Episode 03: To Live and Die in L.A. (1985) - Scene-By-Scene Breakdown
12:21PM Jan 19, 2023
Welcome to Just curious media. This is let's talk movies. And I'm Jason Connell, on the show. Today I'm joined by special guest, Jake futur. Nick, Jake, welcome aboard.
I just like to say this is my first time ever on a podcast. So I'm official podcast virgin, no longer. I've heard them. I've dreamed about being on them before. But this is the first time I've actually done it. So very excited to be here.
You've heard a podcast before. That's good.
I've heard of them. Yes. There was like a time though, where I did didn't know what they were same thing with, like the cloud. I was like, I hear people talking about the cloud. But I don't know what this thing is right now. And in 2020. I know what the cloud is. I know what a podcast is. I feel like I'm pretty up to date on things.
Well, I'm happy you join me in the podcast world. So as the listeners may or may not know, probably not. We're on the same soccer team, the LA nights, shout out to my beloved team, and your fellow documentary filmmaker.
So true and film lover and film lover.
So very fitting the trifecta that we're making this happen. And the movie we'll be discussing today is to live and die in LA, the 1985 William Friedkin, action crime drama, also written by William Friedkin, and Gerald Petrovich. And so Jake, what I usually do is I very quickly give the IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes ratings if you will release date and a little few things on the film before we kind of jump into the meat of it. Alright, so the ratings for this movie is seven, I guess. Oh, yeah, ma'am. So
I'm gonna guess Rotten Tomatoes is 78%.
So no. 91% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's pretty 7.3 on IMDb. Absolutely. I mean, this movie came out November 1 1985. And Jake, it still works. This movie absolutely still works. Now, I always like to say where I first saw the movie, and obviously you as well. I did not see this movie until on DVD. And my late 20s or early 30s. Believe it or not
something about this movie must be for universal. Because I'm exactly the same way. I didn't grow up watching The Exorcist horror movies. I didn't really know who William freaken was. And then I found out about him. And yeah, it was kind of mid to late 20s living in Los Angeles. Great title, as we'll get into. But yeah, it was sort of exploring his catalogue getting into it. And this is a lesser known movie, but has a lot of things going on. So yeah, I'd
heard about it for a while. Love the title member has a kid seemed like a postcard of it. I guess I was 14. I didn't know anyone in it. And it just kind of missed my radar. And I'm kind of glad Sometimes you miss a movie. And there's a gym sitting in there. And that's part of the reason behind this podcast is to hopefully shed light on a movie that either someone's never seen, or to finally go watch it again.
I was six years old when this movie came out. So it was a little over my head for the total material that was covered.
I should have seen it. But however, I was happy to finally embrace it. And now here we are talking about on a podcast. Because since seen it I've seen it like every few years since then. I've recommended it countless times. And we'll get into some of the reasons why.
Well I've only seen it twice. I think I've seen it once the first time and then once again for this podcast. But it did not disappoint. So perfect.
So let's do the budget since you'd like guessing why don't you give me your thought on the budget?
Budget 1985. I'm gonna go with $12 million.
Cut it in half and you'll be six. It was relatively low budget.
It is budget. There is a lot of scenes in the movie where I'm like some guys just holding the camera here. There's no Steadicam, there's no second take. Yeah, there's just some shaky, it's a little low budget, but it's got a great cast a lot of people well before their time.
Exactly. And so the basic synopsis for this film is a fearless Secret Service agent will stop at nothing to bring down the counterfeiter who killed his partner? That's a pretty accurate representation. I would say.
There's a lot more going on though than just that a
lot more. Well, this is just off IMDB. real basic. One sentence I fill it in here. Okay, someone wants to know. And to your point though the cast was fantastic. And for most of them before their time, you had William Peterson in the lead, who played Richard chance. He went on to do man hunter fear he was in 1000 CSI guys, you had super young Willem Defoe who played Eric Rick masters I like to do is to first names
I never heard Eric referred to as Rick before that was a new one for me. Yeah, I was like who's who's this Rick guy? They're talking about the movie. I'm Like Oh,
and then he just wind up calling him Masters is last names are fantastic chance masters. And then he would go on to do platoon next which obviously catapulted him to.
So he was kind of unknown at the time of the making of this movie. He hadn't done anything that big.
He had done a couple of smaller movies but I think working with freak and being in this I'd venture to say that helped get in platoon. And then John Pankow. I don't know if you recognize him or not. I
definitely recognize. I don't know why I watched Matt about you when I was like nine years old, but for whatever reason it was on and
that's all I know him from. That's it. In this movie,
I thought he looks like someone else. I thought he was a character from like aliens or commando or predator or one of those like 80s action movies. And then I looked him up on IMDb. And I'm like, no, that's just the guy from Matt about you. That was the weird friend.
He thought it was Lance Henriksen or something who's in Terminator and aliens?
Sure. He kind of looks like a generic guy. But then I just thought was weird also that it's the guy from quantum leap. That's the lawyer like it's
to Dean Stockwell is fantastic. But it's to like
highly recognizable characters from major franchises that will happen 20 years later. So every time they're in a scene together, you're like, this is kind of weird, even though it's not weird at the time.
That's true. It's a good point. Now Dean Stockwell also did Paris, Texas, the amazing fan vendors film. And there's another character in here who would go on to do huge things and I know you recognize him as well. Was
John Turturro epic unbeliever early John tuturro role
playing Carl Cody and he would go on to do the right thing. Barton Fink quiz show Rounders and so many more things. I mean,
I mean, his best role ever Jesus in The Big Lebowski. Let's not forget that one.
Of course. Come on Big Lebowski. Absolutely. So now as far as the crew, of course, it was William Friedkin, who had won an Oscar for Best Director of the French Connection and was nominated for another Oscar as he answers this. Yeah,
that was another one. Also, I like I said before, I never watched horror movies as a kid I completely missed that one. I had never seen it and watched it as an adult which was interesting to watch. A great movie but a little dated. Yeah, 30 years after it's released or whatever.
And some of the other films he did included, which I know neither you or I have seen and that needs to change is sorcerer never seen it? Blue Chips and among other films. Oh, yeah. Those are great. Those are young shack started as quick as a good film. And then I kind of want to do a quick shout out to the cinematographer Robbie Mueller rest in peace. But his credits beyond this film included repo man, Paris, Texas, so him and Dean Stockwell reconnected. He also did Barfly and breaking the waves. I mean, he was a very prolific cinematographer,
Barfly and what was the first one you said, repo man, Repo Man, I mean, those are two gritty, dark movies. And that's kind of what I like about this one to live and die in LA is it is not glossy, it is not anything close to the glamorous side of Hollywood or Los Angeles. It is a little gritty and dark. And it's a classic 80s action movie that so many action movies now they just have all this gloss and crazy camerawork and effects and badass fighting. I mean, this is just kind of some underworld people do an underworld shit. And we're along for the ride. Totally. And
now do you know why I thought of you? I knew this would be a good fit. This is unapologetic. It's gritty. It's dark. It's got this great pace and style. I knew that it would be up your alley. I wasn't sure if you had seen it. So I'm very happy to have you on this journey. So the soundtrack was done by a very 80s Wang,
Chung. That's my question. They were a little before my time you grew up with them? Was it too much Wang Chung for you by the end of the movie, or did you just like it all the way through?
So I thought it was great. I do not remember them scoring anything. So I said soundtrack and I was getting to the point where they were the composers they
the Wing Chun movie like unofficially, I mean,
yeah, I was just segwaying into soundtrack they compose this movie. No. And I don't think so at all. Now, they were prized. The number one track and the movie a few times, which I'll talk about very quickly. So freakin upon hiring Wang Chung said, no matter what you do, do not create a song with the film's title in it. So what did they do? They went off and made a song called to live and die in LA freak and listen to it, loved it, put it in the film.
Can we just also talk about this movie for a second that it's one of those weird movies where the title is almost like as important as anything else in the movie? And it's like kind of one of those things like oh, have you ever seen this movie? Haven't heard of it? It's kind of obscure, but Everyone's kind of heard that phrase. It's also a Tupac song. If you're unfamiliar,
it's also a podcast like a mystery murder podcast, very popular came out last year. So yes, the title gets used quite often.
Well, the movie starts with a song called to live and die in LA, right. And then they show it in the beginning, like each word. And then they show to live in AI in LA, again, like all together. And at the very end of the movie, they also show the title again, like, you think that was freaking like, he just loved this term, this idea, and he just wanted it in there as much as possible. Yeah, I
guess so. And it's not actually the very beginning. It's after the opening sequence. But you're right. Okay. So
after two, three minutes of separate, we'll get into that we're
about to jump into the scenes. But yeah, I think he was obviously he was an early adopter to the phrase probably fell in love with it and really wanted to hammer the point home where did that phrase or title come from? Now that I don't know, when I we meet freakin this or go on our hit list of questions, because it's a good question. Like, where did the title come from?
So I'm imagining some, like some, you know, classic Hollywood, early directors crazy night out, someone mentions this phrase, I gotta make a movie about it. And here we are talking about it. 40 years later, that's my guess could be wrong.
And we're also talking about the director that did the French Connection. So I think sometimes he likes the title when it really has. I mean, it's right on it's right on the nose. You know,
it's two words, but it's really just one but it's iconic blue chips.
Yeah, killer Joe. I mean, that's just who he is. He's just gonna tell you what it is. And that's that he's hearing him talk. I've heard him interviewed countless times. He is unapologetic. He has his beliefs and he's hard to work with. I've heard of actors had lots of issues with him on various films, but that's who he is. And I like it. I like that he stands up and says, Yeah, we're gonna make this movie. And that's what's gonna be you're gonna live in, you're gonna die in LA, and I'm not going to back away from it. And
that's his frequent Do you think it's referring to though everybody, the main character, the villain?
I think everybody I think the bigger themes and not spoiler alert here. But yeah, I think it's everybody. Everybody in this world. We're
really only two people in the movie. Well, three die, but really only two main ones die.
There's a lot more than three. Well, two main ones. Yes. And then you got some peripheral three or four peripherals. Alright, so let's jump in. Here we go. Now, Jake, what cracked me up was, I'm not sure of the necessity for this timestamp. But there is one it's December 20 1410 hours. And if you notice throughout the movie, you get you know, timestamps are day stamps and the fonts different. That was kind of interesting, that kept changing. But for whatever reason, we need to know it's December 20. And the opening sequences, Secret Service detail for President Reagan who's visiting LA, and I guess are at the Beverly Hilton. And chance spots a shake. I guess that's like insider terminology for Secret Service suns going down. It's a little clunky. Like what's going on?
