Long time no see. But ladies first is back at least in 2023. I did not plan on that time at all. But here we are. I'm Corey and Alejandra is back with me.
Hello, hello.
And we're still on Warrior Nun. Sorry. Yes. I mean, yes, we still are in Warrior Nun. But this episode is actually a little bit above that and that we're talking about Netflix as a whole. With its decision on what shows it is investing in what shows it's canceling and what this sort of foretells maybe unfortunately for streaming as a whole, which is right now a giant garbage fire.
Yeah, it things have been happening since the last time ladies first released an episode for sure. It's been, it's been insane. To say the least
the thing I was worried about happening if you've been living under a rock and you haven't been following Warrior Nun, but you listen to ladies first was Netflix canceled the show?
They sure did. I remember professing to cut them if they did. But I guess I'm gonna
kind of happen because that would be assault. But we are going to do a metaphorical cutting and face definitely we're going to be discussing a certain press conference style interview that Netflix gave and all of the what the fuckery decisions and reactions that have come since that?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that it's it's interesting to me how, in completely different universes, I seem to live from the people making these decisions and, and allocating all this money. Because I understand that from from a business perspective, maybe and there have been people who have been, who have told me like, Oh, you're just don't understand, but maybe I don't. But they just a lot of these things just don't make sense to me. And I, I think if you, you know, take a look at Twitter, some of the relevant hashtags, you'll see that they don't make sense. They don't make sense to a lot of people who are, you know, Netflix and streaming consumers and people who pay money to, you know, watch the, quote unquote, content on online. Right.
Right. So I mean, let's break this down. Part of the comments. And I think the part that attracted the most ire was Netflix has never canceled a successful show. Ya, which is such a weenie way out term. Because it is so damn vague that they can fit that into be like, Well, that wasn't successful by our account that wasn't successful by move of Abba in whatever way they want to warp it to fit to make it be that they're still in their eyes telling the truth.
Yeah, and I mean, it's so broad and subjective in a way that they could be telling the truth because they can basically move the goalposts goalpost with each and every movie or show you ask about basically what's and that's the frustrating part right? That's the part that you know people general audiences but also journalists and and some business people and some kind of critics and you know, people in the medium have been asking like, Well, okay, what is success like define it, Netflix, if you please.
Well, and the issue here is, we've talked about this I know it's an ongoing discussion about the binge and don't model versus the week by week model. Netflix obviously goes by the drop everything at once binge it model, we have HBO Max, and And Disney plus and I think Hulu, and also Apple TV at this point,
I see some shows, I'm sorry, prime with some shows not all of them.
Yeah, I'm prime with certain shows are all on a week by week model. And I think we're at a certain point where we're starting to at least be able to get some kind of empirical feedback, maybe not by stats themselves because these companies hoard their actual stats, like a dragon with gold. But when we look at audience and online feedback by metrics that we can track there does seem to be unless you've got a particularly zealous fan base, which you know, Warrior Nun is one. But for a standard show, the week by week model seems to have longer term engagement, because it allows for discussion to build week by week by week, versus binge and dove, it's all done at once you talk about it, and all of a sudden our attention span is you know, every hour, there's something new that we're off on to on to the next races. Next show, whatever, it was nice, but we're done with it.
I mean, it was it was I think it worked when Netflix was more or less on its own in the streaming situation. But now it for sure. I mean, the thing is, and one of the going back to that comment, one of the things that that a lot of the journalists and critics have pointed out is that this week by week model basically gives shows time to breathe, right? Not just a building agent, but to also build an audience. There are people who, I don't know, waited until the week, three of the last of us to start watching because everybody was talking about that that episode. And it was every week it was unavoidable. Right. So it was like, Okay, how many people and I know at least a couple in real life, that only then went back and said, Okay, so maybe I will watch this video game adaptation that I wasn't interested in before.
That comes up to the next point here about like conditions. For each of these entities being released, that's not equal for every entity. I mean, let's just look at HBO, Max, House of the dragon, The Last of Us lots of promotion and advertising. Netflix, what have they done promotion and advertising for and I can tell you what they have because the Warrior Nun Fandom has the Warrior Nun Fandom lives in breeds and eats and shits stats at this point. Like there are some remarkable This is not an insult is like I am truly in awe of the statisticians that are part of that Fandom that have been documenting everything and we'll have a link. If you go to our website and click on the article that this episode is in. In that article will actually have several links that you can go and look and see their data on. But they view like how much promotion how much how many interviews, how many trailers, how much was invested into non online real world space advertising for their shows? And that some shows, especially in recent memory, Wednesday? Yep. Oh, yeah. Got advertising promotion pushed through the roof.
