S10E33 Luvy Jenkins | Down Syndrome Association of Central Texas (DSACT)

3:05PM Jul 11, 2023

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Luvy Jenkins

Keywords:

teachers

inclusion

kids

child

down syndrome

classroom

inclusive education

school

inclusive

disabilities

preschool

education

educators

barrier

families

support

iep

people

learn

love

From MCIE. Belonging is a human right and not a right that should be earned

my name is Tim Vegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education and you're listening to think inclusive, a show where with every conversation we tried to build bridges between families, educators and disability justice advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. You can learn more about who we are and what we do@mcie.org Louis Jenkins has over a decade of experience working with kids. Growing up in Mexico, she did not have much experience interacting with children with disabilities. However, while she was getting her Bachelor of Science degree in psychology and child development, her cousin was diagnosed with autism. This inspired LwV to seek a career in special education. Originally, Louie's background was in behavior as she worked in an ABA clinic. Then while getting her master's of education in early childhood special education. She fell in love with the classroom and Louis taught at the right school of Austin for seven years before transitioning to her role as education and medical Outreach Manager at the dancer association of Central Texas. Louis also started a small business in which he provides consulting and tutoring services for children with and without disabilities. In this episode, Louis Jenkins discusses the importance of inclusion in education, and the barriers that families face in achieving inclusive education for their children with Down syndrome. She highlights the need for support and training for teachers, as well as the role of school administrators in promoting inclusion. She also shares her experience working at the Ryan School, an inclusive preschool that values diversity, and fosters social emotional growth in all students. Before we get into today's interview, I want to tell you about our sponsor together letters, are you losing touch with people in your life, but you don't want to be on social media all the time. Together letters is a tool that can help. It's a group email newsletter that assets members for updates and combines them into a single newsletter for everyone. All you need is email. We are using together letters, so thinking cluesive patrons can keep in touch with each other groups of 10 or less are free and you can sign up at together letters.com. And now my interview with Louis Jenkins. Louis Jenkins, welcome to the think inclusive podcast.

Thanks for having me today.

So help me understand the your role. So it's education manager. So what does an education manager do? And also, how do you I say the acronym,

so the Down Syndrome Association of Central Texas as DS act, ds act, okay, yes, got it. I am their education manager. Now I'm their education manager and Medical Outreach managers working in those two fields. But as the education manager, my role is to basically it encompasses all education resources. So I provide free training opportunities to classrooms, teams, districts in Central Texas, what those look like are like the Down Syndrome, one on one profiles, a really popular one, just making sure that teachers understand how best to approach learning and teaching a child with Down syndrome, there's huge strengths that they can take advantage of, to making sure that educators that are saying that inclusion is another one that I do. And then there's like an IEP one, just making sure that parents understand because the trainings are also for parents. So I'll do like webinars or that was during lockdown, we had about like a webinar every other month or so. But webinars on IPs and ARD meetings, as well as there was one more behavior, that's a big one too. So the functions of behavior, how to work through behaviors. So that's one of the roles that I do. Also, we organize a education conference each year, usually in the fall, where we bring speakers to talk about reading instruction, math, instruction, and inclusion, any topic that we think would benefit both educators and parents. So that is another thing that I do as well as a new program that we started is our World Down Syndrome Day kids. So each year we provide these kits for schools, they can parents and teachers can sign up just to help spread our mission on inclusion and on down syndrome in general. So we buy books we make activities, some of the activities we've used, actually Heather abs, who's the author of the book, she makes a lot of the activities herself which is great. So we'll include those in the kit as well as just again that Down Syndrome 101 packet on Sunday Hanks in areas of growth and things like that. That's pretty much the bulk of it. We do Educator of the Year awards, recognize teachers, I was a past educator for seven years. And so a big part of that was a way that I loved my job was just understanding the impact I made on families. And so with this award, we're recognizing a teacher and educator each year that's made an impact on a family or one of our members. So little programs like that, just in the education realm is what my job encompasses.

So is I heard you say Heather Rivas is Heather Avis affiliated with DSA.

