all 20,000 fundraising asks, and trained nonprofit organizations to raise almost $20 million. I mean, we're talking about donations under $2,500. So that's a lot of change. They're coming together, kill kills work boils down to just taking the mick out of the ask. I love that so much. She's so passionate about shifting funders and conversations away from transactional goodness, we keep hearing this throughline. I'm so thankful this is our moment towards relationship building opportunities. And so today is going to be all about unpacking this. We're going to talk a little bit about her history and her past working in the theater space. And her it kind of were her authentic fundraising methodology kind of grew out of that experience. And so when Kel is not talking about fundraising, you know, she is kicking up some amazing meals with her awesome husband, Michael from their various travels. She loves board games, and they have a rescue pup, too. And they live on an island in Maine. How cool is that? So Kel get into this house. We're a little excited you're here.
Oh, I'm very excited to John and Becky. Definitely a rabid fan of YouTube and Julie and the whole We Are For Good family. So I'm so thrilled and honored to be with you today.
I mean, Kel take us back. I mean, you have such an interesting journey. I love your theater experience overlaid and kind of created this bedrock that you've built on. Take us back to growing up though. Like what are some formative experiences of little Kel and what kind of informed your journey today.
Oh, little Kel loved theater more than anything else in the whole world a
So did little Becky.
I love it. Yay, theater kids, were running the world. And I would actually dress up to go to the theater. Because for me like I didn't grow up religious, but like that was my church. So it was like, I felt like the actors could see me. And so I would go dressed up to the theater because they were there right in front of me and I would get so excited and starstruck to meet the actors after the show. Even we're talking high school productions, like my family would say, Why are you all dressed up but it was like I was going to the theater, even if I was going to the local high school auditorium. And I always loved to storytell. If I was by myself, it was with my little tape recorder and I would tell stories into my tape recorder I love to listen to stories I would make my brother and all of my neighbors and my cousin's all do the play. And like kids would get bored. 15 minutes in I go crying to my mom. Sadly, she would say stop being so bossy. A whole other story.
We are the same human. Keep going.
Storytelling, connecting with people, verbally communicating, that was like truly, truly what I loved more than anything. So I came to New York for what I thought was a three month long internship. Right after I graduated from college and I wrote a play and I thought it should win the Pulitzer. It should move to Broadway was being programmed by this off Broadway theater Manhattan Theatre Club that next year, so I decided to stay in New York and I started working for the artistic director. Smallest fish biggest pond, like a nicer version of Anne Hathaway in the Devil Wears Prada but like that scale for my industry
Holy smokes.
So the play that I was got to be a part of, and I got to be on book. For those of you who don't know, that means you're actually reading back and forth with the actors while they're in tech and previews. That play, I got to know everybody. And it was a play called John Patrick Shanley's Doubt that was subsequently made into a movie with Meryl Streep and the late Philip Seymour Hoffman, and was just on Broadway again this year. So speaking of everything is new again. But that was hyper formative to me, because I read this play. The last line is I have doubts, I have such doubts. And it just grabbed me at 22. And it just kept me kept me in New York, kept me in New York. And so then I started fundraising over the phone for the theater that produced that show, because I needed to make money somehow as a theater director in New York City. So I got really good really fast. And that's where Jon, the majority of my 20,000 asks come from, because I personally raised over $6 million in less than eight years, all in gifts under 2,500. And I didn't have a background in sales or in fundraising, I was just talking about my favorite thing, and connecting with people over my favorite thing. And so I have subsequently reverse engineered that. So that's how I got here.
Okay, you have just succinctly and beautifully storytold why I love this work. And why I dispel this idea that people always say, Oh, my God, I could never ask for money. And I'm like, that's not what I'm doing at all. I'm creating this connection between this thing that I have a deep passion for I am casting the vision, sharing the story of why it means so much to me. And the ask is like one sentence out of that whole journey. And I just think, what a beautiful story. I'm so connected to it. I'm three weeks away from being on going to Broadway with my daughter to go see Wicked. And I'm like have to ask you sorry theater dorks here. Like what is your favorite play? What is the favorite musical? What is your favorite theater? I want to know this. And you have to pick your favorite child.
