riverside_nickiiskander.rmt__ aug 1, 2024 001_radical_massage the

2:57PM Aug 7, 2024

Speakers:

Krista Dicks

Keywords:

massage

work

massage therapist

people

clinic

days

women

month

money

business

clients

playlist

year

love

thought

call

reopen

ontario

profession

run

Nikki, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you for having me,

Nikki. I want to share how I've sort of learned about you in the massage world, and what prompted me to invite you. I will be honest that I have wanted to invite you on the podcast since about 2020 what I saw an image that you shared on a massage therapy forum on Facebook, and it basically was this image of Scrooge McDuck, you know, swimming in riches. And you had posted that you had just earned $10,000 in six days as an RMT, and you were very encouraging that, like, this is possible. Like, I'm, I'm so proud of myself, and it is, it is possible for you, too. And I just kind of screenshot that, and then let it, like, sit and I and then I started to hear more about you on other podcasts, and started to piece together, like, this Nicky that I screenshot is the Nicki that's on these other platforms and podcasts, and so it's just taken me. It's probably just nerves, really, to get in contact with you, but that was originally how I was inspired to reach out to you. Can you share more about what that meant to you and what that image was all about?

I gotta be honest, I don't, I don't remember. Okay, it's $10,000 in six days. I don't That sounds inaccurate.

So 16 days, it was 16, oh, okay, 16 days, yes,

oh yeah, yeah. That makes more sense. It was like 10,000 to six days. I would be very proud of that. I don't think that happened. Okay, 16, yeah. That makes more sense. So that probably sounds like I would have worked 16 days in the month. So it wasn't, it wasn't 16 days in a row, and it wasn't, you know, five days a week over the course of 16 days. It's, I work four days a week, so that probably would have taken four weeks, but, yeah, okay. I'm vaguely remembering this. It's, it basically would have been, I had a $10,000 a month, essentially, yeah, yeah. I love that, that Scrooge McDuck. It's like, it's a gift that I use a lot anytime a massage therapist, like, celebrates raising the rates or having a really good month. I pop in that, that gift, it's Scrooge McDuck jumping into a pool of coins and then swimming around.

Yeah,

I just really like that one. Sorry, what was your original question? Like,

Well, I'm just, I mean, that was my inspiration to contact you, because I was like, wow. Like, this is an example of a massage therapist succeeding in the profession and hitting these, these high numbers, and only, like you said, working 16 days, and I had only screenshot that, but not realized that you were also in Ontario, so you're a registered massage therapist. I would say that sometimes in the profession, we see those numbers, maybe more coming from the States, and not necessarily in Ontario. So I just found it really inspiring. And as we discussed just before, recording like you're usually sought out as as an income cheerleader for massage therapists, and so that's essentially what I want to talk about today. I mean, I've got so many other questions. But why, like, why are you such an advocate for, like, those kinds of numbers in massage therapy as you're in your career? Oh, that

is a good question. So I my mission in life, my sort of raison d'etre is women's empowerment, just wanting more for women, wanting more autonomy, wanting more. I love seeing women in leadership. I love seeing women running companies. I love seeing women millionaires and billionaires. And it starts with us. It's We can't just sit around waiting for other people to give it to us. We have to go out and get it. And I honestly think that the biggest contributor to the gender pay gap, which is the gap between what men earn and what women earn, even for doing the same job. I really believe, to my core, that the biggest contributor is women. It's it's us. Don't apply for job like studies show that we don't apply for jobs unless we meet all of the criteria, whereas men will apply for jobs if they meet half of the criteria. So they're already getting more of the job offers. Studies show that we don't negotiate job offers when we get the job, and then we don't negotiate. You know, if you have, like, a regular job, or you're an employee, we don't negotiate at that three month mark, six month mark, one year mark. We don't advocate for ourselves, and we don't if we're self employed, we don't raise our rates. And if we're not self employed, we don't ask for raises. And I think this all contributes to holding us back. And I think there's, there's so much socialization about around being a woman or being raised and socialized as a girl and as a woman, that there's something wrong and evil and greedy about having money. And all I've ever wanted to do is be an example of what's possible. I'm one of the rare ones who actually. Got into massage therapy primarily for the money. Nobody believes me, what I tell them this, but I used to work in the music industry, and it was a ton of fun, but there was no money, no job security, no upward mobility. I panicked, and I quit, and I knew something needed to change, and I decided to go back to school and become a massage therapist. I almost became a lawyer, but I decided they worked too hard, more than I wanted to work. And I was really drawn to massage therapy because it's physical I like that. It's physically demanding, and I like that. I get to listen to music all day so and really, I just needed a job. I was tired of, you know, begging for jobs that paid like $30,000 a year in the music industry, and I couldn't even get those. I figured if I become a massage therapist here in Ontario, because it's covered by insurance, that I would have something that everyone wants, and it's basically free or heavily subsidized for most and it's woman dominated. For the first time in my life, I would actually be rewarded for being a woman in my career, which had never happened before. I was so used to being punished for being a woman, so I went to school, and I got out, and I started working, and then I started noticing these patterns and these ways of speaking and the ways that therapists were running their businesses, because even a lot of clinics are run by massage therapists, and I was working underneath these people, and I would hear things like, you know, I don't, I don't want to be greedy. I just want to help people. It's not about the money. And, you know, I can't charge someone for canceling because they have a good reason, or because they're sick, or because their kid got sick, or their dog got sick, and I can't charge them for that. And, you know, have a heart, have compassion and and I just, I saw how this was just really holding so many people back, and how I did not want that for myself, and I was going to go on my own. I was going to do things differently, and I was going to celebrate my wins and show people, specifically other women, but any massage therapist who will listen that you can earn excellent money and you can have compassion and you can have a heart, and I don't feel an ounce of guilt for the money that I've earned, because I've earned it doing meaningful work for people who really appreciate it. So that's the long answer. I