She isn't yet she, we have some members who are friends with her, I connect with her. But I love her as far as like her podcast is great, the lucky few. The books that she's been publishing the last last year and this year, we've used both of her books, especially because they're just they're newer. They are they speak more to elementary school kids, it has those activities already made. And she's a well known resource for families with Down syndrome. So that in that whole kit, hopefully, teachers are able to then access her podcast as well learn from her. So she's not directly affiliated, but we use a lot of information.

Why is inclusion specifically for families that have children with Down syndrome? Why is that important?

Well, first and foremost, for me, belonging and inclusion kind of go hand in hand, and belonging is a human right and not a right that should be earned. So just given the the principle that we're all humans, that's basically like the first reason why I think inclusion so important, we all deserve to be with our peers, and not be segregated. But then on top of that, if you then add just the amount of research has been conducted, showing that school achievement, quality post school outcomes are all positively correlated with the amount of times that gets spent in genuine classrooms. That in itself is huge, though, while some kids do benefit from that one on one and all of that, overall, research shows that even kids with the most severe disabilities do benefit from being in the gen ed classroom included, and not just in the room sitting with their peers, but because that I mean, you're they have access to the classroom. But if they're not able to actually fully engage, then all of these benefits that research has shown isn't actually going to happen as much. So making sure that kids are participating and given the appropriate support is then shown to just truly benefit not just kids with disabilities, but all kids. So families with kids with Down syndrome. I mean, you're seeing kids going to college, and having full time jobs, and a lot of those skills you learn while you're in school, even if it's those like self help skills, like being patient and following through with a task. So being able to be in an inclusive environment is huge for all kids, but especially for kids with Down syndrome,

what are you finding families are coming up against as far as barriers to inclusion? Because I would imagine that you have a lot of families that are looking for resources, you know, surrounding inclusion. So what are they looking for?

There's a lot of barriers, I think, especially right now, even if a teacher is all in and wants to promote inclusion in her classroom, teachers are overworked. And there's a lack of teachers right now, and lack of subs and a lack of time in general. So even if a teacher is all in once to like, learn all these different strategies, and everything, a huge barrier is just the fact that teachers aren't supported enough. And so what I've at least read through research and everything is that for inclusion, which again, is not a place, but a mentality that needs to be embodied by all staff, it begins begins at the top. So administration needs to understand the benefit of inclusion, because they're the ones that are then giving the teachers that extra planning time covering for a class with a sub if needed, collaboration time, which is huge, though. If I'm a gen ed teacher, and I want to collaborate with a sped teacher, I need that time to collaborate or how am I going to be on the same page. So a huge barrier is that lack of time, which isn't a teacher's fault, that's more so like a systemic issue that I think all schools battle with. So starting at the top with superintendents, and principals, having them understand the benefits of inclusion, I think is a huge way to improve or knock down this barrier. Another one too, is just we get families who call and ask us, for example, like I'm moving to Austin, what's the best area for me to settle down and have my kid go to school and be included and welcome and loved? And we're not able to answer that question because it's so hit or miss you might have you might go to what's known as like the wealthiest district with lots of support and one on one aid but then have a teacher who is just maybe outdated and her way of thinking and so it's one year might be great one year might be horrible, you might hear really bad things about this one district, but have an amazing teacher who kind of changes your life. So that's a huge barrier to is moving to a city and then not really knowing what to do. On top of that, then another barrier is just making sure that the IP encompasses all those modifications and supports that your child needs to succeed, and making sure that teachers follow through with that. So I know as a past teacher taking data can be really difficult when you have tons of kids on your caseload and just all the different things that you have to do in your job, but making sure that you find a way that the IEP has modifications that teachers can easily implement in the classroom consistently. Because even if you have that good IEP, and it has all those different accommodations, and everything and goals that you are an agreement with, there needs to be a way for all teachers on the team to be able to implement them correctly or, again, the child might be included, but there might not be benefiting as much as they should be.

