My name is Catherine car and this is season three of relatively the podcast all about potentially the longest relationships of your life.
Oh, let me just you know, I'm just gonna replace my batteries or just start one bar Ding ding ding winners all around.
I'll be bringing siblings together to talk about the connections they have as adults, as well as what it was like growing up together. This week, we're talking to sisters and podcasters Beatrice and Rose Moon cave,
my dad would go out open the door with get off the driveway.. " You stupid eejit!" . The parish priest never darkened the doorway again. And I feel like that sets the tone.
But and also talk to them separately to get a more private take on the relationship.
Like there really is such a broader leeway for the second child.
I think I resented her for having not wanted to be my friend for all those years and I think I kind of held a grudge about that.
And in a new twist, I'll be delving a little further back with the help of our sponsors, find my past the family history experts. Wow,
we're cool and I'm excited and also worried.
Brothers and sisters are never straightforward. Beatrice and rosemary grew up in Ireland, but now live near each other in the States. Rose me joined her sister at the start of the pandemic, and they're brilliant podcast, not without my sister was born out of lockdown chats in Indiana. In this episode, we talk about leaving Ireland, their maternal but irrepressible mother and strict dad about depression and also the Catholic Church. But we started this time at the very beginning.
My name is Rosemary McCabe. I am 37 years old, and I'm the youngest of two daughters, much to my mother's chagrin, I think she would have liked to have about 16 I mean, not daughters, necessarily, but kids.
My name is Beatrice, McCabe, and I am seven years older than my Sister Rosemary.
Wow, that's quite a big gap. Yeah, my parents had been trying to have her or to have I mean, not her specifically to have any baby for a couple of years. I think it took them six years to have her and then it took another six to have me and then that was that
dad who has zero patience with kids claims that he also wanted lots of kids, but I think it was more it's an easy claim to make when you never actually had to be put to the test.
And I think they went through, you know, a process of figuring out why they weren't getting pregnant and being very upset about it and trying to do X, Y, and Zed and they had just started looking into the adoption process when they had B and then they stopped.
Was that part of the mythology in your family? Or did you not know about it until you were older?
I think I knew about it all along because because my mom used to run a an Irish language playgroup, and she's like a dog and a squirrel when she sees a baby. You know what I mean? She's like, immediately gravitate toward the baby. How old is your baby? Oh, it's gorgeous. She's gorgeous. Now this kind of thing. At the time, she was more religious than she is now. And she used to be like, but you know, Holy God gave me you too. And I suppose I had to be happy with that.
So you're ordained children. Let's just put it that way.
We're miracles. Although Beatrice likes to remind me, she's more of a miracle than I am.
Even though we were these two miracles that came along. My mom always told a story about she had, she always told us that we were the left behind in the hospital, we were the second choices. And that, you know, she tells a story about how the doctors went around and begged somebody to take these hideous babies. And eventually, you know, she said, Well, listen, if nobody will have them, I suppose I'll take them home. So I don't know that she really learned a lot on this journey of miracles.
That's quite um, I mean, there's quite a lot of unpacking to do there
really? Well, I know. And I said it to my own kids recently, like I, you know, I was just thinking, like, I'm grind I'm very well adjusted, allegedly. And so I said it in the car to one of my kids who promptly burst into tears. I was like, oh, it's obviously not as funny as I thought it was.
Ireland in the sort of what? Mid 80s is a different place, maybe to America in 2022
Yeah, I think there's also a you know, there's a resilience to growing up anytime outside of now where it is, you know, more the helicopter parenting and like, don't say anything to upset your kids and be nice to your kids. And my mother certainly did not get that memo.
And what about her religion? And what was that, like when you're growing up? Was it stricter and then got less strict or was God not that strict? By the time you came along?
She talked about religion, you know, in a sense that she'd be like, oh, you know, that's up to a holy God and or not even Holy God, I kind of say that as a joke, but like, that's up to God and like, we went to Mass kind of most Sundays and when when it came time to make my communion and beaches as well, actually, we were given a choice, which was very unusual for kind of chill. I don't think anybody else in my class was given a choice. And of course, I was like, I want the dress and I want the money was my main probably not in that order. It was like, I want the money and I want the dress.
But the part that I find funny is I say like, I can't believe you don't go to Mass anymore. And she'll say, Well, you're not in the house anymore. I'm like, but I didn't want to go to Mass.
So as to your benefit that she went
exactly
exactly like we were Catholics on paper. Therefore, we went to mosque, I don't really remember, like being encouraged to say my prayers at night or any of the other stuff that came with being Catholic. I think it was just like, Yeah, going to confession, which in hindsight is weird.
I think dad played a big part of it, because he's very non religious, like to the point of being anti religion. You know, he's an alleged libertarian. When they moved to their house in the country. They moved from Dublin out to the countryside, and mom thought, actually, I mean, what a bully, he brought her out to this spot of barren wasteland. And she went, Oh, no, I wouldn't be interested in this. They said, Well, I've bought it. And she burst into tears, right? And then immediately, and then immediately went about making the best of it. Well, it is what it is. You're up. You're up. You're in the wasteland. You're in the wasteland.
I married him and he's my husband, and we're in it together.
Oh, exactly. Exactly. And I think you know how he married somebody else who was religious, it might be a very different consideration. But one of the first things that happened when they moved to the countryside was the parish priest came up to visit and they had just laid the new driveway with cement. And he walked up the driveway, Dad, what got out opened the door when I get off the driveway. Yes. tubidy. So the parish priests never darkened the doorway again. And I feel like that set the tone for how they are their religious interaction was going to be in the parish.
I love your dad, Mr. Raging?
Can you remember anything really silly rules your overly maternal mother had when you were small at home? That seemed funny now. So in our house as an example, we weren't allowed to watch ITV because it was surely going to ruin us. It wasn't as good as BBC. So I wonder Oh my god, that's
so funny. We weren't allowed to watch Glen row, which is a very specific, well, I wasn't allowed to watch Glen Road, which is this really weird kind of country. So that's on Irish television. But I think it was more just because she was like, you won't get it. It's just about like adults hanging around the time. And but at the time, I was like, what salacious things are happening in Glenroy that my mother won't let me watch.
I don't know. I mean, I feel like there because there was only one of us at a time, so to speak. And I mean, at one point, I, at one point recently, like back when I was an only child was was like you were never an only child. But I've been I was maybe considered myself to be also for a long time afterwards when this you know, thing came along and then stole all the attention from me. It was a very low key household. We went to bed very early, like when I think about it now. But I was extremely well behaved. So I mean, I probably just went straight to bed. So did RoseMarie. Like, we were very good children. I think Dad was kind of cross.
He was crossed because you were good children or cross in strict.
I think he was crossing strict. This we became good children well behaved. I was only thinking I mean, as I woke up this morning to my four year old in the bed, saying Good morning, mom. I was like, Oh my God, I need to get this guide on my back. But my dad always tells the story of well, when Beatrice was, I don't know, a year and a half old, she had a nightmare and came into our bedroom crying and wants to get into the bed and your mother scooted over in the bed. And I said, get back to your own bed, and he went back to your own bed, and you never came back in again. And I was like, of course, I never came back in again. I was like monsters are in that room.
to different as we as we reflected before Ireland in or anywhere in the 80s was difficult to now right?
This is my dad still in 2022 To be fair.
What was she like as a little sister?
I mean, honestly, don't tell her this. I don't have too many memories of her. I think I wasn't that aware of her. Like she was just a little sister. Because we were so different in age, I think that it just wasn't really a consideration. We didn't do anything together like family holidays, etc. But everything else we did was very separated by age.
That time I was kind of five or six or seven and really, really wanted to be playing with her and her friends. She absolutely did not want to play with me at all.
And I remember letting her play with my Barbie dolls and not killing her. So I feel like that was very generous of me.
I think that's what my saintly. Exactly.
Then when I kind of do remember my mom being like, Oh, let your sister come and hang out with you kind of thing, but I'm sure for Beatrice. Like I can't imagine anything worse than being a preteen or a teenager and being like, oh, you know, your seven year old sister wants to come and hang out with you. So I feel for her now, but at the time I obviously only felt for myself.
Yeah, I mean, when you're the little system you're trying to catch up. That's quite a big thing. It's quite a big deal. You feel sort of misplaced, I think.
