Here is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast - Episode 40.
And now for the third episode with Paul Jarman, affectionately known as Jarms. Remember, if you have not listened to Episode 38 and 39 go back and have a listen to those first. Enjoy.
Now, I'm gonna ask a really hard question. It's like asking, Which is your favourite child, I think. Which is your favourite composition? What is your favourite out of everything you have written? Yeah, I mean, I know mine. I'm gonna say it's Shackleton and it is just so powerful. The story of the survival. Well, not just the story, then, like the whole thing, obviously, musically, it's amazing. And my son's sang it in Birralee and just that story of survival against all odds, for years, two years lost in the southern sea. Like I get it, right. I just, it's amazing. Actually, I must do it again. I have not done that song for years. And then to come back and be decimated by war, to find a world at war. Anyway, it is just, it's my favourite. I'm gonna tell you, it's my favourite. Although Let Go the Long White Sails is magic too. And anyway, no, I'm gonna stick to Shackleton. So what is your favourite? And why?
Boy oh, boy, I'd love to know what everyone else said to this question. It's really hard. I don't know. Look, one thing I've got to say is that it's interesting, the way we sort of understand all each other's work, I'm sure all the other composers are the same. People know me for a certain set of songs, whether it's Towards Infinity, or Shackleton or the Will to Climb or Volta, or whatever. Band of Brothers, Let Go The Long White Sails. But they're only the ones that people sort of hear and know, you know, you write so many more that you're just as happy with and probably are just as good, if not better. But what what happens is that once the song gets known, it just becomes the thing. You know, it's like Pink Floyd, everyone just thinks, Oh, Wish You Were Here, you know, or they, yeah, or the Beatles, they just think of, you know, Hey, Jude or so it's funny, because there's probably hundreds of pieces of mine that you don't even know. And we're good friends, you know.
So I think people also know that they love what they know. I mean, that's why we love Nursery Rhymes and why we chant things over and over to little kids. And we think they're the things you love. The kids will ask for the things they know. Because repetition is powerful.
Yeah, it's interesting too and because of YouTube, people go to YouTube, which is a great thing, YouTube, but how many of your pieces get recorded and put on YouTube? And if they do, they're often terrible quality on an iPhone, mind you iPhones are getting better. But you know, I find for me that everyone knows the six or seven pieces of mine that are the ones on YouTube like you know, with Gondwana singing probably, because they're beautifully recorded, a couple of by Birralee as well. So you know Icarus, you know Volta, Sea of Berries, everyone knows them. And they're by by the way, I love them all, but they're nowhere near my favourites.
Ooh ok, come on? Well what's your favourite?
I don't know. I mean, look, if I strike gold with a piece, and I feel like it's honest to the story, I'm pretty happy with it. I mean, I love Malala. That's, that's one of mine I can say, I don't know if it's my favourite, but I love it because I just think it's honest. You know? Look, I'll tell you what usually happens. My favourite is usually the one I'm working on. Because I just want it to be great. Like I'll okay, I've got one here somewhere. I'll just read you some lyrics of one I'm working on now. It's a bit top secret information.
Okay we won't tell anyone. Just the people that are listening to the podcast. Top secret.
Yeah, that's right. If I get something up here, does it cut off my seeing me or do I just like what happens? It's been a while since I've used zoom. Can you still see me?
I can still see you. Yes.
I'm such a Luddite aren't I? Okay. So, yeah, I've been commissioned this year. I've just finished it actually, for the wonderful Primary Schools Music Festival in South Australia. You know, the big festival that happens every year and every single child in South Australia in a state school sings in it. 12,000 kids.
I do know vaguely, I obviously should know a lot better, shouldn't I? Okay.