It's so hard. I will I haven't easy because my best friend Jasmine Cloud is a theater director and she's a Tony voter. So last week, I got to see some shows, I got to see three shows that are on Broadway right now that we're all really amazing. Merrily We Roll Along is some of the best musical theater acting I've ever seen in my whole life. And I used to go to the theater like eight times a week for 16 years, I've seen a lot.
Oh my gosh.
so that's extraordinary. So is Illinoise, which is Justin Peck's piece, that's all dance to the Sufjan Stevens album, Illinois. And I also saw Stereophonic last week. And that was really amazing. And there's an actor in it that I've known for 15 years, Eli Gelb. And I really feel like I see my own mortality in the best of ways, through actors, because he's like, exactly who I knew when he was in his early 20s. But as this like 30, mid mid to late 30s year old man, and so to see that human be that same human, but with that life experience bringing to this iconic part. Well, it's just everything like just like theater encompasses humanity to me.
It totally does. That's how I feel about rent. That's how I feel about all of it. And thank you, everyone for indulging that side there. Because I do think we are not just fundraisers, we are not just marketers, we are not just volunteers. We are complicated humans that love and have connectivity to so many things. And I'm really excited just to have this mid level strategy discussion. And I want to give a shout out to our friends at Allegiance Group and Pursuant who have powered this discussion for the How it's Built Series, because we want to talk about the impact and this case for building this mid level program. So before we get into the playbook before we get super tactical, we want you to like sort of break it down for us. So someone can implement the strategy today. Like, talk to us about the impact, talk about what organizations can unlock what the opportunity that exists in their mid level program.
Yeah, I think I mean, the big thing to think about is that you we need to find a way to connect with mid level, I feel like this messy middle nickname is sticks for a reason. And just I hear this as a pain point. Every time I talk to not for profits, it's what do we do about from that level, it's we, for the most part, understand we've got a steward, the major gifts, we're going to take them out for lunch, we've got the time, the resources, hopefully we're figuring out a way to do that for them. Smaller gifts. I just think what we're doing in terms of mass communication, and segmenting and technology is going so well. But what I see as the middle is what do we do, they need some kind of connection. So what I do is I encourage a five minute phone call. So if you think about that, and I'm doing the math in my head or on my cell phone quickly, but basically if you spend an hour and you're doing five minute phone calls, you're talking about 12 in a week, and if you do that over 48 weeks, we are talking about 576 phone calls you can make in a year.
Whoa.
That's an hour, like every week for 48 weeks, so to say just pick up the phone, you can learn so, so much. There's so many things mean to me, it's really about focusing, like we said, instead of transactional and counter relationship opportunity, it's about the forest that is building a long term relationship with this community member. And I think about them as community members, not donors, lapsed donors, major. It's, it's a community member, right. So I'm always saying like to focus on the forest that is building this relationship, as opposed to the tree that is this one time we're engaging with them. So everything I'm training, and I'm coaching, and consulting on is like, truly big picture. Because I find that if we're really focused on big picture, the money always follows people know, we are all marketed to 1000s of times a day. So when we have a moment, that's truly you guys use these words all the time. But you know, in these phrases in this ideology, but if we're really being authentic, and vulnerable, and specific with the human in front of us on that call, like, it is so intimate and so immediate, and we feel it right. And so the money always follows I don't even worry about the results, because they will always follow if we're focusing on the long term relationship.
Okay, I love several things that you said there, I'll try to remember them all, because I'll go with what you just mentioned, the power of disconnecting the results with just showing up authentically doing the actual thing is powerful. And I think, you know, people ask us, how do you get to 530 podcast episodes, it's like, we just kept publishing, we didn't wait, am I going to publish today or not? Like, we're gonna do the thing, we're gonna keep just do the consistency, because it does snowball over time. So I love that. And I also love this is another podcast piece, but people feel connected to us, because they've heard her voice, like it's so intimate, and it's so close in your ears. And there's something different today about being on the phone and hearing the voice. And maybe me stutter or stumble over my words that adds to a human on the other line of this. So I love that you're doing it. And I love that it's disruptive in 2024 to talk about let's call.
Totally
Alexander Graham Bell would be really happy of us to still be championing.
Yeah, the evolution?
Yeah, so crazy. I never would have thought 20 years ago, when I started doing this, that we would still be using cell phones. But guess what, we all have to talk to health insurance, we have to talk to the lawyer, we want to be on a walk talking to our friends or our family. Like, it's why voice memos are a thing. It's why on all of our different platforms, we've got voice memos, it's like there's something about the intimacy, of just hearing someone's voice. And it's here to say. It really is.
