Corrections, and so may I have a motion? Are there any other corrections that need to I have a motion to receive
and file the bid
as submitted. So moved second. Hi. Who? Cheery
mind,
since we are nearing the end of our wonderful time together, that should be able to finalize, and I'd like to open up this meeting to public comment as section. Limit your comments to two minutes per person. We will not allow additional public comments during the meeting unless requested by myself, Chairperson or Commissioner. As members of the public, you're always welcome to submit additional questions and comments to the TRNC invite before and after our needs with that series one from the public that would like to make public comments
and then so stay tuned. As I said, as I said, city council going once, three times, and it's done wonderful, but we can get right into the next part, and that is, I have confirmed receive confirmation that we will be looking at the same committee on Monday morning.
There. Our presentation is set to begin at 10:20am but I suggest that we get there at 10, and if any of the going public wants to make public comments.
Yes, they find it. So
moving into the draft presentation, as I said, I worked all the way through three hours in the morning, put this together. Have Been working on it? Well,
actually, I'm going to go to My actual PowerPoint. I
You did so I'm trying To find a slide viewer.
I'm okay, oh, I'm seeing something different on my screen. Yeah, all right.
Okay, and this starts on the page for the benefit of the public, sir, yes. If you want to follow along, you can follow along. There's a hard copy over on? 14, page, 15.
So one comment that I will make, I am going to do, I think it's necessary to
be consistent with our terminology, going from toll commission to the actual term and the ordinance, which is towing rate commission. You. And then I just realized that they referred to a hot rates with fees. So I will go back to everything, say total fees as opposed to rates, so you're consistent. Okay,
try to use some of your pictures. Take it out. Up table, content, content. So I thought we talked a little bit about the commission,
and I'll start off the presentation. I would like all five of us to be up at the table, if not on that first row, that first go the table of contents. So I tried to organize it. Was talking
about the ED towing and empower unit the police authorized tours then get into before we got into the proposed toll rates, just mention the city standards. Get into the proposed toll rates. And again, you may see on some of the slides where I started changing it to say towing fees, and that will be towing fees not sold on it other than notable trc items, I couldn't come up with a good title. So if you go, it's something different. As
we go to question for the police officer as toes going through the PowerPoint, I understand what that bullet point is, is that it's a consensual, non consensual, but it almost appears, at face value, that the three types of toes would be PT, IU and PDS.
I was saying to you that, and then I realized, when I got to that page, that that's not what it meant. So there's producing the three types of tools, and you got to get to that page to see what they are, and being that as a higher level bullet, that they are bullets within themselves that describe something else later. So, but I had to say, if it makes sense, when I was
saying, should that
be a different just not three types of toes, but types of what? Because I think here, this was an opportunity to kind of distinguish between police authorized tolls versus private tolls. And
so police authorized toes would not and three types of toes would not go under police authorized toes because the three types of toes are the private property, non consensual, the police authorized toes in the consensual so police authorized codes are its own categories under three types of toes do
not fall under police under your upper head, please authorized code, but the three types are Not three types of police authorized, not necessarily,
right, yeah.
So maybe that should be
three types of toes. Could be the headache. Well,
well,
no towing in the city, city codes or something. It's well, let's get there when we can talk about, okay,
I was this is good. I think I understand it's right, but I think it being on top, I know it's a bullet separate bullet point, it maybe should be the third bullet point, yeah,
put on the bottom, then wouldn't be. They're
not looking for the third category, Yep,
yeah. I think
that works. I got you or we take out three, yeah, that's
what I was kind of, yeah. And I'd like
to say this presentation, this is a
lot of complex information we understand. We talked about it for weeks, and the presentation is really, really
pretty. I try to give what we need to get out. You know, it's difficult because we have so many mistakes. But
again, if you see anything glaring, okay, so about the commission.
I will have proofread Okay. Okay, any comments there, and for me, I see
things misaligned.
