You spend $200,000 on seeds with the hope that those seeds will grow. And you can make a profit when you sell all that back. And I think that the stress of thinking you're spending six figures on seeds with no guarantee that the money is going to come back is the most stressful and farmers have to deal with so many different external variables, mental health all comes from these issues, but like the business, the agribusiness and the political side of things, how they have no say in how Farm Bills is made with what's voted on there. And so all of those things are compounding into each other.
Over the years, American farmers have had to endure drought, economic downturn, the squeeze of corporatization and many other challenges. Yet, the mental stress of the profession of farming is something that does not get much discussion. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. The documentary film greener pastures examines the lives of a half a dozen folks who work in agriculture. It's an intimate look at how stressors, policies and climate change have affected the mental health of a profession that may be more dangerous than we realize. Today we're talking with the director of greener pastures, which is the guest feature at this year's Heartland Hawk Film Festival.
My name is Sam Mirpoorian and I am the director, editor, cinematographer producer filmmaker behind greener pastures.
So briefly describe greener pastures the film what it's about. greener pastures
is a story about four multigenerational Midwestern family farms that live their day to day lives just pursuing the the American dream as they know it, which is to have a functioning, sustainable, healthy, clean farm. And that spans across all sectors of agriculture, with dairy farms, livestock, and corn and soybeans. So basically, the film just takes a four to five year intimate journey, and follows them through their very POV perspective and lens and we get to highlight all of the major issues when it comes to like climate change food production, globalization, agriculture, from a microcosmic scale that, you know, any farmer across the world could probably relate to.
So you grew up in a small town in Indiana. So I would imagine that the agriculture industry was something that you were surrounded by. Was that something that drew you to this project? Did you have any experience with agriculture directly? Or was it just sort of something that being a Midwesterner you knew about?
I would say, you know, it's funny because I on my address, it says Indianapolis. So, you know, Indianapolis is like a top 1015 city in the nation by population size, but I was like, a stone's throw across the street from a very smaller, like rural town, which is kind of like, like, like Fisher's mccordsville kind of area where there were, you know, standing corn stock, cornfields like visibly from, you know, from where I live, so I can see him so I was definitely exposed to it my entire life. As far as having any experience, or what was the purpose behind the film, I had no agricultural or farming experience going in. It was something that you can always think about, you know, just living in Indiana, you know, they're always talking about basketball, racing and corn was are like the three Pinnacle themes that we kind of revolve and what we're most proud of here. But you know, the genesis of the story really started when my mentor, Andrew Cohn was like, Hey, man, you've done a couple of short films. If you're ready to venture into the feature world, I can help you get that started. I can help you get some some development money. Do you have any ideas. And at that point, this was in 2018. I had heard and then also received a tip from my my best friend, and cinematographer, co producer, Adam opened on about, you know, this, this situation with farmers. And then I heard a story on NPR that talked about farmers and agricultural suicidal rates, highest among any professional United States, then six, seven months of discovery happened. And that's the short SparkNotes version of it. Yeah.
You follow a number of different farmers or people that work in Ag in the movie, and they're not all, you know, it's not like they're all in the same neighborhood. They're a bunch of different states. So how did you go about identifying the subjects of this movie? And what, you know, What's that process like,
at the epicenter of the film of the movie, it was going to always stay true to mental health and suicide. You know, that was what all of these stories were about that I kept hearing that because the CDC had done a study and had statistics about the farmers and agriculture workers have been having the highest rate of suicide among any profession in the United States. So from there, it was like kind of like finding a needle in the haystack where you have to find farmers that not only are going to talk about these very intimate private details of their lives, but it's so specific and niche that they're going to have suicide correlation, whether it's suicide attempt themselves, suicide ideation, or a family member or friend had died by suicide so and so it really started with Jeff ditson Berger, who had been featured in a vise news and HBO piece in the summer of 2018, about his nonprofit tugs, which is highlighted in greener pastures quite a bit. And from there, he was the first person that reached out to me because I was like, this is the perfect guy to dive into the story.
And then I reached out to him on Facebook, and he responded back within 10 minutes, and he was locked down from there. And then over like the course of six months from August 18, to basically like January 19, like I spoke to bribe 50 to 100 farmers, some were giving access somewhere. And so for me, I just really wanted to find the right one that I wanted to focus on the Midwest, because I live in Indy, I had no money as a 24 year old at the time. So I'm just trying to do as much as I can, with limited amount of resources just to get something off the ground. I went to like some farmers union event in rural Indiana. And that's how I got connected with the farmers union people. And that's when they led me to Chris. I called Chris the next day. And then from there, you know, I'm in Iowa with Adam, a couple of weeks later shooting with him. When I was in the hotel in Iowa after a day of shooting with Chris, he sent me a Facebook message about a story about Jay.