It's an amazing festival. It's been going for over 100 years, and they've been commissioning new Australian works for well over 50-60 years, I think. So they've commissioned me a number of times. And pretty much every year they do one of my songs. And they're just been wonderful supporters to me. But they commissioned me to write a song cycle years ago that resulted in me writing Dreaming in the Sky, Southern Sky, you know, all those pieces. And then a couple of years after that, they commissioned me to write Flight. And that's when I wrote Jetman, Take to the Sky, Bonnie and I wrote Lady of the Sky, and I wrote Icarus, so they're just been fantastic. Anyway, the commission this year, and this can be public knowledge is actually about what's happening to the world with the dangers of technology, AI, too many devices, screens, you know, where are we at as technology is expanding? And that was the brief and wow did they choose the right person, because I'm just passionate about this myself. And being a travelling artists for 30 years, I've seen massive change in the world around me of how people even communicate on a flight, you know, and I'm not a big mobile phone user. So I'm usually the only one not staring into a screen everywhere I go. And so for me, this was a really great commission. And you've asked me what my favourite pieces well I've written for for this. And I've got to say, I just love them. They're my favourite that I've written in a long, long time. So I'll just read you the words to the first one, it's called Away From the Screen and just to let you know, the process, sometimes it takes a long time to come up with words, like weeks. Sometimes they happen straightaway. So it there's so many ways you can write. But this one I literally went to my studio, I sat down. Luckily, I had my phone on record and I wrote the entire whole first two verses just as quick as you hear them like a wrap, with the music and this is the lyrics. Look around, everyone head down like a clone. Look around. I'm the only one not on a phone. Look around. Unaware disengaged, uninspired, so tired, uninvolved, disenchanted, you guessed it disconnected. Look around at the world today, for they see the world through the screen in their hand, and they see themselves through the lens of the screen, and they see the screen and the world they see and the screen is their world and the world is their screen. Look around. Look around everyone, not a sign of emotion. Look around. I'm the only one living in the moment. Look around. I am here. I'm alive. I'm inspired, not tired. I'm involved. I'm enchanted. You guessed it connected. I look around at the world today for I see the world with open eyes. And I see myself how the world sees me and the world I see is the world that is free. Free of screens and the world in me. Look around. I am free. There's a whole world out there waiting for me, waiting for someone like me. There's a whole world out there away from the screen. Look around what have we become today? Look around, we are losing the skills of interaction and play. Look around. Do we really need to be entertained all day? Look around, look around. Look around everywhere. Everyone, every sight, every sound every moment slipping by while we're lost in the screen. Look around?
Wow.
Yeah, and I wrote three other pieces. The second piece is about fake news. And it's yeah, it's called Keep the Truth Alive. And the chorus is actually don't go down the rabbit hole. Which is a bit of fun. But um, you know, it's I don't know, I've got to say this to you though, during COVID. So it was about two years, and I lost, you know, like everyone, I pretty much lost all my work. And the only thing I had left was commissions. And I'm so so grateful for the people that commissioned me, I thank all of you and I had quite a few commissions already booked in. But very, very graciously a couple of organizations just got in contact with me and said, We know it's going to be a hard couple of years. We've got a budget do you want to do a commission, doesn't even matter. Just write it. You know? How good is that?
Thats, that's special. Yeah, yeah.
I gotta say, yeah. So I did. I did have time, right. So write all these commissions, and everyone said, Oh, you must have been so in the zone. You know, as an artist and all that time and how interesting. I hardly wrote anything during COVID. Yep. And I realised that I'm definitely not an inward composer. I'm an outward composer. And without the concert, without the story without the people in the world singing it. I just had no voice.
Yeah without those connections. And that, yeah, that process.
I really tried too. I mean, I did write like, over that two years, I normally would have written maybe 25 pieces, right? I wrote three or four. And they were great though. I was so happy with them. Like they they just flew out to me and they felt really, really good. But I couldn't write anything else. And then about sort of April this year, when the world started opening up again. I wrote like 15 pieces in six weeks. It just flew out of me. And these were some of them. I wrote what I consider the best, like 10 or so pieces in a row that I've written in years. No one's heard them yet because they haven't been premiered yet. But yeah, it was just an amazing thing is like, wow, you know, and I've got this, such a moving commission. I've got a really lovely relationship with an International School company in Asia, mostly China, Dulwich College. It's actually Dulwich College in England is as old as Shakespeare, and Shackleton went there. Yeah, so this is Dulwich College International. And I've been going over to China for nearly 15 years now working with them. And that all thanks to an amazing Australian lady called Mary Giles, who now lives in Perth, but she got me in the doors of Dulwich College years ago. And I've been going back to China every year ever since, sometimes two or