Shannon will tell you that I see we have some standards like two spaces between censuses and six points between the blood and so
I usually one inch margins
the space between that last line and affinity to act. It's not, you know, okay.
The goal is, though I need to get this released to city council. My goal is before in the business tomorrow, so that they have all weekend to look at it right. Okay. Here I would say we hear 2024 tournament commissioners. This is where I will introduce will turn it over to each one of you to introduce yourself. And the way it's lined up is according to how it was just lined up in
the ordinance in terms of title, but why review fees now, between that 20 fees. Now, is there anything in here
on the lessons, if you want to circle eight per day, neutral Space.
Going Yes, it covers The period.
Yeah, okay, anything.
All of you, anything else, anything that you want to add? Take out by audience. Let
me know, I think, and you're accurate in what you say about 2011 seconds last bullet, but it looks like it's been coming steadily down to the untrained eye. And we know it went well about we went up to $6 in 2022 so I don't want them to think it's been coming steadily down the price of fuel because it is not, well,
that's Michigan. It was never $6
well, it's it went up very close to $6 and diesel. Am I correct? No, I'm just saying 2022, Spike ran
into one, and so
it said, the the purchase price of the inflation adjusted price at $6
inflation adjusted,
you gave this diesel? Yeah,
I have both. Both.
No, I think it's important. It's important. But show the increase never went up, because that's the first thing on people's mind is, yes, we don't want to, you know, I can't, oh, it's just high, high,
high. I mean, we can just say, I mean, it wasn't coming steadily down, because that sounds like they
had the same spike, but the diesel was a higher price, right? Yeah,
they know to be fair, to have an average of what it was from 2011 to now.
I mean, what it should be, kind. To start it here. And as we saw on the graph, I'm trying to find,
unfortunately, it's about $4.20 23 as well.
I mean, some of these things, I will add some comments here, like for this, I can't note that, even though you know, do know that inspired over this 10 year period. Not sure if I have,
okay, see, that's gas. Yes, this is diesel. I probably did not attach it here. I do
remember having a
statute here, I do remember having pegy Is that
in your first one, and I
kept it in the second pardon, all of your trucks, diesel engines.
Too much wear and tear for gas.
Yeah, regular gas.
So I will put this in this one,
just so they don't know. I mean, they've just been coming down right now. I
diesel price finally exceeded gas prices. Diesel should be cheaper.
Regulations said this is adjusted for inflation, yes, good.
Yes. Thank
you. Any. Other
comments, and I'm sure
that council members will ask a follow up question, and I will be quick to turn it over to the authoritative parts. I would just suggest, you know, well, yeah, people agree, try to answer the question, which I've had to learn, don't give them more than what they asked for, right? Okay, any comments questions?
I'm sure that they will want to know what municipalities I
think we should,
I think we should talk. I don't think so they're gonna say, Well, did you look at like writing in writing, or say, Well, did you look at this city, this city, right? But we can say we focused on the Detroit Metropolitan Statistical Area.
Requests to see. Well, yeah,
West. The reason I'm saying this is I just
did a fee study presentation. Include that our proposal is consistent and in line with this
other municipality
I'm just talking about, I mentioned, like you said, to include, we included nationwide and cities. Wanted to talk about, in some cases, this data was hard to obtain because it's not always posted. You know,
talk about that a little
bit. Now, so here I was just so many three types of tools. Well, it's not for the section for on the first page, really, where that should be is maybe just towing in the
city, that is the three types of
towing into joy.
So. Okay, in regards to that, consensual Towing is not under the authority of the Tory commission, exactly.
