Hey, everyone, today we are joined by Ericka Andersen on the podcast. I'm so excited, because I was telling Ericka, actually, before we hit record, that the timing of our conversation is perfect, because I literally just got off my interview with a freelance writer at Business Insider, and then Ericka just landed a pitch of hers at Business Insider and will be writing an article for them soon. So it ties in perfectly with this conversation of how you can be paid to write for major publications. So Ericka, welcome to our show.
I'm so excited to be here. Ellen. I listen to every episode, so it's an honor.
Oh, that means the world to me. Thank you so much. There's nothing better than having a loyal listener on our show, because then you you get our community and what we're here to talk about, and actually, this topic, Ericka, I was super excited when I saw this come through my inbox, because it is a topic we have never covered on the show before. You know, we've had publicity focused interviews, but never one from the other side of being the actual writer, rather than the person being profiled or interviewed. So anyways, Ericka, you are a freelance writer.
You've been published in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post Good Housekeeping, New York Post Newsweek and more. And you're also a contributing writer for Christianity today, and a published author of two traditional books as well. I wanted to actually start off by asking a more technical question, because I'm going to operate under the assumption that our listeners may not be familiar with this world. What is the difference between a freelance writer and a contributing writer? As you distinguish for, you know, certain publications that you write for.
Well, they sort of overlap. So as a freelance writer, I consider myself just sort of, I'm all over the place. I can pitch in Article idea anywhere to any magazine or any publication I want at any time. And you know, see if it lands with Christianity today. As a contributing writer, I am sort of on a rolling basis with them, where they come to me when they have needs, and they, you know, ask me if I can do a story, or it's just sort of like more of a relationship there, where I know I'm going to be writing for them sort of consistently, and I don't have to do the big, grand pitch like I do other places, because we have that prior relationship.
Got it Okay. Thank you for explaining that. I myself wasn't sure if that was the distinction, but I'm really glad you cleared that up for us. I also wanted to as just one more piece of context before we get into the nitty gritty of how others can do this. Can you define for us what the difference is between earned media and paid media? Because I think this is a point of confusion for a lot of people. You know, we often read articles and publications, and if you're not super familiar with the media world or journalism world, it can be easy to confuse a sponsored post, let's say, with, you know, earned media. So could you just share with us what the difference is?
Yeah. So a sponsored post, and you might see these in all kinds of different magazines and publications where it very clearly does say sponsored posts. But if you're not paying much attention, you may not recognize that, but they typically cost quite a bit of money. I don't actually know how much it costs. Probably depends on the you know, how big the publication is, but people pay a lot of good money to have, you know, sort of articles were written about their companies, their businesses, their industries, to be featured in these publications, obviously, to get people to go back to their websites and get their brand some love.
And earned media is essentially media that's written about you, or in this case, you write about yourself, that you don't pay for, and in fact, you can actually get paid for which is awesome. So it's like a total it's a total flip, and it is just really awesome, because there are so many benefits to, number one, you don't have to pay for it. But number two, you really can sort of, you know, drive the train on the messaging and direct people back to your website, your brand, your lead magnet, whatever it may be. And so one you pay for, one you don't.
I was going to say it's like an Uno reverse, like you. You get the best of all worlds in this case, right? I was wondering, actually, you know, I mentioned at the beginning that you're a published author. You have two traditionally published books. Were you already a writer before starting this path, or was the book actually kind of a byproduct of starting to write for publications?
Yeah, so I've always loved writing, and it's been a part of my life, and I've worked professionally. I guess my cubicle job would have been working in communications at various nonprofits, think tanks, things like that. And the book, for me, that's, that's really a whole other side story on how that came to be. It was just a whole, a whole really cool story where I was able to publish this book traditionally. But it really was the jumping up off point for me, because when you publish a book, of course, publicity is huge, and one of the most.
Powerful things you can do for publishing a book in publicity is to write articles and guest posts and get your name out there and talk about that topic in places where the audience is bigger and where eyeballs are going to get to see your message and your name in your book. And so I had to do some of that for book publicity. And I would do anything from, you know, the smallest blogs, just because, you know, when you're publishing a book, you're just like, I will literally do anything for people to know that this book exists. But as I started doing that more and more, I realized, wow, I really like this, and gosh, I'm actually getting some cool opportunities.