They even had like experiential kind of situations with a, you know, like, I don't remember what that's called, like, Gurria marketing or something like we're allowed marketing? Yeah, great. Yes, that's it. Yeah, like, what was that necessary for such a known IP? I don't know. I would think not. But in any case, you know, again, once they got, basically they threw the house out the window with promotion. And then other shows have to rely on basically the algorithm. And, you know, some Netflix execs apparently say the algorithm should be enough. But it's clearly not because Warrior Nun is not the only show that was moderately popular or very popular and got canned because the algorithm isn't enough. Netflix is not just competing with itself anymore in the streaming space.
Well, it's not just committing, committing competing with itself. It's also the algorithm that they claim is so good. I mean, I'll people have been complaining about that algorithm for years. Yeah. of, oh, this new show was released. They'll see it when they log in for the algorithm. I will see it if I scroll all the way down to TV and I spend two to three minutes next, next, next. Next, you know what the average person is going to do not that See, ya can't say the algorithm will get in front of their faces when it's in a condition that you know, is not going to get under people's noses.
Also, there have been plenty of comments about people who saw Warrior Nun season one. I mean, I only know Warrior Nun examples at this point, mostly are mostly No Warrior Nun examples, but there have been plenty of people who have said, I watched season one and Netflix never put season two in front of me. People found out like when I got cancelled, that season two was out. So that's clearly the algorithm not working, because that's the show that you watch, benched and enjoy it and maybe rated positively. And the Netflix didn't, didn't tell you that season two was out. That's clearly an error in that algorithm, unless it was on purpose. I don't want to get conspiracy. It's the fact that
zero interviews for the second season, the sum total of promotion they had But Netflix itself did was a teaser trailer, and two ish trailers. That's it. Yeah. That is literally all they did. The cast and crew did more to promote the show on their own dime and on their own time than Netflix ever did. The Fandom has paid more to promote the show than Netflix ever did. There are literally there's a billboard in Los Angeles, there are three different sign placements in London. There's a billboard in off of Times Square in New York City. There's an ad placement sign that's rotating around Phoenix, Arizona, there's probably more going to be popping up. But I mean, why is it that a Fandom with limited resources and funds is doing a better job of promoting a show that was already canceled. Then Netflix a billion dollar entity did no I understand. They have a lot of properties. I'm not saying every single show should have Wednesday level marketing. They go broke. What but only pushing some shows and then giving dusts to everything else.
Yeah, and then treating the success or failure of those shows as equal. Like that's what boggled my mind. Like, you know, if you spent exactly $0 promoting a show, and it ended up going viral and being on your top three worldwide for a couple of weeks, and then being on the top 10.
That was the exception to the rule. That is not the norm and I believe what did they say? They wanted to make? Oh, the show we're talking about that Korean show. Oh, squid game? Yeah, they wanted to make squid games happen every week. That will never happen. You will spend half of your operating budget trying to advertise crap. You can't manufacture virality not authentic virality Yep, a squid games every week will not happen and on the rare off chance they do put out something that goes room every single week. People are gonna burn out and then why are you putting other crap out? That's gonna have to lug around all around it that you're not going to push?
Yep, that's that's like that's basically the the idea that they have. Right. That's something that actually Peters the other. I mean, Serrano's made the famous, we haven't cancelled a successful show. But Peters, whose first name is escaping me, is the one who said that they're basically aiming to do that every week, which I don't know. Like, again, I'm not a business person, but I just doesn't sound it sounds like a pipe dream. It's it sounds like something that
it sounds like Silicon Valley Tech. You I'm going to promise the moon and you're somehow going to believe me, like when Elon Musk keeps saying self driving cars are gonna be an actualities. Well, you know what Elon Musk just had to Tesla just had to recall like, what 300,000 some odd vehicles because itself man, it's self driving is dangerous.
Yep. I mean, it's it's unrealistic to the extreme. And then, yeah, basically, why are you treating the success or failure of shows equally? When the is there a promotion isn't equal, basically.
