Hello, lovely quiet rebels. I'm super, super excited for that episode today because if you read the title, then you know there's going to be a super important one. And that is how we can start thinking about money through the lens of safety. And if you know me, well, you know that I talk about visibility all the time from the lens of safety as well. Some things are not as simple as it seems on the surface. And that's why I have my amazing friend and phenomenal business coach, Megan Hale on this episode today to come to us to talk about all of these things. So Megan, thank you so much for coming on today.
I am so glad to be here. Thank you for having me.
Yes. So before we get into all of the girls like taking a holistic approach to money, practical tools, because I, you're extremely practical when you teach as well. And just really seeing money through the lens of safety, spirituality, somatic systems and skills. Before we get into all of that goodness, I'd love to ask you, how did you start getting into this? This work? Because I know your your history was actually in psychotherapy for a while, but we met in our trauma sensitivity class together. So yes, tell us all the things. Yes. So
I often tell people that money really chose me, if you would have told me that this would have been the thing I was helping people with, like five years ago, I would have been like, Who me and I definitely worked through the who, who me and who am I is, um, before I stepped into this work, but 2018 ended up being a really healing year for me when it comes to money. And given my background as a psychotherapist, I started to notice that there were a lot of parallels with how we create healthy human to human relationships with how we actually create a healthy relationship to money. So through my own healing journey through my background, and leaving through all these different philosophies and theories and practical applications, especially with relationship dynamics, I started to step into this new arena of really talking to entrepreneurs, specifically when it comes to money, because as you know, money is a big part of having a successful, but also a sustainable business and feeling like you are being supported by your business, creating financial abundance, but also financial independence, security, stability, all of these things actually create a sense of safety for us in the world. And so I firmly believe that sometimes we are given mountains to show others that they can be moved and money has been that way for me. And so that is how I kind of came into this work now.
I'm not gonna lie when when you said mounted remove, I immediately thought the Miley Cyrus. Good, that's just alert that but anyhow. Yeah, that was that was something that was extremely eye opening to me, because I first became aware of you, you know, through our shared space when we were becoming certified in trauma sensitive leadership, yes. Then when I, you know, immerse myself more and more into your world, I saw that you're the only person I've ever seen talk about money. And our relationship to it when you spoke about in the context of attachment styles, almost like, Oh, wow. And then of course, when you shared your background that of course, that makes total sense. So, so you had a super healing journey in 2018. And then you just started noticing those parallels and start to seeing where a lot of entrepreneurs struggle, and who doesn't want to feel safer and secure and feeling like our money supports us in such a sustainable way. So as you work with your with your clients, whether it's in your group programs, your mastermind, etc. What has been the common tipping point, like, when do you see that shift start to happen when instead of feeling like we're chasing and working for money that just seems to turn the turntable on its head? You know, the table analogy? Yes.
Well, I think that there's a couple of different things. I would say that, first and foremost, I think there's a lot of conversation in the money space in particular, that if we are not making the amount of money that we want to that there's a worthiness issue. And so then we go and do all this work around worthiness, which that was my journey. I did three years of worthiness work, not specifically for money, but money was definitely a piece of that. And really came to a place where I had unraveled a lot of my stories around enoughness I have a whole podcast about just that enoughness revolution for me, and knew that I believe strongly in my body of work, I believe strongly in my ability to help other people. That was not the reason why I was also getting into more money. So that's one piece as I think a lot of times we feel like we have To do all the inner work first, and then we can step into more earning, what I have found is that actually these two processes really need to be parallel, that earning is actually healing. So when we see things working in our business, when we see ourselves charging or commanding higher rates, when we see things starting to take off, that's a very healing experience for us to receive. And so the first shift that I see for people is the sequence, that we don't have to do all the inner work first, before we step into more money that we can actually do both at the same time. So that's one, two, when it comes to money mindset. Of course, we all have beliefs, we have transgenerational family patterns, we have some real things to rewrite and to be defined for ourselves. But money is also something that we have to intentionally structure. And so if we want our money to come to us in a certain way, we actually have to design it that way through our business model, and our offers and our payment plans and our pricing models and all of those things. And so I think that's the other shift is people think that we're just going to sit back and manifest money, when there's actually like foundational pieces in your business that need to be in place. And I think that's why my approach especially like, when we get into numbers, and spreadsheets, and margins, and price points and all that stuff, you start to see why your money actually doesn't feel as reliable as you want it to feel doesn't feel as sustainable, because you haven't intentionally designed it that way. And most of us don't even know that we're doing it. Because we don't come into business with a lot of financial education or knowledge. I certainly didn't, I had to figure it out on my own. So I think that those are probably the two biggest shifts is hurting his healing, we can do both at the same time. And when it comes to stepping into more money is not just mindset alone, like we have to have the systems, the structures and the strategies combined with all of the inner work. And that's why I think a holistic approach to money is so powerful.
Yes, I absolutely love that. And when I had to kind of keep in a small laugh when you said, oh, yeah, we can't just sit back and manifest money. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm a manifester, in regards to human design, right, and so, like, I don't want to poke holes and make fun of that. But you're right, that there is a proactivity that we need to engage in so that we're not just sitting in waiting, like, there's some things that we can absolutely do to help it along to meet the universe halfway.
Let's Yes, absolutely.
So oftentimes, when I wouldn't, because I've had plenty of money conversations, I've taken a lot of money courses, and it's often one or the other is often that like, Okay, we okay, you say you want this much, okay, let's reverse engineer, like how many hours you have available, and therefore what price you need to have, right? And sometimes slapping on a huge price tag with how much time I have available just just doesn't just doesn't align, it just doesn't fit because just feels like I've been ripped out of my comfort zone. Like I'm, I'm happy to expand my comfort zone. But when I leave out of it in a way that genuinely feels unsafe, not uncomfortable, or unsafe, that's when we start retreating like, Okay, I don't think I can actually clean this number. And then we'll do that inner work. It's kind of like, okay, I see where this could be coming from because of family history and relationships, etc, etc. All these stories that we need to acknowledge and kind of expand our perspective on. So how would you? Like how would we even get started with with really engaging in a holistic money approach? Because if these two things are meant to happen at the same time, like, how do we get started with that?
Yes. So two things that I want to offer with that, I think, I believe strongly in the importance of embodiment, and embodied price points. So if you cannot stand at a price point from a place of safety, and comfort, doesn't mean that we have to be like, I do think that we should stretch ourselves, right. But I think there's a difference between being uncomfortable and being unsafe. And we all have to find that line for ourselves. The reason that that's so important, is when we are disembodied with our price points, what comes up oftentimes, in the actual sales conversation is we get into this place of like justifying why this price is so much. And that comes across as convincing energy for the client who's on the receiving end of that, right, when you're really trying to convince yourself because it's you're out of alignment with it. And so I really encourage my people, I would much rather you stand on a price point that feels embodied and create safety with that first, because that's the thing that's going to allow you to create that stepping stone into that higher price point like we can absolutely create bridge price points, right. Where this is my safety zone. This price feels wildly unsafe, but it'd be lovely to have, you know, and then where's that middle like to start moving yourself and also your audience in that direction, because I think oftentimes if we do a big price jump, and an offer, and our audience is used to buying from us at a certain rate, like, they're like, whoa, what just happened? Right? So I think that there's always a gradual process that we can take ourselves on, and then also our clients. When it comes to a holistic approach, though, one of the biggest practices that I want to invite people into is to have a daily meeting with your money, daily meeting. And for those of you who might have more of an avoidant attachment style, that might feel really challenging, because from an avoidance standpoint, we oftentimes don't want to look at our money, we don't want to talk about money, think about money, engage with money, because of the feelings that creates for us. However, creating a sense of safety, is actually learning to approach. And so what I invite my clients into is, we start with like, just a couple of minutes a day of just opening up a spreadsheet or opening up your accounts, however you like to interact with your money. The thing that I find so fascinating about this is that if you keep us consistent money practice, we show up just for a couple minutes a day, you're going to notice how other things that are going on in your life get projected onto money. Because money, it's going to move, it's going to fluctuate. But so do all of our emotions, so do all of our stress states. So do like all of these other variables that go on in our lives. And so in 2018, when I started shifting into a different relationship with money, I sat down with my spreadsheets every single day. And that's when I noticed some days, I would show up, and I didn't want to look at the numbers. And I was like, why is that? Is has something changed with my money and had very consistent revenue that year? So I was like, I know nothing has shifted there. So what is it what's shifting in me? Or some days, I would show up, and I would be very anxious, and I'd be micromanaging all of the things and like, oh, so I'm trying to create a sense of control with money, what's going on there. And so having a consistent practice gives you a window to examine what you might be projecting onto money, how it shifts, how it moves all of those pieces. And I think that awareness is so incredibly key for starting to create, like somatic safety, right? Because those days, when you show up and you're anxious, you feel unsafe. Those days, when you show avoidance, you feel unsafe. And so how can you create a container for yourself to witness be a compassionate witness and just breathe through it for a couple of minutes? Because that's going to build capacity? For more money safety to come through?
