really good architects who are fantastic at winning work. They are non reactive with their marketing, they are proactive. Hello, and welcome to the Business of Architecture. I'm your host, Ryan Willard. And today, we've got a interesting episode, where we're going to be having myself talking. And I'm going to talk about business models for architecture practices. And we've got six business models that I'm going to cover. And these have come from the work that we've been doing as malpractice, the Business of Architecture in our consulting agency. And they're the business models that we have seen that work really, really well for architecture practices, and create a lot of profit in those businesses. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com. Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how we might be able to help you please follow the link in the information. So let's just start with some of the common issues that are see in architecture practices, in terms of their profitability. But typically, I'll see that architecture practices just are not profitable. On average, I would assume I'd have a guess here, that eight to 15% is pretty much an average performance for an architecture practice, which is pretty poor. To be quite honest with you. We when we're looking at high performance businesses, I would say anything above 20% is on the right track 30% And above is very much in the domain of the High Performance business model that we're looking for. So the architecture practices that I'm going to be referring to today, many of them are in that 20 to 30% and above range in this kind of business model. And that's really what we should be looking for. And I know Aaron Pellegrino of out of architecture very articulately said, not so long ago in a talk at the AAA about the lack of focus of architecture practices, with their profitability. And if we compare ourselves to another profession, such as lawyers, for example, we know that lawyers are very intent on making profit, and they build in at least 3040, sometimes 50%, into their actual services. So they're operating from that beginning point, from the starting point and the noises, profession. You don't mess with them. Right? You don't mess with them. And you know that it's going to be expensive. Architects, we've taken our eye off the profit,
focus, and that has cost us quite dearly. So that's the first one architect practices typically aren't that profitable. Number two, overwhelmed stress and fatigue, are quite common in the business, no financial literacy. There. Again, as I was saying, there's no focus on profit, financial reporting is missing. Perhaps it happens once every six months, once every quarter. With the bookkeeper. I often speak to bookkeepers of architecture practices. And it's not uncommon for them to tell me that they're preparing these quite the you know, important reports that the practice owners end up just completely ignoring, not understanding or haven't delved into so no financial literacy, which is then meaning that the businesses end up being unprofitable, which ultimately ends up in a business being overwhelmed, stressed out, business owners being fatigued, team members being fatigued. So the third thing that I'll often see in businesses is that they're very poorly organized. So the classic poor organization would look like the Architect at the top and then a flat hierarchy underneath. This causes a lot of issues because we will end up inevitably getting to the bottleneck, ie that all decisions end up having to go through the person at the top. The reason for this, interestingly, as an architect, is not uncommon for architects to run a business and then hire less experienced people around them. Therefore, they become the most experienced person in the business. Therefore, they are going to be pulled into every problem that the organization has or every project issue that the business has, because they're the only ones have the technical ability to be able to resolve it. If we look at a skilled entrepreneur. And interestingly, when I see architectural businesses or design businesses that have been set up by non architects, they often work very well because the person at the top has surrounded themselves with brilliant people or people who at least are more competent than they are at doing the work. Therefore, they have a team that can do and deliver the services. Whereas they have inherently they built themselves a position where they can go off and do more partner types activities from winning work to perhaps top down or very high level strategic concept work to actually the supporting the work types of activities, from HR, to business systems, to profit levers, for example, financial optics, that whole world of supporting the business is quite important and is often neglected. So the organizational structure of a business, when it's not working, will put a stranglehold, if you like, on to the profit in the business reducing the profitability of an organization. The fourth problem that I often see in a business is that we've got the practice owner or the organization itself trying to be everything to everyone. all at one time, what this might look like is the inability to say no to certain types of projects, the inability to say no, to clients are not knowing where to articulate and drive or draw out boundaries for the way that you communicate with somebody. Again, this means that your resources ultimately become limited because there's no hierarchy. There's no priority, in what should be answered. What sorts of projects should you be saying yes to? And most importantly, what you should be saying no to there's a great Steve Jobs, quote, where he's talking about this art of saying, No, I think it was Johnny Ives, the designer at Apple, who was talking about how ruthlessly focused Steve Jobs was where Steve Jobs knew, he had to say no to a lot of things. And he knew that you'd have to say no to a lot of things, even if they were great ideas, even if they were great ideas that had the potential to make a lot of profit, and a lot of money for a business. Once you've said yes to the right thing than it meant saying no to lots