Do any of your families run into they're at an IEP, and the team is discussing specifically modifications to the curriculum. And the school team says, well, we can't modify curriculum, if they're going to be in a general education class, does that ever come up? It does,

and a lot more than you would think maybe a lot more as expected. I guess, given just the situation of inclusive education in the United States, it does happen a lot. And we tell families to approach all these meetings in the most collaborative way possible, because most of the time, I mean, most of the time, the teachers and the administrators want the best for that student, they just don't really know how to make that work. And they're probably stressed and, again, time constrained, and lack of support and all of that, and they might not have had professional development that really shows kind of what you can do to help all your students. So for example, I wish that every single school had professional development on Universal Design for Learning, because that's something that every single teacher Gen Ed's that whatever could implement in their classroom, and when done successfully, you're already meeting the needs of every single student in your classroom, with or without disability. So if you're a gen ed teacher, and you're kind of worried that you don't know how to do these modifications, you didn't go to school for that all of that, even though I know, I think every teacher getting certified should have Gen Ed and spared experience. Because you might have a child in your classroom, and diagnose that you're not reaching because you don't know how. So universal design for learning. If teachers in schools, were able to make that happen, even if you don't know how to properly differentiate an material, you're giving kids different methods of access to learning, you're giving them different ways to express their knowledge. That's kind of the base, I think. So if you go to an IEP, or an art and a teacher saying that they don't modify, it's so hard. And I think all you can really do is give them examples of like how to do that if you know. So that's another thing parents don't know, either sometimes, and that's hard for them to already have to take that on to themselves. But finding resources online that you can give teachers finding, for example. There's, I think it's on the Tar Heel website, but there's a website that has all these books like now I'm blanking on the books that high schoolers read the titles, but basically that say, The Great Gatsby able to people read that anymore, but you go do

they do because my Yeah, cuz my high schooler is just read it.

In high school, there's websites now that have these tests, texts already accommodated or modified with pictures with shorter sentences. So teachers don't have to start from scratch. Most of the things you can find are already online for free or minimal class. So being able to give teachers examples of that would be helpful

as well. Yeah, great point. I think the I think what you're talking about is there was something called the Tar Heel Reader. That that's it. Yes. Is that? I don't know if let me see. Tar Heel Reader. Let's see if that's still around. And if it's not that I know. Yeah, it's still there. Find the book. Yes. 20,000 Leagues Under The see. Yeah, this is really interesting. So I use this when I was a classroom teacher. So there's like, yeah, so I know, as an educator as a former educator. Well, I don't know. I guess I'm still an educator. That that the mind shift that yes, you can modify or adapt materials in a general education class. That is such a big hurdle for teachers because it comes down to Their sense of fairness, you know, like, why should we do this thing for this one student when no one else gets this thing, but the thing is, is like that is their special education. You know,

it's an I've, I feel like I've heard that said before, and I had a speaker, I went to speaker, one who talked about this in depth, and it is years ago. Now, I wish I remembered who it was. But she talked about that the fairness aspect of it, and how just, that doesn't make sense at all, when you really truly think about it, because a child needs support. So child who's not able to walk uses a wheelchair is that they're unfair for a child who wants to be down the hallway in their classroom, no, they need that to succeed. So when you're not providing those tools, you're not even giving that student a way to succeed. And you can always fade it to and see if they might not need it. But if a child needs like a word bank, for example, to to pass a test, and that's how they will show their knowledge, why does it matter if they have a word bank, and someone else does it, and the fact that some educators think that that's fair versus unfair, I think it just shows a lack of understanding of what different learning profiles look like. And that's why again, going back to Universal Design for Learning, I think, is huge. Because if a kid's not able to write a five page essay, or a five paragraph essay, through Universal Design for Learning, they can make a clay model, they can make a podcast, they can do a poster, and they're still showing their knowledge to the teacher and to their class. So if you're not giving a child a means to show what they learned, how do you even know they're learning, and so that it's your second this cycle, where you think that a child with disabilities might not, like be competent. So that presuming competence piece is huge. And because you're not giving them those tools to succeed, you don't see them succeed. And it just kind of goes on, on on on. So first and foremost is presuming competence, and then understanding that people need different things to succeed. And you and I probably have things that we need that help us succeed. For example, when I go to the gym, my coordination is not great at all. And so I've had coaches who during like agility days, want me to jump a certain way, and it truly hurts my brain. And I have to think about it and practice and practice. And if the coach didn't come up to me and kind of guide me through it, there are some moves that I could have spend hours trying to perfect that for someone jumping twice in one leg, and then going over this hurdle comes easily. So I need that modification in the in the gym setting for a coach to come to me and talk to me about it and practice it with me. And I would not succeed without that. So I think just having teachers and educators understand that every human, whether we know it or not, has different ways of learning and different ways that support our learning is huge. And at least try it out and see because you might be blown away, you will be blown away if you're giving those tools to kids who need them.

