Today's episode is sponsored by feather feather provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how feather power their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly $6,000 In just one day. Hey, I'm John.
And I'm Becky.
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Hey, Becky, Hey, John.
Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to talk to our guests today. You know, we talk a ton about the power of lived experience and how that's translates through founder stories. Or maybe you know, how you channel your passion into how you show up at a nonprofit mission. But today, we're talking to one of the foremost experts in this space, that is curating experiences for young professionals and is really guiding people to finding their calling, finding their purpose, connecting that with their why, and creating incredible lived experiences as well. And so it's my huge honor to welcome Abby phallic to the podcast. She is the founder and CEO of global citizen year. And as we've learned more about Abby's story, I mean, there's so much here value alignment, and so much that she does that we need to pull into our sector as we think about growing the next generation of leaders and the leaders that are here, because she says that it's not ideas that change the world. It's leaders that change the world. And so Abby has this incredible life where she has been an award winning social entrepreneur, and she has leaned in to just some incredible places where she plugs into her thought leadership and her volunteerism. But today, we're going to just kind of immerse ourselves and go on our own little global citizen. You're here on the podcast. And we're just delighted to have you here. Abby. Thank you. And welcome to the show,
Becky and John, I've really been looking forward to this. So thank you for such a warm welcome.
Well is such an honor. And we just want to get to know you. You know what stirred in your heart. What is kind of your journey from being little Abbey growing up to wanting to bring other people along on this incredible journey to be part of something like this.
Let's sweet that you ask because I happen to be working from my parents house today. So I am in my childhood bedroom. They call it the room formerly known as Abby's. But it is a quicker emotional tie then to to your question of sort of where I was growing up, I grew up in Berkeley, California, I had parents who valued travel as the highest form of learning. And they were very committed to making sure that me and my two younger siblings had experiences outside of our comfort zone and outside of the US when we were growing up. And in hindsight, those were the most formative experiences of my early life, they helped me see my privilege, the randomness of the birth lottery, I had won by virtue of where and when I'd been born and the access to a terrific education that I was going to have. And I have a mentor that talks about a social justice nerve that we all have. And once you're aware of it, you can't ignore it. And I do think of my childhood and early experiences as having been a very deliberate set of exposures. That helped me leave my comfort zone, see myself through other's eyes. And in some way, from a very early age, I was really clear that there was no path beyond using my access and opportunity somehow for the greater good. Wow, I
mean, so beautiful. And I just think we talk this often you think that we're talking about nonprofit professionals, we're talking about what we learned or something in an adulthood, but so much of it goes back to how we grew up, whether that we're going to channel that or we're going to, you know, of course, correct some of those things. But I think seeing that, and seeing the empathy that built at a young age, absolutely has to be informing every part of how you're showing up today, which is really beautiful. And
it just makes me think of like you and your family, John, he's got two sets of twins, all under the age of 10. And he and his wife are very passionate about the same thing. And I remember you taking were the littlest set two or three. When you went to China and to Thailand. They've gone to Peru, they've gone to Costa Rica getting ready to go to Portugal. And I just think there's something to what you're saying about being awake. And I like this word so much because when you're awake, you're aware and your empathy lit goggles are completely on so we loves so much what you all are doing over it, Global Citizen year. And I want to talk a little bit about this leadership crisis, that you all are really starting to what I feel like is circumvent. So can you kind of paint a picture for our listeners about that current landscape of leadership and what's happening with this next generation of leaders, because we are really leaned into that in this community, because we believe that Gen X, Gen alpha, they're hardwired to think differently to pour into causes differently, we want to know how you're attacking that and approaching this issue.