of other things that were also the right things. So the possibility that I'd like to create for an architectural practices, number one, that we're running an organization that the very least, is hitting a 20% consistent profit margin. And for the high performance businesses, we're looking at 30%. And beyond number two, the business has a sense of freedom and ease. There's financial fluency inside of the organization. There's eyes on how money is operating, there's transparency throughout the organization. And then you've got things like Project architects, and project managers are acutely aware of how much of the fee that they're burning through part of their KPI is making sure and directing projects so that they remain profitable. So we've got overall financial optics and a financial eye and understanding to have a business that's profitable, and one that has a certain degree of freedom, ease and more fulfillment, we're looking to try and find a well organized business. So this is one that has a clear hierarchy involved. Leadership Teams are very useful here, or using a studio unit type of structure. Where you as the business owner are not the bottleneck, there may be two other senior people that the rest of the team reports to before they end up asking every single question from you. Also, we're looking at finding businesses that have been structured with a lot of expertise that the business owner is hiring people who are more competent than they are to be able to do the work. And then we have businesses that are focused. So they're not trying to be everything to everyone all in one go. But they've actually got a very good understanding of what they need to be saying no to, and what is the priority for their organization. So we're going to look at a number of different types of business models here different ways that you can structure and organize your business to make it much more profitable. And for it to work really well. So the first one I'm going to talk about is what we call the digital micro practice. So this is a business that has got perhaps no office, it's very low overhead. You might be doing everything remotely. You're certainly taking advantage of what we call geo arbitrage. This is what we see happening a lot at the moment where people are using outsourced teams perhaps in India. We've got a business here, business architecture based in Delhi called City wise, and what they do is they have a specialist team of Revit drafters and it's relatively easy for them to expand with capacity there being a lot more trained and skilled talent there and And this office ultimately becomes like a plugin office to a business in the US or in the UK. So much more sophisticated than just say CAD drafters who are outsourcing, one of the things that we find that works really well with this, with this is having somebody at the helm, who understands both local working practices and how to give instruction to people that might be on in India, for example, as well as understanding the business practices in the design culture of somewhere like the US or in the UK. So having that kind of intermediary person who understands both is very, very key. So we have a client actually, who has an office here in the US in Washington, DC, and they also have a office in Chile. So the one of the partners is originally from Chile, so has a very good understanding of local talent, their understanding the design culture speaks the language, obviously. And they found a lot of success in being able to outsource or not even outsource but just have a lot of their production work actually be delivered in Chile. And it means that they can have a kind of very efficient core business that is working in the US. So we're seeing this more and more, it does take a little bit of practice to get it working. And I certainly think there were loads of really fantastic organizations these days well teams is a brilliant platform that has, you know, all sorts of talent that you can get from across Latin America, you'd be quite amazed at the sorts of experience that you can find using these sorts of platforms, certainly a lot better than something like Fiverr, I wouldn't necessarily use Fiverr for architectural talent. Up work, you might find a little bit of, you know, it's not my favorite go to for sure. But something like well, teams, you've got very specific architectural talent there. And the operators there will be able to put you in contact with what kind of people that you need. So taking advantage of geo arbitrage, certainly from a small organization, you'll often find that the rates that you might be paying somebody in Latin America or in India, will be going going to be quite different to what you're going to be paying in the US plus, you don't have to have the additional cost of health care and benefits. And these people will be contracting with you typically. So they're running their own organizations, you'd be paying them per project, in many cases or by the hour, you don't have to have a new seat for them in the office, you don't have to have CAD licenses. So it can be a really lightweight and efficient way of doing it. Also, the experience that some of these people have got from other places is fantastic. And we've also seen this actually been a quite a nice way of, you know, kind of contract workers in different countries who have got the longer term goal, for example of coming to the US or the UK, we've seen it before where those businesses then have sponsored those people to come over to the region that they're actually practicing in. And they can get a kind of, you know, their visas sorted out. And it can be very beneficial for both parties. I think that's a really, you know, if you're not outsourcing at the moment, that's definitely something that you should be looking at. And we see these digital micro practices, getting very good at being able to do that. Even if you're doing it domestically in the same country. It can be very, very useful. Certainly, with things like 3d rendering, that's a no brainer, people are already usually doing that kind of service. But for other parts of the design process, I think it can be very, very useful. We've had people say that, Oh, you can't do project management, or you can't do site work with people who are in different countries. See how far you can push it. We've got one client at the moment, Business of Architecture, who is operating in Florida. And then they've got another team people who were doing a lot of contract administration work and they're doing it from the other side of the country. Now I use that as, as an example. This person who's out there in California, understands what's going on in in on the East Coast and has been involved in those kinds of projects in the past. But I thought it was very impressive to actually see somebody operating remotely on the other side of the country, doing work like contract administration. So the technology is evolving. The potential is there. We also see these digital micro practices set themselves up in a way where they can be a more of a light touch service. And I think this is a really underrated way of structuring your business. So many businesses end up losing money in some sort of in one of the stages of work that they're not that good at. And I know architects we've always got this idea of can have a continuous golden thread that goes through a project. But it doesn't mean that with Hata maintain that thread all the way through a project doesn't always mean that we have to be doing a full architectural service, we've seen businesses that have focused purely on construction documentation or CA works. For example, we've seen businesses that have focused purely on concept work feasibility work, front end design stages, and then have become some form of design guardian. So they become the kind of protectors of the original concept and idea. And then let's say you're working with a developer, and they've got a much larger architectural team that they typically work with, then you become the Guardian that's protecting that idea. And then you liaise and collaborate with the larger architectural team, this can be a really powerful business model, I've done this myself as well, where I just focused on front end stages of work, this stuff is also a lot easier for you to outsource, and to take advantage of geo arbitrage and things like that. And you can get a really powerful, kind of very efficiently a very profitable business setup like this. And again, if you mark itself well, you know, working with clients who, you know, they a lot of a lot of clients are developers don't necessarily see the value as easily in the latter stages of a project, but they do recognize the value in further upfront on the front end stages. Fantastic, you can create a kind of consulting type of business or more advisory kind of design business, or one that's much more light touch in terms of how much work you're actually delivering. And the value is there. And you can get paid a lot more if you're doing it well and doing it efficient, and you're marketing yourself very efficiently. Number two, is the single sector practice, as we were saying, at the beginning of this podcast, it's very common for architects to try and be everything to everybody. And this causes a lot of problems because you end up getting been perceived as a generalist. When you're perceived as a generalist, it's very difficult for you to be able to create a large amount of value and a large amount of profit in your practice, because you're just simply perceived. As a generalist, you're simply perceived as a lower value.
technician, if you like, or you're closer to being a commodity, we want to be able to present ourselves as specialists, and experts, essentially. So we want to go deep into a particular sector or into a particular niche, it's fine to have multiple niches. If you're going to do that you just need to have a very clear marketing channels for each one. Okay? The problem is that we often see multi sector practices, commercial and marketing together, then you get perceived as a as a generalist, it's very difficult for you to be able to win any kind of meaningful, work different for some of the larger practices that you might see like a Foster's or Rogers, they might appear to be generalists, but they're actually operating in a domain of, you know, working with multi headed corporate clients, they've had their specialisms, which they built up and they've been they've got very clear, you know, transport specialist, you think a number Foster, you think of airports, okay, or you might think of commercial headquarters of particular buildings or iconic sky rises. And I think you know, that they end up being very powerful with their brand. So their brand ends up becoming the niche, as well. But that's a very kind of high level. And for most small businesses, that's not we can't be doing that. To begin with, we need to focus on a niche just to start with, and then we can gain traction. Think about Amazon, for example. Started off selling books, it is now an everything store that sells out, it sells absolutely everything you could possibly imagine. But they originally started selling books, and I believe they were kind of strange antiquity books as well, I can't remember but it was a very, it was a much more specific niche to be able to get things moving. So the single sectoral practice is a business that solving specialist problems, or a series of specialist problems that go deep into the niche that keep the team lean and experienced. Alright, so there's not a business that's got loads of inexperienced team members. This is another thing that we see happening all over the place with the generalist teams, generalist teams, you've got the architect in the center, who becomes the most experienced person in the business. They hire younger, inexperienced people. And now you've got a kind of ineffective training zone that's costing you the business owner a lot of money and ultimately doesn't actually create any more time is difficult to make profit out of. So keep the team lean. They might have multiple service offerings from consulting and advisory services to much more traditional architectural services. And certainly for more challenging sectors, something like affordable housing. I think this kind of business model was really, really good. We see a practice like Peter barber architects in the UK, for example, they do one thing, and they do one thing incredibly well. And I think that just brings out and it's just, it's efficient, it's an efficient model. And also, when you think about it internally, when we've got businesses that are very diverse, it becomes more difficult to take teams who have been working on hospitality, for example, and have them now work on your affordable housing projects, there is an efficiency when you go deep into a niche, okay, so you can do multiple niches. But it's, it's a strategy, it's a longer term strategy, and you need to better develop your marketing channels, very specifically for each niche. And it probably makes sense that you build out niches that are related to each other. Okay, so high end luxury residential, might grow into boutique hotels, which might grow into more commercial, largest scale hospitality. Okay, so they've all got a kind of the niche might be actual, actually luxury experience. So again, when we're looking at niches, I think it's very useful for you to sit down and actually brainstorm all the different niches that you could be operating in. I'm not a fan, particularly of operating in niches like modernism, or traditional building, I think those can be a little bit more difficult or passive house, for example, the reason being is it's not something that the client always understands. Okay, so I'll give you an example. I once saw an architect who had marketed their business as being specializing in liminal spaces between where water interacts with solid ground, and it was completely ridiculous the way that had been worded and the marketing around it beachfront properties, okay, that's a bit better. Because certainly see people who, who own or have got a plot of land by the beach, that would understand that, that'd be much, much easier for them to kind of get into. When you're thinking about sectors, this becomes quite useful. So you know, thinking about hospitality, or private doctor's offices, or agricultural farm buildings, all of these are good useful niches, because it gives you the opportunity to become a specialist inside of a different industry. And to become an ally and advocate for these different industries, it's also means that your prospect, it just becomes that much easier. Because now you're able to develop lists, identify a landscape very easily, and then go into, you know, a more mechanical process of being able to prospect and find clients. So single sector practices, going deep into a niche works very well to maintain a profitable practice. Now, one of the most profitable sectors that we see and businesses that and this is a particular kind of niche is luxury residential practices. And I think we some see some of the highest performing businesses in this niche. And these businesses are very good at just going deep into it. They're very good with their branding. They're very good at understanding luxury, as a experience and luxury as a niche in and of itself. They're very good at understanding who their client demographics are. They're not one of these practices that, you know, sees rich people as an obstacle to their architectural desires. But rather, they're very intimately understanding of the breadth of demographic they work with, they understand the needs and the pains and the problems. And they position themselves as advisors to high net worths or ultra high net worth individuals, for example, I did a podcast recently with a practice in New Jersey, called plan architecture. And then the owner. Dan was very intelligent because he actually hired a consultant who had previously worked with hotel groups like the four seasons and the Ritz Carlton I believe. And this consultant and what they were doing was training everybody in the team on how to deliver a luxury experience, how to pick up the phone, how to write emails, how to converse how to kind of be aware of other luxury goods Certain items and how to interact and just create an experience of luxury. Now, luxury residential, the reason why it can be, you know, very profitable is that your value is, you know, you're working with these very bespoke items, there's a lot of customization in the projects, your clients typically have the means. And if you're, if you're good negotiator, you can protect the value, you can bring a lot of additional kind of advisory types of services to the client. And there's large profit margins to be made in this kind of in this kind of world. We've certainly seen some of the highest performing Business of Architecture, clients operate and do incredibly well in this domain. I mean, somewhere like in the US, the US is very different from the UK, in terms of its wealth distribution, if you like, certainly, there's still pockets of it, but wealth, you know, there's wealthy groups and communities everywhere. And I think if you're in the residential market, whatever part of the residential market you are, you're operating in, you need to have some part of your clientele which is right up there at the top, and to start getting interested in the world of luxury, super prime property. What are some of the nuances of it historic buildings in the UK, certainly, there's very unique locations that you can develop an expertise around and become very valuable, I would certainly say here as well with the luxury residential practices, again, leveraging tech technology, so using things like virtual reality,