So true. And we're all have proven that it's faster. That's when we voice Yeah, because I don't want to take the time to pen it out. So it's like, the case is really strong Kel that I'm like, this is such a core strategy that in five minutes, you really could accomplish more than trying to craft an email for like an hour or so it just says all the right things.
Yeah. And you're getting so much qualitative research as well, in that moment from the community member, you're hearing from them things that they wouldn't say otherwise. And that's always really fascinating. It's like, Hey, I've been trying to talk to that person, I have no idea why they're not giving, I have no idea, you know, what is going on. And people share things over the phone that they might not share in person, or they might not share with leadership, or they might not goes both ways, right? Or they might not share with the DFD. But they'll share with somebody else. Like I mean, it's just it's all about building individual relationships within the community. So we get so much information. And also, it's so much harder. It's easy to say no in an email. And it's Yeah, as we all know, to lose connection over email.
Oh, my gosh, so true.
So good.
Yeah. And so are we saying that like a no as a no as a gift, a no as an invitation to reignite and restart, maybe even repair, depending on what's going on with that person. So, you know, it really is so much easier to do that when you're on the phone than you are on the computer. And I find that people who are newer to not for profits, they'll get someone on the phone who says you know what, Becky? I really love your organization. But this year, I'm prioritizing travel with my family. And the newer fundraiser who might not be so comfortable on the phone says okay, thanks so much Becky. And hangs up the phone and has no clue they were trying so hard not to be pushy, not to annoy that person, but they have no idea that they just made it transactional. They just made it icky with you. Because you said I can't give right now and they hung up right away as opposed to saying thanks for being so forward and you know, candid with me Becky, I'm so excited. That's awesome. Where are you thinking you're going? Be human.
Okay, I have to I have to riff on this for just a second because we if you followed We Are For Good and you know this very basic impact arc that we have put together. It's this concept that we can stage, we can storytell, we syndicate but the last one is stoking. And I think that we have put the idea of stoking that it's only digital. And it's not stoking happens everywhere. And what I mean by stoking is how do you engage? How do you return someone's engagement with your reflection of I see you, I want to know more, I want to show you that I value whatever you contributed, whether it was a comment, whether it was a like, whether it was a, Hey, I can't give right now? Someone has given you information about them. And I think what you just said, is such a brilliant pro tip about stoking on the phone, because if you hang up, you have done nothing to stoke at all, and you don't have a next endpoint to make connection. And we want people to feel seen, and I just I'm sorry, I'm a marketer. So I'm thinking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And it's like right there in the middle after we get past safety. And, you know, these basic things that we need psychologically, it's love and belonging. And that is really where we're trying to tap into the connection. Stoking is such the bridge, to creating an enduring that love and belonging. So just a shout out to you for being brilliant with that.
Thanks, Becky. I also see that that stoking, it really becomes like trickle up in an organization because people see the magic of what happens on these calls. And then we've got the qualitative research to share. And we're saying, Hey, we're all just truly connecting with the community members. And it's so hard, I mean, everyone who's working at not for profits is so overworked, under compensated, it's so hard to celebrate wins, it's so hard to get out of that transactional. And of course, if you've got development staff that what they're doing most of the time is, is handling interactions handling, like the admin side of things, and the true transaction, of course, that's hard to then use this other part of their brain. But I truly think that everyone who works with a not for profit in the social impact sector, that every single person is a fundraiser. Every single person is an advocate for the org, whether they ever make an ask or not. And so what I train is that there's never a weird, icky, awkward transition into an ask because it's baked into the whole conversation of guess what we're not for profit. So part of our impact part of what we're doing is we're always fundraising. So if we can normalize that as part of the messaging year round, it's never a weird moment of than having to switch they already know it just like almost like what we do with major gifts right. Like with major groups, we never want someone to be surprised by an ask, you can actually set that up for the rest of your community as well.
She's literally unwinding every mindset that we had about annual giving.
I know, Becky, you're like so right, that, to me, this is going to be one of those defining conversations that we want to keep coming back to, because there's so many pieces that are here for everybody. Everybody is a fundraiser, it's a team sport. So let's get into this playbook, Kel, I mean, we got to know books out, you're gonna break down for us? How can we really grow mid level donor relationships through these quick, authentic phone calls? Let's so let's jump in. Where do we start?
