Welcome, everyone. Welcome to our fifth session of our training. And we're doing a check in some of us have already checked in. But we were on Ruth, Ruth, do you want to check in? How was your buddy call anything? You're about facilitating a circle this week?
Yeah,
yeah. Great buddy. Cool. With Linda, and we had a mixture. Had an exchange of chatting and reflecting back using the process. Can you hear me? Okay?
Yes, we can hear you. Everyone, if you'll add our to your name if you want to be recorded or exit. Oh, good. Go ahead, Ruth.
Yeah, I'm using a different computer. And I don't know if it works if it's going to work. Okay. If If I run into trouble, I will just go on my phone. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I've had no, I haven't had a chance to do, buddy. No, but I will next week. Yeah. Yeah, I'm all good. Thank you.
Thank you, Ruth, if everybody will put an X next to your name if you don't want to be recorded, or an R, if you don't mind being recorded. And Alex, would you like to check in? How was your empathy Buddy Call? Did you facilitate a circle? Yes, hi,
everyone. I did both of my homework tasks, I had a really great buddy call with Bill and feel like I got lots out of it. And just really value the opportunity to learn from people who are much wiser than I am on this topic. And so I feel like that's what I got out of it. I've also done a couple of empathy circles, small ones that have been a part of it two or three people and just kind of been in your eyes and other people with the concept and how it works. And really enjoyed that too. And got a lot out of it. It's been a good week.
Wonderful. Thank you, Alex, does everyone know how to go up in the top right hand side of your square? And click on the three dots and change your name? Add an R or x to your next to your name. Okay, good. Let's see check Ian. D.
Right. Hello, everybody. Um, hi. So I had a great buddy Cole was with an across the pond. We checked in with each other and chit chatted for a bit. So that was good. I, for my facilitated that this week, I didn't connect with people or someone one on one, what I did was sneak into Larry's empathy circle. And he let me go ahead and take over and do some of the facilitator chores. And whoever recommended this book. Thank you. I enjoy it. It's got a lot of resources and quick tips that I can share with clients. So I really enjoy that. And then the survey that we did, I was asking about certificates. And I did see that there are certificates that are certainly available. So that's that I got that question answered. So good to see everybody looks great. Thanks.
Thank you D. BJ, we're checking in if you want to add an R next to your name if you don't mind being recorded or an X if you don't want to be recorded. All right. And are you ready to check in? No, I
am not sorry. Okay. I'll
come back to you. So I know DJ is not going to be here. We're missing George. What about Karen Johnson? Anybody here from Karen Johnson. I can text her. Is there anyone else we're missing?
Okay, BJ, would you like to check in or do you want to still get yourself situated? Apologize. Oh, wait. Thank you. Okay. All right. No worries. Hmm. So I guess we've all checked in at one Do you want to?
Okay, great. We're doing great on on time. So yeah, so this session is a new session number, we usually have five sessions that we're adding today is a is a new session, and we're not going to be doing any feedback is this 10 minutes or so that we usually use for feedback, I wanted to give a little bit of an explanation into the restorative empathy circle process. And hopefully, everybody saw all the material that I sent out, I sent out a link to a restorative empathy circle I did with extinction rebellion, that gives a little bit of a sort of a background, about the the process also, I sent that this page. And hopefully you have a copy of that, because we'll be using that. And actually, I will put the link into it as well into the chat, because you will want to have that handy when we're in the breakout circle. And then also in the I made a little overview video that kind of laid out what we're going to be doing today. And so I'm just trying to prepare, you kind of say things over several times, just so that kind of, you know, it's sort of clear. And so it were with the basically, with the empathy circle, I see it metaphorically like a container, which is what I showed in that video, that the container of the empathy circle, you know, has processes and rules and agreements, basically, that we all agree to it, what we're creating is a container for in the metaphor was water, you know, a bucket with water in it. And that water, I would say is an empathic way of being. So an empathic way of being is we listen to each other, we, we have, you know, there's a sense of connection is created a sense of understanding everyone feels heard to their satisfaction, it creates a sense of trust, a sense of, you know, constructive dialogue. And so that's the container we have is the empathy circle. Now, as conflict goes up, you know, it's like creating more pressure into that, into that bucket or that container. And what you've been doing in, in the, with the challenges, you've been sort of plugging up the holes, you know, somebody doesn't quite follow the process, you've got a, you're, you're bringing them back into the process and into that empathic way of being. But as the conflict in a circle goes up, you kind of need it helps, it's helpful to have more tools and practices to do sort of a preparation, and to kind of create a stronger container. And in the, in the metaphor that I had there, I kind of showed a leaky bucket, you know, the water is kind of coming out, you're patching it up with those challenges. But then if you have a really intense conflict, we call that a restorative empathy circle, the process that has more steps to it, to hold that conflict. And the example for the extinction rebellion group in Santa Cruz was sort of the beginning steps of some of the extra steps that we add for restorative empathy circle. And one of them is if there's a group that's in conflict, we just listen, we listen to each of the people individually to give them a sort of like an empathy Buddy call, so that they just feel heard and understood. Because they're, you know, feeling all tense and upset, because this conflict, you listen to them, that reduces their stress gives them more capacity to listen, and also develops trust in you, because you're just offering that listening. And you'd listen to all different participants beforehand. And then you bring them together in a circle. And there's some extra steps to the circle process that you can do in a restorative empathy circle. And we're not going to go into that, because that's really going to take, like I said, like, you know, six weeks to really describe the, the process of the empathy circle and how to sort of practice it. We do base this on a process called restorative circles, which was developed by a guy named Dominic barter. And if you do a search on restorative circles, Dominic partner, you'll see there's a whole kind of a process out there that is sort of articulated. And if you can kind of kind of go deeper into it. And the difference between this what we're doing here, and let's say restorative justice, I think our Jennifer, somebody held up a book with restorative justice, justice. Now restorative justice, yeah, there we go. This is not restorative justice. This is restorative empathy. So for example, if you have a family and you have a family conflict, and you say we need restorative justice, it sounds like there's some But he's at fault. You know, it sounds kind of like a trial, it's, you know, it has a heavy feeling to it. But if you say we want to restorative empathy circle, right, we just want to restore empathy, which is a sense of connection and understanding it, it's much, you know, softer, more caring sort of a feeling to it. And so what we're restoring in the empathy circle is not just this per se, but empathy, we want a family that has an empathic mutual listening, mutual support, mutual care, mutual love, environment, and, you know, having empathy circles, you know, to do that, to kind of help with that can can help a lot. And so we're just in our, in session before, Jonathan was just talking about all the great benefits he got from the from the empathy circle process. And that's what you can bring into a family. So what we want to do is in this session, is we want to just do a simple, sort of a roleplay, of restorative empathy circle, we're sort of setting the context that you've explained everything you've done, the pre circles you've done, you know, all the, the setup the how to use, if you saw the, for example, in the the extinction rebellion, one in the How to that I do, I set the stage, that this is a restorative empathy circle, and I say everyone will be heard, this is about fostering care. So I kind of set up, it's a little bit different than just the straight empathy circle kind of gives a stronger container. And so so that's kind of. So that's just an example. Hopefully, you saw saw that, too. So what we're gonna do is, we're going to go into how you have this handout, and there's the link to it there in the chat. So we're going to go into a circle with ideally four people, hopefully, it's going to even out here, there might be one with just three people, we'll see. And there's going to be a trainer in each one. And then we're going to have three participants, and the participant, the trainer is just going to keep the time. So we're going to divide the time by three. And then each of you will have 30 minutes for your section you'll do you'll facilitate an empathy circle for 25 minutes, then have five minutes debrief. And you'll you'll have as a participant in the conflict, you're going to select one of these roles as a sibling. So the scenario is, you've explained everything to everyone, you're ready to start. They everybody knows the process, and everybody's going to stick with the process, there's no challenges, all we want you to do in this session is get a sense of intense circle, and how if everybody follows the process, you know, it's gonna it will, people will start understanding each other and the process will be worked out. So just a little bit of a taster for that process. So as a participant being choosing one of the siblings, you know, feel free to be a little bit emotional. I think somebody in our session, Linda said she was in a circle, somebody started crying, and she was like, Oh, my goodness in one of these role plays. And then she said, Are you really sad here, and she said, I'm just role playing the crying. So that was a three, feel free to cry if you want to cry, you know, whatever, or be angry, but stay within the process. And if you're a listener, reflect back, you know, just reflect back what you're hearing. Let's see. So, again, there's no challenges. So the scenario is that this family is in conflict, about the inheritance, the parents had passed away, the mother just passed away. And there's a $300,000 inheritance and the family is going to try to decide, you know, who gets the inheritance, and they're all mad at each other. They've got a family relationship, kind of,
they've just had conflict in the family, they don't get along. And they're kind of in general, you have personal issues with all the other siblings. So we're gonna have sibling number one is I'll just refer here with what the choices are. You're going to choose or you sibling number one, you took care of you taking care of the mother, you spent a lot of time and energy taking and caregiver, and you feel that you need you should get the full $300,000 inheritance, sibling number two took care of the Father and put a lot of time energy money into taking care of them and he passed several years ago, and you feel you should be compensated for that. And it should get the full inheritance, the sibling number three loan the loan the mother money to live on. And so they feel that they should be compensated for that the full inheritance. Sibling number four was gifted the inheritance by the mother but nobody heard that. So it's all explained here. And number five is if you have a scenario that you'd like to roleplay say I like to do sibling five and just give a sentence or two scenario of what you're going to be doing. Don't go into a long explanation. Just give a short little explanation of of that. And so I think that's pretty much the basics, I was going to just open it for q&a. So Ruth, go ahead and start with there any question?
So is the participant, sorry, the facilitator, also a sibling?
Yeah. So you're going to be in a circle with with one trainer three participants, the trainer will always be a sibling. So and then the three participants, one will be will be a facilitator once and then the rest of the time will be a sibling. So if that, does that make sense.
When you're facilitating you're not taking on a role, you're just facilitating.
Yeah, and it's a facilitator. If you saw the restorative circle, the priest circle, I set the context. And as a facilitator, I am sort of an advocate for a culture of empathy. So in the circle, when it became, you know, I'm one of the participants as a, as a facilitator, people can choose me to speak to, and a lot of times family members in conflict, they just don't want. They want to speak to the facilitator because they know that they'll be heard better. They don't want to talk to their siblings, because they got all these issues. So they may speak to the facilitator. And as the facilitator, as as it's when it's your turn to speak, sort of advocate, or at least I tried to advocate for empathy. I say, Yeah, I'm so glad everybody's taking part in this. I really think empathy is important in a family. I really, and and during the mediation process, you'll see that the first part, people are just kind of talking about how they feel now, they'll start talking about an issues later. And at the end, there's sort of a phase where well, what do we do now? And then they start negotiating what they will do. And in that phase, as the facilitator, I'm always advocating for Be sure to include empathy circles in your family as a regular process, for example. But yeah, so that's, anyway.
Yeah, Vandy, just to clarify risk points. So it's become the sencilla Tater. I'm not adopting a sibling role. But I would be the first listener. Right? It's imitating
Yeah, you're not a sibling. If you're the facilitator, you're not a sibling, you're like, I think, in our before we were talking, Jonathan said neutral. But I don't see the facilitator is neutral. They are an empathy advocate, you are an advocate. So you're not neutral you're advocating for for empathy is how I see it. So I don't think we can ever be really, truly neutral. But we can be saying, hey, empathy is important. And I'm here to kind of create an empathic environment and how about we all you know, start supporting, you know, empathy? So. Oh, Jonathan, I see your hand.
Thank you. I think this is a very valuable training lesson. And I think we'll know I'm going to know more after going through it as a facilitator, and that's what I'm concerned about. I'm not going to have the opportunity because the siblings have been instructed not to break the rules. And it's almost as if I want them to break the rules in order for me to jump in as a facilitator to correct the situation. But I'm gonna follow as best I can. The procedure.
Yeah, that you know, we, we want to ease into this in baby steps. So baby step is, is just knowing that the circle can hold a conflict if people are angry with each other. So be sure to be a little angry or a little emotional, you know, bring a little bit of that into it. But we don't want to overwhelm you. So like, if we do the full six week training, then we would, you know, go into, you know, dealing with challenges like that, but we don't want to, we don't want to bite off too much in this. This is just sort of an intro sort of a taster. Yeah, that answer your question. You still had your hand up, but
it is it fair game to say? See, this is where we're getting into dangerous territory to correct someone because they've used a nasty pejorative.
They don't, it's fine. If you want to use a nasty pejorative, you don't correct them. If somebody uses a nasty pejorative towards someone just reflected back say you're an idiot, you're, you're useless. Just reflect back this is you're you're saying that I'm an idiot, and I'm useless or whatever. So all you're doing is reflecting back what what's being said, between two siblings, between two siblings or they can say you're an idiot too. And I happens that a facilitator facilitator people will start attacking you eventually do Yeah. Lender last year she is a mediator and I'm sure that I see pj's and mediators smiling too. Thank you. Okay, Sally.
Any chance we could get like a little fishbowl? I know that. It takes up time, but maybe it's warranted.
What's the fishbowl? Oh, to watch? Well, this is going to be the fishbowl because we're going to record one of these and it's going to be recorded in fishbowl so you'll be it'll, this will be helpful for future sessions to to be a recording, so yeah, I think it's better that we actually just step into it and everybody just do it.
I think we just need to remember this is a safe space, not a perfect space. So
if you're going to record Do you want to have all the actors and actresses in one room? Because like Bill, I met it, I'm not the best actor actress.
Yeah, there's gonna be Yeah, I'm here. We have four. We have one room with three people that I was going to join. So it would be I could join with Linda. If I was the trainer in that, would you be willing to just be the part of facilitator? I think it would be good for the recording to join your group. Okay.
I'm guessing Cara is a good actor.
I say God, Jennifer, Jonathan, Linda is a recorded group. Are you okay with that? Okay, great. Okay, we've got about six minutes before we can go into any other questions. All right, great. So we'll go in a few minutes early. So you do your 30 minutes, you'll have five minutes maybe at the very end, take that five minutes to do a little full group debrief and think we're ready to go and everybody's got your just the main thing is that you select which sibling you're going to be that you're you know what those sibling roles are. Okay, great. And so let's go into the rooms and I'll try to give a 10 minute heads up beforehand and I'll also be in the weight room if you need any any help if there's some kind of an emergency or something which I doubt they'll be and also a bill if you're needing to go then maybe Wendy or Jana you've you're both you're both in that group with him so you just want to view it just sort of take over there. Okay, great. If he's bill might have to go deal with some workers there. Alright, here we go.
Hey, Jana should be going into There we go. So, okay, so I'll be the trainer here. I'll keep the general time. And so one of the Oh, I'm just the wave explained everything. So the first step is what role would you like to do? Jonathan sibling, which sibling? Your muted. Could unmute.
I'm going to create a person.
And can you explain just in a sentence what that persona is,
I'm going to reach back to our childhood and I'm going to list every grievance I hold against each of my siblings and how I supported them financially, emotionally. And that my claim on that money, it has priority by Tommy
you're really a did, Linda, sibling, you're muted.
Sibling for I'm gonna be mama told me that money was mad.
Jenna, Jennifer,
I was also going to create a role. So is that possible to have two creative? Yes,
yes. Just give us a one sentence because this is for me,
the easiest thing to do is just kind of be myself. And I wouldn't care about the money. So I'm just gonna be that person. Like, I'll do whatever with it. Okay, okay.
Great. Excellent. So, thanks, everyone, for being here. I'll be the first listener. We've explained everything to the process. Who'd like to be the first speaker? Oh, and somebody? Could somebody keep time or you? Whoever's facilitate facilitating will keep time. Oh, yeah. Who's gonna be the first facility? I'm not explaining it, right. You're gonna facilitate, okay. Oh, no, no, you're so you're not you're not. You're not as you're as you're the facilitator. So you don't take a sibling? I'm gonna take I took care of mother. I'll be number one. Okay, yeah.
So I'm the facilitator. I'm gonna keep the time. We have five minutes for each. And
also, we make it three minutes, just because we have more turns. Yeah.
Okay, so we're gonna have three minutes. And I'm trying to get my timer set here. Okay, three minutes, and one second, no, three minutes. So as the facilitator, I don't have a role. My job is to keep the time three minutes.
Key to the process.
And I will be the first do I participate at all by being the first listener, you're
the first listener? So you're an active participant.
Okay. All right. Okay, Jonathan, you can go, you want to speak first to me.
I've been trying to speak now for years, these horrible. My sister and my brother, Edwin and Jennifer, they've ignored me for years. I was the one that helped them. They were younger than me, I helped them I did their diapers, I did their laundry. I've done everything for years and years and years.
Jonathan, what I hear you say is that your siblings, you were the oldest and you took care of them, they're changing the diapers, you did everything. You're the one that's really has been taking care of them. Therefore you feel
Yes. And this goes, this goes back over over 60 years, 60 years that I've been the lead person holding the DIS family together, and they just won't listen to me.
So you you what I'm hearing you say is that your siblings won't listen to you. And over 60 years, you're being the you have been the call or the one that's held the family together.
That's right. And I'm the one that that does the paperwork in the background. I'm the one that that calls the repairman when they can't figure out what to do. I'm the one that bears the burden of the daily responsibilities in management of the household. Now, just because I live in a foreign country, and they live in the United States, it doesn't mean that I that I'm not participating, like they say they say oh,
so what I hear you say is just because you live in a foreign country, and they're all here in the States, they they feel like they don't need to listen to you, even though you're the one that takes care of the the business of the family, the repairs to the house, the paperwork, you know, whatever needs to be done.
That's right. And the time differential screws up things and they hold me responsible. And they don't understand that, that it's hard for me because I have a business. I'm financially successful. And I have to keep that money coming in in order to take care of the business in the home.
So you you're saying that you're a businessman overseas, you have to generate income to keep the to take keep help take care of the family. You've been doing it As for a while and you feel you, you should get the money,
I feel that we should take a look at the money and take a look at our histories and prioritize in a sensible way the distribution of the money.
So what you're suggesting is that we the family, your siblings, take a look at the money, consider the money, consider all these other peripheral issues, and what's been going on in the family and decide a way to distribute the money fairly,
fairly. I feel fully heard Linda, I appreciate your coming here to help us. Because I haven't had a good conversation with my, my sister, brother and sister for four years.
And you're thanking me for being here facilitating this? Because you haven't had a good conversation with your siblings for years. All right. So since I listen, now I speak but as the and I get three minutes, I will speak to Jennifer. Agenda, Jennifer, I'm glad to be here today as the facilitator, and I hope I can help bring everybody together.
Can you can hear me right? Okay, I'm hearing you say that you're glad to be here to bring us all together and to facilitate this group, and you really hope that you can be of service and bring us together?
Yes. And you know, family dynamics can be good and bad. It can be traumatic at times, and it can be pleasant at times.
And family dynamics can be pleasant, and they can definitely be challenging at times good and bad.
Correct. But my role is to keep the conversation going. And as you listen to each other and reflect, maybe you'll be able to see the other person's point of view.
And you're here to make sure we listen to each other and reflect and focus on that so that maybe we can see each other's point of view.
Yeah, it's called being empathetic. When you consider your brothers and sisters and how they see things and why they see things. Maybe it will make the discussion about how to handle the inheritance a little bit more tolerable.
So you're saying by bringing in some empathy, and seeing each other's points of views, that if we bring that process into the inheritance, conversation and conflict in the family that it should, if we can just see each other's points of views that possibly what will open up is a sense of empathy, and we can kind of get somewhere in the conversation.
Yes, I'm going to ask, you know, I don't have a dog in the fight, except for I want you all to come together as a family, if you can, if you choose.
So you're not here to take sides, you're just here to make sure that if we can, and we choose to that we have a safe place to come together as a family as your as you're facilitating.
Yes. And even if you still at the end cannot come to an agreement of what to do with the inheritance. Hopefully, this will be an opportunity to open up the communication and between all of you, and eventually, you know, come together as a true family unit.
So even if there's no resolution today, the hope is that it is opening up at least a path to some kind of resolution that satisfactory to all parties in the future.
Yes, well, I'll communication with the family to come together as a family unit.
Okay, so not necessarily a resolution, but at least open up the communication as a family unit to come together.
Yes. Thank you. I feel fully Earth
Yeah, the last speaker. That's right.
All right. Um, let's see which brother would I like to speak to?
I'm sorry, sure. roll again.
I am the sibling I created my own role and I don't care who gets the inheritance. Okay.
All right. Okay.
So, Jonathan, I want to fully acknowledge you for your contribution to this family. and the role that you've played in it.
Oh, Jennifer, here is saying that you're acknowledging my contribution.
And the role that you play in this family, because I think that a lot of times that seems to be overlooked.
And I hear you saying that you do acknowledge the role that I have played in this family and that you say, gosh, you know, maybe maybe we have overlooked it.
And when you said about, that you're overseas and we're here in the States, I guess, I've never considered really how much it does have to do with that.
I hear you're saying that you hadn't thought about before the difficulty of my having to be overseas, and the time differential and the problems that I have coordinating things with the American vendors and and services and grocery stores and repair people.
Yeah, no, it sounds, it sounds like a big hassle. And I can hear that it has weighed heavily on you.
I hear you're saying that you're you. You heard me say that? That it weighed heavily on me and it hurt me. Yeah.
And I feel that I really want to, you know, work with Edwin and see how we can come together as a family and get you whatever money you want, whatever, whatever works for the two of you. I'm I am willing to agree to.
And you're saying that you're just going to go along with the flow?
Yeah, I am. Thank you,
I feel fully heard if I can end early.
Well, I'm going to take a chance and talk to Edwin. Okay. You remember when you switch the tags on those bicycles for Christmas. And I was supposed to get the bigger bicycle with the chrome on it. And the the racing stripes. And you snuck down there and switch those tags.
For you want me to remember that time we had that situation where I switched the tags on that the those bikes and you're supposed to get the better one
that hurt me.
Yeah, so you're really hurt by me switching the tags?
And we've never talked about it before this time.
Yeah, and you're just feeling it. This is something we just never talked about that that pain that you went through.
And it just seems like you always forced your way and tried to get what you want.
Yeah, so in your opinion, I forced my way and just get what I want.
And I haven't seen you evidence, any any anticipatory guilt, or any guilt? retroactively.
Yeah, you don't see me have any guilt about the bicycle incident or Yeah, or retroactively during it, then afterwards, I don't feel bad about it.
And it just bothers me and I just just walk away and shut down and just don't want to be around you.
And because of that you just shut down. You don't even be around me.
And I don't even know why I'm talking to you. Because it's like talking to a brick wall.
And you think talking to me, like you're not even sure why you're here talking to me because it's just like a brick wall.
And Jennifer never came to my defense. All she was doing is oh, let's go with the flow.
And yeah, you're just on your own Jennifer's not defending you. She just goes with her own flow as usual. And
and I don't want I don't want all the money. I just want the money divided fairly.
Yeah, you're saying you don't want all the money just want a fair distribution of it.
And thoughtful distribution.
Yeah, real thoughtful distribution. And
I'm hoping that
maybe maybe we could achieve some peace in the family after after we go through this procedure. I mean, we've got to we got to deal with the With the insurance company, we got forms to fill out. I don't even know how to even start adjudicating mom, mom's will I mean, where do we got a house to sell? I mean, gosh, and you're, you're, you're going to be the one that's going to be here that has to take care of the business. Because I'm stuck overseas, and I can't do it. How can you do it? If I can't trust you?
Yeah, I got you think that I have to deal with all the kinds of financial issues? And how can you leave it up to me if you can't trust me?
Guess I feel heard. Okay. First time.
I'll speak to Jennifer. You know, Jennifer, don't give me this goody two shoes kind of approach. I mean, I think you're really full of shit here.
Oh. So I'm hearing you say the year you sound frustrated with this goody two shoes bullshit act that I put on? And you see right through it.
Yeah, you know, Jonathan's talking about the house. You know, the the mom and dad sold the house, and you borrowed the money. It was like $500,000. And then you spent it all on drugs. And then it was on on, on rehab. And I think you owe us that $500,000 Because you love you borrowed that money from them. And so you owe it to us. So you know, stop playing this goody two shoes, like you're going to be the one that's going to, you know, whatever it happens with that $300,000 You owe us $500,000 To because you borrowed it from mom and dad.
So I'm hearing you say that, in part of the whole goody two shoes thing is that you want it to be known that I actually, you know, owe the family $500,000 Because I borrowed it from mom and dad and blew it all on drugs and rehab. Right. So, yeah, so that yeah, that's what I'm hearing you say? Okay,
yeah. And so, you know, I don't even know what to how to deal with all this stuff. It's we're, it's this family is so dysfunctional. It's like, it's like Jonathan's Oh, you know, I cleaned your diapers when you were young. I was cleaning mom's diapers for the last six months. And where were both of you? You know, where were you? It's like, oh, Jonathan's off, you know, having a good time overseas, and you're off there. With your new age friends and stuff. You know, we're we're you dealing with the real reality of mom's situation.
And hearing that you're questioning where we were in the last six months of mom's life when she needed that kind of really intimate care. That must have been like, really, you know, infuriating to not have us be around? And, yeah, I'm hearing that you had to go through a lot. And who cares about you know, Jonathan, cleaning our diapers when we were 60
years ago? Yeah, who cares? He's gonna cash in on 60 years of you know, 60 years ago, he changed a couple of diapers. He's gonna cash in on that for the next 60 years. Give me a break.
So yeah, so it was 60 years ago. Come on. Yeah. No,
let it go.
Yeah, it's just it's too much. Yeah, it's Yeah, I feel heard. Functional Family can't believe it.
All right. But, Edwin, would you be my listener now?
Now try, I'm so upset.
Okay, thank you. So I'm actually really happy that we have all taken the time to get into this group today.
You're glad we're here and just have kind of finally gotten together in this in this group.
It's very dysfunctional, our family. But in my experience, I haven't seen a family that I got to know really well, that is typical.
So you haven't found any sort of a typical family, they think you're saying they're all sort of had some dysfunction.
But I think the important thing is we actually got here and we're communicating.
And at least we're here or at least we're talking where we hadn't been talking before.
I think that's huge. And I hope that we can come away from this if we don't have a have a better understanding that at least we can acknowledge ourselves as people for breaking through something that most families can't come together to find a way through.
And you're hoping that at least we can acknowledge each other and just have some kind of a breakthrough here that most families don't even have these kinds of breakthroughs.
I think it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable and authentic, and, you know, sometimes break that character that we have with each other, and really listen to each other.
And just that we get together, listen to each other and break the sort of dysfunction. Yeah,
I'm sorry, I blew all that money on drugs. They were really good. And they helped expand my mind. I wish you had had some but you just weren't interested. I offered you the shrooms all the time.
Yeah. So you think I should have been a drug addict too? And you'd offered it to me, and I didn't take you up on it. In order to have expanded my mind.
Yeah. Well, I was I was out on that retreat farm. And I It wasn't just me, I had mushrooms for the whole community. So and now there's science that backs up the mushroom connection to the brain and the mind expansion. So I have no regrets. I just wish that you as my brother weren't so upset about it. I hate to see your blood pressure get like, you know,
yeah. So you're just upset that you're seeing that my blood pressure's getting up around this. And you're like expanding your mind with whole groups of people. Yeah. You wish to join that?
I wasn't trying to hurt you. I was probably self medicating. You know, growing up the way I did, there just weren't a whole lot of people that understood me. So I, you know, there's a lot you don't know about me, but maybe one day we'll talk about it.
So there's a lot I don't know about you. You're sort of self medicating people didn't really understand you, and you're growing up.
Thank you. I feel fully heard.
Okay. I'll speak to Jonathan then. So when all I do is get a bunch of words from both you and Jennifer. It's like words, words, words, words, and there's no reality to it.
I think that we've had 25 minutes. Okay, at thing, if I'm keeping up with it. So it's time for the Yeah. Quick, deep.
So good.
How did you feel? What would you thinking? Is this a good process? Whatever. Jonathan.
I think that the first lesson should be what we saw on the pre restorative empathy circle. Videos that Edwin illustrated. And it's difficult. It's very difficult, and I'm a little uncomfortable. I'm a little worried about Bill, this book, which is talks about a Boolean theatre. And Boolean theater is an outgrowth of culture circles. And the Boolean theater uses role playing exactly like we're doing in order to empower and to give options for people. And so it's structured a little differently. And what's interesting is the concept.
Thank you. No concept of,
Oh, I thought you were giving me time. Yeah. But can finish it though. Oh, of an awkward word. But he calls it SPECT actor. And that's where a spectator becomes part of the action, and possibly even steps in and replaces the person who's doing the role. And then this process is repeated multiple times.
Thank you, Jennifer. I'm just trying to keep time with the five minute deal.
Yeah, the feedback. Um, I thought it was just fun. I don't. I mean, it does seem like it would be useful. Absolutely. In a family situation. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah, I thought you did really well, in terms of advocating for empathy. You know, he's like, I'm here to be empathic. And that was that I thought that was like, really beautiful. I enjoy it. I get into the roleplay. Sink into it. And this is actually what I would call imaginative empathy. We have sort of a direct empathy where we listen, someone listens to you, and you just reflect back. That's sort of an other oriented empathy. You know, based on Carl Rogers When we do roleplay, I call that imaginative empathy. And I just, we haven't done much of that in the circles. But I just see the power of it, because, you know, just stepping into that role so I'm really excited about about this and thanks everyone for doing it.
All right, I it was interesting to me i i can see where it could be beneficial for family members, even if you have some that don't want to participate at first. I think some ground rules if you're in person, you know, no guns, knives, baseball bats, but other than that, it's I think it's pretty good. So let me because we have two minutes, but anyway, I'm gonna try to keep up with starting at 1252 So we have witnesses 1255 A feminist one. So we're gonna stop this the next facilitator and in 25 minutes, so that'll be 125 Yeah. 131 30 there abouts. Okay, who wants to be the next facilitator? Jonathan is twitching his finger?
Jennifer wants to do it. No, no, go ahead. You
trying to be a gentleman, but that's not gonna work today. Jonathan, you can be the facilitator. And it's three minutes for each person. And everyone's just for clarification for me. Do I take a role? Now
you do and I'm going to take another one Toby, sibling for gifted inheritance. Mom gifted me the inheritance.
Okay. Okay, I'll be number one. And the facilitator goes first,
are you keeping the same one are you
I might be the same one. I actually don't know, printer. So I wrote everything down. But I didn't know. Because I was gonna be the I thought it was gonna be the same role throughout. But I can also take, you can different roles.
It's up to you. If you want me,
does it work better if I pick a different role? Whatever you're
comfortable with,
what I can take a role. But tell me again what it is like the sibling.
Okay, sibling one took care of mom. And so you feel like you need to be compensated for all of that. I'll do that. Oh, okay. And I'll be I'll be known. I mean, sibling three, I loan money to mother. Okay.
I'd like to thank everyone for coming. And it's a real honor for me to help you all resolve this inheritance dispute. To start out with, I'm going to demonstrate listening. And what I'd like one of you to do is to volunteer to just tell me what's on your mind. I mean, what do you think about disinheritance?
To say, Yeah, I have something to say.
I'm gonna start the timer, Linda. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead.
Now, I know how love you feel about me, and I really don't care. But I did loan mama some money, quite a bit of money to live on, even though y'all say y'all will take care of her and all this other crap. I loaned her money. I should have gotten her to Santa I owe you or something like that. But I didn't get her to sign it. But if we really have pushed this receipts,
Yes. May I reflect? Well, you're just saying very strongly that you loaned her money, and that you feel that you that you should take a priority. And that that this is important to you, and that that's
also telling my sisters and brothers Alia, I really don't care what you think of me. But we're gonna do this. I'm gonna get my money back.
No, I hear you saying that. That you're thrown down a plank saying, I don't care what you think. I'm gonna get that money back.
You can call it a plank of God, a bluff. You can call it whatever you want. I'm just being clear that I'm gonna get my money back. hook or crook.
Okay, so I hear you saying emphatically that you ain't fooling around and you're gonna get the money back. Under all circumstances, yes.
I have receipts I have bank transactions, which shows that money was transferred from my account to mom's account. Now, before mom went really went deep into Alzheimer's, we talked about this, and she agreed that this was a loan, and that her life insurance policy would pay me back.
So I hear you saying that you, you have documentation that proves that you gave Mom Your mother money. And that before she progressed in her Alzheimer's, she had agreed to pay you back out of the life insurance policy.
Yes. And you know, it just installed when she went into Alzheimer's. So we're about it, we're talking about two or three years of me loaning her money. So when I calculate the amount that I loaned her and the interest on that money, it comes to about 200,000. So I want that, and then y'all can take the rest of it and do whatever you want
with it. So you've run the numbers. And you figure that out of the 300,000 200,000 will cover what you gave her and the interest. And we're just about over out of time, I don't have my time.
I got it. 3938 seconds, I got 30 seconds. So I just want to make it clear to everybody here. We can talk all day long. But I'm getting my money.
Well, thank you.
And now as the listener, you now have an opportunity to speak and
you have the business. You're the listener, now you speak.
And this is why we do this. Yes. And as a
facilitator, you advocate for empathy, tada,
I'd like to speak to Jennifer.
We,
the first step to to resolving this is going to be for each of us to listen to each other. And that's why we are going to be spending the next half an hour taking turns.
Okay, so you're saying that the reason we're here is to listen to each other. And that's why we're going to spend the next half hour taking turns. And maybe
it's best, in my opinion that we not get too specific. Because we just have gotten so separated as a family that we couldn't even sit down and agree on whether on what time we're going to have dinner.
kind of confused now. Because Are you the facilitator? Are you a sibling,
my mind still slipped?
So I can I can reflect that. But I'm sure that's okay. So you're hearing that we can't even get that figured out how to sit down for dinner. So you're not sure how this listing is going to work with us. So not to get too specific?
Yeah. So what I'm trying to advocate here is that, that we that it's best for the group, to to slow down a bit, and just speak what's in your heart and mind.
Okay, so you're staying as the facilitator, you're advocating for us to slow down a little bit and speak what is in our heart and mind.
And if we can do if we all, including myself can develop a good relationship with each other. It'll allow us to better address the harder issues.
So if we can foster a better relationship with each other, you think that it will give you give us a better ability to handle these issues as well. Were challenging things. Yes, it's
it's taking some baby steps.
This is like taking a small step on the path.
And I think that if we can all speak our mind and just tell us tell each other what's on our hearts, that will open up a better conversation, perhaps in our next meeting, or maybe an hour from now after as this progresses.
So your hope is that if we can speak what's on our minds and what's in our hearts that you know, our next meeting, we can have a better relationship and lead to better communication outcomes.
Well, thank you very much.
So the listener becomes the Speaker
Okay, yeah. Okay. I'm the speaker. Okay, who am I gonna get restarted? Linda, will you be my listener?
Yes. Jonathan, are you keeping time and you want me to
just punch the button? Oh, there's my little timecard.
Okay. So I'll be glad to listen.
Well, I just wanted to address what I heard you say earlier about the money?
You want to use it you want to talk about? I'm sorry.
I want to address what you said earlier about the money you lent mom.
Oh, you want to address what I said about loaning mom and the money? Yeah.
And so I guess I what I fail to understand is what that has to do with us.
And you are saying that you don't see how that impacts y'all.
And I understand that she owes you money, but and interest, but I didn't know you had turned into you're in the business of banking.
And so you understand that I loaned her money. And now I want interest on that. But you didn't realize I had turned into a banker.
So I find it a little weird to hear it like that. But at the same time, I see that it's important to you. And so I want to work it out. But I just want you to know, I never saw it as my responsibility. That was your arrangement with mom.
Okay, and you want to work this out. But honestly, you never saw it to be your responsibility, or you other brothers and sisters jobs responsibility. About Me loaning mama money.
And, you know, I took care of mom in the last six months. And I'm not gonna say what that was like, because honestly, it was a privilege.
And so you feel like it's a privilege that you were able, you did take care of mom for the last six months.
And I'm not worried about myself financially. But just so you know, I did neglect a lot of my responsibilities, things that would bring in money
to take so you're not really that concerned about this inheritance money. But you do want to make it known that when you were taking care of Mom, you gave up some opportunities to generate income for yourself.
And I am in a situation right now, where some of the money would make a difference for me, but it's not something I'm willing to fight with the family over. And I feel so okay.
You recognize that the money would make a difference in your life, but you Oh, but you don't want to fight about it. Okay, that's it. I
feel fully heard. Okay.
All right. Edwin. Yeah. Okay. Let me just say this. Jennifer. sweet, gentle, passive drug abuser, Jennifer. You know, you don't want to fight but you want the money? Well, let me tell you, it's gonna be a fight. So you might as well just get ready for it. You took care of mom for the last six months. Big deal.
Yeah, so you're, you're saying Jennifer, drug addicted, Jennifer. It's like, she wants the money. Now. It's like you're gonna you're not going to give it to you. It's going to be a fight. And it's like big deal that she took care of mom for the last couple of months.
Yes. And I want to say something about this the facilitator or neutral person or whoever's in the room, telling us to slow down and be specific and speak from our hearts and minds. That's not his job.
Yeah, you're telling this idiot facilitator that it's not his job to tell us to slow down speak from the heart not kind of crap.
Yeah. You know, I'm a grown person and I really don't need anybody to tell me how to speak or whether to go from speak from my heart. I speak from my man. I speak for both of them.
Yeah, you don't need some You're a grown person. You don't need somebody to tell you how to how you're supposed to speak. And
yeah, so you know. Like I say, it really doesn't matter what y'all think. But I didn't loan mama money. This is over a period of years more, which is more than six months. You say it's not your responsibility, or Jennifer said it wasn't your I guess she's speaking for you too, brother, that it wasn't your responsibility to her responsibility to, you know, pay that loan back. She might be right. But her life insurance is, is her life insurance, therefore, is the life insurance proceeds. That should come to me.
Yeah. So the life insurance proceeds should come to you because you loaned her the money and forget all the other stuff that Jennifer is talking about.
Yeah. And we taught mom and I talked about this. And she, you know, assured me that when the time came, and I'm so sorry that she's gonna miss it every day. I really do. I wish I could pick up the phone and call her but I can't. But I do remember her telling me that the money that I was loaning her would come back to me through her life insurance policy.
Yeah. So mom told you and you really miss mom. And it's like she told you that money would come back to you from her insurance policy. So she made it. She told you that?
Yeah. And I'm gonna stick to it.
You really want to stick to that agreement? Yeah. Okay, I'll speak to Jonathan. Yes, I think we've chosen the wrong facilitator. I have to agree with Linda, I think we should just scan this whole thing and get a different facilitator because I don't think you know what you're doing.
I hear you're saying that, we need to get a new facilitator because the current facilitator doesn't know what he's doing.
Yeah. And that's you. You're the current facilitator. I don't think you know what you're doing. And I don't need anybody telling me to speak from that other heart. I don't need any of that new age. Junk talk, you know, it's like, see, I think, Linda, I think we're ready to fire this guy. Not only should we fire you, we want our $500 back for for that we paid you, you know, to facilitate this.
Are you saying that you're very dissatisfied with the services my company's providing and that not only are you complaining, but you're not going to pay?
Now, we've already pre paid you we want the money back?
I hear you're saying that you want a refund?
Yeah. And I don't know. It's like, where did you learn as a facilitator? I mean, this is like the worst facilitation I've ever seen in my whole life. I mean, Linda, is, I think really agrees with me, I She's like shaking her head. I mean, it's like, how do we get you? Where do you come from?
I hear you saying that. You're incredibly disappointed with with what's gone on in the last session in this session, and that you're just saying a war in the world that it comes from? Who trained me? Do I have any legitimacy being here?
Yeah. So I just want to, you know, kind of talk about just, you know, firing you and getting our money back and just can we do that? So yeah, I feel heard. I mean, just if you just reflect that I'll feel heard.
So you're saying that all you want to finish up with today is firing me and getting our money back?
Yeah, I feel heard.
Yes, may I? Talk to Linda?
Sure.
Well, Linda, I would like to advise you, or I'd like to share with you that part of what we're doing here is learning how to listen and reflect another person's emotions.
So your are telling me that what we're learning here is how to listen and reflect another person's emotions.
And Linda, you're saying that you don't care. And that you're just going to go ahead and do what needs to be done to satisfy you. is missing the point. The point being is taking some time to actually listen to your family, your other members in the family,
you're saying then I'm missing the point you as a facilitator saying that I'm missing the whole point of this session, because it's about taking my time and communicating with my siblings.
Yes. And so I would like you to, to, as I said before, slow down a bit and prioritize just hearing what your family members are saying and not pursuing the end goal, which is of course, getting fair compensation for the money that was loaned
and as the facilitator, you are telling me again to slow down, and pay attention to my siblings, their concerns and their wants, and with the end goal being being able to agree on the dissemination of this money. In
other words, experience just being here in the moment, rather than accomplishing the goal of reconciling that financial transaction just being here,
you, as a facilitator are telling me to just be in the moment, rather than focusing on this money? And how am I get it.
And that's what I'd like you to do that, that's what I feel is my job here is to try and build some confidence among the family and to get just some normal reactions and normal conversations going, which will set the stage for a more productive discussion about the actual dollars and cents.
So what are you seeing as you want us to come together with a kumbaya moment? So we can later discuss about how to split up this money?
Linda, I, thank you for listening. And it's your opportunity to speak to Okay, someone here, anyone?
Okay, I'm gonna speak to Jennifer. And I came with your sister. Okay. I want to say that I did not realize we were coming for a counseling session or intervention.
So what I'm hearing you say is that you didn't realize we were coming to a counseling or intervention session?
Correct. So I'm just going to ignore what the facilitator just said, and go back to my original statement. One, go ahead.
You're just going to ignore our facilitator here and go back to your original statement.
I do not care what you and Brother think of me.
You do not care what we think of you.
I've always tried to be the the friend, the mediator, if you will, and it has gotten me absolutely nowhere.
You have always throughout our history tried to been a the friend and the mediator impartial. And it has gotten you nowhere.
I accept the fact that I cannot change. You, Jennifer, and I cannot change it when my brother
you accept the fact that you can't change us, either myself or your brother?
Yes, because y'all can't change me.
Because you're clear that we cannot change you.
So believe it or not, care not 200,000 of that 300,000 is man, if I have to go to court, I have the receipts. I'm gonna get my money.
So I'm hearing you say you've got your receipts, you don't care how it happens has to happen. If it has to happen in court, so be it. You're gonna get that 200,000
Yes. You know, I'm not really concerned with at this stage of my life. Having a family relationship with you, or Edwin. We had that opportunity when we were growing up, it didn't work. I'm done.
So, that opportunity, that ship has sailed to have any kind of relationship with us as siblings. And so I hear you're disenchanted with the whole notion of it and you're done.
Yes. So this whole session about I say something you reflect and you say something and I reflect you, I can reflect and you can reflect but I'm not feeling any change in emotion so I will stick to my original goal.
Okay, you can reflect.
Oh, so this business about reflecting feeling talking from the heart. Talking from your ass doesn't matter. You're gonna stick with your original goal of getting that money. Thank you.
I feel fully heard
All right, can you be my listener, Linda?
Sure. Okay.
So a couple of things. I hear what you're saying. And I want to ask you, if you remember, before you went off to get your master's degree around that time you were, I think it was your first master's.
You are asking me to remember a time when I left to get my first master's degree.
And I was, I was real strong. But I didn't want to see you go, you know, I wanted you to take the opportunity. But
I was real sad. You were sad to see me go even though you considered yourself when I heard you say strong at the time.
Yeah. And my acting career was just taken off. So I just wasn't thinking about a future where anything was going to be a problem.
So you will focus on your acting career, and you thought it would just take off, and you didn't anticipate any problems in the future.
And I kind of have a little secret to tell the family.
And you cannot have a secret that you want to share with the family.
It's kind of funny, it's not a big deal. But during those those couple of years, when you were out there in Michigan, I didn't know this, but mom had a gambling habit.
So you want to share with the family a secret? That's kind of funny, but maybe it's not. But while I was away in Michigan, getting my first master's, mom had a gambling problem.
And she hid it from me. And she even hid it after after it was over, because she just was so embarrassed. She never wanted y'all to know.
She was in you're saying that mom was embarrassed, she did not want us to know that she was addicted to gambling.
And I let her over $500,000 of my own money at the time, because it wasn't a big deal at the time.
And you what you're saying is that you loan mama $500,000. But it wasn't a big deal at the time.
She just kept telling me it was going into the church and she was fixing up the church. And you know how she was.
She kept telling you that the money that you had loaned her was going towards the church, and that she was just
lonely and
gambling. And you didn't realize that she was lying to you. You but you figured out she loves gambling.
The last thing I want to say to you is I want to fire this facilitator to I'm with you, we can speak our mind just fine without them. What is this? $500 Let's put that back into what she owes you. I agree.
And so you want to find a facilitator to and just forget to 500
they thank you I feel fully heard.
So go ahead,
Linda. It's now your opportunity to speak to someone.
Okay, I'm going to speak to Edwin Well, here we go with Jennifer.
Mauer, again with Jennifer.
Yeah. Now Manor, passive. I think she's more passive aggressive than passive.
Yeah, she puts on a role of passive but it's really passive aggressive. Yeah.
Yeah. This 500,000 Now she's saying that she loan mom. I don't know why I almost laughed. That's too funny.
It's too funny. That's 500,000 Like, where did that come from?
Yeah, she's she's in the heroin, cocaine, whatever that stuff is a chewed up the nose in the vein. I don't know what it was. Where she gets 500,000.
Yeah, it's like, you know, Jennifer is that drug addict, which we all know. And like, Where'd she get all this money that she lent mom? Yeah, like really?
Really? And to fix up the church? That's what?
The church Yeah, sure. Well,
mom didn't go to church. So I don't know what she's done. What church she's talked about.
Yeah. And you know, that mom didn't go to church. And so you're wondering, like, what church is she talking about? How would you fall for that?
Yeah. The closest churches on Sunday morning, she would turn on one of those channels that had the ministers go On all days, reaching someone begging for money and bible thumpers and it's just I don't know.
Yeah, she didn't she didn't have a real Trisha has listened to those bible thumpers or on the radio all the time, and they're always asking for money. Yeah.
Yeah. So maybe Jennifer and one of her delusional states. She thinks she owe a lot of my money. But I think you and I should get together and challenge her on that and ask for some receipts.
Yeah, it's, you think it's kind of delusional. You want to see real receipts? You've got receipts, you want to see her receipts?
Yeah. Yeah. And if you, you know, work with me on this, I can see where we could end up with all of the money.
So maybe you and I should just work on this. We'll just get all the money. He is. Yeah.
and split it, you know, 150,000 a piece and let Jennifer go back to her imaginary world.
Yeah. All right. Yeah. Just you and I could just split the money and let Jennifer do her imaginary world stuff that she does.
Yeah. So because I'm determined to get this money. And if Jennifer fail for Mama's story, about $500 to fix 500,000 and fix up a church. I don't think it's going to be too hard for us to convince her that she gets nothing.
Yeah, if Jennifer is so gullible, she's going to fall for mom's you know, $500,000 story, like, you know, it's like, she's not good. She's no contest for us just dividing it between us.
Yes. So that's all I have to say. We can play in later how we do. Yeah.
Okay. And all right. Okay. Yeah, you are we have eight minutes. Yeah. So maybe, oh, should I do my turn? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'll speak to you. Again, Linda. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think what we should do is just kind of just ignore this facilitator, just don't talk to him. You know, just kind of, and we can just kind of work it out between the three of us with him. Since we're here. We were able to just keep talking, but just ignore that guy. How are you? Yeah.
Yeah. So what I hear you saying is that you agree that we need to just ignore the facilitator? We've already paid him. Yeah. So we're just keep talking.
Yeah. And I don't need to hear any more of this, you know, speak from the heart crap, you know, I'm with you. It's like, you know, just what's the what's, where's the money? How do we divide it? What's the structure? You know, let's just deal with that. Forget all this woowoo? You know, speak from the heart crap. Yeah.
Yeah. And what you're suggesting is that we again, just ignore the the facilitators suggestion that we speak from the heart of whatever. And the three of us get together, and we can work this out. Like, we've always worked things out.
Yeah. So you know, if you can show the receipts, I'm going to go with just the bookkeeping, if Jennifer can show some receipts, I don't think she has any receipts, you know, so if he hasn't had the receipts too bad. I mean, if they're going to hold up in a court of law, you know, we don't want to go to the, we don't want to go to the court, he's going to have to pay for lawyers, and that's going to cost them it'll take up, you know, it's going to take up half the half of the inheritance. So if we can just work it out, we're gonna save legal costs. And I'm with you, if you can show those receipts. I think I would, even though she actually offered it to me. But you know, she didn't give me any written documentation. So maybe we just go with, if you've got written documentation, if you don't have the receipts, then we've got something else to talk about.
Okay, so what I hear you say is because I have the receipts, you're willing to work with me, in terms of documenting what money is owed to me, as a result of the loans, and it's cheaper for what I heard you say, it's less expensive for us to work it out. Among the three of us, as opposed to hiring a lawyer and going through a lot of costly litigation.
Yeah. So I think that's sort of at some, you know, we just got to figure out how to deal with Jennifer, you know, she's, she's always been a troubled, troubled person who had those drugs and doing all that, that group drugs stuff, you know, it's I she wants to expand her mind and all that kind of stuff. It's just kind of rotting your brain really is what it's doing.
And so, we can just go forward and figure this out. And then while we're doing strategizing, we can also strategize have a deal with Jennifer and this whole deal. The the person that wants to use mushrooms to expand her mind.
Yeah, expand your mind
let's bow look
we can only go into the mushroom business. Okay.
All right. We can debrief we can.
That was fun again, was fun again. I didn't even want any of that 500,000 back.
Good because you're not getting it. Let me let me say I think Jonathan did a good job when we were attacking him as the mediator. Jonathan was a great sport. And sometimes that will, you know, happen, they'll turn on you and say, Well, you're not being neutral and blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, and so I don't think he internalized that he kept going back to trying to encourage us to be more family. You know, what his speak from the heart and speak from the head? And yeah,
I would say I think, Jonathan, are you okay? First of all,
I'm just reflecting upon how to apply this in the real world. And if this was a real world situation, I feel like I don't have the tools at this point, to adjudicate or to referee. I think this type of training is extraordinarily valuable. For me who's in on the, you know, on the point and, and it's a testament to the community we have that each of the individuals have to play roles in order to simulate this type of interaction so that I sit here and worry for half an hour about nothing to worry about. Guys.
Your heart Oh, my gosh,
I'll jump. Are we there for as are more sorry, no
more, but I can.
Oh, yeah,
it's nice that you picked up on his house like, oh, Lord.
Yeah. So the with the facilitation, you don't want to tell people how they should speak. You know, it's like, no, from the heart, none of that kind of stuff. It's like, you're free to say whatever you want, you know, is, as soon as you start telling people, you know, it's like, I'm thinking, Who the hell is this person telling me how to speak it's like, you know, even if you say from the heart, it's like that, that that comes from a certain, you know, sort of philosophical community mental judgmental, like, yeah, you're judgmental. Are you thinking I'm not speaking of truth? Yeah, so yeah, never tell people how it's like, say whatever you want whatever's on your mind. You know, it's that's fine. From your heart, just speak from your ass. I think you mentioned. I tell people that speak from any part of your body that you Okay. Oh, is that something you wanted to say something? Well, I
wanted to say that yesterday and the day before yesterday, when I was reviewing the videos you suggested, I was marveling at your composure. And that and that was and you came up over and over and over and over and over again, with a pro appropriate, non judgmental, as you've pointed out, and my mind that we need repetition, it's important to do these training sessions over and over again, and I see the purpose behind training because you guys, whether it was fake or not, or a simulation or not, you pushed my buttons, but at least I returned to trying to smooth things over rather than to take it personally. So my learning experience is to go back and study those videos again, and steal some of Edwin's reactions in lines and study him as a role model.
Ellen that you're muted.
Let me just suggest, Jonathan that because this as a mediator, you know, it has happened not frequently, but and this is the person that's doing it. by turning it to the to you, the facilitator, the media, they are deflecting or projecting. And if you remember that you, you and you remember your role, you're standing outside watching this chaos go on. And so you just keep saying, but my goal is, or what I'm here for is, and because and recognize that what they're doing is rather than dealing with the issue on the table, they're deflecting and start, you know, focusing, throwing all their animosity on this neutral party party that does not have a dog in the fight, you know, I got paid to be here, I'm gonna get paid, I'm already paid, and you're not gonna get the money back. But anyway, but that's what usually when people start going at the mediator, and in this case, the facilitator, they're deflecting, they're not dealing with the issue on the table. As the facilitator, I just would suggest that you just keep, not take it personal, because they don't know you. They do not know you. And you your job is just to keep the wheels turning. My job here is to keep the wheels turning, you know, and I appreciate if you're, you don't say this, if you don't want to get along, I don't have a problem, I don't get paid. But just keep the wheels turning, just keep the whip, because some people you can't change, that's my two cents,
let me and also, when it's your turn to speak, you don't have to take the full three minutes, sometimes people speak to me, and I'll say, I'm glad that you're all here. And as a sunbae says, You're glad that we're all here, and you say I feel fully heard. So you don't have to fill the space with stuff, you know. So that's the other thing. And, and it's good thing here, there we are, sometimes the family members just are so tense that they can't speak to each other. So they want to use you as a reflection that they know that they'll be heard. So it's good to have you there sort of like a mirror just to sort of help. And, and especially don't tell them what to do, you know, except stay within the process. Because, I mean, I've had people just like, tear into me. It's like question my, my total existence as a human. And it's tense, tense, right? It's like, I mean, and it's like, you know, then there's, that's everybody here is following the process. But when they start breaking out of the process, that's like a whole nother can of worms. And I've had it where they are like, they don't want to do the process anymore. I said, Well, I will leave then since nobody wants to, if you don't want to do the process. I'm here to maintain the process. And, and then I'm out the door. I'm right about to say goodbye. And they say okay, okay, we'll stay within the process.
So what I hear you say is I get it is returned to insult with a compliment.
No, I don't. Well, the person, is
it a target attacking the facilitator. They can say, Well, I'm glad that you, you know, at least came to participate in this. And yeah, that's what I mean, return that in solo attack when you're doing a great job. And, you know, I hear what you're saying. So. Oh, so you said you're glad I'm here. Okay. Well, nevermind.
And just listen. Yeah. So Jonathan, did you just started reflecting you just kept the ball going? It's like eat, it's like, hey, we want to fire you. You just keep the ball rolling. And you know, so Exactly. So. Okay, I need to start the next one. Hi, are we
you ready? Johnson, you have some more.
I want to I'm sorry, I had some feedback.
If Jennifer please, please go ahead.
Try to contain it. So I see your commitment to the process and to like this whole thing working. And so I wanted to just invite you to consider the distinction between a commitment and an attached because how it feels is that you're in a, you're more attached to it in a particular way, then you are committed to the process just existing on its own, no matter what happens in the space or in the container, as Edwin calls it, you know, it's like, you're not really responsible for the lucky soup that we create inside the container. But you're trying to be like, Oh, no, there's no there's, there's a you know, somebody put a foot in the soup, you know, that foot out of there. And we have foot soup all the time at home, you know, like, so I just invite you to like this just in life, right? Like just being committed to something but not attached to it. It's like keep your plans and say as in your goals in concrete, the plans everything's gonna change and get messy, but you have a commitment, a goal and you stick to that and try to keep tunnel vision, you know, but I love your heart and I love how you can tell it If you if it didn't matter to you, you wouldn't care. You know?
Yeah. So thanks.
Thank you. Okay. We're going to let sweet Jennifer be passive aggressive. Out. We go back in it. And when do we go back in and two or? Yeah, we
have. Oh, yeah, we can kind of right behind. We're behind a little
20 minutes, so yeah. All right, that's fine.
I'm number two took care of the father.
Okay. Jennifer, do you have a timer? Oh, yeah. So you want me to keep time?
Um, so we're gonna do three minute rounds or
three?
Sorry. Okay. Hey, Siri, open timer. Yeah, if you don't mind, it's,
um, the facilitators, the first listener?
Right? So I'm going to demonstrate being the first listener in this process. explain to you how it's gonna go down. Thanks so much for being here. And as the first listener, Jonathan, would you would you like to share what's on your mind here?
Yes, start the timer. I took care of mother, and over the last year, and it was horrible. I'm a guy and I had to work with these female caregivers that the agency sent us. And I spent all my time dealing with their problems more than mother's problems. So I hear
you say you had to work with mom in the last year of her life and all these caregivers. And there were a bunch of women and you had to take care of their problems on top of mom,
that was scheduling. I mean, I was scheduled to talk to my friends online, but the caregiver was late. And so I ended up having to sit there with mom in the living room. And all she does because she has Alzheimer's is just knit knit knit knit. And she hasn't finished one piece of knitting yet.
So all she does is sit there knit and you had to sit there and listen to Mother, you know, with her old timers, and, you know, missed out on your own scheduled time with your friends, which you look forward to and had logistical challenges all over the place.
And if she tells me that stupid story about learning how to milk cows on the farm, one more time, I'm just gonna walk out.
And you are sick and tired of that story about the cows on the farm and milking them.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But let's get down to brass tacks. You guys owe me that. $300,000.
And then what you're what I'm hearing you say is the family here owes? owes you the $300,000. Left? There's no no two ways about it.
That's right, I had to have to stand the stinking house, her house is dirty. I can't get the caregivers to do more than wipe her butt. And they won't vacuum they won't clean, they won't do anything beyond the obvious necessities taking care of the mom.
Anything above, above and beyond the obvious necessities of keeping her butt clean are just lost on these people. They do nothing other than the absolute bare necessities.
And they and when I leave a dirty dish on the counter or drink coffee on the floor, the first thing they do when they walk in is pitch about it.
Notification, but that should be fine for a while and I couldn't hear the but they bitch about it all the time. That's the first thing they do when they walk in.
Yeah, and so that's worth that's worth a lot of money to me. And that's why I want every bit of it for the for the year that I put in Stan with with her and managing those stupid caregivers.
And your frustrations at the time were worth every penny that is owed to you. And that's why you feel like you should have it.
That's right. And I feel heard. Great.
So now I'm going to facilitate the speaking part. And we'll ask Edwin, would you be my listener? Okay. Okay, so I'm excited to be here today to bring your particular family issues to the forefront.
You're excited to be here to kind of facilitate this.
I want to remind the family that no matter what you say, it's not a place for attacking or judging. We're just kind of be neutral about whatever you hear in the space and practice listening and reflecting more than maybe interpreting what was said.
So you think you're going to tell us how we should talk and that we shouldn't interpret things but be sort of neutral.
I'm going to refrain from using the word should because it really is there's no wrong way to be in this particular case. empathy restorative empathy circle.
Yeah, so you're gonna take the shit out of abusers no specific way to be here.
I don't want to shut all over you guys.
You don't want to shut all over us.
That's it, I feel fully hurt. Okay, thank you
speak to Sister Linda.
Sister Linda is here
for you. Yeah. So, you know, I took care of dad for two years when he had Parkinson's and was just, you know, couldn't you know, he just was totally almost just totally immobile. So that was like two years worth, you know, really serious work. And it kind of bankrupted the they're both mom and dad. I mean, all the money was used up by by his care.
So what I hear you saying is you're letting us know that you took care of dad, and he was not mobile. Most of the time, and with the medical bills, it took a lot. Kind of ate up moms and dads. Savings.
Yeah, so they had to sell the house. And, you know, fortunately, Jonathan was able to stay there for you know, while with mom. And so, you know, they're they basically penniless. So, now we just happen that we have this $300,000 life insurance policy, and we got to, you know, kind of divide it in a fair way, you know, something that's fair.
Okay, so now I hear you say, brother that you want to be fair in the division at the money. And that mom and dad, you know, it, they ended up selling the house, even though Jonathan got to stay there for a while.
Yeah. And, you know, I put in well over $300,000 in dad's care, you know, is that there was a lot of medical bills that I paid out of out of pocket. So I really think that, you know, that that money should go to me to just to cover all the bills that dad had, you know, I'm even still in debt from and I had to borrow money to so I'm even in debt, you know, for all that care. And I was, I was good with doing it. You know, I love Dad, I love mom. You know, I'm sad, really sad that they, they've they've passed. And, but I do feel that I should be compensated for those two years. And all the money I put into dad's care. And it was me who did it, you know, none of you, you know, contributed to that.
So what I hear you saying, brother is that you took care of bad even though you want us to do that, Oh, you think the money should be invalid? Divided fairly? You're telling us that how much money it costs you personally, to take care of dad over these two, two year period.
Yeah, and I'm not even talking about you know, my time, you know, it's a huge amount of time to you know, just the personal care, right? I know, Jonathan put in a lot of time, but I'm not even, you know, counting the time, I'm just kind of giving away the time. So I think Jonathan should give away hit, we just give away the time, we just go for the actual, you know, core expenses that we divide, we pay off all the core expenses, and just divide the money that way that we did it out of love, you know, that's fine. You know, he put in a year taking care of mom, I put in two years taking care of dad, you know, we don't charge for our time. But we discharged for the actual, you know, physical Bill bills that we did.
Okay, so what I hear you say now is you want to flip the script. And you don't want us to consider the time that we put into taking care of mom and or that you wouldn't Jonathan put in taking care of mom and dad, but just the expenses incurred.
Yeah, exactly. I feel heard.
Okay. So now I get to speak to Jonathan. Okay, big brother, Jonathan. glad that you're back in the states that we can communicate face to face.
I hear you're saying that you're glad to see me back in the States so that we can talk face to face?
Yes. And now. middle brother Edwin has proposed that we divide the money fairly and look at it in regards to how much actual dollars we spent or that was spent and taking care of mom and dad.
I hear you saying that. Our brother Edwin has suggested that we just look at the receipt It's and go buy them expenditures and divide up the 300,000 that way.
Yes. And I'm glad I have an opportunity to talk to both of you at the same time, because I started out by saying, I really didn't care what you thought about me, but I really do. Oh,
I'd see you saying that you're actually now you're, you're saying that you're actually glad that you have an opportunity to talk to us at the same time? Because before you were saying that you didn't care what you thought, but maybe now, you're saying that, that you you are listening to us? Yeah.
That first facilitated that kept going on and on about speaking from the heart and the mind I, I took that into I thought about it, and marinated over it. And life is short. So I want us to come to an equitable division of the proceeds.
I hear you saying that, that the other facilitator which you got rid of, actually, after you thought about it a little, some of what he said was making sense. And life is short. And maybe maybe we worth sharing a few moments of, of interaction with your family, rather than just fighting?
Correct. So I'm all for me getting my 200,000 and you and it was let the 100,000
so I hear you saying that. You'd be happy to just take 200,000 and that Edwin and I should Doug, split the remaining funds.
Thank you, hopefully are fully her. Yeah, complete beat up on me later.
Well, I'd like to speak to two Edwin's. Okay. Well, Edwin, I know you want to go by the receipts. But I'd like to consider time. Now remember, this was during the start of the COVID pandemic?
Yeah, so you heard me talking about the receipts, but you're kind of wanting to go by the time and it was it was happening during COVID time.
And it was the startup and everybody was scared. And I was frightened. And we had to get home food delivery and that cost money. And I couldn't leave the house. I was afraid that if I left the house and caught that bug, I'd bring
it home and give it to mother. Hmm. So you know, you had home delivery. You stayed home there with mom, cuz you didn't want to get the bug and
and that's this was hardship on me. Because I didn't leave the house for one year, one year locked up in that house. 24/7 responsible for mom.
Yeah. And whatever whole year. I mean, 24/7. You were locked up with mom? Is that Yeah.
And so just reducing this division of the estate to simply to receipts is not fair. To me.
Yes. You don't think that just receipts when you actually spent this fair? Because you got all that time all year.
And and so I would advocate that we share the money, then in a more equitable way. Yeah. So
you want to not do the receipt approach, you want to share it in a more equal equitable way.
And I would think that at least 1/3 1/3 1/3 Is is where we start.
And 1/3 won't just three ways is maybe a good starting point.
And so, I you know, I I'm glad to hear that I'm listening to both of you, I think that we're actually communicating and, and that and I appreciate that.
Okay, you appreciate that. We're actually talking we're connecting and you're just appreciating this.
And I I'm really happy with our new more laid back. Facilitator
and you're glad that we have Jennifer's, you know, better facilitator than that other guy.
Yeah, he was just too pushy with his opinions.
Yeah, he was She with all his New Age stuff his opinions?
Yeah. So I feel fully heard.
Okay, well, I'll speak back to you. Like, I think what I'm willing to do is I have $200,000 worth of receipts, and I've got them right here. I saved all the receipts, I put them away into the box. And so I've got them on file, I've got a whole document, or 200,000. So I would say, we could do, I could take the 200,000 for those receipts to cover it, and then just show me your receipts. And we'll just go down the list, you know, all the receipts to kind of cover them. And then if there's any money left over, we divide it by three. So is what was what I'd suggest. Yes.
So I hear you saying that you've carefully got all the receipts, and that you want to start out, dividing up the money by balancing that out against your receipts, and that anything leftover after you've taken the money? That would be what would be divided?
Yeah. And I know you did it, you did a year's worth of, you know, hard work. And I put in two years. So you know, I'm not charging for two years worth of work against your one year's worth of work. You know, like dad was just incapacitated, we had the, you know, we had to we had to take care of him. We had to do everything to keep you know, for his upkeep and well being. So it was, you know, pretty much my family. It was 24/7 Yeah, my wife, you know, she helped with it. And the kids, they help so our whole family did, you know, put in two years worth of work. But you know, we love Dad, we're not going to charge for that. And I know you love mom, and I don't think you want to charge for your time for, you know, for if you love Mom, I don't know, did you? If you love mom, I think it seems like you wouldn't want to charge her for time.
So I hear you saying that. That, that it's complex, and that, that when you were taking care of father, you actually spent two years and you lost time from that you could have been spending with with your family. And that I hear you say that you're acknowledging that we both loved mom and dad. And that, but you have a real need to collect. What's due you from? Right as represented by those receipts? Yeah. And that you're not talking about the two years you spent with dad. And so why am I talking about the one year I spent with mom?
Yeah, I'm not complaining about taking care of Dad. It's not the Hey, took us away from my family, my whole family. It was our whole family project, you know, take care of them, because we all love dad. And we want to take care of him. And you know, it was our pleasure. It's only the physical costs that we spent that we wanted to have covered.
You just want to focus solely on the physical cost.
The hard dollars and cents. Yeah. So dollars and cents that were spent not on the love, which I hope you love dad and you're not trying to charge charge mom. So yeah, that's it. Okay. I think we got five or six minutes. So. Thanks. So
yeah, we're good. Okay. That's awesome. That was fun. Brief. Yeah. How was that for you guys?
I'll let Jonathan go first.
I think this is extraordinarily valuable for developing the concept of this training. I've got so many thoughts that I'd rather try and compose and share with the notes that I'm behind on. I think it's invaluable. I think the person that gets the most out of it is the facilitator trainee. And so it should be very clear that those people that are supporting the trainee understand that their role and that they're going the extra mile or being extraordinarily goofy or, you know, coming up with an imaginary scenario. It's fascinating because we don't the whole process was wonderful. I feel like I learned something, or at least what I need to
learn. Thank you. Awesome.
Oh, I'm supposed to be critiquing Jennifer. Jennifer, you were you. You weren't as obnoxious as that guy that was on before you. So I could say
Yeah, yeah, that really was not too much for Jennifer to do since we didn't attack her though I really thought about it. But But I, you know, even though I was playing the role near the end, I was like, You know what this is everybody gets a third and let's go home. And I think in a conflict situation, it's like a mediation once the person, you have to get them past their emotions before you can get them, and to considering options for compromise. So with this, in a family situation, even though I cannot even imagine getting my family together for this, but it is an opportunity to listen to the other person. And to understand even though you don't agree, which can be challenging. Now, adults, they don't have a personal relationship, but families, you know, you always got that history going, that's behind the scenes. So once they get that story out about trading a bicycle or, you know, doing whatever they did or didn't do, then you can get to you know, now they know they hurt my feelings. And I know that I've never apologize, but let's move forward.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I'm really excited about this, you know, I've done sort of the role playing, you know, way before and I've been focusing on just on the active listening part, I'm thinking that I really enjoying the roleplay, I think it's a lot of fun brings up a lot of energy. So I'm really excited about this. The, there was a little bit in the beginning, like Jonathan did, he's telling us how to be I thought you had a little bit of it. And then you sort of backpedal that with the shoulds. Absolutely, yeah, if there was a bit of that. So you never want to tell people how they should be because you feel it is, as a participant, you feel like, oh, this person is telling me how I should be like, right? You tell you can be as anything that you want. It's like, in your spirit feels open, they don't feel like constricted. And I think you've got it with the shoulds, you didn't want to put any shoulds in there,
I felt it as it was coming out of my mouth. And like, there is,
there it is. And that's it. That's the thing that when people turn like we did on Jonathan to attack these little things, so that was a, that was the only other that was the only thing that I really saw the rest, everything flowed, it was a lot of fun. And,
you know, I go ahead, I was just gonna,
I had a quick analogy, while I was facilitating that as the container because I like analogies, it's almost like your job is to let the water get boiling hot for people. But without them getting burned. You know, like, it can get up to any temperature, and they can be whoever they want to be. But to bring your family in and say, let's, let's, let's let out the tea kettle and it may go steam. And then, like you said, you have some space to say, let's be reasonable. 1/3. And let's go home, you know, but I think if people have that opportunity to let that hot air go, then there's something else
available. Exactly, exactly. There's people have a lot of pent up emotion to begin with. And it's like, you're free to let it let it out. And once they kind of vent that even if there's sort of a bit abusive in their language name calling, they get it out. And then it's gone. It's out there, and then they start getting, you know, past all that you get to the real and I just see it over and over and over again. So yeah, yeah. So it's trusting the process. Trust that free speech, free expression, eventually will end. Everybody listening to each other will eventually transform the space to create that culture.
And there's no problem you can't handle right? There's just really nothing that could happen. One thing that happens is you close your computer, you know,
Doctor has something to say chances
are rooms leaving, I'm gonna save it for the notes and say, I really enjoyed everyone's company today. I think this is extraordinarily valuable. But I think it's going to be very hard on the newbies. I think it's going to be interesting just to hear the well. Let's wait a few minutes and let's see. Everyone else did. Yeah,
yeah. We're shall see. Hey, Kara.
That was exciting.
I thought so.
They're still fighting
in
Phil stayed with us
Yeah, repair people are never there when they say they'll be true.
Okay, one day you're doing the debrief.
Okay. Is everybody? Okay? All right, we're gonna start by going around and BJ would you? Are you okay? Able to show yourself let's start with you. And you know how you felt about the whole experience? suggestions, questions, comments? What, you know, your insights, what did you learn?
Okay. For me,
I love the process, absolutely loved it. And as far as being the facilitating, I found myself engrossed in the conversation. And for a minute, I forgot, I was a timekeeper. You know, because it was so intense, you know, and so genuine and everybody was contributing in a way that, you know, could be perceived as positive or negative, or whatever you want it to be, but it was genuine. So it was really interesting. How everybody had a different take in how the roles were changed, you know? Okay. 1234. And then somebody comes in with five. So, it was interesting. I enjoyed it, and I look forward to this again.
Okay. All right, everybody, we'll get up because the number would do one minute piece. Sally. Okay, one minute.
Um, well, for me, it was a lot of fun. Because I, well, I kind of surprised them was I silly stories. And, but anyway, it was kind of a learning process. And by the very end, I was able to actually figure out how to do it. Like it took going through it. And that was the last facilitator and after that, everything just seemed to clarify for me,
okay, great. Alrighty. And then we have Jennifer and after Jennifer B. Jana.
I got to see Edwin in action for the first time. And that was fun. I mean, in live action, like, responding and like being funny, and he's got really fun rules. And you can tell they're kind of inspired by life, you know, and it was just a lot of fun. I like I like what everybody said about the fun. And what was cool was like, I think that we are all playing on we do have some of these roles, like we've seen some of these. It's like everybody has a family dynamic that something like this. It's not exact, but you
know, comes up.
Okay, Jana, any learning insights from the experience?
Now, as I move, reflecting, I think that it's painful to be in some of these roles. It's like it, it's not. It's painful to be selfish. Okay. Yeah, Sally was very creative. That was really nice. I misread the last one, I didn't realize that you had an option to not want the money. So that's good to know that there's a creative persona there that can not let the money all of it are part of it. Thank you. That was an interesting experience.
Okay, we'll have Wendy and then Ann and talk about your experience as a facilitator. He got that opportunity.
I actually think I was a bit nervous because it wasn't something I've experienced before. So I acknowledge that. And I was grateful for people's, you know, positive feedback. I learned, you know, quite a bit. You know, just the whole importance of really summing up what you've heard at the end that that was useful. I learned a lot and it was fun. We good. Yeah. Thank you so much.
And insights, learnings.
I thought I thought it was very interesting. And it was quite interesting how in two of them, I was being in like defending the person who was getting a raw deal, I thought, and I was cool. I'm involved with it. And then the other one it was just quite different and it was interesting. Noticing. I guess just like the parts of ourselves come into the role playing. Yeah, I I think I think there's ways to look as a facilitation team. How to get that to go a bit more smoothly. Yeah, sometimes it didn't flow smoothly, but it was really interesting experience really worthwhile do.
Okay. All right. D and then Bill.
So
facilitating it was awkward because a little bit different than how we've been doing it before it but we all persevered and got through it. I I'm impressed that I think I really do think that by the time you go through the empathy circle, and the people that are at opposition's get the chance to repeat what, you know, their opponent is saying that eventually, I think things watered down to it my way. I'm just kidding. But you know, that, that they, you know, could see that, you know, hey, here's a little piece, but maybe we can do so in a charged situation, just because something's gotta give. And so I think finally, that was becoming apparent to all of the participants.
So that's what I got.
Okay. And they'll
Yeah, I really enjoyed being with, you know, Jana, Wendy and Sally. And, but I didn't feel that it was a real empathy circle, it was, you know, it's not. And I think roleplay is a very specific thing. I've used it. I'm not against it. But I think it would be much better at another point in this sort of training after we. So my suggestion would be, for people to come with real life conflicts that they know about doesn't have to be about them, and discuss them using the empathy circle process. Thanks.
Okay. Alex, and then Ruth. Oh, um,
I've just received news that our group, D. And, and Vijay, we've been nominated for the Academy Award, this really positive, we all really leaned into the roles. And we had three very different circles each time, because we really adopted very different characters throughout I. Yeah, it is different to an empathy circle. I think. I personally think that the facilitator needs to play more of an active role in terms of deciding who goes next. And I think that, for me, personally, the more structure the better. So I think the facilitator actively selecting the next person to speak is a good way of doing it. I echo some of Bill's thoughts, too, I think that I got a bit bored of the inheritance scenario, by the end of it, like I was like, ready for three different scenarios each time. But I am really interested in restorative justice and restorative empathy. So, and I really liked this model. So I'm interested to keep unpacking how they work and mesh together.
And thank you, for all of you that have shared so far, if you would make sure you give us some feedback in a variety that would be great. Okay, Ruth, and then Larry.
Yeah, we had some very extreme roles. We had Alatriste of a victim martyr, an empath and a lion kind of a delusional person. So yeah, it was kind of it was a very different experience to an empathy circle. There was a lot of like, knock Enos and but yeah, and slightly, like a weird feeling of Yeah, playing the role and then watching yourself play a role. Yeah. Yeah, I also felt a bit bored. And I was glad when things started to move towards signs of people actually. Getting each other's. Yeah. Perspectives. Yeah. That a lot of patients needed. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you, Larry.
Yeah, I was a bit apprehensive coming into this. I didn't know what it would feel like. But then once I selected the role, and began playing that in the room, I noticed, hey, this is fun. And then I started noticing that, you know, human beings, were really all playing roles all the time. So playing this elected role gives us an insight into the fact that we're all playing some kind of a role. And I really enjoyed the process a lot. It just brings up a whole relaxation to the seriousness of this topic. So I really loved it, and really enjoyed. Everything was great. You know, Oscar winning participants.
Thank you, Larry, Kathy, and then Cara.
Yes, I agree, it was fun.
And it to me, it was no different than, you know, our empathy circles is just that the facilitator will be guiding what's happening. And yeah, I like the role of a facilitator plays when it's their turn to share. They can say things that will calm down the circle or give more guidance for the circle. And we talked about maybe when things got really escalated that the facilitator can call for, first of all, take some deep breath and call for a five minute break. You know, get up stretch, walk around, get yourself something to drink. So, yeah, I really liked it a lot.
Thank you.
All right, car. Yeah, so I'll talk to you fooled as a participant, I found that it was both fun and 100% triggering, but that I learned through that and, and watch, like, could see how the empathy circle worked it out, even while trying to hold on to a character and focus on that part and deliver it that way. You started to run out of stuff. Because you were getting the empathy, which I found fascinating as a learner as a participant learner. And then as a facilitator, I, I learned wholly new bunches of tools, I learned to talk slower. I stopped taking my full time, I didn't think of myself so much as a participant, but as a guide. So I would, you know, I would take my turn to remind everybody that yeah, this is hard. And these are big things. And this is the process. And we're just going to be here for that process. There's no solutions, you know, taking a chance to relink everybody to why we were there. And I'd only speak for a fourth of my time and then pass it on it, which I will use in future circles. So I really found I didn't come in with ideas, but I really found value in this experience.
Okay. And Jonathan, because I was in the room with you. Go ahead.
Oh, well, I had a wonderful experience as a facilitator. And what I learned is what not to do. And that's a use the word should. When it was my turn to speak as facilitator, I tried to calm things down. And I use the word should. And my group rebelled against me and spent the rest of the session discussing how to fire me. Anyway, it was a wonderful experience, I'm telling you, it really helps me to avoid that type of pitfall. And the whole point of this is actually to get out in the world and do something with this knowledge. And if you pick the wrong words, you trigger people, and I picked the wrong word.
Okay, I will share and then let everyone share since he's a guru. I found it easier as a participant to listen, because we were all on the same topic of whatever and I had, I had, I had a dog in the fight. So I found it easier to listen. As the facilitator I think we could, like we give challenges in a regular circle, we could probably have some training on what to do when you as the facilitator when you're attacked, when they deflect or project all of that energy on you. And we did on Jonathan, and I think he did really well. You know, because that can happen. People can rather than focusing on sister or brother or the other adults in the room, as I told him, when it's like when it's a family, you have family dynamics, which is which is different from when they're adults in the room and they don't have any familial relationships. So I did have found it easier to listen. And I think, if we could do some practicing on what to do, as the facilitator, when they deflect and they come after you. It was a good, I liked it. So I'm done at one.
Okay. In our group, so is the facilitators would, to varying degrees would tell the participants Oh, you know, speak from the heart or telling people how to speak. It's like, and that's where, you know, Jonathan said, I would speak from the heart and I went after him, how dare you tell me how to speak, we gotta fire this guy, how about we we want to not only that we want our money back. So it's just it's like, that's the one thing you don't want to tell is like, you just say that people are free to speak however they want. And, you know, everybody appreciates that, Oh, I get to speak, and, you know, maybe to begin with will be some harsh words, some strong energy. But slowly, once that gets expressed, the tension will go down, eventually, given enough time, and then people will kind of be more, you know, kind of be more constructive, you know, basically, so you got to kind of purge that energy. In terms of attacking of the facilitator, you know, you just kind of stay in the process, you say, you just reflect back the attacks, and then you just speak, I think you're it was right on Kara, what you're saying about, you don't have to use all the time, you know, just say a few words, you don't have to feel that three minutes. So your time, it's like, you say, I'm really glad to be here, I really want to support empathy. And then I feel fully heard, you don't have to, you know, fill that time that was exactly kind of on the mark there. So and then you're there is a facilitator, that sometimes the participants are so angry with each other, and they don't feel like the others going to really hear them that they want to hear and be heard through the facilitators. So they'll use you as like a mirror to be really heard well, and then so that's a really important role. And we didn't want to do challenges here. If somebody was like, Oh, it's a little boring. You know, we don't want to you know, you, we don't want to, we want to do baby steps here. Get familiar with this, get comfortable with it. If we do a full training, you know, six, seven weeks, we start throwing some challenges in people not following the rules being angry, you know, what do you what do you do in that situation? And family is the toughest, like somebody. I talked about family mediations. And they say, that's kind of the genius level. If you can work with your family, long history, your you know, it's, it's a lot to to deal with. That we had a team, I think Jana and Wendy were on that. I think that and Kara, that we're working on defining empathy. So we have the empathy as a way of being is the overall sort of definition, that's a way of being it's just not, you know, one little thing I listened to you. But that is makes up. That way of being is made up of different facets of empathy. one facet that we do a lot in the empathy circle, is just listen to others, so that that other oriented empathy, listening to others, there's also like self empathy, listening to yourself. And the imaginative empathy is stepping into a role. And what you're doing here in the, with this role playing, you're exercising your imaginative empathy, muscles, you're learning how to step into a role, and act from that role. And if you're like Meryl Streep, you know, it's like, I think he's like an X, you know, just a master at becoming that person, you know, she becomes, you know, Margaret Thatcher, she becomes Julia Child. And so it's a good exercise for another facet of empathy, which we really don't explore too much. I haven't really focused on that in the empathy circle, because we just want to get the basics down. But it's sort of a next level part. And you can also use that imaginative empathy for working through inner conflict. So I remember we did a an empathy circle, and someone about creativity, someone said, Oh, I hate creativity. Because when I'm creative, I have my judgment come in and criticize my creativity. I feel pain. So every time he associated pain, with creativity, so what we did is this imaginative empathy. We did roleplay like somebody was her judgment somebody was for pain, somebody was for creativity. And we use this empathic listening, and this imaginative empathy to work this through. So you can kind of work out your inner conflicts, just like you're working out conflicts with others, you're kind of working out your own internal conflict. So this Imagine if part I think is very, you know, very, we haven't done much with it. But you know, I think we can eat a whole kind of a course on on the the nature of imaginative empathy, I'm seeing, have support from Kara, for that. So I'm gonna really just take one or two questions before we go into the we have a couple of minutes. Just any questions about the mediation?
Edwin, so if I catch up with Santa Cruz, extinction, rebellion, am I going to see all those people that I saw? Are they doing empathy circles?
Well, that's the thing is, is I had add in the circle, they didn't want it recorded. They initially said they would, but then they like did not do so we just have the pre circles. No, not now. Yeah. But now I don't know. That's Hi, advocated. I said continue with empathy circles. I don't know if they did or not, because that I think every group like that should start with empathy circles. And that's part of the restorative empathy circle arc, is that as a group, you start with practicing empathy circle practice, before you have the conflict, right. So you start building that container that practicing in your group, starts building that container, you're strengthening the the walls of that container. So if a conflict does come up, you're already a step ahead. Because everybody already knows the process. Or if somebody has a conflict, they can reach out to somebody in the group in the group and say, I need an empathy Buddy call to work something through. So that's why we do the empathy buddy calls, is because you are sort of practicing that skills. And your empathy. Buddy calls are also good for preparing you to do the pre circles with people in conflict. So but basically, your question, I don't know if if they continued, I kind of doubt it. I think they just kind of went on their merry way afterwards. And just thought I don't know what happened. So one more question. I think we probably have time for if we close. Okay, looks like there are none. So I guess we're ready for when are you?
Thank you. Thank you, Edwin. Laurie, Linda, Bill, and any final trailer comments, please.
I think this is a good focus for conflict resolution. Because whether it's political, religious, family, children, schools, whatever, we all will have conflicts or disagreements in our lives. And this, you know, practicing this and how to handle it will follow without internalizing it. The conflict yourself as a facilitator would be great.
One small
step for empathy circles, one giant leap for conflict resolution.
Thanks, Phil. Comments? Thanks. Okay. Thanks. And yeah, I
think I think that the more more hands on we can get, each of us could get on dealing with conflicts, then the batter is worse. So I think it's a useful skill to date with us. Because there are conflicts, disagreements all over the place, and it can really help.
Thank you. So let's review what we did in this session, participants practice facilitating a short, restorative empathy circle. We've provided time doing this by skipping the How to introduction, we debrief the experience at the end of the empathy circle. And what's coming up next week. So in Session Six, it's an integration of our learnings. We'll hear any questions feedback that you have about the whole training, and we'll have a discussion about your next steps. We'll revisit the values of a culture of empathy now that we have experienced this training in terms of assignment Since Edwin will kindly send out an email, and in the chat, there is the reminder of the need to fill in the session feedback survey. And please put in there any questions that you have that can be addressed in our final week. Please hold your empathy Buddy call that, you know really reach out to each other, trying to facilitate an empathy circle during the week. And then think about how you see the empathy circle practice beginning to build a culture of empathy in our world. And we asked you now to please post one feeling that you have right this moment as a result of being here today. How are you feeling?
Wow, excited, energized, joyful satisfaction. Grace, energized peace supported. Good to reconnect with everyone. Learning comfortable. brace them. Yeah. Great words. Thank you. So that's all have jazz hands as we say goodbye. And hopefully see everybody next week. Thank you, everyone.