Um, yeah, I don't know if I ever I think I was very quite a precocious and like self possessed child. So I don't think I ever felt misplaced. I just was like, outraged that you wouldn't let me play. You know, I was like, she's being so ridiculous. I mean, I just want to and I was kind of I didn't ever really get upset. I think I just got annoyed.
So does that mean then that she sort of would leave one school and you would join it and you were Doing exactly, yeah, yeah,
exactly. So I was there. What's it called Baby infants and senior infants are junior infants and senior infants and she was in fifth class and sixth class while while I was in those two so we were in the same school for those two years.
Do you remember that little bit where you crossed over an infant school when she came into the playground?
My mom at the time was a teacher in the school and teaching kindergarten basically, we're you know, babies. I remember a small feeling of like, oh, here comes your one again, like the favourite because Rosemary is definitely the favourite and I definitely remember that, you know, that came to the fore as well in school. I was traipsing through surviving, you know, fending for myself and Rosemarie was hiding behind mom's skirts. In my opinion, like, this was my memory of it. My perception.
She's the favourite that is that sort of acknowledged fact in the family. Oh,
100% except by mom who says, No, she isn't. And then I go, okay. She isn't. Well, maybe she is. There's so like, though my mom and rosemary are so alike. So she's basically admiring herself.
You could it all worked out. I like. I like this. I like the psychology.
We look very similar to one another, like people have asked us are we twins before and I have been walking down the street and Dublin and like a stranger to me has approached me and gone. Oh, my God, are you based in Cape sister? I mean, we've always been very attuned to one another and very similar. So like, one time when she lived in Italy, I came to visit her and I arrived to the airport, and she came to meet us. And we were both wearing the same T shirt from h&m that we bought in different h&m in different countries at different times. You know, without any reference to one another.
Oh, my God, we are so alike. We only yesterday, my dad recently got his pilot's licence, our dad got his pilot's licence. And there was an article in The Guardian about a guy. Something happened the pilot, I think this was over Florida in a small plane. And the two passengers who had no flying experience how to take over and pilot the plane home. So I texted it to we have like a group family chat. And I texted I said, Dad, all this time, you've pretending this is hard, right? Had a good laugh to myself, Rosemarie texts, do not read, I message this earlier with the exact same comment. Those are the moments where it's like, Oh, my God, or when she's in the house, and you know, the kids do something. And we both turn around and in the exact same tone of voice say the exact same thing. And it is it those are the moments where you go, Hmm, nature versus nurture.
I think that's interesting with kids with a big age gap as well. Because you say you have nothing in common and you're not in the same life stage at any given point. And then you become adults. And then you realise that what formed you like the genes and the environment and the parents in the house and the country in the landscape is so strong,
unbelievably, so strong. I mean, even silly things like, you know, we both love a good Pong. Right? So we sit around and like the things that make you laugh as well, I think are so obscure, and so linked, you know, you wouldn't have been in the same room necessarily hearing these jokes, but they obviously weren't. We're, you know, threads of humour in your family that now resonate years later. And nobody else everyone else is like, what what are they even like, that's not funny. Or maybe we just think we're funny, and we're not.
I think you're funny. Because you said that you're definitely the favourite and it's acknowledged that you're just like your mum, and she had to sort of put up with that when she was growing up. Do you? Do you feel like the favourite rosemary?
No, definitely think beers? No, I know, I do feel like the favourite. We, we kind of we kind of talked about this a lot. I think being the youngest, and especially younger, by kind of six years, I was definitely doted on as a child. And then I think actually like not to make light of it. But suffering from depression is a good one for getting extra sympathy and care from your parents. So I think they definitely have felt like they've had to look after me a bit more than like Beatrice moved away and was very independent. And I wasn't.
