88. Finding the Courage to Ask For More - Julie Ordoñez

10:13PM Mar 8, 2021

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Julie Ordoñez

Keywords:

people

julie

donors

nonprofit

fundraisers

foundations

raise

community

world

courage

gifts

nonprofit leaders

consultant

mission

assumptions

lab

powerful

coach

story

fundraising

Hey, I'm Jon.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast,

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community, where nonprofit professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started.

Welcome, welcome, Becky,

how are you?

I'm really excited. You know, one of the great hallmarks of having your own podcast is that your worldview just gets expanded. And you find these incredible people who are out in the world pushing the envelope, challenging us in the most wholesome and humane ways in sharpening us. And we have got one of those rare jewels on the show today. And I'm just so excited that she is here,

And it's also as as much as your worlds expanded. It's like, we realize also how small the world is, too. Right? I have to you have to mention this. But

I mean, I got a text maybe two months ago from my cousin who lives you know, a state away, and it's like, oh, my gosh, how do you know, Julie? And she is amazing. And she is so wonderful. And you should you should totally talk to her. And we were already in the social world with her watching her genius, kind of play out. And so, yeah, today is the day and Julie Martinez is on our show today. And she is going to bring the hype and the courage to everyone who is feeling trepidatious about asking for gifts,

which is basically everybody, let's be honest. Yeah, I

mean, that's the that's the truth. And so that's kind of the tone we're going to set because I consider myself to be a fairly fearless individual, I will take a lot of risks. But even my first foray into major gifts, I was intimidated out of my mind. And I understand the mission of impact, I understand how I need to bring that to bear but it is just a personal and issue inside all of us in our brain. And we get inside of our heads. And so Julie is going to break it down for us. So I want to give a little bit of background on her and you can see just how accomplished she is. But her company is Pros for consulting. And today we're just going to be talking about creating future successes in that major gift world and even if you're just a frontline fundraiser anywhere, so she is a change agent, a challenger, and a bonafide fundraiser and risk taker. So she's got over a decade of experience in the nonprofit sector. And the thing I love about her is she used to be a one person development shop, she was a major gifts officer. But she was a top 1% performer at the United Way of Greater Los Angeles, and also as a director of belt development in an anti poverty organization in Los Angeles. So since then, she's just helped her clients raise millions of dollars from individuals as a coach and as a consultant. And she is on a mission folks to equip ambitious nonprofit leaders with the courage to ask for more. Julie, how the heck are you? Welcome to our show.

Excited I might just like jump right through the roof. Thank you so much for that really kind intro. And I'm so happy to be here with you both.

Well, it was easy. It's easy to give a kind intro to kind people especially when your reputation precedes you. So I I'm really curious in your journey, because you're you're from Texas from Houston, but you're in Los Angeles, tell us how you kind of made the leap across country and how you fell into this nonprofit world?

Oh Yeah, absolutely. Um, I am from Houston, ah, town, what up? I, you know, grew up, volunteering and serving. I served all the time at church. And that was a huge core value for my family. It still is. And so the nonprofit world kind of made sense, you know that that was where I wanted to make an impact and just help people and serve them. And it was 2009 that I moved to LA. Yeah, and you know, I needed a job. And I knew I wanted to be in the nonprofit world. And so I I had a friend who knew me and was like, you know, I think that you would be really good at fundraising. And there's this fundraising. There's this development associate position at this community center in South Los Angeles. And I think that you would be really good and I was like, fundraising. I was so intimidated. I was like, I don't even know that that's a job and Yeah, so I applied. And it's funny because I had to do like a pitch of what part of my plan was going to be when I get the job. And I had pitched them that we were going to raise $10,000 at our next fundraising gala. And they were like, you know that that's kind of low? Well, to be honest with you, I didn't want to come in here and pitch you something way too high. And then you laugh at me, I said that. They eventually hired me. And they were like, you know what, we'd rather hire someone who is a really great fit with our team and has similar values, who we can train how to do this job than someone who's done it before, and is not a really good fit for our team. And so that's what they did. And they paid for me to take courses at the Center for nonprofit management here in downtown Los Angeles. And I fell in love with fundraising. And I realized that I was good at it. And so that was my first gig and I was, you know, a one person shop.

God bless the organization who can see raw talent, see the hustle, see the drive, and we'll make the investment in you.