And the other issue is there. It's the inherent implication is everything must immediately be a huge hit. Yeah. Which maybe if we're talking theaters, I could see for film releases, but this isn't theaters we're talking long term shows. They chose to invest In an episodic medium, they didn't decide we're just gonna do film feature like film, they chose to invest in episodic medium. Many, many of the most beloved shows of all time, didn't hit their stride until Season Two or season three. Breaking Bad. Better Call Saul. Not every show is gonna be hot right out of the gate. You know what happens to a lot of the shows that are hot right out of the gate? You know what show was on fire for several seasons, and then nobody wants to talk about it anymore because it shot the bed with its ending that bad. Dude, it
sorry, what? thrones? Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's, that's, you know, another aspect of this whole bench thing, not everybody has time to binge. Not everybody is going to binge. And that doesn't mean that they don't like it. That doesn't mean that the show isn't or can be a success, right? Why does it have to be a success? Like 30 days is an extremely ridiculous window to decide whether you cancel a show or not. Like it's, it's too late. Like some people don't finish a show it like some people watch an episode a week of something. They're not gonna finish the show in three days.
And that's the entire thing of Netflix and binge Netflix and chill Netflix and whatever it's, you see, even it's shorthand now in fictional media of like TV shows or films about what do people get in arguments about you watch this one episode before I could? Well, what does that imply with that? We're not watching them all at once. Yeah, we watch them out over time. And so um, yeah, binge, giant catalogue of shows that are unfinished that you paid for, yet doesn't help push that nobody's gonna go and watch after because they know it's an it's going to end on a cliffhanger. They're never going to get resolution for
it. Yeah, exactly. It's basically a graveyard. Netflix, it's becoming more of a graveyard than an alive yard. You know, it's. And that was, that's what I was gonna say some people prefer to binge, right. So some people will wait until a whole season, the whole season of The Last of Us out. That's very valid. You know,
that's what I normally do for show. Yes. But then I normally wait until the season is done, then I go through and I watch it.
Yeah. And that's completely fair. And you should be able to do that and decide you want to do that without, you know, fearing that the shows just gonna get canceled because you didn't watch it in one day, like I did with Warrior Nun. And I wish I could have done something different because I didn't want to, you know, kind of basically eat the whole cake in one go and not have any more cake. But I had to, or I felt like I had to, because if not, it's gonna get canceled. And then those people who wait to binge are going to maybe wait to see if it gets cancelled to see if it's worth binging. So it just, it's
self fulfilling prophecy of okay, well, why should I get invested in any of these new shows? You want to go viral? If I am now thinking you're just going to cancel it and I'm going to be left on a cliffhanger. Yeah. So why do I want to invest in anything when you've got a history of canceling everything I like?
Exactly. Why am I gonna even start anything? Right? I saw comment the other day on on Tumblr of people being like, you know, most WL W fans don't trust anything to stick around anymore. And I'm like, that's true. I just I've like it. It's not something that it's conscious. And even if you're not a WLW fan, if you're a TV fan in general, or a streaming fan in general, that's just becoming the norm, right? You're like, well, it might get canceled, so I'm just gonna wait to see if it doesn't get canceled. And even some people are even like, it didn't get canceled, but it may be it may get canceled on the second season. It wasn't a completely viral hit. So it may wait. You know, it's just it's a vicious cycle. And it's never going to end if it continues like this.
Well and then it comes to when we talk about which shows are getting canceled. Like we talk about LGBTQ representation, we talk about representation for persons of color we talk about you know, we want all of this both in front and behind the screen or behind the camera. And you know, there's a little bit of a pattern about which shows are getting the X. Yep, Warrior Nun first kill. I still say I completely understand why Netflix decided they wanted to cancel. What was it fate the Winx Club, whatever it is the fate saga?
The weeks ago. Yeah,
I honestly I understand that because I saw some of the cost sheets that were in that I'm like, yeah, sometimes shows just get too expensive. And if they're not getting a return, I get it. Yeah. Sometimes that happens if it's once or twice I get it. Not every show is going to connect.
Yeah. And she was like, again, not a business person, but also not not an idiot. I know shows are expensive to make. And I'm not. I'm not saying hey, people, you should give the show your money and not expect return on investment. Like no, that's not how it works. I understand that. Right?
of return. What we're talking about is like not every show is treated equally. Yeah. Another show that got canceled this year raising Dion. Yeah. Half bad, half bad. That will face off of a very well known book series. And that got promoted for veins.
Yeah, with a curiously queer and people of color on on the on the cast. The Wilds got canceled this year as well, though.
I'm not sure what has to be fair, the wild is on a different network. Yeah,
yeah. But it's it. I, I just think it speaks to it's a it's a pattern that's not just on Netflix. And it goes back to that thing that that Saranda said, Right, we've never canceled a successful show. And then the next part of that quote is a lot of these shows were well intended, but talk to a very small audience on a very big budget. Right, so we're seeing these shows get cancelled on Netflix, primarily on other networks as well. And at the end of the day, right, we are audiences and and, you know, other minority audiences are, you know, it's in the name, they are going to be smaller audiences. Right? It's, it's kind of a in there, it's assumed, right. So inevitably, of course, minority representation gets canceled first and is getting canceled first and most often, or so it would seem. And I don't think it's on purpose. But if it's, even if it's not on purpose, it is becoming kind of insidious. And worrisome also see, like,
there was this big movement with a bunch of networks, not just Netflix, but networks across the board of like, we're gonna have, like, we're gonna promote diversity, we're gonna hire these people to help us reach these diversity goals. And then they all quietly got fired, and the programs are shuttered. Oh, yeah. So I don't want to say it's not insidious, because it is. No, it's the uncomfortable kind of insidiousness that we don't want to talk about. Now, I'm not saying that every single one of these shows was just absolute me worthy, and perfect and beyond reproach. I mean, we're not saying that. No, but we're saying there is an unfortunate pattern. And we are saying, you know, Netflix did promote first kill. Yeah. But there are some shows that get treated better than others. And then there's also an unfortunate pattern of common factors on shows that get canceled that they have canceled, the conditions aren't equal. And it's like saying that your said, it's almost like you're setting the shows up to fail. They're not going to be Stranger Things. Yeah. and expecting them to be and measuring them by that gauge of success isn't fair.
Exactly. You're making a show that you know, is going to attract a minority minority audience. You know, as a network, I would expect you would also set your expectations based on on the fact that that audience is smaller and
smaller, but conversely, also, if you show them good faith, intensely loyal,
intensely and willing to spend their bucks on you billboards? Yeah, I mean, how much money could the Warrior Nun have, you know, the first kill Fandom have spent on merch if they had been given the chance? You know, I again, I don't know how, you know, the business of merch works necessarily, but I'm just saying it is it is a Fandom that is clearly more dedicated and more intensely in it. And I would I would think that that is that how has its own its own worth financially other than just eyeballs on the screen. So, I don't know,
I want to go touch on I think another issue with Netflix, the everything and the kitchen sink approach, which is just it's too much. In that Bloomberg article. Serrano's had also said we're equal parts. HBO, AMC affects the Food Network, HGTV and Comedy Central lifetime used to have to hunt through 500 channels of cable to find them all. And now they're gonna be on Netflix. The measure of quality is if you love a dating show, make it as good as the ultimatum make it as good as love as blind. There's no difference in prestige, in quality television in each of these genres as long as they're well executed. Well, okay, you just said we have the equivalent of 500 channels where the content on our one platform again, How is anybody going to find anything? Exactly, letting the shows up to fail? And you're saying, Oh, we're hemorrhaging money, we're hemorrhaging money. I have no problem if you want to be a little bit more cautious upfront about what you're going to invest in, but then invest in it properly. Yeah, and actually give it a fighting chance and not bury it. The other thing about Warrior Nun that we've talked about before, it got sandwiched in between the fourth and final season of manifest the crown season five and the premiere of Wednesday.
Yeah. After, by the way after it was announced promotion, with no promotion, and also after it had been announced that it would be released in winter. And it was fall, if I'm not mistaken. So that something something happened there with with you mean, that decision who made that decision, right? I want to I just want to have words with that person. Because, you know, again, you're okay, you're doing that. You're I don't know why maybe your your logic makes sense. Person. Go ahead, but then also set up your goalposts accordingly. Like of course, of course Warrior Nun is going to get buried in between all these jogger knots. I mean, of course it is,
and especially when you don't even let people know it's coming.
Yeah. Like worrying or not being in the media center. before it's released is to me the most serious aspect of all this, particularly with speaking about Warrior Nun, where it just, it just undeniably was set up to fail. Right. Somebody had apparently, you know, it is apparent to me that somebody had decided to cancel it before
it came out. Let's be clear on our legalese, it would seem, it would seem highly suspicious. And it would seem to our opinion that somebody had already decided it wasn't worth. And again, this is part of how Netflix is structured, have they're very generous to creators after the first two seasons, by the third season, you can renegotiate instead of after three seasons, which is how it is normally in like US TV. So they already knew. Well, we're if we do a third season, we're gonna have to spend even more money. Yeah. So yeah, they very well could have been that they were like, We don't want to spend more money on this. Let's cancel it quietly. You know, nobody knows it's coming out. It'll be fine. Unfortunately, that was just not the Fandom to do that on but
Well, yeah, but then, you know, Netflix, again, is devaluing its own product by doing this, right. Again, it's it's a graveyard at this point.
They are never going to hit a viral show every week. Nay impasto sustainable. The you can't manufacture that. See, in light of the first to not being why can happen? How are you going to keep people subscribing? If the only thing they would have watched otherwise, it's like, Stranger Things. Well, why am I going to keep subscribed and Netflix when I could just pay for one month when it drops? Because you have the mid level shows there that keeps them interested that they watch in between now and when a new season's released?
But if they're all unfinished, then you don't really have them, do you?
Yeah. Because the people who would be watching those shows are gone. They can't count on you to follow through with anything.
Yeah. And then even the new people who are joining in to watch Stranger Things for a month are looking at all these shows, and you're supposed to catalog and they're all on a cliffhanger one two seasons at most unfinished, unfinished stories. So why would they even start watching them? Right and this
isn't even getting into their newfound Fingal efforts to crack down on Password sharing, which I think is absolutely ludicrous.
Oh my god, what? Why you
have people who pay for a family plan? have college students have family like they are legally procuring the different profiles. Why should they stay with you when you're like, well, now what can only come from one IP address? Well, what's the point of doing a family plan? Oh, wait, you want to nickel and dime me. So I have to pay for the more expensive single account for every single person using it? No, I'm just gonna delete you. I'm gonna unsubscribe and I'm gonna be done. Yeah, this weird idea of chasing an sustainable success that you can't make happen versus I'm going to nickel and dime everybody. And yeah, they'll totes pay up for this. Yeah, because the growth has been going on here. I'm not business exact. Well, I mean, I do kind of have I own the site. But I mean, like, from my perspective, business wise, like, this is not great. I will say again, I would rather them have less new shows coming out, but better shows that they are fully invested in and willing to let breathe.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the problem, I think is the growth has to be exponential. And it has to be constant and not just
possible. stainable. Yeah. But more than being unsustainable. It's also it's just it's not fair to all of the shows that they do Greenlight?
Exactly. Then here's the thing, like me, us, you know, someone who writes occasionally, at this point, I would be afraid to be on Netflix, because they don't even have maybe, I don't know, Warrior Nun, somebody decided that, you know, pay more for a third season wouldn't be worth it. Okay, fine. Tell the people behind the show, so that they can finish it, right. But there are so many people, creators going to Netflix with their babies, right there, their beloved ideas, and they get to do one season of them. And then they're just done. They're just done, right. And Netflix has the thing and the rights and the thing up somewhere in a server, and you don't have access to it anymore, because technically, technically you don't own it, and you can't finish it. Like that's sad. And I I'm sorry, I maybe I am an idealist, but I just think that's bad.
Oh, well, and I'm gonna quote there was an article on Screen Rant. We'll link it in the article as well. Netflix's Renewal Policy reveals a lot about canceled shows from Mark Donaldson. And in it Mark wrote, Netflix's problem with shows isn't so much a case of refining their budgets versus the size of the potential audience. It's that those audiences are constantly being distracted by other shows on Netflix. And that's before they log on to one of their other streaming services. If Ted Saran dose is plan to truly is to truly succeed, the new shows need to also be given the space to find an audience rather than being pitted against numerous rivals on the same service. It's what I'm like, why are you giving me 500 channels worth of content then? Why are you dropping new shows hidden and buried in between two or three or four of your juggernauts coming out?
Yeah. And like 100 other reality shows and cooking shows and a million other things. Right. And
there's another article I'm gonna quote from and we will link to it in the podcast article when it's published. From GQ, Netflix's endless cancellations signal, the end of the prestige streaming TV era, written by Lucy Ford. There's two parts of this I want to quote it's, it obviously paints a picture that many have pointed out before that unless something is an instant viral hit by accident or design, Netflix will immediately be waiting in the wings with the hook. But examining that below the surface paints a far bleaker picture, which is that Netflix has zero faith in its users because they don't know who they're targeting in the first place. Again, why are you trying to be everything to everyone and setting all of your shows up to fail? If you want all of them to perform at Stranger Things level, then have fewer shows. Not every show of your 500 channels is going to be a stranger things and they're all going to be prying everybody else's attention. There's only so many paying subscribers you have there are only so many people on the planet who can afford and want to pay for a Netflix subscription.
And those people only to watch Netflix they have jobs and lives and school and stuff.
Right and the other part I wanted to quote which is you can't be populist and specialist at the same time. Again, this is from the Lucy Ford article. Not every new series can be a Wednesday or stranger things but they could be in Orange is the New Black if given the space to curate its audience and draw outsiders to this service, well, that's never gonna happen at this point, because we're canceling shows left, right and center because they don't perform how whatever, the executive who decides that within that narrow three to four week 30 day window,
there, this has been something that has come up a lot lately but and how, you know, any Seinfeld or Breaking Bad would have been canceled if it was on Netflix today. But even I think stranger, sorry, even Orange is the New Black probably wouldn't make it in today's Netflix,
I don't think it was, I don't think house of cards would have made it. No, for sure. A lot of their early shows would have been canceled after one or two seasons.
And that's again, just makes me sad. And it just makes me sad because of what it kind of for boats for the future. Because
Netflix was like this big dude, you know, proponent of specialist prestige. We're gonna give you content here that you're not going to find on your regular shows or channels. That was what set Netflix apart. And then we started getting other digital streaming shows that were like, We're gonna give content, we're blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, so your answer to other competition isn't isn't B needs to put out good quality shows to keep people here it's going to be we're going to literally turn into a giant pig trough and throw everything in there.
Yeah, more and more than what can fit that. Basically, that's that's what they did. Right? We need to have more like their answer to all of these other streaming services was we need to have more content? What
I don't know, I don't think we're gonna treat equally and help try to succeed. Yeah,
exactly. Like more, I don't care. I don't care how good I don't care how popular I don't care just more. Right. And if that doesn't work immediately, then just more more. Right? Don't not putting an effort to seeing Okay, so this is this is potential, we could, you know, maybe get our hands in there a little bit more, turn it in, hire a couple more writers and see how what this becomes No, it didn't work immediately. Cancel it, and make three other things that cost a third of what that cost and see if that works. Based on the way they're doing work. cancel those two, because they all cancel each other out in viewership. Exactly. That's basically that's basically their their view, right? It's just numbers. The quality aspect is nowhere near their minds apparently would seem it would seem sorry.
It's just it is eminently frustrating. It was boiling over before Warrior Nun was canceled. Yeah, I think for a lot of people that was the cancel your gaze Flashpoint, especially because of how a how vocal the fan base was, be how poorly they promoted it. Yeah. And seemingly set it up to fail. Yeah, and it's a hard time you have a hard time convincing people when they start noticing that pattern that you're not in one way or another, even if it is unknowingly canceling the gaze,
unknowingly and insidiously canceling the case. Allegedly. Yes. Yeah. And I also think that with Warrior Nun, particularly, the issue of transparency became more apparent than ever, because bile our perspectives, right from this side, being a fantasy show that isn't as expensive as other shows, it had moderate to, you know, impressive success, given the conditions that it was released in. I sincerely did not expect it. It was like a punch in the gut when they didn't cancel Warrior Nun, because I genuinely genuinely did not think that would happen. I didn't think it would happen.
Here's the thing when we say this has a committed Fandom. Are they as big as some other fandoms? Warrior Nun? Fans? Is this Fandom as big as some other fandoms? No, it's not. But did this Fandom also post up literally 10 million tweets of a Save Warrior Nun hashtag in like 68 days since the show cancellation? Yes, yes. Yes. Did they literally get in? At this point? Like I said, was it five, six different ad locations working on more? Yes, they did. They have meetups, they call them pilgrimages that are scheduled to go to where these are like this. This from a business standpoint, at least from the type of business I'm in. You can't buy that kind of Fandom. Yeah, Fandom that is willing to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars just to tell other people about your show that you don't even have to spend the Fandom that is making and creating their own. I don't want to call it merchandise but their own game You're aware because I don't want to get anybody in trouble legally. The Fandom that is virally popping up around two different continents, three different continents, because I know there was a meetup in the Philippines. Oh, yeah. And they're organizing all of this themselves. They probably know more about their stats, with Netflix and Netflix might at this point, like, I am not kidding. This Fandom with stats is unlike any other Fandom I've ever seen. Yeah, they're by this type of fan devotion. And it is outrageous to me why you wouldn't even at least try to be like, you know, what are bad? Let's give you a movie to wrap it up. Yeah.
Let that's what I mean. I mean, again, I don't know too much of a business. But I, I would it would seem to me that like this kind of engagement is worth something. Something's literally
worth something. It's worth 10s of 1000s of dollars, because that's what they paid for.
Yeah. So so far, so far. Yeah. I mean, I I'm glad to see that this is that this is happening with Warrior Nun Warrior Nun Fandom. I'm glad that that there was more more of an answer than I think I again, the cancelation caught me off guard, but this campaign has also caught me off guard. Right. I'm glad to see that the love for this for this show is big enough that it seems to be making enough of a splash to get eyes on it at least and to at least have some people consider and talk about these things regarding Netflix and streaming in general, because Netflix is a big offender. But again, Prime has been mentioned but HBO, you know,
HBO Max has a good HBO Max has its own little thing. We don't have time to talk about that here.
But it's you know, a lot of these things are connected and related. Right? They're happening with streaming. So I do think that Warrior Nun and the Save Warrior Nun campaign has been a huge catalyst of people outside of just Fandom talking about this because it's, it's, again, insidious, and it's going to ruin television, if we don't stop it for real,
because there's not going to be anything left. It's just going to be a graveyard of unfinished shows. And reality TV. Netflix was supposed to be the savior of saving us from just endless reality shows. And where are we at now? Well, you endless reality shows on Netflix.
Yeah, you know, they say you, you know you
die a hero. Yeah. Or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Yeah, my brain froze there for a moment. But you know, you know what I was saying? But, ya know, I mean, literally, it's going to be either super low, low quality, low budget reality TV, or a huge juggernauts once they style and it's just like the movies all over again. Right the mid budget, you know, mid, even mid quality sometimes. You can like things that are kind of shitty, that's fair. Right and you should get your shitty shows at the end of the week where you have you
can turn off Lana plus Diana, but legends of tomorrow I love it. It is high quality camp it is high quality shitty camp. Yeah. And that's I don't know is it is and it rebels in it and that's its charm, but we're not gonna get those type of shows anymore.
Exactly. Those are the kinds of shows that are that are going to die out if we don't as an you know, collectively as an audience put our money where our mouth is. And if it really bothers us this much we have to let your streamers know and and I mean, the Warrior Nun fun is. Fandom is doing that. I think more than anybody has in the last handful of years. Speaking
of that perfect segue for the next part of this episode. This is this. This topic is two parter. So there's two episodes this episode is kind of focusing on the streamer aspect and the executive What what are you thinking aspect and why we're so fatigued with these decisions? Next time, we're going to be focusing on the audience aspect. Sometimes there are certain behaviors we engage in that may not help shows, but that is for the next episode. Again, if you're listening to this, go search for this on our website, we will have a lot of links both to the articles we quoted from as well as the data links from the Warrior Nun Fandom that you can go and look at because that data is very well presented variable research very well put together. And it's just this really stark contrast with how Netflix treats different shows. Thank you for tuning into this one. If you want to continue this discussion and you don't want to wait for the next episode of ladies first to come out because after all, we do have to record it. We do have a Discord Fandom metals Discord. You can find it on our website comm coyness will be happy to talk and rant about this with you and share your frustrations. And we also have a specific channel for Warrior Nun, where we also basically just fan person all over the show.
Constantly. Yes.
So come join us on there will be thrilled to engage you in further dialogue and discourse. I made that sound so weird. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening all the way through this. Again, we hope you show up for part two, if you've enjoyed part one so far, all 100 Thank you for joining me. Thank you for inviting me to rant. And thank you preemptively. Because I'm telling you, you're going to be part of the next one. And now I've set it on the air so you can't take it back. I'm happy too. Don't forget we have other podcasts as well. We have our weekly TTRPG live Please show the FE forge Academy. Check them out. We also have a neat screen of the ultra critics and at some point this year Cannon Fodder will return. Yes, I know we promised that was going to come in February but that was before Warrior Nun got shit canned by Netflix. So we got a little distracted. It will happen this spring I promise. Well, I hope promise I'm intending for it to happen this spring without something else that I could not prevent occurring between now and then. Let's put it that way.
Yes, we'll do it.
Thank you for tuning in. We will talk to you next time.
