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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, remember episode one of the podcast?
Do you remember episode one? I remember our imposter syndrome. And we were like, Could we get Julia Campbell to be the number one and first episode We Are For Good? And she said yes. And then evolves a beautiful friendship and we just fall in love with the human that she is. And she's back. So she's back today. And if you've been tracking with us, we've been unpacking this habits of an impactful fundraiser series, you know, over the last couple of weeks. And as we were kind of diving into the topics, you know, it started out fairly high level and we were like, we want to go deep into some of these areas. And storytelling is just one of those that we feel is such a heartbeat for our community. And we could not have a story telling conversation without bringing the queen of storytelling back. So gonna do a really quick intro for Julia because if you've spent any time in the We Are For Good community, you know, we are huge fans of everything that she does. But she is an incredible Digital Marketer. She is a writer. She is a communications professional. She is a host of nonprofit nation podcast. If you're not listening to that podcast, you need to put it into your queues subscribe, hit a review, because Julie is awesome. But she really is an author of just storytelling in this digital age, which she actually has a book for as well. But she's really teaching nonprofits how to use stories, to really embrace their mission and bring new people into their base. She's based out of Boston, and she is just this incredible global authority on digital storytelling around the world. So her passion is really to get nonprofits of all sizes to stop spinning their wheels on social media, and start getting real results using digital tools. And it begins with the story. So no more intro, JC come into the house, teach us all your ways, I got a bucket of popcorn, I'm here to learn.
Yay. I'm really thrilled to be back here. And I'm so honored to be the number one episode after how many episodes now. I mean, hundreds and hundreds. I was just so thrilled to be the first episode. So thanks for inviting me back.
That's what we're gonna do today, we're really gonna dive into the habits of an impactful storyteller. And I want to dispel a myth real quick. For anyone who's listening right now, this is not an episode for someone that has storytelling in their job description, because I think there are very few of those add in nonprofit storytelling is a responsibility of all of us, how we're listening, how we're recounting how we're doing this, ethically, how we're bringing dignity to the story. And I think Julia just does this so beautifully. And so want to kick this off Giulia with just how do we ask the right questions. And that has been the first question for all of this Friday habit series. But I can't imagine a more poignant questions to start with storytelling, what are the right questions that are helping us really trying to accomplish what we want to get out of this? So talk to us about the big picture, and maybe dispel some myths, if you have them.
The very first thing that fundraisers need to do is to spend a lot more time listening than they do asking questions, actually. So spend a lot of time doing the research on your organization, talking to program officers talking to board members talking to volunteers. Think of yourself like a journalist, and be absorbing this information. Also, think of yourself like a documentarian, like if you're making a documentary of your organization, and what it stands for, what are the interesting pieces that you want to pull out? What are the most relevant and timely and sort of urgent matters that you're dealing with? What is the issue that you're focused on? So really start thinking internally when you're trying to formulate these questions, do a lot of listening and a lot of reflection. The second piece is to be a lot more intentional than That reaction also be more proactive than reactive, and look for those places where you could potentially find a story. So there's a lot of groundwork and infrastructure building and trust building that goes into this before you even start asking the kinds of questions that you want to ask. I know we want to jump in. And we want to say, share your story and give us a testimonial. And here's a case study. And, you know, where did you come from? And how did you come to us, and we want to document all the things. But we have to build this infrastructure, so that we can really be strategic with our storytelling. So the second piece is to be intentional and to sit down and think where are we going to use this story? How are we going to use this story? Are we telling a story at our 50th Anniversary Gala, where we have the rapt attention of the room and we can share a longer video? Or are we telling it in an Instagram reel or a YouTube short? Are we going to a lunch with a major donor, and we have to tell a story off the cuff or off the top of our head, we have to tell a personal story one to one. So thinking about the ways in which you're telling the story and where you're telling the story is key. Some of the questions that you want to ask them, you want to first make sure that you have complete and utter buy in and that the person that is telling the story understands they have complete agency over the story. It's not the experience that defines them, they are a multitude of layers. This is not the only defining moment. And this is not this is not define their worth to the organization. So I think what we struggle with is, we're so focused, like when I worked in domestic violence, we're so focused on that particular incident, like what's the inciting incident that brought you to the shelter, and we lose the other details of the person, like, oh, maybe they played violin, or they have their master's degree, or they have three kids or they like to travel. So trying to get the other details around this person or these people. The story that you're telling to really flesh out that this person is a whole person, and this particular incident that brought them to your organization is not the definition of their entire life, and that they're going to go on and do fantastic things, hopefully great things after this. So really understanding that it's not so much about the organization, it's about the story that the person wants to tell. And it's about their future as well. So sort of what's the vision that you're creating?