Oh, I see now how rare that was. And I just shout out to my old boss, Sondra Bryant, she is just, she's amazing, amazing woman who has been running that community center in South Los Angeles for decades. And she was the one who made that call. So gotta love it. I'm so grateful for that investment.

Well, I love that I love your story. I love just hearing how people got started. And it's so funny how we all fall. And then we really fall into fundraising. I think the missions just suck us in, you know, and we just want to, to do so much more for these missions. What I'm so curious about, and what I think is so powerful about the way that you show up for your clients and for the community that just follows you online, is that so many consultants? Can I get a show of hands who's listening, you know, go about this a way that it is just old guard, we got to do the same, you know, kind of things. And we've just, we've all worked with consultants that show up with best practices, not that those aren't bad. But how many times as a consultant said, Hey, you need to start by looking within yourself of like, who you are as a person in what are your mindsets? And how are you equipped to be able to do these jobs. I mean, we're putting ourselves in a really vulnerable position to ask people for money. Most people don't find that to be natural. But I love that. So you're coming at this from a coaching perspective, which I think is really powerful and needed, you know, and such. The time is now for this. So would you talk a little bit about that, you know, what, what changes happened within you? And how do you you know, share that and coach to your clients through those transformations?

Yeah, that's so good. It's such a meaty topic, right? I, I definitely, in my own transformation have just been surrounded. I've been very grateful, where I've had both experiences of being surrounded by support and community and people who were also asking for more. They were really ambitious and bold, and raising a lot of money. I my boss at United Way, the director of major gifts there at the time, she would call me into her office, like hey, Julie, get in here. And then I would run into her office close to the door. And then she would call a donor, and she would put it on speaker so that I could hear the conversation. And she would close a million dollar gift over the phone from someone who she had never met. And then after she would hang up, she would walk me through how she did that, and how she got to that moment. And the donor would say, you know, yes, I can do you know, a million, and there's more coming. You know, and and these were the kinds of spaces that I was in. She is just so relational and so brilliant, very strategic and taught me so much. I mean, what an amazing mentor she was to me and a great friend now. And so I think part of why you know I do what I do is because you you can't really raise a lot more and make major change and the impact that you want. If you're not surrounded by people who are also doing that. Because I've been in spaces where I am out here on my own, and there is no support. Right. And I think a lot of fundraisers deal with that. That's their reality, they, if they want to get support, they have to create it for themselves. And so, you know, you, you have to be around other people, you know, and as much as I'd like to think like, Oh, I'm so awesome, I'm so amazing. This is how I come, you know, like I've really been poured into, and I'm around a lot of amazing people. And so that's how I can continue to grow and evolve and get better and hopefully be the best.

Julie is like the consultant that tells you that you have broccoli in your teeth. I mean, you really consultants really, it feels like are so primed to come in and like tell you the best of what they can see and kind of, here's the playbook. But it's like, it's hard to find a consultant who will just shoot straight with you about how you need to kind of personally look inside yourself, and find a ways to tap into the gifts that you already have in there that are really untapped. And I think that's the genius of what I think we're talking about today. And you have these like three core beliefs. And I love that we're going to dive into them. Number one is change what you believe this is the note taking portion of it. The second one is change how you fundraise. And the third one is change the size of your impact. So I would love it, if you could like, start at the beginning, break those down and tell someone why they need to employ these change habits for growth mindset.

Yeah, so good. So change what you believe is really summed up in one main idea, which is you need to give your donors the benefit of the doubt, you need to believe the best in them. In a word, you you need to have faith, you need to have faith in your donors. I think the biggest mistake that a lot of fundraisers and executive directors and founders make is they make a lot of assumptions about people, they assume that they're maxed out that they've given the most they can give that they would be put off, if we ask them for an increase, that they don't care as much that they do this specifically for the tax write off. And that's where it ends. And frankly, you know, if we're really honest, a lot of nonprofit leaders believe that they're the ones who have a monopoly on carrying on sacrificing on giving. And frankly, it's not true, I have met so many people who are donors, they're not going to quit their full time job, or stop being an entrepreneur and go start a nonprofit. But they're going to give generously, and they give 2030 50% of their annual income. So I think that there's a lot of assumptions and frankly, judgments that fundraisers make. And so you, it starts with changing what you believe about your donors and having faith that they really will give more if you ask.