Yeah, that's a great point. I always think about, you know, I, I pay for an annual subscription to grammerly. Are you familiar with Grammarly? Yeah, okay, so and so I'm a writer, I write, you know, blogs and articles and stuff like that. And then I also, you know, write scripts for the podcast and stuff like that. And I'm, I'm an absolute ly horrible speller. Horrible, horrible speller, and also like grammar, it just, it does not come easy to me. So, for me, having that assist is huge. Because as a communications person, I had to get over this idea that it's cheating. You know, because I love my job, I, you know, I'm energized by it, this is what I love to do. And that actually makes me a better communicator. So. And that's absolutely fine to use that, you know, just like with other aides and assistants, and stuff like that. So I always think about that, like when I'm writing emails or an article, and I'm like, Man, I'm so glad I have this,

especially if you're doing it in a way that's intentional. So yeah, if you're giving a child the answer to all the tests, I mean, that's not you're over supporting them. So if you're intentional with what that student needs, and you're finding, kind of like the least to most prompting is a good way to approach it. But if, for example, they only need a word back again, and they can answer every single question on the test. And that's great. But if you're giving them a test, but 30 different questions, and small little print, and no word bank or even cues or anything, they might not show their knowledge. So again, yeah, it's that fine balance of lack of support and over supporting and understanding how they learn, which I know can take time but again, there's so many online resources with ideas and ways to approach this, that aren't that time consuming. Another good example is an audio book versus reading a book, a child may read or listen to The Great Gatsby on their air pods and understand the beginning, middle, and the characters are studying everything that you want them to know. But if you make them read a chapter a day, that child may not have the reading comprehension yet, or the attention span that they need to read all that or the vocabulary that's needed. So providing audio book versus text is another great way to accommodate for that learning style. That isn't cheating or unfair. It's just what's best for that student.

So in your previous role, job, previous role, previously, you had a role at the rise school in Austin. And from what I can tell the very little research that I did, although I tried, it seems like there's a an inclusive philosophy there in early childhood. And I don't know about I don't know about the rest of the school. So could could you let us know, in our listeners, like, what was your experience like working there?

Yeah, definitely. So I started at the RAI school as an intern when I went to UT for my master's in special ed, and stayed for seven years, because I loved it so much. I felt very spoiled being there, because it's definitely like the golden star of what an inclusive preschool or preschool in general should look like. The basically for those who don't know, there are a couple of high schools throughout the nation, mostly in Denver, Alabama, and Texas. But the high school model is that 50% of our students are neurotypical, and then 50% have a disability, what makes that possible is that we do have a lot of support in the classroom. So there's one lead teacher and a teacher and an assistant. So like a co teaching model that's used as well. We also have therapists on staff who do just push in therapy. So they come into the classroom, they observe, they play with all the kids with or without disabilities. And then they provide coaching to the teachers on how to implement different strategies in the classroom that are therapeutic, like something like speech cueing or sensory tasks for kids who might have ot needs, and things like that. So my experience at Rhys really opened my eyes to why I think inclusion should start from the very beginning. I mean, as adults, if you really reflect on what our life looked like, when we were growing up, especially I grew up in Mexico, which is probably like 10 years behind us, or even more so on inclusion, disability awareness. I grew up going to school with any child with a disability. And if they if I did, it was undiagnosed. And so as far as being around children with severe disabilities, I didn't see that. And so I have you start reflecting to on what those conversations look like with adults. So they my parents ever talk to me about differences. If I saw someone in a wheelchair when I stare. And if I stared What was I thinking? So there was, I didn't have that experience growing up. And so to me, it took intentional, unintentional effort to be like, Wait, why? Why are they not included? Why don't I have friends who have a disability? Why don't I see people with disabilities more often. And so I, it was kind of a shift in mindset that I had to intentionally come to. And so being at the right school, the youngest you can be as 12 month, you're naturally in that environment, where 50% of your peers are different than you, whether that's physically that's in communication styles, in many, many, many different ways. In the teachers are also equipped on not only encouraging, just love and nurture in their classrooms, but really unintentionally breaking down those barriers as far as curiosity because kids ask questions. And so many times you see, like, on the street, for example, a kid asked her mom, like, why is that kid in a wheelchair and the moms like, don't look, don't let walk away. They doing that the kids learning like, Oh, this is weird. Like, I shouldn't talk to that person like so at the high school on and just inclusion in general. We talked about those differences, we celebrated those differences. So just as far as social emotional growth, there's so many opportunities in preschool to really lay that groundwork on being an empathetic, empathetic human being so as teachers modeling what those interactions look like, answering those questions in a direct explicit, positive way, pointing out that we're all different. So yes, this person might need and device to communicate, but how great they're talking to you through a device and in the way that maybe you learn it differently to so we make sure that all kids understand that we all have potential, we all learn different ways. And it's just so natural because at that age kids are sponges. So if they see the adults that they look up to treating everyone the same, then for them, it's all the same too. And you end up seeing such beautiful relationships that are created between the kids just naturally, we there's a fine line between kids who like want to overly help. So that's another thing you have to kind of navigate. But the friendships are authentic, and they look out for each other. And a big piece of inclusion, they actually a speaker named Eric Carter, I went to one of his presentations. I love Eric Carter, he's so he's phenomenal. But he said that inclusion is on inclusion without belonging and for belonging, you need to be missing, your presence needs to be missed, or you're just in the classroom, or in church or wherever you might be. And so in our classrooms, the kids would be like, where's x and x, like, we they're not here, I missed them, and they asked about them. And if they're sick, they would sing songs about wish, hoping that they were feel better. So just a beautiful and natural way for kids to start learning that you can be friends with anybody, even if that child is significantly different than you or speaks differently than you or walks differently than you. So that's I think the most like the biggest takeaway is that social emotional piece, but on top of that, to being in preschool is probably the easiest time where you can differentiate instruction. Obviously, when you're in calculus, that might look a little different, or a lot different, or AP Lit, and all those different ones when you're in high school. But in preschool, in my opinion, differentiating instruction to meet the kids needs is pretty basic. So for example, if I'm reading a book, and I have 12 kids and one child has Down syndrome, and they at that point might not have the way to communicate verbally, but they're able to reciprocate. receptively demonstrate their knowledge, let's say that their goal is that they're working on color identification. And then I have a student who's quote unquote, neurotypical who is working on like retelling stories, predictions, all that very different skills, right? Color identification, and then like higher level thinking on predict prediction, I can have a book and go up to a child with Down Syndrome and say, like, Oh, I see lots of colors in this picture touched with red. And so they're using their finger and they're touching the Red Hat, or whatever it might be and check, I just met one of their goals. They might need some cueing if that's where they're at. But I'm using the same book that I can then go to appear and be like, Whoa, what do you think is gonna happen next? Or what just happened? He told me the beginning of the story. So you're able to use classroom items in a way that that is easier and more natural? Because the other kids aren't being like, Oh, that was a question that's not appropriate. It's all the same to them at that age. So it's definitely such a crucial time for all kids with and without disabilities, to learn from each other, learn from adults, and to learn those academic skills and skills that even as adults, we are still working on like emotional regulation, waiting patiently in line things I'm like, Did I did I learned that in preschool, because I'm not the most patient person. But just things that we can really lay that foundation for kids and preschool is the time the most critical time I think for

that is is the right school, only a preschool?

Yes, it goes over pre K, which so many parents always tell us that they wish that we could like open a high school elementary and

is it a? So is it like a charter network or something or private school or

it's technically a private schools nonprofit. And so there is a tuition that parents have to pay. But 50% of those operating costs are covered by fundraising. And a big part of that too, which I think I was, I know I was lucky is that the rice bowl really values, their teachers. And many times you find that in preschools, teachers are paid even less than teachers in a public school setting, which is already not a lot of money for what we do. And so the rice school was very, very, like, understanding of that and wanted teachers to get paid the same as if they were a kindergarten teacher in a public school versus a preschool teacher. I think there's a common misconception that preschool is easier, and preschool is just fun, and you're dancing, and it's colors. And people don't really understand why preschool so important. And so the rise school, made sure that teachers felt valued and that financial way, which I know people don't say they don't choose their jobs, for their money, and all of that, and we did from our heart. But if you're going to live a comfortable life and you do something that you love, you want to feel like your work is valued. And even though teachers don't get paid a lot, being at a preschool that values you and tries to pay you like a regular teacher and a public school is huge. And that wouldn't be possible without fundraising. And also, I mean, paying for therapists is expensive and so it's it's definitely a challenge just because it's a constant drive. I mean, we have people hired whose entire job is fundraising and those donor relations to make that happen. In the best case scenario, all preschools would be inclusive, and it just wouldn't even matter. And we're hoping that with more and more people that understand that can be a possibility. But I think we're, we're years away from that still, I think.

So what's one thing? Let me just let me share what I have in my mind. So our audience is mostly educators, school leaders, and families of children with disabilities. And and the the common thread is everyone wants inclusion, right. So from your perspective, whether that is through like the, you know, the viewpoint of the role that you have for the US Act, or as an inclusive educator, or as, whatever your viewpoint, what would be your advice to? What would what would be your advice to people who, you know, want to see inclusive education move forward, where wherever they wherever their children go, but just they can't seem to get traction?

That's a hard question. I only

bring hard questions. I'm sorry.

I wish I had like the perfect answer that I wish it was that easy to really break down, I think if we're able to find that right person in the district is open to professional development. And they might not have time or know where to look. But if if you happen to find a conference that has this information, or free webinars, or anything like that, being able to send that out to anyone in that district that you think might listen, and maybe attach a study that shows the benefits of, of inclusion, and really start showing everyone why it's so important, because teachers, I mean, most teachers are wanting to learn new things and are on podcasts like yours, and are having me follow Instagram accounts where they see all this happened. And they might want to do it. And maybe they're already doing it, and they're not feeling supported. So back to that original topic that we talked about. I really think that the people that we need to target more so our school administrators, superintendents, little boards, and start from there. And that's hard. And we don't know who to talk to and all that. But I think that's a big piece is if you can, even if you get ignored, just try and find, send an article to the superintendent and show them why it's so important. When it comes to voting, the smaller local voting, maybe do more research on who you were voting for as far as like the school board, and all of that, because those people play a big role on this too. And I know it's also difficult to but you can set up meetings with like legislators, and the arc of Texas has tools online that you can download that gives you kind of the feel that when you go into that meeting with a political person, it kind of guides it down on like, this is why it's so important for you to do X, X and X and kind of showing them why it's so important to promote inclusion. I think starting from the top is really what's going to make a difference. Just because I do think the teachers are so passionate and they want what's best for their kids. They might just need more support when it comes to actually making it work.

That was great. Perfect. That's exactly I like it's very similar to what we say, when we ask that limit when we get asked that hard question. That's kind of like our whole that's kind of like our whole thing is is you know, changing the mindset of school leaders, administrative administrators, superintendents, principals, the people who have the power to make change. Exactly right. Louis Jenkins, thank you so much for being on the think inclusive podcast. We appreciate your time.

Thank you. It's great to be a part of it.

Thinking inclusive is written, edited in Sound Design by Tim Vegas, and is a production of MCIE Original Music by Myles credit, attention school leaders. Did you know that you can team up with the Maryland Coalition for inclusive education to promote inclusive practices in your school or district regardless of your location. MCIE has partners in Maryland, Illinois, Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and more. Joining us in this work. Our goal is to expand partnerships in every state in the US and beyond. The first step is to start a conversation with us. So visit our contact page at mcie.org/contact. And let us know that you want to transform your educational services to be inclusive of all learners. A special thanks to our patrons Kathleen T. Gabby M. Melissa H. Mark C. Cathy V. Joyner e Jared T. Aaron P. And Carol Q for their support of thinking cluesive Thanks for your time and attention and remember, inclusion always works