It's a lot here. Regan it's a lot quirky. The whole first scene is so weird where Yeah, it's about suicide bombers. I don't know why that guy's on the roof though. Like, what are you going to blow up? If you're on the roof? That didn't really make sense?
Well, I think he's gonna dive down and go into wherever Reagan speaking I think that's he's gonna like he's gonna crawl down comment. But no, I think he was tying up a rope to lower himself down.
Crack detected that he was he found them on the roof. He foiled the plot. But yeah, to me, it was just kind of weird. I mean, it set up his whole hotshot lifestyle. He's saving the president. He's jumping off bridges, but it was just kind of a non sequitur. It was like, Alright, we're gonna have some international terrorism. Try to kill the president. We're never going to revisit this in the movie. We're over and done with it like that. Was that just that's gonna set us up? We're on no crazier things from there.
Well, I like how Jimmy before we move on past that Jimmy has partner the older partner comes climbing up the building. How the heck did he know? To go in a building and climb up? Yeah. And
then just crazy confront him on the roof. And it's like, it doesn't make sense that there's a giant spotlight shining on him. And you're like, where's the spotlight coming from? And it's not the best beginning.
I always tell people if you watch it get past the opening. It's kind of like the room
the room had to weird Skinemax sex scenes in the first 20 minutes. And once you get past that you get to the real gold is like that. That's true.
So it was an Islamic terrorist. He does get blown to smithereens and then I love that Jimmy the partner sits on the roof and just says, getting too old for this shit.
I did write that down. What year is so funny? So the
first Lethal Weapon came out in 87. Okay, I saw this and we're like now That's Murtaugh. Well, Danny Glover will be that guy.
No, because there's a couple of things in this movie that are like tried and true staples of the genre, but it seemed like I'm not saying it broke ground and started this. But there's definitely some stuff in there that you're like I've seen this 1000 times, but maybe this is not the first but the second or the third or the fourth time that they kind of went with this trope.
Yeah, it seemed very cliche to me then I realized it probably started here. So you got to give it some credit. But that leads us to the montage of what you earlier spoke about. And now it's montage of LA and money counterfeiting culture to the Wing Chun track.
Okay, yeah, to me. That's when the movie really starts. Let's just forget about the terrorists he had nothing to do with anything he
had to raise the stakes had to show chance working this is what he does. Otherwise,
he's just we get plenty of chances to see how crazy chance is like that is almost the overriding theme of the whole movie.
And then you have Rick masters Willem Defoe and he's burning paintings.
Classic tortured artist
totally man. He needed a cure song on or something cuz he was just Yeah, very.
It was a weird like beside Wang Chun. It really is just a lot of Wing Chun.
Yeah. Wing Chun tonight.
So that's long. It's not in here though.
Now it's not in there. Next we see chants on top of a bridge. And he's you don't really know what's going on. But surely he's not going to kill himself. To me it was bungee but it's the strap is hidden within his pant leg. And you couldn't really tell
but that is one tiny ass rope. Because when they show that senior like this dude is just jumping off a bridge with nothing. And then he kind of magically stops and doesn't die. But yeah, that seems pretty wild.
Unlike a bungee where you go down and you kind of pull it up and he just kind of slowly goes down. It's not too far from the water. He's not too far at all. But everyone on the bridge chair so you know that, you know, this is this maniac Daredevil Secret Service guy. So they head to the bar to celebrate as Secret Service guys do. And now we hear Jimmy talking more about retirement and blah blah, blah. And, and I liked it the fact that means
that Jimmy is gonna die anytime that talks ever go to whether almost gonna
die the exceptional Lethal Weapon, so he never died more. No, no, but
almost. You're getting a lot of danger. I like to reference also falling down quite a bit where oh, what's a great movie? What's the actor's name?
I'm blanking. Michael Douglas.
No, no, the other guy, the old cop, the guy who's going to retire.
Oh, Robert Duvall.
There you go. But then there's the cop that gets shot, you know, in the shoulder like Robert Duvall in falling down where he gets hurt, but he survives. So it gets to be there for his wife. And then you got Danny Glover and Lethal Weapon where he just always talks about getting shot or dying or being too old, but you'd never actually is too old for the shit.
Now they are making a new lethal weapon with Richard Donner and the original cast. So this could be at for Danny Glover.
He might finally be too old.
I mean, he's, he's gonna pull like Harrison Ford and the last star wars are finally gonna kill him off. So I like the fact that chance also wears number 52 of the Steelers, which is iron Mike Webster. Another little thing about his personality. This is who he is. He's a guy on the edge. He's ended the iron Mike Webster, he's this kind of that guy against the grain driving his old partner crazy. He's driving his old partner to retirement is what he's doing. So chances are it
was his old partner to death. He died exactly, exactly as real, real bad.
So we find out Jimmy's got three days left on the job. And you know, they're leaving the bar, he gives him what it gives him like a fishing lure as early retirement president if you will. And I kind of like in the background, Jake. And having made a documentary about movieextras. I tend to like look at things going on in the peripheral. And you got some old guys playing checkers underneath the tree which really cracked me up. And then as chance leaves, he gets in his truck through the passenger door. I have no idea what that was. I told her. What is she doing?
Yeah, it was really a suicide bombing. See? And I had no idea. Yeah, I
understand I on your fifth view, and you'll start to see these things that are there. So next we get with all intents and purposes, we get a counterfeiting lesson. And it looks really good. Yeah.
What other great counterfeiting movies are there. I was trying to think I mean, this is it's definitely a crime that's committed. But there's a million bank robbery movies, million hostage movies, name another counterfeiting movie.
This is the quintessential counterfeit or movie It's been talked about in a movie. I've never seen it done like this. Here's what you do. You're painted a shooting at the serial number. Never. And this is also
what I liked about 80s movies is like a montage was just kind of like a bunch of shots that they put together like sure there's you know rocky four We're like the greatest Aedes montage of the mall. Some real effort was put into that. But in the 80s, like nowadays, if you make a movie and you're like, Oh, we're going to break into a bank, we're going to counterfeit this thing. We're going to hack into the system. Like, you gotta have all these crazy shots and camera moves and fancy high tech shit in the 80s. You just put a bunch of shots together in like under a minute, and you got a montage. And that's like, it's one of the great things about it. I mean, there's obviously, it's hard to say 80s. There's better montages than the 80s. But also, some of them are so simple and half assed and like, this is a good one, but they kind of just like is how you make some counterfeit, but
the budget was only $6 million. They had to just do the montage. And it worked. And knowing freaking he's like, done, let's move on. I got my montage. And it worked. And it really showed us something that I've not seen since then.
We'll also you know, the ad is it's a lot harder to make counterfeit bills now, I think they got plastic and then they got strips they got Yeah, is a little easier back then. So you know, that's the beauty of looking at these movies back in time, like the last Oh, not be. There's so many movies that if they just had a cell phone, like the whole movie wouldn't work. And even now, they'll put movies in the past. Because they're like, Hey, if you just call this guy and tell him not to do this, then the movie is over. Right?
Exactly. So now Jimmy, two days left, Jake, I don't understand this. I don't know why he's doing this. But you got two days left before retirement, but you're gonna go do a solo Scout mission to see if you can maybe get this counterfeiter that's out there.
I know you don't like me jumping ahead. But this movie is not a movie about backup. cops do what they do on their own throughout the movie. Right now. I know. You're absolutely right. It plays a pivotal role in the but this
is the first time we saw it. So it's crazy. It's crazy. Take chances with you. That's a guy you need just in case some shit goes down, you know, but he doesn't. He goes out there. And this leads to a pretty gruesome death. courtesy.
I would go with highly gruesome, like, I don't know, highly gruesome. And I don't know who did the special effects for this movie. There's a lot of squibs and you know, a little blood on the shirt. Like there looks like there's a hole in this dude's head when he takes a shotgun blast to the head.
Lot of gunfire to the head and the smell. Yeah,
to the head and the deck. I'll just say later there's there's two direct shots to the head that leaves like gaping wounds and another dude gets shot right in the dick from point blank range.
Yeah, not good. So basically Jimmy was snooping around where he wasn't supposed to be comes across Rick masters and his sidekick Jack the badass and they blew him away. And that's it. You know we're out and the next thing we know, Masters hideouts being aerated by chance and company because they're looking for Jimmy. And I like how they come running out. And you know, they cut the lock and they go in and the next lot chance to shoots. So he shoot they get they have cutters, but he shoots off the lock. Could a ricochet hit anybody hilarious. And they go in and all they see is a poker chip. And I guess Jake, that says it all. And this line of work that secret service. Do you see a couple poker chips in a dryer? You know what's going down?
Yeah, I thought the Secret Service mostly protected president's counterfeiting is their other main jurisdiction. Who knew right? I feel like that's like an FBI job. I don't think the secret service needs to find counterfeiters.
Yeah, I never knew I had no idea until I saw this film. But also
just to go back to Jimmy like this is just a funny, it's a movie that like it does not care about the fallout from what happens like is there a funeral for Jimmy? Nope. Does anyone ever mentioned Jimmy and the rest of the movie? No. Well,
he does mention him. When chance finds Jimmy's body which is in the dumpster on the air. That's like the next seat. But No buts. Right then and there. But he says it later because he's driven more than ever to get masters. He's the guy but he's driven. He does mention a couple of times. But yeah, there's no talk of he had a pension. He had a wife. We don't know Jimmy's backstory. We know nothing about Jimmy. We know he didn't make enticer
for Danny Glover and lethal weapon. He paved the way that's all we know.
Yeah, exactly. So chance after that ordeal with Jimmy he's pretty distraught. So he goes back to his house, we find out he lives in a nice little place on the beach. Probably doesn't know what to do. So Vukovich comes to visit chance. They're not partners yet. But he's been around. He knows what he's dealing with. And chance tells him that masters killed Jimmy. He knows he knows right then in there. He already had a hard on for masters. And now it's revenge. And that's what drives chance. That's why he's so irrational. At times. He was probably already irrational. But now all bets are off.
Okay, so Jimmy dying is what put him over the edge. So that was a point He didn't die for made it personal he made a sacrificial lamb NO NO by
NO MEANS now Jimmy shouldn't have died nor he should have gone out there on his own. But no
yeah cuz I once again I'm gonna jump ahead but yeah chances fully unhinged at the end he is out there. That's a good word. It that's kind of what the movie is about which is weird. Like it takes a whole different turn at the end of the the end of the movie. But we'll get into that later.
So now we're at the Secret Service Office and Bateman played by Robert Downey senior.
That's what I was wondering because I saw his name. I saw his name in the credits and I couldn't remember which character he was.
That is Robert Downey Jr. His father. Yes. And he's gone on to do lots of other movies. And it's great seeing him in this and he does exactly what I just talked about. He assigns Vukovich as chances new partner makes sense. So boom, you got a new partner. Can I fight this? No, not really. Okay, great. Bone. Very Yeah, because cool cop movie.
Yes. Ultimately, that's what the movie is. Is it buddy cop movie. It's very dark. It's very abs. It's very Wang Chun. It's a lot of things. But at its boil down to its core, is a classic buddy cop movie with their different styles. And really how it plays out. That's what to me. What's interesting about the movie is how it plays out in the final act second half. And it's kind of
like the French Connection. It's been Yeah, I mean, he won guys on the edge. You got Roy Schneider's kind of the Vukovich. This is a freakin model. We've seen
them in the back. That's like the most famous parody back. Exactly. You know, when they do autopsies on a cop killings gone wrong? Did they shoot them in the front or the back? Are you gonna fight back? From your back? You know,
exactly. So now, and I like to there's these beats in the movie, this is a great beat. There's another great scene coming up. And he's got a series of these to sprinkle in. And this is the first one, you have chance and Vukovich and they're tracking down Carl, played by John Turturro. And they're at LAX. And they're looking for counterfeit bills. And what cracks me up, Jake, is that tuturro Not only has counterfeit bills, but he is paying for his flight and cash. Talk about the 80s. You show up at the airport? You're booking a flight right
there. And you can do that today. You can Okay.
What are the percentages of people that you met today? Less than one
that aren't criminals? Yeah, less than 1%.
And so they quickly go up, check out the bills, find out it's counterfeit. And we have a little chasing at LAX happen, which is kind of cool. And details. I don't know where he thinks he's going. But he's trying to get away.
It's weird though, because he's kind of like, in some parts of the movie. He's kind of just a lame duck, nothing and other parts. Like he beats the shirt a chance. Like, he kind of goes back and forth between a tough guy and just a random dude.
Why is a thug? He's a thug. Yeah, he
runs he gets caught, he beats up, he gets beat up.
He runs to the restroom and hides in a stall gets up on the toilet, and then comes out and tries to make a last ditch effort. But no, because chances in there and what do you do Jake? He fires his gun again. This guy is fired his piece two times. Like there are cops that have never even pulled their gun. We've seen chance shoot it twice. That's pretty crazy. I would say
oh, he's got a lot more crazy shit coming up. Also, he ain't done.
So they catch him. And I like the scene as well. The way it ends because why this is happening at LAX police officer comes out in the restroom. He's like what's going on pulls his gun of which book which pulls his gun on him. And then there's a guy in the background just says, Hey, I was just trying to take a leak. It's a kind of your only comic relief in the entire film set little moment. And so they've got their guy. And so any thoughts on that sequence before we move on?
This was when I was watching it the first time through. I was a little tired. I might have been fading out a little bit on the couch.
Did you miss the scene?
I saw it. I saw it. I'm just kind of like, all right. Yeah, this movie, you know the cop. He's old. He's gonna retire. He dies. The crazy guys jumping off bridges. I was very excited to see a young John Turturro. But I was kind of like, where's this movie going? It had been? I mean, 15 years since I've seen it. So I've kind of forgot everything. And then fortunately, I revisited the next day. And really the second half is where things take off. So for me, it's hard. It's also hard because you look at some movies and they broke ground at the time, but then 1000 copycats came later. So it's hard to look back and see something that's a little bit fresher for what it was
right. I guess I liked the scene because it starts to connect the dots like there is a plan at play. He's got a partner. Let's get some of these bills circulating. Let's tie this to masters. Let's bring down masters. So I like to see it in motion. And this leads Carl to go to jail. And now you have Masters coming to jail to visit him. And we learn about this guy Waxman, I guess this producer,
okay, we're talking about what you can do and can't do now as opposed to then, like they just come in and openly discuss their crimes in prison seem like you can still do that now. Like I that just seemed weird that they were like, yeah, they're talking through the glass and the warden or whatever, like bailiff guys off on the side. But they're just fully conspiring about the crimes they've committed the crimes they're going to commit.
And what is masters doing go into a jail? He's already just killed a Secret Service agent. What's he doing?
There's no repercussions in this movie though. This is a world without I mean, there's like, yeah, you do you cross someone, they'll kill you down the line. But you know, you die. There's no funeral.
Let's go back to the title. What's it called again?
To live and die in LA?
That's it. It's one degree away from that always. You're
either alive or you're dead. There's two choices.
Exactly. So we learn about Waxman, this not that he's a big player, but he's part of this sequence of events.
He's a young John Turturro. That's really the most important thing that you know,
Waxman is the other guy. Yeah, John's heroes. Karl Waxman is the Hollywood producer who's ripped masters off for $600,000 and blamed it on Carl that's why masters went to go talk to him in jail. Hey, where's my money? Laxman said you never show it up. He says that guy could it be I gave it to him. It's in a safe. Yes, I'm gonna start to put things puts things in motion. So now masters, a man about town goes to another meeting. He goes and meets with Attorney Grimes which is Dean Stockwell. And ask him about Cody. Because Jake, I guess here's masters thinking. If Carl stuck in jail, he's gonna rat me out. So can I get him out? If I can't get him out? I'll do something else. That's kind of what's in motion. Meanwhile, I would think that Masters is a marked man because chance already knows he killed his partner. And he's gunning for him. But yeah, he's not worried about that right now. He doesn't even know who chances yet
at this point that we also Rick is he's kind of the bigger badass of the two. He's kind of like the bad guy you haven't seen like vulnerable? You haven't seen him Brian. He's kind of like the boogie man. He's a classic weird 80s avant garde artist. Slash counterfeiter? Has the the weird dance troupe shown up in the movie. Yeah. Oh, come here. That is
weird. Super 80s. But we're almost there. So now we have chance. And he's meeting with his informant. Who is Ruth linear. And he learns about Waxman. So he's got this informant. Jake. That tenses tell him things. And that's how he's getting fed information. So they both learn about Waxman about the same time. And again, just pushing the storyline forward just pushing things along. Which I like I like something that we're not messing around not unlike the opening scene. Now we're on this like well, the
opening scene has action though. You know, it's it has action and it has purpose
because it just shows you what they do and yeah, Secret Service also save protect the predators so
not sure about that. We definitely know they protect the president. I'm not convinced they hunt down counterfeiters
after this movie. They were taken off the case and now not pretty sure they do. But we'll get into that later.
I know they hired prostitutes in South American countries. I know that Secret Service does that. Okay,
so now Master's visits Bianca at the modern dance class. Jake what's going on here?
I mean, he is to the max I don't know why this part is in the movie. Other than being super weird.
Freaky was into I guess it kind of explains masters character. He's into this and he invested in this is Bianca, not just his girlfriend. It's like he's kind of part of this troupe because he Yeah,
it's a lot of Rogen is people with a lot of makeup, doing a lot of 80s dancing, just generally being confusing.
And I haven't like when Master's goes to kiss this person that looks like a guy and there's kind of looks like and which is fine, but at the time 85 Looks like two guys are making out and then she reveals herself to be Bianca with a wig on. And then did you recognize the other person in the room by chance?
No, I was a dancer, mostly confused.
So the other dancer Serena is played by Jane leaves. And you may recognize her as Daphne from Frasier.
It's so weird that there's all these 90 sitcom stars in this movie. Yeah, but you got to make your money. sexier. You got to get that syndication. Fraser and Matt about you. They're still cashing those
a quantum leap. Quantum Leap. I
don't know that one's when was the last time you saw that one on TV?
I think was on Netflix. Not that long. No, you're right though it's not in the Fraser, Matt about you camp. I agree even those
are kind of dead. But they did try to revive Matt about you. They did. We don't need to get into that. Both of those shows just the majors a great show. uptight, rich, lame white people.
Okay, that's another podcast. That's my review. Okay, so now Bianca goes to visit Max Waxman, we're talking about a Hollywood producers named Max Waxman. So she goes over there and starts to come on to him. It's kind of a setup, classic setup. It's raining in LA and it does rain here. It does. When it does rain once a year. It rains for five, six straight days, but it's raining. She's coming on to him setting things up. And of course across the street chants. Vukovich are a stakeout to get the church set up. They're gonna watch this kind of thing go down, they anticipate masters will make an appearance and they'll get him. What do you think of the same?
Is this one where they're gonna get shot in the dick?
That's coming. It's setting us up for that.
Okay, that's more I was just shocked. I was like, yeah, so that's a Masters movie. It's freaking Oh, in general, he will seem to enjoy violence.
He loves it. Do we need to go back to his movies again?
no one died in blue chips but for the most part lots of violence in his other films. Yeah, so you know, killer Joe bog French Connection exorcist. It's a thing. But yeah,
I was more just like, Man, this movie is crazy stuff going on. But just really graphic even for ad standards very well speak in a graphic.
So masters comes in, tries to get Waksman a given the 600k in the safe. Of course Waksman doesn't want to do it finally succumbs to it. Because he's got a gun on him. And then they get in a brief fight in the ass. He shoots him right in the family jewels. But I also wonder what this next thing meant. Masters picks up this artifact and says 18th century Cameroon? Yes. And then goes on to say you'll taste this in your ass. Now. What was that cut? We don't show anything now
you'll taste this in your ass is a threat. I believe that's a threat. That bad thing has already
been shot. Yeah, I can maybe it was just a threat. I didn't know if there was actual follow through on this threat.
But and I think also the fact that he knew it was 18th century, which I kind of wish they would have gotten into a little more was yet Defoe's, like a weird Keith Haring. 80s artist vibe, stuff going on, that they allude to here and there in the movie, and definitely the part where he shows up and I think he burns one of his paintings and the very first time we've seen him,
yeah, and we also talked to an art dealer later that thought he was a very talented person and made great work.
And at the end of the movie, they kind of proved that like he could have just sold his paintings for a lot of money, which did not make any sense to me is like, I think he's just a criminal. He just kind of had bad intentions like he could have been a weird 80s Yes, successful lucrative artist, but his art was making counterfeit bills. And he liked he had a very vindictive streak also, like he took good point. You did not want to cross this dude,
there could be a prequel or a short film or something Eric Rick masters Yeah, I would like to know more about him what drives him because he is this enigma it's, it's such a unique character and listen, Defoe plays it perfectly, because Devo can just embody anything and you believe it like yeah, he's this creepy guy.
What movie just a faux Pele a normal guy. He looks
American Psycho he actually played a normal guy. He played a cop and he played he played it straight and I thought wow if all the movies to play it straight, but he was going against someone crazy
yeah who got a serial killer psychopath
so yeah, for the most part that's not his MO but he just was
so weird. He's such a weird looking guy. And I guess at the time also no one no one had really seen him you know
exactly. So while this is going on, why are masters is taking out Laxman. Vukovich has fallen asleep, and they've missed the caper. So they run out, day later. $1 short, and they're late for the show, but the driving back to the station, and chance reveals that he took something from the crime scene, a dealer's code, and Vukovich is not happy. But he agrees that hey, maybe you know maybe we could use this to get masters I think that is the that's the through line.
This is my big question about the film though is this is especially the main through line of the second half is that chance is totally a cop above the law. Like he totally go so far off the deep end and they never really delve into it but like I get it. It's a movie where if you die you have no funeral. There's no real consequences. But how would he ever convict anybody on any of the police work? He does like he commits so many crimes himself catching the bad guy
that our secret service above the law is that what we're led to believe here nobody is no I don't think they are but they act like they are no I agree with you
Well, I think he does because his partner that's a weird thing and you know, I once again I want to jump ahead too much, but his partner kind of takes over his role at the end of the movie, but most of the movie is like him looking at chance being like, What the hell are you doing? Like he's not really okay with taking all these risks and right, I mean, it's fine because the movie never really pauses once the dominoes are set up and the wheels are in motion like everything just goes goes goes there's no time to think about things. But yeah, if you do pause the movie for a minute at numerous points and you're like okay, well how do they take this to trial and how do they convict this guy and how does this work in court and you just can't do that with this movie?
Yeah, no, you can't. He might as well let's go shoot masters because you're right he's setting up a case that he probably can't when he's breaking every law to do it and he's
just getting started like he's gonna go way way Oh, no way farther. We're gonna
get to it where what he did is unforgivable. Absolutely. Even then, though he doesn't back down. So now chance visits Ruth. And we find out she's not just the informant. She's an informant with benefits
sexing Full Frontal
I'm just like, that's what I was looking at my notes for this movie. Like we had suicide bombers full frontal nudity. Young Willem Defoe, young John Turturro people shot in the face, people shot in the deck. There's a lot going on. That was the crazy thing about movies also. I mean, how long is it 90 minutes? Maybe it's not that long, almost two hours. Okay, but like, they just go there's no long exposition scene. No, there's no filler. We just move on from set piece to set piece.
It's Miami Vice without the flash. But yeah, it has that kind of vibe. But it's not flashy. It's unapologetic. And they're breaking every rule. And when I say they, I mean chance
you would want to be Crockett or Tubbs you don't want to be anybody in this movie.
No, no. So I like when he comes in though. I like Ruth is like, Who's that? How many guys just pop in? Like she's just totally like in bed naked? If someone's in our house, and it's not enough? Well,
I think the kind of connotation is that for someone like chance. He's a fast guy. You need fast women like, you know, they're just most people are driving in the slow lane at 65 miles an hour. These people are going you know, 98 miles an hour, weaving through traffic in life.
A great a great. So Ruth has some more intel. But chance passes. And now we learned she's on parole. So that's how he's milking her along getting Intel getting laid. Miss his chances life. He's got no strings, you know, hey, this is easy. So now and I like the sequence to coming up this little beats, they're trying to hunt down masters, you have chance Vukovich. And they're going after this credit card counterfeiting bust. And it's kind of a nice foot chasing. Remember this one. Refresh me? Well, they oversee two guys who have a brown bag full of credit cards, not theirs. And they chase them down. And Vukovich is chasing one of the guys. And it's kind of funny, because the guy is like, Man, why are you chasing me? And Vukovich is like, why are you running? The guy says, because you're chasing me man, which is a layer
on cops like at least 10 times before. So that's happening.
And then the other chasing is chance and he's chasing down the other guy. And that guy is played by Gary Cole. And if you don't know the name, Gary Cole is a pretty well known actor from The Brady Bunch films, a simple plan. He played lumbar and office space. I mean, it's a pretty big moment, but he has his to like one or two lines. So that's a very early acting job for Gary Cole, who I happen to run into one time at the Sherman Oaks Castle Park putt putt. I was on a first date and there was Gary Cohen, his family you work with Gary Cole, Gary Cohen, I yeah, I beat him hands down. No, I saw him in Lyons like hey, that's, that's Gary Cole. So now it's a good sequence. And so he chances you know, beating him up and going to throw him off this little bridge and wants to know, you know, he's just trying to get intel on masters. That's essentially all that's happening. And so now, back to what we said earlier, as much as their partners. Often they just do things alone. That's this movie does that. You know, you and our partners, Jake, but I'm gonna go do this thing over here. Maybe I'll get myself in the trouble but hey, so Vukovich visits an art dealer because you get cement Now, and goes to visit him. And that's how we find out that, you know, Masters is kind of legitimate artist and had done some work and this guy admired it. So yeah, I would like to seen some of his paintings there. But do remember the sequence?
Yeah, I mean they never even really show it because doesn't like the one he burns is like a weird like my kid could draw that painting. It's not anything good. And then even at the end of the day, when they allude to the paintings, you never actually see them.
Right? They could have just picked a random artist, right and then said, Hey,
no, but I think that was also the 80s Like, there was definitely some people that were successful artists that had no discernible art talent.
Well, I have actually bought three masters since this film came out three Eric masters original three to Eric Rick masters. I would just
because I think the scene is coming up soon. I just like a framed picture of Willem Defoe naked in front of the fireplace burning his money. Because I thought that was really one of the most iconic shot in the whole movie, and really didn't make any sense. There's a lot of sort of unnecessary nudity, a lot of involving willing to faux
male nudity at that. So now masters visits Jeff rice, and I've always liked this actor played by Steve James Rest in peace, Steve James. He was in the Warriors, Hollywood shuffle. I'm gonna get you sucker. And he's at a basketball court. And he hires him to kill Carl for 75k and not 75k In real money, and counterfeit money. And I like that Jeff kind of says, Hey, What's it matter to you? It's funny money anyway, why does it matter what you give me but masters takes it serious? It's like, now it'd be 75,000 and counterfeit bills. And so he hires him, because he's going to often because he's afraid Carl's gonna rat him out. So now we're at the prison and this is a great same cuz I love the way they set up the prison and anything when John Turturro is great, and he's, if you're looking around, and you're the last guy to know something, then you're the mark. And he's like, Hey, what's going on here? Everyone's starting to move away. And it's like, someone's gonna get hit man. And they're common for him. These two guys that Jeff hired are coming to off Johnson Terrell Carl, and he survives the attack. Lucky guy. I don't know he got hurt. He survives it.
The he got stabbed, spraying it definitely got shaked at least once. Okay, you're shanked,
but he lives. And now he's terrified. And chance goes to visit Carl and offers him parole to help him get masters. And he's
not sure he has the authority to do but we're just going with
duty Secret Service. He just shows up with this badge.
They can do whatever they want. I'm here to get Carl and we're out in the cop in the bathroom scene. He shows him a secret service badge and that just kind of diffuses the situation. Yeah.
Did you like this prison yard sequence? Yes. Yes. Because also
it's just like the the number of things that this movie touches in one movie. Yeah, it is impressive. So yes, for that. It's got the whole prison yard mark. And I mean, you know, what was tuturro in before this not much
small things and then this I think I'm telling you Jake, this was a launching point. Yeah, for a
lot of people. No, I fully get what I'm saying you're working with freakin
so you're working with this Oscar winning director nominated. He made the exorcist in French Connection. You worked with him? Yeah. So this was they were also
very I think he's, you know, discovering people very talent was though, Willem Defoe is just so weird to look at that he's captivating and then to tour with his mannerisms and his energy like just having him on screen. You want to see more of him so
Exactly. And it's super talented. You saw he had this little role he could have played anybody in this movie. I'll tell you what, the casting director and obviously, William freakin great casting. They did an amazing job on casting this film. Yeah, so now masters goes to visit Jeff because he failed to kill Carl. And this leads to a pretty good fight.
There's like some weird like karate in this moment. Oh, yeah.
That one guy does like a spinning back kick is like well, where'd that come from? Yeah, because they
have guns like they are criminals. They have guns.
knife, the knife belt.
I like that a little. Yeah.
Some a ninja would have.
But then like quickly, the guns like they get dropped on the ground. And like there's nowhere else in the movie where anyone's doing any kung fu fighting. But this scene is kind of like a weird kung fu scene. There's definitely some spinning kicks and like a lot of punches being
and Jeff and his friends, his two friends with him. They had the upper hand on masters as well as Jack who was there. We don't know much about Jack but he's a gangster. And they had the upper hand and then it turns and then of course what happens? Jack shoots Jeff's friend
in the face and right in the face. Francis
masters shoots Jeff but doesn't kill him. As far as we know, body wound, and then he gives him the cash. He's like you better give me that. I guess it's 37 and a half 1000 It's half the 75 Yeah, and so we cut to the same what you just talked about, where you've got the lady up on the chaise lounge, you have a naked masters and he's just putting the 30 plus k in the fire and saying that this money is no good now that those guys touched it does that make it why any sense at all I
didn't. I think that was like the tortured artists part of him where yeah, like this money
is counterfeit money is not purity more, I do not understand this.
I love this movie. But this is just where it gets into a little bit like, I like feel like freaking love the symbolism of like, naked Willem Defoe, at the fire with his lover in the background, burning money. But it really doesn't make a lot of sense. Like if you know, and that's the whole movie. It's like the sun. You can't look at it too closely. You just kind of gotta keep going, keep going. And then you're on to the next but it is iconic. Like if, if any reason if you were to talk to anybody about this movie, used like, oh, yeah, to live and die in LA and then you'd probably say like to live and die in LA like four times because it's a good title. And then you could just kind of say like, oh, yeah, Willem Defoe, you know, burning money in front of the fireplace, and then you just kind of wincon that John Carroll. Yeah, you could throw them on, I would just go with, you know, default by the fireplace. And maybe, you know, wink, and there's a different
scene that I would reference, but I won't get into that yet. But it's coming up. Here's my favorite
scene of the movie. It didn't make any sense. And that's kind of the beauty of the movie is it doesn't always make sense, right? But it's very captivating. And that is a captivating scene, yet, unfortunately, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Well, one thing I've learned about the faux Masters is that he likes to burn things of value, or precede value. That's what I've learned. The tortured
villain that has an artistic side that was never explored. And now they're just killing people. Fly. John Lithgow, put a roll like that at least once or twice.
Yeah, I guess lift gallon blowout is a pretty interesting character. And this isn't a this is a good character, but we don't know where he comes from. We accept it. And it makes no sense.