And I just wanted to go in talking about the for the public, and this is where we can say consensual towing. And this is verbally and
this is what I say. This is for the City Council, as much as anything, because they were asking me about non police authorized questions. They need to be educated, and they don't all know what police authorized telling
is disclaimer, to say that our focus on scope of work is limited to police authorized tone, right? Because when you go to Chicago, how they operate, you start getting to non consensual and consensual point. Gonna ask you some questions relating to that. I cannot answer somebody said that $600 for a total dollar block. So if we can just
but is there ever a case where consensual tolling is under you, please? So I could put an asterisk here,
so directly we they don't report to us, but I serve as the toll rate monitor for the police department. So they're complaint of fraud or complaint of violation of city ordinance that my team investigates that. So in that regard, the police function is relevant, but not as a day to day towing function to the Other staff scope.
We'd have a function more like BC does with businesses.
So on behalf of ashb, and how do I say this,
if there's personal activity,
if activity or criminal
AAA towing, I'm calling my insurance or my AAA again, But
you showing that relationship, though, so he's a monitor
fraud. Well,
a price given to a customer, a different price is charged and then not, not a crime. It's actually a civil infraction, civil fraction of the smear of the leaders. But what we call vulture token, not solicit a torture government cannot solicit a total CMX EPD is those are guided those complaints, right? So technically, it's not a crime, but it is a police
related investigation for consensual tolls. Now is that for charter or for your operations manual where you provide this kind of monitoring oversight that
would be our operations,
because any police officer, sworn police officer, can enforce the city the city ordinance in the state law officer the same, basically soliciting toes at the scenes, because we're specialized part of towing as part of this standard operating procedure that comes through the towing event.
So I'm saying something like, while DPD is not directly responsible for consensual towing. They do retain authoritative oversight on law enforcement
authority. I
think law enforcement oversight overall. I'm
sorry, I can't I
because I can see that opening up a whole can of worms
for you. Or do we not want to address that unless they ask? Is too complex?
I think it is. It
becomes easier for me to explain it, as opposed to putting
out there, please. Yeah.
I. I'll turn it over,
and then we get into police authorized codes. Is there anything you want me to take out, add to on this item? And the reason I put here, I put, added the Michigan information as well, because that's relevant to your operations in terms of the city is responsible for that comes to rent from
sort of four bullet to and I don't even attend it. But of course, you don't have impound unit here. I The fourth bullet impound unit may was not called impound unit originally, or was it always
originally? There were two parts of towing with the van and vehicle Task Force and the tow desk. And so when we created the towing unit in 2018 the no sin all became part of PTI, the police
towing because, only, only reason, I said, was because she has, she has,
for continuity, the deed I would either describe as DPD.
So
here's one. Year.
So what is it going to be before bullet, I would need to add towing and impound.
Interesting, because understanding after that you said, when the city began expanding to include both toy and Empire, me, but being that you got DP, T, I U, there, that's where it's introduced. Yeah, and
then, like the acronym here.
So, yeah,
what acronym do you use? D,
P, T, i, u, okay. So I would say that word rule that I would say that the PTI, the police toying in on unit was established in 2018 Okay,
and then down here, just PTI, okay, a lot of orders.
Suppose again, if you feel so inclined, you know based on those that must
good, yep, it's five, right? Five right now, currently,
yes, okay,
good, yes, I know this is for his first time seeing
it. No, this is my version from
Let's deal with that many. Is
the
one in the presentation. But I'm just saying, okay, that question, what is the criteria that was used in selecting the five PhDs?
So work goes out within the contract, and so the companies that meet that criteria,
we have A capacity of expanding new tools, one to
introduce
Sheriff
customer. Okay, so?
And if they ask, I will be able to say, I think I have it somewhere. Current contracts are 2021, 2027 or
20 to 2027, I it.
Okay, bonding and insurance, I do want them to understand. But that response from the OPC and operation Council, but there's their position on that. Is what they did not take
informally. No,
my first, you know, I did the big presentation at dopc. I'm something that you all know, if it comes up, I did the presentation at Bo PC when we first heard me, and shared with them the requirements under the charter that says they are still responsible for setting The Standards providing insurance for police, don't that's, that's really the main thing that was left with the OPC, because they took the procurement out and all that other stuff. Well,
our wonderful
Corporation Counsel decided to get involved, and he sent a letter that blasted me. I mean, oh, my God. It blasted me. It blasted the legislative policy division. Mind you, I had already conferred with OPD
he, I mean, he just went off. Told me I didn't know what I was talking about, crazy.