Our leaders are failing us. We live at a time of unprecedented interconnectedness, possibility, sort of resource generation, and yet inequality is wider than it's ever been. People feel disconnected, our temperatures are rising. And our climate crisis is not just around the band, it's imminent, there is a way in which our leaders have not seen the whole picture. And Balanced all of the bottom lines that are essential. So we prioritize personal gain short term profit, visible success, we talk about the real good over the feel good at the expense of actually reorienting around what needs to be solved for, which is people, our planet, a shared sense of purpose, I think a lot about if I could wave a wand, I would have us all zoom out into space to see that overview effect that the astronauts describe, where we can actually see that we are just this little blue ball floating in eternal outer space. And to get that shift in perspective to see we are all on the same, same team, we just don't realize it or act like it. And so instead, we're fighting each other. And we're maximizing and optimizing for the wrong things. And my sense is that what I'm here for is to lead a movement that inspires Gen Z, which is the most alert, idealistic, globally aware and interconnected generation in the course of human history. And how do we harness that idealism? For real change? How do we help them understand that it's not just about running around and starting new prop nonprofits? Because I actually think that's the opposite of what's needed in many ways, but instead about humbling themselves to understanding what are the root causes of the problems that need to be solved? What has been tried? How do I learn as a young person as an apprentice to what already is in motion? And how do I take what works to where it's needed most? So global citizen, you're we're on a mission to reinvent a life stage between high school and what comes next. So that we can unleash a force of new leaders who value the things that matter most.
Oh, my gosh, Abby,
here's the thing. As you're talking, I just know from my own personal journey, the power of what you're saying is when you leave the comfort of your home for the first time, I'm not saying go to some all inclusive resort in different country, I'm talking about when you go to a country, and you realize that people are the same, like we're all humanity together, we're connectedness, and we have the same values at a lot of levels to have family and purpose. And we're all looking for those things. Well, take us back. I mean, what was your first international experience that made you come alive to that you wanted others to have that in such a tangible way?
Yeah, I love what you're saying, John, because I do think at the heart of our work, and my certainly, my worldview is people, our people, our people, and as soon as we can see, we are no bigger and no smaller than any other human, we can actually break through to figure out how we can work together in ways that are far more impactful and, and effective. So my, you know, my experience was finishing high school and having been on that hamster wheel, I'd been on the treadmill, I check the boxes, I've been a good student, you know, I feel like my sense of purpose was given to me by others, which was get into college get into a good job. And I finished high school and felt confused and exhausted and aware that there was learning that I valued that had nothing to do with what I was learning in a classroom. And I called the P score actually sitting right here in my childhood bedroom. I remember looking through the yellow pages at the time, and I tried to get as high up as I could to have this conversation making the case for why me at 18 would somehow you know, be ready for this experience. And clearly I wasn't and, and they were right to say you need a college degree to join the Peace Corps. But it felt very ironic that at that age, what was available to me was military service, religious service, but there was no pathway that was in the service and spirit of learning myself, and doing something in in the service of humanity. And so If I ended up going straight to school, there was so much inertia and the FOMO, the fear of missing out. And after two years of feeling really stifled in lecture hall style learning, I took off I took a year off school. And so John, you asked about an early formative global experience. For me it was that year that I spent in Latin America, I was in Nicaragua and Brazil both. And I was on my own before smartphones. And before Google Maps and Google Translate, right, I was having a very much in the real world trial and error experience of myself in a new context. And it was excruciatingly hard and disorienting, but taught me more than I ever could have learned in a classroom. And when I came back to finish college, suddenly, I had confidence and clarity about what I wanted to use my education for. I knew who I was when I was outside of my comfort zone. And the things that made me happy are the things that zapped my energy. I knew what questions I was trying to use my education to answer. And I felt like the experiences I had were as valuable as when I was learning at Stanford. And so I petitioned for it all to count for credit. And I got a year's worth of credit for that lived experience, which in many ways was his early sort of proof point, that has played a role in what we've now built at Global Citizen here, which is to say, the things we give credit to, that the things we accredit are currently quite disconnected from the things that are most worthy of credit. And so how do we step back and say, we have conflated school and education, and the two needs to be approached separately, and a global citizen, or we've got a blueprint for a new type of education. And we believe it's the kind of education that young people around the world need.
Okay, we're going to unpack that. And before we do, I just want to compliment you, because you're a bit of a rare unicorn here. Because you absolutely listened to your nudges you something felt off, and I commend your bravery and your tooth spotting, just go for it and to dive in. And I have to tell you that as you were telling that story, your entire face, and your carriage lit up. And I can see that the awakening that that gave you that gave you your purpose. And I just think about how that juxtapose with this organization story of getting these Jin Zers to wake up, and to pour into that purpose. So early, because I have to tell you, I don't think I found my purpose until 39, or 40. And I think about if I would have had something like this, when I was 19, or 20, or whenever that is, I think about how much my life would have changed and how my values would have aligned with my purpose. And so please talk about global citizen year, talk about your programs, talk about your mission and how you're serving these leaders that are ages 17 to 21. Globally, with this incredible framework you've built.