This scene definitely shows just what a badass Rick Masters is, like, he'll go into these hardcore gangsters house, there's five of them, there's two of them, and he's just kind of kick their ass like, three of them close enough
and, and to get money that he's just gonna go burn. Like, wow, he could have just said, Fuck it, Jeff, keep the money. I'm gonna come to get a
whole that's the whole, you know, subtext of the movie is that money has value, but he creates it falsely. So it's this false value. And it's all about the AVS of this sort of vapid culture and materialism. And that's why I like, you know, here's where I feel like the movie starts to shift were like, and we'll get into what he does, but chance almost becomes the villain in the second half. Like he just goes from the deep end into the abyss like he who's worse. Yeah, that's what that was. My big underlying thing is like, Rick is definitely a criminal and chances the law, but who is the worst person in the movie? And like,
Ricky's really bad, but Rick is more
he's cold, he's calculating, he's murderous. He will kill you. He will do whatever it takes. Chances, just add a control. He is just like, he's kind of like, Johnny, Utah's character in Point Break, like, Yeah, but turned up to 11. Like, he has no family, no girlfriend. I mean, he kind of has a girlfriend. But yeah, we'll get into what he does to her later. But like, he has nothing holding him down. And he truly like spirals out of control at the end of the movie.
I think Jimmy really helped keep him on the tracks.
Why? What the hell did Jimmy do, other than being an old guy named Jimmy?
Well, I just kind of see their dynamic and he looked up to him, and he could tell that he probably just what are you doing when he probably always fathered him and losing him. That's it. He is unhinged. And so
they didn't they didn't have time for that in this movie. Oh, they don't have time
for that. Well, you kind of see their dynamic. He was obviously the outfit to him. Jimmy was, you know, top dog chance was there. But he was ready to take over and it meant he was probably turning this guy eventually. But what happened led this to happen? I could
see that and then definitely, what's his partner's name again? Vukovich lukovitch Vukovich. He's the second potato. Exactly, exactly. He and then it kind of the baton gets passed.
So now chance, wears a tie and visits judge Seville out to get Carl paroled. Now, Judge played by Valentin Dave Argus rest in peace.
He was really like an old western actors. Yeah, it
was a wild wild west. He was in Mission Impossible the TV show, and lots of old stuff. And Jake, I found this out as well. Born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, my hometown, I just saw that I was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta give a shout out. But he's great. And this sequence, this exchange between the judge and chance, actually really liked it. That was a really good scene. That was, I would almost venture to say it's probably realistic.
He storms off in a huff. And then he says something and the judge brings it back, and then it gives him what he wants. But I like how he the judge says the one thing you can't do is let this prisoner go. What's the first thing he does when he gets custody of them? Run with them go?
So this is where tuturro is a badass because he beat the shit out of
them. Yes, absolutely. You're right. So the next thing chance goes to get Carl out of prison on parole. And Carl, I gotta say pulls a fast one. Quick thinking. He asked to go see his daughter at the Santa Fe hospital. chance thanks. He's given him a line has someone call verify that someone's there, matching the name and description of the doctor. They go there and you're absolutely right. In the hospital, he takes the cuffs off. And Taro Carl lays him out. beats up chance in the hospital.
He healed from that wound though really fast. He has like a huge gash in the next scene on his eye. And then the scene after that is gone.
Well, there's one place to get your ass beat, I guess the hospitals probably top of the list. So, again, Jay chance got beat up because he went on this little mission alone. If he had had Vukovich with them, you know, would have avoided it
to live and die in LA parentheses. If you're a cop always bring backup. Yeah, I think that should be the full title of the movie.
Have your partner? Sure. So now Vukovich meets with Attorney Grimes who shares that he'll help them get masters. So he is not only masters attorney. He realizes how dirty he is. And he's happy to work with the Secret Service to set up a meeting for price to put things in motion. And for a price for a price. He is an attorney. Yes, indeed. For
50 grand I think I do believe was his asking price.
And that's later that was when Vukovich gets in trouble. I liked how he
was the lawyer kind of playing all sides that he Yeah, he was very amoral. He wasn't a bad guy. He wasn't a good guy. He just was kind of a guy that knew what everyone was up to.
Exactly. I liked him a lot. He's a great actor. And this thing he wasn't for a price. He's just covering his bets. He's hedging his bets like, Secret Service, ask questions. I'm not doing anything wrong. He's a client. How can I help you later though, when he sees him again? Yeah, my services are available. I have 50k
That's the standard get you off a year and a half in jail.
It's 50k and 85. Not bad money. I don't know. You know, Ben.
Well, well, we'll get into money because Chase starts needing some money later in this movie and it gets him in some trouble. Oh my god.
So Grimes sets up an undercover meeting with chance. Vukovich and masters. And so bam. They're undercover man. They're meeting with Masters they got this whole thing they got fake names their palm spring, guys. Like are you buying any of this?
Yeah, I mean, I'm deep undercover stuff. Unless that's what the movie is about. No, when you're tossing it in three quarters of the way through I'm like, All right, this is what's happening. It was weird that they're all hanging out together.
Right there they are. Here's the guy he's he's breaking every rule in the book to get I like to sequence so I like seeing them kind of fill each other out. And they they have to talk the talk you know, they want to purchase 1 million and counterfeit bills. They have their story airtight. And then Master says what I need 30k upfront and not counterfeit money. I need 30k in cash.
This begins the unraveling of chance.
And I was just gonna say really quick. They met the Easton gym. Or I've actually been to before nice gym, small boutique, but it was kind of cool seeing it in a movie. For
to live and die in LA there's not a lot of landmarks that are in the movie and also oddly enough it's mostly in Long Beach like chance lives in Long Beach like a lot of the movie takes place in there. So should they have caught it to live and die in Long Beach? I guess not quite the
I was thinking the same thing. I remember all this lands that were in Long Beach but then I started looking so I did some deep dive on filming locations. And a lot of these nondescript places. We're in Los Angeles.
That sure but like we're chance lives it's like by the dog like by the beach. A bridge and like the whole,
but let me go back to an earlier point $6 million budget, so they couldn't shut down and do ever seen it. They weren't
the Beverly Hilton. No, they're in Long Beach for at least half the movie.
I always said the same thing about body double. If every time they're in this long seems like we're back in Long Beach and body devil so
yeah, but body double doesn't have the word Los Angeles in the title.
No, it does not. But it's always playing to La you're not sure sure. Another movie that I'll need to have on the podcast. Great Ryan dipalma film
Yes, but chance needs money and chances not going to get this money in a legal manner by anyway.
Well, I like how before we leave the gym I like how masters says,
Oh, this is the weird like sauna scene. They go in depth.
Yeah, when you're going on our coverage if you go undercover and
you have to do a sauna with three or four other naked men.
I'm just curious. Masters is really big on his reputation as a counterfeiter. And I would think like a counterfeiter would want to be really unknown, but he's gone he was
an artist What do artists do they sign their artwork like they Yeah, it's true. They want the recognition I think that's we never get into it something what happened to Rick masters childhood like why what whole is there that he needs this validation
zero attention zero to no one liked him. Yeah, was parents I didn't like them. That's the parents hated him said he was a it was a horrible artist. And I'll never have any money so I'll show them I'll do both.
Yeah, if you do get to talk to freakin that's what you got to ask him is what is masters backstory?
Alright, so now Bateman? The boss of Jason Vukovich tells them you're not getting 30k 10k is the limit and by the way, you're missing one parolee so chances to screw it up. He's making deals he can't make and he's losing guys. He's getting out on parole. Not good.
Meanwhile, Jimmy, who was on this case already died and nobody cared about
that. Like they did the funeral off camera. Not even
time but not even the funeral but just no one acknowledges that this was part of what's happened in the investigation. Yeah, we ain't got time for that. No time
for them. We're moving forward at a fast pace. So I love this lunch spot they go to with the stadium seats kind of cool and they're having beer and and this is when he lays on Vukovich this plan and Jake not a good plan. Ruth gives him a tip someone's coming into town with $50,000
Oh now I remember now remember Yes. And this is where it really goes awry.
He pitches Vukovich on something that is across so many lines every line they're going to enter see this person steal the money so they can use it to pay masters 30k and get the deal in motion. But getting this is so illegal and they only have this tip from Ruth that side and verified Vukovich wants nothing to do with it doesn't like it and
right foot. He still does it. Vukovich like he does not really put up much of a fight.
He's questioning it. But yes. And before he goes along with it. No, I guess he does finally agree, obviously. But chance goes to visit Ruth to really get more details on this because this is a big situation. I love it. She works at a strip club. Naturally. She's an informant. She's on parole. She works at a strip club. And when he goes in, we have Wang Chung's Dancehall days plane over the scene, which is kind of a nice time
this is okay, this is a little bit of a deeper cut from Wing Chun. So at this point, I was I was tired of them, like maybe halfway through the movie, but I'm like, Alright, this is a little a different leaf that we're overturning in the cannabis song was
a big hit. Yeah, cuz they're just they had composed most of music. This song was an actual bonafide hit.
But this one's a little more downbeat, right. It's more Yeah, because Wing Chun is very poppy, you know?
Yeah. And the score is not that it has fast pace to it.
This is I have to say that's the probably the best song in the whole movie.
I still like to live in LA a lot but Dancehall days is fav of mine. So yes. But anyway, Ruth breaks things down for chance. And it is basically the 11 Amtrak train leaving San Francisco at 7am arrived in Union Station at 4:25pm. She laid it out. That is the plan and they're going to intercede this person and steal the money
and once again, which is just crazy. Yeah. How does this get prosecuted in court?
Like gel one knows mom's daughter Jake.
I think that's the point though, is like and I kind of wish I had gotten a little more into it is like chances just off the deep end. And hear like he has taken off the safety harness. Bateman was
just suspend him for this. His boss Bateman would suspend him if he'd
never be able to realistically prosecute masters at this point, like, he's more just has a vendetta against him and he's just doing whatever he can and is truly desperate.
Yeah. And his report, what would it be? Where did you get the 30k to pay masters? Well, yeah. Totally. What would he say? Consequences, whatever.
But this is just kind of foundational. It's a little bit like, I'm just wondering like, in Chance's mind, how does he does he even take a second to like, think process or just like, This is my plan. I'm going with it.
He's reacting. Now we're at Union Station. The plan is in motion. And he pages Thomas Ling, played by Michael Chong. And when he goes up to the paging center, back in the day when you page people, he knew his mark, the tear out of Union Station, they've got the guy, they've got the briefcase, but they're not in the clear, Jake. Things are happening.
People are chasing them. But who is chasing them? Because this begins the extended crazy car chasing. But there's just nonstop guys pulling up from this point on with machine guns that they're ready to shoot at them. But who are those guys? Are those FBI agents? Yeah, those those are masters guys.
They're federal agents. Because what chance Vukovich do not know right now is that Thomas liing is an undercover agent.