Now, at first it was, you know, not the big stuff. I wasn't getting the New York Times right off the bat, you know, but I started realizing, Oh, wow, like anybody can actually get published. I'm not special. I am not like, you know, the Secretary of State, or really, somebody important in government. I'm not a celebrity. But I realized it was all about the idea. And if you could pitch an idea that was appealing to an editor, that they thought the readers would want, that would fulfill a need that they had, then you could get published, and it didn't matter who you were. And so I started basically practicing and just doing it all the time.
And once I was able to land a couple of these things, I started wanting to tell everyone about it. I was like, did you know that, like, you could actually get published in The Wall Street Journal? Or people would tell me their ideas, and I'm like, let's talk about this. Let's strategize this. And most people were like, Yeah, I don't even want to do that. But, you know, for the people that were interested, you know, I was just all out, and that's what ended up leading me to start my business.
That's amazing. And I totally agree with you that, you know, being in a writer's position, it's not necessarily. The beauty is that, I mean, depending on what type of articles you write, you don't even have to necessarily be the focal point or the expert voice in said article, right? So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about what that process actually looks like for someone listening who's like, Oh, I think I could maybe try my hand at this. How do they go about, you know, getting their first pitch out there. How do they grab an editor's attention? Or, know, even who to pitch their story idea to?
Yeah, I mean, it can be very overwhelming when you walk into it, because you're like, What do I even do with this? Right? And so one thing I created is sort of like a little 10 step guide that you can get on my website@pitchinpublish.co, it just is like a pop up and you can get that sort of written out. But to tell you here on the podcast, essentially, think about where would you like to be published. Think about your audience, and where are they reading things.
What do you enjoy reading? And so you would just kind of start there and start with a little investigation on that website, in that magazine, whatever it may be, figure out what are the sections, and decide, does my industry or my idea fit into some of these sections? And usually you can find one. I mean, most magazines sort of run the gamut. There's a span of different sections, culture, lifestyle, health and wellness, beauty and fashion, all of that, depending on where you land. And start to get an idea of the kinds of articles that they run.
What do they like to do? Some magazines have a lot of listicle style pieces, and that's a really good sort of break in opportunity. But essentially, just get familiarize yourself with the places that you want to publish. That's how you would start. And then you do need to sort of know the pitch structure, which is sort of like where I come in, where I'm like, download this guide so you know exactly how to write it. But once you sort of know the basic structure of this is how you pitch someone, an editor at a publication which is different than TV, which is different than radio, it's very specific to magazines and newspapers.
Then once you have that sort of formula and template in place, you can sort of fill in the blank with your idea and what all the details that you need to put into that pitch and send it off. And the one the biggest mistake that people make when they're starting is they will Google something like, get published in the New York Times, and then you come to a link that says, Submit opinion pieces to submissions@newyorktimes.com which that's sort of the filter most places you go, they will tell you that, right?
But that's really they're just trying to filter through, like all the you know, barrage of pitches. They're gonna get people who really know what they're doing are going to figure out who is the editor of the section that you want to publish in, and find their name, locate their email, which they're easy strategies for that, and you send it directly to them. And it doesn't matter if you don't know them. It doesn't matter if you have any connections with them. It could be a very cold pitch. They're used to this all the time, but you just email them like they are somebody that you do know, like, Hi, Ellen, I have a pitch for you.
And then you don't do the niceties. You don't spend a lot of time telling them how much you love their work. You just kind of get into it because it's not about that, and it's not about who you are. It's really about your idea. Is your idea good? Does it fit them? If so, they're going to be interested. So you kind of strip it bare of like all the normal things you might put in a regular email and. Send it on. So that's the that's the simple kind of explanation. Of course, there's more details that go into that, but it can be that simple.
No, thank you for walking us through that process, and I'm glad that it's so simple, because I think sometimes people over complicate what it actually looks like to get a story idea out there. And it was interesting hearing you describe, stripping the email, the niceties and making sure that you just get to the core of the pitch, and making sure that's really strong and compelling.
Because on a obviously much smaller scale, I can actually relate to that both myself and our Podcast Producer, we receive, you know, hundreds of pitches a month, and we're not the, you know, we're not the New York Times, but we still receive a high volume of pitches and when, even when we're evaluating what guests to bring on our podcast, we're looking at the strength of the case study they're pitching, and seeing, do they even understand the format of our show? Right? We get people pitching all the time, all types of episodes or interviews that have nothing to do with the case study format of our podcast.
