Welcome to when mothers lead a podcast created by mother for soulful grassroots collective of single mothers. I'm Heidi and I'm Lisa and we will discuss how you can be a part of this movement and what the world will look like when mothers lead
see the mother's green
you to when mother's lead matriarchy now a podcast of Mother full. My name is Heidi house.
And I'm Lisa Woodward.
And we are super excited to have some beautiful guests with us today in the struggle for Reproductive Justice in Ohio. A big battleground for repro. We have Laura Sullivan and Molly ramp Thomas from just choice, you can find them at just choice.org. And Laura and Molly, if Laura, do you want to tell us a little bit more about yourself? Yes,
I'm Laura Sullivan. I'm a licensed independent social worker, mom. I have been a mom to a lot of kids. But I have two biological children, five and one. They teach me all the time. Um, and I love the work I get to do. Being a working mom is not for the faint of heart. But I'm fortunate that I love my work. And I get to break down systems that oppress and marginalize people, and try and think of creative ways to rebuild them and creative ways to support those who are in those systems and victimized by those systems every day, I have a background in trauma therapy. I have a lot of my own personal hurts and pain that I bring to this work that, um, don't. They're, they play an influence on my work. There's no way they wouldn't. But I've also gotten to learn and heal from a lot of my hurts in that way. And for that, I'm very grateful. Thanks for having me.
Can you share with us a little bit about yourself? Yes. Hi,
I'm Malia Thomas. I'm the founder and CEO of just choice, which was formally choice network. I started my work working with clients at the YWCA. At that time I was overseeing all of their core programs. And I'm so sorry, guys, I have all these messages.
Oh, sorry, Mama.
I just have to really quickly answer this. I'm sorry. And then I'm gonna start I'm so sorry. Hi, you, Lisa.
Okay, so the work right. It's like
I don't know. But I also like, Okay, I'm just glad mine's not dinging because that was like, I don't know how to turn it off. If it were Molly's they were also coming up at the same time as my text messages. So I was like, Yeah, call the teenager backup to give me some tech support.
was speaking of speaking of pitch, it's y'all are like in the day to day direct service fight with moms and families right. So this is what that looks
like. Yeah, I know. I'm so sorry. I need to date has been literally insane. We have been fighting for a pregnant moms pray to people because they're up. Most of them. We're going to be helping you access abortion. And a couple of our choosing adoption. Some are parenting, literally since would you say Laura 7am Today we Yeah, the one thing that will be cool that's happening that you guys don't know yet. Heidi was texting me last night but I ended up having to jump onto a panel after you were texting me but we are going to be going into the YWCA downtown. They're going to be welcoming us. We're going to announce it on November 8. So we the YWCA is offering a space to be able to receive pregnant people of Columbus. And all of our mutual aid donations will be going there. Our actual stuff will land there now. So yeah, we're just trying to Yeah, storage, the office space as well, temporarily. So it's temporary, but a badass move to the Columbus community to say like, yeah, we are going to be there for our people no matter what happens. So yeah, and also, you know, just going back to going back to me, back to I, so it's, it is sort of like this. It's beautiful that it's coming back to the fact that I actually started choice network, which is now just choice 13 years ago, after my work at the YWCA. So it feels full circle to be landing there in this like, insane moment. But yeah, so I started, the reason that I started choice network at the time was to offer to, because I lose, I learned that abortion was a pro choice issue. And adoption was a very pro life issue. And to the people who were entering the Family Center, or who are entering our women's residence programs, really just needed, like a common ground space to go to a lot of them needed support and parenting their kids. And so I was just trying to understand the system more, ended up approaching an abortion clinic about a clean up adoption on site, and they loved the idea. And so from there, I sort of began to build from that. But what really sparked the work and made us go ahead and do it was a woman named Rolanda. And Rwanda, the clinic called me and told me, you know, hey, I know you could talk about adoption, we have someone here for you. She's too far along for abortion, and, but she cannot parent her child. So I went to go meet with her at the abortion clinic. And when I shut the door, she burst into tears, and said that she could not have an abortion, she had just escaped. A really abusive situation abuse was her entire past. And she was already raising a little girl. And she really believed that she would lose that vote to the foster care system. So what I did, actually, she was too far long for Columbus, but she could still access abortion in Cleveland. So I called the doctor in Cleveland and asked them, if they would be willing to do an abortion for her. She had no money. So they had to do it at no cost. At that time, there was no abortion fund Ohio, or white women's ally. And he said, Yes. So she drove to the parking lot that night. She called me from her car, we spoke throughout the night, she was in such peace, ready to have the procedure in the morning, right before she went in for a procedure. She called me again, she was so full of gratitude, and hope and just ready to get it done and get back to her daughter. And when she got there, she was told that Columbus actually measured her wrong and she was too far along for an abortion. So at that time, you know, I just told her, she called me in tears and said, I cannot move forward, the abortion. I'm too far along, I'm having a baby girl. You know, my girls are going to enter the system. And I just said to her, what if we made an adoption plan, just come home, we'll figure it out. We'll raise them together. And at that time, I was single, had no intention of having children. But I fell in love with her. And so I believe that the universe made me go through that situation. Because I tell everyone that's a work that I do is because of her. It's an honor of her. She's the spark that started it all. You know, when a person hands you their baby, and you agree to parent them together, it will change you forever. And so I, you know, once he said to me, I'm as good of a mom as you. I just don't have the community and resources that you do. And you know, it was it is the truth. She is an incredible mom. And so that's now what we're doing. I mean, essentially, I I just got thrown into doing adoption work. My intention was really to be options. But I got recognized in the pro choice movement for doing adoption, where I centered pregnant people where it was about them and not the baby and not the adoptive family. And so I did that work really, you know, when we got recognized really quickly by the pro choice, movement and LGBTQ movement for being a safe place for pregnant people to come to do specifically adoption, but then after roe fell, and after I met Laura, we decided Then we were going to do something different and really dig back into that mission that we that was dreamed of 10 years before that, or however long it is now to be a safe place for people to come to be welcomed with arms wide open, and to like offer them true access. And that, you know, maybe that would mean a person like Rwanda could actually parent their child. And, you know, since then I, you know, I have been with Rwanda through abortions, and through our adoption plan together, she did end up getting a children's services case, and she lost her kids to Children's Services. Today, she's actually an abortion storyteller through pro choice Ohio, telling her story just about what parenting looks like, having experienced it all, so I'm so proud of her. And I hope that Laura and I are creating something that makes her proud. I just like, seriously, she, she is why, like, we just keep going every day, you know, like, I think what Laura was saying, it's like, every person we're helping, they're all individually different and beautiful. And their circumstance is so you know, we just we want them to be received. And seen. We've been saying like, we, we do not want to save them, we want to see them, we want to be with them. And whatever we can do in that moment to help them is what we want to do. And just maybe that will mean that more people will be able to parent their children, they'll be able to parent and community, just maybe we'll do our work good enough that there will be no more need for adoption, you know that? You know more? And I say that, if we do it, right, we won't even have to have adoption surfaces, you know, except for the very, very, very, very few people who it's right for. So yeah, I think in and helping people access abortion is work that is so honoring to it's it like it's a huge piece of our work. Parenting and abortion are the biggest pieces of artwork, I would say. And then for those small people that we are doing adoption plans for, it's really, I mean, they deserve all of us, because we need it to be what's the word Laura, we need it to be perfect for them, you know, we need it to be we need everyone to come correct to the table. Yeah.
It sounds like you too, you know, really experiencing and in solidarity, truly in solidarity with mothers on the margins. And the we know, because of the work that we do, and because of our lived experiences, that those spaces those that mothering under those conditions is is really you know, it's a it's a desperate experience. It's a it's a lonely experience. It's it's, there's so much fear, there's so much so much toil, you know, and tribulation. So I know Laura, you mentioned wanting to talk more about that, like moms on the margins. And there's so much that we need to do as a society to, to change this the state of motherhood here in the United States. You know, we could talk about that for days and days. What do you think? What I know it's it, there's a lot of struggle, and we're all in this struggle together. But what is giving you hope right now, like what is giving you hope? What is keeping you a bit going on those days when there's not enough money and there's not enough resources? And
yeah, I'm glad you asked me about hope first, because there have been lots of days recently, feeling very hopeless. But I would say that the fact that I I'm going to do two things here and because Molly made it personal so I want to take it back to that to this question, because that is also part of the hope of why I do this work. But hope for me has it shows up in the team that I get to work with so the team that we have it twice just feels really good to sit in this mess with every A day because it's really hard work. And we are so supported. And each other, and then just different community partners, folks, like you all being able to just have those conversations, make those asks and be able to ask you and say yes, when you ask, but just being able to navigate these systems, with, with other people who care other people who give a shit and who are enraged, like I call them and I say, Hey, this is what's going on. And they're like, Yeah, that's really messed up, like, this is how we can help. And then, no, I'm constantly asking people for stuff and money and not being told no, every time that that gives me hope. And the other piece of hope for me in this work is I get to, I get to honor my own mom. And her life was life was not full of hope. But I, I get to be that and the pregnant people and parents that I work with. So when my mom became pregnant with me at 16, as a result of being raped, she didn't have options for support. She didn't have anyone to anyone to talk to first. But like, like, options weren't a thing. And so different. Me, what gives me hope is that, although I've went through some shit, because when somebody parents, a kid that they didn't want or ask for, and that they see as an everyday trigger, like, That's not easy. But now, the hope in that is, is like, now I get to do this work. And I get to be what my mom didn't have, I get to support women to find in them what they need to be able to parent their kids the way that they want to. And we can't do that without each other. Like, I'm not special, because I get to do that. But it's special because it exists now. And I get to help women access the supports they need. And, you know, I think that I don't always know the place to say this. But I know like the other side of the coin, the other side of the movement, the aunties, you know, they have people who are like me, who like, they're like, Oh, my mom was raped, and I'm so glad that she birthed me. And I'm like this, I'm devastated that my mom had to parent me. It fucking hurts every single day to think about what that was for her. And I think more people need to recognize that. And I'm grateful that I'm here like, I'm sure. But the reality is, is like none of us should get to decide that for her, whoever the her or other pregnant person is.
Yeah. Wow, that's really special.
And I'm happy to answer questions if there's space there. Because sometimes I can just talk and I don't want to talk too much. But if there's anything you want to pull out of that, or say, You didn't answer my question at all, I'm happy to
do like this. I feel like there's a really strong thread in for all of us individually. And collectively, here on this call of like, what some someone said, I've heard of this put like pain to purpose, turn your pain into purpose, or turn your wounds into wisdom. Yeah, you know, and I think I think, you know, that's all. For me, I feel like that is all we can do in this world where mothering is truly, you know, what did they say? Relaxing into motherhood, you know, is really only reserved for the privileged few.
Yeah. When do I start to relax?
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's a through line for all of us that like, we are alkalizing, you know, and we're also changemakers in the world because of, because of what we've been through, right, and saying, like, no more, you know, we don't want this for our daughters. We don't want this for our sons. We don't want this for the future generations, and for the earth in general. So I'm really grateful to be, you know, in friendship and partnership with with you both, and all three of you, actually. So thank you for showing up every day. And it is it's wonderful to be able to connect when we have those times when we're we're struggling with hope or we're struggling with like, continuing and, and I know we're not we're not giving up and we're not quitting, so it's nice to be together. Yeah. What tell us about the YWCA and what your vision is for what's going to happen over there. I mean, this This is a brand new, this is a brand new development. So this podcast will be coming out probably end of November. So, yeah, you'll be there potentially.
Yeah. So, um, I really think we just knew we, Laura and I have been filling it in us. I mean, as you guys know, I mean, well listen, with mother filling us we, we share the same funding battles? So, you know, it's been hard because do we want to fund mutual aid? Or do we want to have a space to be able to receive people, and, and that's been hard for us, you know, we want to pay people's rent before we're paying rent, for a space. And so but so. But we also know, the one thing about our work is that we're trying to compete with crisis pregnancy centers. And what we know is the state of Ohio has funded them at $16 million $4 million, going to marketing budgets. And so we're working to be a direct counter to them. And I just feel like Laura and I have been feeling in our bones that we need to at least have a brick and mortar space, you guys have been to our office in Worthington, it's not it can't, it's not meant to receive people, we needed to be able to do that. And then the other thing is that we do have access to donations. And so we needed a space to get those because, like you guys, we don't want to be spending money on baby clothes. We could be using it to help pay someone's rent or pay their court costs or pay for them to have transportation. So we were we were turning down donations because we didn't have anywhere for them to go. And we in our dream is to have a space where it's like asking you shall receive. There's like, I know, you guys have seen the crisis pregnancy center report that purchase Ohio put out. But you know, they talked about how crisis pregnancy centers have baby Buck programs, where where people have to do a parenting class in order to earn diapers, and we are there, forget it all, you know, no, all of that will be gone, Not on our watch, Ask and you shall receive whatever we have will be given, you know, through us to them. And so we just were really feeling even though when we're talking to people, they're like, are you ready for space, we're like, you know, we aren't ready to take give up mutual aid money. No, we're not in especially now. So when I spoke to the why I just felt like an organization like them, and was a leader like Liz Brown, to be able to, I felt like it was an opportunity for them to take a big stance and for the, you know, the power that they hold within our community, both in their space, but also in their deep connections and all the people that they touch and help. I just felt like it was a bold move for them to say like, we know there is an urgent need, and we are going to help and actually do it in action. And so when I presented the idea, delish, she loved it. And we just got confirmation last night, and then a board member donated the money, we need to move our stuff and our donation safely. So yeah, we're, you know, I just think, like, you guys, I think that we're starting, we're starting to see that people are saying, It's time for new ideas, you know? And yeah, I'm telling you, Heidi, I'll never forget when you were standing, speaking to what I would believe is a panel of white men. And you were told that to stop using the word radical and you said, radical means from the root, and we will unapologetically be using the word better for reach, find me, because we are trying to break down these DMS systems, bring them to the very bottom and build something brand new. So I yeah, like we find so much inspiration from you, too. And your fire to always do what is right, and to speak truth all the time. I mean, to be in this work with you guys is an honor for us. But yeah, so that's how the wind came about. And I just think I hope it's true for mother full as well that like one yes will lead to another yes will lead to another yes will lead to change, you know,
it's true. So, before we go further, I just want to talk about CPCs because you mentioned them a couple of times and there may be some of our audience who don't know what that is. Yes, it's pregnancy center. And I know I've heard some really, really horrible stories from moms in Africa. activ actually about what happened to them when they were pregnant, and they needed help, and they went to crisis pregnancy center, and not knowing what it was, and what they were getting at this crisis pregnancy center, hoping that they would get help. But instead, they actually received harm. So if you could just share with us like, the stories, the the whole thing, how does that happen?
So I'll just start with crisis pregnancy centers, being state sponsored, pretend pregnancy clinics are fake clinics, that act as prolife conduits, traps, really, to pregnant people, they position themselves in a way that it is the only option that a pregnant person can find and they ultimately their goal is to strip them of their right to make a choice. And they trap them sometimes, like physically, by, I'll go in this room, go ahead and change, take your clothes off, put this paper gown on, then somebody will be able to see you. I can't decide to leave if I don't like what you're saying when my clothes are off. So that's like a physical trap, or let me interfere with you in the parking lot and say, You know what, come right in here. This is where your appointment is when you think you're going to an abortion clinic, but you're actually going to a crisis pregnancy center, then, you know, with just misinformation online, if I am a pregnant person searching for resources on Google, I am going to find a crisis pregnancy center first and easiest. Like that's just a fact, in the way they're set up. They have this open door policy most of the time, so I can just walk in. And as a person in crisis, I'm probably going to go to the place I can get in first, especially if their website then they say that they'll talk to me about abortion, because if you talk to me about abortion, then you'll probably give me an abortion. And that's just not true. So those are like how you get in and how they trapped people. But then once you're in there, just the shame, the shaming language, the blame, the the insistence on sharing your sexual health history and the insistence on, you know, you have to agree to not have sex outside of marriage, like, I'm going to provide you with actual sexual health information, or condoms, because we just believe you shouldn't be having sex. Yeah. So just and then just this idea that is continually perpetuated in our society that people don't have what they need, because they're somehow lacking and this complete void of awareness, about like, maybe its society, right? Like, we know that poverty has worse health outcomes for kids, most times than prenatal drug exposure. But what are we doing about that? Nothing. And we have these crisis pregnancy centers that don't do anything to support people to get what they need, and to get out of poverty, and they're funded by our government funds. And if I need to be more clear, I'm happy to provide more detail, but I think, yeah,
and I know, y'all have some stats on that, you know, Ohio, because we have a pro life, Governor. Correct. And who recently publicly, you know, even did a giant ad about, you know, issue one is wrong for Ohio and, right. So there's, you know, we're up against a lot. I mean, can you give us some stats about the CPCs and what they're doing specifically in Ohio, and also in comparison to access to abortion? What that looks like, I know you guys have that probably somewhere close by? Yeah,
I can. So there's I the last count 124 CPCs. They're not super regulated. So like, questionable but 124 to nine abortion clinics, Molly? Yes.
Nine clinics in Ohio. We have
nine abortion clinics in Ohio, and not even all of them can do abortion to the full extent of the law right now. But there are 124
CPCs. Do we know how many are in Columbus?
Oh, he do. I
do in minutes? Yeah.
I think it's like 18 to 18 or 18? Yeah. Well, it's hard when we're giving abortion clinics, it's hard because some of them are just only doing medical abortions. Some of them are doing surgical abortion but not to the legal limit. So the one step that we do know for sure is there's 124 CPCs and only one Just choice that we didn't know. The real one. Yeah, we are the real one. So,
freshwater Okay, so in Columbus alone, and I mean, make sure it's just Columbus and not anyone surrounding. So in Columbus, Delaware, Circleville. And Aetna, there are 11. Living. So in the immediate Columbus area, there are 11 crisis pregnancy centers, according to the crisis pregnancy center map. In Cincinnati, where I am located in or just twice a second office is opening up.
Second, why there that you're partnering with?
No, there's a community. There is a nonprofit in my neighborhood, I live in a really cool neighborhood, and there's nonprofit, some environmental church, they're turning it into a community health center with a garden and other stuff. And she's giving us an Office for free.
So cool. I was a teen mom, and I would have loved to have mother full and support from you guys in my journey. So this is awesome. What did
that look like? Lisa? Like when you became pregnant at 17?
Yeah, I became pregnant at 17. But prior to that, I had two abortions and two miscarriage. So I was in a situation where I couldn't really talk to my my mother about it. Because she was really into going to abortion centers and being outside and saying Don't go in there. So that's how I was raised. Seeing that. And I ran away a lot, because I didn't like, you know, how it was being taught and my house, so I didn't have I kind of had to just figure it out on my own. Didn't have many people to talk to you to help me out. So that's why I feel like I was really fit to, you know, come into this work, because of the struggles that I had to deal with at a young age.
So can I ask you a question? Yeah. Okay. When you had to get when you got abortions when you were younger, were you under 18? Yeah. Yes. Okay. And the law that did you have to? Did you have to go through the bypass process? Was that a process then? I could be? Um,
what, um, can you give me a definition of that?
Yeah. So the right now we have an Ohio we have a judicial bypass process. So if I am a minor, under 18, and I would like to get an abortion, but I cannot safely communicate with my parent or my guardian. Maybe I'm in children's services custody. It's just for whatever reason, the process, it's very hard. But you have to go through and get an attorney and talk to a judge and a judge can grant that for you. And you can do it without Oh, okay. I
didn't. Okay. So that was all I was. Thank you. Yeah, it was it was really early. I, I believe I got a pill. Okay. And then I had one when I was past 18. So it was it looked different. Okay. Um, yeah. So
another myth about kids just being able to just get abortions because they want them and their parents will never know. Like, it's would it be helpful to explain the judicial bypass process? Before? Yeah. So each county does it different. But it's done in the juvenile court. And so you have to get an attorney in typically, like the court, you know, if you're, if you can figure all this out. You get an attorney, they represent you for free. You go you have also a second attorney, a guardian ad litem, and you have to talk to them, then go to your day one appointment, go through that whole process all of this without your parents knowing right, because you can't let them know. Then after you do that, you go to the judge and you have a hearing where you are not I like you're there physically, but the judge doesn't know your name, you're just a person. And you get asked a lot of questions about the decision you're making and essentially, you know, your maturity is assessed. And this judge determines that You aren't mature enough to be able to make this decision on your own. without parental consent like you're you, you've been informed enough, you're mature enough, you understand the consequences, and that it can granted. And then for that moment, and in that instance, only, you're allowed to be an adult and go to the clinic and get your procedure without a parent knowing,
can I tell you something, an interesting counter to that you can sign permanent surrender for an adoption as a minor without parental consent.
Or without you mature enough. Because if for some reason, if you were determined to not be mature enough, you would somehow then in the next, whatever, however, many months then be mature enough to raise this child, you aren't mature enough to make this decision?
Wow, this might not be a fact. And actually, Lisa, you would know this. I think that it is because once you become a parent, even if you're a minor, you're considered an adult. Is that true? Lisa? Because then you can access all the services?
I think I'm not sure.
I don't know. I don't know the exact reason. But I,
when I delivered, I was 18. So yeah, um, yeah, but I do remember when I got pregnant. Before the one I actually delivered, I was kicked out the house. So I was homeless. And I know I had to work with Ohio jobs and Family Services. My mom wrote a letter saying, you know, I'm not living here anymore. And I was kind of just on the streets and living with the boyfriend. So I can't really remember back that far. Yeah. But, yeah. And any moment,
you're centered, and adult, so just as it is in that moment, so it's not like I have a kid now. So I'm 17, I can go, like sign my own permission slip to go to a field trip, or I can go sign my own, like consent to get my driver's license, like, I still need a parent to do all those things. It's just in those moments related to that child. Crazy, not to talk
over you, Lisa. Sounds like such a process. Like if you're, you know, parents don't approve of your abortion if you can't talk to them. And you know, you can't talk to them, or they're going to kick you out of the house. So you don't know. Either way, like, that process seems daunting to have to find an attorney. Like who helps
to be daunting. Yeah, it's doing exactly what it's meant to be.
So it's helped like, hopefully, you know, you figure out as a teenager, like you find us or you find o wa or amo, or you, you think to call the clinic on your own first, which right now, that's really hard to do, because they're busy. And then they would tell you, Okay, where do you live? This is the attorney you need to call because we like each clinic. Each find like all of us, like we know which attorneys do the judicial bypass in which counties. But that then it's like, all dependent on, you know, the judge and what their feelings are. And I want to say it was Texas that recently, there was a story like in the past year of a teenager, who was told by a judge in Texas that she wasn't mature enough, because her grades weren't good. And so she was denied. Wow. And then it like followed her parenting journey.
Speaking of parenting, I just want to uplift. You guys are supporting me, supporting me now with respite service, which is amazing. I mean, when you look at parenting, our moms, our single moms would love to have just a respite person just to help out. And I have a special needs daughter. And I was I just needed more people to help and Laura and Molly found a family that adopted us. And so now we have a bigger network, and they're amazing. And they help me and my daughter with whatever we asked for. And she goes and spends weekend with them or like tomorrow, they're picking her up from school because I have to do I have an appointment. So it's like another set of hands. And it's amazing. It's amazing. So I thank you.
I know community community community.
Yeah, I gave my daughter to the village and I'm thankful that you guys helped create that. I'm
thankful you trusted us and everyone deserves that. Like,
Laura, can we tell you one quick story of someone we're helping right now? Because they just think it's so powerful, or can you tell it? Yeah, we'll color Yeah, right now.
No Oh, yeah.
Yo, yo, yeah.
So we have, we are really fortunate to have a person on our team, her name is Mariam. And she was a birth mom like 19 years ago. And she is really cool. And she's always done really cool work. And it wasn't until recently that she was like, You know what I want to step into this space. And she also is fluent in Spanish, she teaches English as a second language. And she does all sorts of immersion stuff. So we've been really fortunate to have her on the team and have her language services. And so we were, we worked with someone who was trying to get an abortion that, you know, they did a lot of stuff to get through the hoops and to get to the appointment. And they, when that person got there, like the protesters were just too much. And she, because she had to travel for the abortion, she didn't have a lot of subs, she didn't have any support and like, and she has, she has she's parenting also, as we know, most people in this situation are. So we got her back home, like with the help of another community organization. And through that conversation, and Mary, I'm supporting her so deeply. Mariam has learned so much of her story. And we know that like she, where she's currently living, she doesn't have any support. She just kind of landed there on her travel from her country that she came from on foot, by the way with her four year old. Yeah.
Three pear trees,
trees with a four year old, like, can somebody watch my kids so I don't have to take them to the grocery store. Right. And so she does this, protesters, you know, if you can do that, and then protesters scare you away, I think that just speaks to the messaging and the shame that's just exist. Yeah. So in talking with Mary, um, it became really real, like, Oh, this is an actually where you have support. So we're gonna get you to the state where you have support. So we've been able to pull money together, and we're able to relocate her to a state to be near her sister where she'll have the social support she needs. And also that state has a little bit longer of a limit. So if she does decide that she ultimately does want to pursue abortion, again, like we have her appointment set up, she'll have her sister that can go with her. But we wouldn't have known any of that if it wasn't for like, the way that she trusted us only because Mariam could speak to her in a way that made sense and that Mary was able to share her story with her and this person doesn't know what they want their outcome to be. But what she knows now is like, she's cared about and loved. And she's not alone, like, crazy journey and Maryam said something else today. And I feel terrible. I don't remember it. But it was like, it just crushed me because I was like, I hate that we feel people feel so unsupported that, like us just being nice. On the other end of a phone call is like, Oh my God, no one's ever been this nice.
Really, that's
messed up, like, I've never met you in person, and I'm your person. Like, that's so messed up. We all need people like us. Like, we need a village and we're building it and might be on the phone and text message and this like underground system that we have as just moms and women, but we're doing it and people deserve that support. Yeah.
As crazy, the amazing the circumstances that there's an birthing people are forced to, to do this work in, you know, just the the circumstances, the lack of resources and the lack of village that our, you know, country has created, you know, in inside of capitalism, white supremacy, you know, colonialism, it's just really something that I know, we together are working tirelessly to combat, you know, as far as just every day direct direct care, mutual aid, community care, and in every way that we can, and, you know, we're also working to change these systems, you know, and it takes a long time, you know, the fight for childcare, for example, has been going on for decades, you know, yeah, the fight for paid family leaves been going on for decades. You know, all these things. The fight for Medicaid for all has been going on for a long time. And so, you know, we need each other in the struggle to remember why we're here and to stay fortified, encouraged to stay strong, and so we're super grateful to Know you and to have you on and share your story and your mission. And our our final question. Final question or final question. podcast is always, you know, the song that is kind of that I that I wrote called when the mother's lead. It's really about a call to the vision that we share of the world. When mothers lead, you know, when the mothers lead, what will that world look like, like and for us, it's actually the world that we live in right now inside of our own hearts and souls in our lives like, we are leading and we are leading with, with all of these beautiful visions. And I I just want to hear from you both, if you could dream with us, for him for a moment. What does he like when mother's lead?
Scarcity doesn't exist. And everyone feels feels supported and safe.
Yes. I think I would just add, because I love both of the things she said when mothers lead. We will know because we will all be free. Yes, yes. Yes,
that's it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ian and Molly ramp. Thomas. We love you. People can find you at just choice.org and thank you so much for being you and doing the work that you do and for joining us today. Yes,
thank you.
Thank you. We love you go.
Love you.
Love you.
Thank you.
I'm seeing here the mother see. I feel the mother's green