Becky i So resonate with what you shared about, you know, having these experiences later on in life. And I think we have a cultural template that still encourages young people to sort of scramble up the hill in the first stage of life. And then you have you're knocked off the mountaintop, by some sort of midlife crisis. And then you are ready to put your purpose or your values first. And I think about how much effort and human capacity creativity and potential we're wasting, by sending kids on that very thin scramble. I am a huge believer that if we could have the equivalent of that midlife crisis in our 20s, that the world would change that as soon as you're aware that there's a different mountain and worth climbing. You get to it, you can't do anything else. And so what we're doing at Global Citizen here is making it normal, accessible, encouraged aspirational, that really high achieving high school students from across the US and now from around the world. Take a year to learn who they are and who they're becoming through real lived experience. We provide them with a curriculum with a cohort of peers, kids like them, who are idealistic and ambitious, determined, hopeful that the world can change. They're coached by professional mentors, and they have deep immersive global experiences that shift their sense of possibility. And ultimately, it's really about figuring out who am I what does the world need? And what's my role at the intersection of those two things. And our belief in nonprofit speak is our theory of change is if that we can light young people up at that critical juncture, if we can shift their trajectory even by one degree from the origin The younger we can make that change the further from the starting point, they end up. And for us, it's critically important that we're casting a wider net than our, you know, famous colleges and traditional modes of searching for, for, quote, leadership potential, we don't look at test scores or grades, we're looking at kids who have made something of where they've started, who've inspired their peers to follow them in some way, and who we believe have the raw material that we can work with, to then help shape them so they can really shape themselves into the kind of leaders our world needs now.
Unbelievable. I mean, I think I'm having a lot of like flashbacks to just growing up and kind of in that transition phase of trying to figure out what you want to do. And we put all this pressure that an 18 year old knows what they want their major to be for the rest of their life. We even define, I think even the vernacular of how we talk about that as if you're choosing your sentence said 18, for what you're going to do the rest of your life. This is flipping it fully on its head. And I want to lift a stat that kind of came through as we were kind of prepping for this. But is that studies have shown that in the US just 3% of students report having a transformative experience in college. You talk about that, like what do you define as transformative, but it seems shockingly low. And I know, I'd love for you to address that and how y'all are leaning into that.
Thank you for highlighting that. So I first read it, it was an op ed in the Atlantic that the head of the College Board had written and he cited this statistic, I think the article was called there's more to college than getting into college. And I think we've put so much emphasis on this rat race to get in. But we have then essentially stepped back and been not remotely critical of what actually happens when you're there. And this survey showed that just 3% of young people reflected on their college experience as having been transformative 3%. And this is the biggest investment in time and resources in a young person's life and development. So we should all be this should be headline news, as we think about what the future of higher education needs to look like. There's a piece of that data that I found very interesting that showed well what was in common among those three in 100 students, what did they share, and it had nothing to do with where they went to college. It had everything to do with how they approached the experience. And it comes back to this theme Becky of awakeness students who have agency who are in the driver's seat of their own learning, who know what questions they're trying to answer, who have the confidence to build relationships with mentors, who have the stick to itiveness, to integrate in class and out of class learning. Those are the students who come out the other side of a college experience having been transformed. And so our belief at Global Citizen here is that if we can change the inputs into the higher education system, we have the best shot and actually changing outcomes.