Can we like stop and do a standing ovation here? I mean, holy kick, I mean, there's so many things that I like want to reply to. But I think how powerful you started out the gate with saying we're not listening enough. And I want to say you told us that on Episode One. And I love that because storytelling sounds active, but it's really this idea of first being a student of really just sitting at the feet and listening to people and understanding what the story is. And that nuance that you describe like, I never realized that until actually Becky taught me many years ago, like in the fundraising field to be like, how do we actually connect with people, it's those little nuances to know that she plays the violin to know she has two kids to know she was a normal day driving to work when this happened or whatever. It's like that gives you the context to be pulled in and to like understand and to relate and build empathy. So, so much there. Thank you for setting the tone. I mean, Becky's said at the gate that this isn't really an everybody's title, but at the same time, it's in everybody's job description, you know, of being able to sit down.
Well, fundraising is too.
So true. So I love the idea that equipping people even at lunch or even just at random encounters, that they'd be able to tell a story. What are some habits or actions that people could take on a regular basis, maybe daily, but maybe just like weekly, kind of in a cadence to become a better, impactful storyteller.
There are several that I practice and I try to instill in my clients. One is that constant, just jotting down ideas and taking screenshots and collecting examples. So a lot of us you know, we're not trained in marketing or copywriting. We're certainly not trained in storytelling, even though it's you know, a tale as old as time we've grown up with Pixar. We've grown up with Disney. We've grown up with all of these amazing stories around us to figure out what makes a great story is more difficult. So just take note of things around you that move you look at the news, read the newspaper, read a magazine, listen to podcasts, listen to audiobooks and get inspiration from the world around you and see what kind of story resonates with you and really hooks you and a great example that I have. Well I do this all the time. I'm always taking it samples of stories and I have a whole Google Drive of screenshots and emails that I've saved. And we were my son and I, we really love watching those little Pixar short love those. They're like under 10 minutes. I really recommend sitting and watching several of the Pixar shorts, they're under 10 minutes. The storytelling that they are they managed to convey is literally better than and I'm sorry, all the Star Wars prequels really bad. I know if we have some Star Wars prequel fans, sorry, George Lucas. But they are amazing what they can do in under 10 minutes. If you look at the character and the conflict, and there's an emotional attachment to the person, there's something that happens. And then there's some kind of resolution. So our storytelling is not going to be that perfect. But if we're constantly looking at the world, and learning from the stories that really resonate with us, the ones that we really like the ones that we enjoy, or the ones that make us think I'm thinking of stories, I went down a complete rabbit hole reading stories of Ukrainian refugees. And it really helps to contextualize the ward helps to contextualize the horror, it helps to contextualize something that is so just unfathomable to me in my lifetime. So thinking about the kinds of stories you consume every single day without even knowing about it, and sort of what can you pull from another habit is always to just be curious. And to never assume. So never assume that someone does not want to tell their story. Never assume a program officer is never going to want to work with you to share the story. Never assume you can't get the photograph, never assume your executive directors never gonna say yes. Just constantly be curious, asking questions, trying to explain your point of view. And I think sharing examples is a really good habit to get into getting example, sharing example, sharing stories at board meetings, sharing stories of donor events, sharing stories on staff calls, whether they're in person, or whether they're virtual, and just trying to bake storytelling into the daily culture is the most effective way to really transform the culture into one that sort of accepts and embraces it.
Okay, that was so brilliant storytelling is culture is something that could be truly transformational for an organization. I remember one time we had a Monday huddle at our former organization, and we would all get together and we would get around the huddle board. And we would look at all of our numbers from the previous week. And then we would share, you know, a story or two of something that happened in the last week. And I remember one time someone in our operations team, like came by to like, the fundraising side and said, thanks for sharing those stories with us. You know, we talk to people, but it's normally like your credit card is about to expire, or why haven't you paid your gala pledge. And it's like, it brings people back to the heart of why we do what we do. And then all of a sudden, those stories are not just stories that are told in a vacuum, individuals in your staff or your board, or your volunteers go out and reshare that, and then you see the ripple that's cast their story. And that's what I think is so smart about what you're saying to so I think this is really fantastic. And I want to move to the next question, which is, what are the relationships that matter? And I'm really interested to see what you say, are the relationships that we should prioritize when we're storytelling? What would you say?