to create that luxury experience. And also, having experienced team members who know what they're doing all helps this very profitable niche. And before the next one, architect developer, now, this is probably one of the most desired business models that we hear architects around the world wanting to become that is becoming completely independent of needing to have clients who are outside and actually going into becoming developers. Now, it's not easy. We've done a number of podcasts on this on the past of how architects have actually done this. And there's a lot of challenges involved in becoming an architect developer. Namely, you've got to run a decent business in the first place to be able to take some money out of it to be able to put up at risk to do some of your own developments. And certainly, the clients that we've seen who have become successful and architecture, architect developers have, they've taken risk. They've educated themselves financially, they've got interested in running a profitable business, and it's become a very serious pursuit of theirs. And they've made sure that their got financial optics that are happening in the business. So we often see clients who are working in luxury residential, they, they make a lot of profit, and then they use that profit to either develop their own spec house. And that's how they get into development. Sometimes we see architects who are already working with developers, they may negotiate their fees as part of equity into a development. And you can actually start there, we've seen that happen all over the world is working with a practice here in New York recently. And they were putting in a lot of sweat equity into a project by delivering a feasibility study. And as they were going on, they were negotiating what the kind of value of the input was and unlocking the potential of this site. And rather than getting paid for it, they wanted to have some percentage of the final equity of the project, which would be way more than just the standard fees that they were getting paid for. Again, you can't do this type of stuff, unless your business is already operating. Well, we've got another client down in Miami, whose whole business operation is kind of geared towards becoming completely client free. They've done very well in terms of building up relationships with investors. They have a system where they go and find sites, they take these sites to the investors. The investors have literally they've been pre qualified, they're ready to go with capital, and they find a site. They can literally say, yes, we want to buy this site. Then they go and approach a number of the different investors and whoever says Yes, first, they get to purchase it. Then they win the architectural work on that site. Whilst the investors become the developers. In time the business model the way it's set out, is that they'll be taking some equity of that project, or they'll have capital themselves to be able to be the developer. But that's a great way of actually getting getting started, we see this quite a lot, actually, with architects who they start finding sites, they do some kind of speculative project on it all kind of proposal. And then they can take that to investors. And you've actually something called deal packaging, where ultimately, you know, you're finding a site, you're doing the numbers, you're showing the proposal, and you can sell the opportunity to a developer. This is a great way to get started in architect, architecture developer, there's, you know, I think alloy here in New York are very impressive the way that they've done it, Jonathan Segal in the US, and of course, we'll just a lot of which, in the UK, there's some great architect developer models. If you're an architect developer, I'd love to hear more from you. And this is one of my favorite topics. And I think it's, you know, super, super profitable for an architecture practice to kind of evolve and move into this. So just understanding the world of development. And working around it can be very, very fruitful. The next type of practice that we've seen that can be very profitable, is a vertically integrated practice. So this can be anything from design and build, we've seen a number of businesses do this incredibly well actually have the construction side of the organization, perhaps you've got an interiors company inside of it, perhaps you've got the procurement of furniture as well. So these will become kind of additional add ons and easy upsells, if you like to an existing traditional architectural model, and if done well, and of course, again, you've got to have your core business working really, really well. Otherwise, adding an extra bit on it to it actually just becomes more and more confusing and difficult for you if the core part of the business isn't isn't operational, but the vertically integrated so you're going from design, to build can work incredibly well, perhaps even if you're helping a client find the property. So actually property finding services or even collaborating with somebody who's got expertise in financial products for construction. So anything from a mortgage broker to someone whose expertise is in mezzanine funding, or bridge, bridging loans, or any of these kinds of exotic sounding financial products, being involved in that and actually understanding it and collaborating with somebody. And then having a kind of property finding service where you're collaborating with some estate agents, and you package this up very nicely. Now we have a very kind of cohesive
pathway from finding the site, doing the design work, constructing it. And then there might be some at the end of it kind of post occupancy maintenance services contract or actually collaborating with someone to do a no coordinating or curating an art collection. Okay, so you can be involved in all these, you don't have to have the expertise yourself. But certainly from a marketing perspective, you might be the kind of turnkey solution. And certainly with high net worth individuals to kind of one point of contact becomes very useful. We've seen it a lot in commercial as well with architects who have done can design and build. And again, there's, there's so much when you do it, well, the design and build aspects of it, there's so much stuff that can actually become really, really efficient and construction administration becomes much, much easier, there isn't such a huge amount of production drawings that are needed, because the architect and the building team have got very good communication. You know where you are with the building team. After a while you start to be able to anticipate how each other thinking, details start to get understood by the contractors that you're working with, or that you've got on your own team. It can be a very, very efficient and profitable endeavor to have these vertically integrated teams. The last one I'm going to talk about here is the collaborative practice. And we see this happening more and more. And I think this is a really, really good thing and kind of you know, it kind of highlights the power of what you can get done with a small team these days. The collaborative practice is a practice that's developing relationships with other businesses to be able to produce the final product. So a collaborative practice might be two architecture practices, and you might have one smaller one that is working with one larger one. And that becomes actually quite a nice way for certainly for a smaller organization to be able to get their feet wet on Project sectors or project typologies that they wouldn't be able to go For by themselves. So for example, anything to do with infrastructure is going to be pretty difficult for a small business. Even if that business has got kind of core experience, you know, in different organizations, we often see, you know, teams from, you know, individuals who have come from larger practices, and they've got experience working on airports, and then they set up their own business, it's gonna be very difficult to win airport infrastructure work as a new entity. So the idea of collaborating with larger practices can be very beneficial and can really help in terms of unlocking new potential into new sectors, we also see where you can have lots of small practices, maybe three or four that can can consolidate if you like, and can create a network to go and bid for new pieces of work, kind of similar to what I was talking about in the last one as well, the idea of the vertically integrated business, so the vertically integrated practice, you know, might have everything in house, or you can do it through a collaborative method of there being a collaborative practice. And again, businesses who have got good networks, who are, you know, got great marketing and negotiation skills are able to develop relationships, are able to understand, you know, client needs and client problems, ultimately, construction themselves to become very profitable. And the last one, I'm gonna say, is a bonus. One is being a consultant. And I think this is really underrated. And there is so much opportunity for architects to position themselves as advisors and consultants. And when we see really good architects who are fantastic at winning work, they are non reactive, with their marketing, they are proactive, and often we'll see them going out and talking to their clients before the client even necessarily knows that they want to have a building project, or they haven't got, they haven't formed a brief yet, or they haven't informed what it is that they're going to be doing good architects. In good business people are kind of pre empting this and developing relationships and actually developing services and, you know, advisory consulting services, which can be you know, they're paid for, and they can be paid very nicely. And they're helping clients make important high level strategic decisions. They're getting us into the table, if you like the the kind of a seat at the table where these decisions are being made. And it can be very profitable, as well, we've seen businesses who have actually just decided to focus solely on that kind of work. And they've developed a niche for themselves and its advisory model, they end up advising the client throughout the whole building project process, but they're not actually doing in delivery of the project themselves. So being a consultant, I think is a brilliant business model for an architect. We had a client not too long ago who actually became a consultant to lenders, finance lenders. And they were working basically with banks, who were lending out money to developers, and the architect had built up a consulting service that was going in and assessing the risk of lending money to that particular developer, and assess the risk as the project was kind of going through all the different phases of development. So really, really good loads of money involved in that kind of thing. That particular client absolutely loved that kind of work, and was very good. So being a consultant. And I think for now, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for listening. And we'll talk again soon. And that's a wrap. And one more thing. If you haven't already, please do head on over to iTunes or Spotify. And leave us a review. We'd love to read your name out here on the show. And we'd love to get your feedback. And we'd love to hear what it is that you'd like to see more of and what you love about the show already.
Hello, Enoch Sears here with a special announcement for you our diehard podcast fan, listen on for life changing opportunity for the right person. Have a question for you. Did you know that Ryan Willard, who's currently our Director of Education and consulting here at Business of Architecture started out listening to the podcast? Well, we hear Business of Architecture, we're looking for a new team member. And I have a feeling that our next team member currently listens to the Business of Architecture podcast. Perhaps you enjoy architecture, but something tells you that it isn't right for you or you're looking for another opportunity. In any case, we're currently hiring a detail oriented enthusiastic person to be the glue that holds our team together by managing and terminal project deadlines and communication. If you or someone you know is a spreadsheet wizard thrives on lists and deadlines and knows how to organize and influence a team and you want to learn and grow professionally as well as personally, you could be our next project manager go to business of architecture.com forward slash P M position. To find out more once again that's business of architecture.com Ford slash P M position without spaces to find out more.
This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how we might be able to help you please follow the link in the information. The views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those of the host and I make no representation, promise guarantee, pledge warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you the unstoppable