And same thing I reached out to Jay on Facebook, it was a modern farmer magazine article about Jay and his like, historic land, because you know, Thomas Jefferson had signed the deed over to his family and stuff like six generations ago, which is pretty cool. So and then after that, I got to, you know, I had been added to a dairy farmers for Facebook group, like August of 18. And then I had tracked and unfollowed messages along the way. And there's like 10,000 dairy farmers across the world there. And Juliet had consistently wrote messages about mental health and suicide. And eventually, after, like my second or third attempt to reaching out to her, she finally responded back. And at that point, it had completed the cycle of, you know, the six, seven month period of discovery and, you know, Becky being Chris's daughter, you know, she really didn't become a profound character until like a year, year and a half into the movie. So a lot of things that you don't plan for happen serendipitously, too. Well, it
sounds like you are able to find some good connections, specifically Jeff ditson. Berger, who, as you say, was a farmer, but then took his own personal experience to try to become an advocate for mental health. These are people that were open and talking about this issue. What did you find that was the case? Or is that? Are we living in a different era now where people are more open? In talking about mental health,
I would say we're definitely getting better and moving into a direction where it's becoming more normalized. But I still know that if people talk about going to therapy, it kind of displays a sign of weakness, or like mental or emotional instability. I still feel like that persists a lot, especially in the circle that engulfs the Midwest and conversations that I've had. But I would say in Jeff's situation, it was easy because that's his life's work. With Juliet. It was also pretty easy because she was an open book, I would say the hardest was Chris. Chris and his family took a good year to gain trust and comfortability. You know, in the beginning, they wanted this out after like 3045 minutes of shooting and then at the end of it, they're like when you come back so you know, that really means a lot to have that trust and have that relationship and the most profound thing about the relationship and doing things with Chris is that he had not publicly talked about his mom ever like I think only a very small select handful handful of people knew about that, to have that access to have that trust in that relationship and to be able to put that in the film was beyond expectation are words I mean, I know going into that interviews or last shoot going into it I knew it's what I wanted. And he told us that five years ago like he told us that was that had happened and in 2018 we're not about to haven't talked about that in camera for the first time shooting but a half a decade later as we're wrapping things up. I just flat out just asked him to explain it and without hesitation he did so I think everyone that watches the film or knew about the film or talked about the film really conveys us strong level of support and how much it's necessary how much is needed.
But it was pretty smooth sailing, as far as the mental health conversations go outside of, you know, getting getting Chris to talk about his mom, you know, being a dark filmmaker, you bear the weight of the trauma and the emotion, and all the information that you're hearing from these people. So you know, myself, like in interviews and podcasts that I've done over the last probably year and a half, promoting the film, like, I've talked about how I did how I did three, four or five months of therapy. And it was really, really great. It was awesome to go to find someone to talk about things like outside of your regular friend zone. And so you know, it helped me a lot because, you know, it's, it's a heavy thing to bear. And not only is it the information, the stories you have to bear, but also like, all the other pressures around making a movie, like not having money not having resources. Living in Indiana, like you're not in LA or New York, I mean, there's so many different variables that align for you to quit, I think just finishing a movie and getting it out in the world is, is a feat in itself, that I'm just very proud of, and very grateful to have even had the opportunity. So
you mentioned Chris Peterson to talk about his mother went so when he was a child, his mom committed suicide. And I believe he found her founder was the first one to find her. Yeah,
yep, she, she died by suicide. She shot herself in the basement of their home, I believe. And Chris was probably four or five years old, and he found her side, you know, I can't even Chris is 6667. Now 68. So 60 years later, you know, just being a five year old just thinking about that. It's it's I couldn't even process that, like, still having a very particular image of your mom when she was a certain age. And, you know, I just think it's, it's yeah, it's wild. It's crazy to hear when he first talked about that.
Well, and one of the things that may have gotten her in that point was the foreclosure of their family farm.
Yeah, yep, that's exactly it. Yeah, it was a, it was around the 50s, which he talked about in the film was a bad time for agriculture, it was pretty comparable to the farming crisis in the 80s. So yeah, I mean, Chris has been around the block with foreclosures at this point as as a child as an adult. So very exemplary of like what has happened over his lifetime, both applicable to him and his peers and fellow farmers that foreclosure and getting in financial debt is a horrific thing on your physical and mental health.
You mentioned that you were surprised to find out and I was to that the ag industry has the highest rate of suicide of any profession. And there are a lot of different pressures, not just Well, obviously, everything boils down to finances and your ability to produce your crop, raise your livestock, sell them in the timeframe that you were filming this COVID happened, what was the effect of COVID on some of these families that you were covering?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of the farmers always made a joke about it. And even Jeff talks about in the film, how farmers have been joking about for years that they've been social distancing. So like, they didn't care. You know, I mean, I think a lot of them got all of them got sick, all of them. Not all of them did get COVID. At one point, I know that they really continue to live their lives as normally as possible. I know, they did the maths when they had to and stuff. And they just kept, they just kept doing their thing. I mean, you kind of have to keep America going, whether it's farming, or agriculture, being a truck driver moving products, like those kinds of industries, like the supply chain food, like those kinds of businesses have to keep going. So thank God for those people that are so resilient, so tough, while people like us really rely on them to sustain life. But they just kept it moving. They didn't really have many thoughts. They were just worried about, you know, some of them. Some of them still have their parents, their parents are all still alive. I think except Christmas, they were all worried for their parents. And then for filming, you know, we just had to wear masks and stuff.
Do you have various examples of how people have had to deal with different challenges. Farmers talk about the weather a lot, their whole day can be ruined if it rains too much. And that can mess things up. And that will affect the crops? If that's the case. And climate change has made things It seems much more unpredictable. Is there an element where you saw climate change affecting the lives of these people? Yeah,
big time. I mean, that was the biggest thing. I mean, I would say on record, 2018 and 2019 were the wettest years in American history might be for the global history. Also, I need to double check it was either American history or global history that 2018 And then 2019 What is your own records? 2018 was there 2019 Beat it. So to be in the middle of shooting all That was pretty astounding. And you see in the film that it's full on display, I mean, Jeff is harvesting in the snow in November and in December, that is unheard of that is unprecedented for someone to be harvesting in November in December.
Usually harvest wraps up well before Halloween. So to have been able to have that opportunity to shoot that capture that was pretty profound. I think, from a lot of lot of different perspectives, the biggest one was just like its sheer evidence that climate change plays a pretty significant role in like, you know, it was raining so much. I mean, even in the film you, you see him talk about, you know, how wet it is, how frustrating it is how he can only do so much in a day. And other than that, he's just like, you didn't really have anything else to do. So. Yeah, it was tough. And then, you know, in Iowa elder, he, I think hit and 2021 seeing all the damage that had on the state of Iowa and just the Midwest in general played a pretty major role in crops. And so you take out a policy on your crops, if you feel like you must, if you don't, you spend $200,000 on seeds, with the hope that those seeds will grow. And you can make a profit when you sell all that back. And I think that the stress of thinking you're spending six figures on seeds with no guarantee that the money is going to come back is the most stressful and climate change has has everything to do with that, though I think the weather is so I mean, it's the most important thing in their lives.
And I talked about this, I've talked about this at festivals to where farmers have to deal with so many different external variables, whether it comes to whether or their mental health or mental health all comes from these issues, but like the the business, the agribusiness and the political side of things, how they have no say in how Farm Bills is made with what's voted on there. And so all of those things are compounding into each other. And climate change is just one of those small pieces for sure. But yeah, very important.
Well, you mentioned the Farm Bill, Politics does get intertwined with farming. And politics also has been intertwined with approaches towards climate change. Did the people that you were filming? Did they think of climate change as political? Did they line up with any kind of ideology?
Well, as we all know, you know, everything is political to a certain capacity, and there is a strong connotation or innuendo attached to the word climate change. So anytime you hear the word climate change, or global warming, you know, you're automatically going to be assumed that you're on the left side of the political spectrum. And I thought, you know, I did a good job with the farmers finding of balance on the scale between Chris being far left Juliet being far right, Jay, being a pretty solid centrist. And then Jeff being really in the middle between being left and right. Closer to probably being a little bit more on the right. But yeah, I mean, they all especially Jeff attached the notion of climate change, and whether to political aspect of things.
