The Great Resignation: The Great Opportunity for Your Organization Today - Sally Bryant

6:03PM Nov 5, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Sally Bryant

Keywords:

people

love

leaders

sally

leadership

community

recruit

job

resignation

organization

interview

called

create

grew

opportunity

bryant

podcast

person

becky

talk

Hey, I'm John.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Hey, Becky, Hey, John,

are sitting

like really close

to your like newscaster style right now. But we're not going to let that diminish the fact that we have been waiting for this conversation for several months and counting it down. And I have been so excited to introduce everybody to one of my leadership heroes, if you are looking for somebody, to inspire you, to motivate you to talk about the great hallmarks of incredible leadership, we found, we found the person the person is on the podcast today. It's Sally Bryant, she's the president and CEO of the Brian group. And today we're going to be talking about the great resignation. But I have to back it up a little bit. Because Sally is so incredible. She is so genuine and authentic. And we've had the great privilege of getting to know her over the last six months. And what she's doing with the brand group just based out of Dallas, to recruit and retain, in turn, the entire recruitment industry for nonprofit on its head is nothing short of inspirational because it puts the human and their family at the forefront of the entire process and doing what's best for the person being recruited. And matching that with extraordinary cultures, within organizations. And so Sally has such a fascinating story. And I'm going to let her go into it. But I just want to give everybody a little bit of background about her. She joined the Bryant group in 2007. She's bringing 30 years worth of advancement, management, consulting, recruiting. And she's also got this incredible interesting pairing of sales, and the way that she understands marketing and connection and systems. And so take all of that talent, converge it together. And she loves entrepreneurship. She loves coaching. And so what you're about to get in here, we are going to dive into the great resignation. You know, John and Julie, they're tired of me talking about it. I'm so jazzed about the great what what Sally calls the great opportunity. And so as we're moving into this new era of work and the way that we are going to relook at how we choose where we work, how we pour into missions, we have an expert that's going to guide us on how to find the right people and how to retain them. So with that, Sally, welcome to the podcast. We are so glad you're here.

Thank you, Becky. Thank you, John. Glad to be here. Awesome.

Okay, so I know your story, but most people don't. And I want you to take us back to Eastern Washington and small rural farm where you grew up, and people help people get to know Sally, where you came from, and how this idea of passionate philanthropy and great leadership started.

Thank you, Becky. So yes, I grew up in eastern Washington, and outside of a town of 500 people. The town was St. John. And I've actually gotten in trouble from the people who still live there when I don't actually mention the name of the town. So St. John Washington, push out.

I love that you're on the map.

So yes, I grew up on a wheat farm, and my parents had three girls. And so 50 years ago, when you had three girls, and you were on a farm, it was kind of like, okay, what, where are the boys because we need people to do work. But I love my parents, they were amazing. They had amazing work ethic, they have an amazing work ethic. And so we got to do all the things the quote unquote, right the boys would quote unquote, normally do. And and so I learned the work ethic and sort of grit there. But I also started to learn about philanthropy from my amazing parents. They you can imagine when you grew up on a wheat farm, there were some good years and there were some really lean years. And I watched my parents always, always give away 10% of whatever they had. And the difference that that made and the way that they taught us we actually started working for money paid by my parents on the farm when we were probably seven years old. They would give us in tours during harvest harvest is a really intense time you work six or seven days a week 12 to 14 hours a day. Don't worry, they didn't work us that long when we were seven, but they still gave us opportunities and and just certain jobs that we could do, whether it was around the house or whether it was out in the field. So then when we got paid for doing these jobs, my parents helped us learn how to budget. And at that age, you can imagine budget, right? They made it really simple. We had four categories. So we got to budget part of it for things we want it. So we had a category called want. We had, we had a category called need, and they had us buy some of our own school supplies. So we had to put money away to buy some of our school supplies, we had a category called savings, and that needed to be a certain percentage of the budget. And then there was a category called giving. And we gave 10%. From that first, quote, unquote, job when we were seven years old. And our parents helped us understand that places like our church wouldn't exist without giving. That was the only way that this amazing place we went every week. And these people that were our extended family, that's how we got to do that is by giving and so even when I was giving whatever it was 50 cents, or, you know, whatever it was, I felt like I was making a difference.

