[34] Daylight Saving Time, Sleep Tracking, and Meditation Techniques

11:00PM Mar 12, 2024

Speakers:

Andrew Holecek

Ed O'Malley

Myra

Denise DeBaun

Keywords:

sleep

red light

data

light

melatonin

heart rate

question

night

people

increase

great

alpha

happening

hour

denise

lux

studies

asleep

meditating

body temperature

Welcome everyone. Andrew was going to be a tad late

then Maurice here, Karen, they're all the regular is Denise Barry, Barry's the regular picture. Hello. They're different every time. Barry that looks like that's not the top of Mount Greylock is it. Barry lives about an hour and a half hour and a quarter from me. So we're up in the same mountains here. Hey Tim. All right. We have a forum perform a quorum. So one more popping on that I mentioned that already that Andrew said he might be a few minutes late. So Gretchen one more pop and I'm Katie. Now Tom got it. Okay. Cool. Of course, it would be out in the middle of the country, the middle of Western Mass. Alright, so I'm going to start slowly as people are still popping in. Today we are going to Well, hopefully, which.

More Elise hopefully she's here because I have questions for her. Apparently I missed her. Somehow we missed her

question last time, so it will go it's going to start with it. First. I thought I'd start with the time change. Since that is all current for us and we're all still dealing with it in any which way we can. So daylight savings time versus standard time. Okay, actually no, maybe not. I know you probably already saw that. Okay, bye. We're gonna make this one interactive. Okay. So

with a show of hands and you can do your reactions, even if you're not on screen by a show of hands. Who would prefer daylight savings time? Let's see your see the hands raise. There's one it was going for it. myRA is going forward. Stephanie. That's three. Okay, you guys eventually are all going to lose unfortunately because because there is really no good reason. Except for the people who say there's an increase. There's an increase in sales is like a spike in sales when we go to daylight savings time and more people are out and about and can spend money. But the medical consequences of far too great for us to continue doing this. So it's not just someone said some scientists think permanent Daylight Savings Time is best while others think it will do more harm than good. Can you speak to the damage that is done by going back and forth? And you're right on there is a lot of damage that exists by going back and forth. So just about every sleep clinician who's published who's been on the major sites and the organizations, and many scientists strongly recommend eliminating daylight savings time. And that's because there are so many changes that follow the loss of an hour in the spring. There's increased accidents, auto accidents, work related performance decrements. There's increased illness lost productivity, or result in the day or days immediately following the time change. And I've just added I haven't seen anyone else report this but I've just added that. And if that's not enough what makes sense about adding an extra hour of sunlight in an increasingly hotter world, right. So like, what are we doing here? There really are no good reasons. The problem with moving the the clock and not start sticking with standard time is that we begin getting exposed to light much longer and much later in the day than is biologically feasible for systems and that's partly why we have issues and the second reason we have issues is because just that one hour shift. It takes people a while to catch up. And it particularly affects the elderly and so interesting, I wasn't going to put this but I have a 93 year old client who comes in religiously weekly and she was a mess today and I'm like what's going on and then she's like, I can't catch up the time is it hasn't really I'm just I don't I haven't eaten the last today's lunch because I didn't know when lunchtime was now there's some other issues with not knowing when last time is by the clock, but you know, it takes longer for those of us of a certain age range to come out of this story disorientation that shifting the times and we're going to have more questions about light tonight. So this is really timely in a lot of ways. No pun intended. Our circadian clocks have very spots have to light especially in the morning and evening. You've been hearing that right you've heard it from me, you've heard it from everyone else. By blue light affects us in the morning. And particularly, it affects us at night, right it suppresses melatonin and there's some good evidence coming out right now that red light actually boosts melatonin. And so yeah, I know Denise likes that Denise is the proprietor of the heat light that red light, which is being used for people to fall to help them fall asleep and to help them realign their circadian rhythms. And part of the ideas come from Salman Khan research. But also I think I mentioned this last time on the the International Space Station where they revamped the lighting to make it more amenable to the circadian system because the astronauts they're having Dawn and sunset every 18 hours or so. I mean, every 80 minutes, 90 minutes I think it's 90 I can't remember now but it's a lot of times they see the sun to go around the Earth. They see the sun they go around the earth to see the sun go around here. And so they have to have an internal lighting system that at least mimics what happens on Earth. So their internal circadian rhythms can allot pain to something that's close to what happens down here. So when they get up in the morning, they get exposed to bright white light. They have white light and sometimes added blue light. So the main component of bloom of sunlight in the morning is blue light. And so they enhance the white light with blue light to get their brains going. And then when they have particular tasks during the day, they actually you know, they bumped it a little bit with some blue light in particular areas where they're working when they have to really focus. And then at night at sunset time and beyond. The lighting shifts to red light, and then they go to sleep and they get up and the whole thing happens again. And so they're noticing improvements. I'm still looking for more hard data, you know Denise, you're hearing me I want to see some more sleep studies done that actually demonstrate that. The one study that I've been able to come across do I have it here? No, not yet. And wait a minute. I think I do hold on.

no, I guess I don't have I thought I had it here but I don't so um so they did the study in Chinese basketball players, but but they gave them full body red light, and they were exposed to it, I think for an hour night for 14 straight days. And they clearly had an increase in melatonin production. And their performance went up as well. So so we're going to see if there's more data coming down the pike Yeah. You Yeah, you know, I don't like going back and forth, but I do like it. I do like it like longer in the evening. Yeah, that'll happen. As we get to the summer when we're supposed to have longer light, you know, not in the spring. That's just not what we're biologically designed to do. And we know what happens when we do that for a longer period of time. You know, people, for instance, who work nights, we know there's a greater incidence of all kinds of illnesses, greater cancer levels, a variety of things that happen when we try to cheat our circadian rhythms. Hi, so. Yeah, so it's just more biologically feasible to keep our standard time and that's what I advocate for and pretty much every sleep specialist out there. So and you know, they tried a couple of times to get Daylight Savings Time permanent and it's been blocked, it's been blocked, and hopefully they're gonna listen to reason. There's so much data out there. By the way, all that that increase in accidents and increase in illnesses, heart attacks, ER visits, they all go up right now. And then in the fall, there's actually a reduction in those same numbers. So it's not spurious. It's not just an odd thing happening. It's an up and a down and up and a down. And so I mean, it doesn't take a brain scientist to figure that out. All right. Yeah. Working with Harvard sleep Cray, great. Good, good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Yeah. Chuck sizer is the big circadian guy who worked with NASA. Yeah, good stuff. So you know, Harvard says it you gotta believe it right? Most of the time, unless they get in political hot water. Alright, so that's the that's the Daylight Savings Time story. Let's move on. To question so this is the question somehow. I missed we all missed. Last time, I'm not sure when I guess was the last month but anyway, let's go on whereas here it is. So I'm trying to find the names of people who are submitting so I could put it up there just by your first name. So we're not identifying anyone but if you happen to be here, it's you're the one asking the question so we can find you and you can talk about it. Anyway, what is first throbbing of the heart or nightmarish dream con content when I wake up from a frustrating and nightmarish dream? My heart is also you know, often beating fast it is common. I wonder if it's the heart that leads to the nightmare. Generally, no, generally, it's always the nightmares. Dream content, which has an elevated emotional charge, which then either wakes the person or can still increase the heart rate like they've done studies where they can see heart rate going up in someone's dream and then they wake them and they find they were having a nightmare. They were scared they were frightened. They were running from something being chased being shot at whatever. So clearly, the the heart rate is definitely irregular during dream sleep during REM sleep for the most part, you know, it goes up a little bit down a little bit, but it is definitely associated with nightmarish dream content, and it almost always precedes it. It's the same as like during the weekday, right? When you have a frightening experience. You have an elevated heart rate. It's not you have an elevated heart rate, and then you have some scary experience. Although, okay, this stuff is all not always cut and dried. So even though it's a common reaction, both dream and wake states. There were some experiments done back in gosh, I think the 60s or the 70s I remember reading about him in abnormal psychology, where they gave they gave people injections of norepinephrine, which is a heavy duty stimulant, right. And they asked them to describe their feelings and certainly those A plus versus a you know, a saline placebo. And they had experiences of elevated heart rates. And then the emotion associated with that elevated heart rate was fear, frightening experience, they start having these images, and so you can go the other way you can induce probably induce a nightmare by elevating someone's heart rate artificially, but generally, the biological way it happens is heart rate. follows the emotional content. Okay. And then, of course, the more we meditate, the more we learn to respond to our world rather than react, then we could actually have less of a heart rate increase. And in fact, there was some good data from Richie Davidson's lab. You know, he was the guy, you know, he talks about him a lot. He's out in North Western Michigan. And they've done the experiment, you know, on the monks where they you know, the Tibetan monks and they have a ton of electrodes on and I have a great video I went to one of the mind in life things with the Dalai Lama and they had a picture they had. They had a camera on the monk in the he was in the booth, and he was sitting there. It was a Matthieu Ricard who was to happen who spoke like he's considered the happiest guy in the world. And he was, you know, he had a little smile on his face and he was doing a loving compassion. A metta meditation, and they were playing different sounds. They played the scream of a woman. A blood curdling scream everybody else in the audience isn't gonna. And his EGS which were live there was showing us at the same time it's, you hear the sound and the EEG doesn't change. His expression doesn't change. He can choose to respond, but he has so get a hold of his physiology, and understand how the world works for real can choose to respond or react if necessary, pretty wild stuff. So, moralise also asks, residents frequency breathing this this I'm assuming was Heart Math in the next question. She does refer to Heart Math. So I'm assuming this is about Heart Math. And the quick coherence technique is taught in HeartMath, as a way to bring your whole system into a coherent state pretty rapidly and essentially, it's going to your happy place. So if or bringing up gratitude or very positive emotion, something that makes you feel really good. You can go pretty quickly into a high coherence state. And I'll show you that data again. I presented it before in the Heart Math talks, but I'll show it again. Anyway, he finds that concentrating her breath on trying to produce high HRV coherence is difficult for her, whereas relaxed, meditative breathing. She said he is resulting in a very low coherence state. So I'm wondering if breathing technique, you know how it affects these which is better for preventing blood pressure, you know, high blood pressure and the other heart issues would be best to do both practices regularly or is meditative breathwork enough, well, that's really loaded. Okay. So first of all, there are a couple of different ways to do HeartMath these days. There's a new coherence app, which no longer gives you those values, you know, the older ones had. You could have,

you know, blue light to let you know, or blue tone to let you know you were coming into coherence and then the green would let you know you're in coherence. And then you could have a tone that let you know you're staying in it or you could have a tone that you know, just when you change state so you know how to get back in. And it's easy to get into that to start with when you just follow a typical, you know, four breaths in four breaths out or six breaths in six breaths out. And you can generally get into that in the in the lower levels. Now the coherence app doesn't show you that it doesn't give you any feedback unless you're in just gives you the coherence level you're in. And coherence can vary with age like everything else. Does so and sort of Heart Rate Variability at least the absolute values varies with age as well. And also you know how good your cardiovascular system is. And breathing rates also vary even with gender you know, and and lung size. Right and all that so anyway, in general. She if he pulls up this gratitude or appreciation at whatever respiratory rate is comfortable, I would find that would be most beneficial. The technique that is most relaxing in a sense the most meditative is probably going to provide the greatest physiologic benefit. On the other hand, you know, she's also asking about is she an alpha? Is the brain going into alpha while she's doing Heart Math? And does meditation require more of the data waves? Maybe the theta waves are what they're doing it? So you know, there's there's some evidence for both there's, in general, when you get into coherence in using HeartMath, again, which depending on which app you're using, but for the most part, you're in alpha frequency, but alpha is generally eight to 13, in that range somewhere. But the more you're in coherence, the more you're at the lower end of the Alpha frequency. And during meditation, you actually usually start in alpha and then come down and it slows down to high theta. Which is in some ways can be an overlap with low alpha. So and then again, it depends on whether you're doing shamatha have a passion, mantra meditation, you know. And so in some of these, like the passion and mantra, you're probably going to have some higher frequency, some beta activity as well, including maybe some bursts into gamma, but it's not sustained. Okay. So there are some differences. But, you know, I think the main factor here is that Wisconsin Yeah, thank you. Um, they're, you know, that there's not a lot of data out there, but the data was able to find this is an older study using this particular kind of yoga which is something they made up I think, it comes down to CUDA Leni, but they were, they just figured out how to, I don't know they came up with this system that helps raise Kundalini so you can imagine you can imagine, you're active, you're activating, you're doing something during this meditation and so in this case, you're gonna ignore these down here because what they're what they're really looking for is also complexity. And that's another whole story. But generally speaking, there's so you can see this increase in data one that actually some of the lower the data two is the higher theater, and then there's alpha one, which is the lower alpha and alpha two, which is the higher alpha. So you know, there's some overlap with some of the data I could find out there there are increases in theta. In this particular type of meditation, but also in a mindfulness meditation. So this is more recent data. I think this is 2014. The other one was 2002. So 20 years ago, this is more recent, still a decade ago. But they found something similar you know, there are just some of these there's there's a light increase in alpha that is significant. But really, the bigger differences are in theta here than in breakout where the low or high but also for mindfulness, which again, you're you're you're attending, right, it's more of like a shamatha than it is of a passionate so instead of attending to your senses, you're attending to an awareness level of some sort, and pulling up this your beta activity, and these are just different areas of the brain where they had sensors and most of this stuff they see with alpha and data are in, you know, basically from the temporal lobes on back and alpha is usually largest in the occipital lobe back here. Data they got some frontal beta as well. Frontal, Central, and parietal, so they have sensors here and their sensors here. So interesting. Oh, yeah, now we're gonna get to them. I don't know for some reason is exalted out of whack. Hold on a second here. Let's see anything coming into the chat. So let me know if you had any questions about that. Oh, I see what happened here. Okay. I mean doing this Okay, so I wanted to also get back to the heart rate variability again, just for more clarity on what's actually happening. So. So you might recall these slides. First of all, if you're looking just at heart rate, what you're seeing is a lot of variability and a lot of jaggedness to this over time. And this is just a few minutes, right? This is just, you know, three minutes. Where as the heart rate is very regular, sometimes it goes up a little bit, and sometimes it's a little bit lower towards the end here, but the variation is in very rhythmic fashion. And when this is happening, you're also following the rest of the physiologic systems in the body so the respiratory rate is doing the same thing. Post transit time is doing the same thing as the blood flow throughout the body. And these are just showing if you do a spectral analysis of those rhythms, you find this frequency, which is roughly roughly 1/10 1.12 cycles per second, which is about eight breaths per minute, six to eight, seven to eight breaths per minute. So it's that around the slower rate. But all of these are falling into synchrony. When you're doing relaxation. You're not in the same place. So in relaxation, what's happening? There's this low energy state. Everything is coming down. You're relaxing. You're relaxing, hopefully your mind and your body and you're not doing a heck of a lot. And if you do a spectral analysis on that, you find here's the real quiet stuff. And then here's some higher frequency stuff happening to but your heart rate in this particular case, is pretty low, because your system has really calmed down. But when you go into appreciation, there's an activation of positive emotions. Okay, there's an engagement to some extent. And so here you can see the heart rate varies, but again, you get that rhythmic variation, and you get into this, everything in the same place. And right here, the power spectral analysis, they have to break this here to get a high enough scale to show you how high because all this energy goes into one point, and it would be way off the scale right? The highest peak here is about 125 130. This peak goes up to close to 700. Okay, using the same scale, so it's a very different kettle of fish, so to speak. Okay. And this is probably closer to talking about the flow state where you're zoned in you're tuned in so it really helps you perform whatever you need to do. And it's kind of like where alpha takes you. Alpha is a state in which the brain is ready. The brain is active, but it's not doing anything just yet, but it's ready for whatever you want to throw at it. Whereas when you deeply relax, you quiet yourself your whole system, and you'll probably somewhere between low alpha and theta, you're starting to really quiet down like you would as you were going into meditation. But these are different states.

And is the red light any danger for people? Okay, we're gonna get to the red light in a second quick question. The eye muscles are not quick question from Francoise. The eye muscles are not subjected to sleep paralysis during REM sleep as opposed to the muscles. Why this exception from an evolutionary standpoint? We're gonna have to ask the Creator about that one. That's a really good question. But you know it probably falls somewhere between processing being able to process across the midline. Something needs to be happening across the midline in order for emotions to be managed, mitigated. For, for example, everybody know about what's what's that called? EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing technique. It basically people tap on the body on both sides of the body so that information is crossing the hemispheres, right. You're getting boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. When you're asleep, everything else is paralyzed. But your eyes have that back and forth movement and they're crossing the midline. When that's working well, we process the emotional content of the day when that's not working. Well. We carry it over to the next day. And if that keeps happening, we get depressed. And when you first start taking any depressants, one of the first things they do is they disrupt REM sleep, they stop REM sleep, they're like disruptors. And then REM sleep begins to come back and when it comes back, if it's working again and doing what it's supposed to be doing then the depression generally lifts and that's pretty. Pretty close. sociation there why? The eye movements per se, probably because during sleep, it's the only time we don't need to use them. You know, the other muscle that doesn't get paralyzed? Is your diaphragm. Right because we need to breathe. We need to breathe but there's something about this hemispheric cross that's important. We know that for instance, in dolphins, they sleep with one hemisphere at a time. So if they're on the right side, and they have the crossing over to I believe so let's say their right hemisphere, that part of the brains in the water. But the left fin or yeah and that fin op moving to keep them flowing in the water. But while and then after a while they flip over and the other side keeps them half awake and half asleep. So something about crossing the midline. That seems to be important. All right. So I Francoise I can't give you a better answer than that. But hopefully I'm gonna give an answer to Baris question about red light. So she annually this is the data from the article that Denise had sent me and you know, a number of people are reporting this but again, we're looking for that really hard data to see that you know, there is hard data that low light, red light, okay, if it's too intense, it will look too and so we don't want it to attend intense needs to be you know, lower than about 5050 Lux or lower. Which I by the way, I measured and the heat light is definitely low in an ad I use my little you know, you guys can get there's a free app. I think it's free or else you pay two bucks for it or something. light meter, you can actually check the light exposure you're getting and you'll see you'll see that indoor outdoors is an order of magnitude greater than any can get indoors. Unless you have a light box. But long story short, the red light exposure from the light is low Lux and it is enough to stimulate melatonin production according to the data that's already out there. Okay, and presumably that will help you fall asleep that will help you re realign your circadian rhythm after jetlag. Okay, if the shifting time zones. Again, I want to know more information about that to like which direction right because it's so much harder to re realign flying east and so what's the time course so that maybe it reduces the days it takes or the hours it takes to realign you know there's we still have to know all that information. But the full bodied red light so red light is long wavelength. And apparently there's a great but it's a long one two hour podcast by the human Lab talking about light both infrared red light blue light, you know, the whole the whole shebang but essentially the full body red light has really helpful benefits for reducing inflammation, as well as resetting your clocks and helping your melatonin. So there's a lot of interesting data coming out about it. So stay tuned. It has much less energy than anything that can cause cancer. So I would not have any concern about using that and having it having any negative effects. Now beyond you know, the infrared red light and the low Lux red light, I can't speak to but keep an eye on the data because more of it's going to be coming out how long prior to go into bed should one use red light. You can turn it on and go to bed. Most of the studies have used it for about an hour before bed light up at night but that time, I mean, look, the idea is that the more blue light we get after sunset, the less likely we're going to be able to fall asleep because we're suppressing melatonin. When you stop using the blue light, your melatonin can kick in again. Okay, so you know we say at least an hour before bedtime you should stop using blue light. So I would suggest at least an hour before bedtime. Go ahead and use your red light. You know, but the one that Denise is putting out is designed to be turned on when you go into bed. You can turn it on when you go to bed. It stays on for I think 14 minutes right and then it gradually drops off for the next 14 minutes let you fall asleep. And then if you wake up during the night, she's not paying me anything, I swear. But you know, again I've had minimal success myself with it because I sleep pretty well what can I tell you? I've already done all the right things to sleep so I think it does really help people who need support for sleep or have difficulty you know or are night owls right and are trying to get to bed earlier you know may help you turn your melatonin on sooner. Just like maybe exogenous melatonin may help you do that. But this has no potential side effects. So who do you think that think that if I would really take a 60 minute even nap in the afternoon that it would make up for equal time loss of sleep at night? It it certainly would be pretty close to fully making up for it. I can't speak to it being 100% but certainly it is better to nap during the day and make up sleep if you can't get it at night. So that goes without saying if regulate night you can't quite well you don't have enough hours or you're working certain blah blah blah, and you just can't get those hours in. Then the nap during the day is fine. You don't want the nap to be the reason you're not able to sleep at night though if you can help it okay. It is one of the you know people have done biphasic sleep and try phasic sleep and you know sleep around you know every 20 minutes out of an hour around the clock like the solo sailors around the world have done that. You cannot sustain that type of sleep but certainly you can wake up in the middle of the night be up for half an hour an hour you know do the mild technique and that'll be fine and if you want to make up you know if you're doing this at night to to increase lucid dreaming and all that then and you are up for quite a while you're doing it several times a night, then making it up for for during the day with an app that would be fine. I would see how you function. That's the bottom line. If everything works for you during the daytime and you're perfectly alert when you need to be and you can take a nap and then get up and be alert when you need to be done absolutely fine. Always use yourself as the barometer of is something working for you. Okay. And so this this is the last slide this is like I said this is from an aura ring.

And this person was showing a month of using the Hue light. Her total sleep time increased by 30 some odd minutes from seven and a half 725 to eight and eight minutes and eight hours and two minutes. Sleep efficiency really important. It makes the sleep more efficient, which means there are less wake ups. And as I was gonna say before, if you wake up during the night you can just hit the button and start it over again and go back to sleep and let the light do its thing so it's almost like being able to take some extra melatonin during the night without taking the melatonin and having all that potential side effect of grogginess in the morning and all of that because this is a very natural way of boosting your melatonin. So overall you can see these values and this is this is one of the uses for using the ring or one of the devices right. We talked about I think last month I did the sleep trackers. Look. I see you got your ringtone is good. If you got your ring it's helpful to see you know, if something isn't working for you, it'll show up here. If you're starting to get ill, it'll show up here. If you've been you know working it burning it at both ends, it will show up here. You may not need this to tell you you're not doing well. But if you have it it will definitely let you know something's coming down the pike and you're not doing too well and you maybe ought to back off or not exercise today. Take it easy, rebuild your resilience, and now they have all kinds of stuff. You know, it's great they have resilience monitor stress monitor stress and restoration throughout your 24 hour period or during the day. So it kind of helping you How does starting to get ill show up on on over your body temperature goes up. Your overnight temperature will will bump up when I had COVID Man, it was right on I'm gonna see if I could pull it up. And what you do is you go into we just got a firmware update. So so under readiness, you have all these values. There's one for body temperature. And you can see across time, by now it's pretty good. There was one day where when hi you can see that that line going up higher and that's my daily body temperature. And so that day I know what was going on and I was just really really pushing it. But for the most part that was the only day like that in two weeks. Right? Well it was good. The other thing you can do is look at the trends. So right around that day. I could tell I was really straining myself because there were a couple of days in which he was high and so I backed off and all was good. Back

where else do you get a chance to share your personal data with people and I expect we're going to see some stuff from Andrew pretty soon. Oh, okay. This is a good one. See you see those big bumps that in my daily. The trend jumped right up. And the day before that trend had started going up and then it jumped and I had a confirmed COVID-19 That's my little market down there

and this one wasn't a trend that wasn't that was just being ill. So you can see the peaks of that weren't as high but the trend certainly jumped up and it took me a while to get out of this one. It took me a while to because the trend is took me a while for it to come back down. Anyway. It's helpful to alert you something isn't doing well. By the time your body temperature is going up. It might be a little late. You may already have something or you may have already overdone it. So so many other values, your resilience, the total amount of beginning the amount of disturbance during your sleep. You put all these together and that gives you a good sense of how how you're doing overall he like looks so interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I, it's like I told the neat, isn't it showing it off now. Now she's really showing off. Okay. I heard you're gonna give a discount to everybody to their their I do use it every night. And I think I told the nice that I use it when I need to get up in the middle of the night, particularly if I'm writing down my dreams. I turn it on. It's my red light. You know, now I don't have to worry about scratching with that red light pen and then all the pens out or it's not an anchor. Now I've got a red light. I can see I could do my stuff, write it all down, close it put it back and not even have to turn it off and go back to sleep. You know? So anyway, cool stuff. All right, nice enough for now, but yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more of what what the red light is going to show us because it really makes sense. You know, it's pretty much the opposite of what the blue light does. Okay, so Myra has had her hand up for a while she's very patient. You didn't get enough sleep last night? Probably.

No, I actually did. I was wondering whether there's been a change in their algorithm for the readiness in their aura because mine has been unlikely. I mean, I never had it in the 90s and my readiness has not been that good. Is there a change in like the what they did for deep sleep and

as far as I know, the latest they did was they they took Yeah, I mean, and I still have some questions. About what they did was to their algorithms that they modified by the sleep studies that they compared it with in the US to generate it. They added AI to it. And what AI added to it was where is deep sleep supposed to be? Where is REM sleep supposed to be? And that improved their ability to detect sleep from a sleep study. So they did it. They first did it. They did it the other way. They took all the sleep studies and they generated an algorithm to use their ring data to prove the different sleep states and then they had somebody sleep with both they did a bunch of those and they matched pretty well. But there was still like 85% and that's generally what what sleep scores get. But to bump that up. To 85 to 90%. They actually then added this overlaying algorithm. Where are these? Is this more likely to be deep sleep or is it more likely to be a lighter sleep? Is this more likely to be REM sleep are more likely to be awake are more likely to be a lighter sleep and they found that improved and bumped another 578 percent in their comparisons with sleep studies. So the best

so I find that then if I am meditating, then it puts me them in it records like I'm sleeping for an hour or something when I feel like I'm completely good, you know, full you. So I'm still a little confused the way that it goes. But I was just wondering whether the way that they collect they had changed their their numbers.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's what that will really speak to because more likely when you're that inactive you know, during a deep meditation is going to put all the numbers together and say, Oh, she's probably asleep. And that's where it'll misfire right? But if they say that during sleep, more likely you are asleep. You're not you know, jumping around and meditating on top of your head or something, you're in bed, you're supine, or you're on one body position. So because they're using all that data, right, so if you're lying down on one side or another on your back or whatever, your body temperature has dropped your your activity level has dropped. All that data then is added in and saying more likely this is sleep. Versus when you're awake. Your body temperature is still up even though you're meditating, and your brain activity is slowing and your active activity level has reduced. You are probably still awake because you're meditating. But if you were lying down, you might actually nap you know right that's why we sit up and meditate. That's the whole reason why we sit up meditate. By the way. The Yogi's discovered this a long time ago, that if you let everybody lay down and they just go to sleep

well, but I've been trying to work because especially with online wallets is that if you do it in a session like one of the four poses and you master that a little bit like in a yoga nidra or maybe completely away then you you know you're preparing for that process of acidity or death in Yeah, yeah.

during deep sleep, you know, like, you know, looking into people or studying. Yeah, I don't think the ring is gonna be able to differentiate that. No, no,

I was just curious about because it's actually kind of addictive. You know, I just check in the morning immediately, like, whether kind of going to be so thank you brain whether

you always want to assess how you feel feel first, right? That is definitely the golden rule. Of all these devices. Assess how you feel first, and then be pleasantly surprised when you know, oh, wow, I slept even better than I thought, you know, you're just going to ignore it when it says you slept worse. What does it mean?

Thank you again.

You're welcome. Other questions? I see a couple more in the chat. That good how does how does sleep? Parents our sleep impact blood sugar fluctuations at night? I have a friend who just got postprandial in Lima Cuf hyperglycemia after hernia surgery. Well, your your there should not be blood sugar fluctuations during sleep. Okay. But if you have had an insult to the body in some way or there are studies that clearly show if you have sleep deprivation, particularly if it's chronic, over that's enough to mess with your glucose and your insulin response to glucose. You just get out of whack with it. Is this question from linear? Yeah. May you want to ask you want to add to that or Linnea can Are you there?

Oh, I'm here at her house. so I just it's good to know. It's good to know that, you know, that when she goes to sleep, she's not going to have this issue.

Because it's really scary for her and yeah, she probably you know, her sleep was probably totally disrupted for the surgery and you know, even during the recovery, they don't need your sleep. They keep taking your vitals, wake you up to give you a sleeping pill, that kind of thing. Right? So she she just needs to settle into her sleep. Try to get into a regular pattern as soon as possible. And don't chance on sleep. Get it you know let us off sleeping in the morning if he needs to let us let it take a nap during the day. Left asleep return and help our repair.

Thank you Dr.

You're quite welcome. And did he let me know how I can provide a discount to any night club member or just have them contact me? Yeah, I just contacted he said he liked calm if you're interested. She could tell you more you know, and figure out what works for you guys. And I'd be interested to hear you know, yay or nay if things work if you do get one what the what the data is showing. I know some of the data I saw for the idiopathic insomniacs wasn't as strong but that wouldn't surprise me that much just because you know, they're hardcore. And there's probably other stuff going on. It's not just the melatonin. Andrew, see you popped up?

Yeah, I've been here. Yeah. My big question is, why don't they call it a scheelite or evey light?

I think wouldn't be good for asleep. That's probably why they nixed that one. Denise you have any comments on that? I guess you didn't name it right. You would have called it

I inherited it comes from some kind of you know, low intensity healing whatever I can get into the anagram for it, whatever. I but I think of it as healing light healing, but they have some sciency words that have to do with a

Lucia thrown in a in there right. That would have really feel like that was a missed opportunity.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Name it. Okay.

I wanted to do I wanted to add I have found I have used that. Thank you. I'm a little bit like Ed, I fall asleep really quite soundly. But what I haven't tried. So thank you for bringing this up yet. Is every once in a while, you know, if I get up six hours after I go to sleep. Sometimes I'm in that zone or I'm not adenosine has been burned off or I can't quite fall back asleep. I mean, it works out great because I usually do the waking back to bed thing. And actually last night I had two weeks in a row last week and this week, I had a recursive false awakening where I had a lucid dream. I woke up. Oh wow, great. I thought it was going along. 20 minutes later I wake up and realize oh, my gosh, I just woke up to another dream. I love when that happens. Yeah, that's happened twice this weekend last week. And so that's a bit unusual. So that's kind of cool, but I had not thought about using that. You know to go up there and click it again. And that six hour mark and see if in fact they could release some extra melatonin and help me back on track. That's a really great idea. I hadn't thought of that. So I'm going to give a lot of

people are using it that way and many sleep doctors or sleep specialists are recommending it in that way also, yeah, it's different for everyone as is anything right so it's different for me. But I would wonder Andrew if you're noticing any difference in your deep sleep or your REM sleep like are the numbers changing if you start to use it consistently, are you having deeper sleep or not? And the other thing is, yeah, the other thing is McKeel clerk who you may know from lucid dreaming, he wrote one of the books, whatever love. So he started using it in November when we first launched it, and he actually started having lucid dreams without trying. So it has affected whatever that means to him. I can't speak to it. And we have noticed many people's commenting on their dreams, the level of their dreams, how much they're dreaming, and we haven't done any studies. This is all sorts of people giving us information.

Yeah, yeah, very cool. I will know this ring is relatively new for me as well. Yeah. The one the one question I do have for for Dr. Ed around that is I consistently have a red line, restlessness score in on my aura cycle, whatever sleep architecture graph, and I don't know if it's because of the you know, my puppy maybe turning in the bed or I mean how accurate what other factors could be going up because I feel pretty darn rested. Sometimes I get the scores and go it's this isn't completely resonant with the way I feel. So I'm curious if you have any comments around the restlessness part.

Yeah, you know, I mean, it could be you know, your, your dog you're petting your dog during sleep, you know, with with the ring hand

No. Small dog. Yeah, so I wouldn't think they're moving into bed would be that big of a movement for you, but it may cause you to move which, you know, you're not waking up but and that's okay to have some disturbance during sleep as long as you're not fully awake. That many times as well. Right?

Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I love these gadgets coming out. I mean, these things are pretty cool. So I'll try it definitely the the awakened back. Back Back to Bed thing six hours after I hadn't thought or trying to dance. I'll give it a pop that could really help very cool.

Yeah, interesting.

There's a great question here from Katie about candle light or its effect or two red lights.

Well candle light will disturb your sleep. So you know it is more of a an orangey light if you think about it, like one Lux. The way they actually came up with Lux was one Lux is the light of a candle one foot away from your eye. So a one Lux is a candle so it can go pretty much anywhere in your room isn't going to be doing much of anything. It's not going to keep you awake. It might, you know, maybe keep you a little lighter, but for the most part, it's not going to do much we're talking you know 10 To 3040 Lux before you even notice it so yeah, candle lights are really, really like the the like one Lux really?

Just don't take them over.

Yeah, no more. No more. No more infrared heat. Yeah,

more Watts and you bargained for Yes,

yes.

Great. Cool, Doctor. Yeah, what a great show. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love the questions. Love the thoroughness and the responses. It's always so great. One of my favorite. Okay,

great. All right. Well, clearly could be of interest and we will see you guys all next month. Unless you're coming to my class tomorrow night starts tomorrow night. Yeah, yeah.

Do they have information for that? Did you hang out for them for but you know what?

Yeah, it's my your optimal nature.com You can go on there and look and find my sleep management course. I forgot. About that. See, I didn't last month too. I forgot how to come on the next night. But it is tomorrow night. Next

time you do those? Let us know well in advance and we'll we'll definitely get out to the group to the nightclub as ASAP. Sure

we'll do. All right, everyone. Have a good one and see all next month.

Are you sending us a link for that for the class tomorrow? Or did we get it when we signed up? I

know you didn't get it yet. I will send them all out tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Sure. Yeah, if you go to my website, your optimal nature.com and go under sleep management. You'll see there. Cool. All right. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks, everyone. Especially you Dr. Edie. Thanks, Alyssa. So you guys are on the blog. ciaochao take care