For me, personally, I think the most effective way that I have found is to figure out how to make it personable personal, or an individual. And that's either by showing enough examples, but they have to be examples that really speak to a person or doing some type of visitation observations and looking at how does this work? The one of the problems that I find with that approach, though, is that frequently our students respond so differently when they're in inclusive settings, or in meaningful contexts, that the assumption is that well, this kid isn't anything like the students that I'm talking about, because this is how my students act was like, yes, but if you checked and assaulted these students, and we change their context and instruction and look at them now, but it's hard to to realize that or to get people to believe that until unless they really see it. I had a One of the school districts I worked with, back in the 90s 80s, I'm sorry, even 80s, late 80s and 90s. You know, we we brought in a parent and, and her daughter, older daughter, to talk to principals about this and your principals who were, you know, you're talking with a law, we're talking about what needs to be done. We're talking about policies and procedures, and how do you work with your teachers. But then we had them present on their story about before and after this young woman being being included in educational contexts. And listening to them, I had principals come up afterwards and say, I got it, let's do this, let's do this now. Because they, they responded to the personal story, and the emotions that were very clear from both the mother and and the woman. And also the the, the ability to discuss both what they were seeing in segregated settings, and how this young woman was feeling, and responding to all those best practices that were being done with her with her to her versus their reaction and what they saw what they experienced when this young woman was included. And a lot of it, you didn't have to change a lot of practice, you just had to change the context and the practice that land because of the context of the people who are in that context. So finding a way to, to link what we're talking about for people so that they have almost an emotional response here. Here's another quick story on this one. I was in a school with a principal who really wanted to be working with us. And he wasn't in one of the chosen schools yet. So he really wanted to convince us that he should be that one of the principals. And he was so proud. And we walk through his school and he had, you know, two or three classes of kids with significant disabilities. And we're walking through and he's talking to every student, you know, as we're going through and seeing all the services and we walked into the class, wonderful classes, with students with with the most significant disabilities, multiple disabilities. And this cute, adorable little girl wheeled her pink wheelchair up to him. And she's got, you know, pigtails and she's had pink ribbons that match her wheelchair. I mean, it was just was, so it was adorable. And the adults in the classroom were doing assistant eating with students, because it was lunchtime. And then there were some other students who were on the floor with some things around them. And this little girl wheeled up to the principal and started to talk to him, called him by name. And, and had this conversation and he was so proud because he knew her name and, and he could respond and was like, it was great. He was really, really happy. And then we walked out. And he was like, really wanted me to reinforce them. And I thought, yeah, this is great. I'm so glad you can do this. But I just have one question. And he's like, what's, what is it? Am I I can answer this. And he said, but nice, Ed, why does she have to wait for you to walk into the classroom, to have somebody to talk to? And he, he just stops like he turned white? And, you know, his eyes opened and he kind of like stammered a little, like, you know, stop recording was just it's just a question I've got now and then we kind of went on and I reinforced him for some other things. And the next time I was in that district, like no more than three weeks later, he invited me back to the school. And he had just he had moved all of those kids into gen ed classes. Oh, my God, they all had somebody to talk with, you know, into into experience things with. And I mean, that was his aha moment. It was like, of course, you why aren't we doing this? And that teacher became the star of inclusive education in that district, because she got it right away, because she saw the differences in kids behaviors, communication, interaction, attention, be I mean, just across the board, so soon as they when people see it, that changes their mindset, whether they're a principal of special ed teacher, a gen ed teacher, I mean, just like when they see it and can really see the before and after. That's the mind shift change. So however, we can get that information to people or that experience that I think is one of the most important things we can do. Because once they do Leave, they want whatever information you can give them. Because I think you're right. Every educator wants to do the best they can for every student.