Absolutely! Okay, so what we're gonna start is, I'm gonna give you like a really quick crash course into like, what my actual methodology is. So we'll just like, dive in. And this is something that I train over a lot of time, but we can just get in there. So basically, my five minute fundraising framework ask, is like I said, is a reverse engineer of what I did in those 20,000 calls myself. So I would recommend, we won't even get into this, but there's a whole lot of what I would call for theater kids pre production that needs to happen in terms of really getting clear with your own mindset, your own money mindset. I think Lynne Twist is a good place to start. And I also would say in terms of understanding your own why Simon Sinek, is a really good place to start with that too. I talk about these things in training in a larger sense. But the five minute phone call, I look at it as a tent. Okay. And so when I say tent, I don't mean the kind that you take camping that maybe Jon, that you and your family are using as we speak, what I mean the kind that we are under for a reunion. Or in my case, when I had 55 people at my wedding on this little island on Maine, and we had a lobster bake, it was in a tent. And so things I love about tents are that they create community. We're calling people in, there are no doors, there are no windows, people can come and go as they please. But we've got our tent. Also with a tent, it's movable. So whether that's we're talking about our year end campaign or our spring campaign or our capital campaign or our new leadership, we can move that tent wherever we want to go. Okay, so what holds up a tent? Tent poles. Okay, so I have four tent poles that I recommend when you're on a five minute fundraising phone call. So I have people say what's your script? Send me your script. I don't have a script. You may want to write yourself.
The actor doesn't have a script. This is so enlightening
Improv baby.
No, no. Totally, because what happens with a script, right? That becomes impersonal, that becomes rote. And the whole idea is, and like you said, Jon, to the point of your ums, and uhs and likes that might come out of each of us sometime that we're all have the little perfectionist on our shoulder, those are actually good. That's showing the seams, that's reminding that we're human. Okay. So four tent poles that I'll tell you about super quick. And the idea with the tent poles, is that you always know where you're going next in the conversation. So you can go on whatever tributary I like to think of just like you would in any other conversation. And the idea is that these conversations should feel synchronistic. I want it to feel like that person you ended up talking to when you were in line at the farmers market, or at your kids soccer game, or that friend of a friend that you met at a cocktail party, I want these conversations to stoke in a way that is like from a personal place. So an offline Becky, we're talking about a call you had like that. And so but again, you got really connected to the person who was asking on the other line, right? So I have 4 tent poles, and so you always know where you're going next, okay? So you want me to just tell you what those four are?
Yes. Let's dive into it.
Okay.
Start at one.
Okay. So number one, yeah, it's my pleasure. Number one is the first 15 seconds. This is when you're establishing a trust and rapport with a community member. So as opposed to having a conversation where I would ring ring ring to Jon? Ring, ring, ring.
Hello.
Oh, hi. Am I speaking with Becky?
You are.
Oh, hi, Becky. My name is Kel. I'm calling with organization XYZ. How are you today?
You know what? I'm having a great day. What about you?
I'm okay. Thanks for asking. Is this a good time to talk?
Yeah, I got a couple minutes.
So that's option one, right? Here's option two, ring, ring ring.
Your turn.
Hello.
Hi, Jon. My name is Kel. I'm actually the director of development with the organization XYZ, thank you so much. I don't know if you remember this. But you made a donation of $1,000 back at the end of December, we actually surpassed our goal, which was amazing. So I'm just touching base right now because we're on our spring campaign would love to get you more involved in what we're doing right now. But first and foremost, I just really wanted to know what got you involved with XYZ in the first place? And do you know we've got that event coming up next week?
Oh, my gosh, yeah. I already feel like recognized. And I feel like you saw my gift. You connected it to impact.
Impact, yes. Getting it over the finish line, all of it. And I see you asking for my story and connection, which is really smart.
Exactly. Exactly. So there's a lot going on, and I won't get like super into it. But basically, I'm assuming I'm talking to the person that I have on my list. It's usually a phone, it's usually a cell phone, I'd rather ask for forgiveness than permission. I'm setting the stage, you're always hosting the call, that's really important that you're always the host of the call. And you're always like making an arc of the story. That is the call I use arc terminology too. So yeah, you're really front loading with a lot of information. But also then, you know, hey, this person doesn't sound like a telemarketer. I don't think this person is a scammer. This is like the best scam ever. If that's true, nobody.
