Welcome to the unconventional leadership podcast a weekly podcast where we dive into the latest leadership news tips and strategies. I'm your host Mike supple Jr, co founder and CEO of the talent magnet Institute, best selling author, speaker, and podcaster. Through the insightful interviews with experts from various industries and backgrounds, we unpack the skills, traits and mindsets crucial for effective leadership in today's world. From embracing failure to leading with empathy, we uncover the unconventional strategies shaping the future of leadership. Whether you're a seasoned leader seeking to stay ahead of the curve or aspiring to develop the skills and insights to succeed. The unconventional leadership podcast has something for you. Join us each week as we challenge the status quo, and explore what it means to be an unconventional leader.
Welcome, everyone, to this week's episode of the unconventional leadership podcast, I have the distinct pleasure to welcome back Danielle McCombs, who's a growth minded individual friend that is constantly striving and putting out material showing that work to improve herself and deepening her understanding of the world around her after 20 year career in commercial real estate. Actually, Danielle, you were in real estate when you and I first first met, Danielle decided to pursue her passion of inspiring others to be the best versions of themselves. She's a coactive Training Institute certified coach. Danielle is one of the hosts of the podcast, the opposite of small talk, where she explores new ways to grow both personally and professionally with her dear friend Christie. Danielle, welcome back to our studio.
Thank you so much for having me, Mike. It's a pleasure to be here. It's always awesome to be able to welcome back key conversations that, you know, to be frank over the last three years, you and Christy have been a true inspiration in my life and my journey. So it's a real honor to have you in the studio with me.
So one of the things Danielle, that we spoke about last time we connected, and I think you've got such great knowledge on this. And this is the whole growth mindset. You know, many times it's hard for people to even understand what a growth mindset looks like. Or they have their own definition based on their own experiences. I would love for you. Could you walk us through a little bit about how you define growth mindset. And then we'll continue to unpack that topic.
So I think the best way to define growth mindset is your belief in your abilities to learn, not your ability in playing the saxophone or not your ability in algebra, but your ability to learn those things. So we all have things that maybe we're better at than others. But we always have the ability to learn. So if we think that, well, you know, I'm 43 years old, I've never picked up a saxophone, there's no way that I could ever play that. That's having a fixed mindset around that thing. But if I say, you know, what, if I get myself a saxophone and get myself a teacher, and I practice a lot, maybe I could be a really great saxophone player. And I don't know that that's on my journey. But it's a possibility. And I believe that if I take the time and I put an effort, I can learn anything.
How do you feel that a growth mindset has helped people? You know, having a growth mindset has helped people over the last few years?
Well, I feel like we almost didn't have a choice, right? We ended up in a if we talked about pandemic times, just for that example. Well, we were all sent home and nobody had any idea of what was going on. And so we all had to learn what is the new normal, which for a long time was changing every single day. So right, there's one day you can't go outside the next day, okay, you can go outside, but you can't be close to people, then the next day you have to wear a mask, well then don't wear a mask then all of these things. I know a lot of people you can tell I think people who had the growth mindset that were like, Okay, we're gonna learn and we're gonna figure it out. And then the people that were angry about, well, how do we not know what's going on? Well, nobody's ever been faced with this problem before, right? So even the people who we trusted elected officials, people who are in places of power, they've never experienced this either. So it's really unfair to think that they would know that and so I think people probably fared a little bit better if you had a growth mindset to say, Okay, we're all learning here and we're gonna figure it out. And being okay with the in between as opposed to, we always need to know exactly what's going on. And I think that's it
A way that we can see where people where you either lean one way or the other, and people with a growth mindset probably mentally fared a little bit better than people who didn't have that.
So if I'm in my career, let's say I'm a manager, and I've got two direct reports, and I'm hoping one day to get promoted or expand my reach and impact, and I go, you know, what, how do I? How do I one self evaluate where I am, compared, you know, fix growth, there's probably extremes to both of those things. And you and I both know that in order to continue to lead and grow in your career, the more growth mindset you have, the more opportunities abound. But how do I assess that where I am? And what do I need to be asking myself in order to keep my focus on having a growth mindset?
So I think the first thing is, is there's also places where you can have a fixed mindset and some things and a growth mindset and the other it's not an either or. So just that's just helpful. Because if you think, obviously, we want to have a growth mindset in all aspects of our life. But we can't always do that. I think sometimes, like, it's more comfortable to say like, this is just something I can't do. But when it comes to your career, I think it's important to remember where you started, right? If you're at this mid manager level, you were at an entry level position one day, how did you get to the place where you are now? You didn't know everything then. And so you learned you asked questions. You came in the first day you started a new company, you don't you don't know what goes on, right, you don't know where your desk is, you don't know where the bathroom is, like, I remember being in a job. It was the second day before I asked where the bathroom was. So like, these are just things you don't know. And you have to ask the questions for something as simple as that. But everything else too, you have to ask the questions to learn where you're going, and know that oh, yeah, I've made progress. I've learned this thing. And you could do it again, even when it's something different. And so I think it's really important to realize, what's your learning style, too? Is it I sit down with somebody? And when they explain something, to me, it's good? Is it I need to read a book? Where do you get most of your information from that it sinks in in a way? And then ask the questions in that way, right? Ask the questions in that manner, so that you're absorbing the most that you can, but always remember that we're always on a path of learning. And that's, that's the important ability is the ability to learn not what you're learning.
Yeah, and so often, jobs and times are changing right skills need to be, you know, at one point you learn them, you almost need to unlearn and relearn new things, right. So, to those listening, when you're evaluating what your organizations or teams or even of yourself that you want to do different, you know, just a few years ago, I took up cycling, and I used to as a kid, I had a BMX bike, and I enjoyed it. And then like, I didn't ride my bike for 2530 years, right? So and it was like, Oh, I'm gonna take up cycling, I'm gonna go all in, I'm gonna get the magazine bicycle. And I'm going to do all these things to learn and understand and seek inputs from others and talk to people who cycle and I really want to get into this is something that I can kind of decompress, get healthy, enjoy, explore. But we're all positioned with things we want to do that we're afraid to do that we haven't done ever or in a while, or things that we hear being asked in the world around us being asked of us that we're like, I don't know if I could learn that because I don't have the skill today. But having a growth mindset helps you in this way, right? They it helps you look at things differently to say, You know what, maybe I could pick up saxophone if Danielle can do it. I can do it.
Well, exactly. And I'll say I think exercise and any of that. I mean, I see you on that peloton leaderboard all the time, Mike. And so something that I never thought I would do either would be like being really into fitness. That was never a thing for me. But I figured that out. But I also think every time I start a workout, I'm like, the minute I get on, I clip into that bike, and I'm like, I can't do this. Right, the first two minutes are me saying that I can't do this song. And I remember Yeah. And then I remember, well, you've done this hundreds of times before. And then you will, you will do it again, right. And so it's reminding ourselves to that we've done this before anything we're doing, even when we're learning a new skill, we've learned other things before. And we can do that again. So it's just lighting up your brain in a different way to learn this new skill, but we've been learning since we've entered the world. And so just that ability is the biggest part of it.
So what if I happen to fumble across the podcast? And I'm like, I hear this growth mindset. But it doesn't seem reachable. For me, it seems like that's something leaders do, or that's something professionals do. And I don't see myself as either one of those. What would you say to that individual listening?
So I think that that's not the case. One, no, you're wrong. It's not just for leaders. Growth Mindset is for everyone. And in any way in your life, wherever you're interested in something, if it's cooking, right, I'm never thought I was a cook, and then go back to pandemic times. And I was like, huh, I got a lot of time on my hands, I can't go out to dinner. And so I learned how to cook, I ordered HelloFresh, and they give you in six steps how to cook. And for the last three years, I make a couple of meals a week where they show me how to do it. And now I kind of understand like, Oh, alright, so you need, you need oil, you need salt and pepper, you need some butter and onions, you can pretty much make anything, right? Like that's, that's what I've, that's what I've come out of it. So it's not because I'm an executive that I needed to do that. It's because I needed to eat. So I think it is something that is accessible to everyone in any parts of their lives. And to really just embrace the idea of like, there's so many possibilities out there, that it doesn't only have to be like, I need to learn how to be a good leader or a good manager. Like I need to learn how to enjoy my life.
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's, let's talk about that a great segue into whole self. Right? Again, I shared my personal example over the last few, you know, everybody's, I hope many of us has to have tried new things over the last few years. And we need to be thinking, what do I want to try next? Right? What do I want to try in the next six months, that doesn't have to be professional. So when we talk about unconventional leadership, one of the things that we look at is whole self, we want to build up individuals who think intentionally, about themselves, and those around them both professionally and personally. So let's talk a little bit about how this could weave into my personal growth or what there may be things I'm dealing with that are stressful or in turmoil personally, that I'm like, I'm gonna have to compartmentalize and, you know, separate this, but I might not be thinking as growth minded as I need to on the personal front as professional. So when I say all of that, then you know, what does that prompt you to share?
So I think we have been, we've been through a time that we've all had to either grow, or you shut down, right? We've all had to figure out like, Oh, my house, or is now my office, too. And so I feel like personal and professional got really mixed up for a very long time. But they always have been, there's a difference, right? You can, anybody can say, Yep, I work from nine to five, and then I walk out the door, and then I'm a different person. But you know, if your day ended with like, a really crappy call, right? Where you got, you didn't do this, right? Whatever it was, you're taking that home. And it doesn't just end when you walk across the door. And then especially for people who work from home, it definitely doesn't end when you just walk five feet away from your computer. So I think we need to be really cognizant of, we are a whole person, you're not one person at work and one person at home, you're the same person. And if you can say, Okay, I'm struggling here, you know, I'm struggling with my partner on this thing that's gonna bleed into when you show up to work the next day. So, and vice versa. If you're struggling with your boss, it's going to show up when you go home. So how do we really just look at ourselves as a whole person, figure out? Where are the holes? Where are the where's the parts where things get a little bumpy. And if we can focus on that you can show up as a better person in all the aspects of your life. And so I just I think when we compartmentalize we're doing ourselves and everyone around us a disservice. Because we're not honoring who we really are, we're shutting down part of who we are. And then for the people around us, when we think like, oh, well, Joe didn't do a good job with that email. So I'm going to tell him about it. But really, like, maybe you had a fight with your wife this morning, and you're still a little annoyed. Those things bleed into each other, and we can't pretend that they're not happening. And then as a leader, if you can recognize that in your people, they're going to show up better to great if we can all recognize that we're all humans here. We're not just a cog in a wheel. And so we do have lives outside the walls of our office or outside the box on our zoom call, that there is other things going on here and we can respect that with people. People are going to show up better for you. If you can say, Hey, listen, I know your kids sick. Why don't you take the afternoon off and we'll we'll regroup tomorrow. Everything's going to be there tomorrow, right? And if you can give somebody that allowance to do that, that freedom, knowing that they're going to come back and do their job better the next day because they're not distracted, right, their kids back at school, everything's okay. And they can show up and say, You know what, thanks for those couple hours yesterday, I'm gonna get done today, what needs to get done. And then they realize that you respect them as a human. They show up as better people. And I think the same, we need to give ourselves the same grace and respect.
So Danielle, if I'm, again, like, what if I'm in an environment that we really don't ask people those personal questions, or we don't really, you know, again, you may be listening to this, and say, nobody's ever really cared what's going on in my life and how it impacts the work I do, right. That's what you and I try to change so much. And all the work we do, like, let's break that, shatter that barrier. So what do I do? If I'm like, Yeah, I would like to get to know my people. So much so that I can read on their body language, that they've got something going on. And I probably need to give them a little bit of grace, or I need to ask a little bit of question, before I can determine are we at our best is our team at our best? So how do I start that process? What kind of journey would I take to even begin that process?
I think it's first and foremost, approaching people as though they're human. And approaching people as though they have other things outside of this role that they're in. So getting curious asking the questions. And I know that that can sometimes be, right, there's there's definitely boundaries that need to be there. We can't. Some people don't want to divulge everything about themselves in a professional environment. And that's okay. But I think asking the questions in a way of what are you comfortable sharing? What are you not? And, and getting to really ask questions just about who they are, what they, what is their learning style, right? What is what are their ways? And I asked this to, you know, my clients that I work with, like coaching one on one, like, what are the things that you know, you do, if I push you a little bit? What are the things that are going to help you? What do you need from me, as a coach to make you be the best, right? We all know that we have things if you talk to me in a certain way, I'm gonna shut down and walk away. But if you talk to me in another way, you're gonna push me forward, right? And so I think even asking those questions of our employees, like, what do you know about yourself that I need to know? So that I'm picking up on those cues? So that I know when this is you, you're very stressed? Okay, what can I take off of your plate? Or what are the things? So I think it's asking the questions and being curious about the people that you work with you. And then I would say, if there's the possibility of creating like, a little bit of outside human connection, that isn't just in in your zoom box, or in your office, or whatever it is, right? We all work in such different ways. Now. I mean, you're in my house right now. Right, Mike? There's a part of that has broken down some walls of like, we had people in our homes, and we had no choice about it. And so, you know, when my cat walks by in the back, that's an insight into who I am. But there's also you know, I think some people want that closed off. So I think it's just being curious and really asking for what are you comfortable sharing? And and what are the best ways that I can support you?
So I'd love that. And I love that you start with the question which I again, this is one of the reasons why we connect on so many levels, like, it's okay to tell people, I want to help you be as successful as possible. And the more I know, the more I can help you. You do not have to share everything. And that's not the expectation. So never feel like I'm putting you in an uncomfortable situation. Based on the questions I asked, but I do want to help you and I want to help your whole self. So if I ask a question that triggers you dial back, you don't need to go there. But if it's something you're like, you know what I and I hope that one day employees that we equip leaders so much that team members and employees and those around us say like, Danielle is a safe leader who's asking that not to harm me, but to help me that Mike is a safe leader that's asking me that because he actually cares. Now, some people you ask these questions, too. They've not been in an environment where they've been in a caring environment that they have that level of trust yet, and the way you're going to build trust is over time. Right? You know, Danielle, I'm sure there's been things that you've processed with individuals. I know there's things I've processed with individuals, because I deeply trust them. And I know that I'm going to be able to share something that's an Not gonna come back to hurt or harm me in any way or a career path or those around me. But those are the genuine people. It's one of the reasons why No, you're in life coaching like you're helping people through. Sometimes it might seem like the easier conversations, but in many cases, it's the really hard conversations that you're helping navigate people through, and they trust you to do so. And you're a trusting person. And they know that and they have that sense of engagement. So I just want to point that out to our audience, it takes time. And you may want to start with basic questions like, Hey, who's excited about what you're doing this weekend? Or, you know, share with me a little bit about the enjoyment, you know, how do you re Energize? What are the things that you do? If you ask me right now, I would say I haven't worked out like I normally do in the last two weeks, I would love to get some time to do exercise, right to go for a walk to do an hour and a half of peloton class stack, right? But I do that as an example. So that others around me can share that, you know, get to that point, like, you know what, Mike actually cares what goes on outside of work, you know, and all of those things. And I even mentioned, I mean, the last few years, some of my team, the things they asked for support on had nothing to do with their work life. They were new things, they were trying hobbies, they were doing languages they were seeking to learn. And that is really cool. When you get to a point where you can be encouraging, and cheering on and being a balcony person, for those around you that doesn't have anything to do with their day to day job. So one of the questions I do have, though, in the in that environment, I also need to make sure that somebody is getting their job done, that somebody clearly understands the roles and objectives for their job description, the things I need you to get accomplished, because that's why I'm hiring you for. So where's the balance? Or how do I make sure that that trust is built on the professional level? before? You know I dive into everything extracurricular?
Well, I think the word that you mentioned a lot, and I think we both said it is the word of safety is really, really important and building that can build that trust. But if you if so if somebody knows, I can come to Mike, because this is a safe place. And I can ask the questions, I can do the things that should be reciprocal as well, in a way of like, okay, we've built a safe environment. And if their job isn't getting done, I can approach them in a way that is starting with as a human, right, like, hey, what's, what's going on here, expectations aren't being met? Are there reasons, right? Or do you not understand the job? Do you not understand something here? Is there something going on outside of here that's preventing you from doing that, and just being in like, I think of like, old school, the trust tree, right, like we're in the nest, we're in the trust tree, if you could be in the trust tree, and that's reciprocal, you're going to have a better, you know, a better relationship overall. And when somebody's not living up to their standards, I know when you're in that place of safety and trust with someone, you don't want to let them down. And it goes both ways. So I think it's really being able to have that relationship of, I trust you. You trust me, and when that trust isn't there, or there's a reason why we talk about it before it's broken. I've worked for people before who I really respected them, and I really respected them as people. And so I wanted to do a good job for them. Doesn't mean I always did, but was able to also say and come to them when I was struggling to say, Hey, I'm really struggling on this deal. Or I'm really struggling in this part of my job. And knowing that I could trust that they're going to help me here. And that it's not a world of like punishment, right? Like, if I come to you and say, I'm really struggling here, you're not going to fire me because they don't have do my job.
Yeah, awesome. Awesome. So one of the things that I love about the description of the type of coaching that you do, you mentioned by following curiosity and intuition, I guide clients to live a life with intention. So for those who follow this podcast, you know, the word intentional means so much to us. But following curiosity and intuition, I guide clients to a life with intention. Can you unpack that for me a little bit?
Sure. So I would say first it's it's being curious asking the question, and when if we come into coaching and we think that we know the answers, like we're not doing our job, so it's staying curious and that's also the tagline of our podcast right to stay curious and talk big. I also have it on right in front of me. I have add up on my board so that when I'm talking to people I remember, I don't know this answer. They know the answer. And I need to stay curious about what they're going to tell me. And when you do that, you can really ask the questions you can get to the deeper place of what everybody really feels, what do they really think here? And then based on those answers, I think I'm, I'm an intuitive person, I think we're all intuitive if we can, like if we, if we can understand if you're really listening to someone, you're deeply curious. And you ask a question, and you answer, they answer that question, and you're really listening to that. And you can pick up on that energy. You can know like, okay, which direction I can at? What's the next question that I asked to get to a deeper level? And so guiding them in a way that's like, Well, I'm gonna let you find the answer here, right? That's part of coaching is, everybody knows their answer. I'm just here to help you find it. Like, I'm not here to tell you the answer. That's a consultant. If you need a consult, you want to know the answer, hire a consultant, if you want to figure out the best thing for you hire a coach, because they're going to help you get to the place where your true self is coming through. And I think I use this all the time with, I just did it with a client, of finding who your leader within is, right? I believe we are all we come into this world, we're all these perfect little beings. And then the world shows up and tells us that we're not, and will show up with what our parents tell us what teachers tell us what society tells us any traumatic events, right. And we find these things that we're trying to like cover up, because it feels really unsafe to be this person, we came into the world as. And so we create different things, right? We can call it your critic, your Saboteurs, any of these things that show up to keep us safe. But that's when we're children. And we don't have the emotional or the ability to take us out of emotional or physical things, we don't have the agency to do that. I say this to my clients all the time is you're a grown ass human being right, you're no longer a child who can't pick themselves out of a situation. So we need to quiet those voices and get back to that leader that's there. And know that our critics are saboteurs, they're there to keep us safe. But they were there to keep us safe when we were very different people. And when we didn't have the agency that we do now. And so if we can figure out who those are right, figure out who are the saboteurs that are showing up and telling us not to do the thing that don't, you know, if you don't bring home straight A's, you're not going to be loved. Right. And so then that drives us into a place of hyper achievement. When you're an adult of I need to get every promotion and every award and all of the things. And if that's not really bringing us fulfillment, it's just checking a box. That's where like when you're doing this deeper work, and you ask the questions, and find that leader, well, then what's your intention? What is the intention that you're here for is the intention because I'm going to, I'm going to get the award and I'm going to get the promotion and I'm going to, but if at the end of the day, that doesn't feel fulfilling to you. Then we need to like dig deeper and figure out like, well, what does that leader really want? And then how do we move forward intentionally to get that? What are the what are the steps we're taking, not just being overrun by our fears, but being overrun by what we want, and making intentional decisions?
So there's like this incredible amount of acknowledgement of what actually matters. And and then the confidence to verbalize it. Right? I mean, so much of what you do is helping give people the confidence and the voice to own who they are, right? And you know, building that confidence and being willing to be bold in whatever paths that says, hey, you know, this, this might be part of your past, but it doesn't define your future. What do you want to do? How do you want to go forward? Wow,
right. Where are you today? Where do you want to get to, and maybe the circumstances of life had brought you where you are today. But they don't have to move you forward. You get to make decisions of living your life writing your story from today on. And you get to make the decisions of what happens.
Well, and all of us just so those listening, like all of us have gone through these amazing, amazing amount of incredible journeys and it doesn't just it doesn't just happen once right that we need relationships in our lives that continue to help keep us grounded and focused and believe in ourselves. I mean, even so much of you know, we talked to so it's one of the blessings of doing a podcast you just talk to so many people who have so many amazing stories. From the outside view you think oh, they just laugh. They just ended up there, right? And nobody just ended up there, everything was intentional to get them where they are. And man, we all have our struggles, we've all have our battles, we all have things and fears and things that try to hold us back. And Bear, you know, barreling through that is part of this whole journey that we're, you know, helping people lead, lead differently, lead themselves differently, lead others differently.
100%. And I think that's part of the beauty of podcasting, as my favorite thing that I do is like, you get to hear other people's stories. And that's also one of the blessings of being a coach is you get to hear other people's stories and, and understand that not everybody's coming, we didn't all start in the same place. And a lot of us have things that are, you know, that we're just trying to figure out. But we all have the ability to move forward in a different way. And that's what I want to help people do is is realize their agency over themselves, and not just falling into being a victim, or this happened because of blah, blah, blah, and just letting life take you. But really figuring out where you want to go and making that happen. So good
to know, how would you define an unconventional leader?
When you say that, I think of myself as an unconventional leader, I've never considered myself a leader, right? I've never managed people. Like I've never been someone in an organization that was like Danielle's the person you go to. But I think, in my own right, I've always been a leader outside of that, or in different organizations. And when I come into something, I'm always like, Alright, so how do we make this work? And willing to take step up and take ownership of things? Or, you know, but it's also about the people, it's always been about the people. So it's always about what are the people getting by what we're doing? You know, I was recently on the board of an organization that I love commercial real estate women. And I was on the board here in San Francisco. And I don't know, my leadership is kind of like, well, how are we serving the people? Not? How are we serving the people of this organization? What are we doing to better them? What are they getting out of their membership, as opposed to, we need to do X, Y, and Z and meet these metrics, not a metrics person. So I feel like it's really just I'm unconventionally is more of a people leader rather than? And maybe that's this is my own definition. That's probably wrong. Right. I feel like you're like, No, no, do you do that but a leader supposed to be?
That's what we have? That's why we ask it. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that there's, there's so many ways to be unconventional about it. And I think you have to do what feels right for you. And that's the way you can lead the best. Like, if you were to tell me, you have to, you know, check these boxes and do this in order to lead this organization? I'm not going to do it. Or I'm not going to do it well, because it's not going to feel genuinely authentic to me. Like, I want to be like, Okay, who are the people we're serving? And how are they enjoying themselves? How are we? How are we connecting and making things better?
That's awesome. We'll share with our listeners a little bit about the opposite of small talk and how they can check out and add it to their queue.
Yeah, so the opposite of small talk is available anywhere you get your podcast, please rate and review, if you enjoy it. It is a project. I started with my friend Christine Hollinger in 2019. I will be honest, she asked me she sent me a text message and said, Hey, do you want to host a podcast with me? To which I responded about what? And she wrote back? You spelled Yes, wrong. And I was like, Okay, I guess this is it. We're gonna do a podcast. And I honestly, I was actually I was unemployed at the time. So I was in between jobs looking for a new job. And I'm like, got some time on my hands. I'll just say yes. And I think this is where I mean, doing this podcast is where I learned about growth mindset. But this project has shown me growth mindset of I mean, the two of us started, she sent me a microphone, and I was like, what do we do? We had no idea. And three years later, almost 100 episodes later, it is my favorite thing that I do. I love getting to connect and talk with other people learn about their experiences. And it's enriched my life in a way that I could not have expected. Like, there's no way I if you ask me three years ago, like what is this podcast? And I'm like, I don't know. It's we're probably not gonna do it for that long. And if you were to ask me today, I'm like, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life, because it's my favorite thing. So it's just opened my world and it opened my world into the world of coaching that that was even a thing. I think when we spoke I was still in my corporate job. Um, and talking to people like you who were coaches and could explain what that was really had an impact on on what I decided to do next. Because then I said, I was like, hmm, there's something else out there. I don't know what it is right? I hired a coach. And when I started working like one on one with my coach, what I realized was, this is what I want to do. Like, I want to do what you're doing, because you're making me see myself in such a different way that I couldn't have done without somebody's help. And I want other people to do that. So the podcast is given like, it was absolutely life changing for me. But what we get to do is the opposite of small talk, so we get to talk to like, Christine, I always joke that it's our very elaborate way of getting coaching on things that we want to talk about. Because we get to bring in experts like you and ask questions. And we just finished a recording with Diana, Elizabeth Jordan, who is an activist and an actress, and she's an activist for people with disabilities. And she has cerebral palsy. And she just really, in the last hour, I learned so much just from having this conversation of someone who has a different perspective and has a different experience in the world. And it's really just opened up my eyes to so many things that I didn't know, right. And also, just like you get to connect with people who want to share their stories, everybody has a story. Everybody wants to share it. And I think listening to those opens up something for like listening to a podcast. I feel like it's such an intimate experience, because it's like me and my headphones, like I'm sitting in the room with everybody, right? And so you can take away so much more. It's just such a gift.
It's so good. That's so good. Oh, it is such an honor to have you on today to call you friend to follow your material and your content and the conversations that you all are so curious about that feeds our soul for those that are listening. So thank you so much for joining us today. And thank you for such a great authentic conversation.
Thank you for having me, Mike, and I'll see you on that peloton. leaderboard,
I look forward to the next opportunity. Thank you for listening to the unconventional leadership podcast. We hope you gain valuable insights and inspiration from today's episode. We invite you to join us on this journey of exploration and discovery as we continue to uncover the unconventional approaches and strategies that are shaping the future of leadership. Stay tuned for our next episode. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review the unconventional leadership podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, being an unconventional leader means embracing new ideas and strategies to drive growth and innovation. So keep pushing the boundaries and challenge the status quo. And we'll see you next time on the unconventional leadership podcast.