And so I think doing your research, and the fact that you're emphasizing that, like getting familiarized, like you said, with with the nature of what type of content a certain publication writes about, is so important, I would love if you would be willing to share what is your go to place to locate the actual email of the editor. You said, there's multiple tools out there. Is there one in particular that works really well for you?
Well, it kind of depends, because it just depends on the person in publication. There are editors that, if you find them on Twitter or X, they have their emails just sitting in their bio, pitch me, and those are the best, because you're like, awesome. That was easy, and they want my pitch so I, like, don't feel weird about it. That's not always the case. Sometimes people keep it really cryptic. I don't know why they do that, but the first way I would do it is search the masthead. So I would like Google masthead, plus whatever the publication is on Google, and usually that will pop it up, especially if it's a larger publication, and you can kind of sift through and see who is the name of that person. Now that won't have their email, but you can at least get start with their name.
And then, generally speaking, most of these publications, like the New York Times, Washington Post, all of that, they have an email structure that is used for all of their people. So it's usually either first initial, last name at, you know, NY times.com or first name dot last name at NY times.com something like that. And you can usually find that somewhere, and then whatever that structure is that you can find, you can just apply that to the name that you found. But another great website is called hunter.io and that will help you find the structures for the different publications.
And then once you have the structure, it's just a matter of plugging it in. The only time it doesn't work is if someone has, like, a strange name or, like, it's like a, you know, John Smith, and there's like, 45 of those, and they have to change it, and so then it's a mystery. Usually you don't run into that problem though.
No, that's super helpful. I've heard of hunter.io I've used it in a different use case, for finding brand contacts, actually, for, like, brand partnerships and sponsorship. But very, very similar idea there. Do you remember your very first pitch that you ever made and actually had accepted?
Gosh, that is, I definitely had some smaller ones that I don't really remember. But the biggest, big, big pitch that I ever first landed was at the Wall Street Journal, and that was, I mean, I love this story that I tell because, you know, I had gotten the contact information of this person at the Wall Street Journal at this specific section, and I had, you know, spent all this time on this pitch I probably, was probably way too long.
And he initially wrote me back and basically told me no. And then he said he gave me, like, a little bit of feedback, which, by the way, if an editor gives you any feedback, that is like golden information. So I was excited. And he said, So I mean, if you want to try it again, you can, which that's also not something that you see a ton. So I was like, Well, gosh darn it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try it again. So I took his information and I just really put my all into this, this pitch, I sent it back, and ultimately he was like, wow, that's a lot better. And then he accepted it, and so it was published, and I was my first major piece, and then, like, soon after that, I was then published in the New York Times and The Washington Post.
And that's when I sort of think I I sort of got it. Then I was like, Okay, I'm getting how this works, like, I'm getting the elements that need to be there. And I do want to mention one thing, which is, if you are looking to pitch something, you need to ask yourself, these are like two. Two of the very important questions is, you know, why now?
Why is this relevant now and in this time in history and culture and space, and then why you so that doesn't mean that you have to be an expert. Doesn't mean you have to be a doctor to write about something related to healthcare, but it does mean you need to have some kind of proximity, some kind of potential connection, and if you're not the expert, you can easily bring in someone who is as your source, and then that can be enough as well.
So the why me portion doesn't have to be as difficult as you think, but really. It's the why now and why does it matter to the readers that you should be able to answer? And the other thing I would say I see people struggle with the most is that they're not fully clear on what exactly they want to write. So if you can't write your idea in basically a one sentence thesis, then you need to be able to do that. Because if you're not clear, then the editor's not gonna be clear and it's not gonna go anywhere. So I recommend you, know, talking it out with yourself and making sure that you can very clearly state in one sentence what you want to write about.
I'm so glad you brought this piece up, because I was actually as a follow up question. Going to ask you, if you remember, what was your one sentence thesis or pitch that the second one that you sent to this wall street journal editor that got accepted.
I going to remember that off the top of my head, but, I mean, I think it's really a matter of, like, bringing in, like, I always bring in a concrete piece of data that's really important for me. I think that sort of differentiates me sometimes from others, in that I'm very reliant on, on sort of the journalism, reporting side of things. It doesn't mean you have to be a journalist, but data is your friend, and it is so powerful.
When it comes to convincing an editor of the relevance of your story, the importance to a group of people, and data is always fresh. That's the other thing is you always need a hook for your story. Like, what's the hook? The thing that's going to draw people in? And there is fresh data coming out all the time in all the industries. And so you can use that so much to your advantage to pitch stories, even if you're not going to just be focused on the data, but like, that's the thing that sort of grounds your idea in context.