Okay, I see you,
too. weeks after I graduated, I left and I was 2122. So she would have been 1314. And I went to Italy, and I used to come back then. And you know, for anybody who's lived abroad, I think there's this common experience of you come home. And you know, there are great moments of it. But you expect that everybody else is going to be equally excited to see you as you are to see them. And in fact, they have their normal lives in their normal day to day. And I would be so excited about coming home going to do this going to see RoseMarie, we're going to hang out, we're going to and remember one trip, I came home and I was like, What are we going to do? She was well, I don't know about you. But I promised I'd bring so and so's cousin to the mall. So I'll be gone for five hours, I bring somebody else to the beach. And I'll be gone for three days and I'll bring somebody else so I might see you on the Friday. And this really bothered me. You know, this really rankled and I remember saying to my dad, like what is you know, what am I going to do? What are we going to do? She doesn't want to hang out with me and he said, You know what, I'm sick. Listen to this. You just need to realise that maybe the two of you will just never be friends. Just accept it and get on with it. It really shocked me and I was so upset that this was even an option. You know, because I was expecting I always wanted us to be good My friends even though we weren't because we just didn't have like we were totally different moments in our lives.
This season of relatively is sponsored by find my past the online home of the 1921 census. The census captures the details of every person in England and Wales on the night of the 19th of June 1921. From those living in poverty to the King George the fifth, to the peculiar goings on at the home of Mr. Arthur Conan Doyle, who appears to be in holding a seance with a collection of mystics and psychics. Is there a well known name in your family history? Where were they? And what were they doing that night? Find out in the 1921 census exclusively available online? At find my past? Talk? koat.uk. So when did you guys become proper friends? And if you were kind of chasing her through school, and she was not really wanting to hang out with her cool teenage friends, when did you become this duo of sisters who love to hang out together?
I would say since I became an adult properly, and I you know, I know kind of on paper, that's a team. For me, it probably was late 20s. But I think I was a bit. I think I resented her for having not wanted to be my friend for all those years. And I think I kind of held a grudge about us. I mean, I wasn't necessarily aware of it at the time. But looking back now I'm like, okay, you know, I think I was a little bit eyebrow towards, and I think that was why
I think it was when she came to visit in when I lived in Italy. And she came over for six weeks, it was probably the first time that we actually spent quality time away from our parents, which I think was also important, because when you're with your parents, you know, you default to that, who I am, when I'm a baby who I was like, even now my parents come over and I find myself, you know, going, I just went to like, I can't believe they did that, you know, stuff that doesn't bother me when I'm being the adults. But when I'm reverting to the child, you know, those those things come to the fore again.
And then really since I moved, so I moved to the US in March of 2020. Spectacular time. Yeah. And it's really only since then that we've become, or I suppose that I've realised how close we were and I've realised how important she is to me. And you know, I hope vice versa. But I think before then, because she was so far away, he kind of I really try not to want what I can't have or to think about what I can't have. So I think I kind of tried to keep a distance from her in a way because I was like, well, she lives 1000s of miles away, she's never moving home. I'm never moving over to her or so I thought. So there's no point in kind of wishing that we were best friends, because then I'll just miss it. You know what I mean? Like, then I'll be sad that we can't be because we're not together and we're in a different timezone it's difficult to connect. Whereas now that I'm here, I mean, she's like, the best friend I've ever had, you know, in the sense of we've seen each other so often we talk so often we talk about everything. You know, we're we're closer than I ever would have imagined we we could or would be.
She said that maybe she thought she presented you when you were an adult and with the big age gap. And because she had this sort of memories of not really being wanted when you were a teenager, and she was an annoying little sister. And then it was just such bliss when you became, you know, proper adults and proper friends.
I always think it's hard to have two kids, because you have like two extremes. Whereas when you have three kids, you have two people to compare yourself to, you know, well, I could be good at maths, but one of them is maybe amazing, but the other ones not amazing. So it's like every there's kind of a balance to, you know, to play out among three people or one. But two is hard because one person is always either better or worse at something. Yeah, versus I can bigger families, everybody's kind of an amalgamation of different traits and skills. But we have very different priorities. You know, and I think she felt very competitive, I think about careers, because in her mind, I left Ireland and had a very glamorous career like not necessarily about how much you paid or who you know, but it was like, my parents were very excited on my behalf. And that was a good seven years old for her. So there's always this kind of what am What am I doing? Is it living up to it in her mind? Yeah. And then she also had a lot of struggles with depression that she's very open about finish talks about it a lot. That's kind of hard when especially my parents did not necessarily understand depression. So that that was a big struggle in our entire like, within our entire family dynamic.
Yeah, it upsets the system, doesn't it something like that, when it's not understood? Well, by parts of it, it's, it's quite dividing,
I think it is. It is.
When I was talking to Beatrice rosemary, she talked about your depression and how that affected you and also how that affected your relationship as sisters. I wonder if you could sort of tell me from your point of view, what what that has been like.
I don't think that affected our relationship. I don't know. I was diagnosed when I was 2324. I think and I've been kind of on and off medication since then. I don't know necessarily that that this is specific to our relationship as sisters, but it made my relationships with a lot of people difficult because there were a lot of times where I just didn't want to engage with anything the cuz I just didn't feel up to it, I think a lot of the time that can come off as, oh, you're being lazy, or you're not making an effort or, you know, you just never wanna hang out with me or whatever it is,
for the person who's not depressed, it's hard to and for the person who is depressed, it's hard to pick apart. Which of these emotions is depression, and which of these is just me being in a bad mood? You know, it's hard to have that empathy the whole time, even though obviously, it's not happening to you. But it's hard to go off. She's making a big deal out of this. But I should give her the benefit of the doubt because she is depressed. And then does it become this other thing is the debate we had for many years does it become then kind of the excuse? And that was that was some of the dynamic in our family that my mom, I think struggled the most with understanding that this is a chemical imbalance, it's not a choice.
And definitely there are some times when I was being lazy didn't mean so it's hard, because like, everybody has moments where you're just being lazy, or you just don't want to do something, or, you know, you kind of said you do something with somebody, and you suddenly like, Oh, I'm tired. And it's, you know, it's been a long week. But then there are other kind of debilitating moments where you're like, I literally cannot imagine leaving the house or I cannot imagine getting out of bed or whatever it was.
I think it's still it still is hard, you know, but there was a lot of especially because I was abroad, there was a lot of communication behind the scenes, manoeuvring making sure Rosemarie was okay.
I mean, I think I think as well, like in the early days, I didn't really know what was going on. So it wasn't something that I could necessarily put into words and explain exactly. You know, how I was feeling I just knew I was feeling a bit shit. And I probably ended up taking that out on people in ways that weren't particularly fair or generous.
For mom, I think I think it was hard because it's a different day. Now, you know, mental health is so much more freely spoken about, and yet still extremely stigmatised. But that was 20 years ago, sorry, it was me 15 years ago. Our mom is such a positive person, like I don't She's actually just like my, my own eight year old. I mean, be like, she just inserted a bit of herself into a moment of the trips. God bless him like, you're like a 72 year old woman. But she like she wakes up in the morning, she's like, Good morning, when you're up, you're up, get on with it, that happens. Don't worry about it. There's not a lot of kind of, you know, analysis. Now, that's not to say she doesn't do that behind the scenes. But that's not who she presents in the world, as you know. And I think it's just very hard for her to wrap her head around. That's not everybody's experience of the world. Kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah. And then sometimes it's easier to be the person being cared about than the people doing the caring, especially as siblings. That's something that's come up on this podcast before.
Yeah, I'm sure for the people that who have the problems. It doesn't feel easier, right? No, you know, it's, but but it can. Yeah, but it can build up a lot of resentment, too. I mean, because I think at a certain point, you're going, you know, all you do is care about that person. What about me? You know, I mean, I'm not saying that necessarily for myself, although I'm sure there I can't remember them now. But I'm sure there have been moments of like, okay, yeah, okay. Well, you know, I get that she's depressed. But are you ever going to look over here at me?
Yeah. But and as you say, exacerbated by having just to
exactly but I mean, it's like, we always, you know, I talk about it with my own kids, it's, the good child gets no attention. I mean, the well behaved that no problem, the low problem child, you have to be really conscious of that too, because you don't want to punish people for being low maintenance.
So how would you describe Rosemary's character?
I think she's very action oriented. Is that is that a characteristic? Or is that just an action I can be?
I frequently get very kind of overwhelmed maybe is not the precise word I'm looking for. But with her incredible curiosity, for life, and for, you know, she'll come across an article and then find one word in it. That's particularly interesting in the next thing, you know, she'll be reading a book about, like ornithology, or you know, not exactly that's kind of a bad example, but
I'm not gonna test on her, but
I don't know how she would characterise me. I'm kind of like, I think she would be nicer about me than I would be about myself. So so in a way, I'd be like, Oh, would she call me lazy, but she would never use that word. So I actually don't know what she was about me.
I do think she spends probably, maybe not so much now that she has her baby. But like, for the first 35 years of her life, a lot of time reflecting on herself, for good or for bad. Like it's what makes her a good writer, but it's also the kind of tips into insecurity, you know, but she's also very competent. She's like, more confident than I am like, she stand up in front of a group of people and talk about any topic under the sun.
She says she doesn't have very many boundaries. She'll share anything with anybody.
Correct? Correct.
I remember being I remember being sent away from the dinner table one time because I randomly just piped up and said, Did you know A pig's orgasm lasts like however long, seven minutes or something. And I was literally sent to my room and I was like, I don't know why that's so bad, but it's just me. probably like, Yeah, I think that's probably like quite quite an Irish Catholic, like, do we don't talk about sex, especially at the table,
especially pig sex.
I mean, fair, you know, I think though there really is like, I was only talking about this, my husband, like, there really is such a broader leeway for the second child, the fact that, you know, she was even still in the house after that, like that would never I mean, I can't even ever imagine that I would have said it. But the be it never would have been remotely tolerated. That would have been a weeks long punishment. But I mean, by now my mom is so worn down by all of these talks of, you know, bodily functions and sexual mannerisms, etc, that she kind of just rolls her eyes and says, Oh, rosemary, but, you know, it's the shame of it's the shame of her life.
It's funny when you're like that, because I sort of am too. And Kirsten O'Brien, who came on this podcast said that a therapist diagnosed her as an early discloser. So she'd go up to somebody be like, Hi, Hi. I've had terrible tummy trouble this morning. I'm nice to meet you kind of thing. And I thought, yeah, I identify with that. It's all all or nothing.
Oh, that's interesting. I've never heard that term before an early discloser. Yeah, I'd say probably on that person as well.
How could you wind her up? Still? Dress her buttoned poor
rosemary. God bless her is, is extremely gullible is the wrong word. But like, she'll make a statement about something that sounds amazing. I'll say that sounds terrible. And she'll say, does it? Does it sound terrible? No, obviously not. So you can really not so much wind throw, but you can definitely lead her down the garden path very easily. And then at the end, she'll say this, you know, I feel like I'm committing to something kind of ridiculous here. And you're like, Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about. This is ridiculous. So she gets kind of annoyed by that. Oh,
I mean, there are several ways. If I in any way bring up the fact that during her thesis year, she was like, quite unhinged. She gets really annoyed and is like, you guys just invented this. I was fine. You know, you've talked about this entrepreneur. What was quite an interesting
though, comment. I mean, I don't know that I went completely mad. I got broken up with by text by my boyfriend, like three months before I was graduating. And then I had, like, you know, I don't know that I had a tonne of sympathy at home, and I had a lot of clothes to make. And I played a lot of sad music on repeat a top volume.
Seems legit to me. I
mean, as you do,
or actually, when she gets annoyed, I'm like, this happens to me too. But it doesn't annoy me as much when she gets annoyed her forehead moves back an entire inch. And if you kind of pointed it like, oh, you know, then she'll be like, shut up.
You mean like a human always goes?
Yeah. Yeah, her forehead goes from totally normal to Helena Bonham, Carter and Alice in Wonderland.
Brilliant reference. I know. Well, so this podcast is all about as we've been discussing, like the family stories in your own nuclear family, but this season of the podcast is sponsored by find my path to family history, people. And they have looked into your family history that goes back like really quite a long way. I've got about five pages of research, which I will send you which will be lovely to look at. But I just wanted to tell one little story if that's okay about somebody in your family that I hope you don't know too much about.
Wow, we're cool. And I'm excited and also worried.
No, it's um, I think you gave the Find My past people the name Philip McCabe. Is that right?
He is both our dad and our grandfather. Okay.
So Philip McCabe, it says here descends from a strong Irish heritage on both his paternal and maternal sides. His mother's father, which I love all of this, and there's pictures and everything to support it. Henry Lytton. Do you know anything about Henry litens? Ah, near where he worked. When I was a working man, he worked at the Guinness brewery. So back in 1910, and 1911, he also represented which is brilliant because there's a photo of the cricket and football teams of the Guinness brewery in Dublin.
Oh, hilarious. That's actually really interesting because our parents house is now right next to the cemetery where Arthur Guinness is buried. So Guinness links abound.
And what about your family? I want to talk more about this when you were back together. But what about your parents? The fact that Rosemarie then joined you over in the States and you are their two children?
Yeah, I think that's really hard for them. So, you know, like I said, my, my mom comes from a big family and they spend a huge amount of time together like they were our best friends. Growing up my cousin's, you know, we spent all of our time together, we spent Christmas day together every holiday together. Every weekend, my mom's over one of my cousin's houses today. Just you know, seeing how she is. And we've talked about what they move over here, obviously, visas aside, etc. And then I think it's hard to leave your own friends and her sibling group, you know, because her family is still all alive and well, and actually, very few of our extended family did emigrate. But I think it's really hard for them now because I think you look around and if my Mum My mum likes to likes to cheer up any occasion by saying, what's it all about? You know, so I think she, you know, she is doing a lot of that now like, what's it all about? You have these kids and, and it was always quite selfishly, a great reassurance to me. And it was a great easing of my own guilt to know that Rosemarie was there if anything happened. And now I worry about like, what if, I mean, at the same time, it was very selfish, because you know, if something does happen, she's there to take care of it. And I don't have to necessarily fly over immediately or take time off work or, you know, and eventually when they do, you know, die like everybody well, and how you know, who's going to take care of the house? How are we going to sort out the furniture, all these ridiculous, but I mean, also, we joke because we actually had a bad last time. How long will it take mom to talk about her funeral? When she gets off the plane? She's always talking about her funeral.
She got the dossier, that sort of instruction,
Christmas songs.
Christmas songs at a funeral. But yes, she loves them.
Well, that's a choice then. Absolutely, exactly. That's true. And when you think about yourself living in America in America now as you do together, do you imagine this is where you guys are gonna grow old together as sisters?
Yeah, I feel like Rosemarie has ruined that for me, because my plan was always to go back. Oh, I see.
I was I was just about to say nicely that. I hope that wherever we are, we end up growing, growing all together, whether that's here or there. I suppose for me, it's it's more likely going to be here. Because not just that I'm here with my husband and our baby now, but that he also has his, you know, our two boys from his previous marriage, and we won't be going anywhere. Particularly far from them anyway. Yeah,
it makes you question because I definitely wanted to go home because my family was at home now that we're both here. I think it's more than my parents want to come here, like we talked about earlier on. And I also wonder if I went home, then what you know, then Rosemarie would be here. Is that a win? I don't want to go back to Ireland, then how my kids will move back to the States because they feel more American than Irish either. So I feel like probably, yes, we are here. But whether we'll be able to stay in Fort Wayne together or whether we'll end up in different parts of the states. You know, TBD.
It's quite an unusual story sort of emigrating and then your sister coming along with you or not one that I've heard of, and it's a lovely one, but it seems quite unusual. You're so lucky,
because what you're trying to say is it is lovely. It is lovely. I mean, there are moments writing God can I not do anything by myself, but it is lovely.
This harks back to me being a kid being like I just want to play with Beatrice. I've just been chasing her around for my own life. She has enough
thank you to Rosemarie and Beatrice to see some really sweet pictures of them as kids and to find a link to their podcast, head to our web page, relatively podcast.com.
She used to call me beetroot, which was very unflattering because I do have a propensity to going extremely red when doing any activity whatsoever.
I'd also like to say a huge thank you to our sponsors for this season of relatively fine my past for digging into their extraordinary records and uncovering surprising and often revelatory family stories, some of which you've heard today, find my past is the only place online where you can access the 1921 census. So if you want to start your family tree or add colour to what you know already, then find my past or co.uk is the place to do it. If you've enjoyed this episode, there are other chats with drag queen Davina de campo, Esther Branson, shakey Khanna, Mason, and lots more at relatively podcast.com please do rate and review this podcast or if you've really enjoyed it, how about sharing it with your brother or sister thank you to Tony to tickle him for letting us use her amazing song. This is a pocket Production and Sound Design is by Nick Carter at MC sonics.com
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