love that when, when you mentioned that you saw job security in in the profession, and you you also you gave your reason that you know, it is a regulated healthcare profession, but it's also heavily, like most of massage therapy can be covered by insurance. So that's interesting, that you saw that benefit. I'll be honest, that I been in it for 18 years. I mean, covid happened. I didn't see the job security. I knew I had a good profession that I liked having the control over that versus, like a nine to five corporate job. But I didn't see the job security until covid happened, and that completely solidified it for me. And when I saw so many people jumping ship, and I was it was really bizarre, and they obviously have their own reasons, and maybe they were one foot in, one foot out anyway, and they were just looking for that excuse. But I didn't see it until we were allowed to go back to work, when so many other people weren't. I definitely solidified, like myself as a massage therapist once I realized that, like, we're not going any anywhere anytime soon, but I was really surprised that. I'm really glad that you saw that early on. I knew being subsidized, it helps a lot, but I also think it depends, like I work in Ottawa, obviously there's a lot of government employees. We have a lot of benefits here, and that is a huge advantage, I think, to where you're also working, you're based in Toronto, I feel like there's probably a lot of really wonderful benefits within that city as well. Yeah,

for sure, 2020 was a total game changer. I mean, like I said, I chose massage therapy primarily for job security. And then in March 2020 the whole world shut down. And I definitely had a moment where I thought, okay, great, nobody's ever going to want to massage again. I can't do this job from six feet away, right? My treatment rooms, I work for my house. My treatment room is seven by 13 feet, seven and a half by 13 feet, so it's tiny. And I thought, okay, nobody's going to want to be in a tiny room with me breathing in the same air, breathing on each other. You know, when I'm working on their neck, I'm six stitches for their face. I was like, That's it. That's it. That's the end. That's the end of the profession. That's the end of massage therapy. You know, at least for another year. I didn't think that when we were actually officially shut down, was I shut down a little earlier than we were mandated. I was quite cautious during the pandemic, and then we were mandated to close. And I thought, No, we we're not going to be able to work for 2020 like I thought, the government, or whoever was in charge, the Ministry of Health, wasn't even going to let us reopen until 2021 like I thought, That's it. That's nine months of no income. Like I have to figure something out. I was looking at law schools. It was like I got to change careers. And it turns out, here in Ontario, because we're healthcare providers, we were considered essential workers, and we were only mandated to close for two months. Yeah, so I shut my business down and stayed in contact with my clients. I had a newsletter, and I was still on social media, and I was updating people, saying, Hey, I you know your guess is as good as mine. I don't know what's going on, but I was assuring them that once I would be given permission to reopen, that I would and that I would follow all of the safety precautions, and that they didn't have to worry about me going anywhere, because I live here, I live in my workspace. So I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have to worry about commercial rent. I didn't have to worry about, you know, closing down my space because it's just it's in my house, that room is still there. So if I'm allowed to reopen, I can do that tomorrow. I just need, you know, the masking and the tab aside, and the whatever and and so I chose to stay closed for four months. I applied for government, and that was the other thing. I decided I am not coming out of this pandemic in debt like I will not let this eat into my savings. I'm gonna get resourceful. And I sold stuff on Facebook marketplace like I was selling furniture. I got government funding, which I was very grateful to get, here in Canada, and I got a part time job, and I made it work, and then I was allowed to reopen. I had people reaching out. They were like, put me first on your wait list. Like, make sure I'm the first person you call. There was such a huge demand for massage even before I reopened, which was really surprising, because I thought it would be the opposite. And I thought, you know, I'm gonna reopen, and maybe it'll be crickets, maybe nobody will come. Maybe I'll get one per day, which is great, but I can't pay my bills with that. We'll see what happens. And I ended up being absolutely slammed, fully booked with a wait list. I raised my rates twice in 2020 which I think is that's a whole other story, but a big differentiator between me and other therapists. I just think differently about this kind of thing. I kept hearing therapists in 2020 specifically saying, you know, everyone's struggling. I can't raise my rates. Like that's mean, I don't want to punish people. People are losing their jobs, people are struggling. And I had a completely opposite viewpoint. My viewpoint was, my clients have more money than ever because the ones that still had their jobs, still kept their insurance, so their insurance wasn't touched, and they weren't using their insurance because for a few months, nobody could go anywhere, do anything, so they had all this insurance money piling up. They weren't spending money on the usual things that they used to spend their money on. So they weren't spending their money on public transit. They weren't spending their money on gas. They weren't spending their money on travel, concerts, dining out Starbucks every morning, like all the things that we would just blindly spend our money on, they weren't spending their money on that, and a lot of them weren't even spending money on child care anymore. And so I figured, well, my clients have more money than they've ever had in their lives. I'm going to raise my rates. And I did it twice, and that was the beginning. I ended up working in 2020 I only worked for seven months because I had shut I had traveled for the first part of the year, so I was traveling for the first six weeks of the year, and then I shut my business for four months. So I only worked for seven months in 2020 in my masala practice, and I earned as much as I did in 2019 Yeah, because I had raised my race, but I made so much more money in such in so much less time. And then I was like, well, let's just keep the screen rolling. And I raised them again in 2021 I raised them again in 2022 and then before I knew it, I was making six figures, working part time. Yeah.

Can you describe what your schedule looks like when you say you work part time? You mentioned the travel. There's so so much that I want to get into, and it will go all over the place. And then I mean, like, just describe your schedule, and then, and then travel. And then I want to know, like, where the motive? Like, where the motivation, how you just discovered that, like, you needed to raise your rates, what changed for you in business in order for you to know that you need to raise the rates. So what does your schedule look like now?

Yeah, good question. So basically, I work four days a week. I work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and so that's a three day weekend. Every weekend I don't work Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and I take around three months of vacation, so around 12 weeks. I usually travel around two months of the year, and then the rest of that time is just little getaways here and there, like going to the cottage for a weekend, or, you know, staying at home, taking some time off, and, you know, calculating for sick days and stuff like that. Yeah, so I consider that part time. I'm not sure what the actual definition of part time versus full time is. When it comes to massage, I don't really track my hands on hours the way that a lot of people do. I just say part time, because when you actually look at the calendar year, I take more days off in a year than I work. So there are 365, days in a year I'm not working. About 200 of those days. Yes. So to me, I consider that part time. I don't know what the actual definition is, right,

and still earning six figures by taking more time off than than working that is super inspiring, I hope to a lot of listeners. Maybe it's going to piss a few of them off, though, as well. I feel like you have some experience

with Well, I'm used to that. That's not new.

And then what about for travel? What's on your your agenda? Where have you you've been recently? So

this year's a little different. Last year was a big year for travel. For me. I visited seven countries last year. So I did in the beginning of the year. I usually take all of January and half of February off to travel. So last year, I did. I started the year off with Mexico, Guatemala and Belize, and then in the summer, I took three weeks and went to the UK. So I did England, Wales and Scotland. And that was so I could go to concerts with a friend, because I'm a huge music fan. So we flew over to follow blur and pulp, which are two of our favorite 90s Britpop bands, and then I took a couple little trips to the states. So I went to Cleveland for a baseball game, and then I spent my birthday in New York City. So that was last year. This year, I was planning to do a month in South America. And then, unfortunately, my cat got sick, and now he needs medication every 12 hours, and so if anybody follows me on social media, you'll know my cat. His name is Dave Grohl. That is his real name, and he's just my absolute heart and soul. And you know, unfortunately, he's probably in his final year of life, so I've decided to put a pause on travel until it's his time, and then when he goes, then I'll plan a big trip, and I'll get out of here for like, a month. So this year's just been little, little trips. I have a friend who I actually met her last year while I was in Mexico. She's from England, and we were planning on traveling together, and then I told her about my cat, and I said, I can't go anywhere. And she said, Okay, well, I've never been to Canada, so she just came here and stayed with me for two weeks, and we did all the things that you could do in Toronto, and we did Niagara Falls, and we spent a weekend in Niagara on the Lake, and then we went to New York City again. So I've been doing little getaways, kind of three days here and there, but nothing too major because of my, my precious cat.

And then for your, for your rates, you mentioned that you worked at a clinic, and when you're working with a clinic owner with that kind of language that are like, even colleagues who have that language of like, I can't I can't charge for this cancelation. I can't raise my rates. I mean you as the as one of the independent contractors or employees, you're kind of suffering on that as well, because they're not holding the clinic accountable to those rate increases or the cancelation fees, and then you're suffering for it. Because even if you want to step forward and be like, Well, no, this is like, was my hour and and I need to, need to charge that cancelation fee. Then kind of the other colleagues or the clinic owner might not look, look to that as like, like, the same, like you said. They might be like, That's not, not fair. You don't know compassion. So then what was the, what did the transition look like for you to go into your your home, and what inspired you to really take on this new mindset for business.

Yeah, I I worked for two clinics and a spa before I went on my own. So I was out practicing for about two and a half years before I went solo. And I worked at one clinic that had been in operation by the time I started. They had already been in operation for 10 years, and they did not require a credit card to hold appointments for any kind of prepayment. I mean, I guess they technically have a cancelation policy, but it was, it was more of a suggestion or a request than a policy, because I don't think ever in their lives, did they ever uphold it and and I lost a lot of money, and the clinic lost a lot of money because of people canceling on short notice for all kinds of reasons, every reason under the sun. But the point is, the clinic had no way of protecting their time or my time, and and I looked around and I saw that this was pretty normal, and I found it really frustrating, and I would speak to management about it, this isn't okay, and nothing would change. And I eventually got frustrated and quit that place. I did work at another place where I was an independent contractor, and it was very well managed, and the owner required credit cards on file for everyone to book. Had excellent receptionists. The booking was all on the phone. It wasn't online, and the receptionist would clearly outline the cancelation policy, and so people knew that they left their card and that they would get charged if they couldn't show but there was and the owner would say to me, if somebody canceled on short notice, because I'm I'm an independent contractor, technically, it's my call, right? So I could choose whether I want to charge them or not, and often I did. And. But there was still kind of pressure not to, because if I charge somebody and they get upset, then they could go on a tirade. They could leave negative reviews, you know, on Google, Facebook and Yelp. They could call their credit card and cancel the charge. And if that happens enough times like, let's say, 10 people, and they all have a Visa card, and they all call and cancel the charge, then that can reflect poorly on the business, and maybe visa will no longer support that business, so now people can't pay with their visa. So I was allowed to make the call, but there was definitely pressure not to, sometimes, depending on the situation, and I felt for her, you know, it's, it's, that's the hard part of running a business is you try to lay out these boundaries, and you you try to have these these rules. And turns out, a lot of people think that they're the exception to the rule, and a lot of people think that their time is more valuable than ours. And it was, I don't judge her. I don't judge her at all for that. It was really hard. And when I went out on my own, I thought, you know, I want to do this differently, and I'm not gonna lie, my first, I think, year, maybe two years in solo practice, I did not require credit cards on file to book. I did have cancelation policy. It was clearly articulated. But I did not require cards on file for the same reason that other people don't. I was scared. I was scared that people weren't going to want to leave their card, that they weren't going to trust that their card details were safe, or that they were going to see that they had to leave their card and choose not to book with me. And I was scared of that, and so I didn't have a card on file for like, a good two years working for myself, and obviously lost a ton of money because of that. And and I will never forget, there was one day, it was December, which, as an Ontario therapist, you know, is typically the busiest month of the year, because that's, that's the final month where people can really use up their insurance. So we get the insurance rush of people trying to cash in their insurance money before it runs out at the end of the calendar year, and I was slammed, and I had a huge waiting list. And somebody booked a two hour massage, which is the longest treatment I offer and the most expensive. And she booked a two hour massage, and I think it was even in the evening, which is like a prime time spot, and it was a brand new client, and she no showed, she just ghosted me, vanished into the ether as if she didn't exist. I called her, I emailed her, I invoiced her, never heard from her again. She just reserved that block of my time, that very precious and expensive block of my time, and chose not to honor it, and just vanished. And that night, I called my practice management software, and I said, upgrade me, because I was on the cheap version where you couldn't require credit cards. And I said, upgrade me. I'm taking cards immediately. And I made that change, and I never looked back. And now I'm not scared at all that people are going to turn away once they see that when you go to my online booking or if you call me to book that I require a credit card. That doesn't scare me at all, because the only people that I'm turning away are people who don't want to be held accountable and don't want to pay me for my time, and I don't want to work with those people. So now I see it as a form of protection and a great way to weed out the wrong types of people. It's

a great gatekeeper technique, for sure. I love that again. I hope that can inspire people to start using, yeah, a credit card on file. I mean, like, it's one of our policies now for online booking, which is wonderful. And then one of the things that you're really you again, advocate for is that a new massage therapist hires a business coach, not another massage therapist to to talk to them about what they necessarily did in their their business but very specifically, a business coach, and that has obviously enhanced your practice. Um, can you describe like, who did you choose as your business coach? And why did you go with a business coach?

Yeah. So I hired a business coach. My business coach. Her name is Rebecca Diaz avedo. She's American. She's from Salt Lake City, Utah. She used to be massage therapist. She used to run a prenatal massage clinic, which is Salt Lake City is the best city in the world to run a prenatal massage clinic, because it's more main town, so everybody's pregnant all the time. So she ran a successful clinic, and then she started business coaching, and then she closed her practice and turned to coaching full time. And she's a beast. She's the best in the business. I've met a lot of business coaches. I've had calls with a lot of business coaches. I've even worked with a couple other coaches. Absolutely nobody has her track record. Her specialty is taking solo therapist to six figures and beyond. And I'm friends with a lot of the people who have worked with her, and a lot of them are earning 150k plus us, which is real money working in solo practice. Like it's, it's, she creates champions. She really does. And I. Stumbled upon her on Facebook when I was first, when I first opened my private practice, I worked very part time. It was three days a week, and I still had a job on the side as an independent contractor, because I wanted that safety net. And I found her on Facebook. And she has a Facebook group. It's called The Art of building a successful massage practice. And she used to do these weekly live Q and A videos. So every Sunday night, she would go live on Facebook. People would type underneath her video, they would type their questions, their business questions, and she would just answer them. And I was watching her videos for a few weeks, and I thought, okay, she gives really solid advice. Like, I really this sounds like she knows what she's talking about. And I decided when I opened my practice that I would do it completely on my own for a month, just to see what happens, just to see what my baseline is. And so I was working three days a week. I opened in January, 2018 I worked for a month. I was getting about like three to five people a week across three days. So like one to two people per day, which I thought was incredible, because I didn't have any kind of strategy. I had a crappy DIY website that I built myself. I had online booking. I work from my house, and it's on, like, a little residential street, so I didn't have a sign, I didn't have an awning, I didn't have any kind of storefront or presence that I was new to the neighborhood, and I really had no marketing strategy, and I didn't do any kind of marketing aside from, you know, contacting a few of my previous clients that I worked with at a clinic, and, you know, creating, like, a Facebook and Instagram business page and, like, that was it. That was basically my marketing strategy. And my first day in business, I had two clients, and I was absolutely thrilled with that. I thought that was amazing. I was like, people are coming to my house and they're paying me to touch them. Like, that's incredible. And I can't live off of this. I can't live off of one appointment per day, especially back in the day. Back then, I was only charging 90 bucks an hour, which I thought was so much money, and quickly learned that it's not, um, and so I did it alone for, I think, about six weeks, and I was like, okay, something needs to change. Like, I don't, I don't want to guess. I'm very impatient, and I don't like guessing. I will always, you know, spend money to save time, because I think there's nothing more valuable than her time. And and I found her, and I thought she was amazing, and I booked a free discovery call, which Everyone now knows is really a sales I booked the call, and this was back in the day when she was just a one woman show, and I got her on the phone, and I just fell in love with her. I thought like she's no nonsense, she's straightforward, she's intelligent, she's done it before, she's helped other people, and we just really hit it off. And I gave her my credit card details and jumped in. She has an eight week coaching program, and I did that in March 2020, and by the time I had finished the program, I had tripled my business. So

that might be the example like, right when I caught you in december 2020 and took that screenshot. That was like the first year that you had been in the program, in the coaching and then, and then, that was the result of that success,

I had hired her in 2018 and then 2020 The reason why I started seeing those numbers is because for the first several years of my business, I was only working three days a week, right? So I wasn't going to make, you know, $100,000 working three days a week. But eventually my business just kept growing and getting stronger, and I raised my rates like five times in four years, I think, and then eventually it just it. It stopped making sense for me to work for other people. I was still working for somebody else. I was working at a clinic like one day a week in 2020 and then the whole world shut down. And when I reopened, my practice exploded. And I have raised my rates twice that year, and it was just it didn't really make any sense for me to work for somebody else for half the money. So in 2020, is really when I went like 100% solo. I think it was at the end of that year, and that was probably December. I think I made $12,000 that year, that that month, actually, by the end of it. I mean, I think it was, I was celebrating. I think it was my first five figure month, because I had just gone 100% solo, I had added one more day, so now I was working four days instead of three days. I wasn't working anywhere else. It was just me. I was completely self sufficient. And I think I made $12,000 working four days a week in the month of December. And for Canadians who are listening that is not including tax. I'm begging you to please stop including sales tax in your numbers. That is pre sales tax. I collected more than that. Yeah,

that's awesome. On top of, like, your success as a six figure RMT, I mean you still, you really talk about how you because you have this. Income potential now, I mean, you're also like a giver, like, you know, you can't say that you don't help people, because in every month, you choose a charity, and you give back to the community based on on your, on your your client intake that month, don't you? Yep.

So I donate a portion of every massage to charity this month, the month that we're recording this interview, is June, which is pride month. So I've chosen the 519, which is a local LGBTQ plus organization here in the church Wellesley village, which is our Gay Village. Throughout the year, I usually choose the Parkdale Food Bank, which is Parkdale is the name of my neighborhood in Toronto. So the Parkdale Food Bank, I always get to them, excuse me, and and then usually in December, which is typically the busiest month, I choose a women's shelter. I always try to do I try to choose charities that are aligned with my values. So women's, women's rights, gay rights, and the food bank, I mean, they, I just think they do such good work. And Parkdale is, is actually one of the lowest income neighborhoods in the city, which is another argument that I hear, you know, I can't raise my rates because I live in, you know, a low income neighborhood. I'm like, so do I, and I'm one of the most massage most expensive massage therapists in the city. I'm about $50 an hour, more than average. And and I also, I try to choose charities that aren't political or religious, because I just, I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I don't want to get into any trouble. It's hard to do anything these days without offending people. So yeah,

amazing. As you're like, as you're working in your practice, you work from home, and you are, you know, you're a female. Do you want to discuss how and like, if anybody's interested in working from home, it is a female, dominant profession. What advice do you have for staying safe working out of your home.

Yeah? My gosh. I mean, this could be its own episode. I will try to keep it brief, yeah, safeties is a huge factor. I work from home. I live in a house that's, it's a triplex, so it's three apartment units in the same building. So there are other people who live in this house, but when I'm working, I'm alone, I will live on the main floor, and nobody's here when I'm working, and sometimes nobody's in the house when I'm working, because my housemates have lives, and it's kind of it can be kind of a sketchy neighborhood at times. There's a lot of poverty and mental instability, and and I'm a woman, and I'm five feet tall, and I work out every day, but I can't overpower most men, and so Safety has always been a huge feature for me. So some of the things that I do, I I only work with cisgender men, which is men who were people who are assigned male at birth and still identify as male. I only work with them through direct referral, so they have to be referred to me through somebody I already know or an existing client, ideally a woman who's referring them. So I work with a lot of husbands and brothers and fathers and things like that, but about 5% of my practice is men. The other 95% is women and people in between. So that's the biggest safety feature. Is just heavily vet the men that I work with. Some people call it sexism or discrimination. I call it statistics. Just open a newspaper. I mean, like 99% of violent crimes are perpetrated by men so and I don't want them in my house. And then there's also, massage therapy is often kind of conflated with sex work, you know, central massage. And I don't want there to be any confusion, and I don't want someone on my table who's seeking a service that I don't offer. So I try to really present myself very professionally. I have professional web design, I have professional photography. I make sure not to share any photos publicly of me, you know, in a bikini or and I this. I'm all about like, Girl power and women wearing whatever they want. And this is my business, and people can sexualize it, so I'm very cautious to, you know, cover up. And I also think this is really important, a feature that a lot of people don't really fully understand. Being expensive is a safety feature. I've heard so many horror stories about women being caught alone in a room with a man who gets aggressive or, you know, touches himself in front of them, or expects some kind of sexual service. And then I look at their website, and they're so cheap and they don't require a credit card on file, and they. Stock photography, and they don't have any kind of niche or targeted messaging. And I say this not to victim blame, but to empower people. It is not at all surprising to me that these types of people are contacting them because you're not taking the steps to protect yourself. I I think that, honestly, being expensive is a safety feature, because people look at my website, they see the professionalism. They see that it's well designed. They see that in order to even request an appointment, they have to leave their first name, last name, phone number, email address and credit card number to even ask to see me. And they see that at minimum, as as of this recording, I'm going to charge them $170 plus tax. That's, that's where I start for an hour. If they're looking for something that I don't offer, or they're going to run, they're like, they're going to see that no, this is, I run a tight ship, and I mean business. And I flat out say on my website, like, it's for women. You know, my practice is for women and trans people, so all of that, those are like my safety features that I just have just existing on my website. That's before I even contact somebody. And then I still do, on occasion, get men calling and emailing, asking for massage, and I just say, No, I There are so many other massage therapists in the area, there's a clinic around the corner that's been there for over 10 years. Like, I just looked, actually, on Google Maps yesterday, I just did a search for massage in my area, there are like 20 people within like, a 15 minute walk. Like, I cannot stress this enough, especially to the women, it's okay to say no. Like, if your spidey sense starts tingling or you are unsure of someone's intentions or what they're really looking for. I feel like there's this. I feel like women don't even see saying no as an option. And to me, that's like my default setting. To me, I'm like, no, no. You have to earn the right to come in here. Like I have to be really confident that we're a match. So I say no a lot, and they call me and they email me, and they might seem perfectly harmless, and I'll say, Hey, this is my policy. Go ahead around the corner, because it's it's just not worth it, I see. And if you go in these Facebook groups, if you're active Facebook at all, and you go into these massage therapist Facebook groups, and I've seen so many screenshots of people sharing like text messages or emails from men who are looking for massage, and they'll say things that, to me, are so obviously signs of men who are seeking sex work, like they'll say things like, Oh, I'm a trucker, and I'm just in town for the weekend, and, you know, I really just want focused attention on my glutes, you know, quads and abdomen. And these women who are working alone, and the guy wants a massage at like, 10pm and they're like, oh, okay, I guess you don't have to say yes to this. Like best case scenario, you know, he's harmless, and you get 100 bucks, but like, worst case scenario, you end up in his trunk. That's just not worth it to me. So I'm picky with my clientele, and I really think there's something really powerful, and all of life, I promise you, all of life, will get infinitely better once you get comfortable with saying no, because the person who has the ability to walk away from the situation holds all the power. And this is true in business. This is true in dating. This is true in interpersonal relationships. If you have the confidence and the ability to walk away from the situation, then you don't ever have to settle. Yeah, that's

awesome with with your expertise and you, you know, and you wanting to help educate new massage therapist. Do you still offer your course, either independently or through the Con Ed Institute? Yeah.

So I have a course. Thank you for asking. It's called, make money as a massage therapist. It used to be called, what did we call it, before the new massage therapist toolkit, and then we rebranded, but it's basically the same course. I ran it through Con Ed Institute, which is a continuing education company for massage therapists in Scarborough, which is just east of Toronto, and and it's run by Mark and Amanda, who are the two massage therapists from the two massage therapists in micron podcast, for those who listen to that, and I just pitched this course to them, and they were like, yeah, they're so cool. So they were game. And so I created this course, and it's basically, it's basically a business course for people who are current therapists, who are currently studying in school, or they're fresh out of school, or maybe they've been out for a few years, and they're kind of burnt out, or don't really know what they want. And it's everything I wish I knew when I was a new graduate. It is specifically designed for people who are not self employed, so for people who don't work for themselves. So it's designed for employees and independent contractors. And I know if you're an independent contractor, at least here in Ontario, you are technically self employed, but most independent contractors work, you work under another business, and it feels like you have a boss. And so my course is designed for them, and it's you. It's basically, it's like, it's like a business course and kind of a self esteem course for a new massage therapist. I tell people, you know, green flags to look out for in a clinic, red flags to look out for in a clinic. And as we already touched upon, like, one of the biggest lessons I teach is if you're applying to work somewhere, and if that clinic or spa or Studio does not require credit cards on file or some kind of prepayment in order for clients to book an appointment, don't even apply to work there, because you are going to lose so much money, and that clinic owner is scared of their clients, and you don't want to work for a business that's scared of its clients. So yeah, red flags. And then also interview tips, like how to wow people during the interview process, what to say, what not to say, how to negotiate. Because I thoroughly believe that everything's negotiable. And by the way, if clinic owners are listening to this, this isn't an us versus them. This isn't, you know, damn the man. And bring down the clinic owners, and they're all greedy. And you know, we're the ones doing all the work. I have a whole section. It's called a love letter to clinic owners. I know how hard you work. This is It's not us versus them. It's how can we work together so that everybody wins, so that the therapist is compensated adequately and has a safe and fair working environment, and so that the clinic owner makes a healthy profit, because that's the point of running a business. And then I also teach tips for client retention, like ways little the little extra touches that you can do and say in the massage room with your clientele to keep them coming back for more into and to make them really fall in love with you, not romantically. But professionally. Um, yeah, just the little things. It's, it's, it's really, it's like my baby, and I'm really proud of it. And it lives right now online. I've recorded the course. You can buy it online, con, Ed, Institute, com, slash money. And I think right now it's $250 Canadian plus tax, because this is Canada, and I it's, it's one of the projects that I'm proudest of. I run it in person and online live a couple of times, and it went really, really well, and I'll probably do it again at some point. But right now, you can purchase it online. You can watch the videos as many times as you want. And I encourage everyone to do it, because way more than $250 with the value of that, I think it's about three hours recorded, and you can watch it as many times as you want. I'm really

proud of that. I love I love that that you've provided something of value, taking that knowledge and then sharing it with other people in the profession, right from the get go to have them get off to a great start. And that's, that's really great. And then it also, I mean, it also leverages, obviously, your time, because now it's available online, you don't have to be there, live every single time to teach it. And it's earning you some extra income as well. Like, you know, on the side. It's just a nice little little perk, absolutely, one of your recent Instagram posts that I really liked, because I do follow you on Instagram, and it's just, I don't know if there's much to say about it, but it was that we can't use testimonials, client testimonials, in Ontario as registered massage therapist, but you did so creative. I just loved it. And you were like, so here's just a list of arbitrary words and and you just did this little like carousel of of words that obviously are, are just great words that may maybe you have or have not heard as feedback from your clients, can, can? I mean, if you wanted to share a little bit more about that, I loved it,

yeah. So again, if you're you know Ontario, I mean, bless, bless their hearts. The cmto, the College of therapists of Ontario, our regulatory body, we're we're heavily regulated, and it's kind of, I It's a blessing and a curse, and one of the restrictions is we're not allowed to share testimonials in our advertising. And I am not entirely clear as to what constitutes advertising. I've never paid for advertising, but I would go ahead and assume that they would consider, you know, maybe my website or my Facebook business page or my Instagram business page, forms of advertising, but I'm not entirely certain, but I also don't want to risk it. We're not allowed to share testimonials, which is a crying shame, because I've received so many excellent ones and such great, you know, online reviews and and, you know, like, you know what it's like when somebody gets off the massage table and they're just like, that was the greatest massage I've ever had, or I was in so much pain before I came in. And now, now I'm not, or, you know, I'm grieving the loss of a loved one. One, and I really needed that. And they say the most beautiful, touching things, and sometimes they say really funny things, and it really breaks my heart that we can't share that. So so I just came up with sort of a creative kind of loophole where I made a carousel, which is a series of images that you swipe through on Instagram, and I basically just said, Look, I'm not allowed to share testimonials. I can't say what my clients have said to me. So here's just a random, totally arbitrary selection of words. And I chose some words that me maybe people have said to me like, I think, what did I just say? Luxurious, transcendent, luxurious, transcendent, heavenly, best massage ever. Yeah, I got a lot of laughs. And that's the other thing I try, I try to be funny. I try to really put my personality into my marketing, because my theory, at least, is anyone can give a good massage. Like, there is no shortage of skilled massage therapists out there, especially in Ontario, because Ontario, basically, Ontario and British Columbia are like, the gold standard for massage in the entire world. Like, we're the highest educated. Um, we give good massages, and you can, you can get really good massages for way less than I charge, um, even around the corner from me. Like, so What sets me apart really is my personality. So I try to infuse that into into my marketing as much as possible. I try to make people laugh. You know, I post a lot of like cat videos and cat memes and things, just things that I find funny. It is really

important to be authentic, you know, in the places that the public might see you, and it does make a difference, like at the end of the day, people are choosing to pay more to see you, because while you're very good at what you do, but also it's your personality and the environment. And one of those features is obviously your background in music, and you wanted to listen to music all day at work, and you get to curate playlists that you obviously enjoy, but also that your clients really enjoy as well. And one of your contributions to the massage therapy community is a playlist on Spotify. You want to share that with I listen to it, I will say my clients love it. It's it always the Otis Redding part and, like, the Billie Holiday part always, like, comes on, like, later at night, which is just so fitting. And clients just go, like, this is a really good playlist. And I'm like, I didn't, I didn't create it. Yes, is very good.

I'm so happy to hear that. Yeah, I have, so I have a public Spotify account. I think my Spotify name, my name everywhere on Facebook, Instagram. I think Spotify is Nicky dot, RMT, so it's n, i C, K, I like Nicki, Minaj dot. RMT is in registered massage therapist. And yeah, I have, I have a few public Spotify playlists. So my sort of big, famous one, it's called no pan flute, because I promise everybody that they will never hear the pan flute my treatment room. That's like my kind of unofficial slogan, and it's I'm constantly adding to it. It's got to be like, I don't even know how long it is now. It's 100 500 600 songs. I don't even know hundreds and hundreds of songs, many like, 50 hours or something. I don't even know it's very long, but it's a labor of love. I started. I started creating that playlist while I was in massage school. So I enrolled in 2013 and started creating that, that playlist just from the music that I already had painstakingly uploaded to my iTunes from CD because that's what we did back in the day. I would rip CDs onto iTunes and and then I transferred it to Spotify. So I've been working on that playlist Since 2013 and I'm constantly adding to it. And it's just, it's all of my favorite music. It's relaxing music. It's all soft and soothing, but it's so damn good. And there's a lot of old soul and jazz and movie scores. I'm really proud of it. A lot of Canadian artists too, and I have some other I have some other playlists that are also open. I have actually, because of pride month, I have a I have a playlist called pride massage, and it's relaxing, soothing, lovely massage music. But all of the artists on that playlist identify as queer, so it's just a little way to kind of celebrate queer art. So I like to play that during pride month. I encourage other people to do it as well. Yeah, I'm really, I'm really proud of that playlist, and I get a lot of compliments from it. I have gotten messages from like Australia, from like massage therapists in Australia, saying that they listen to the playlist and that their clients love it. And I have, I have a friend who's a doula, and she runs a prenatal massage practice, and she also does like has doula clients on the side, like pregnant people, and she said that one of her pregnant clients asked to hear that playlist during the birthing process. Which I thought was really touching and really beautiful. So I'm proud of that playlist. Go ahead and play it. Go ahead and enjoy it. I hope you discover some new music. And if anybody asks, you know, I wouldn't mind a little credit, but yeah, that can be a little secret weapon. It's, it's relaxing massage music, and I promise, there's no Enya, and there's no hand flute, and there are no animal sounds, no whale sounds. I think the only bird there's, um, black bird by the Beatles is on there, and you can hear birds tweeting a little bit. But, you know, it's the Beatles. They

can do anything they want. Yeah, it is lovely. I know it can be a big risk sometimes putting on a a playlist blind in your massage session, so you're you're definitely going to be fine if you play no pan flute, yeah? Mm, hmm, okay, yeah, yeah. With your connection to music, I think, I think you've on more than one occasion, and of course, there's, there's a lot of confidentiality, but in our profession, but like, I do feel like you've shared a story where, like, the music world and your massage world have connected. I want to say it's Amanda Palmer and the one that you're able to be public about. Anyway. I love, love her. Her that well, the TED Talk that she does is in phenomenal and I could watch that one, like, I you tune into it. Like, every once in a while, just as like, a revamp, and then her book is fantastic. And I don't know if this is the same story, but cut, but I've heard you talk about Amanda Palmer, and then it's her story in the book. Is that you okay? Right? You find a way. Yeah, right. Oh, that's very special. Nice, excellent. What a lovely story. And really, really rewarding again for those two worlds to collide. I know there's a lot of massage therapists who do celebrity massage as well, but yeah, I think it's just more special when you can connect with with one, with somebody that you you already absolutely love and respect. You know you feel you wanted to gift that to her, I imagine, because you feel like she's given you so much as well from her music and what she does for the communities post. Yeah. Okay, awesome writers, yeah, yeah, that's it, yeah, that's it, yeah, yeah, that's it. Awesome. Well, I so appreciate your time. We covered quite a lot of ground, and I feel like it just leaves people, hopefully, to want to connect with you more, follow you on Instagram and to check out your course for the cotton Con Ed Institute. Listen to the episodes with two massage therapists and a microphone. Their podcast is wonderful, but listen to the ones with Nicky. If you're looking for a place to start, they're they're wonderful, they're relatable, and they'll make you laugh, and they'll make you think. And just, it just reaffirms what what we do. And just yeah, it gives me pause as well. Some of the Unpopular Opinions, I'm like, Oh, I never thought of it that way before, which has really been helpful as well. Some of them, I was like, Yes, I completely agree. And some of them are like, Oh, well, that's actually a really good point. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really great message to close out, Nikki, thank you so much for being here on the radical massage therapist podcast.