three, four times a year. And they've commissioned me a number of times. And I've written some really great pieces for them. And the Shanghai School commissioned me this year, to write a piece for their big music, arts, drama, dance Festival, called MADD. And the thing is, though, all the kids 1000s of kids from across these campuses, they were locked in their apartments, they couldn't even come together to perform, but they still wanted to commission me to write them a piece, and then it would all be taught online. And these amazing teachers from all around the world worked on these amazing ways to get the kids together on Zoom and things, performed together. I mean, I just can't believe the stress these teachers are under too. Imagine being a young teacher in Shanghai during that lockdown. Unbelievable. So these people just touched my heart so much. So the brief was out of space, basically. And I just wanted to give them this gift of something so positive and beautiful. And so I'm a huge Carl Sagan fan, you know, the greatest author and astronomer, he's since passed, but Carl Sagan, I grew up watching Carl Sagan, and I just love the guy, everything he says about the universe and humanity, you know, just, I really connect with it. So I wanted to channel his thoughts and his positivity, but give them something to really send them on this journey. And then the news came on with those awful, terrifying images of all those people, hundreds of them wailing out the windows in Shanghai, do you remember that? Because they're in the middle of lockdown yet, and it just gotten to them. And they're wailing to the night. I mean, I just found it quite disturbing, and really moved me you know, particularly since those kids were there, the kids I'm writing for writing. Yeah, yeah. And so I wrote them this crackin beautiful piece called Fly Across the Universe. And the whole thing is like, you know, have you ever wondered into the stars? And where does life come from, and all that stuff, but then through all this dreaming, I kept thinking of Peter Pan, you know, just taking off out the window, I thought they're going to literally jump out of their apartments, and fly through the universe into a better time in space, you know? And that, again, that piece when I wrote that, I just thought, Wow, this, I'm happy with this one. But you know, again, you haven't heard it yet because it's not out there yet. But yeah, that's what it's all about to me, you know, and when they got that piece, the kids just couldn't believe it. And I just think, you know, I wonder how much hope that brought to them, you know, during that really tough time. And for their teachers, you know.
I can't wait to hear that. And that's magic. It's magic. And special. I'm using the word special a lot, but I'll switch to magic. It's magic. Now, for the people who have not come across your work, where would be the best place to hook up with you and your work?
Well, I have a website that has been horribly treated during COVID. I've hardly, I haven't even maintained it.
I was going to say Has it been a little neglected Jarms? Has it?
Very neglected? Yes. My golf game is improving. And my website is all over the shop. So no look, I've actually these holidays, I've actually finished up for the year now. These holidays, I'm just, I'm composing and I'm actually going to update my website, I'm probably going to put about 20 new pieces on there, which I'm excited to do. And just for anyone who's interested and you'll probably all be very grateful too. If I can do it, and I'm going to try over the next few months. I'm going to take every single one of my pieces off that website, and I'm going to edit them all. I'm going to rejig them a bit.
Really. That's a huge job, Jarms.
Yep. I'm going to do it. Now. There's a few reasons why. I've just gotten better over the years at laying the music out on Sibelius. You know, like, I'm old enough to say that I remember when Sibelius came out. I had Sibelius 1. I just, I wasn't great, you know, at the laying out of it, and I look at the pieces I wrote like 10-15 years ago, and they just need they need an overhaul. Also, I've got massive hands and see I'm trying to, look how big they are.
They look big on the camera.
And I've got a big, like, I can reach a 10th, or an 11th.
Oh, wow, that is big.
A lot of my left hand parts for the piano, are quite big and reachy, and I just feel like, you know, I've talked to a few piano players over the years, and I just feel like I want to just change my piano parts a little bit, and just make them a little bit more user friendly, you know, not make them easier, just a little bit better perceived. And I'm going to lay all the music out. And also another thing happened to me when I was building the site, nearly 10 years ago, I was going blind. And so I actually found some spelling mistakes and I put my glasses on, and I've gone oh my god, right. So it's time to pull a couple of scores. And then I thought, You know what, I'm just gonna do the lot. So it's a, it's a nice thing to do to update. And you know, nothing wrong with it. Nothing's set in stone. So look out folks and watch this space, because I'm going to revamp all my work, I'm going to put up about 20 new pieces, there's over, there's over 80 pieces that could go on there at the moment.
But you still haven't actually given us the URL.
It's www.pauljarman.com.
Oh, that's pretty easy.
And yeah, pauljarman.com. The other thing I'm gonna do is because I've got awesome groovy teenage daughters, and they're all over the Instagram thing, I'm actually going to get a little bit more of a presence on Instagram.
Oh are you really? Oh my goodness.
Not in a sort of, I can't bear the thought of having this filming me everywhere I go, I'm not going to do that sort of stuff. But I probably will just get a little bit of that going. And one of my daughters is going to manage that for me. So that'd be good.
It's exciting.
Yep. And the other thing to watch out for is that see these days everyone wants to hear your music before they buy. They never used to, they used to just trust it or throw caution to the wind. These days, they want to hear it or see it. And I do offer previews on my website. And I do offer some listening audio things, right. But I'm actually going to update them too. And I'm thinking of actually doing what some sites are doing, which is the music folds and plays as you listen to it, which I know a lot of people are doing now. So that's going to happen. But yeah, that's where you get my music. And that's the only place you get it. And you know, there are always options to go with bigger publishers. I mean, I was published by Mark for many years. And I mean, Mark still publishes some of my stuff. And I haven't left Mark, he's like family to me. But you know, about 10 years ago, I did say to Mark, I wanted to go out on my own and publish my own stuff. And he was totally all for it. Yeah, which is cool. But you know, I haven't gone down the path of the bigger publishers like JW Pepper, or even some of the more local bigger publishers, and not because I don't like them, it's got nothing to do with that at all. And I probably could maybe have a little bit more outreach, if I did go with them, you know, but there's something I really love about just running my own little ship like this. And it's not about, yeah, just the sales, and that it's about the connectivity, you know, and I really love that it's done through me. And if they want my music, come see me, you know, and the advantage is that everyone who buys and sings my music. They're now friends, I know who they are, I've got their email, and we stay in touch. You know, and I can't tell you how many groups all over the world from, you know, from Finland to Morocco, to Portugal, to the Middle East, to Asia, all over Europe, Mexico, you know, I've sold music in all these places, I get in touch with them, you know, and if I had a big publisher, it'd be a lot harder to do that, you know?
Well, so that would be it would be almost impossible to do that. And for you. It's it's obviously about the human connection for you.
The rewards are huge. I mean, I had this choir from Mexico buy quite a big purchase of my music. And I contacted them I just said, you know, I'm so stoked that someone in Mexico is singing my stuff. I mean, I just can't believe it. They rang, they emailed back and said, We can't believe that a composer would contact us. So, I mean, they think we're some sort of you know, omnipotent being that you get this Darshan, if you're hanging out with a composer, you know, we're just real people, too. And so I was thrilled. And I said, Well, look, this is this is great. Could you send me some footage of you singing it? And they said, Yeah, could you send some footage like to say hi to our community, and as soon as they sent it back, I realised that this was a, you know, a really beautiful genuine community. Probably not doing it that easy, you know, financially so I can now reach out to them and say, Look, if you want anything from me, you just ask because I'll help you out. And that's what it's all about, you know, making these these contacts and just keeping it alive like that, you know?
Yes. And honestly, even I'm proof of that. You even spent a little bit of time tweaking and working on a couple of my little pieces that I wrote. And you added some ...
Which I'd love to get back to by the way. I must say, they are fantastic.
They are good little pieces, because of that Jarms magic, the Jarms and O'Shea pieces. Very simple. But when you added the piano parts, and we worked on it together, and it's just proof, really that for you it's about the human connection, and the heart. And the process.
It totally is, that's why you do it, you know, and that's what keeps it all going. I mean, that's the whole point of it to me, you know, and it's gets back to, actually I just saw in my notes here. It's a lovely thing to mention. My teacher when I was, you know, a kid, I had piano lessons with this lady called Phyllis. And I mean, she was such a good teacher, right? Strict, strong, stern, but absolutely 100% brilliant at teaching piano. I think she's still teaching piano by the way. And her students just get straight A's. Now as a 10 year old, I will be honest with you, and she won't mind if I say this. I was probably terrified of her. And I think I hated going there. Actually, when I look back on it. I don't think I ever really enjoyed going there to have lessons. I loved playing. I knew she was a great teacher. I knew she deeply cared. But it was pretty hard going there as a kid, I have to say. And I don't mean that in any disrespect. She wasn't nasty. It was just she was really strict. Good on her, by the way. You never showed up without doing your practice.
Yeah, that's right. She had high expectations.
I mean, she wouldn't even let you. I remember once. She said, Do not take those hands off the keys. You know, one day I had hay fever. Oh, man, did I have hay fever. And I was holding in this sneeze because I didn't want to take my hands off the keyboard, well I let out this huge eruption and of course snot went everywhere, hanging down onto my fingers and I still didn't take my fingers off. She said take your hands off, please. Yeah, but anyway, I had not seen her right in probably 35 years. Okay. I hadn't seen her in 35 years or so probably more. And I was conducting a concert in the Blue Mountains where I grew up. And she walked in and mate when she walked in, I just burst into tears. I couldn't, I just choked up, I couldn't even speak about her to the crowd. I was that moved because that this one woman who probably terrified me, as a child, she has given me my whole life. If it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have travelled all around the world. I wouldn't even have my kids because I met my wife through music at a festival, I wouldn't have my beautiful wife who I love so much, you know. I wouldn't have the life I have today, I probably wouldn't even be living in the house I've got. If it wasn't for music, and her gift to me, you know, and it's something it's so powerful. I probably couldn't even tell her straight to her face, you know, but I hope that all the teachers out there understand what you do for the kids, you know, and the way you touch their lives. And you know what life's journey is one path to the matrix of life. You just have no idea how much impact you have on people. And you know, my way of saying thanks to her is to be as hopeful and positive and generous to every single musician, but also the kids that I work with in all the schools and the kids know me for that, you know, because f I can just change one life if I can just help one kid realise, you know, I'll be happy and man if it's 1000s, cool. You know, I mean the other night, I went to Jacob Collier with my daughters. Jacob Collier is just amazing, right? I love this guy. And of course Jacob's audience are all these young, cool, mostly musos, right? So we queued up for hours because we wanted to go in the mosh pit. So there's me, I'm the only guy my age in this queue with all these kids queuing up, and it was like I knew nearly every kid in the queue. They're like ah, Paul Jarman, Mr. Jarman. I've been to their schools over the last 10 years. And you should have seen the mosh pit, it was like old me and all these kids that they all knew who I was, it was just so cool. It's like you conducted me at high school or you conducted, you wrote my school song. It was just so nice. You know, being in the middle of that.
That is very cool.
I thought I found my gang in the mosh pit of a Jacob Collier concert.
Go Jarms, he's found his people.
It was fun.
I love it. Look, I know there are so, so many stories that we haven't talked about and I try to keep the episodes to around half an hour, so you'll be doing a triple. Okay.
I really hope it doesn't seem too indulgent, just talking like this.
No, no, absolutely the antithesis of indulgent, it has been a complete joy. But I do want to hear, there's one story that I want you to tell us. And then I'm going to give you a chance to send a message, get on your soapbox and send a message to everyone. Mind you. You've already said so many important messages, but you were somewhere queuing up for food and you tapped someone on the shoulder. Do you know the story I'm talking about?
Yes. Apparently I do.
I hope so. Because we will. Okay, I'll just Yeah, but I should just tell our listeners why I'm asking. Because this you might have gathered from the beginning of our chat that we have attempted to do this recording before. And because of internet issues we had to abandon and you'd started telling this story. So I haven't even heard the end of it. And it was such a good story. And I'm sorry listeners out there. I want to hear the end of the story. So I'm prodding Jarms to go back, tell the story again. And I'll hear the end this time, and you'll all get to hear it as well.
Well, it's with pleasure. I don't mind telling it at all because it's a cool story. Okay, I've just got, I forget the years. It might be 2008 maybe, yep, I'd say it's 2008. And I went on a wonderful tour with the arts unit New South Wales Education and Training with their choir Sing Australia, oh sorry, Sing New South Wales, sorry, it's not Sing Australia, Sing New South Wales. And because I used to do a lot of tours with choirs it was just fantastic. We'd always go and we present Australian music, etc and a lot of my stuff. And so off, we went with a complete set of Australian pieces. I'd written Pemulwuy a few years before, so we took Pemulwuy, Warri and Yatungka, Will to Climb, they commissioned a few pieces. And I worked with this wonderful Aboriginal elder called Les Bursal, he has since passed, but um, we took some pieces that I wrote in collaboration with him. And it was just fantastic, great, quiet kids from all over New South Wales and beautiful, wonderful teachers, I'm still in touch with them today. People like Jenny Gregory, Heather Causley, and Kathy Wellsford. And anyway, we're over there. And we're at this wonderful Choral Festival in Vancouver and the guest conductors were Cristian Grases and Bob Chilcott. And Bob and I love Bob's work. And Bob's been very kind to me, he's actually commissioned me as well. So there we are. And we're standing in the queue at the big lunch queue, because there's choirs from all over the world, I'm talking probably well over 1000 kids, you know, and all their teachers and all the different flags and all the different languages. It was just fantastic. And Vancouver's a great city, and they really put on a good show here too. Anyway, we're standing in the queue and the woman in front of me is singing Shackleton, times were hard, but we made it over. And I can't remember how it happened but I think I might have just tapped her on the shoulder. I didn't sing along with her. I think I just tapped her on the shoulder and I said, Oh, that sounds great. I wrote that, or something like that. Anyway, she dropped a plate of food. She couldn't believe it. And anyway, beautiful woman. We became friends of course. And once again, these stories, so her name is Laurel and Laurel at the time she was there with a Canadian choir, she's a Canadian lady, called the Rafiki Youth Choir from Thunder Bay, Ontario. So we've met, we've become friends and by the end of the festival, she said would you be interested in writing a piece for us and I said, I'd love to write a piece for you. And Thunder Bay is smack bang down sort of bottom corner of Ontario there. It was the last place that the amazing Terry Fox got to on the run. Remember in the 80's Terry Fox lost a leg to cancer and to raise money and awareness for victims of cancer he ran a marathon a day with one leg and he tried to run across Canada. That was the idea, started on the East Coast. He ran I think 330 days around that straight, he just ran every day a marathon. Incredible, through the ice, the snow, across the rugged rugged mountains you name it. And so he is like, he is the probably the national hero of Canada. Lucky there are schools named after him. There are mountains named after him. You know, there's the Terry Fox Run which is run every year all around the world. They they even run it here in Australia and to say that he's an important figure in Canada. You know, I mean, yeah, he's huge there. His parents lit the torch for the Olympics, you know at the Winter Games. Yeah. So she said, would you love? Would you like to write a piece a commissioned work about Terry Fox? And well, I just I couldn't believe it. I mean I'm not Canadian, I've never even been to Ontario. I just felt like, Wow, am I going to be okay to do this, you know, not that you have to be parochial or anything, I didn't mean it in any other way that I just hope I can connect with the story. Anyway, I said that to her. I said are you sure and she goes, Well, the way you told the story of Shackleton and the way you told the story of this and that that's the guy we want. We want someone who can feel a story like that. And I said, Okay, I would love to do it. Thanks to just tapping this woman on the shoulder, I come home to Australia, and write this piece for Terry Fox called Running with a Dream. And they flew me over to Canada, it was the most amazing experience. And I worked over there in schools for about a week all around Ontario. And then the world premiere of choral work for Terry Fox called Running with a Dream written by an Aussie was in in Thunder Bay. And then we went up and performed it at the monument, which is the last place that Terry Fox made a step before he went back to hospital and passed away. So it was the most moving, it was one of the best and most moving experiences in my whole career. I mean, and I'm including in there, you know, standing on the battlefields of Famille with the Hunter Singers, you know, that was, wow. Well, you know, but I can't tell you how moving it was just to go over to Canada and be part of all that with those beautiful people, you know, it was very humbling. And that was all thanks to saying gday in the queue.
That's an amazing story to finish on. I think that's beautiful. That is just beautiful.
It's been so great to talk with you Deb, it's just so good to see you again. Yeah, thank you.
There's not an extra message you'd like to send out to anyone from your soapbox, or do you think, no, no finish? You speak so well, I'd love you to send a final message to everyone listening. What do you want the world to know?
Well, this is a post COVID message. Actually, I mean, I could talk about so many things, I'm sure some of your guests have. I mean, we're living in such an interesting time, aren't we, I mean, it's really, but let's not go. Let's not go too big and global on this. But let's just keep a little bit more localised in a post COVID situation. I've been back on the road now for about seven or eight months. And all I can see is that we need to rebuild. It's time that we work so strongly and beautifully together in harmony, to win things back, particularly for choirs and bands, because it's like two years has been taken out of the wheel. And the wheel has to keep turning and the wheel is so successful with organisations like Birralee, or Gondwana, Hunter Singers, or the Young Voices of Adelaide and all the organisations around the world of which we all love and share. But the wheel has its, we need to repair it and we need to rebuild now. And I take my hat off to all the people that are just striving ahead and putting it on. Even if the quality isn't as good as it was two or three years ago, even if the numbers are halved, which they are pretty much are, so good on you guys for keeping the dream alive. But we've got to keep it going. And there's only one thing that I've just heard everyone say this year, and I say it too, is just do it and just put it on because if we don't, we don't want it to halt. It's got to just keep going.
Thank you very much, Paul Jarman. I have enjoyed every second of listening to you. And I'm sure all of the listeners have as well. And we will have to do it again. All right?
Anytime, anytime and if anyone is out there and interested in talking about any of these things more, don't be scared to just reach out and email me. That's fine. Just the more we'll stay in touch the better really.
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jarms.
You're a legend Debs. Great to see you.
Bye.
Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don't forget, you'll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you've enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it if you did. All I can be is the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye.
As we know laughter relieves stress. Don't lose sight of the funny side of life. Why did the Scarecrow win an award? Because he was outstanding in his field.
