All right, cool. Thanks for joining us, Natalie. I'm looking forward to diving in and hearing about your experience before and after Beyond Web Copy. So thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So tell me, well tell us a little bit about you and what you do and your business.
Yeah, so I've been writing copy as a freelancer for about two and a half years now. Before that, my background was in like journalism and PR and stuff. But pretty soon on. When I started freelancing, I kind of discovered that I really loved web copy. So that's kind of been like my, my thing for a couple of years now, I often work with like designers on certain projects. But yeah, for me, I do a bit of everything. But my main offer, I guess, is web copy brand voice guides as well. So
yes, you're the brand queen, and your website is so sparkling with your own voice, it really shines through and can tell, you're really good at what you do. So what was your experience of writing? Because you focus predominantly on web copy? So what was your experience of doing that before Beyond Web Copy?
It was definitely, like a lot, as I think a lot of people start out a lot of intuition, like purely intuition. And that's when it actually kind of feels easier. But as I started to learn more over the last couple years learning copywriting formulas and Copy School and stuff, learning about VOC, I think it started to like, get into this place where I was, okay, first, I was like, all in intuition. And then I was like, all in I've kind of felt felt boxed into formulas and templates in a way. That makes sense. Yeah, kind of going through a phase like that. Yeah, so I mean, like, just in chorus, after chorus, trying to like fill in the gaps to be able to approach websites from like, the big picture, I'm getting less and less happy with my copy, because I would like be putting in, for example, on a homepage, a section just because I don't know, I've been boxed into like a template or a guide that said, I had to do that. So yeah, I want them to be able to like, use my own knowledge of the bigger picture to create something that made sense for each specific website, each client goals and all that good stuff. Which then I wanted to kind of realise that I would spend a lot of time trying to figure that part out, you know,
what was that? Like? The figuring it out? What would that Could you walk us through how that felt?
Yeah, so yeah, I would like I think it was pretty good early on, like kind of doing like a rough, kind of like skeleton draft. But even at that point, like, I wasn't like full on writing paragraphs of copy from the get go of the project, I would constantly for like, a full day or two days, like be moving them around. And just like, second guessing myself, I suppose if I was putting the right section in the right spot, or the right piece of Voc in that section. So then, by the time I presented to the client, like it had reasons for it, but I wasn't like as competent as I felt like I could be or should be for like saying why that section? Was there, where it was. And occasionally, the client would question it, or they'd ask like, it was there too much, like, too much info on this section, before we get into like, the package, inclusions or something like they wanted to, like get right into the selling. And so like I knew, like, there, there was reasoning behind why I wasn't like, just blatantly like, Oh, here's the packages, you know, for example, I didn't feel like I had like, the full picture to explain that. So little bit of like confidence, not so fun stuff. And then there's a lot of time that I didn't think I needed to be spending that much time on that part of it. So
So why did you decide that Beyond Web Copy was for you? Like, what was the tipping point where you were like, Okay, I need this because you've done copywriting courses before.
Yeah, yeah. So I think it was realising that I knew there was still a missing piece. Yeah, like I learned a lot. I knew there was still that missing piece. And I knew like user experience was super important. I didn't know everything it entails. But I knew like, there's no way that like, you can keep writing websites without keeping the user in mind. And I'm obviously missing something if I'm spending all this time trying to figure out the structure of things are second guessing myself. So yeah, that that actually, there was a client kind of seen before that was like, you know, this would be the perfect or perfect time to have that piece right now. So yeah, that was kind of it. And, yeah, I also just wanted to know how to like map out the grander scheme of the user journey. And it's just so tailored to web copy. So I was like, This just has to be like, the piece that I'm missing to answer the little questions that are stumping me still
Can you tell me about your experience inside Beyond Web Copy?
Yeah, yeah. So for one, I was like, genuinely excited to dive into each module as soon as it came out, because the content was like so directly applicable to what I was doing. And yeah, kind of going back to what I was struggling with, like, it really did fill all those little gaps in either my process, which I didn't even realise were there, or my knowledge, and I could just apply to project right away, I think that was one of like, really awesome things. Like, there's no filler, like, I could go through a module like turn to a project immediately, and like, have something really tangible that I could apply. And to answer those, like time saving and competence, questions that I or problems I was, you know, living with. And then the calls as well, were really valuable, like seeing your brain on like, actually, like, brainstorming UX problems and stuff like that, like in the real world. Whether it was my project question or someone else's question, like, it was just like a really creative, but struck like, it's the perfect meld, I think between the two sides of your brain, you know, it's like, getting that lens on things was super, super great. And I also just something kind of random, I really appreciate like your focus on, like, inclusivity, from a variety of lenses in the programme, like that really stood out as well.
So what was your favourite part of the programme or the most impactful for your business?
content wise, I think would probably be the mapping user journeys part like from the beginning. Yeah, good, having like a really solid process and structure for me to think through where the the prospect is coming in, and where we want them to go like that really stood out. And like I was something I could implement right away. That was kind of in the this phase of a project, right in the middle of it. Where I was actually collaborating with the designer. And both of us it was kind of like a sticky website, trying to figure out what needed to go on what page. So I was like, Oh, my God, this is perfect. The designer was like really stoked that was able to bring that knowledge and like get clarity on things when before it was like this confusing jumble of offers and services and pages. So yeah, and then just from since then, I've had a couple projects start that have been able to implement that part of it.
And what's the response been from? Have you shown any of it to the client?
Yeah, no, it's been all positive. They've loved that. They're like, this just makes a lot of sense. This is clear, there's a reason why we're doing what we're doing. So yeah, then that feels really great. And actually, most recent project I did, which I guess is the first full one since the course. I'm sure it's it's partly a credit to the course, like the revisions have been like, very easy and not just laid out as straightforward. And my client was happy. And so that is like an awesome feeling. And definitely due to everything we've learned for sure.
Amazing. Yay, makes me so happy. All right. How did you feel you've touched on this a little bit, too, but how did you feel my guidance was helpful in Slack and in the live Q A's?
Yeah, yeah. So I might have talked about it a little bit already. But just like seeing how your brain works, like I said, it's UX perspective, like our calls are like a real websites or real sticking problems, like, makes you kind of think, like, you get the real, the specific situation information on that. But it's just like, kind of makes me think going forward, like what would Susan do and like, and like future projects going forward. So like those Q and A's were super, super helpful, like, for like, specific problems, but also just like soaking that in that you can, like, apply that stuff forever. And then the content itself, like the thing, you broke things down into, like super digestible chunks. So like I said, like, take a little snippet. And apply it right away. It was never like overwhelming. The q&a is in the slack group are insane. Like, are like asking questions in the slack group. Like you're crazy. Like, your responses were super, super in depth, like throughout the week in between calls. So it's like, whatever you have a question like it's gonna get answered, like, super, super early. Like, and there's no like real limit almost to, like, well there probably is a limit, but I
No I don't think there is.
Like, it didn't feel like it. So yeah, like just any questions you have like about project, your business processes confidence, like you felt super, super supported on like, all the different levels. So it was great.
So you've mentioned that, you know, you've got the time saving and like the lack of or the the easy revisions that you're getting back is a massive one if it reduces stress and time, but sort of what kind of results are you seeing now that you've applied it to a few projects?
Yeah, so you have as my process and been able to bring that to designers, which they're impressed with I actually also to raise my rates a little bit, the end of the year, definitely like taking that into account. I was like this is gonna happen. So that felt really awesome. Yeah, confidence is obviously a huge thing. I think we talked about that as well. But just like having that knowledge to back up, what I'm writing when I'm presenting is a big takeaway. And actually, that last website I worked on with the course was start to finish. I did that much faster. I feel like actually, I know, I pretty sure I timed it. With that tweak to the process, like with some of the, the upfront work before I start writing, like, it was a quick like, and that was one of my main goals going into it like not that I need to like, be the fastest writer in the world, but just having a process and a structure to kind of streamline things. So that was huge, has been huge. And then also just like a process thing, because we'd have talked a bit about testing copy and checking in about results. So I haven't like fully implemented that yet. But I have like a more solid process to kind of check in with clients about results, like down the line after the website has been in the wild. So I can hopefully have even more like really tangible results and stuff for clients to talk about. So that is gonna happen.
That's amazing. How much because you said you timed it, like, could you give a rough estimate of how much quicker you think your process is now?
typically, like, I swear, I could spend like two full days trying to figure out at least two full days figuring out the structure of the pages, but that was down to like one very manageable work day, maybe shorter. So
Yeah, just because of the Yeah, the way I was thinking through things was more streamlined. So less waffling. You know,
if you were well, you are probably talking now directly to someone who's considering the course and going through all these videos to decide if it's right for them. So I guess do you have a message to share with those people?
Yeah, yeah, I would probably say like, in hindsight, looking back, I think if you write web copy, it's almost like a lot of this stuff you just can not know in a way. Like, I just think from by approaching websites from that user perspective it just takes you from writer to strategist and that is like a huge thing for you, your clients, your work. Yeah. And if you've been writing about probably for a while, like I was. And I was like, waffling back and forth of if there's enough to know about UX if it's like worth the time and energy and everything to like dive deeper into it. Can I kind of figure it out on my own? But I still got a lot of valuable out of it. And it questions are answered all the little gaps and questions I still had. So yeah, if you're a web copy, you have any questions about your process or structure or you want to be more of a strategic person instead of just a writer or whatever, I definitely would recommend it. 100%