I love that because having kids and watching them the pride that they have when they get to have that moment of philanthropy when they get to experience in in the purest form. It there's nothing like it and I do think it plant seeds. For incredible careers like me, I'll look at yours, just how it shaped your life. Okay, so little Sally, keep going. How did you

decide to go to Washington State and when you became a fundraiser, I think that's a great story.

Fantastic. This has a lot to do with why I'm so passionate about leadership. So I went to Washington State University Go Cougs. And I was very fortunate. So I told you about the work. I've always I've actually always love to work. I like being productive. So my last semester of college, I actually took on an internship rather than going to class, I had taken all the classes I needed to take, I just needed some credits. So I negotiated an internship for credit. Well, it just so happened that the internship was in the College of Engineering with the Washington State University Foundation, I did not know what that was. And I was working with some of the what at least they called them. They called them benefactors. So people who had given $100,000 or more. And for whatever reason, they let this 21 year old at that time, call these $100,000 donors and ask them about their story. So I got to talk to these amazing philanthropist and draft their stories for the WSU foundation annual report.

Oh my gosh, I'm seeing it. I have a visual in my mind.

What an amazing opportunity. So that'll lead into literally I graduated at the end of that semester on a Saturday, and they had created an amazing job for me in the College of Engineering. Working with the owners. I started on Monday. So 48 hours after I graduated, I started working at the WSU Foundation. And I had such amazing leadership. I got to learn from one of the business, the industry icons, Connie Kravis, who just recently retired from the University of Washington Foundation. And she just, she was just such an amazing leader. She knew how to help people bond I learned from watching her, she helped to raise up leaders. Well, sometimes when you're young, and you're in your first quote unquote, real job. You don't know what you don't know,

oh, my gosh, I'm feeling this right now. Keep going? No, I

didn't know what I knew she was great. But I didn't know what a great leader she was. I didn't know how great. I had it. So after maybe four years, I took a job in the big city in Seattle. And I in that position, I ran into some leaders who were just the opposite. And especially one in particular where i The stark contrast, I think, just really changed my life. Because it made me realize when a leader is a good leader, a successful leader and authentic leader, it caring leader, how it not only affects the results of the organization, but how it affects every single person on the team, because you're affecting so let me back up for a minute when you're when you're a really great leader. Yes, you're moving your organization forward. You're affecting your community you're affecting, in this case, alumni donors, probably the state, the nation and the world through reasons Search. When you are a leader who is lost in your own insecurities, you're affecting people internally, right? So you're not only affecting that outward, where you're going with the organization, you're affecting people internally, they're taking that home, they're taking home pain, they're taking home, not knowing if they're good enough, they're taking all this stuff home, and then that affects their partner, it affects their their kids, it affects their volunteer work, it affects their place of worship, it affects their friends. So you have this positive, amazing leader affecting an organization from the inside out. And also from the inside in, because people are taking home positivity, then you have insecure leaders who are not only not moving their organizations forward, they're affecting people internally, and that ripple is going out. So you can either have a positive, expanding ripple into the world. Or you can have this negative sort of shrinking ripple into the world. And I, I didn't even know at the time, but I knew something. Something was different. And I was gonna figure out what it was.

i Okay, as you're saying this, and I wonder how many people listening are feeling the same way I am running through my career. And I am pinpointing those incredible leaders that I had that were so empowering and uplifting, and I'm getting flashes of the ones who completely killed the culture creates so much anxiety, we just came off Mental Health Week, and we're talking about how culture affects even your mental health. And I love Sally, that this is where your story really begins. Because yes, it began on that we wheat farm in eastern Washington, but your career started, the moment that you had that aha, of okay, how do I create a business that does nothing more than start to pour really great leaders into organizations so that there are thriving, vibrant communities that, that and you understood the ripple, that it not only serves that organization, it serves families and communities in the entire ecosystem around the organization. So I love that you share that story. And it just also tells me you are so perfectly placed, as the top recruiting firm in our industry specifically for healthcare and higher ed, there is no wonder that you are exactly that because your values are tethered to this notion. And it's just an incredible success story.

You know, y'all put your stake in the ground around recruiting, but also like building into those leaders and surrounding them with support and pushing them to go to their next level through coaching. And I mean, I'll be honest, like, it's not been an industry that I've ever seen, like, where the passion would be, until I met you. And I think the story you talked about, like, I feel it bubbling in my chest of like, the power that can be unlocked. If we can get the right people into the seats to change the world. I mean, we talk about all the time of the podcast, the impact uprising, that's going to take incredible leadership that are healthy, that are in the the spots that have built vibrant cultures, at their homes and in their places of organization. And so I get it, like I see it on you. And I'm like, I know why you want to chase this when you want to wake up and pour your life into this because the legacy that you have created is just phenomenal. So can we kind of lean in to the idea of the great resignation, it's everywhere. Every time I literally open up the news. It's like another story of how many people are leaving and what's happening and people are looking for purpose. And Becky's alluded to this. But we love that you have just positively turned to this and even said this talking about your wheat farm. It was not a bad year, it was a lien year. I noticed I'm like Sally finds the positive in it, you know, like, so I think you've done that with this entire discussion. Would you talk about this? Some of the stats around you know, we here's one that we have that a record breaking 4.3 million workers in the US quit their jobs in August of this year. Shocking. Yeah. What are you seeing and how are you kind of posturing and your perspective and looking at this opportunity?

And please define the great resignation for anyone who may not have ever heard of it?

Well, it did. Right. It depends. So there's been the great resignation. I think Zillow, the the reality website is calling it the great reshuffling. And my understanding because I'm going to talk about it a little bit from the advancement perspective. But my understanding is that during the pandemic, people realized that they didn't need to be part of something that they didn't want to be part of, is going to work painful, right, which usually has to do with leadership, and then they didn't need to do that. And they could live anywhere. So that's the great reshuffling, realizing that they could work remotely. So many, many people have left their jobs. And but I will say that from the advancement perspective, and when I say advancement, that's fundraising, it's marketing, communications, it's all of the things that support philanthropy and make that impact in our communities. So I see this, it's funny that you say I look at it from the positive side, when I first saw those words, the great resignation, it actually just didn't sit right with me. Because there's always a good reason I think why things are happening. And I want to see what's the good in this. So to me, it really is the great opportunity, what what we're seeing in in higher ed in healthcare, frankly, I did not see a lot of people just end mass leaving their jobs. Now, there were a lot of places that needed to cut a lot of people and cut their budgets in the very beginning. And then, interestingly enough, over the last sort of fiscal year, which a lot of times sort of starts and ends in the summer or the fall for these places, they realized that their philanthropy income was the same or better than before, and that they needed that kind of income and support more than ever. So then there's this sort of great rehiring in our profession, people are restarting campaigns or taking campaign capital campaigns off pause. And so they're adding positions. So I immediately was thinking, the opportunity here is amazing. It's amazing. And it's bigger actually, even then our profession because it gives our profession, our profession being philanthropy and the support of organizations that make an impact. So I'm talking about higher education, health care and nonprofit organizations. Our opportunity one of them right now, is we get to take those people who resigned from their corporate jobs, because they weren't happy and show them that there is a place where they can be compensated fairly, okay, maybe not compensated at the level they were before, but compensated fairly and have this intrinsic, valuable job, career place where they can make a difference. People are looking for something different. They're looking for meaning in their life, we get to offer that to them from that, think about the byproduct. We have been talking about diversifying our profession for how many years now?

decades. Okay. What a great

opportunity to say, there are people in finance, in education in sales in an I know, our profession doesn't like the word sales. But if you're in relational sales, the best salespeople are relationship builders. They're, they're not selling you something they're serving your needs. And that's what we're looking for, that will diversify us in everywhere, not just racial diversity, which is really important, but every kind of diversity, because that's how you create the richest tapestry in your team, and the most engaging ideas, the most engaging opportunities and the most impact in your community.

I am so geeked out about this. There's a reason I bring this up every other day. It's because I think of the nonprofit is standing at the end of the aisle, with their arms open saying come on in, come on over, we are ready to embrace you. Because not only are we going to get you know exactly what you just said all of those intrinsic benefits, they're going to bring this create a creativity of thought, innovation, entrepreneurship, the things that again, as we're talking about diversifying our sector, it's not just through the people. It's through the ideas, it's through tech, it's through way we can automate. It's gonna level up our game like never before. And you are the one that I started reading your blog post. And I really encourage everybody to go find Sally on LinkedIn because she has incredible thought leadership and blog post. But you had a series on the great resignation and it really rewired my brain about this is our opportunity. It is the great opportunity. We get a ton of feedback in our community through emails and things of people saying I just left my for profit job. I'm trying to figure out how to break in to this sector. I'm trying to learn the terminology I'm trying to learn where I start, I'm trying to figure out which skills are transferable. And we're just saying, oh my gosh, come on in, we will teach you if you're bringing your passion and your expertise, we will find a space for you. And I just think this is such a storied moment in time for us. This is the time to seize these individuals. And I also want to thank you for kind of tamping down this myth that's kind of been going around I don't even want to call it gossipy. But I've heard people talking about people are leaving the nonprofit sector. And you're saying, Actually, we're not seeing as much of that we're seeing actually jobs that were not opened are opening back up in droves. And I would love for you to talk about that. Just very quickly, from your vantage point of what your firm is saying.

Yes, absolutely. I have actually never seen this kind of opportunity for people in advancement, the number of positions at the entry level, the mid the in the entry level, the entry leadership level and the mid management level. It's it's like a tsunami. Yeah, it is. It is crazy. If you want to get into this business right now. It is the time. It is absolutely the time. And I also want to say from the leadership perspective, one of the things that we saw during the pandemic, was people recognizing leadership from within. So they started promoting from within, because they saw people step up in a way that maybe they hadn't expected. We have seen what I would call empathetic leadership. So some leaders just knew, or some people who maybe weren't even seen as leaders knew, it's time to reach out, it's time to connect with people, it's time to make sure that people have what they need. And so moving those people up into leadership positions, has again created those openings at the entry and entry leadership level.

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Okay, so like you we talk about attracting this talent. I mean, you've definitely built the case that the opportunity is now if you're in an organization, and you're in a position that you can have influence and bring talent in what are what's your advice, for trying to attract this type of empathetic leader, this person that can meet the moment that the calling is kind of in front of us.

People want to know who they're going to work with. And one of the pleasures and privileges of what I do is that we get to, we get to recruit people. So we help our clients understand that the best leaders now I believe leaders are at all levels of an organization, I don't care what your job is, you can be a leader. And that has to do with owning your position, owning who you are and caring about others. But But what we're seeing, or what we help our clients understand is that this is not about the high pressure interview. Now don't get me wrong, thorough vetting is really important. Yeah. But the recruiting piece is once you know, this is the person that you want. This is a process of helping them understand who are they going to be working with? Again, I believe part of that great resignation was people saying, I'm not happy. Life's too short, to not be happy. And happiness has to do with who we work with and who we report to, because that's right. That's the leadership piece that makes that impact. So we've been having this please understand that an interview is a two way street. An interview is them finding out about you as much as you're finding out about them. And you know, one of the things that one of the great leaders I worked for in my life did when I was interviewing, so I said I had come off of a bad experience, bad leadership experience. So my next job I was blessed enough to be recruited to that job and And the person who would be my boss, I said to her, I know you're going to check my references, I would like to check yours. And you interesting about that. Her response was what sold me on working with her. She said, you can talk to anybody who works for me, anybody who's ever worked for me, I'm happy to give you names or you can talk to it doesn't matter, you can ask around.

Because a great leader would not feel threatened by that question. They would feel empowered. And let me show you and my values and my in my community and my network will speak for itself. That is a really next level pro tip. Right? Absolutely.

And I will tell you, I also think if somebody said that to me, I would say I would say, Absolutely. And I would also say, and you might run into some people who really don't care for me, or don't care for my style. And that's important for you to know as well.

Well, what would you say are your best advice for trying to retain really invest in the people that are already at your organization? I know, this is a passion for you. I alluded to that y'all don't just recruit, you really do help leaders grow and really thrive in their position? So could you kind of TSF for what's the best practices in terms of doing that?

Absolutely. So we like to say here, you know, we want to recruit the right leaders, but we also want to help people be the right leaders. And it's really easy to say, well, you know, you can offer great onboarding, you can give people continuing education, you can provide coaching, and those are all important, but what's most important, is finding out what's most important to that person, what might be important to you might not be as important to me. I've been surprised by even my own staff, I will say, you know, what, what kind of education do you think you need, and people will come to me with things I would have never thought that they needed or wanted or would have never crossed my mind. So rather than my assuming what someone wants, you know, usually the best answer is the simplest answer. Ask them. Yeah.

I love that advice. I mean, we just rift on this an episode or two ago. Yes, like listening. squit sitting around like your conference table of your leadership team actually go talk to the people about what would make a vibrant culture, I'd love that.

Oh, my gosh, we're just seeing this hunger for people to get together, whether it's going back to the office, whether it's going back to the office hybrid, whether I mean, I literally talked to a fundraising consultant yesterday, who was jumping on a plane, I can't remember what city he was in. But he was on his way to, I think from either Chicago or Pennsylvania. He was on his way to Las Vegas, and then to Seattle, because he's flying around the country, meeting with his team.

Oh, man, that's awesome. Because people,

we get something when we're together that we don't get that we can't get from zoom. I love zoom. Don't get me wrong. But you know, we got our team together this summer here in Dallas, it's just so important to be together.

Yeah. So I want to kind of pivot a little bit into, you know, leadership and participating in interviews. And I think one of the things that makes the Bryant group so unique to me is you're not just a recruiting firm, you actually have this component where you want to train leaders, because you understand that that is you can't just get somebody in the right position and let them sort of wallow in it. You've got to keep building them up. You have to keep pouring in to professional development. So I love this coaching aspect of your business, too. But I think a lot of people have trepidation and anxiety. We have a ton of people who are young professionals who listen to this podcast. And I'm curious what advice you would have for our listeners who are prepping for an interview?

Absolutely. And so the first thing I will tell you is that they literally should go to our web page, and then go to our blog page. Scroll to the second page of blog postings and listen to the podcast called How to ace your interview.

Oh, we will link this up in the show notes everybody. Perfect.

This is by our vice president John Toulon. He is the best coach for how to interview that I know the best. We have had people who've been in the business 30 years, send us emails. Thank you so much for helping me. Thank you so much for helping me to just be able to articulate better or talk you know more clearly about what I do. And we all know what happens in an interview you get nervous. So this preparation is really important.

I love that. And so as you're kind of looking at leaders like what are some powerful interview questions that kind of bring the best out of from the from within somebody, what would you say are some good questions that they can employ

I'll tell you what, Becky, I'll give you two of my three favorites. So my first one is a couple of years ago when we were doing a CEO search, and they were looking for someone entrepreneurial, creative, they loved what they done, they loved, they loved the organization's legacy and its history. But they wanted someone to take that platform and then sort of explode it to the next level. So we came up with this question, what is the best big idea you've ever had? And the interesting thing is, we have now used that in almost all of our searches, since whether it's a CEO search, whether it is a director of corporate and foundation relations, it doesn't matter. And the reason is, because what you get from the answer to that question, is information you wouldn't get from any other question that you asked. You find out about creativity, you find out about implementation, you find out about how they work with a team, you find out if they're more of a solo Maverick kind of person, you find out sometimes how they failed and what they learn from it. And sometimes you find out a really great sense of humor.

Yeah, I love that question. Oh, my gosh, I don't want to just ask all of our podcasts.

Really, it reminds me of this question. I remember some of my friends who were engineers were getting asked in their job interviews, and it was how many barbers are in China. That was an interview question. And it was about how do you watch them problem solve from Okay, where there's about this, many people and barbers traditionally had to be men and this, and they just keep breaking down the nuances. And you're seeing someone's problem solving their thought process and their creativity of how they're going to get to that answer. So I see the potential in this I'm geeking. out, we may have to test this.

Yeah, love it.

Okay, well, it's much simpler. What is your superpower? And that's because I don't want to just ask somebody what their strengths is, what are your strengths? Oh, I work hard. And, you know, whatever. I'm great with people. When you ask somebody, what is your superpower? They think about it differently. What's the one thing that if I really had a cape and a letter on my chest? What would that look like? What would that be? And again, it just elicits a different kind of response. And it probably comes from my belief that every individual is a unique and wonderful and valuable person. And there's something really special about each one of us. So it was one of my favorite questions.

Those were amazing questions, and just underscore how evolved and amazing you are and why you have so much success, Sally. Okay, we would love to hear a story about how you've sort of had a unique lens into how recruitment is so deeply impactful, not only to the organization and the recruit, but also to the family. Do you have a story like that?

Absolutely. And I'm sure that there's many but one comes to mind, for sure. So a few years ago, we were recruiting the CEO of a public university Foundation, and, and the Vice President for Development for the university. So same person, it was not an easy recruitment. There's always challenges in each of them. And this place was going through a presidential transition. And there were, you know, there were just some really unique things that they needed in the person coming in some some great leadership qualities. And we, we found a great slate of candidates, but there was one person in particular that really resonated with them resonated with us. And one of the things that's really important to us, again, is our clients, our client organization, we go out and work to get whatever it is they they need to move them forward. But the only way to make a win is to have that be an absolute win for the candidate who's coming in, how will it change their life? How will they grow? And how again, will it affect the rest of their life because we're not just professional beings, and we're human beings. We're not human doings. So the person that ended up getting offered the job came from a town that was about 90 or city that was about 90 minutes away from this job, maybe two hours away. He had young children and his parents actually live in the city to which we were recruiting him. So this new job would be in the city where his parents are, and his parents knew for the last couple of years that pretty soon it would be time for him. to take that next leadership step. And so they had been very fearful that he would move away, because there just weren't a lot of jobs in the town where they live, and that he could have had a job anywhere in the United States. And so he was going to be moving away. And quote, unquote, right, taking those young grandkids. Yeah. Especially his mom had this sort of Top of Mind. So he sent us the video of him telling his parents that he would be taking this job in the town where they live. And just thinking about it brings tears to my eyes, he said, it was at like a holiday gathering like a Thanksgiving thing. And he said, so I have an announcement. And you can see his wife is like videoing it. He said, I have an announcement. And he said, I got a job as the CEO of the University of this state, this town exactly where they were standing right there, telling his mom, that they were going to be moving with her grandchildren, literally to live within blocks of them, she starts crying, people are jumping up and down. I mean, that he sent us that video just moved me so much, because it, it really made it real. We don't just help organizations, we help people grow in leadership, get connected to their families, and change their lives.

I mean, if this, I think we teach this, if you don't feel moved by wanting to pour into this, this type of hiring practice, and this type of way to see leaders of everybody in your organization, as a leader, like this is transformational. And I just really appreciate this comfort conversation because it meets the moment that we're at, you know, everything that's broken, that kind of bubbled to the surface over the pandemic, and all of the social justice issues that are you know, so heavy right now. We need to get in spaces that are healthy for us, as individuals as family units, and as organizations so we can take on the world. And this is where this is where it really meets the road. So okay, Sally, we in all of our conversations asking you for your one good thing. This is a piece of advice, maybe a secret to your success, or a good habit that you could share with our community.

Absolutely, this has been mine for a long time. Always make decisions out of love and trust, and never make decisions out of fear or anxiety.

Oh my gosh, though, James jokes. That was a coffee mug. But that, to me is exactly what you're saying about empathy based leadership. If that can be the center of your why and the way that you run everything through that filter, then thing all of your decisions are going to be made out of that love and trust it's in and the vibrancy and the way that cultures can thrive as a result of that, to me, it makes your potential completely limitless. So beautiful.

And Becky will have to have another whole podcast about how empathy is strength and is different than sympathy, which can be weakness. Yeah. Oh,

part two, Sally Bryant part two.

And I say too, I think it's unique that that one good thing specifically applied to taking a job is probably the most powerful thing you know of. I'm taking this out of fear or anxiety out of desperation. Like that's got to be probably the worst thing to do. So I love that you're encouraging moving into this in such a different way. Like I think that's so healthy and good.

Okay, Sally, you have grown us as believers grown our hearts I'm sure you have for our community. How can people connect with you? How can they connect with the Brian group? I know I've plugged your LinkedIn, but give us all the details about how people can connect?

Yes, absolutely. I'll say LinkedIn first and I can be a little bit difficult to find because there are something like 5000 Sally Brian's just in the United so if you put in Bryant group and then in parentheses, building powerful teams that will take you to our LinkedIn company page and it's a lot easier to find me then from there. And you can connect with anybody in our company from there. You can also email us at info at Bryant GRP so b r yant GRP COMM And our website is the same Brian to GRP comm so we would love to hear from you. We have a once a month career discussion called Third Thursday at three level Have people join us? And it's free. And we also have a talent management discussion for top level talent management people in higher ed and healthcare. And we'd love to have you join us for that.

Yes, we love the way that y'all show up and serve this community. It's always bigger, you know, with you guys because of the way that y'all show up and really tried to lift the sails of everyone. This has been a complete honor. We love hanging out with you, Sally, thanks for being on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I love hanging out with you guys do.

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