Okay, that's it, I need to I need to like pause. And this because I think what you're saying is incredibly powerful and incredibly pervasive in our industry. Because I'm such a wired, marketing, branding type of person, I see it and how it plays out in your messaging. I mean, how many people say this is what we did, or we accomplished, and it's just not even making this slight subtle shift of this is what our donors have done, you know, and through donors X has happened. And I think that that comes out, because it's

john and say, it's what we've done together. Yeah. So I talk a lot about how individual giving and major gifts is really mission rooted friendship, that you're really building relationships with people, we we like, over sophisticated, you know, we're like, we're so tech savvy, and we want to get our wealth engine and we want to get our, you know, and all that's great. But what if you just like, talk to your donors, instead of assuming the worst about them? What if you just ask them, you know, like, the best research that you'll ever have is just building a relationship with your donors and asking them questions like, why have you been giving for the last 15 years? You know, like, why do you do that? You don't have to do that. I think we make a lot of assumptions and judgments and it's tough. It's a tough conversation to have to get real with yourself, right and say, maybe the reason that I don't raise more is because I overestimate my own goodness. And I and to estimate the goodness of my donors.

Yeah, I love that we're having this conversation. Because I mean, even last week, I mean, john and Julie knew this because they were hearing me vent. But there was like an industry article that came out. That was like, why you should not be asking your employees for money right now. And that just that person that that company will remain nameless. But you know, that just went all over me. Because you're automatically taking the power of philanthropy of being a change agent of pouring yourself into your mission, you're taking that away from someone? Why would we not give them the chance and the power to say no, why would we automatically think we know what's best for them? And so I do appreciate this mind shift. That's really about maybe our own fears about what will happen and what we think are going to happen. We're writing this narrative that may not even be an accurate narrative in our head before we actually pull the trigger. That's

right. Yeah. And the one the the fundraisers and the leaders that I talked to that are really concerned about hearing no and getting rejection, or the ones who don't really ask very often, because you're afraid of something that it shows me you don't have a lot of reps. Yeah, yeah. Because if you do, right, if you if you do, if you have more experience, asking, then you realize that it ain't gonna kill you.

In Texas,

if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. Thank you, hey,

you will see that donors if they say no, it's like, not right now. Yeah, it's very rare that you're going to actually spend time with someone and ask them to invest in something that they're going to just straight up say, No, this isn't for me. I'm not interested at all, ever.

And if they do, it's okay. Yeah. So I've really liked what you've said about change what you believe? What are your recommendations on change how you fundraise?

Yeah, so this also has to do with our beliefs. But I recommend that nonprofits regardless of size, or where they are in the history of their organization, that they focus on individuals that that is their primary fundraising strategy. And that's not common, it's pretty unpopular, because people love to apply for grants. And they love having a prestigious foundation that gives to them on their website. And we love to go after corporations. And the truth is that 70% of all giving comes from human beings. So that's $300 billion a year that's on the table in the US alone. And then foundations, although they have massive endowments, right, they have these billions of dollars. They don't give like individuals give. So just because you have the wealth to give doesn't mean you're going to part with it. Right? And so foundation giving only is 17% of all the giving that's done in the US compared to 70% from people, so and then corporations even less than that, it's 5%. So that plus the stat of how many people who give give again, right is is really alarming. Right? So we talk a lot about donor retention. And of those people who give 25% of them give a second time. So all these things show me, hey, let's prioritize individuals. And then let's prioritize keeping them. Yeah. And and that's something that a lot. It's, it's, it's pervasive. So many nonprofits struggle with this. And they get distracted by, frankly, applying for grants when they don't really have any business doing that, or having this really massive corporate strategy that isn't the best move. But it's it's easier to do that. It's it's less personal to do that. And it's less intimidating to do than to go after people that you know, and invite them to give.

Hey, friends, we always say community is everything and we really believe it. This podcast is Designed to start conversations provide inspiration and hacks to help you do more for your mission. But your voice is the one that's been missing at the table. That's why we've completely reimagined the we're for good community to serve you even better. We've created an exclusive online network for our listeners, so you can connect with new friends, keep the conversations going and growing after every episode, and oh, yeah, it's completely free. Think of this network as the after party for every podcast episode and a place to turn when you feel stuck, or need help, or feedback from others who have a passion for growing their nonprofit missions to. But friends hear me this only works with you included. So come on over, pull up a chair and join us. We can't wait to connect. It's free. Join us at weird for good calm slash Hello. see you inside. I mean, I think you're so spot on. And I mean, it's like if you're gonna only have so much time, if you are very limited resources. Why would you focus over here. And it's probably because it's easy to fill out the boxes. I know, this is the application, I know how many word counts, it's got to be. Whereas a cultivation is intimidating if you don't feel like you know what to say and do but flexing that muscle. And the upside of getting somebody that's a believer, and we talk about this a lot on the podcast, when somebody actually believes and isn't that much of alignment, the what is unlocked, through beyond giving their network and their hustle and their heart and their community is so much worth more than anything that they're going to give you, you know, and so to do that on multiple is just, we're here for that. Not to diminish, obviously the good work that all the foundations are doing and all of that. But I think there's a very powerful conversation. Yeah, I

definitely think there's value and foundations. And I think that they're you know, and that works, I think about being in a big shop, we've been in a really big shop. And we've been in a really small shop. And it's like we had an entire department that focused on corporations and foundations. And it's like if you have the resources and the staff to commit to that, go for it. But if you're a tiny nonprofit, I mean, I think about all the backend work, that's going to be daunting, if you get the gift, I mean, quarterly reports and the amount of data analysis. And that's, and I don't fault foundations for wanting that because it's it is in their best interest to know that you're spending well. But I do think this concept about investing what little time you have in your believers, I think that's a great point, john, is is something that will play the long game with you for ever, you can bring them along and PS, that retention percentage is hurting my heart. I know that it's 25%. But it's like we have got to do something to systemically change our sector because that needs to go up significantly if we're going to thrive and survive.

Yes, yeah.

Okay, yeah. So we're in the last one. Talk about changing the size of your impact.

Yeah. So the number one way to do that is to ask for more. We, we ask for too little, we ask for too little. And we make again, right, changing what you believe you make a lot of assumptions about what people will or will not or can or cannot do. And you know, we've got to leave that up to them. But it's the fundraisers job, it's the leaders job to invite people into more. And if they're communicative, if they're engaging, if they keep giving, then I'm going to assume the best, I'm going to assume that they want to be closer, they want to be more involved. I'm not going to assume that if I ask them for more that they're going to be put off, what evidence do I even have that that's the case if they have a history of giving. So it's it's almost like we're looking for reasons to not raise more money while trying to desperately raise more money and make payroll and work inordinate amount of hours and burn ourselves out and have staff turnover and all of the things that come as a result of not asking for more.

That's powerful. Yeah. Well, I love that all this kind of points to you know, one of your core offerings is getting together cohorts of people they apply for this to work one on one with you, through your program, the courage lab. I wonder if you kind of you know, give us a peek behind the curtain of what happens in the lab and what is what is that all about?

Yes, I am so excited. Courage lab is my six week group coaching program for nonprofit leaders who are ambitious, and they want to raise major gifts. So they want to focus on individual giving. And in the courage lab, it really is about building your internal courage so that you can ask for more and you get asked says to me directly we do weekly group coaching calls, you really build your network of other peers who are alongside of you also focusing on asking for more. This isn't about theory alone, this is about taking action. And so you will be you know, it's a lab, right? We're trying it out, you can totally fail, it's okay. That you got to go for it, though. It's, it's your responsibility to go for it. That's the job you signed up for in fundraising. So you, you got to ask. And the people who raise more money are the ones who ask for more.

So

yeah, it's I've just noticed in my work, I created courage lab, because there are some leaders who they just need a coach. And that's a great motivator for them, they really work well with a coach one on one, and some people need. All I would say all of us need community. And the best results come when you have both. So if you have a coach, who can really pull out of you what's already there, and change the way that you see yourself, you are already courageous, it's not something you need to get that is out there. It's already here. And you just need to activate it. Right, you need to change how you see who you are, and you will raise more money, and you will increase the size of your impact. And so that's really what I do encourage lab and, you know, I would say is like my superpower, if you will, is is helping people see who they really are. And then helping them to take action. It is not lost on me. That what Julie just said, right, there is exactly what saundra did for her, like over a decade ago,

it 100% is finding the goodness that is within you and having somebody that can find the best of what is inside you that you don't know how to tap into it. I mean, I used to tell john, all the time, probably for like 12 years. While I still say it, you have no idea how good you really are. I used to say that to john all the time. And he would like make a little face. Yes. And it's like we all need somebody to like look inside and see our potential and figure out how to pull it out. And this whole group therapy concept of bringing people in, it really does remind me of group therapy and the best way, it's people being able to feel safe to say I'm scared to do this. And being incredibly vulnerable. And starting with your vulnerability at the base and building from that. And I can see how I mean we believe can community is everything. And so I can see how if you can figure out how to tap into it and get a Julie or some kind of a coach to pull this out of you. Oh my gosh, how enriching would your world become? How much more bold? Would you feel like you could step out on the precipice and do more because that's like a muscle, the more you flex it, the stronger it's going to get. I'm here for this conversation clearly.

Yeah, I, I think if you want to be the best, you it's critical to have a coach. And it's critical to have community for survival. You know, and and I want to survive. I mean, yeah, I want to thrive. I also want to be the best. And in my lifetime, I want to raise billions of dollars through my own personal fundraising and through helping my clients. And I know that that is maybe crazy to say, but I I have met women who at the end of their career have raised over a billion dollars. And so I that was how I even got the idea like, oh, wow, that's possible. So I want to talk that, you know, there, there are problems that we can solve in our lifetime. It's not that we don't know how to solve them. And it's not that they're the resources are not there. It's that we lack the courage to ask people to join us in the fight.

That was really profound. Yeah. And I also love your quote, that it's your responsibility to go for it. I mean, has anybody ever told you that? No one's ever told me that but we need to just go for it. Right.

So the risk your mission deserves,

I mean, I love The Dell foundation that that's one of their values that I keep quoting, I hope I'm quoting it correctly. But it's so, so good. And it takes the fear out when you realize that's what you're fighting for. I mean, you're fighting the in cancer, that's worth the fear that's worth the risk, like move it all of yourself, you know, my gosh.

I mean, I have to believe, Julie, that you've, you've had access to all of these nonprofits in your work? Can you lift up a story that resonates and has stayed with you about a powerful moment of philanthropy,

I was at United Way. And part of my responsibilities at United Way when I was there was managing the Emerging Leaders Affinity Group, which is their national under 40, young professionals, philanthropic network, and it was super fun. One of the favorite, my most favorite things I did in my career. And we did mixers, and quarterly, happy hours and events, a lot of events. And I would often rely on our advisory board for that group, who really oversaw emerging leaders with me to speak, to share their story, like why do you give, why are you a part of this group? Right? Pretty, pretty typical. And, and so there was this one gentleman who was a corporate executive at a really large banking, firm one that is a household name. And we'll call him Daniel. And Daniel was in HR. And he had an amazing story, he got up and shared that he got hired at this, this startup, this tech startup and help them they were booming. And he helped them to bring in 1000s of employees, okay, in HR. And then something terrible happened. And they had to lay off all of these employees within a very short time. And he was the one to have to lay off and let go of all these people that he had hired. And then they laid him off. And he really struggled. And then this was right in the time of 2008 2009. And then he struggled to find another job. And he shared publicly during this moment of public speaking in front of all of his peers, that he was homeless, that he ended up living in his car for months, that he had reached out to family, and they weren't able to help either, that he was showering at the YMCA, that he was going to the library to use the computer and struggling to find work. And that eventually he did. Right. And in this moment of him sharing this story, everyone was shocked. This was something someone who if you had met Daniel, you wouldn't have not ever thought that he had experienced homelessness. And at the time, we were raising money to end homelessness. And he was sharing his story. And for me, in that moment, I was like, you cannot judge anyone or make assumptions about any one, especially your donors. You You could look at someone you can know their background where they went to school, their experience where they work, you can research them, how much do they make, what do they give? Right? But, you know, people have so much more to them. And and I think a lot of times we assume that they agree with us or that they believe what we believe or that they've been through what we assume they've been through, you know, and you just don't know, I've just met so many people. And you just don't know, until you ask. And it was so brave of him to share his story. And it changed our entire group. And our group grew and we were able to double the number of donors that year. And I just think it was such a powerful, powerful vulnerability and in his story.

And just one man's act of bravery to just step out there. And again, somebody had to ask him to tell his story. Why are you connected to us? Why is this important? Sometimes the most important things that we can do, not even just I don't even want to diminish the ass part. But it's like, yes, we need to be brave and asking for those big guests. But sometimes the bravest thing we can do is just ask them to tell their story. And ask them to get back to the heart of why they're here. And if you can even start with that, before you make your ask, I have to believe that someone is going to feel that connection point to that gift and want to be a part of making things better. And so what a awesome, awesome story. Go Daniel.

And it just, it's not lost on me how it's just all tied together. I mean, how we're giving and allowing people to flex their courage and all these different ways. We become our best self as a society. Yeah. And through philanthropy and all of our work. I mean, this is this has been incredible.

And we're changed by it, too. I mean, that's the selfish, wonderful part of being a nonprofit that we get to bear witness to these stories. And these moments of transformation, we need to find a way to channel that and make that relevant and share those stories globally, because people will see be seen. And again, I love your point in the way you wrapped it all into the community felt affected enough by that that the community rose up and made that happen. Good for you. Okay,

Julie, we ask all of our guests, I can't wait to hear what you're going to say. What's your one good thing? It's a it's a hacker, your secret to success, something that you could implement today?

I would say that that my thing. What I attribute to my success, let's say is, is that I asked myself a lot of questions in my head. I coached myself.

I'm like, Ah, okay,

I'm starting to doubt if I have what it takes to do this. Why do I feel this way? Is that true? Do I have what it takes to and break it down? Right? Do I have what it takes to serve this person? Who's right in front of me? Yes. Do I have what it takes for this moment? Right here? Yes. what resources are available to me? to support me in this moment of doubt, right? In the people in the googling, in the articles I read, you know, do I need to go for a walk like, I think that I'm a really powerful key to being resilient and to continue to move forward and grow is that you have to be able to interrogate yourself, you have to be able to interrogate your own thoughts, your assumptions, your beliefs, how you see yourself constantly, and be willing to change your mind all the time, if you're willing to be wrong, and admit that and then guess what, you're you're less wrong now. Because you admitted that you were wrong, you know, and I think because I'm willing to just acknowledge openly how I wrong or my failures or where I fell short. I'm unstoppable. There. You can't, there's nothing that will, that I'm not willing to feel or experience or interrogate or question or change. So what is going to stop me from moving forward?

Okay, that's a very strong one good thing,

that was a very strong thing. And it is one of the words that we talked about on one of our Friday episodes, which is cognitive diversity, which john and I are talking about this at 230 in the morning, the other night, like texting back and forth while we're working. And it was like, the experiences that I have, as a human are so small in this world, there are so many other things that I need to be exposed to, and things that I need to be looking within to grow my worldview. And if you just can do what Julie said, which is a hard thing. Again, we've been talking about hard things all day today, making the big ask, you know, believing in yourself, if you can look within yourself, and do some of this self reflection, if you can employ that cognitive diversity, that there are other things out there that sharpen us, you are going to be a super evolved and an unstoppable force. How can people connect with Julie How can they you have a great courage lab cohort that'll be launching somewhere down the pike pretty soon? How can people sign up and get on the waiting list for that? And where are you on social?

Yeah. I would love for you to apply for courage lab. We have a lot of fun and we change ourselves and change the world. You can find me on Instagram, Julie m Ordonez and then you can also just go on to my website, Julie Ordonez Comm.

I'm also on LinkedIn if you want to connect there. I love LinkedIn and I love that you just said your last name out there, which Just tells me that I botched it in the intro, so I'm sorry for mispronouncing it. And also go find Julie on Instagram because she puts out some really great thought provoking content. We follow her and we think she's awesome, too. So, another little plug for you

to like, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing and for just showing up.

Yep, you're awesome. And we're here for everything that you're putting out into the world.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Come on. I'm so grateful.

Thanks so much for listening to today's conversation with Julie Isn't she awesome? So go ahead and channel some of that inner courage today friends. I hope you hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission. Every Monday we send a weekly roundup of our best content and resources to our good community. Sign up for free at weird figure comm slash Hello. One more thing if you love this podcast, would you mind leaving us a rating and review? It means the world to us and Your support helps more people find and join this community. Thanks so much friends. Our production Here is another courageous Julie Julie Confer Hello and our theme song is sunray by Remy boy has been thanks for being here.