And so I like to bring that in in the thesis, if I can, because it really sort of cements what I'm trying to say in a way that they can wrap their brain around.
excellent tip. And chances are, if the data is out there, it means it's some it's a point of interest, right, that people are already talking about or studying. And I can actually echo exactly what you what you shared, Erica, one of the Now, granted, I wasn't necessarily the writer of this article. So it was a little bit different. You know, I was trying to get pitched to be featured or interviewed, but same idea. There was a critical data point that came out. I believe it was early 2021, in Oregon, about the state of our job economy, and due to covid, you know, a certain percentage of Oregonians had lost their jobs in the last month.
And at the same time, our company had hired on two new full time employees, and so it was kind of this contrast. And I thought, ooh, if I can anchor to this data point around job loss and show how we're doing it differently as a small business and creating jobs in a time where jobs are being lost, then I think that makes for a really interesting story. And that story did get picked up. So I love that you brought that piece into it. I realized also that I was asking you way far back for for a storyline. Do you maybe off the top of your head in more recent memory, do you have any story one liners that you could share? I think it would just be helpful for our listeners to be able to wrap their minds around like, what's an example of a story that has been accepted and gotten published?
So this is a pitch that I sent into the Wall Street Journal. Street Journal. And here is my thesis sentence. I'm proposing a piece that would address a growing but often overlooked crisis, the deteriorating mental health of American women and how alcohol contributes to it. So that's like the sentence, right? And really powerful. Something else that I meant to mention is always think in headlines.
So what is the headline that you envision on the piece that you want to write? And a lot of times, if you go to that publication and you look at the headlines that they have, you can get an idea of the way they like to approach things. So I like to write a headline or two or three even that mimic the way that they write their headlines, because that helps you get into their heads in terms of how they're thinking, how they frame things, and it might even help you write a more solid, crisp pitch for them, specifically so for my potential headline for the article I just mentioned, and I put this in the pitch. I usually put one headline suggestion in the pitch, and it was this a silent crisis, how sobriety and faith can help the female anxiety epidemic.
So that's, you know, that's my personal approach to this topic. But think of it this way. You want to spoon feed the editors. You want to make this as easy as possible for them to say yes. So you want to give them a headline idea. You want to help them envision your piece in their magazine. So that might be going into their section and finding a somewhat similar piece and saying, it seems like it would fit well with this type of piece. I really loved this piece.
So it's like, if you can, like, sort of do that mental gymnastics for them, and they can already see, like, yep, that would definitely work. Like, get them to that point with what you send, so that they're not having to do that mental work themselves. And that is, you know, you're gonna be two steps closer if you do that.
That's amazing. There's so many parallels, actually, as I'm hearing you talk and teach on this, between pitching for traditional media and even new media, like podcasts. Right? The easier you can make it for someone to envision interviewing you like by, you know, proposing suggested questions, for example, like we are doing here today, you submitted some great questions that I could ask you prior to this interview, and it made it so much easier for me to be able to come on board and feel confident in asking you about this topic that I'm not as familiar with.
So anyways, I love that thesis. Thank you for sharing that and just tying it back to what you said earlier about trying to really highlight the why. Now I can see why that pitch was so attractive to the editor, because the sobriety movement is so big right now. I think in our culture, we're really seeing this big swing and people being interested and non alcoholic options, and so kind of tying that in with this overall cultural movement, the timing of it, at least, I think, is so, so smart on your end. So thank you immensely.
I was just gonna say for that, um, that piece on the why me is, um, I've been sober for four years, and so, like this is, I'm so interested in the data side of thing, but then I also bringing your personal story into it. Some people are reluctant to do that, and it, you know, depends on your comfort level, but your personal story is, is one of the most powerful things that you have with this writing. So yes, you're going to write about your industry, but if you have that personal connection like that makes your pitch very strong. And so I'm I'm no stranger to like spilling my guts on the internet, and that's what I do. And so it's fine. I've done this before, but just keep that in mind when you are sending in pitches like if you can make it personal, that's that's part of the uniqueness of your pitch.
Hmm, love that. Do you find that most of the pitches that you get accepted or that you've written so far are more personal anecdote driven or narrative driven, or are most of your story ideas more centered around interviewing expert sources?
Mine? Mine tend to be personal, but again, I make it. I'm a very journalistic writer, so whatever I'm writing, I it's never like pure opinion or anything like that. Like, I rely on interviewing experts. I rely on data. You don't always have to interview experts, like in real time, like, you can take quotes from other places and use that as your data, but I find that everything, everything you write, is always stronger when it's rooted in the journalism side.
Just sort of like reporting in a way, but you sort of soften the reporting with the personal stories and the details and the writing. And I also will say, for those that are listening, because I know that not everyone that listens to your podcast is a writer, and you do not have to be the world's best writer to make this work for you. I'm certainly not the world's best writer. Let's put it that way, because and editors will tell you this number one, they're not scared to publish first time. If you've never published before, it does not matter.
The New York Times will publish you if they like your idea. It's more about the idea and the angle than what a great writer you are. And if you have a story, and if you have something different and unique to say, like, that's why they have editors, they're going to work with you on that. Now, it doesn't hurt if you like to write and you're good at it, but please don't exclude yourself if you don't feel like you're a natural writer, because this is, this is about ideas, and this is about, you know, something far bigger than just writing sentences. And so I think, really, everyone has the opportunity to utilize this for their business or their brand or whatever.
Thank you. That's so encouraging. If you feel comfortable sharing Erica, you know, financial transparency is a huge anchor of our show. As a longtime listener, what is the average payout one can expect for an article? I imagine, obviously, it varies greatly, depending on the publication and perhaps how how experienced you are. But if, even if you can share a range or maybe a recent payout that would be helpful for additional context.
Yeah. So it is all across the board, dependent on the publication, everywhere from like, you know, a smaller place and maybe 100 bucks to, you know, I think the most I've been paid is, like, $2,000 for, like, a longer piece in print. But the reality is, for me and for for people listening as well, is that there's a much bigger value than the money value when you're publishing, especially in a huge place like, you know, the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, because of, obviously, reputation, visibility, networking connections.
You obviously, you can take that little logo, put it on your website, you can use it to get speaking gigs, book gigs. My third book, I just am signing for my third book, and it is related to sobriety, and I first published a big piece on that in the New York Times two years ago, and I think that was very helpful. And being able to put that in my book proposal be like, Look, I have access to this. Like I can talk about this and get the word out about this.
And so writing is not the most lucrative profession, let's put it that way, but it is a tool and a stepping stone towards bringing the right people in. Here's another really great example, real quick, I had written another piece way back about. A particular policy topic that was in government, and I just wrote it because I was, like, I had an idea, and I pitched the idea and I wrote about it. Well, after that article came out, I was contacted by actually, several different people in that industry that were just like, so who are you?
And like, what are you doing? And so, long story short, I ended up acquiring one of my most like, lucrative and long term freelance clients that I write like copy for them. You know, it's not, it's not like your creative style writing, but it brought me to new potential clients on that side of things, and as a freelance writer myself, like as my full time income, putting it all together, I made the most I've ever made last year, which is over 150k and I mean, it's truly like crazy to me that I am able to do that because I never thought that was possible. And now I'm just like, I can't ever go back to a normal job, because I could never make this much, and there's just so many limits. And so I'm here to stay.
I love that that is so inspiring. And what also I think is so incredible, is you've helped over 150 writers do exactly what you do through your signature course, brag worthy bylines get paid and published. And I know that there's, I'm sure, a myriad of wins that have happened for your students as well, where they've been able to to your point, not only get paid for the actual article, but actually leverage it as a stepping stone or a way to open a door to a new opportunity. Does anything come to mind from your students' wins recently that you would like to celebrate here?
Yeah, absolutely. So. Two of my favorite ones are, I had two different students that were able to sort of use what they learned and take that and they actually ended up getting regular column gigs at different places in their niches. Like one of my students was a she's a therapist, and she ended up getting, like a regular column in Psychology Today. And then another student, she is a homeschooling mom, and she was able to get a column in like a parenting publication.
And I just love that, because I love the consistency of that, and also just, you know, again, that visibility and reputation piece of it. But I've also had students landed in the Wall Street Journal. I've had students landing in a Business Insider, like we were talking about earlier, Washington Post and and then others I've worked with to start, help them start sub stacks that are sort of another tool in their sort of business building. I love substack. I could talk about that all day too. I have one of those. And so it's really just cool to see those wins come in.
Like, I'll just get emails randomly. That's like, I got one, you know, whatever. And it's just almost more exciting to me when that happens for them than it is for me, because I just, like, I empowered them to do that, and I showed them how to do that, and it can lead to so many more opportunities. And I know a lot of my students really have book aspirations, and so I love to sort of handhold with them, too. And sometimes I will, you know, beyond the course that I have, like we will work together one on ones for on book proposals and things like that. So it's sort of a whole world of writing over here that is incredible.
I am literally, as you're speaking, thinking to myself, I should buy this course for my husband. He's actually an excellent writer and has always had interest in, you know, very niche topics, primarily in sports or history. And I'm thinking, wow, this could be a really great way for him to get into that, that realm of becoming a paid writer.
And so anyways, all of the links that Ericka mentioned today, like the resource, the 10 steps for getting your first pitch out, and also her own substack, will be in the show notes. Erica, I wanted to end our conversation on a hot take, if you'll, if you'll humor me. Obviously, with media, there's two sides. You can either pitch yourself to be the person being interviewed. That's the side that I traditionally am more familiar with, or your side right where you're getting paid to write the article and you're actually the writer.
From your observation. Have you found there to be any, I guess, substantial benefits on the side of writing versus just being the person interviewed or featured, like, if someone were to sit in front of you, say, if I'm going to spend time pitching myself to get into media, why should I pitch myself to be on the writer side versus being the person who's being interviewed? Any any thoughts that you have there surrounding the benefits, whether it's SEO credibility, backlinks or something even beyond that.
Yeah. I mean, I definitely think both are valuable, for sure. And I use, actually, I was going to mention earlier, I use the website Qwoted sometimes, qwoted when I'm looking for sources for pieces I'm writing. It's really awesome if you need that. But that being said, I do think ultimately there's more value in writing your own pieces, simply because, if you are quoted as a source, fine, you get mentioned, you get like a sentence, and it's like, said, So and so XYZ, as the writer of the article, usually you number one, you write the whole thing right your your byline is at the very top, at the end where the beginning. It depends on the publication.
Usually you have the opportunity to link your own website or. Whatever you want in your byline. So it's like with the New York Times, I was able to, I know, I keep using them as an example, just because they're, like, so flashy, but you know, I was able to put my web, my website, in my byline. So like, talk about, like, amazing, valuable real estate for you as a person. Like to get people over to your website. And also, the other thing you can do, and it doesn't always work, because sometimes editors strip this out, but like, I find ways to, like, link things inside my article.
So I might say, you know, in my book, I wrote about this, and maybe I link my book, or you kind of can get a little bit sneaky about the things that you link up in there, and that can be really helpful. And I think at the end of the day, you're going to have a lot more leverage and something to gain from actually getting your own work published, and then you can, you can brag about that a lot more like sure, you can say you were quoted an article, but if you can say that you wrote an article that sounds a lot more impressive and can be utilized, I think, in a more powerful way.
Alright, you have me sold. Done. Mic drop. Love that. Erica, if someone wants to do this with you, they're like, Yes, I am ready. I want to give my shot at this. Where is the best place besides the free resource that you mentioned again, which will be linked in the show notes, where else can they go to connect with you and get started with being a freelance writer?
Yeah. So if you're like, boom, I'm sold. I want to take this course right now. You can go to bragworthybylines.com and that is the sales page for my signature course that I run it live three times a year. But it's also available if you want to do it on your own self study. It's more fun live, but you know, so check out bragworthybylines.com but definitely download that tip sheet at my website. Pitchinpublish.co it'll just be a pop up that you can enter your email, and there you go.
It will come right to you, because it's a great starting point to just like, get your head wrapped around, like, the basics of the pitching, like ideas, but I would love to talk to you if you have if you want to email me or Instagram, of course, instagram.com/pitchandpublish. That's where I am. Pitch and Publish. I would love to answer any questions there as well. I'm pretty open book, and usually they're a lot, probably more than I should be.
I'm obsessed with all of your alliterations, by the way, pitch and publish, Brad worthy, by lines like you are, like singing my love songs so
Its so funny, because I didn't even like think about them. I just literally, was like, What should I call this business? And I was like, Well, I'm teaching people to pitch and get published. I guess I'll just call it that.
I mean, you hit the goldmine. It's so good for keyword searchability. Excellent job all around, even if it was by accident. So thank you. Anyways, Ericka, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing the behind the scenes of how people can get, you know, published and paid for for their work.
Again, all of the links mentioned today will be in the show notes, so please make sure you check that out and Erica, thank you so much for listening to the show, and we're so glad you finally are behind the mic and get to have this chance to share your story as well.