Okay, but so federal agents are going to be out there with machine guns at every turn shooting at them, they get a little out of control in this chasing,
I'd say a lot out of control. But a place so great. So that they think they have this mark, and he was already a bad guy. And they're gonna take this money, use it, whatever. They don't know what they've stumbled into it. So they intercepted some big plan that people had worked on it forever. Agents. leaing is an agent, this big thing because chance is so crazy. And his little Informit. Hottie on the side, gave him a tip. And then he's going into action. Yeah, insane.
What's the plan that literally has zero chance of success
000. So it's amazing, it continues to work. So it gives you more confidence. So he's got a briefcase, they pull off the freeway, and kind of mines me when we drive like you're on these little freeways and like the arts district and downtown. And he pulled off on the freeway underneath the overpass, and didn't have the key to open the briefcase.
That is an amazing scene, though, because that's one take. I don't know how they did that. Because he's banging on it banging on it getting frustrated, right. And then it opens kind of at the right time. But then the scene keeps going for another like 30 seconds Apple same take
it was great. So but the briefcase is empty. That's like a phone book and there's not the money. And they want him to strep. And then they're spotted while he straps and he pulls out a money belt. And then he's telling him to take his pants off, takes his pants off. And then the agent see them right from above because they pulled over I'll just
roll up with to like loaded M sixteens. just ready to go. That was like I was a little confused at that point. Because I was like, these guys are agents like they're just shooting left and right and just being crazy.
Well, and as the audience the first time I've watched it, you don't know what's going on here. I told you guys something. I told the audience something just now, if you don't know the movie, you don't know these are federal agents. You think this is like bad guys everywhere at this point in time. And so Ling is down there. He's hit by one of the agents. He's got he's killed. And these guys are in trouble. They do have the money. And this time, chance jumps behind the wheel. Because now here we go. He's not afraid to get him the heck out of the situation. And this becomes one of the greatest car chasing scenes and cinema history.
Would you put in your top five or no? Oh, for sure. What about the one in French connections probably better though, and more more. Free. Same
director. He had to go a different way. Don't have a subway.
That's more iconic. And then bullet bullets gotta be up there.
He just asked me top five. Yes, it's in my top five. It's probably my ticket. What's your
top five then? Well, I
think he just named them.
Those three bullet, French Connection, French Connection and to live and die
and I don't have them in a certain order. I just say it's in the top three.
Okay. It is wild the part when they're going the wrong way on the freeway.
Oh my gosh. It is
so dangerous. You can just tell in the way they were filming it. And there are so many stunts that are practical. Same thing as French Connection, where the stunt driver hits the gas a little too long doesn't hit the brake turns, right turns left, it's game over for somebody.
So like we just talked about, there's a lot of guys with machine guns. And they're all over the place. I mean, this thing goes into detail with
those guys are federal agents, I get it where they works for the scene, and you're not clear what's happening. But where there's a little unlimited supply of these guys, like everywhere they turn there's more guys driving up with machine guns. But yeah, he gets a crazy car chase. It goes on for a while. And then he gets basically cornered. And there's like nine guys with machine guns. Yeah, and he's like, time to give up. He sees the do not enter runway sign. Here's my out. And yeah, he jumps on the freeway. And I mean, there's at least 10 or 15 scenes where two cars are driving like 4050 miles an hour plus right at each other. Yeah. And you know, they both turn to the right side. And everyone's okay, but there's a lot of stuff also like French Connection where the cameras in the car, and you're like, Wow, this is fucking dangerous.
I like milk adventures in the backseat. Stuck back in the backseat, which would be terrible place to be sitting during was
that's kind of a metaphor for the whole movie. Right? It's Vukovich is now on a ride. With chance. He didn't dream up any of this stuff. He wasn't really on board with it. But he's kind of the partner that got second fiddle that got sucked into the whole ordeal. And now he really doesn't have much say anything. Which is ironic when you come to the end of the film, right? But we're not quite there yet. So we'll get to there in a minute.
I like when they're going to the LA River and the bank minutes. And it's like a video game. And these guys you think he's clear. And then there's another guy shooting machine guy like that is a that's a great sequence. I can't
and that's I mean, it's if you think Terminator two is an amazing LA River sequence. If you think Greece is an amazing la sequence watch this one because it puts both of them to shame. And this is after they already drove for like two miles the wrong way down the freeway.
Right? Dr. Candidate A tip of the cap? Because he goes and explores the LA river but yeah, he's not running from anybody. But he drives down there. I love in movies do that. But this is the one movie that up the stakes. I've never seen
speaking. Speaking of driving, I have my own trivia I prepared for you. Oh, please name, the second unit stunt driving coordinator for this movie. And what other movies he's worked on?
Well, you've jumped way ahead to my trivia section.
I know why this is my own trivia. So I wanted to, I believe it's yelman. Nope. What do you mean? No. The second unit stunt driving coordinator is well the second inning camera optic or not second to use camera, but there's a hole in the end, the
man actually took over and shot this sequence because the DP who I mentioned earlier, wasn't sure how to do it. So if you're talking beneath him on the production line, I don't know.
It would be buddy Joe hooker, who was the lead driver stuntman for what movie? One of the best car chase movies ever. The whole movie is basically a
car chase. The whole movie is basically a car chase, and it's
one of your favorite directors. It was part of a double feature came out about 12 years ago. Oh, Death Proof. Yeah. Same guy is the stunt driver for what's his name? Who's the main actor in it? stunt man, Mike. Kurt Russell. Yeah, he plays Kurt Russell. He's like Kurt Russell stuntman. driver in the movie. And that movie has the most insane stunts that are all practical. Yeah. And it's the same guy.
That's really cool. No, I did not know that. That's awesome. Yeah,
I had to look that up. Because I was like, because there's also just a level of danger. You can tell people are not really wanting to take on, right. And that guy doesn't give a shit. Because if you watch Death Proof, you're like, Okay, nobody died. I guess it was cool. But there's so many scenes in that movie where you can tell there's no CGI, there's no special effects. Right? And like someone's just hanging on to a car for dear life. And we're filming it and that's our movie.
Freakin besides just having good cast. Great crew.
Oh, yeah. And I mean, I think that's the peak of the movie is that now all of a sudden chance is spiraling out of control. And here is like literally one of the craziest car chases really the only one I can think of that's crazier is the one in French Connection because that one is so fucking dangerous and like both
leave it to freakin he's got a little bit of chance and destiny.
Maybe it's because yeah, that's I mean that's the thing is you watch the movie at this point and like chance becomes full anti-hero like he hasn't no chance of solving the case of winning anything in court. The dude turns out to be a federal agent that got murdered like that, you know, they get into the later when he talks to the lawyer, what how he can get away with it and all this different stuff, but they're starting to rack up bodies, you know, same way that the masters did.
Yeah, no, that's a great point. It's a great word. He is an anti hero in every way.
And he's above the law. I mean, it's a classic story of a police, a law enforcement person taking the law into their own hands. But like to such a degree that they've literally a lot of times people take the law into their own hands, but they get the job done. Like this is not that movie. This is the other above the law where this guy has no idea what he's doing, and really so much put a stop to him.
Well, the feds do not stop him. They get away, chance, outwits them, his driving skills, his survival instincts, they get away. And like when they park in this little discreet neighborhood, and he's elated. And you look at Vukovich and he's about to die. Like he just can't even believe what just happened?
Well, I mean, even in chances, might I get it that he's just on the high end, he's manic and he doesn't care. But literally like 40 Plus cars just crashed in this car chase,
you're out to get this guy. And you could have killed 100 innocent people.
Yeah, he's kind of like he killed the cop. That was not cool. But he kind of goes after criminals, and like counterfeit money. But is it really that bad? Like what's worth that are like 50 people almost being killed in a car chase? Yeah. Their cars being destroyed when you
take that view of it? Yes. It's absurd what he just put la through. Not to mention, this would be the most talked about thing on the news. However, there was any it wasn't completely
brushed under the rug. It's just like, ah, yeah, that happened. And moving on. I think there's a manic energy to the direction of the movie and what he was doing. And so it's, and also, once the movie picks up steam, there's no time to reflect on anything or think or know, well, how would this work? Like, we're just on to the next more sensational stunt and action piece and whatever. We can't ever look back. But yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Even that scenes ends. And I thought that they were bad guys, because I didn't realize who they were exactly what they're doing. But there's like, all these cars piled up. And then there's these guys that get outside that are standing on top of the cars like waving their machine guns in the air, right. And yeah, everyone just supposed to say, hey, it's another day in LA, like, what's coming up tomorrow?
Chance gets out of the car. He already has a plan. He's kicking in the windows.
Well, he was excited. He was so happy that the car didn't get too smashed up, because then they could pretend like they weren't involved.
Right, exactly. And they made it so now we go to chance visits Ruth, and he's on top of the world. He's got 50k She can't believe it. She can't believe that that plan came into being. And he's got the 50k. And I like Jake that which is very topical now. But he comes in, and he does a little MJ reference. He's like Michael Jordan. He's a great player. But he's also bragging about this guy, Quinton Daly, who used to shoot these 30 foot shots and rest in peace quitting daily. He's since passed on, but like chance has been either. He's on this crazy, manic high from what just happened. He's got the money. He's coming in and talking basketball.
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's also the compartmentalization thing with a lot of people like this. And they get in these horrible situations. And like, yeah, if he took one second to think about the events of the last 24 hours and everything that he's created, he's responsible for pretty much all this. But yeah, I really liked that scene, because yeah, he's coming in and he's talking about basketball. It does take a very strange, very 80s turn where he kind of sexually assault his girlfriend, and then it just fades to black. Like, I was gonna say that part was a little weird. And that was also just like, what what are we trying to accomplish and show here? I mean, to me, that's when he went like full turn. He's almost the villain at this point. Like his partner wants nothing to do with what he's doing. He's gotten innocent people killed innocent people put in danger. And now his girlfriend he's just come home to He's crazy. He's ranting and raving about stuff. And then she makes it very clear. She doesn't want to do anything with them and classic 80s He just kind of forces himself and then they cut away so you don't really know what happened.
Well, her reaction was pretty unique too, because she gave him this tip. But the way she was worried she was like, I'm worried about this. So there was something else kind of going on. And you're right, listen, he basically for all intents and purposes Oh unser, that's his informant, and he can dangle losing parole put her back in jail. So what happened later? Well, we both know what happened later. So
that's who this guy is good for all Chauncey
that while I mean later, later, but later that night, this is chance. This is why he's at her house. He's, he's a man that
is on a mission, a mission of self destruction.
Yes, he's on a mission.
He's everything. He's not really he has no chance of getting Rick. He's into deep, which
I think he's I think he has a chance to get wrecked the plan is crazy or not. It's coming together.
I think in his mind, it still kind of works.
I know earlier. I said he'd have to explain the 30k if it came to being but knowing he Secret Service and knowing he's got friends in high places. Unfortunately, he might be able to cover it up. Like they plan well, the Well, they didn't kill them. And listen, he doesn't know he's a federal agent just yet.
Yeah. But they like went and got him to get money to do their own thing. Like he had nothing to do with what they were doing. Right. You need permission, you need warrants, you need a lot of things, a lot of people to sign off on that he was just fully operating by whatever he thought was the best thing to do.
True. So the next day, Bateman informs all the Secret Service that laying was undercover. It was a sting operation. And they're seeking these two people, but they have no leads,
which are them. I'm trying to think I was trying to show that what other what other movies have a cop in those classic scenes of what they're looking for that day. And it's them. I mean, I'm sure it's out there. But yeah, nothing sprang to mind. But it also I mean, it's cool, because then they knew that they didn't really know much.
You could also see this the first time that chance had a reality check. I think you realize, oh my god, what?
No, no, no, no, not at all. Because he goes outside. He goes outside afterwards. And he's talking to Vukovich. And he tells them they don't know about who they are.
No, I think he felt the stress of the situation. He stopped changing. He just felt like oh my god that happened. But who we got away with it. We got to stay the course. I don't think he's gonna go back and say anything. But you could tell
No, no, absolutely no. Vukovich though he's,
he's terrified. Yes, yes. Terrified, ready to go. And so yeah, they have an exchange. And he's just like, stay the cars I don't know who they're looking for. They don't know it's us. That didn't get a good enough description. Those guys are too far away. You know, way before cell phones were before a bunch of cameras. These guys were under the radar. Now chance without Vukovich visits masters. And there's Bianca and Serena, of course, and he pays masters 30k So he's using the money from the heist. Forget things in motion with Masters. And I love masters line when he looks at the money. You're beautiful. That's so great. And, Jake, my question to you is, does masters burn this? 30k
No, this one's real. He's not gonna burn real money. Yeah,
exactly. Are things of real value. He's not burning the real 30k Hey, if I'm doing a million dollar deal, I think I would ask for more money than 30k up front if I was masters, I'm just saying
reason logic level headed thinking that's all way out the window at this point for everybody.
You know, obviously most of these deals go bad. I would have definitely asked for more. Okay, so now Vukovich scared out of his mind starts meeting with Attorney Grimes again for advice on how to potentially turn on chance
Yeah, and this you know, I thought this was a good scene just kind of showed how lawyers fully within their legal rights can kind of play both sides and B this gray area of you know you can tell me about the crimes you commit but because of attorney client privilege, I can't tell anyone else type shit. And for 50k I was like that was also a weird he's very level headed. The attorney is very conniving very smart. Like if you could combine him and chance you'd have the perfect cop. But chance was just perfect all adrenaline all instinct just fully out of control.
But I kind of like that Vukovich is mad as he is doesn't want to rat but he did get the steps laid out like what would happen if I turned on him. You know you go to jail for seven years. Maybe you serve a year
buddy cop movie. I mean like what besides training day they never like they never turn on each other. Really? Yeah. That's a big no we can't
do that. And he wants to see this thing out but Vukovich is one foot in one foot out like this is just too much for him to deal with. So now chance again alone locates and apprehends Carl. So he's putting things together. He's got 50k He's paid massive 30k Oh, yeah, I got a parolee out here somewhere, gotta go by and do some detective work and scoop him up and sneaks in his place, holds off his girlfriend. And now he gets the drop on John's Tara, pay back.
That part was like a little silly, where he's waiting in the kitchen to toe comes in. And he has the gun like one foot away from them, and they fight over it, but no one shoots it. And we'll let that pass because there's a lot going on at this point. But that scene is a little questionable,
where it's just tying up loose ends. Yes, it's
a very tying up loose ends scene.
Let's knock that out. So now Vukovich calls Chase at Ruth's house, and he's in a bar, and he wants to give himself up. But he doesn't want to be a rat. So he's calling chance to say, Hey, I can't do this. Let's just give ourselves up.
And once you tell him, I don't remember the line. But I'm guessing it's no,
no, but he just says, Hey, man, I saw masters, we're still on. Like, this is the No, no pushing him off our point. And Vukovich is messed up and worked up and he's been drinking, as distraught as he is, he goes along with it.
Well, he's gotten this far down the rabbit hole, like his career is over. It's hard to say though, because they in the movie world, like maybe he still gets away with it. And maybe he you know, it's all forgotten. And there's parts of the movie. And there's elements that are very like film noir. And you could almost say that his girlfriend that sets them up, that provides the tip that puts them in this whole situation. She's kind of the femme fatale that brings about his downfall. And so you know, to me this is also the interesting part of the movie where it's very clear cut like willing to foes the bad guy. The cop is the good guy. Oh, he's a little crazy. Like Defoe, you never really see the human side of him. He's always pretty much bad. Through and Through. But chance really takes this fall where he's, he's not a good guy. He's not even something you're really rooting for, like his plan. You're not like, Alright, man, like, you can do this. You can pull this out. It's like, what are you doing? This is insanity.
Although, Jake, I gotta tell you, I'm still rooting for chanson Milkovich.
I was rooting for Vukovich. Which is also why the ending is is so weird, because I, to me, it just seemed like Vukovich was on for this ride that he didn't really sign up for. But then oddly, he kind of takes the mantle.
Like, can I just say, I know that we're it's easy to take shots at chance because he's just, he's crazy wild man. But William Peterson is playing him great. I really think that he does a great job. I believe him completely.
And I mean, how many? How many his whole persona? How many 1000s of movies have we seen where the good guy is the good guy. Like there's not a lot where the good guy is kind of a bad guy. And he kind of becomes a bad guy throughout the movie. And I don't even know if frickin would say that about
him. He probably called him the anti hero.
That was my takeaway was that this dude? I mean, I guess it's hard to really be on his side at the end.
So now, before masters heads out to meet the guys. I like that he's got a little present for Bianca. He serves up Serena and that nice little seductive number. That crew is into some kinky stuff, Jake. That's all I'm gonna say.
I mean, I was just a kid in the 80s. But name any dance crew in the 80s that wasn't kinky.
The New York City breakers weren't kinky. They were a great break dancers
that was breaking though we're talking about modern interpreted Oh, that's all that was. Those people seem like they weren't painting their face, like 80% of those people in the dance troupe all had heavy face paint on.
So now I know we've had timestamps throughout the movie, but the first one was December 20. This one's kind of significant because this is the end of the movie. January 30 515 hours. So it's early in the morning, but I liked the fact that it's only been about 40 days, this whole thing. I don't know what even needed it. But Friedkin had it throughout the movie. So there it is, and chance Vukovich go to meet masters and jack at the gym for the exchange and so starts to go down. They go on the locker room, locker 38 opens it up. There's the counterfeit money, chance looks up and he steals masters line. You're beautiful, although I think master said it better. And again, I got a kick out of that moment. But now check their plan from here, in my opinion, pretty risky because the guns in the handcuffs are in the briefcase. And that's the same briefcase that they Use Vukovich uses to push master so the plan is to push masters chance grab set briefcase opens it to pull out a gun there's just a lot because they got first on the way on by Jack I just thought man that is a wild plan to not have a plant somewhere the hopefully this works but chance has a gun on Jack Vukovich is holding masters and then I guess right now they they switch guys right
now they're on the same ones. Now let's switch to the switch. I thought they're on the same guys
is holding Jack at gunpoint. And Vukovich has
a chances holding masters
that comes up. Yeah, so he's holding jack back with a gun. And so he's holding jack back, and he tells Vukovich to get the cuffs cuff Jack and then he goes over to Masterson kind of roughed him up a little bit. And why Vukovich goes to get the cuffs. Of course Jack because this is his lay of the land. This is their place. He's got a shotgun and locker 51 opens it up churns masters goes to shoot him, and he does shoot him. But he also takes one where Jake in the face and the face
more like the the top of the face head area. And that's
a pretty graphic shot. Those effects are like what,
ya know, there's a gaping hole, which obviously, whoever sold freaking on the facts is like you want a gaping hole I can give you one. I'll give you two gaping holes, one for Jimmy one for chance. Unbelievable. But that scene was a mildly frustrating because I guess now that we've talked about it kind of makes sense. Like they couldn't have any backup because they were totally going rogue and they couldn't have anybody.
And I couldn't plant something in there like Jack kinda had the upper
hand like the God of them had it. And then Vukovich just kind of like looked away for a while he
just went to the cuffs he went to go grab the cuffs, but I mean, just hold Jack longer. That transition happens so quick, I would have those two guys the same space. And one gun can help them both, but it just was like, fast B they didn't anticipate Jack having a shotgun hidden in a locker. They dropped their guard there and then he did get a shot off. I'll give chance credit to protect himself but too little too late. And then that leads masters gives him time to flee. And Vukovich if you thought he was free 10 earlier. This is terrible for him. He's alive. He's not injured. But this is a messy guy. I guess Jack dies, what would you say? I mean, he took a fatal blow. I think so
he doesn't matter live or die?
Well, I'll just say he looks it looks down on him. And Masters is out the front door. So Vukovich gets his bearings, if you will. He runs outside and nearly gets run over by masters who just tears off right now that sequence. So now listen, not to make light of it. Game Changer. You do not see this device in very many movies that you're no
I was trying to think what other movies especially at the end,
psycho did it or you're following someone along? And then they're gone. So that really blew me away broke all the rules.
Yep. At what point not?
It's early on. First quarter, you're following Janet Lee's character? Yeah. First Quarter. That's an example. I've never seen it this late. And it was shocking. Now there is another movie, which I'm super fond of called The Place Beyond the Pines. And I don't know if you've seen this movie or not. But it's fantastic. So I better not tell you. But it has a similar device in the movie, but not this late in the movie. And so yeah, it's a game changer.
But to me, this is the interesting part. Because especially where it goes from here is that yeah, you never see the main character die, especially at the end. And then there was a weird dynamic that was building for at least the last 45 minutes where Vukovich is apprehensive, the voice of reason doesn't really agree with what chance is doing. But then as soon as chance gets killed, he kind of embodies chance. And then especially with the end of the movie, to like, all of a sudden, it's almost like there has to be a chance character, no matter what and it is chance for 90% of the movie. And then the last five or 10% All of a sudden Vukovich is sort of put in the same role and starts acting the same way.
It's interesting because just that night, just a few hours ago, he was at the bar ready to get out of this whole thing. And now he's seen chance die. He was there to discover Jimmy's body. He's now just soaked all this up. And so I like this when he nearly gets run over. He dives out of the way but on this Dr. Vukovic It starts to think and transform and probably like, what do I do? Jake, he's in too deep. If he tried to go put himself out there now, our wonderful attorney Grimes, he's not looking at the short sentence. The stakes are too high. Now, you've got another federal guy dead. So I think on that drive, so basically Vukovich goes looking for masters. And he also knew he had to drop on him because he remember that old studio he checked out. And when he goes in there, shares anything Masters is there burning everything, like masters likes to do stuff this time goes on. And so yeah, Vukovich is really starting to, like you said embody chance, like what would he do here? goes there, and then they get into a fight. You know, he's there to take down masters once and for all. But of course, Masters hits him with something knocks him out. He puts like kindling on him like, hey, he just assumes, like, down for the cat area. Weird. Yeah, let me just lay this on you surely Vukovich will just burn up in flames. But he does it Jake. He arises from the ground doing and fires away at him. Shooting masters who then becomes a blaze of flames, right? Yeah,
that's dope, man. That was like amazing, you know?
I know, they put on those suits, and the gel and all that stuff. But like, you could barely see the person waving their arms around. It's just a giant fireball.
I would venture to say this is the way Master's wants to go out if there's any way, you know.
Yeah. So when he was looking, gazing into the firewall, naked, burning his beautiful money, he was just having a vision of his future self burning, as well.
Like you said, you can't look at the sun too long. But this guy is fascinated by fire. And there's no more fitting way to go out. I'm just shocked. He didn't take whatever money he had and split town. But I guess he was tying up his own loose ends and didn't think that Vukovich or anyone else do where this place was.
I think that's also the point of the movie is that these cops knew he was a bad guy. They got on his trail, they started going after him. And they were literally going to stop at nothing until they got them. Right. They were so focused, so driven, the laws protocol, their own health and safety, all that goes out the window, and they were just a dog with a bone. You're gonna see it out to the bitter end. But there
was a moment that masters thought he had bested Vukovich and he was gonna light him on fire. So what happens if Vukovich is knocked out? Can't get up, burns up? What is masters go? What's his plan? set up shop somewhere else? What's driving him now? I guess he's got Bianca. And he's got some money. And so he could just kind of go reinvent himself. I don't know
he can go start his art career. Because that's that's how the movie ends. Yeah, maybe. Because Bianca, I mean, that's that's where it ends is that it's the sort of weird tacked on random girlfriend that survived at all that ends up getting all the money at the end. Because she, yeah, they think that his paintings were all burned up, but she kept them for herself. And
yeah, so that is the rest of that sequence. So no point in chatting about it because Masters is dead. Vukovich took him out. And yes, we're at the scene with our attorney, friend, amazing. Dean Stockwell. And Bianca is there and they do have this weird experience. There's the sex tape that he's watching going, you might want to take this with you. The house has cleared out, she's moving on, and she's got Serena driving. So yeah, if anyone was the winner here, it was probably the attorney and Bianca and Serena. But then
really the biggest unanswered questions of the movie, and I was curious to hear your take. But what the hell happens to Vukovich at the end of the day,
I said, winners. So now let's talk about Vukovich. So he's taken chances, you know, mission in life, and he fulfilled it. And like you said, he really that's a good way of putting it, he really embodied chance now, is it far fetched? Because he was just several hours ago, ready to get out of this whole game? But wow, what a shift. What a cosmic shift for him to say, no, now I'm the guy. And so he shows up at Ruth's house, and she's like, Yeah, I'm heading out of town, because, you know, she knows that she didn't tell them something and he's got to figure it out. Vukovich kind of put it together and said that you set us up, you set us up, and I need that other 20k that you cap and she's trying to say that now but I was owed some money and I got people to and I owe bills and he says now you're working for me now. And she looks at him. He is now chance. It's an amazing shift. He is now chance and she looks at him and Jake. She smiles feels like that's the role that she wants to be she wants to be. I don't know, in this weird dynamic with someone being the environment, they'll look after her keep her out of jail. I don't know. But
does she wanted though, because that's the weird thing because you never, you never see Vukovich in any point in the movie, looking up to chance and wanting to be like him. He's kind of subservient. And the second fiddle for sure, but he never really likes him too much or really wants to be like him. But then oddly, like going through all this traumatic shit in the movie, he just kind of morphs into him at the end.
I find it hard to believe, but I've come to accept it, because I'm so familiar with the film now. And I kind of liked that huge shift.
No, I like it. No, it doesn't have to be totally believable. And to me, that's the whole point of the movie, like a bad guy. And some good cops, you know, like cutting some corners to get the bad guy. Like, there's nothing unique about that. We've seen that a million times. But yeah, just this weird, this weird descent that the cops go down. It's almost like they gotta get sucked into this terrible mindset and way of being, and it sucks. chanson first, and then once he gets wasted, like it just picks the next person. It's like this weird, bad cop spirit thing that just like, you know, yeah, bad cop spirit thing is not as catchy of a title is to live and die in LA. But that could be the secondary one.
And I should point out before Ruth smiles, there's like a kind of an odd flashback with the scenes that she's remembering of chance, Hannah and her ham pulling up to her house. And I think that she just took all that in. And it's like, Oh, I know this. This is familiar, and smiles. And we're out.
We're not out because then after the credits, there's one more shot of chance.
I think that's just part of the flashback. I know, there's some theories that say, oh, no, he never died. And he's alive. It's like, no, that's just I think,
no, we saw him with a giant hole in his head. He's definitely dead. He was
killed. And I think it's in her mind. I think that some warm and fuzzies for this informant parolee who are now going to push those feelings on to Vukovich. It's like having a pimp. And I think some people
feel it's a very pimp line for sure.
I think life isn't balanced for someone who is used to having a pump. And they don't have a pump all this sudden, and she did try to out them and and set them up. But hey, life is much better when I got this guy in my life. And here he is. He's he's dead. But the new one just showed up. And this I know, and I think that's her take. Yeah, no. And I think he's quarter to I think Vukovich is like you know what, I know this,
but what does he do? What is like, in the in the logic of the movie? Because obviously, rationally it makes no sense. What's happened, there's a huge body count trail, like within the weapons at all on chance with in the mystique of the movie, what's the sequel that they never made? What happens to Vukovich?
Assuming he can sidestep all of the craziness, because all players are dead? So it's his word against theirs? Like, were you at that meeting with chance? No, I was
not even like the specifics of how he gets away with it. But just what happens to him, he just becomes the new chance.
But maybe not to that degree. I don't know how far he is how deep and dark he is. He might just be a guy that, you know, he's not quite as hardcore. But he breaks some of the rules but not hell bent on getting killed. Maybe Vukovich survival instincts are much higher, obviously they are. So maybe it's just he has a career now. And he can chase the more bad guys. But I wouldn't want to be Vukovich his partner. I'll just say that right now. I wouldn't want to be Vukovich so that's it. Loved it. Love the groundbreaking storytelling, character development, killing your lead, following a new thread. Really, William freakin Bravo. What a ride water right. Now I got a little trivia and I'll share them with you in the audience really quickly. So because of the project's relatively low budget, William freaking decided not to cast established stars. And so freakin being from Chicago was familiar with fellow Chicago and William Peterson's work. And after a script reading, he immediately offered Peterson the part of chance. Now Peterson and John Pankow were longtime friends and had acted in many Chicago area projects. So he recommended him for the role of Vukovich freak and then ran a scene with Pacquiao and cast him on the spot. So bam, got his two guys just like that. And Jake, I gotta say, Great casting.
They did have a good dynamic. There was never that like unsaid tension between the two of them. There's a lot of questions about the movie, right? That's never one of them.
Exactly. They had great chemistry, and I would have been distracting to have a name in that spot. And I love the fact that everyone in this movie, not a no name, but they were like pre stars. And I like that. But
that's the weird part about watching it. 30 Whatever years later, is you're like, What the hell's the guy from mad about you doing like, running around in this movie?
I didn't know he was a badass. Yeah, yeah, good point, now and frequence memoir, the freakin connection, which by the way I read and his fabulous and well worth the time. He says that the fake money they made was so good. After some of it left the set. He eventually heard from the Secret Service and a US Attorney after he avoided a confrontation with them, freakin states. When the film came out. There were news stories about people trying to make counterfeit money. After seeing the step by step process and our film. I took some of the 20s those printed on both sides, of course, put them on my wallet, and I spent them in restaurants, shoeshine parlors, and elsewhere. The money was that good? That is alone
for shoeshine guy, like get arrested because William freaking gave me 20 bucks that he tried to then use at the supermarket.
Let's hope that that shoeshine guy, not get arrested. Let's hope it just kept going down the road. But know
what it really shows is that frickin was very committed to a realistic, dangerous style of filmmaking. I mean, so many things now are so fake and take pleasure in the fact that they're fake. You know, he liked real car chases, real danger, and apparently real counterfeiting as well.
Yeah, and spent that money. So the car chase sequence, which we talked about a lot, of course, took six weeks to shoot. It was the last thing they shot. So that if anything happened to one of the principal actors, the filmmakers that at least have the bulk of the movie completed without having to replace anybody. That makes sense. Six weeks, man, and they really stretched $6 million. I gotta tell ya, you couldn't show this to someone and say, I just need 6 million I can pull this thing off. That's insane. And it was shot on film. I mean,
they're all low budget that wasn't exorcist. Low budget. French Connection with low budget.
Yes, French Connection was also the 70s. But yeah, it was. Alright, last one. This script originally called for Vukovich to die in the locker room shootout. At the very last minute, William freaking decided to change the story having chance die instead, and then have Vukovich take on some of chances characteristics, which we talked about. Their reasoning was that no one would ever expect the hero even an antihero to die before that climactic showdown. Now Totally agree. It was a shocker. But MGM was nervous about this and asked freaking to shoot a different ending, frequent shot and alternate take of the locker room shootout in which chances hitting the stomach instead of the head. And he shot an alternate ending with chance and Vukovich and they're transferred to a remote station outside Anchorage, Alaska. By the way, I've seen the scene on YouTube. It's insane.
Well, it sounds like one of those scenes where they they intentionally make it the worst thing ever so that they don't even have a choice of using it.
Good point exactly. And freaking absolutely hated the ending and insisted on the original. Thank goodness. Could you imagine that being the
ending? We would not be talking about it if that's what he did.
I would be shaking my head just what a waste. Thanks again Jake for joining me it was a pleasure having you on and discussing this incredible movie together
and I will not be a podcast version anymore.
So thanks so much for listening. And please be sure to subscribe rate and review the show wherever you get your podcast. You can also follow us on social media at let's talk movies, or check out our other shows at just curious media.com. So without further ado, please enjoy