I mean, Juliette would always admit, though, that climate change was real, and things of that nature. And Jeff, in the film, you know, he called it climate shift, not climate change. He talked about how April showers bring May flowers, he thinks that will end up being may showers bring June flowers. So like he thinks it's just changing and shifting through time. Which, you know, he might not be wrong about that. But he would not like outright talk about or mention or acknowledge the concept of how precipitation is higher, or the temperatures are rising, or air quality has regressed in, you know, there's obviously evidence for a lot of these things. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's just the nature of everything that climate change is political, which you know, it flat, right shouldn't be I think science is the most objective form of truth telling and factual information. I mean, science is science, like the numbers are the numbers, it could be the least polarizing thing ever, because it literally is what it is. So I think maybe soon, maybe not, I think, a strong shift, which I think we're heading toward, hopefully, with the way we adopt some things and sustainability as far as sustainability goes with agriculture can hopefully pull us in the right direction with mitigating some of these severe climate catastrophes. So
one other thing I wanted to ask you about going back a little bit to the mental health issue, and he talked about the stressors, having the effects of weather and the pressures of your investment caused a lot of stress in having you weigh your livelihood. You know, when you're talking about somebody that's operating a family farm or you know a cell phone Doctor ration, they might make choices in what they choose to invest, when it comes to their own well being most people get their health insurance, which would include some mental health coverage from their employer. If you're self employed, you have to go out to the marketplace to buy your health insurance. And that might not necessarily be something that gives you opportunities to get mental health services. Did you find that that was the case with any of the people that you dealt with? They would even have to go maybe an extra length to get mental health help? Yeah,
there's definitely a scarcity of mental health resources in rural communities. That is a very, I would say, at least from the information that I've found and what I've read. And what I've learned and discovered is that huge, huge discrepancy between what you're able to get in the city versus as far out as you continue to get the harder becomes. So Jeff was kind of somewhat of that, that beacon for that support. Obviously, he worked with other people outside of agriculture and farmers, he didn't just do farmers. I remember Jay had to drive into town, like 30 or so minutes when he was going to therapy, you know, Juliet's form of therapy was in the film. And when she would talk to her sponsor, you know, and he was driving to her. Yeah, I mean, when you're in those small towns, like, those small towns really consists of like a high V.
Farm and fleet or a Tractor Supply and a couple grocery store a couple of restaurants. And that's it. So yeah, it's tough. I mean, it just depends on where you're at, per se. I think Jeff would being in Monroe. It's only like 30 ish minutes from Madison to big city. So it's easier Chris and Becky live there between Clear Lake and Mason City, Mason City, somewhat of a big city, but like, you know, you're you're like two hours away from like Des Moines, or Iowa City or Cedar Rapids. And then j is like, closest, I mean, J is in Ohio. But the closest big city to him is like Pittsburgh, and it's like 45 to 60 minutes or so. And then Juliet, I mean, gosh, she was praying an hour or two from the Twin Cities, then she moved to Missouri, and then she was probably an hour from OKC. So yeah, I mean, when you're like an hour to two hours away from cities, like Indianapolis, there is not an abundance of mental health resources.
So you do have to rely on the better helps, and the other one and talkspace. But yeah, I mean, a lot of it's probably virtual, really, but I don't know what's going to, you know, how you how you alleviate that. I think if you have more dollars, I think if the Farm Bill allocates more dollars, to mental health resources for rural communities, or if there is a way to pump dollars into rural communities, then you could afford practices in those communities, or they could be with hospitals, inpatient situations or outpatient situation. So I think you can get really creative with that. But until that kind of stuff happens, I think the quickest, most resourceful way to get mental health help, would probably be to do it virtually through those better helps and talk spaces and stuff. But, you know, I will say like farmers, you know, they're not keen on that kind of technology, obviously, like they, they're brilliant people. But they're the kind of people that would rather be face to face, shake someone's hand and talk in person than do something virtually. So I think we're getting to that point, though, sooner rather than later, though.
So Sam, you mentioned a few times how long it took to get this project completed. When someone is watching a documentary like this, the viewer might not realize the amount of hours that you shoot and how the whole process stretches on for years sometimes. What's it like now to have this finished product? When
you're in the moment shooting, and I remember being very, very in the moment, thinking about how difficult some of the days were not difficult. Some of the times were when I was 2425 26 years old, telling myself like, you know what, this is gonna be worth it. Just remember, remember how it is in this moment and enjoy it because it's because when you're in the moment, you don't think it's you don't think it's going to end you think it's going to last forever. It's taking so long. And you know, it was like a 200 day shoot, I probably shot about 140 of those 200 days by myself over five years. So it's a lot of time, a lot of days, and you just think it's never going to end but it does. Life goes on and life's life's fast. And so I just tried to really relish and think about it. So it's great. I'm just grateful, grateful we've been able to get it out in the world. It resonates with audiences. That's all I really care about.
Well, Sam, thanks so much for talking to us about the movie and the subjects of your movie and what your journey was getting it made.
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much.
documentary filmmaker Sam Mirpoorian is the director of greener pastures. The film is the guest feature at the heartland Hawk Film Festival beginning May 8 At the normal theater in Uptown Normal. If you're interested in other interviews about arts, culture, film, agriculture, or many other topics, subscribe to random acts of knowledge on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening
