Varian German friend. Nice to see everybody. Maryann, this is great. This is great. Nice to see all these humanoids out there. So we started this thing welcome. We started this thing around just looking at all these wonderful people around the onset of the pandemic and it just keeps going, like the ever ready battery so I just keep showing up. What I do here is I simply respond to questions that people send me which are great and so I start with the ones that were sent in. And then if you have one, you want to raise your hand for the reactions column and come up with something. If you want to put something in the chat column. That's great. But I do have a couple little announcements one is one of the reasons this was moved was one of my very best friends. It's amazing what's happening in the world these days. One of my very best friend's son 25 year old son was found dead from a drug overdose just Gumball lately out of the blue, exactly what happened a year ago to my niece. It apparently went to a party took a Percocet, that obviously I think they haven't done a toxicology report probably laced with fentanyl. And that's it. I mean, can you believe it just beyond tragic. So yeah, that's a bit of a rough News for the week but hey, there's no shortage of rough news these days, right? Kind of why we do what we do with the kind of inner psycho spiritual work and so we can relate to these external hardships in a better way. But a couple of things coming up. We have the puroland our to the tantric puroland program starting in a couple of weeks, I'm actively drafting up some brand spanking new material around that, which is what I really enjoy some really cool stuff on the inner power of mantra because Carolina practice is largely about sacred sound mantra. So I'm doing a little riff on that so all this is gonna post a link to that if you're at all interested in it. You do not have to have attended the first pure lens weekend. Back in April, however it is it is recommended because I'm not going to be repeating that stuff. It's all brand new material. So I'm talking about that. That's really, really interesting stuff. I got permission to release the podcast I did the most recent one with Dan Goleman. of emotional intelligence Fang, right. He wrote this book. It was a New York Times bestseller for a really long time. And he co authored a book with seven Rinpoche and they reached out to me and so we did a podcast with them for a book that they're going to be releasing together in December called Why We meditate. And so I'm quite excited about that. We really had a fun time where which I just like what the book Rinpoche does most of the commentary, or I should say, the teaching, and then Dan comes in and gives kind of the kind of the science stuff behind it. So that was I think we're about to release that in a day or so. A couple of really cool guests coming up. My friend Sean Espeon Hargens who's a really really brilliant, integral ecologist and integral theorist. Really smart cookie. We're going to be talking about ontology in a new way. Eco Dharma Iike integral ecology is a really bright guy. So I'm excited about that. That's set up for the 18th. I also got a confirmation from Michelle Lowe, wonderful inner yoga teacher some of you might know her Mariana, you may remember her from mellow when we were there together some of you who are men that she teaches with Bob Thurman a lot. So I'm going to be doing a little riff with her. And then Ryan Hurd reached out to me, we did a podcast with him a couple years ago. He just was about to publish a new book on talismans, and he sent it to me this is pretty cool. So check this out. He sent this to me way back when I don't know how well you can see it, but we're gonna be talking about the power of these talismans. Oops, come back here. These kinds of charms that are that are power spots, and so this one is actually at the bottom says, Am I dreaming? So it serves as a kind of dream sign test. And on the other side says, Am I awake? So Ryan's a really great guy, very smart guy. He's written a number of books as well. So these are things that are coming up. So just a couple stuff on the kiosk for upcoming events. And so Alyssa, here's the pause. There we go. So we're good to go. So let me just jump into these questions because there's some good ones here as usual, and then we'll open it up and you guys can fire away with anything that you want. Questions, comments, or whatever. So this is from Linda.
Yesterday, President Biden said we are closer to nuclear nuclear Armageddon than we have ever been since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yeah, pretty spooky, right? I mean, this this, these lunatic. Generals out there are asking for tactical nuclear strikes. I mean, is that a euphemism or what? What's happening over there is just unbelievable. I also heard children keep going to school and bomb shelters and are terrified of the nuclear attack. They expect to come Yeah, no kidding. So this is where the questions come in. And I'm going to run commentary and interject some stuff as we go along, because the comments some of the questions a little bit long. And so I'll read and then run some commentaries. We can go long so back from lender to lender. The world may be illusory, but the suffering is real. Well, we need to understand here, Linda that when we talk about illusion illusionary illusory, it has a very specific meaning here. And if that meaning is understood, it's very easy to slip into nihilism and spiritual bypassing. Doesn't matter what happens in Ukraine doesn't matter what happens to you know, my friend's son, it's all an illusion. Oh, good, Lord. You can't say that know what illusion means here. It simply means that things appear things have provisional existence. For sure. You cannot deny that this is a really big misunderstanding with teachings on emptiness Dream Yoga, all this reform. It's all just a dream. What does it matter what I do? Oh, my goodness. That that's a pretty big misunderstanding. So illusion means fundamentally, absolutely positively things do appear you cannot deny that. Illusion means a parent's is not in harmony with reality. And so therefore, when you're dealing with these types of issues, questions you have to centrifuge out relative and absolute truth. And in fact, until you get into the domain of relative and absolute truth, these issues don't even exist. So the world may be illusory, yes, but you have to define illusion and illusory in a very specific way. Otherwise, it slips into nihilism. But the suffering is real for sure the suffering is real, but even them yes, on a relative level, absolutely. Positively suffering is real. But on an absolute level, again, now this is not taking away from all the things we should do on a relative level. And I'll say more about that on a deep kind. Of dharmic level, we can actually question the validity veracity of this thing called suffering itself how true really is your suffering on a relative level? absolutely positively somebody hits me with a hammer it hurts like crazy. I'm gonna I'm gonna suffer. But on a on an app on a pure absolute level. What's really going on? Beyond that, beneath that, how can you respond to this with an open heart? Well, then I think you properly or partly we have answered your own question. First thing I would say is in fact by responding and not reacting. So the idea that when you respond if a responding from an open market, open heart instead of contracting and reacting from a kind of a dense contracted head, that responsibility is going to come from this more open space and from that, you're going to be able, in fact, to be of greater benefit, because you're not reacting you are in fact responding. Therefore, you can see more clearly what really needs to be done. You're not projecting the situation with your hopes and fears and imputations you're actually seeing what's truly going on. And this is why it's very, very helpful to understand both the relative and the absolute vectors, so that you can work with both this this really beautiful integral approach. So how can you respond to this with an open heart? Well, you do exactly what you just said. You keep your heart open, as painful as it is. And you respond from that place of vulnerability and compassion. And here there's a whole bunch of things we can say probably beyond the scope of where we can go, how to avoid burnout, how to do this consistently, without really frying yourself out. How do you keep giving, giving, giving, by understanding deeply that
if you relate to things properly responding instead of reacting, or uses jangle a lot, you feel things more, that they hurt you less, because you're not appropriating them, you're not giving them a place to stand. So you feel the heartbreak in Ukraine, you feel the terror of what's going on there. Amazon itself. Did you watch the 60 minutes thing last week with a wife of Zelinsky? I mean, was that heartbreaking or what? So you, you listen, you pay attention, you're empathic, but you don't just leave it at the level of empathy because empathy alone can become a trap. This is why compassion is greater than empathy. Just because you're feeling everything. You become an empath that does not always initiate action. true compassion initiates action. Empathy can if it leads to compassion, but empathy in and of itself, not necessarily so so empathy can become a near enemy here. There's some studies actually that have shown us. So come back to you what are the best prayers for a situation like this? Depends on you, Linda, depends on your background. If you're a Christian you do the prayers that relate to you. They are again, if you're if you're associated with a particular tradition, is speaking a little bit from the Buddhist perspective. Tong Lim, the thing that we do a lot with Joe and I think to some extent, Jeffrey on our Monday night sessions, those who attend those working with the practice of sending and taking. Tong learn is incredibly powerful dedication of merit is incredibly powerful. So there are dozens of different things you can do from the Buddhist perspective to help at this more kind of meditative, contemplative level. But always realizing that don't leave it just there. Put your money where your mouth is, send donations, send supplies, do you know these relative completely effective and also very, very beneficial, very helpful activities to help the world right. So what are the best prayers for a situation like this? Depends on you and your background? I was a teenager during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember that as well. And I was scared. I'm not scared for myself now, but I worry where this will lead the world. And how much suffering will follow. I'm with you, man. I am really worried about this as well. In fact, honestly, if if we're not just totally freaked out
by what's happening in the world today, right? I mean, we could we could list the analysts growing list of atrocities in justices and everything is just unbelievable. We are in the dark age. If we're not feeling this, and we're not a little bit afraid or a lot afraid, we don't know what's going on. It is bad. But here's the deal. It said in the tradition, and I think it's really, really quite true. That the bodhisattvas they actually go into the lower realms, they go into the hell realms, they voluntarily make aspirations and intentions to be reborn in times like this in situations like this. Where they're needed the most. And so therefore, that's another way to look at it is looking at it there through the eyes of a bodhisattva who takes voluntary rebirth at a literal level into the lowest hell realms and whatnot, because that's where the most help is needed. And so what we can do with our openness with our receptivity armed with all the teachings that help us to engage in this without being burned out, with all the skillful means that are relative and absolute level that can help, then we're actually somewhat specifically situated uniquely qualified to help at both relative and absolute levels. And so through the level of meditation, realizing that we have impact on the world through what we do with our thoughts, and our prayers that has an effect, what we do with our speech, what we do with our actions definitely does help and so we can look at this absolutely positively as an atrocity because it is we can look at it as an obstacle. But we can also look at it as an opportunity to provide service to provide giving and basically just never give up look at the Dalai Lama. His entire country destroyed basically 1000s of monasteries just razed to the ground and million people eradicated. Civilization virtually destroyed. And he just gets up day after day after day. endlessly, endlessly, endlessly living and breathing for the service of others. Is it easy? No, it's not easy. But this is just what Bodie samples do. So this is a really great question. I like it, Linda, because it's really, really practical and applicable. And those of you who know that, when I'm chatting these days, almost at the end of every program, I say is, if what we're doing is not of practicality, if what we're doing with these teachings isn't a benefit to the world today. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. What matters is taking what we're doing here and getting in the streets, getting whatever we need to do voting, doing all the things, you know, it's like Suzuki Roshi said beautifully, strictly speaking, there are no light beings there's only enlightened activity. So this is really important to me that if we're just engaging in this stuff, it's spiritual arm sharing, philosophical arm sharing, we're totally missing the mark. The whole idea here is that take these teachings use them to empower your wisdom, compassion and the efficiency, the efficacy of what you do, and then get out there and do something. So this is a really great contribution. Great question, Linda. Not a difficult, easy one a difficult question, but it points to some really important ideas. Okay, from Katie, Katie always has great questions for us. We suffer because we imagine that reality has qualities that it doesn't permanent solidity, etc, yes. So this is again, a longer one, so I'll run commentary and respond as we go through it. Yes, this is what's called the imaginary nature. Then what we do here, Katie is exactly what you're saying we suffer because we impute we project onto reality qualities that is not inherently there. This is this kind of other powering so Changwon where you literally imbue reality with power it doesn't inherently have through the process of projection, you take the qualities of your own structures of consciousness. And unbeknownst to us, because structures of consciousness you don't look at them, you look through them. We project these qualities onto the world. We reify freeze, create a world in our own image. Back to you in Tibetan Buddhism, we use imagination, not just Tibetan Buddhism, Carl Jung used its active imagination, all the contemplative traditions I'm aware of use it. We use imagination as skillful means paren, through visualization of deities, channels, etc. To alleviate suffering. That's true. It works. Yes it does. But how does replacing here's the question, but how does replacing one imagination with another lead to a clearer perception and realization? That's a good question. I love it.
It's so big. In fact, Katie, that is you may know you know, in the tantric traditions, some scholars especially I can speak a little bit more authoritative ly about Tibetan Tantra Buddhism. For some scholars say that of all tantric practice 1/3 It's difficult to make these rough generalizations, but it's also a little bit kind of orienting. 1/3 of Tantra is actually about this issue. In our languaging, it's also called Pure illusory form, practice, and I'll be saying a little bit more about that. It's also known as generation stage practice. It's also known as deity yoga. It's also known as Vietnam practice. These are all basically basically synonyms for the same colossal set of practices that I literally I do these every single day. And I've done these literally for years, decades at this point. And because I've been doing this for so many, countless hours for so many years, I've looked into this very, very deeply, because I want to know what I'm doing and why so I've spent a lot of time with this one, Katie, so the reason it works in the briefest bullet point way for a topic that is really big is that we're using imagination in a way to fight fire with fire. We're using imagination. That is in harmony, a process that is actually in harmony with reality. So when you're engaged with these practices, so some people may not know what you're doing here. When you're working with these visualization, imagination, practices, all the names I gave for it. You visualize yourself as a deity. That's the first thing you do. Well, why do you do that? Let's just start right there. While you're doing it for a number of reasons. One is working with your mind visualizing yourself imagining yourself as a deity is one way to work with what's called tantric shamatha. So you're working to stabilize your mind through the process. of visualization itself. That's one thing you're doing. The second thing you're doing is a process of this is my languaging. You won't find this I don't I don't even think it's a word but you get the idea. Almost everything we do with our unwitting visualization imagination practices, so this is the other really amazing thing about these practices. What they do these meditations is they take a process that's already taking place, like you're saying here, if there's process of projection in imagination, and it transforms it in an alchemical tantric way to transform samsara into nirvana through these methodologies. So it takes something that we're doing whether we know whether or not we're always imagining things we're always projecting. We're always involved in a kind of samsaric generation stage practice. All in the service of reductionism. We don't even know we're doing it, degrading ourselves and others by seeing ourselves in the in these ridiculous ways. And so by visualizing yourself as a deity, and there's so much else besides what I'm about to say, one of the things you're doing is you're actually practicing a form of elevation ism. You're actually seeing yourself again in a form that is more in resonance with the way things really are so imagination also works at the level of the Sun Boca Kaya. So, again, I can't define all these terms, but Katie knows these terms. Working with sound,
Mantra visualization, and these practices lift you up out of this frequency domain into the the domain of sound and light, which is actually closer to reality is closer to the truth. So these these practices serve to lift you up. So you visualize yourself as a deity. You visualize the world as a mandala as a sacred environment, because in essence, that's what it is. If you see the world properly, it actually reveals itself as a mandala. Now, it's not going to reveal itself in the ways that you see when you're working with modelers and you're working to visualize a palace. These are all archetypes, even the deity seeing yourself that's an archetype. So it's not like you're gonna run around and see everybody like a cartoon character that you see in these religious scrolls. Not at all. One of my teachers said, you know, cartoon visualization brings about cartoon realisation No, you have to understand the basis of what you're doing here. And so by doing this, you're cleaning up yourself and the world. It's actually a type of pure land practice. It's a type of inner tantric, pure land practice, where you're working you're faking it, of course, because you don't see yourself as a deity. You don't see everybody else's a deity you don't see this world as a sacred mandala. You don't see it as a pure land. But that's only because you're a victim of all your unconscious negative visualization practices. And so this is an amazingly powerful, effective set of meditations that again, your question is great, because the more you understand it, the more you're going to do it. The more it makes sense. And then you realize that absolute genius of these types of practices, they're, they're unbelievably powerful. And so what else I wrote a couple of notes down here. Yeah, so the other thing that this does, and this is also a really big part of these imagination, practices, visualization practices. They're designed in a again, this is all slightly esoteric, so they're, they're designed to purify birth. And by that what I mean is that the mind the formless mind is always taking birth, the formless mind is always forming itself spontaneously driven out of habit, karma impulse into the samsaric images that we know is thought forms, degraded image narratives, all the things, the mind is constantly giving birth, to sit in meditation for 30 seconds, to see how your mind is always birthing out of Formless awareness, all the images of your mind and then by extension, fundamentally really either reified so called objects in the external world. And so these practices purify birth because they allow you to shape your mind voluntarily. In instead of letting your mind run away and involuntary overpopulation. It's a really a population problem. Taking these samsaric forms thought forms in voluntarily, you're giving birth to formless awareness intentionally. And then therefore in the Bardo teachings, this practices another massive dimension of these practices, this practice that eventually purifies literal reincarnation, it literally purifies your next life. Because just like now you're giving birth to thought involuntarily abandoned voluntary. Rebirth process will lead you want to involuntary rebirth life after life after life or ever. Until you do something like this, where then what you do through these practices than others, then you shape your mind you form it intentionally, not out of ignorance, confusion, habit, impulse, but out of love, kindness, compassion. Those are called a voluntary incarnates. So this is a really great big question, Katie, and I'll leave it there for now. But boy, you're barking up the right tree if you want to engage in these practices, and really explore them again. I do these every single day of my life. They're in the world of Dream Yoga, illusory form. This is what's called peerless reformed practice of a three types, pure, pure and perfectly pure. This is pure. To tie it into what I said at the outset, the way it matures into seeing the world in a sacred imperfectly pure way is eventually you start to see yourself as a deity. That doesn't mean you're going to wake up look in the mirror and you're going to look like chakra some viral or somebody. No, no, no, no. It means the archetype of chakra some viral or about your your gagne or any any of the hundreds of archetypes represented in these deities is actualized. You actually see yourself this way. You see the world in that way spontaneously. That's called perfectly pure illusory form, where the world is then seen in this way. Okay, this is a really big, great question. I'm going to let it go for now just because we could talk about this for weeks. Okay. From Jason
Hello, Andrew. I was ordained the Dallas monk some 30 years ago. Very cool. Good for you, man. However, Dream Yoga is something new to me. It is for many. I'm struggling with the idea of repeating this as a dream and doing reality. checks at the same time. Okay. Let's help you. It seems that by doing a state check, I'm confirming that I may not be in a dream which the gates assuming that I am in a dream. Okay, so right here we need to clarify a couple things because what you're doing when you're conducting the state check here, Jason. And if you hear we can talk about this back and forth directly. This is this question actually centrifuges out the difference between lucid dreaming and Dream Yoga. And so I riff on this a little bit because there's a lot of confusion around this. And it is confusing, though, when you're doing a state check, so what a state check is for those of you may not be familiar with it. State checks are classic lucid dreaming techniques where basically you train yourself you sensitize yourself to develop what's called a Critically Reflective attitude towards the arising of your experience and so how this relates to the dream and then you'll see how it relates to Dream Yoga in this so called waking state is one of the reasons main reason where we we remain not lucid to our dreams at night, is because we just take we take at face value whatever appears pink elephant appears you don't question it. Some you're flying in the dream, you don't question it. So this non reflective attitude is what in fact, keeps us sucked into non lucidity. So by working with state checks that are also connected with dream signs, and I'll come back to that in a second. You can actually run a test you there by jumping up and down or trying to put your finger through your palm or any of the dozens different things that we've talked about in so many different settings. You train yourself to do these this dream and then by realizing that hey, I you know, I'm jumping up in a dream. I'm keeping going. I'm still I'm flying up. That's a state check that confirms that, Hey, I can't do this in a waking reality. I'm either dreaming or dead. You're either in the dream or you're in the Bardo, that moment of Critically Reflective attitude. That state check will confirm that you're in a nighttime dream, and you're instantly lucid. Now how that works in in the waking state. This is where Dream Yoga centrifuge out from lucid dreaming, because when you do a dream and when you do a state check in the world of lucid dreaming, like like right now you do a state check. Let's all jump up. We jump up. We come back down. Okay, great. I've just confirmed I'm awake here. That's terrific. Yes, you are awake in a provisional sense in relationship to the to the example dream to the double delusion of the nighttime dream. You see what I'm saying here? So you conduct a state check to confirm that you're awake from the nighttime dream into this seeming waking reality. But here's where it gets slippery. Because in the world of Dream Yoga, the very criteria that you use to assess that you're dreaming. I'm sorry that you're awake in the world of lucid dreaming is exactly the same criteria that you now use to assess that you're asleep. In the world of Dream Yoga, you see the difference? In other words, if you jump up, you and you come down, you see the world as solid, lasting and independent. That actually means that's a dream sign. That means you're asleep in the world of samsara. You're awake in relation to the nighttime double delusion, but you're still asleep in this reality, and that's the difference. And that's how you centrifuge those two things out. And so what I'm seeing here, Jason is a confusion conflation of lucid dreaming and Dream Yoga, and how dream Science Day checks are worked with in both those domains, same words, different kinds of application. Okay. All right. Said another way this is back to him. Reality checks interrupt the state of being of believing you are in a dream. That's true. If I believe I am in a dream, why should I check to see if I was or not. And this is so important because just believing in it and just thinking and it is not enough. You can think that you're awake and you're still dreaming. Let me say that again. Just believing or thinking that you're awake is not enough. You can say to yourself right now oh my gosh, I think I'm awake. Maybe in relation to the nocturnal dream, the double delusion. But just by thinking you're awake now, doesn't mean you're awake now. That's why you have to conduct these state checks. You see, just by thinking or believing it is not enough. It's just like a hypothesis. You have to test it. It's not enough. It's actually the dream researchers will tell you this. absolutely, positively. You have to test it. Otherwise you're just kidding yourself. Okay.
All right. A couple more. Oh, Marley's These are so fun. Okay, for some time I'm pondering if conscious habits slash karma create non lucid dreams. Yes, and lucid dreams are actions and intentions create karma. Like in our physical reality. Yes, that's true, but only if we're lucid. If you're not lucid, it doesn't create karma. It's the it's the production and the effect of karma but you're not producing karma. You only produce karma if intentionality is there, just like you said. Back to our lease. What if time doesn't? really exist? Carlo Rovelli? Yeah, it's not just Carla who says this theoretical physicist. Fundamentally, any sensitive scientists, physicists, I should say going back to Einstein and even before will tell you that time doesn't exist. It's not just time that doesn't exist. Space doesn't exist. Causality doesn't exist in the oil of absolute truth. In fact, one way to determine again, kind of like a dream sign stage check. One way to determine that you're still in relative reality you're still in samsara, is if there's temporal spatial and causal dimension still at play. Let me say that again. One way to determine that you're not fully awake, that you're still in the realm of samsara, that you're still in the realm of relative truth is if you experience space time, which we all do. It's like the background, the axiomatic background of our experience. No, it's not it's a construct. If you see this world, temporally spatially, and causally, that's a fundamental dream sign that you're actually asleep. So it's not just Carlo Rovelli, it's Nima or Connie Ahmed. great physicist. You can hear this wonderful talk. Space Time is doomed. You can pull it up online any sensitive physicists will tell you space and time don't exist back to you. relative levels, again, centrifuge relative and absolute truth. Their relative levels absolutely space exists. Time exists, causality exists, otherwise science wouldn't work technology wouldn't work. That is relative truth. You can't deny it. It absolutely positively has provisional relative validity reality and that's why things so to speak, work at that level. So if time doesn't really exist, and the world doesn't really exist, ah, this is where you got to be careful again. The world who said the world doesn't really exist. You name a guy here, Marcus Gabriel. I don't know his work. I would like to see what what does he mean when the world doesn't exist? Is he talking about this centrifuging out a relative and absolute truth. So I can't speak to what he proclaims there, but I would be extremely cautious, just like with the first question, and in fact, I would say you can't do this. You just can't do it because it's wrong. The world doesn't exist. Yes, it does. Step out in front of that bus coming out the street and see if the world is illusory when it smacks you and you're dead. So you can't say the world doesn't exist. It doesn't exist in the way that we impute it to exist if that's what this guy is saying, hi five. But if it's just kind of nihilistic potentially bypassing, whoo, you can't say that. Okay, back to my lease. What if karma creates space and time? Yes, karma is part of the generative impulse, all that. What else do you think constructs are illusions?
I laugh because it's such a great question. Well fundamentally, Marley's what constructs are illusions is ignorance. Ignorance, ma rigpa, not knowing the first Madonna, the primary sparkplug in the wheel of life. Ignorance is the principal construct of spacetime causality, the projection of the so called real world so again, if this mark is character, Marcus Gabriel is saying the rule doesn't exist as a projection of ignorance that's spot on. But if he's saying what most people say around it, I wouldn't agree with that at all. So basically, what constructs are illusions is ignorance. The ban is thrown into form to the projective powers of the mind, generated by fear bad habits, karma and impulse. And so all the wisdom traditions, and again, I can speak a little bit more about Buddhism, depending on which school you're talking about. Literally every school has their answer to this question. So if you talk about it from an Abbe Dhamma point of view, they will say is the five skandhas that created if you talk about it from a Mahayana point of view, and would again be my Richter myrica, the inability to understand the nature of emptiness. If we talk about it from a tantric point of view it would be what constructs the illusion is reified light so it really depends where at least this is again, these are beautiful, big questions, what constructs are illusions? Basically, these fundamental things I mentioned, but then each and every single school in Buddhism of which there are many has its own respective answer. So this is a really big question. Good. Okay, so let's see there was one from Tim here. Yeah. I really feel interaction According to Dream Yoga. Cool. I know you said that to be successful. The Dream Yoga we need to be able to do lucid dreaming. Yep. Train it because Dream Yoga transcends but includes lucid dreaming, no dreams, no lucid dreaming. No lucid dreaming, no Dream Yoga. Back to him. From what I've learned so far, I'm trying to work with these factors to induce dreams, intention, journaling, meditation. daily reality testing, occasional use of galantamine books, videos, workshops, saturate my mind, is that pretty much yet? Or am I missing anything else you can think of? That's pretty much it. Do you want more? This is if you do this with consistency with constancy with patients with perseverance, everything you just said here Hmm, this is a wonderful summation of the principal ingredients. You're gonna start having these lucid dreams. Am I missing anything or can you do more? Yes, you can do more. But this is where you know you have to make this you talked about this dream yoga being my spiritual path. Well, if it's really your spiritual path, and again, fantastic if it is, the next step for you would be to do the six yogas of Naropa. The six star was of Naropa This is where Dream Yoga is principally taught. This is the way I learned it, but for that you need oh my gosh, a little bit of preparation to put it mildly. You need to do these these loop things you have to jump through these hoops to get these teachings. But if for the people that are super serious, that really want to go with the stuff as deep as you possibly can. The six diamonds are the way to go. That's the way I learned them because then you have a whole set of practices before you even get the Dream Yoga. The inner Yoga is the inner heat Yoga is the chandalier TUMO. Loose reform practice all these things that massively grease the skids. So that when you actually get to Dream Yoga becomes much more available to you. So everything you're doing here from a causal vehicle point of view 10 is high five spot on you nailed it great summary. If you want to go one step and really get to the guts of it, the next step which would make it a true spiritual path for you, that would take years I highly recommend it. Do the six year old guys and you have to find a teacher Are there many do it but they're still out there who actually does these trainings. takes a fair amount of prep. But if you really want to do this stuff, that's where you go. Okay, so there was another one I got here, hold on. Okay,
so from Isaac, I hope I hope Isaac is here because I did not understand your question and my friend so I apologize. Do you have experience with quote unquote dreaming and quote unquote, dreamless sleep and meditation? Not in Dream Yoga, but in actual sitting meditation? I would need to ask you some questions, Isaac. I'm addressing this because I want to pay homage to that you sent me this question, but I don't know what you mean here. So when you say dreaming, you me like I'm sitting in meditation and I literally start to dream. What do you actually mean? When you say dreamless, sleep and meditation? Do you mean that I'm in meditation and I fall into a formless dimension, if that's the case, and for sure, so I can't really address this without some clarification on your part because I just don't know what you're referring to. When you say dreaming and dreamless sleep and meditation, that you're speaking of something that doesn't resonate with me in terms of reference and significant signifier, signify so if you're there, come on. Board. Let me know. Last one, and then we'll open it up. Next question is what's so good from Susan? Seeing emptiness directly? Okay, these are again, these are more these are nice wonderful, deep questions. Seeing emptiness directly the first Bhumi is a shift in consciousness. Yes, you could totally say that. The first Bhumi is also the first ground. So why there's so much to say here right. First, blimey, is the first of 10 Bhumi is 10 grounds leading from basic introduction to the nature of reality, which is what emptiness is all the way to the full actualization stabilization of it the 10th Bhumi and then 11 Bhumi, which is Buddhahood. So, it's also called the third path of five paths and Buddhism is called the path of seeing it's really where you want to get in this life before you die. This is a dimension of experience you want to try to reach before you die, because it's utterly non retrogressive once you attain a glimpse of the first blooming of the first path of saying, You're never going to fall back again. You'll never be fooled again. But I wouldn't say I would say I wouldn't be a little bit more refined here. Susan. I would say it's not a shift in consciousness. It's the end of consciousness. Because consciousness remember, this is this may seem like he's just word playing. No, no. No, this is important. This is where Buddhism separates itself from the Hindu traditions, especially Advaita Vedanta, where they talk about pristine consciousness, pure consciousness and in their languaging pure consciousness is an oxymoron in Buddhism, because consciousness by definition is always dualistic in this in this world, in the Buddhist world, they make a very big difference and important one between consciousness and wisdom. Consciousness is dualistic wisdom awareness is now dualistic. So consciousness, by definition, actually can't experience the first Bhumi if they're mutually exclusive. So that's the first thing I would say that it's not just a shift in consciousness, it's the end of consciousness. That's why if you're unprepared, you go unconscious, like we do in deep dreamless sleep, you can get a glimpse of the first Bhumi every single light when you fall into deep dreamless sleep. But unless you're aware of it lucid to it, you don't experience wisdom, you literally go unconscious. So it's not just the shift of consciousness this one consciousness transforms into wisdom when duality transforms into non duality. So back to you.
Saying emptiness directly the first blue is a shift in consciousness direct recognition that all appearances are mind. Yes, it's true. But it's not just that. It's not just saying that all appearances are mind it's also immediate discovery season. If that mind is empty, that emptiness is spontaneously present. That spontaneous presence is self liberated, right? So this is another such a rich question. So yes, it is a recognition that all appearances are mind for sure. But then it's like okay, well, what is this mind? What is it? What is that exactly what is it made? What is that made of? So it's part of what you're saying is true, but again, if you're using mind is a difference here. Usually when people talk about when the Buddha is talking about mine, they use the word Sam. Sam is associated with consciousness that's confused mind. What you want to do is transform mind Sam into wisdom. rigpa baths a transformation of consciousness into wisdom or awareness. So this is another really great question. Do the short Becky you to do the short rec instances of recognition of the nature of mind during pointing out instructions, directions and self increase during meditation eventually lead to the shift? Yeah, for sure. That's what they're there for. And so, they are glimpses of this, I say glimpses of this vision. And so the pointing of transmissions those of you who may not be aware of this, this is when a teacher somebody can do the Shakti Shakti pot tradition in Hinduism. This is when a teacher the various magical approaches and whatnot will actually point out emptiness will point out the nature of reality. That's what's called pointing out. I like to talk about it's pointing in transmission, where you get a glimpse you get a peek. Oh, that's it. What's very funny, in an interesting way, I've been blessed. To have dozens and dozens of these by masters all around the world for decades. And very often when people have these things, it's kind of humorous, because it's such a fleeting glimpse. Very often people come out and they whisper to each other, you know, did you get it? Did you get it? It's actually quite quite funny in a certain way. And one way is very interesting. This ties into the earlier question about illusory form. One way to actually assess that you got it or not, is that after you have a pointing out transmission and you get it, the world appears like what a dream. It's beautiful. One way to assess that you got it is you look up and what you're seeing is like a drain. So that's one way to assess it. The analytic meditations that you talked about the self inquiries in a certain way, those are more powerful, because what they do and again, this is like the whole path of Ramana Maharshi, you know, answering the question, Who am I? These paths of self inquiry, analytic meditation are passionate. These are in a certain way more important. This is why I teach so much now an open awareness meditation because what these practices do, Susan is the analytic meditations. More important, I think, than the pointing out transmissions, is the analytic meditations provide breadcrumbs? In other words, by engaging in the analytic meditations you can work your way back like like Hansel and Gretel leaving breadcrumbs to find their way home. The analytic meditations leave breadcrumbs so you engage in them over and over and over the Maha Mudra investigations, all the practices that you may or may not be aware of. They allow you to work your way back through elec meditation, Vipassana on your own, and that's why it's such a big deal. Right.
Okay, so let me just rephrase this again, do the short incidences of recognition during printing transmissions, that self inquiry eventually lead to the shift? Yes, they do. Or is it a big shift that happens all at once? Oh, hardly ever I mean, basically, I would say never with some qualifications. And the reason I say this is because there are people running around today and if this wasn't being recorded, I will give you their name so you stay away from them. Who have a glimpse of this legitimate I'm not criticizing the glimpse, whatever state realisation not trade stabilization, is the difference between states and traits, or experience and realization. Lots of people on the West have these dramatic insights and they're only dramatic in terms of contrast. That's what makes them dramatic. If you're super contracted. The contrast is ecstatic. It's just like this cosmic orgasm. You feel like you've attained enlightenment. No, you haven't. You've just glimpsed it. And the only reason it's dramatic is because you're so contracted before you have it. But then these people because they don't understand the difference between states and traits, they and their disciples become state junkies, they really get lost. And you get this whole really damaging dangering cult thing that happens all the time just because somebody had a beautiful, legitimate experience and not a stable realization. So the reason I say this is it's unbelievably rare to have like a king in drug booty experience in history where where some person who's so ripe, you know something happens or Marpa you know, Marburg gets slapped in the face or wherever got I can't remember it was palapa. slapped in the face. The sandal the flip flop hits him in the face. He's irreducibly enlightened, that basically never happens. If you think it is you're probably kidding yourself. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's virtually impossible. These are the you know, the path is really one of the gradual path to sudden enlightenment. Yes, some people can be so ripe. They when they get one of these transmissions or palapa slaps them with a flip flop. They wake up, yes, theoretically, it can happen. In fact, it can happen right now. But practically it doesn't. Why? Because of the power of habit, karma, relative truth is still there. This massive tsunami of karma is still there, to slam the clouds back in once the lightning strike is over. And you're still back in this confused dimension. So this is why you have to be really, really careful with these sorts of things. So does it happen all at once yet? Basically, yet? Theoretically, yes. But practically, no. There's a shift happened for many students, or is it rare? I can't say. I mean, the people who really have realization are the most humble they're the ones that don't talk about it. They're the ones that they just do their booty stuff activity and remain completely anonymous and help others and then just die completely anonymously. So how many times has happened to you? I don't really know. Do people have glimpses and attain a glimpse of the first moment for sure. Happens all the time. And in fact, I'll stop here because oh my gosh, we're already at the hour mark, and I haven't even opened it up. This is where you have to differentiate between what's called Access and phenomenal consciousness. From a philosophical point of view, you can totally have an experience of this and in fact, you have it every night you just don't recognize it when you fall deeply asleep. So you have you have phenomenal experience of it, but you don't have access to it. In other words, you don't recall it. So these are beautiful questions. I love them really rich. Wonderful. Thank you so much for sending them. Sorry, they took so long but I want to answer them with some rigor. I don't want to just sound like these. Each one of these questions you could do a whole week on but anyway, if there are some live questions we can now entertain those. Thanks for your patience.
Let me get your muted quickly and there's some that came through. Really, oh my gosh, someone nice to see you. Be here and two. Big hugs, miss your enthusiasm and I've been listening to some unusual podcasts and you know, it's astonishing to maybe put your enthusiasm together with your depth of knowledge and you meet those. I know it to be
equally something's ringing
I'm sorry. Can't Stop it.
Like a dream sign. I think it was something that she had going. Let us query and let us know when it stops and then come back on because we literally can't hear you. Okay. What when it stops, waved to us and then we'll bring it back on because it's so loud did it stop yet yeah. Let us know when it stops and then raise your hand. We'll bring you back out. Okay. We literally can't tell you but so stay tuned. Okay. Hey, Aneesa Hi, Andrew. Nice to see you. Yes. It's
been a while. Thank you. Okay. Yes, a quick question. So, I have a dream practice question. And the question is, who will be talking to and be addressed the dreaming mind in a lucid dream in particular? You know, it's been one of my you know, for example, when I get lucid I have, you know, I talk to my dreaming mind and say, you know, improve clarity or improve, bring me some stability lucidity, and it happens, it does change or give me light or, you know, and so I just wondered, you know, for example, one of the things I've been really desiring is to manifest a dream guide to kind of help me navigate the dream world. Because I feel like I have a hard time getting lucid. I might get lucid like once a month, every other month. And there's so many dream signs all over but I just don't get lucid you know, because they're not practicing as much and so I've been really trying to bring my daytime practice into kind of the nighttime arena, you know, with so one of my real questions is more kind of like, you know, how can we use Dream Yoga as a path to develop, trust and connect with kind of Buddha nature I did that once I asked dreaming mind you know, showed me my Buddha nature. So if you could see a little bit about that, like, you know, like how, how the dreaming mind seems sometimes it's yeah, the dream the dream is sort of a reflection of our expectations and thoughts and you know, I can see that as it happens, you know, it would more according to literally do more if I can see that. But then there's also something beyond that. That still manifests, you know, that's not my thinking mind. Yeah. He didn't say a little bit in a way that would inspire me. I don't know. This go you know, great question. Thank you.
You're very welcome. So what what is immediately begets is the issue of mind itself, right? And again, another one of these tiny little issues like what is mine? How does it manifest? This is so important with these practices, not not merely in terms of addressing your question, but these are really, really big, big issues. And so first thing to understand perhaps is the deeper dimensions the deeper kind of spectrum of mine and different axes, you could say. So on one level, it's important to understand and this is, I think, quite helpful, that it's not mind its minds. So where you use an art kind of a catch all phrase, that to denote this thing called mind but to really take it apart is very worthwhile endeavor and will answer all your questions. So one thing is to understand that it's not mind in a reified, monolithic sense. It's actually minds plural. Every moment there's a new mind this appearing in an atomistic way out of the zero point energy field using physical terms or the Dharmakaya or Turiya. A moment of awareness at Dharma, a moment of experience, atoms of experience arises and a new mind arises with that moment to moment to moment to moment, like like a pixelated painting. It is only the state of the untamed untrained mind that creates what's called through flicker fusion that creates the illusion of the continuity of mind. And then almost by immediate implication, a self appropriator who is actually having that mind slash ego, so that's the first thing. Second thing is when you have these experiences and beautiful question, when you're really doing deeper work like this, and you're making a kind of supplication, you're actually opening two things can be happening. And I leave this to you to play with one is you could actually be relating supplicating asking for guidance form for your deeper self. And so you'll get this like Jung had his his dream guide filament, right. I mean, he was like a lifetime companion for Carl Jung, we read about him. It's amazing how much he relied on him and how much Solomon would guide him and help him and teach him. So having a dream Guide is a really beautiful thing to do. And if you're cultivating that, just keep going. Now, where's that dream guide coming from? That's difficult to say, is it in fact an archetypal representation of the deeper dimensions of your own wisdom mind coming forth in that image so that you can establish a relationship to that particular appearance? Or is it in fact, something coming outside of your world pool outside of your own? Kind of self sense, where you know, transcendent forces are actually impinging upon you and delivering insights from outside maybe on an absolute level, they're the same. I think I'll leave this as an open question for you. But when it's a little bit like asking when you're doing supplications, you know, grant your blessings so that my mind may be one with the Dharma. Well, who's the viewer who's the viewer? Who is granting the blessing? So these are wonderfully powerful questions that lead to great insight. And I like to be somewhat agnostic about these because that allows you to actually work with this as part of your own path, in maybe incubator journey, incubated dream. They'll allow you to discover the answer for yourself because then it's going to deliver a lot more impact than what I can give to you. Right. But to me, these are both completely viable ways not necessarily mutually exclusive, that these energetics these agencies and this is what I'm going to be talking a lot about with Sean Espeon Hargens in a couple of weeks. This idea of the ontology matrix, and non human intelligences. He's a real really bright guy about this sort of thing. Who are what are these NH eyes? Where do they come from? How real are they? How can they affect us? How can they help us? So I would perhaps work with just, you know, explore the different dimensions of mind using different traditions. Traditions, obviously, are a little bit biased and in favor of the Buddhist approach. Because they have wonderfully sophisticated ways where you can understand a deeper gain a deeper understanding of the dimension of your own being, and then really start to answer these questions from your own side, but I'll pause for a second to see if that's helpful. And if you want to take it anyplace else.
I was kind of, you know, yeah, I would agree with you. I mean, it's, it's I think it's more of an experiential question, you know, in meditation, to experience blessings is or whom will be supplicating to is more of an inner inner journey. I, I think I I've connected with that in the waking state, sort of as a way of opening to, you know, just opening
Exactly, exactly. When you become more transparent, you listen to yourself, you open you open, you make yourself more available to these agencies. And so whether they're coming from within from without, does it really matter on one level, it doesn't. But you'll find in fact, a natural consequence of this type of porosity of mine is in fact the ability to gain this type of insight into the Buddhist tradition. somewhat connected to the earlier practice a question about generation deity yoga practices. Not only are they archetypes internally, but they are as real or as unreal as we are. And so therefore, you can effectively ask Amitabha to come into your dreams to help you get X, Y, Z gagne or somebody else to come in and work with you in that regard. And so this is where it couldn't be of some benefit for you if you are interested to develop a relationship during the day with the UDOT with a deity, so that you can then employ that so to speak and the service of your own wisdom and then they will come to help you and guide you. So I would actually encourage that if it speaks to you from whatever tradition you absolutely positively can evoke these agencies, these nine human super intelligences to infuse you help you guide you and bless you. So I mean, that's what I would do.
Yeah, you know, it's I feel like in the dream space, there's just so much possibility for me personally, in in, it's just so much more fluid, and it's just easier for me to do things then in the waking, you know, because things are so rare. It is hard to see the same that. Yeah, for me, at least, you know, but in the dream space. It just feels more open. You know, I'm more open, I think in a lucid dream. And so I just do it like, I feel like this actually informs my daytime practice. I was looking the other way around, sort of, to use the dream arena as a way to develop trust, you know, mostly to develop trust in that kind of, I don't know that there's that kind of I mean by saying words like benevolence and stuff like that, you know, we start to throw more fires or whatever. I mean, we tend to kind of project that aspect to to things but that's all I know, you know, I don't know anything beyond that. So it was more kind of the other way around, sort of Yeah, I think I resonate with what you say about you know, Dream Yoga as a part. Yeah, it just seems like a easier it's easier to see through things in the dream state than in real.
Means remember J says that point blank. So you have a J says that point like, you know, it's easier. It's an easier classroom to study the nature of reality to study or to study emptiness. And that's why for you, I could I mean, that's why I'm so passionate about this stuff, because it actually is an easier classroom for doing this sort of thing. So I just really encourage you to do it. And again, what you're doing when you're engaging in this stuff is you're actually you're opening up interstate traffic interstate commerce between these previously disparate states of consciousness and so you start to cross pollinate. Your waking states start to help infuse lucidity in the dream state. The insights from the dream state then paying back this is a big difference between lucid dreaming and Dream Yoga. Those insights then come back in a bidirectional way to inform transform your waking state. And so you have this virtuous feedback loop that then bootstraps each other, where you're working, and taking advantage of these, you know, amazing states of consciousness and the preciousness that we have, you know, from the time on this planet. So I couldn't agree more with the with your approach. What you're doing. Okay. Thank you. Thank
you. You're welcome. So
I'm gonna get one here. I'll come back to Colleen a second if she's still good. Let me get one that came in here from from Dallas. Andrews in Seattle Sounders are 1/3 of Tantra. What are the other two thirds? Yes. The other two thirds would be the inner yogas. And then the other third would be the formless meditation. So you have deity yoga generation stage practice. Or you could say your generation stage practice is 1/3 completion stage practices. 1/3. That's also formless meditation. The inner yoga is or 1/3 Okay. Okay, hmm, already, I'm going to come back to you because I can't because I already answered one for you. Barry anyone interested in the six years of de ropa may check out the following online training. Rob robo advisor uni is six years and the goomba Yeah, that's an Europace. Sister. With Glen Mullen. He's a character. Yeah. Thanks, Barry. Glen is Glen is a real pistol. He's great. He's really great. Okay. All right. So quickly. Yeah. Are you good luck. Can you come back on? Alright, amuse yourself here.
Yeah, sorry.
There you go. Now we can hear you without that alarm.
So a few weeks ago, I had this series of three dreams. And I don't really know what to say about them. I tried to write about them, but they weren't. There weren't any things in the dream. There weren't any people or there was one shape that sort of keeps coming up that's like, but not even a real complete shape and in light changes, but I was present in the dream and and so when I the first night I tried to write the dream down and I just sort of wrote down what I just said and and then the next night I'd had it again. And and really I don't think there was any difference. There's I can't say they were non sensory, but they were kind of like outside of sensory and and then I had it again and that same shape. It was kind of like an envelope part of an envelope thing. And that was a most form that I saw. But I just don't know what to do with them. And then after the third one, it didn't happen anymore. But it does come to me in when I sit you know, it sort of comes up again.
So what qualities are definitely awesome ideas. So can you say a little bit more about the felt quality? I mean, what is what is both the somatic quality and also the effect of quality? I mean, what do you register on those domains?
It's, it's certainly it doesn't really have very much affective quality. It's not pleasant. It's not. It's neither pleasant. I had never any resistance to it. I was curious about it.
Okay. So the curiosity comes from the fact that these things are almost again, I'm just going to throw out some words. So let me put them in your mouth but these are almost like protoplasmic pre image GISTIC dreams in other words, there's no fully reified formed entity said there's they aren't sensory, but there's still something appearing but there isn't some kind of Yeah, just like or something you can wrap your
Exactly, yeah. And like, but not sound.
So so these are great. This is like stage eight, stage nine, Dream Yoga, because or lead towards that dimension because before the dream actually crystallizes into any discernible, articulated image is actually going to manifest as a as a pre pre formed kind of energetic and so what what is actually being communicated to something that is actually a little bit more foundational to even the dream itself. So it's like it's like a germinative stage coming out of complete formlessness manifesting into the into the solid, reified dimension of the articulate dream itself. So there's this kind of intermediate bandwidth of this kind of protoplasm of awareness of what's actually taking place before the dream crystallizes into something that's more familiar, recognizable, and you can almost in your own languaging sensory and so what I would do is just perhaps, explore it as such, and maybe maybe what can you actually do with it? I mean, one is just simply become more familiar with it. Just simply witness it, become more familiar with it. And then if you can develop the capacity to actually somehow stay with it, and then see what happens when it dissolves for instance, right? Where does it take you when it dissolves? I might recommend that as an instruction because it will then take you back into that from which it arises Turia so you'll be able to follow that back into the formless dimension from which it arose. So these are very interesting states of mind their their energetic qualities, somewhat connected again with some Bolkiah these kinds of energetic preformed dimensions that you can really learn about what takes place behind the curtain, before even at the images at the level of a dream start to crystallize into the dream itself.
So it did at one point, just remember to let go like just allow it and it was like a holding of it or, you know, but it didn't it didn't. But my relationship tip to what was
what was your relationship to her prior to that?
Well? Yeah, exactly. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you know, once you read, I can remember this thought soup. It was like I could see that there could be thoughts, but there weren't and you know, and with there was a lot of activity. And, and it was it was similar, but not really, but not the same. My relationship to it was maybe there was some contraction because it was immaculately meant when I let go, just but I didn't fear it. It was just unusual.
Yeah, exactly. So that's, that's pretty much what I was intuiting and so again, always, always is a default. If you can kind of step back witness let go and just let it play out. That will probably be the greatest insight. And so when you have the sense of contraction or references, honestly, part of it is because you are in fact trying to understand it. And that's great, but I wouldn't try to understand it when you're having it. I would try to understand it, like post experience, right? Don't try to understand it. When you have any experience. Let the experience unfold. It'll be clear enough it'll be registered in your memory, then you come out of the experience, then you can try to understand it. Because if you're
trying to understand it, you know, I mean that is it seems like that's what I'm trying to do, but it gets into the head instead of
exactly. So don't do it. When you have the experience. Just let the experience, allow itself, let it let it do whatever it's going to do. Get out of the way. It will do whatever it's going to do. And then you can discuss it in situations like this. You can work with it. You can retrospectively come back and then try to understand it. Don't try to understand it when you're having it. Okay, okay, thank you. Thank you. So great to see you. Yes,
thank you. So good to
take care of you. Okay. Keenan fire away bud.
Hi, Andrew, good to see you. Sorry. Okay, so earlier you were talking about how in Buddhism there is a difference from Advaita Vedanta of consciousness like a higher, higher level and I just wanted Yeah, I just wanted to kind of check in with you because I'm just these days I've been exploring this concept which is in Kashmir Shaivism and Indian philosophy called perma Shiva, which is beyond Shiva and Shakti or consciousness or an awareness of off being conscious I suppose. So I was just wondering if you would suggest some exploration or anything.
You might listen listen to the conversation. I had an edge of mind with Swami syrupy Ananda because we get into this a little bit. And basically, he it really is. It really is principally a semantic issue. So I wouldn't get too tongue tied in with this. It's just the Buddhists are a little bit more fussy with the granularity about using this word consciousness. And so I asked Swami, because we're talking about emptiness, and I asked him I said in your languaging is from Advaita Vedanta Can you associate pure consciousness with emptiness? And he said, Yes. And so again, what is languaging pure consciousness is an oxymoron. There's no such thing. And I actually liked the way they centrifuge that out. I liked the granularity. Because when when people get into this whole consciousness thing, it can get a little fuzzy. And so what we're trying to do with the languaging with all these things, we're fundamentally trying to bring a level of clarity and articulation which our languaging can represent the sub to a domain that's otherwise really fuzzy and wooly and inarticulate, you know, like mind consciousness awareness. Like what are you really talking about? Well, the Buddhists get super interested in essence, they debated and they have incredible systems of articulation. I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that granularity. So it's not in any way an overt criticism of Kashmir Shaivism I'm a huge student event. In fact, I'm just devouring the sponder characters right now the whole sponder doctrine is blowing me away. It's just that the the Buddhist languaging around this just has this particular differentiation, which I resonate.
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And my concern is more from my own understanding.
Yeah, well fight if there's something anywhere else, you want to go with it as far away.
I guess the only thing that comes to mind as I was recently reading some quotes by Nisargadatta Maharaj. And he repeatedly one of the things that I find different than his works is that he repeatedly says that the sense of I am ness is itself a spontaneously emerging phenomena for something that's even beyond it, which is different than what you would not hear from other Advaita scholars as per my reading, so I was just curious if you had to describe it if it was possible as a pointer, what would this place we
can't describe it. That's the key. It's ineffable. It's beyond language. I mean, the better the better thing to do would be to dance it to write a poem or or express it in a painting. I mean, the minute you reified into any language, any instantiation of language, you're screwed, you know what it's Korzybski Say whatever you say it is it isn't. And so really the best ways is, you know, the via negativa the apophatic way you actually the most accurate descriptions articulations of what it is not the minute you start to assert it from Buddhist languaging. This is the colossally important difference between Prasanna gamma Jamocha and Shantanu Jonica. Where you're not you're no longer trying to affirm anything. You're just basically negating non affirming negation. So I can understand this data and also, Rupert spyera and many other really beautiful, wonderful, elegant people talking about the I am quality. But you know, the Buddhists would just shred that notion. I mean, they would just decimate it. But what Rupert says that I really like on a provisional level if you really understand the limitations and when you say I am because even those two have to really be taken apart. He says the quality I am is what we label to this notion of our understanding of this mind at large. And so if you just define everything and you put quotation mark runs everything, and you qualify the beans out of everything. You can say certain things. But what Rumi said you know, silence is the language of God. Silence is the language of reality. All else is poor translation. So that's why we meditate. That's why we go beyond hearing and even contemplating into meditating the third of the three pedagogical approaches for full digestion, metabolism and incorporation. Were the fundamental Gnosis commonest from direct experiential, what do they call it? You'll get direct valid cognition, completely beyond concept completely beyond got they got they got a beyond everything. That's when you know, and then when you come out, then you struggle as a poet as an artist as a writer, and you drive yourself nuts trying to put this it's trying to shrink wrap infinity into these phonemes into these language bits. That just doesn't work, man. So you I think you understand that and so yeah, I'm not sure where else to run with this.
Yeah, just one maybe one. One last thing. I might be saying something totally wrong. Please. Correct me if I am. So I've had like, kind of like meditative experiences where the sense like a thought appears, but there is no sense of its ownership. Oh, that's nice. And this is coming from memory now. So
it usually does come from memory. It won't, it won't actually come and you're having the experience. Right? Right. It comes postscript. Just like with Willie's question. Yeah.
And I wanted to kind of connect it with like somewhat of a regular experience, which is oftentimes we are not aware you're driving a car or doing an activity and then that awareness comes in and of course it can be at one level I would say I'm distracted but sometimes there is not that feeling of distraction. I'm wondering if that any thought that appears. In in the space when you you become aware would that might be the same space that we're referring to?
Yes, absolutely, positively. And therefore thoughts are never the problem. This is this is the point here. Thoughts are never the problem. Thoughts are just the spontaneous radiance, the leela, the Rolpa the play of the mind. Thoughts are just the play and so when you have this experience, which is quite beautiful, this non referential, it's a lucid thought. This is a lucid thought experience is a non referential non dual relationship to a thought the thought arises of itself, thoughts without a thinker. You had the experience, but there's no thinker there. That's really beautiful. I mean, that that's when the mind is so infused with space that whatever arises, arises reflexively aware, there is no thinker, there's just the display the shine, the spark, the radiance of the thought itself. And what you probably notice retrospectively is when you have a thought like that, what does it do itself liberates it doesn't give birth to another thought. Linking thinking so you're talking about non dualistic thinking. There is non dualistic thinking that's a non dualistic thought. That's what it is. And in the mind of the buddha, that's the way these thoughts play out. They arise completely self liberate like campfire spark dissolving into the nighttime sky. They leave no trace. They don't link up and they just, that's just the play of the mind driven by the inner winds. And so that's a beautiful experience, well said, and to whatever extent cultivate that. Just nurture that so how that ties into the car driving thing, that's a different thing. I think that's probably more just spacing out, but I can't say for sure.
I guess I was I was checking that I find myself more relaxed with this before earlier when this kind of experience I have is I was like, Oh, I was mindless. And you know, I have to I have to become mindful. And now I find myself often very relaxed, that it's not a problem.
Let me interrupt that regularly. Because that's the near enemy of this experience. Okay. That's the near enemy. And that's why I was thinking about the driving thing because I don't think that was it. That's the near enemy of this where in fact you are spacing out the thoughts arising. There's a momentary sense that you're not there you are there. It's just behind a little fog bank. So that's the near me of this and it's extremely subtle, but there's definitely a difference because otherwise what you're doing is you're you're just kind of gapping out in a pejorative way, instead of just allowing that to arise reflexively aware, and then instantly, spontaneously self liberates. So there that's a colossal near enemy of what you're talking about.
That makes sense because the former kind of experience that I was referring to has had a profound sense of reality, and a perfume that that stays after that. Whereas this one, there really wasn't that perfume.
I find it. Yeah. Good stuff.
Thank you so much.
Okay, so we can do Glen and then we're getting close to finishing up. So hey, Glenn.
Hi, um, I'm in San Francisco and we have Navy jets flying all over so it gets really loud. I'm sorry, I can't do anything about that. We're like
I said, so far, so go ahead, fire.
Okay. Well, they just stopped. So I have one and a half questions that come from your recent interviews. The second Bernardo kastrup interview. When he says that it is he thinks near impossible to come to and know Buddha nature. You let him go and just think about that. Just let him go.
I didn't I didn't absolutely let him go. There are a couple of things. I love this guy to death. And I think he's unbelievable thinker. But this is a tricky thing with my guests, right? I have to be extremely politic, to not just like, call them out on all these sorts of things. I wanted Bernardo to run with it, which he did. And I thought it was brilliant. But there were a couple of things he said that I definitely did not agree with. And I didn't it just didn't feel appropriate at the time to say hey, wait a minute, Bernardo. Let's, let's take this puppy apart. I felt if I did that, I would have interrupted the stream that he was on. But retrospectively, I'm glad you caught that. It was like boy, I wrote the note down and I said, you know, do I stop him right now? And so there are a couple of things he said that that again, the other one would be the benefits in nature reality. Remember when he talked about that? He said, he goes, I don't think that's the way it is. Memory gave the whole example of the lion being eaten or the elephant being eaten. I mean, I thought that was also a little bit different from my understanding, but anyway, I cut you off. Yeah, there are a couple of things he said there that didn't quite fully land with me. So
well, that's interesting. And I contrast it with the end of the second Christopher bass interview. Where if I understand the terminology, right, Christopher is talking about getting to the point where he realizes that there's an evolutionary consciousness developing and you really take him to task for that. And I noticed you didn't do that with Bernardo. So Well, part of the reason was
I had two separate sessions with Chris and and it's always a little bit i, this is part of the dance. I'm not I'm not trained as a podcaster. I'm a nerd. I'm an intellectual that reads stupid books and then talks to people. And so I'm learning this is an honor on the job training for me, you know, with these podcasts stuff, I'm not a podcaster. So with with Chris, I just felt with him. Especially since this was my neck my second like, close to five hours with a guy. I just felt I could I could politely call him a little bit and say, This is not what the tradition say. This is not my understanding. And he was he was okay with like, dancing with that. And so sometimes I just make these calls spontaneously with my guests. And with Bernardo to me at the time, it just, it just didn't feel quite right for me to come in there and say, Hey, wait a second. Wait a second. So it's just, you know, what do you do right, that's just what I did.
Well, Christopher has a guru Right? Or maybe he
he's about to enter practitioner I he studies a little bit with someone, Leone, I don't know if if she's his main teacher. I don't know. I mean, he's a tantric practitioner, but I don't know his lineage or what he is. And so that's another reason I felt I could go a little bit farther, you know, we have a little bit more connection. Bernardo is a brilliant, brilliant guy, but he doesn't really rule that much in the meditative, contemplative spiritual world. He does mostly with his connection with Rupert, but he's a scientist. He's an intellect, he's a scholar. And so therefore, there are tremendous areas of confluence resonance, but there are also areas where hey, you know, this, this doesn't relate to the world as I've come to understand it, and it's always a little bit tricky to again, get in there and you know, I mean, if I had to the ground rules where I said in advance, Hey, are you okay? With a little of Dharma combat? Then I'm more you know, I'm more willing to kind of get in there a little bit with some of these people. But I also want to be just a gracious host and let it go. But I'm glad you caught that because there were a couple of things there as well.
They're both really enjoyable podcasts. So thank you. Yeah.
So is that is that both one and a half? Oh,
that's it. Yeah, that was, yeah.
Nice to see it. But one last thing here from Tim there on the chat column, and then we'll close it up for today. Do you think our karmic debt with another person can be mitigated balanced out or at least greatly lessened through Dream Yoga? Or can we only do that with the interaction on the physical plane? For sure, absolutely, positively Tim. And so many teachers say this ALAN WALLACE, the classic teachers will all tell you, you absolutely positively can purify your karma in Dream Yoga. One example here. The first Karmapa twosome Kempa. In the year 1041 started the whole Tuco lineage thing, attained his alignment. And he said Dream Yoga is what did it for him. So in order to attain enlightenment, you got to clean up your karmic act. So he cleaned up all his karma. Again, to whatever extent I don't really know how to do the practice of going to yoga. So absolutely, positively basketball, you do the practices. Okay. So hey, anyway, we were done for today. Thanks, everybody. So if I get a little speedy here, but I want to get through just a ton of questions in a short period of time. So I ended up talking a little bit faster than I'd like but at the end what we do is we dedicate all the merit. It's a big part of what we talk about in the puroland teachings by the way, because a merit is what creates if your lands but anything that we've done a value we send out to all the people in Ukraine, all the people that are suffering, suffering all the sentient beings on this planet, always remember that what we're doing is not just for ourselves, it's really for others. It's for helping the world. So always maintain this larger framework. And then if you want to do it, you can turn on your camera. You can turn release your mute button, we can all say this very geeky. Goodbye. Great to see everybody. See you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.