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Well, I'm thinking, I mean, there's so many, so we have 1500 alumni. And they are from 100 countries around the world. And some of them are now the age I was when I was first starting Global Citizen here. And they're, you know, they're 30, early 30s. And I'm thinking of a young woman from our very first class who grew up with a single father, single parent home raised by her dad and her five siblings in North Carolina. And she was just a go getter from from the outset, and was just driving hard to get into college because she knew that that was going to be her ticket to life she wanted to build. And somehow she found global Susan year in our very first year, and I remember calling her was, I would still call to accept all of our students one by one. And the story, she tells us that she was standing in a soccer field after a game and she took the phone and threw it up in the air because she was just so shocked. And her response to me was you have made my life. And it was a really moment of commitment. And a moment of sensing like this is much bigger than me. And I also felt like, Alright, hold on, we've not even done anything yet. So Ananda spent the year in Senegal, working on a local conservation project, living with a family really becoming an integrated part of a community. And I can say this, with deep knowing because about 10 years later, she and I returned to that community with film crew and made a beautiful sort of reflective piece on the experience she'd had. But the emphasis for us has always been on what can a young person learn about themselves? How can they be humbled, and sort of encouraged to sit through layers of discomfort and preconception. So unlike a lot of travel programs for young people, or voluntour, voluntourism or service programs, this is not about going out to change the world. And Nanda would never say that there was something that she did that shook things up in that local community, she would say that was absolutely not her role or her place. But that her role was to learn as much as she could about a different way of living, and about herself, and to take those insights and that expansion of her own empathy and her own sense of her power in the world. And to carry it into whatever she did next. And she's chased down startup jobs in Silicon Valley, and is now developing new products with a view toward how they can be used in West Africa. And it's all sort of this grounding in a humbling and a lived experience that I think has actually allowed her to be even more confident in aiming higher with how she wants to use her precious life.
I think the way you express the philosophy kind of behind it, is everything. And I think, you know, we don't want to we're this isn't the place that we're putting a bunch of people down, but talking about just what we can fight for a better way to show up. And I think what you've painted here is so true, that it's not a posture of changing the world. It's a posture of I'm going to learn and I'm going to you know, that's the experience, you know, and that's the expectation, I think that does change the way that you show up as a result of that. So, and it's
so related to the conversation we were having about leadership. So we believe that leadership is a practice and not a position, it is a constant self reflection. It is a an or an evolution toward letting go of what you think you know, to learn what you need to learn next. It's showing up with curiosity, before judgment, it's knowing that you have courage to do hard things, and that you can align your life with your convictions. And these are the key nuggets when we talk about a leadership crisis right now. It's because we have imagined somehow that leaders need to have more answers than questions and more certainty than doubt, and more sort of clarity and assuredness then a willingness to learn and evolve. And I think that's really what's led us astray. And so we're trying to get at the root cause of a forging a different type of leader who approaches the world through the lens of empathy, humility and curiosity.
Oh, we are over here cheering from the sidelines. And I just gotta say, the way you view leadership is different than the mainstream, which is so refreshing and so good. And even the way that I see that y'all have approached your co leadership of the organization. I want to go there because I think more organizations could follow you as a model. We talked about the talk about this approach that you have embraced at Global Citizen year and kind of unpack it for us.
Yeah, well, so early days, I was doing everything I wear all the hats and you know, sort of command and control. And I didn't know any different or better. And I didn't have a team around me that I was really ready to delegate to. But I remember early coaching that I got that said, you know, Abby, your job is to spend as much time as you can doing the things only you can do. And you need to spend a week and track the things you're doing in a week. And note the things that energize you, and note the things that deplete you. And the things that energize you are a sweet spot that you need to lean into, these are the things that if you do more of them, they replenish you. And your job is to then gather up all the things that deplete you and find people who are so much better than you are at them and who get energy from them. Yeah, and to find those job descriptions. And so ever since I've been on this journey to find people who are so much better than I am at things that I've got no business holding on to operations and management. And it's refreshing to be able to say with I mean, I've said this already, but I have this visceral experience that humility and confidence grow in equal proportion. And I think now being, you know, a bit more than 10 years into this journey, I am more humble about the things that I can't do, and that there are people who are so much better than I am at them. And I am more confident in a very, I hope, appropriately bounded way about the things that I can do and can uniquely contribute. And that to me feels like the the power in then being able to build and delegate to a terrific team.
It's so fantastic. And I think the thing that sticks out to me, ABI is this complete absence of ego, and power. And you've built such an equitable dynamic here. And to me, that's what leadership is all about. It's not about who's out front. And this top down model is the thing that has been crushing us and I and I just think about nonprofits specifically in the power dynamics that are in that I mean, in the way that we are have been rooted in our structures in the dam donor pyramid. So sorry, John has said a bad word. But it's like this, this this concept that everything needs to flow from the person who has the most power, the most wealth at the top. And we believe so much in absolutely flipping the pyramid and wondering what happens when you empower the base. And you've taken that and even elevated it. Beyond that to say what if our leaders felt this way lived this way, learned this way. And that sense of ego invites humility to come in, and learning and listening. And I have to say, talk about impostor syndrome and FOMO. I mean, your academy speaker list has about half of our ungettable get list on it. Because the these are the people in our minds, who are shaping the good that we want to see in the world. They're baking in justice and equity. And they come at it irreverently, and humbly and I mean, I just commend you for keeping the conversation going. It's not just about frameworks. It's about sharing and democratizing what we learn. And I have a very specific question, because I'm looking at you and I'm hearing the story. You're in your childhood bedroom, and you've built this incredible mission that I that I just think has this ripple compounding ripple effect. And I wonder what it means to you as a mom, you have these two little boys. And I wonder how your work influences the world that you want to create for them?
Well, first off, I'm convinced that they won't go to four year college in a way that was expected of me it will look wildly different. We need new pathways. And I think there are a lot of really creative, enterprising people charging hard at the question of how do we, you know, in a, in a system that only has 3% success rate right now? How do we disrupt it? And how do we create new new opportunity? So that excites me? You know, I'll say I think this the journey of building Global Citizen here has been so humbling, to me, it's been a huge learning process. That that is ongoing and lifelong about my own power and privilege as a white woman in this society. And I think it's really, you know, I'm raising two white sons in relative privilege and I've had a really clear sense of orientation around how do I help them under understand what all those identities mean, and how to be humbled in contexts that might not be comfortable for them. And I'll just give one example, which is decided when my first was a few weeks old, I came home from walking him around the neighborhood and came in, I told my husband, I said, you know, I think I'm just going to speak Spanish to him from now on. Spanish definitely not being my first language. And I flipped, and ever since we speak Spanish at home, I speak Spanish to my two boys, and it was their first language. And I share this because for me, it felt like a way of helping them recognize that there's more than one way of saying things, it relates to there being more than one way to do things, or to see the world. And we also have these early experiences that I think were really formative for them, where they spoke Spanish, much better than English for many years as little kids. And they felt out of place on a playground in a, you know, an English only context. And there was just a sense of an awareness of difference and an awareness of identity. That I think learning other languages and having experiences outside of our home context and culture can can help awaken that awareness as well. So doing the best I can humbly stumbling along in the parenting role, but it also feels good to have them learn about my work, and start to understand it. And to see why it is so important to me. And to watch them watching me lead is gratifying.
I mean, you're just our hero.
Just the way Abby talks is like a warm mom hug. It's so comforting. It's so calm. It's so inviting, and uplifting. I, I wish I could hug you I'm a hugger. So I am a couple of miles away.
I mean, the humility also in your story in the way you show up comes through, because I gotta say, Outside Magazine named Jonathan number one place to work last year, that doesn't happen accidentally. You know, we talk about culture, and all of the way that y'all show up different as leaders. And this even shows up in a huge gift. I don't want to connect the dots for McKinsey, Scott. But we just saw this before we hopped on that y'all were the recipient of one of the latest rounds of gifts. But we know how she works in the kind of the background, that they're doing due diligence to figure out what's it really like inside the walls of these places. So y'all, you know, your culture is leading the charge in so many ways. And you just this conversation confirms everything that we thought, but even more so. So will you talk about that? What was it like to get that that gift? We'd love to hear just a little bit of context
on the call or that letter, or whatever it was? Yeah,
well, I think anything like that those two really exciting and affirming recognitions. The Outside Magazine, this gift from MacKenzie Scott, are due to a lot of hard work from a lot of hard people over a long haul. And and I think on Outside Magazine, in particular, I shared sort of that early, early stages of the organization's growth before I had built out a senior team. In full candor, we had trouble retaining people, the culture was not collaborative. It was not particularly equitable, high turnover, high stress. And I just look back. And when I think about having arrived a decade later, at a place where we were being recognized as the top place to work in the country, I give so much credit to my teammates, who helped nudge me into my appropriate role and took the reins and have led have led us to this moment. So it's just so obvious that that is a shared win. And MacKenzie Scott, recognizing, especially at this moment of global turmoil when we've not been able to run our signature fellowship for the last couple of years because we're living through a global pandemic. But she was able to see the possibility that there is a new path there is a new type of leadership. There is an opportunity in this moment, to not race back to normal but instead to imagine what's possible and build something bold and new. I just our lives and the lives of all the students who will have the opportunity to join a global citizen or have been forever transformed by her vision, generosity, trust and her humility. In many ways. She is exactly the kind of leader and kind of leadership we're trying to shine a spotlight on.