Relationships with your coworkers are absolutely vital, and relationships with the people, obviously, that you are attempting to, you know, collect the stories from, but I don't think one can happen without the other. I also think relationships with your supervisor, if you are not your supervisor, or anyone that is in charge of the job responsibilities of someone that you're working with. So to me, building trust, that's absolutely everything you can't collect and craft stories, if you don't have full trust from the people you're working with and the people that you're also collecting stories from. So an example that I would give is when I was in the Peace Corps. I was served in the US Peace Corps after college. I was in very, very rural West Africa in Senegal, about 10 hours from the coast and a village that we learned French go to Senegal, but my village did not speak French. The doctor spoke French and the teacher spoke French. So my strategy was okay, I'm going to build relationships with those two people first because they're very respected. And if I can build relationships with them, they can sort of give me some insight on to how I can best do my mission of public health. And so for me, I went to the people that were respected, not necessarily the people that are in charge. Because as we know, those might not be the people that really get things done in the organization. So think about the people that are well respected, well liked, that are getting things done, the people that everyone else kind of goes to get their buy in, and also get their feedback. Like I said, the listening piece is so huge here, you're not going to tell them what you want to do. You know, I didn't go in and tell the doctor, I want to go to this public health campaign, I asked questions. What kind of public health crises are there? Like? Where do you think I could best be helpful? What are people struggling with? And then you go to other people in the village that are in your organization, in this example, in my village, that were very influential, like the midwife or some of the women's circles, and you start to understand what moves them what drives them, what motivates them. And if you make it about the incentive for this particular group, like what is in it for them, to share their story, or what is in it for the program officer who's so busy, and is in the field, and is trying to constantly do their work and do reports? What is their incentive to connect you with a story or to collect a story for you thinking about how you can frame it as well, this is for the greater good, this is to help us if not only raise money, because sometimes raising money is not the best incentive. How can we use these stories to shed light on this issue, this problem that we're solving, to sort of dispel myths and misconceptions about the people that we work with, to really empower and energize our clients, you know, and provide them with dignity. I think of an example of a client I work with in Boston Rosie's Place, they are a women's shelter. And they have a million different programs. They serve every single woman that walks through their door, no matter what no questions asked, and they don't get any government funding. So they can pretty much do whatever they want. They're all individually funded. They're phenomenal. And their motto is, every woman's story matters. You know, every person that comes to their door that is identifying as a woman is going to be helped and served and treated like royalty. And that's their motto. And those are the stories that they share. And you can just tell through the storytelling they do, that the people they serve really do feel like they have a voice they're being heard, they're being seen, and that them sharing their stories actually really helping others.
I mean, I feel like we've experienced some of that, too. You know, we're visiting with somebody who'd been on the podcast before just yesterday, and hearing them talk about the power of just getting the ability to tell their story, the confidence that it gave them, the ability that they could see themselves in a different light, when you know, you have someone kind of presenting you in the best possible light, like what that can do to empower and give clarity. Like it is a gift. And I think I often get on my soapbox to be like, This is why storytelling is mission like it's part of your mission is figuring out is how to do this correctly and well and create this uplift. So there is some there's lots of things in storytelling world that we need to also release. I mean, we're having a really powerful conversation of these really evolving, evolved ways to show up. But what are some do this not that, I mean, throw out some of the things you see that are just cringy that you're like, please stop doing this people who are storytelling and start doing this. And still I can't wait.