I wish I was aware of your work like right at the beginning of
so many people say which I love. But we need to be having these conversations for.
Yes, absolutely. And as soon as you mentioned having a daily meeting money, I immediately felt something in my body that I show you into that. And I'm like, oh, okay, I wonder what's happening there. So you mentioned Cymatics. So could you for anyone who is listening? I'm not quite sure what that means. Could you explain briefly what what you mean by having a somatic approach?
Yes. So I want you to, we all are aware that we have nervous systems. So our nervous systems are always regulating us in regards to what is safe and what is not. If we are activated or triggered, then we're going to feel that nervous system kick up, and we're going to be elevated, right? And so that absolutely shows up with money. Very much so with money for most of us. And so for us to create a sense of safety with money, what most people do is they only stay in their head of like, well, I have to work on affirmations or I have to work on my beliefs or I have to work below a lot. That's valid work. But true safety is when we feel it in our bodies. Yes. And so through a little bit of exposure therapy, which is basically what I'm inviting you into with the daily practice, you're continuously exposing yourself to something that's interacting with your nervous system. And when we feel safe in our bodies, especially when we build that safety over time, when we do have a day where we're feeling anxious about money, or fearful or worrisome, which can be very real, by the way, right? Because I think that that's something that's something that's often like very dismissed than the money mindset space of like, if you have money, fears or concerns is like because you have poor money mindset. It's like if we have a financial trauma that we're going through, if we have like a huge shift and financial needs and need more revenue all this time, like those are very real things that we need to pay attention to. But building up money safety over time. It's like it's not going to be projected onto money, that you still get to be safe with money. You're going to partner with money, you know, part of money is here to support you. It's always on its way and then you can move into more of the strategic piece. He says like, so what do I need to do? Strategically, in order to open myself up to more revenue or heal this financial trauma, whatever that is. So, somatic safety is going to allow you like your nervous system to relax in the presence of money. And I just want you to imagine how powerful that is.
I'm actually in a relaxed state now. And I think to myself, how beautiful would that be and how collaborative it would feel. If this was a state that was constantly accessible? When money came into the picture of convocation?
Yes, and I think it would be really helpful for me to kind of draw a parallel here. So I want you to imagine that you are in a relationship with a person. And there's been a lot of conflict in this relationship. You're never quite sure, like, where this person is going to be emotionally. And so you're kind of walking on eggshells a lot of the time, because there's a lot of tension in the relationship. When you're in a relationship dynamic like that, you're always a little elevated, because your nervous system is like, I don't know how safe I am here, do I need to be prepared for disagreement what I don't know what I'm walking into? Yeah, we absolutely experienced the same dynamics of money. And so I want you to imagine that you are in a very supportive relationship, where you know that you can show up with your full self. If one day you show up and you are completely falling apart, you have had the most difficult day and you're in tears, and you're like, I just need a hug, I need to be comforted. When you're in that safe partnership, you know, that person is going to come and hold you that there's nothing that you can show them that's going to make them run away. Like they're there. They're your person, the safety that is there, to fully express to be who you are to know that you are loved and accepted no matter what, right. And I want you to imagine that money can feel the same exact way.
Kind of grinning from ear to ear. Because literally this morning, at the time of this recording, there was something that threw me off. And to help regulate myself I do like my partner, I normally just go into the bed, I'm like, I need a cuddle. And then she, she would just like kind of like stroke my back or pat my head or something just like as if I was a little kid, but I always feel so comforted. And then afterwards, we went to the gym together because I felt like I needed another way to regulate myself. That was purely me. Because sometimes I need someone else. But I also want to normalize how I can regulate myself as well. So that's where the gym came in. And so when you're describing that eggshell feeling like yeah, I can absolutely picture another relationship where it felt like that was like, you never know whether it's something's okay or not. Right? And it's, and it does put you in a constant state of anxiety, or at least for me anyway. And so I love how you're able that that you share these, like two very different relationships and how we can apply those to our relationship with money. Because money is our partner as well. Yes, yes. Oh, gosh, oh, this is so good. Yes. All right. So when we've become aware of that, and when we start becoming, to do those little money meetings that you said, like, you know, in a very consistent practice, what other practical tools do you suggest? Like, we can start trying out just to kind of like, what, what else can we do alongside those money meetings to kind of like, okay, it's just kind of work on this relationship, let's just say,
Yes, well, I think that's where like a couple of different lenses come in. So I think one being aware of your attachment style with money is very helpful because it helps you make meaning of what it is that you're experiencing with money first and foremost, it will also give you a deeper insight into why like, just mindset alone is not going to be enough to to shift the way that money feels. I'm sure we've all had that experience where we're like doing the affirmations and we're journaling them out and we're seeing them in the mirror and then it's like it doesn't actually fully land in our
body. Yeah. Like really. Like, it's like you're putting on icing on a Styrofoam cake is like the cake is not going to be delicious. Because the frost frosting may be good and everything but there's no actual cake here. So and before we actually dive into that a bit more, I realized that I've learned the attachment styles. You know, in my, my a level psychology. Anyone who probably hasn't studied psychology before and they're not quite sure what attachment styles are even available. Could you give us a quick a recap of what the attachment styles all and how this could show up in our relationship with money.
Yes, for sure. So there's four key to attachment styles. And this literally comes from, like developmental theory. So if you are familiar with psychology at all, we're really talking about attachment styles that show up with, with the child parent relationship. So we have anxious attachment style, which usually means that we're never quite sure, like where we are in relationship with someone. And so we're always kind of experiencing that heightened state of anxiety of like, is that person mad at me? Or are we okay? Is there a strong sense of belonging, and so you tend to have a lot of rumination going and kind of going back and forth over conversations. If this were to show up with money for you, you might be going over like past purchases past investments over and over again, like really spending a lot of time or ruminating on your financial decisions. This also might show up from a place of micromanaging either your spending or partners stuff, which shows up in relationships. So that's why like money work is not only going to shift your business, it will absolutely ripple out into literally every area of your life because money intersects with every single area of our lives. That has been one of the most profound things because it's like, wow, we can look at all of these different areas. But if you have an attach an anxious attachment style, you're likely going to feel that worry that sense of rumination and you might also have like hyper fixation on money, or you might have some checking behaviors, like you're always logging into your account, you're always kind of checking in with the money, right? Never able to relax, we also have the opposite, which is avoidance, which is like don't want to talk about it, don't want to think about it, don't want to dream with it, I wish money didn't exist, right. And in this state, we're really trying to regulate ourselves by creating a huge separation. I don't want to experience this, I don't feel safe exploring it. And so for this attachment style, we are not checking on our accounts or you're not having any conversations. You might even have like forgotten passwords to specific financial funds, like you're really trying to distance yourself from money as much as possible. If this is showing up, in your partnership, you likely get very like financial conversations. Like you have to like actually work up to them. Really prepare yourself to sit down have them and you likely don't have a large capacity to talk about money for very long. The problem with avoidant attachment styles is money is a part of everything. And so it's part of your well being especially and that's 100% true when it comes to your business. So we have avoidant we have anxious and I want you to imagine that these are on two sides of the spectrum. And then what we also have a technique in psychology, you would call this a disorganized attachment style, which is kind of a bit of both, I call this more of a combined type because I feel like it's a little bit easier to explain. And that's my type. So the combined type means that you kind of swing on the pendulum between the weak anxious one day and avoidant the next which is really fun. It's really hard to feel very grounded and safe with money. But the ultimate attachment style that we're really looking for is secure attachment, when we know that we are safe, and we know that money is always here to support us and all of those beautiful things. So most people really resonate with one of those attachment styles. And the question that I often get asked is, this will likely bring up some reflection for you on what your attachment style is with other people. Yeah, just because you have, let's say, an anxious attachment style with people doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have an anxious attachment style with money. So this will be unique between you and money. And I just want to mention that for anyone who's listening.
Yeah, my mind immediately went to like, oh, I have an attachment style X to this person. Therefore, that means I have this same relationship with money. But I really appreciate you just pointing that out. Because yes, some things can apply. And the other the opposite would apply in a different context.
Yeah. Okay. Well, that's very important for Cymatics. So I want you to imagine that you're starting to shift into safe money. So you're going to have a daily practice. And what else can you do? Well, you're going to notice that there's other layers that start to present themselves. So we all have like I would approach this from a place of spirituality because we all have our own spiritual beliefs with money. We have spiritual conditioning, religious conditioning, you were raised in a religious household, especially how that shows up in your transgenerational story. Because our spiritual beliefs with money are typically passed down from generation to generation, just like religion, just like spiritual practices are so So as you are meeting with your money daily, and you're experiencing, you know, anxiety, one day avoidance snacks, whatever is showing up for you, the container that you're creating for yourself to re examine what's present, is a really powerful window of starting to examine, like, where did I learn this belief? Whose belief is this? How is this belief formed? So when we're starting to do transgenerational money work, I find that it's really helpful to one clarify who are your biggest financial models in your family line? What were their strongest money beliefs? What did they model for you? What did you hear repeated over and over again, in your family system? Then ask yourself, is that true for you? Because what most of us do is we're living our lives based on somebody else's financial truth, versus our own. And if you want to get free with money, if you want to be safe with money, getting to a place of your own financial truth is going to be 100%. Necessary. And so an example of this, my paternal grandmother was a very strong financial figure. She was always Dean's the one who is super smart with money, like she was the one right? Good with money. And we all have stories around what it means to be good, smart, responsible with money, by the way, and for her to be in the debt. The worst thing, worst place you could be. And when I started, do my money work, I was 30k in debt. So felt huge amount of financial shame. Felt like a financial failure, felt like a financial obligation to my family felt this almost like debt has like hands around my neck. Like that's how intensive help. And we're doing this money work of meeting when my money every day when I was meeting with that feeling every day, which gave me the opportunity to re examine it. Like, is this how I view debt? And why did she have such strong views around debt? Right? We can go into historical context of how like what was going on in the culture, of why debt was so wrong for her. Right? She grew up in the Great Depression, which was a huge financial cultural shift for so many people. You don't want to owe anybody anything. Right. She also had some lived experiences of losing her mother when she was very young and having to form this strong sense of independence and not was her safety place to be dependent on somebody else, especially financially felt very unsafe for her. So when I started to look at her relationship with debt, through the historical context, through her lived experiences, not to mention all of the oppressive systems, like patriarchy, capitalism, white supremacy, right. So much started to shake out for me, like, Oh, this is this made sense for her to feel safe. But this perspective on debt actually doesn't feel safe. For me, it feels harmful. Yeah. And that gave me an opportunity to start to redefine that. So really, understanding your transformational family stories when it comes to money is really, really important piece. And money is absolutely intersected with like spirituality, religious beliefs, systemic institutions, like all of it. So really starting to examine that as important piece.
I really appreciate you sharing, you know, from your own family history as well. from your, from your, say your grandmother or great grandmother, grandmother, grandmother. Yes. Because naturally, of course, I started thinking of my own and yes, I like I'm, my parents immigrated over here when they were young children in the past when they were still in our homeland and Hong Kong. Sometimes, you know, my, my grandparents, like one of them would go overseas to the UK and then find a place to work out then send money back and when there was enough money then they can be brought over. So money meant being with family. Yes, you know, and not having enough of it meant being apart from each other. And then I'm just starting to see like the ripple effects. Yes, and how why why my my dad for example, he's very much a if you're not working hard, if you're not always busy, then you're being lazy. You're not earning the money you could and all of that. So it for me to be the complete opposite and to prioritize rest because I've been the kind of person who works, works works and I drove myself into the ground, I got sick and burnt out for ages. So for me it is harmful, like you said, in your own story. It's harmful to repeat that same narrative for my for my personal life, because I'm just built differently and I'm in a different generation as well. And these opportunities I have on my is more abundant for me than they were for my parents because of the level of education, I've been able to access thanks to thanks to them, you know, bring for them coming over and raising us. And we're British citizens, my sister and I. So yeah, it's just like, kind of like just acknowledging why, and where those narratives may have come from in our generations and to appreciate that for others, but not to take that on as a form of respect, either. I think that is
you just shared so many big pieces, like even just the generational differences, because we're growing up in a completely different world than our parents grew up in, and most certainly, our grandparents, and we have our own, you know, financial events that are happening within our generation to, you know, anytime we go through like a huge war, anytime we go through any political discord like anything like well, stock market crashes, like 2008, that happens, housing market, like, very different financial landscape. And I think looking at it through that lens of how this informed money beliefs is so powerful. And then you can even look at your own, like financial landscape of what's happening in your generation, how is that informing your financial beliefs that you're gonna be passing on? Because it's not just understanding our lineage? It's also being intentional with our legacy? You know, yes, I can talk about this all day. But So somatic safety is key, I'm really understanding your own transgenerational family stories, your spirituality, and all the ways the money intersects with that. That's more of like the inner work side. But we also need the the practical tools, the skills, the systems, about all of those pieces. And so if we want to feel safe with money, we also have to be developing our money skills, what does it look like to have financial knowledge to start having financial wisdom, so you can make smart investment decisions, so you have education on building wealth, so you know, what you need to be doing with your money, why you're doing it that way? How to direct your money. And so I think the systems and skills piece is really where I blend a lot of profit first, in, which is the cash flow methodology and certified in to really understand like margins, and how to allocate monies, make sure all your financial needs are covered. And then having a routine practice of actually playing with your money and doing the things that you wanted to do. And that's going to bring a high level of congruency so that you can make your money be really aligned with your values. And that's a very powerful place to be when you see how money can also be a collaborator for your values in the world and be an extension of those. Because money is such a powerful tool to do some amazing things in this world. So no work. practical tools really need a holistic approach, in my opinion, to really create a sense of safety and competence and well being when it comes to money. Yeah,
I couldn't agree more. And you're the first person I've ever learned from spoken to who blends the two, because again, normally is one or the other. And maybe they'll be the folks who, you know, focus on the spiritual aspects, the kind of people they attract probably do have the systems and skills in place, and therefore needs to do a lot more than in a work and vice versa as well. And for those of us who who need both, you're like the perfect person to to learn from when it comes to this sort of thing. So I know we've covered quite a lot, and there are so many different directions that we can turn to. But if for anyone who's listening right now, Megan, where would you recommend that they get started with? Like, is it the money meetings? Is it looking at, you know, that the current narratives that they have with money and how much of it is informed by the generations before us, etc? Like, like, Where can we even get started? Because there's a lot to work with.
Yes, I mean, I think I will give you some recommendations. But I think for everyone who's listening, I really want you to tune into what feels the safest step for you. Because that's the biggest piece. So there is no wrong way to get started with money. And I think that oftentimes money has been taught from a very confusing lens that's been more elite that's used as jargon. It keeps it confusing for a reason, like you start getting into the institutions of money, especially, you know, in the US, I'll speak from that experience. So that's my lived experience. This doesn't like we a lot of us carry messages are like, well, we just don't know about money, you know, because it's classist very much in our country. So, I want you to start first with what feels like the safest thing for you to do. Is it to start meeting with your money daily and holding that space for yourself noticing what is coming up starting to witness Start for yourself. You could start with my Quantum Leap number calculator, for instance, it's going to help you determine like, how much does your business need to be generating to cover six key financial needs for you that actually creates stability, security and safety. How does that number feel? When you look at it doesn't feel doable? Does it feel scary to step into? Do you have feelings of financial failure? If you didn't know this information before, like all of that stuff? Who knows what will be present for you, but even just looking at some actual numbers and margins will be an invitation? Or you can have a journaling practice and really starting to get curious, like, what do I believe about money? Where did I learn that from? Who are my biggest financial models in my family line? You can also go through more macro culture. What did I learn about money from my sense of spirituality or religion? What did I learn about money in school? In the US, hardly
anything. UK also barely anything? Yes. And
so just starting to get curious, is really important. And then also thinking about how do you want money to feel? Most of us don't ever really spend the time of defining that for ourselves? Typically, when I ask people how they want money to feel abundant, abundant, okay, and so what does that actually mean? Because to me, abundant means that there's always more than enough. Right? Yeah. So how much is first enough? What is enough, right now, what would be more than enough? Because the answer of like, more money, you'll never, there will always be more money. Right? So just like if your idea of enoughness is tied up with how much you're able to achieve, there's always going to be more for you to achieve. So you will constantly be chasing that bar on yourself never fully feeling enough. The same is true with money. If we define, I just want to have more money. There is always more money. Money is limitless, you know, so you have to really define, like, get into the numbers. Look at the numbers, because your numbers always going to tell you the story.
Yeah, so what I'm hearing from you here, especially in this part, is to get very specific with your request.
Money loves specificity. Yes, yes, yes.
And you briefly touched on your quantum leap calculator. And for anyone who's not aware of that, please let us know. Because I have been on the receiving end of your spreadsheets. And I think, like, so please tell us more about this calculator.
I will say a lot of people tell me that I'm like the spreadsheet whisperer, because, like, I was not a spreadsheet person before I started doing money work. It was really like in 2018, like, I restructured my business to take a quantum leap, which basically meant that I doubled my revenue within like four weeks and secured a whole year of cash flow with just one key offer. And it radically shifted my life. And so when I start sat down to do my money work every day in 2018, I had that reliable cash flow for the first time. And that was life changing for me. But that was also the year that I started really tracking money and getting into spreadsheets, and back then oh, my gosh, my spreadsheets were hideous, they were awful. They like did not have any soul in them. But these days, like, my spreadsheets are soulful. They're pretty they're like making money. You know. And so the constantly number calculator is really going to walk you through a couple of key processes, one getting really clear on your business financials and how much it's costing you to run your business every single month, then we're also going to do the exact same process with your personal financials, how much does it cost you to live your life every single month. And then we're going to take those two numbers to calculate how much your business needs to be earning in order to fund the business, to fund your life. And also prepare you to cover other financial needs one, making sure that you have profit and your business. So you always have more than enough, you always have spacious money, we have to design money to be spacious. That's how you want it to feel. We'll also make sure that your taxes are taken care of. We'll also make sure that you're able to give a little I have found that that creates such a meaningful connection between you and your money and you and your business. And that you're also earning enough to reinvest back into your business. And this is a financial need that I see a lot of entrepreneurs not take into consideration when they're thinking about how much do I really need to be making because I don't know everything there is to know in the world and I know you don't either. I know every single entrepreneur who's listening like we're going to need support. We're going to need to learn from mentors and coaches and programs and courses. And so we need to build that financial need into our money. And so the Quantum Leap number calculator is going to help you calculate how much you will He needs to be earning in order to have those six key financial needs met.
Again, like, I think everyone who doesn't use spreadsheets at this point, like, please consider using this calculator because I'm also not a spreadsheet person, but the way that you laid them out, they are pretty. And they're also extremely functional as well. And, um, because I, when I, when I was studying, like just, it was called it information technology back in school. I could never learn the the formulas and the code so that certain cells would add up all together. And I've written and I love that when I put the number, it just adds it all up for me like, yeah, thank you, none of it is.
I have to tell people like who are intimidated by spreadsheets, like I'm not doing a lot of advanced stuff in there. Like, I'm like summing things, I'm, I'm dividing something. It's like it's a basic, basic, you know, multiplication for the most part and math. And so I want to mention that, in case because here's the other thing, like math, trauma shows up for us, like when we start talking, like there's so many other things that start to become present. And so if you have a history of not feeling strong in science, or strong in math, like I didn't, spreadsheets or your friends because they like do all of it for you. So you don't have to worry about that. But everything that I do inside my spreadsheets is very approachable. And that's another piece of like, really feeling safe with money, you know?
Yeah. 100%. And it makes it a lot easier to look at, as well. So really appreciate you sharing that with us. And could you let us know where we could go to find out more information, how we can access this calculator and just in general, for anyone who's listening right now thinking, Oh, my gosh, I need more Megan in my life. Where can we go to stay connect with you to follow you, etc. So drop all your
links. Yeah, so you can access the calculator and Meghan hale.co is and companies slash QLNQ l n stands for your quantum leap number. So that will take you to the calculator. Megan hale.co is where I hang out on the internet. And you are more than welcome to follow me on Instagram as well. My handle is Megan Hale underscore and H my initials.
Right, perfect. And for anyone who's listening, thinking that, Oh, gosh, I need to write all this down. Don't worry, I've got you covered. All of the links will be available in the show notes. You don't need to remember a thing, but just to click on the link that you would like to, you know, learn more from Megan from. So thank you for sharing all of this goodness so far, Megan, I'm just so in awe of this approach. And it feels a lot more feasible. It doesn't feel so far away. It's like, oh, I can get started wherever I am. And I appreciate. When I asked like where can we get started? You invited us to consider what feels safe enough for us to start with. That is not a linear process that everybody starts from the same starting line is like no, no, no, you pick your start. So I so appreciate that. And for sharing this amazing resource for your quantum leap calculator as well and to stay connect with you. So I've got two final questions as we start wrapping up this conversation, which probably deserves a part two. So for those listening, if you want to make an impact, let me know. Final questions for you. Number one is what makes you a quiet rebel.
So I have always been a rebel like my whole life, I think probably many entrepreneurs would identify with that, because we're really forging our own way we're trying to create culture, and environments where we get to thrive, and that might be away from mainstream. The quiet part though, for me really shows up in not needing to be the loudest voice in the room. But wanting to be an intentional contributor, when I have something to say that I feel like it's going to be impactful. I share it. But for most people who are in in like shared spaces with me, I'm a silent observer. Like I take everything in, I'm watching everything that's happening. And then when I have something, you know, a value to add, that's when I'll add it. I also think that a quiet rebel for me, the way it shows up is really an advocacy work. I feel like there's lots of different ways to be an advocate in this world. There is being bold and verbal and saying the things that need to be said not definitely shows up in my work for sure. But it's also I think, more important about what's happening behind the scenes, what's the actual work that you're doing to create cultural shifts in your communities and your business in your life. So I feel like for me, that's a lot of quiet work of just actually doesn't need to be seen. It doesn't need to be validated. You know, there's not about getting a cookie. It's really about doing the discerning work that needs to be done. So that's where I would say, me being quiet and horrible for me,
I love that. As soon as you said, oh, yeah, don't feel like I need to be the loudest voice in the room. I was like, ah, because literally a part of our trainer. Sound like yes, yes, absolutely. And I really appreciate what you just said there as well about there's a lot of advocacy work. Like, yes, we can show to others, you know, how, how we're supporting people, etc. But, you know, we can't just be doing that there is a lot of internal work that we need to do in order to be true advocates, and especially if he wants to be allies, as well to certain groups as well. There's definitely a lot of introspection that's involved and a lot of unpacking, which is extremely uncomfortable a lot of the time. And you know, that that shows a difference, you know, between someone who is only a performative advocate, that is someone who is doing that work as well.
Yes. And I think one thing that I want to mention about this, especially as it relates to money is I teach the concept of feel good money, which has, you know, five pillars, one of them being meaningful money, meaning that our money is intentionally funding organizations that are creating systemic change that we see money partnering with us and our values in that way. If you're doing advocacy work, then you know the discomfort of sitting with your own biases, and dismantling oppression that exists within you. If you can do that work, and hold space for yourself and not discomfort. You already have all the tools, you need to do the exact same discomfort, like uncomfortable work with money. And I think that's the thing that people often don't see is that you already have all the skills needed to shift your relationship with money, you just haven't built that bridge there. And that's what I want to invite you into. You already got what you need. You just need to apply it to money.
Yeah. So it's kind of like, instead of a unbuilt bridge, it almost feels like that's a drop bridge. That's just kind of up right now. And we just need to be like to communicate with the other side. Hey, let down the drawbridge. Like, I noticed that let me cross. Exactly. Oh, gosh, off this conversation. So good. And I kind of don't want it to end. But of course, I want to respect your time. And that's why I have one final question for you, which gave you a heads up in the green room to marinate on. And I'm so curious what comes up for you here. So quiet rebels? If you are a frequent listener, then you know what's about to happen. Next, I just asked our guests a lot this kind of question. And if you are a new listener, you picked an amazing episode to get started with. And something that I love doing with all my guests is asking them this question. Because you're our guest today, I'd love to ask you. Do you have one weird fact or a fun story about you that no one else knows on the internet?
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I, I feel like I've shared a lot of like my worst stories. Podcast. I have a secret dream that I don't think anybody knows. So I fell in love with the desert last year. Never in a million years thought I would have this affinity for the desert. But I went out to Utah multiple times last year, and felt so incredibly small, in the best way possible. Because you're surrounded by these gorgeous canyons for as far as your I can see, that have been carved over millions and millions of years with air and water. And it's always a really powerful reminder for me of like, my life, like, Yes, life is meaningful and important. But it's also just such a small little dot. And it always was three inspires me to be even more intentional with how I'm using my time. So my secret dream is I had this vision move through of like, I want to open. I don't know if I want to open it, I might want to be an investor for whoever, this because I don't want to run it. But I want there to be a sanctuary somewhere out there that's really respectful of the land, the partners with indigenous people whose lands that will exist on and create a space for reflection, and just being because I think life goes so fast. And I am just so inspired by all of the magic that's out there in the desert. So I have a secret dream to be an investor for that one day. And so that's a lot of my inspiration for not just the legacy that I'm leading in my business but thinking beyond the business. I think that's a really powerful question to ask yourself as an entrepreneur to like, what do you want to do beyond your business? There's only one way to make an impact.
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. Dream with us. I think that's a beautiful One and the way you want to go about it as well. So if you do wind up ever me making or rather know you wanted to invest, ever wind up investing in this sanctuary that gets created, let me know we can start making something happen because I do remember you actually talking about this experience, not the dream part. But what it felt like for you to feel so small yet significant. When you were in that environment, I've only ever felt like that when I was in Japan when I saw how high they truly have skyscrapers. And I remember feeling so small, but not in a way that made me feel insignificant but actually made me feel significant instead. So I can only imagine what it's like to be outside of an urban area to actually experience that with nature as well. So that's such a beautiful dream. Thank you so much for sharing your dream with us. And for all of your wisdom and insights for today. Megan, you've been a truly incredible guests.