No bots.
And know exactly. That's my next, you know, also, it's not a robot, like you're not talking to a robot. So it's really disarming that person, because we all walk around with this armor when it comes to gifts in this way and talking to people in this way. So it's a really good way to just kind of open that conversation and set the stage and I've already I started with gratitude. And I also mentioned that like I'd love to get you more involved. So even in tentpole number one, we're mentioning that like, yes, we're a not for profit, we're always fundraising, if this is a great moment for you to get more engaged, amazing. If not, no sweat, that's fine, too.
So good. I'm feeling it's weird that it's or maybe it's not weird that it's tracking with our impact arc to I mean, these things can be so simple, as long as they are human. So loving the first tent pole, take us to the second one.
Okay, tent pole number two, this is the main event. So this is calling the community member further into your organization, you're going to share whatever is happening at your org that you're excited about. So whatever wins internally, you're excited about things that you're sharing in the press, you're going to share what's happening at the org. Like, obviously, if there's any kind of experiential component that this person can get involved with share that. And um, this is a little juicy. But I'm also going to say share talking about any kind of leadership or internal transitions that are happening. I think we're not clear enough with the our community about the turnover rate, and why that happens. And I just I think it's just back to the larger blanketing idea of looking as humans as overhead that we need to keep to break down so we share that. The last thing you're going to share is that your fundraising and you're going to share why your fundraising right now. Okay, why are you fundraising, you're going to share how much you're used. trying to raise, I really recommend using the specific amount, how much how far you have to go or how much you've raised so far, depending on where you are in the campaign. And when you're trying to raise that by. So I'm just going to introduce that idea before I'm even specifically asking that this is what we're doing as an org. So if this is a good moment for that person to be involved, great, and if not, that's fine, too. So that's tent pole number two, which leads directly into tent pole number three. So if you're following this methodology, you're suddenly to the Ask with a big A, without even realizing it's happening. So I recommend at that point, but again, you thank this person, I would say, Becky, thank you so much for sticking on the phone hearing all about this. So as you know, we're in the midst of our spring campaign, we're trying to raise $100,000 by the end of June, we're trying to do 40 right now in May, and we are now at 32,000. I'm personally trying to raise 4000 of that. So you were so great. You did $1,000 Back in December, like I mentioned, is there a world in which you would do $1,500 today?
It's just so natural, right?
And then I'm gonna hold for the silence. So
that's the hard part is
you have to practice that part.
You trying to do this on email is such a different like easiness. But like, yeah, saying this after what's happened thus far, they're actually going to consider it, you know, they want a percentage. Yeah,
they will. And yeah, and a lot of my training is about well, what happens, what can they say next, you know, which we won't get into right now. But that's where we go next. And then temple number four is the wrap up. So that's establishing the next point of contact with this community member. So that's important, whether this person is donating 10s of 1000s of dollars today versus no way, get off the phone, you're going to let them know that like they're part of your community. And you're going to thank them for your time. And you're going to you're going to set up when you're going to check in with them next, or when they're going to get the next email, you know, they're going to know that this is just one dot in the line of communication that is the relationship that you're building with them. It's also a good moment, just for CRM cleanup, to if if they're game to talk to you to just make sure you have the right email, make sure you've got the right address. Even folks see if they've got another phone number they want you to have on file for them, like it's a moment. It's a moment for CRM cleanup too. Yeah, okay.
Can I just emote about all of this for a hot minute here? Like it within five minutes, because this is a five minute conversation. You have offered gratitude, you so you've done your donor relations and your stewardship, you have talked about impact. You have talked about them personally, you have connecting. And you've also attacked some of these myths that are holding us back like overhead. I mean, we have this trend right now that retention is an inside game. And the thing is, you are making it not just an inside game, you're taking it externally, we're getting fans for that. And you've walked through the entire process from gratitude to solicitation to follow up, and you've done it in less than five minutes. You've done it humanly. And I'm just sitting here Arsenio Hall style, I need to quit saying that. But that's a very Gen X thing. But it's like I am pumping my fist. Because I think the point is, it doesn't have to be overworked. It doesn't have to be complicated. You don't need a script. Because if you have a script, you're going to rest on the script and you're not going to lean into what's natural, what's human, how am I responding to this person and what they're saying to me? I shared a story before we got on about just an incredible experience I had with my alma mater on the phone, and they were fundraising for a mental health something and I started talking about my passion in that. And after a couple minutes, this kid starts opening up to me, the student caller about his mental health journey. And I just think that I can assume he wasn't ready and wasn't prepared to go there until I shared about my nervous breakdown and why I really valued these conversations. So I just want to give you the biggest fist bump and just say, I think you have dispelled myths and you've activated in a modern way that is also human. So this is why How it's Built was created because that was such a good playbook. And then when we look in the rearview mirror Kel we look at like your 18 plus years, doing this 20,000 fundraising calls, you know, resulting in over $16 million. And we're talking about micro gifts, y'all. These are like under $2,000. These are the $100 or the $50 or whatever it is catalyzing together and I wonder if you could just give the listeners some pro tips here and being you have clearly had some aha moments. And it's like give us a couple that we want to make sure people don't walk away from.
Sure. So when I would definitely share and fist bump right back to you backing in the biggest way or whatever the Arsenio Hall thing was, I'm giving that right back.
So 80s and 90s. Love it. Yes. Just Google it.
Yeah. So yeah, I'll give you a couple, I would say one is to never comment on the amount of the ask. So people have the impulse to say, I know that x is a lot, but or could you just do Y? And so if you say, I know x is a lot, but for all, you know, you're saying that about $1,000. And as they were talking to you, that person was thinking about making a $10,000 contribution. So you you just cut that at least in half, by commenting on that same thing, if you say, could you just do $25, for all, you know, that person is truly like figuring out changing around their budget for the month to be able to do that $25 gift that they really want to give. And that's not for us to comment on. I also sometimes hear people say things like, Oh, I feel bad if it's somebody who that they know that their work services, but then gives back and they're like, I know that person doesn't have that money to give, I can't take that. And I'm like, that's not your decision. That's the community member's decision. So I always say, don't comment on the cost. And part of this is from like, my first fundraising boss ever I got this from him, but was basically what I called the Blue Jeans theory. And this idea that there is somebody we can know everything right, like, and I'm all about having some donor research and really like knowing as much data as we can about the person we're calling, specifically to make this conversation as specific and personal as we can and that the ask is as appropriate to this person as we can. But even if we know all of that, we don't know what that how that person relates to money. So there is somebody out there who makes $30,000 a year, who thinks that spending $300 on a pair of jeans is a worthy investment, and something they do annually. Okay, you've got somebody who makes $300,000 a year who would never in a million years, think about spending more than $30 on a pair of jeans. So you have no idea how this person relates to money. Don't even try. So part of that and and part of that's coming from my background, I grew up like middle middle class, white cis het gal, I just intuitively was able to separate myself, my personal thoughts on money and where I was, I never I knew I wasn't ever calling Kel. So as I was calling these folks asking them for $1,500, I was never thinking about what that meant to me in my 20s. I was just like, that's what this is. So if you can take out the personal when it comes to the amount, it's tremendously scalable, it's it's, it's just, you can then ask for any amount, if you can just realize I'm just, it's just a number. I'm not going to put any emotion behind it. Everything else in the call is totally emotionally driven and vulnerability driven. But when it comes down to that specific numerical ask, don't comment on it. And don't personalize it for yourself. Way easier said than done. But that's like my, my biggest tip I can give you.
I mean, these are solid advice points.
Solid.
Just how, just how just can flow out? Just that simple calling. I feel like we've ripped together with this on LinkedIn the power of words, like Yeah, like, how can we actually remember something that was said over us 20 years ago? Because that word sticks out? You know, and so, I think that that this is so good advice for all fundraisers. I know, a lot of people listening are at different stages of their journey of growing their programs. What about as people are thinking about their mid level strategy overall, the outside of the phone? What are some lessons learned that you'd pass along?
Yeah, so I think outside of the phone, I think the big thing to remember is, you know, yes, I love the phone. It's amazing. It's also not a silver bullet, okay? Like this has to be part of your larger communication cadence. So you want to make sure that with all of your communication with these phone calls, that you were always like, referencing what else they're getting. So if you're calling I know a lot of people have a spring appeal going out right now. So to say, hey, you know, we just sent up that spring appeal letter, you're gonna get it in two weeks. And we're saying that or if they're giving now to say, I'm so sorry, the spring appeal already went out just so you know, you're still gonna get a letter. But like, thank you so much for this gift that's already in the mail. So or to say, you know, did you see that email that came out yesterday? I know that you're active with us on social media. Thank you for all of that. So a big part is it's not just about the five minute phone calls because the contact rate is really low about who actually picks up the phone. But this is really wild. Actually, voicemails are exceptionally effective. And what I recommend is kind of juicy. It's going to take you 75 to 90 seconds to leave the voicemail. But if you leave the voicemail and surely you follow basically the same arc that I already described, but do it in a voicemail and that includes folks, a specific numerical ask on the voicemail, if you do that.
No way.
I'm telling you this works. And then what you want to do is say, I'm also going to put this in an email. So it's at the top of your email box. So then same day, send them a personalized email and say, Hey, I left you a voicemail, here's what's going on. And this only works, I should make a caveat. This only works with someone who already has a relationship with your org, like a first time donor, this is not what you want to use. But if you're, you know, in a moment where you're, they're up for renewal, or it's a heightened moment of your campaign, leave those voicemails, I don't know how many people actually listen to it, some really do some really don't, or they see the number and then to then see I just left you a voicemail. I mean it it does both things. And then people some people call back, but a lot of people just go online, and they make the gift online themselves. But they see that the org and you were taking that personal time.
And I even think about the evolution of voice memos. Now it were, I mean, I got an iPhone, and there's a transcript right now. So I don't even have to listen, I can just scan it and quickly move on. And I am here for the evolution and the revolution. Phone fundraising, I believe in this, I mean, I would really love to challenge the community, try this out, and then come back to us or come to Kel go into We Are For Good Community, weareforcommunity.com. If you are not in there, please come join all of our 1000s of fundraisers as we talk about this kind of stuff. Because we want to know what's working. We want to know what the responses and yes, this is spring appeal season. And I'm like we've been talking about pilots all season, John. And it's like this could be a very interesting pilot for your organization. And guess what? It gets us back to being connected with each other. I think sometimes we just build these really intense emails and social media campaigns, and we can't see the person we can't talk to the person. And it's like, I do think that there is some humanity Jon mentioned this, in hearing somebody's voice hearing that they took the time to call you, one individual. And what did we say? I guess I'm gonna bring up all the trends from this year, you activate the one, you can start a movement. So I really would love to see how this could play out on the phone. If you're doing this drop us a line. We want to know how it's working for you.
Drop us a line.
So yes, oh my gosh, of course your dad joke. I can't, that was too easy for you. So okay, Kelly, you mentioned early on that you feel like you're a storyteller. And we value the power of words and stories here so much. And so we want to kick it to you. You've listened to the podcast, you know that we want to celebrate a moment of philanthropy, which one pulls up for you to the top of your mind.
I've got a good one. This was happening at the beginning of the spring appeal last year. So a good friend of mine, her name is Molly Thomas. She's also makes these outbound fundraising calls. I got her into it 15 years ago. And now we've worked together as like, I've been on campaigns as the consultant, as the coach, as the trainer. And she's been there as like the person who is like getting this done and this really amazing. So this time last year, it was a slower moment for a campaign with a not for profit that focuses on eradicating medical debt. So it was a slow moment. They're trying to raise for that org with smaller amount. I think we were trying to raise 50,000 that month, she called someone will say this is already part of the community. Maybe her gift was she maybe had done two or three gifts all under 5,000. And Molly called this person, we'll just call her Janet. And Janet, let's say Janet lives in Connecticut. And Janet is a little bit more of a Eeyore personality. So in Molly's words,
We see her rain cloud, great.
Yeah. And you know, really slow talker, really not clear about how she's feeling about anything, let alone how she's feeling about the org. So Molly talks to her says, we're just trying to kick off our spring campaign. It's a little slow. Janet shares that she quote unquote, isn't rich, that she lives in apartment, that she has a roommate. And he's like, Oh, thank you for sharing that information that was like, not solicited in that way. But good to know. And so then Molly shares that they're trying to raise $50,000, specifically for a campaign in a different part of the country for that month. And it's silent on the other end. And then Janet says, well, I can't do all of it. But let me look at my bank account and see what I can do. Can I tell you? Janet made a $30,000 gift she that day
No she didn't!
What?
Over the phone, nothing in our history to show there was anything like that possible. She made a $30,000 gift in cash that day. And Molly just was continuing to build the relationship sharing, I talk a lot about sharing given circumstances like where are we in our given circumstances, both as an org as individuals and being open to that from the person on the other end? She gives $30,000 that day, from a phone call.
God bless Janet.
Yeah,
Yeah, I know.
The Janets of the world.
And, for Molly for being 15 years of calling these you know, it's like, moments like that buoy you and remind you of like, this is why we go after the one we have these conversations and just keep calling.
And long game is such an interesting play here.
Yeah.
I mean, Kel, okay, we've been smiling, like, so hard on this podcast has been so good. You have such a clear point of view that I really appreciate you bringing today. What stood up for you, as we think about a one good thing to close this out? I mean, it could be a mantra that you have or a piece of advice, what would you roll this out with?
I would say that the five minute fundraising ask takes practice. And we need to be kind to ourselves. So just yesterday, I was with a client, who was just telling me how difficult it was a call he was on where the person was angry that he was that he was calling and angry that he was asking for a gift, when quote unquote, this person had already given. And he said Kel, and I let I let clients record, they can record and look back at what I say. And so if they do want to look at the transcript, he's like, I looked at Session Four with you. And I did exactly what you did in that moment. But I got nervous, I got scared. I'm like, yes, that's natural. I was like, that's totally like, you know, and I personally work with an EDI coach. And something that we talk about a lot is like getting comfortable with like the challenging sticky moments of like, like the cringe of like breathing into the cringe or like I do like yoga breathing through like, yeah, and so it's like, that takes practice to realize that no matter what you are going to be encountering some challenges in these calls. And you're going to encounter people bringing things that have nothing to do with the phone call and what's happening in their day, onto these calls. And so like that just takes practice to learn to continue to stay open and vulnerable. And also meet that person where they're at and realize that's not about you. And so that that takes a lot of practice. So I just want to say like, don't give up, like keep working at this. I also find that people frequently I do a lot of I always do follow up sessions when I when I train and like that coaching and that accountability. And just like unless you're doing it, then there's so much more that comes up. I always think about the idea that you have no idea what else is going on with this person. So they will frequently I kid you not if you meet them with compassion. So if they're like, I can't talk to you right now Kel, I need to be on this deadline for work. And I said, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Go back to your work. Go back to your desk. It's gorgeous out. Hopefully you'll be done soon. And then they're it's a 180 it's then a thank you so much. Yeah, I'm like, I'll call you back a different day. So I watch people change. I've also seen so many people apologize via email for how they treated someone on the phone. So I see that happen a lot. So I think just remembering to be kind to ourselves that this is really hard and vulnerable. And it's gonna take practice.
It's a muscle y'all. And I think it's like worthy of doing the work putting in the time. I just think each time I connect with a human being, I hear their story, I feel changed, I feel evolved as a human being. This is such a cool method to pour into that and just make it stronger. So I know there's people out there Kel that are like, how do I connect with her? How do I figure out how to do this with my organization? Tell us how they can connect with you how they can get all of these great tools and insights and where you hang out online.
Sure. So as Jon already said, LinkedIn is my happy place for business related connection and conversation and like truly, Jon, you've been an inspiration to me with all that, gotta say.
Friend.
He's the best.
So it's just my name. It's Kel Haney, LinkedIn. I love having conversations that way. You can also head to my website. That's my name, kelhaney.com. I have two free guides on there, you can look at that I'll get you signed up for my newsletter as well. One is eight phrases not to use in fundraising. And the other specifically applicable to today is five tips for building mid level donor relationships. On my website, you can also schedule a 30 minute exploratory chat with me and we can see we can discuss how we can potentially partner up.
Don't sleep on this one, y'all. I mean, yeah, Kel is the real deal. Thank you for showing up so much in service like this has been an amazing conversation that I know we're gonna reference and come back to so so much gratitude.
I'm a believer. Yes, thank you check out Kel, connect, and appreciate you educating us in the community. We are rooting for you mightily. I will be thinking about you in the theater in a couple of weeks my dear friend.
Good! Have fun with your daughter.
Go make calls y'all.
Yeah.
Yeah. Go call, let us know how it goes. Pick up the phone.
Take care, friend.
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