And so LPD did respond to cooperation counseling and let him know, no the AG, he was quoting right, and under the current Charter, the OPC still has that responsibility. So I sent a follow up letter to Corporation Counsel. The only thing is Corporation Counsel put it out to the world, and LPD decided to take the high road and only respond to him to
a better League. So you're right.
And so I did send a follow up letter based on that response, just asking them to confirm one way or the other, but just say yes or no, but
not his response. His initial response regarding their their responsibility, was that it was out of their hands. Isn't
that the charter that my interpretation, mine and and David, interpretation of the current charter, said that they didn't have any responsibility. And it's very clear, and that's
where he's stated, meaning that he, he didn't acknowledge the lpds comeback. That's it. His thing is, no, they are responsible. Clearly, he said they're
not. And then the other things he tried to quote that, that he quoted some others someplace, saying it negated the charter. He was an attorney. Says, no, no, no, no, he did not. So I would just put it out there that we assume no change to the standards based on the response, no final response,
because he responded, and there's the final response. Because he might say, I told you, right, but no, but he did not communicate with our last request. So
if there is, if, if the question is raised, if there's a dispute on this, do you think they're going to ask for, I'm just saying, devil's advocate? Could they ask for an objective legal opinion on
this? Then they have one
from the LPD, so if
there's a dispute between led you and legal
corporation, they could go to Corporation Counsel and kind of say, give, give me an answer, in light of because LPD, David is Council's attorney, and so he does play a kind of fine in line with me. And my thing is, I hear from Corporation Counsel all the time. It's about it. How does he say he is my attorney, everybody's attorney. I. And so I was made because of I've asked for this response, as well as some
other lessons. I'll change that. No final response, and kind of realign that line. Okay, any other comments, questions. And the reason, I'll preface this by saying we looked at these because they are, could be impacts, inputs to the Coinbase.
I Madam
Chair. Yes, I know what you're saying. What I was going to say is, instead of like seeing like we're trying to show the board of police commissioners, cooperation, Council is where you say, source? Can we say? Subject to change based on the recommendation of the board of Police Commission and Corporation.
The only thing I may add to here is which is no ordinance. They're responsible on,
okay, thank
you with the license and then, license,
sensitive source on that marijuana sites up there.
That's what he told
me. Do you need the marijuana sites? Because is
relevant. Sometimes they grow facilities and stuff. Anyways, those are related to loss, the right word, because you just had that
marijuana. The right word,
because we just had that marijuana, and I thought the
smoker, but is it related to the total rate Commission?
It should be, because when I checked my property misdemeanation, this is under one category, yeah. Okay. Now the matter of business is new. Now, sometimes when you close some of the places down, might have to go some vehicles or whatever, depending and stuff like that, or when they are growth facilities or people that are operating with our license. But, I mean, I don't think it should matter if you take a marijuana house, you know, but this is one standard in our fee study. Yeah, some category.
So what I'll do is I'll do like on the others, I'll move it down and have a couple of notes, right? Since these licenses implements cover these following, something like that, I'll cite the ordinance and no change, Correct, okay,
all right now to the good stuff.
Do. And again, this
time is this good? I think this sets the discussions around these are the things that we've looked at. These are the things that change look at, going from the current to the I mean, going from current
to our proposal right out of town, like in the state, for like, just out of town. So
the out of town retrievals are so there's the times where we had to go out of state and retrieve a vehicle outside their bound crime. We send our trucks, but that being said, you never know the circumstances. So having a mileage fee in there as the old voting commission did, I think is still I think it's too much to ask for our contractors to take one of their trucks and drive
them out of town. Security.
So I will avoid that at all costs. Refer to outside the Detroit as well it could. But even those we we try to use the pdiv trucks, all right,
motorized vehicles and recreational vehicles, is everything
in here as we'll just remember if they asked why the change? We've got all the info on that and why it's, you know, an authority.
It white authority. One of the things I know, even though they don't want to sit down and figure it out, is they don't ask you, what is the percentage increase I know they will be asking even though it's there. If you take the 125 or 2.5 25, maybe the right column is nothing.
You're right. It's not so many calls. Yeah,
that's one small column. Well,
it question.
I said, maybe just, just say, say what it is. Okay,
verbalize it.
Yes. I just wanted to ask if it can be clarified that that is a second truck, not a second toe. So second toe would kind of refer to hooking the vehicle second time, or something like that. But the second to actually a second truck,
second truck, just
for clarification, two trucks used for the same choice, okay? Because
it is can is confusing, tow truck going out back, or is it? It's actually two trucks?
The ordinance also speaks of one fee per hook. So I think with our audience, not we weren't we are now all experts. It's complicated. In reality, of any second truck would convey the message
for me, oh, yeah, there's a $75 for light duty
second truck. So it does say yeah, 75
Oh, and there's one for heavy duty as well. The only one that does not have a alright. So
this should be okay. So right now it should be changed to truck. And you say,
like, do we set the truck? Current rate is 75
there is none green and greens one committee. Anyway,
the reason I only want to maybe talk about, I don't, I don't think it would be good to show pieces on the screen, because you talking a big increase, just visually from heaven. Do Now what it might be appropriate to talk about it, right? I mean, they're going to see it is here the next screen, because on the next screen, we can kind of give them an idea of why.
You know, here we can talk about lighting details. Includes motorized vehicles like say something that this is your average citizen and the increase is $100
maybe not even put it like that. When you start putting it out there, they can do the math, right? Yeah, I don't think I only just put it in and tell them why. You know, distinguish between like medium and negative toes.
There anything else? Should add on the screen. Now, I did put this in here about DVD not taking a position. I don't know if that's good or bad. Is it going to open up a can of worms? Do you need it? What? What do you think it's basically,
I don't know that we need to categorically state it, but if city council wants why you need to take a position, like,
maybe they should position? Oh, yeah.
Well, that's what I said, and as appropriate. So are you putting it in there? It's going to open up, right? But is it for the sake of transparency, the right thing to do
in 2013 did you get questions about that?
That was a whole different councilman, right? I'm just curious, because if it's a consistent position,
but I don't think police didn't take a position. Did they
did they did this council? Anyone on the council say, what
was the police position?
I mean, I could, I can't recall, really, but, but as it being an issue? No, I don't recall that any type of issue. I
don't think it's an issue, but it was, it was important to me to know that. I mean, it makes sense.
No, yeah. I mean, you have it there and you bring it out now, but to go try to recall what was, you know, anybody called it out? If council did, I do not recall. The police did not take a position. And there was just no renowned issue for maybe, I'll
say, on any of the fees proposed by the police authorized tours. I think that's that's important to know that they're not weighing in on your proposed fees,
but it's their proposal. See, this is where you're going to open, in my opinion, a can of worms, because they have towers they employ. They have trucks they buy.
That's what I'm saying. Everybody's fee. Yeah, we can't charge different rates. They can't charge different everybody's right. So that's why I brought that up earlier. That's,
well, that is, that's what you mean. Police have chosen to do, is to allow the tolling professions. Well, we don't take
so we we need anything purchased for the city, for the police department. It goes out for quote without a bid. We don't negotiate the price. That's not our position. Our position is facilitate the actions that are covered by certain by policy. So it's we, that's not really our position. So big question,
if you just speak to it, I didn't
want to sound like I'm talking to circles, but not. It is our job that we that we oversee, we regulate the practice, but it's really seeking City Council's prerogative to take the recommendation of the private tours into consideration of what's hitting the rates in order third party that we are not a company, that we don't make a profit. We're not looking to make a profit. Never will. Tolling is an essential function that we try to do efficiently. So that gets into a long could get into a long conversation, but if they want it, they entitled to. But I don't know that categorically stating is necessary. That may just be a intellectual curiosity question that comes up, why don't you take a position? So,
yeah, yeah. Say, let them ask. If they want to ask, what individual positions are, what I'm asking, they
probably, probably won't
ask. I mean, these are we have to remember, these are proposed. They have to approve what they're going to approve we're proposing because of cost increases, because of a 10 year plan, because of a lot of variables. So let them
decide anything else the proposal is a ways and majority vote of the 2024 trc commission. Do
Oh, trailers and can't.
Appreciate that. Repeat that to them.
Let them know.
Just come up with flat rate overnight. That was due diligence on steroids.
No offense to PhDs, but y'all coming when you came in with that extra, I think
we were listening to what everybody was trying, to try to help trailer weight
service,
predicated on how many axles they have in the weight of the axles, fairness, say, Troy, it's,
it's, so
that's where the axle comes in, because it goes back to the grocery weight. So there was a logical category, right? So
they've got a measure taken. I think this is good, especially, you know, we went through the weights, the currencies, we're good, except
one thing can be give and
take the average. Okay.
Now, did I state this correctly? What's in this category? Oh, and for the benefit of the public, I ask you, please, please, please, do not publish any of these numbers. We have not presented it to city council. It would be supposed meeting. It would she will be just devastated. If you release any of these numbers prior to us presented at the City Council, I will invite you to the presentation Monday. She's smiling.
Well, the question I have is, there they post real time. Yeah, so these
rates now,
these are all mediums.
Can you, I can try to leave please
to city council. If this were to get out and get leaked out, it's going to be bad. So when you say media, that media is Monday, I'm
not saying me. I'm saying this again. Yeah, the media people, who I know they were not introduced when we first started. What is she from the media, too. We're with outliers.
We're all civic documenters. Were you at the last meeting? Outlier was at the last meeting. We cover various civic documenters will be at various meetings. So
we, as we said this at the last meeting, we asked you gently, to please not publish these numbers.
Yeah, and they're recording, that's what I'm saying. You know, also recording the
coming Yes,
right. So I was gonna point out who was present and who was who was recording.
So I guess, under my authority, I'm gonna ask that you stop recording. You stop taking notes. This is not being presented to our city council. It will be devastating if this gets out before they even had a chance to look at it and review it. That's not the intent of this. You're welcome to come Monday, when it's all public and have added city council. So you understand this is just us finalizing our
presentation. Yeah, no, again, it's something that needs to be announced ahead of time as well. So I mean otherwise,
and perhaps maybe I'll even ask that you step out
of what we're probably going to experience this.
I want to get phone calls, because once I send this to to the public health and safety committee, they will attach this document to the agenda. I'm going to get calls from city council members saying, What the hell is going on? So with that, I'm going to because this meeting is not technically subject to the Open Meetings Act, I'm going to ask that the media step out of the room.
Is, well, I just received the call saying, if they're done with the rates, unless it's closed session, are you guys just gonna close the closed session? Well,
I guess I adjourned to a closed session. I'm not like I said, we are not technically open to Open Meetings. Act. I need to adjourn the public session. I adjourn the public session and go to a close we opened it up per the suggestion, recommendation of the director, but he gave us writing, and I can share that with
you. That all shared that will, that will, that will be helpful for me, if I'm going to be because I'm dealing with some other
pressures, how would you want me to get
into Yeah, why don't we go to Chicago home office?
We should go to Noah, yeah. Noah, outlier, yes, yeah. Noah at double check.
And so I need to adjourn the public session. The timber, 12, 2024, so rage. Commission at 2:11pm, all in hi in.