I could not agree with you more. We are watching her so closely and we are rabid fans cheering mightily for how she has disrupted philanthropy, the way that she has gone about it the tone that she is setting I I just am so grateful when I hear any of these stories, because to me that gives you such an innovative runway that you can run toward and dream big. And I love that she understands that. And Abby, I mean, we just feel like storytelling is the heartbeat of connection. And we're wondering about maybe a story of philanthropy that has changed you or impacted you in your life that you might share with us?
Well, the McKenzie experience is freshest. And I'll just share I mean, I'll pile on here. But I, I will never forget getting a phone call from someone on her team that said that Mackenzie and her husband, Dan Sherwood had decided to make a $12 million investment and Global Citizen here. And I took the breath out of me, I could not believe what I was hearing. And the combination of rigorous diligence, which I knew had been done, and absolute trust, investing in a leadership team, to know the answers without strings or constraints, it just feels like this is the philanthropy that will change the world. We look around and I think can be quite skeptical and cynical of the impact that philanthropy has had in addressing our most intractable social challenges. Most needles have not moved significantly. And in my view, what she's doing and leading by example, is saying the only way to move those needles is to figure out what works and to give them the runway to make decisions proximate to the problems they're solving, and to invest in leaders, frankly, in the same way that we do in the private sector, to recognize that good leaders need unrestricted capital and significant capital, to try things to experiment to make big bets. And we have constrained that possibility in our traditional ways of doing philanthropy, and I don't think it will be long until some of what she is modeling becomes normative and expected from others.
I agree. And what a beautiful tribute to the way that she's going about this and shaking things up. And kudos to y'all because I think you're shining a light that it's not this random moment in time, it's been so much work to get to that place to find the right people to be ready, and to be good stewards of that money when it does arrive. So just here for that can't wait to see all the impact unfold. Abby, okay. This is painting me to ask this is, you know, all of our conversations lead to getting to our one good thing, it's kind of one of our last things that we ask, what's a piece of advice, maybe it's a mantra, it's something that you hold really close in your heart, that you would leave with our community today.
It's a sticky note on my computer, it says if the path is clear, you're on someone else's. And it is my grounding every morning to remember that I don't know what steps to take. And it is messy in the midst. And it is hard and uncertain. And I can be racked with self doubt. And I just have to remember I have chosen to forge a path that is not clear. And that is the point. And I think if we could normalize that sense among young people, that the job here is to not follow someone else's path for you, but to forge your own, which by definition means it's messy, and painful and hard. And you'll take steps forward and steps back. That I think that's the one message that I am most committed to sharing with the rising generation.
I've never had a one good thing make me cry before as well. So that's you. Okay, Abby, people need to come into your program. How can we help you? I mean, create a ripple in what you're already doing and get more people involved? Where can people find you? How can they sign up? Where are you on socials?
So find us at Global Citizen your.org. We're about to launch applications for the 2223 school year for Global Citizen year. And you can find Global Citizen here on all the socials and me as well. And Abby falak, on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram,
Abby falak, you are just amazing. I wish there was 100 More like you, we just send you off with a wing and a prayer like you know that. I hope what you're doing just gets replicated more and more and more, because I just think this is the light and the hope that we're looking for in the world. And if we can just continue to chase it, then the world becomes more just more full. And I just thank you so much for coming into our podcast and opening your heart and opening ours with your words.
Thank you for such a meaningful conversation.
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