I'm not a fan of manipulative storytelling. I'm not a fan of the Sarah McLachlan arms of the angels, ASPCA showing dogs in cages or, you know, I was just at the gym this morning. And I saw an ad and I don't remember, I don't want to call it the nonprofit. But it was the stereotypical children with bloated bellies and the flies all around them. First of all, that's, you know, having lived in a country in Africa, I find that incredibly offensive, but also, I don't think it's effective. It's not effective. So we don't want to be we don't want to feel badly. So it might be effective. Initially, I know that ASPCA raised millions of dollars, you know, when it first happened, but now people are like, Oh my god, Where's the remote? Like, get it away from me? I can't watch this anymore. Because it makes us feel badly. It doesn't do anything to us. It doesn't inspire us. It doesn't also make us feel like we can actually do anything about it. It's sort of like okay, here's $10 Just make it go away. We don't feel like we're actually partners or investors in solving the problem. So the manipulative of the storytelling that manipulates us, I do think needs to stop. Now that doesn't mean it can't have an emotional aspect to it. It doesn't mean it can't pull heartstrings. This is where the art of storytelling, you know, it really is an art. How are you going to shed light on this very difficult issue, while still providing agency and dignity to the person that you're telling the story of. I mean, it really does take practice. But it's almost a you know it when you see it kind of thing. Like you know, when you are feeling badly, and you know, when someone's being exploited. So exploited of storytelling needs to stop. Also, boring storytelling.
Define.
A boring story to a boring story is Julia went to Rosie's Place. She stayed there for a night, and now she's better. Okay, that's a recounting of things that happened. There are no stakes, there's no conflict, there's no emotion, there are no details. So stories that I just hear, I see that all the time, where I'll get an email, and it will just be as simple like, this is what happened. And I like stories that start in the middle or that start with some kind of question, or things that hooked me in and make me want to read more. So we do have to be really creative now and cognizant that, especially if we're sharing on digital channels, social media email, you know, it's been true for years. But right now, people are used to that hook, they really need to be grabbed from the beginning of a sentence. And it doesn't have to be clickbait or manipulative. It can just be a simple descriptive detail, like Julia came to us. And she was wringing her hands or like she's bitten her nails down to a nub or something like that. And then you want to know, oh, why, or what's going on, and your brain automatically thinks that there's a conflict happening, and there's some kind of stakes, so stories without stakes, and then also reinventing the wheel on every channel, like, Why do have this fantastic story and your email newsletter, but I don't see it on your social media. I do audits of social media channels all day. And I can't even tell you how many times I audit, like an email newsletter. And then I go to look at the Facebook and Instagram and the LinkedIn. And it's not there. And I think you spent all this time collecting crafting, you know, honing this beautiful story, you've got a photo, maybe you have a little video, and you're not putting it everywhere, because I think people are afraid that they're going to overwhelm us. Well, you know, no, no one, people are going to see it on maybe one channel, maybe two. And if it's a great story, they're not going to care if they see it a couple of times, or three times. So I think this like holding back of our stories, and not being brave enough to share them everywhere and share them far and wide. Oh, another thing I want to do one more thing going on the being brave. Not okay, how can I put this, so not standing up for what we believe in truly, not really telling the story in the context of the greater ecosystem of the cause or the issue, making it about our organization. So not taking a stand on something like sexual violence, not taking a stand on something like food insecurity, not taking a stand on human rights and racial inequality, and sharing the story and just kind of making it about our organization, and not putting it in the context of the greater cause and the greater issue because we don't do things in a void. We don't, you know, we don't serve people. And hopefully, we're just going to, you know, keep serving them. Like we're hope we're hopefully pushing the needle on a problem that needs solving. So how can we educate people with our stories, and show them that this is a problem? This is happening in our community, this is happening in the world. I just think we're not. We don't get as provocative and we don't have as strong voices I think we could have.
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Julia Diane Campbell, I'm kidding, I don't know what your middle name is. I just did that for you what you just said there, Diane, I love that right there. I like want to create a pause in this conversation for what you just said, There. Okay, we got it, we got to like, put some measurement on this. And I have to tell you, we almost took this question out, which I think would have been short sighted on our part. But we want to talk about KPIs that matter, and those that don't. And I have to say how many people raise your hand, even look at KPIs on storytelling, because I would say many people don't. And I would love for you to break this down for us and tell us what we should be looking at.
Sure. So KPI, key performance indicator. For those of us that don't know, marketing, or the fundraising, it's all tied to your goals. So I'm actually working with a client right now on their urine campaign. And they created a fantastic storytelling video. And they're going to use it as a virtual zoom event with major donors, they're going to use it at several friend raising events that their boards are doing, and they're going to use it on. We're doing a social media ad, and we're doing some year end emails. So all of those have very different KPIs. So it depends where you're using it. So you know, for the virtual event, the KPI we're using is you know, how many people stay until the end of the virtual event, how many people donate? How many people are new donors, how many people came to us, because they heard about this event. So I think for you know, specific marketing KPIs, when you're doing it digitally, it can be a little bit easier, because you can actually track how many people opened the email, how many people donated how many people clicked on the social media ad. But if you're telling a story to a person, it's a little bit harder. So I would encourage people to collect anecdotal evidence and qualitative, qualitative metrics, as well as quantitative. So what I used to do when I was a development director, I would just collect the number of thank you notes I received, or the number of conversations I had with a board member that said, Wow, that story you shared at the meeting was fantastic. So I would just collect those. And you can get a view of the sentiment over time. But with digital you, it depends on your goal, is it fundraising, maybe it's advocacy, maybe it's awareness, maybe you're trying to get people to sign a petition, you're trying to get people to sign up for text message alerts. So just look at maybe the top three things that will help you determine success, maybe it's a standing ovation at your Gala, that's a great KPI. If you get a standing ovation at your Gala, when someone shares their story, or even just a little breakfast event that you're having, if people are crying in the room, if there's an emotional response, take all of that into account. So it really does depend on what you're trying to accomplish. And I want you to look at KPIs as a way that you can know success. Like if you measure this, you will know that you've succeeded, and then you'll be able to iterate and tweak and improve for the next time.
I love it. And I think you know, one of our mantras is to try stuff is like one of our favorite things to try. And I think from having a podcast that's had 300 Plus episodes, we always have a good time on these conversations. We don't hide that. But there's days that I'm like, I don't know if that's going to reach people as much or this topic and then B meet the moment. And it's always the conversations that you don't think I will get a DM that's like that literally changed my trajectory of my life.
Me too. Me too.
Those are the best.
And I just love that. And it speaks to that, like you your interpretation is one perspective. And you are talking to lots of people that have a whole different reality that they're facing at the moment. And so you want to try things and figure out what lands and that anecdotal could, you know, is the only way that that would ever rise to the surface. It's not going to be how many times it was shared.
Yeah, I want to share a book that I am reading right now. It's Vanessa bonds, B, O, H and S. Actually, I'm going to try to get her on my podcast. She's phenomenal. It's called you have more influence than you think, how we underestimate our power of persuasion and why it matters. And I really think that speaks to exactly what you were just saying, Jon, but also it speaks. Every nonprofit should read it. Because it talks about how our daily life even just honking your horn at an intersection can like ruin someone's day like a talk. It talks about how we we have more influence in small ways and in big ways than we think it's a really great book.
Okay, we're totally linking that in the shownotes. And I hope you get it on the podcast because I want to tune into that conversation. Yeah, no kidding. So I mean, I feel like we'd be remiss not to ask you, like, share a story that stopped you in your tracks lately, one of them that just kind of, I don't know, cut through the noise because you sit in this position where you hear people telling their missions talking about their stories all the time. Or maybe it's one of your own personal journey that you want to share today.
I am trying to think of the many emails that I received because I do, I'm on a lot of email lists, I always tend to save emails from a client I used to work with, I know we've talked about them before. They're called plumber, youth promise and our foster care agency in Salem, Massachusetts, they serve, they used to be called plumber Home for Boys. They serve a wide variety of clients. And there, they have a double pronged mission, obviously to help the children in their care find forever homes, but they also want to promote the positivity of foster care and like dispel myths around what it's like to have a foster kid or what it's like to have, you know, be in the foster care system. So I think that's so powerful, because I haven't seen a lot of foster care agencies talking about that. And they sent an email out, that was a story of a family that took in a teen, a teen in foster care, and the boy was 16. And obviously, you know, I mean, obviously see, that's, again, a myth, he was very troubled, and he was getting in trouble at school a lot. And just their journey of not only how, you know, they didn't think they could save him, they wanted to help him. But how he really changed their perspective. And it wasn't a perfect story. It's not a perfect story with a little bow tied up at the end. And I don't think it has to be. And I'm actually really interested because they're going to do like a three part series on this family. So I thought it was a really great way to be like, okay, the stories are always happening like this is, you know, foster care. It's not like a one and done like these, you know, these children are in foster care their whole life until they turn 18. So, or until they get adopted. So what happens with this family? What happens with this boy, you know, what's going to happen in the future? And then how, you know, what are the implications, and the way they wrapped it up was, you know, if you want to learn more about fostering a teen, this couple is going to be doing like a an AMA, like an Ask Me Anything on Zoom. And I thought that was so fantastic, as you've already read their story, know a little bit about them. And then they're brave enough to do like an Ask Me Anything on Zoom. So that really stuck with me, I had never seen anything like that in the space before I'd seen like executive directors doing it. I'd seen development directors kind of doing this. But I thought it was really powerful way to say, nobody's perfect. We all have questions. And you know, we're just going to try to do our best. And we're just going to try to make our little corner of the world, you know, a better place.
So okay, love that example, for so many reasons. But mostly because what you just said, right, there was not a perfect story, as you've mentioned. And I think we get so stuck on the hamster wheel that we think it has to have this happy ending and it has to be beautifully vetted and perfectly positioned. And that's not the stories that stick, you know, those are not the stickiness in stories. And I go back to what you said about the standing ovation. And I think if you have a story, a real a an email, you know, something a quote or a photo that has gets a lot of attention, stick a pin in it and come back to it. That is an indicator that we want a follow up on that story. People want to root for that individual. And I think those are easy storytelling nuggets to grab and to your earlier point, please syndicate the heck out of this. You know, even if it's a story at your Gala, use that video again, take the script and pull some quotes out and make graphics for them, you know, for your Instagram or put something in your email, put it in your annual report that these stories need to be given life and wings beyond the singular use that we give them. And that is how people get connected to our mission long term is because we're not saturating the market. We're just sharing what we know and asking people to come in so we got to wrap this up Julia, which makes me a little sad and we got to wrap it up by taking care of ourselves and you are one of these allies in this mental health work that we are trying so hard to uplift in the sector and I Want to ask you? How can someone who is in this space, whether they're working on a story or adding it to the plate with everything else they have going on? How can they take care of themselves in this work? I mean, do you have a mental health habit? What's some sustainability and support tips you can give everybody?
I thought a lot about this question. Because I operate from such a state of privilege. You know, I work from home, I have a spouse who is fully employed, I have two healthy kids, no disabilities, no illnesses. So when I hear this question, I always hear it on podcast, I think I just have to explain that first. Because, you know, my, my wellness journey, I'm, I'm not disabled, I have healthy children. And I, you know, I'm not wondering where my next meal is gonna come from. So I do have that the privilege. So I think, for me, it looks different every day, I'm a big fan of exercise, you know, is really boring. But for me what what my favorite part of the day, and I can't do it every day, is sitting down and playing Legos with my son. So I know if I've had a really hard day, or if things are really stressful, or if they're not going the way they've planned or you know, I have a teenage daughter, and maybe we got in a fight or something has happened. I do find that even just 10 minutes of telling him, okay, let's sit down, let's make something, let's build something. And just focusing on that and focusing all my attention and turning off my phone is also a big one, focusing on him. And my other thing, I'm a huge advocate of sleep. I am just a gigantic advocate of sleep is not perfect. But I really do try to get at least seven, eight hours of sleep every night. And that's just something that I think it's like non negotiable, like no matter what's going on, I'm like, Okay, no, I need to go to bed, everyone needs to go to bed, if their child is sick, that's different. But that's something that I really dropped boundaries around. So I would say those two things are.
So good. And we're such a Lego family over here. Like it's a very sensory. For me, I love to go upstairs and get lost in that. So let's connect everybody to all the ways that you show up online because we love following along your journey. But point is to you know, where people can sign up for your list and find the podcast and your book and all the things oh my gosh, you have so many things.
I do have a lot of things. So it's JC social marketing.com and you can find pretty much information on how to contact me how to get on my list there. And the podcast is called nonprofit nation you just look it up Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell. Those are kind of my my two favorite ways to get in touch with me and I have a blog and information on my books is also on my website.
Thank you, my friend for coming back bringing down the we'll forget house again with all your powerful nuggets. Thanks for reminding us about the power of long form content, micro moments and making sure we bake dignity and to everything that we do. We just adore you.
Thank you so much. I adore you to love your podcast and love to see all of your success. Thanks.
Thanks, my friend.
Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics? Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom
