She's worked for Chicago's biggest newspapers, and he's worked for Chicago's most successful radio stations. And now, they do email
WBEZ. They kept saying, Would you like to read our newsletter? And I'm like, Are you kidding me? I have a reporter stop with the the, the the insulting questions. And now like I love
it. Monica Aang is a longtime Chicago reporter who's covered food culture, health and the environment for the Chicago Sun Times, The Chicago Tribune and yes, also at a radio station WBEZ Justin Kaufman's a former talk show host and producer in Chicago at WBEZ and WGN. Radio, they've teamed up to create the Axios Chicago newsletter rounding up the day's biggest Chicago news plus coverage of their passions, including food and sports.
Chicago is a different place. It is going to be a different it should be a different newsletter than Denver. It should be a different newsletter than San Francisco.
Coming to you despite a cough congestion and a mild fever that a test assures me Do not signify COVID-19 I am a well medicated Charlie Meyerson with rivet 360 in Chicago Public Square, which yes, is also an email newsletter. And this is Chicago media talks. Justin, what did you want to be when you grew up? And how did that lead you into Chicago radio?
You know, it's funny I My dad always reminds me that I was really into DePaul blue demon basketball when I was a kid and I would write up stories like sports stories of the games that they would show on channel nine at the time, or whatever they're showing, like when DePaul would pay like Creighton, or Georgetown. And I would write he showed me when I was older like these write ups I so I think I wanted to be a sports writer in some form. But I you know, to be honest, I was big. I really wanted to be in radio. I love the idea I had my own. I did the announcements in high school and a lot of things that end up where I ended up to be a talk show host. So I think that that's what I wanted to be high school
announcements. You and I have that in common. Monica, what did you want to be when you grew up? And how has that shaped your career?
I had no idea. But by the time I was 15, and my mom was dating Roger Ebert. He said, Hey, so do one of your kids need a job this summer as well. I'm not going to be doing anything but watching TV. So maybe I'll I'll go try this thing called being a copy clerk at the Chicago Sun Times. And from the first day, I started working in the features department to the Chicago Sun Times in 1985. I, I fell in love with it. That's all I ever wanted to do be a newspaper woman or a a news woman. I did not envision I would be an email or Thanks for calling me that.
It's an honorable profession. It's honor, there was no email
at the time, which was why I had a job. You know, putting the male in the slots at the Chicago Sun Times.
How and when did you two first meet?
Who? Oh, that's a good question. Monica was a world renowned, you know, in Chicago media. And I think I booked her a couple times on on talk shows on WBEZ. And then, you know, when when Monica was looking to make a career change, she came over to WBEZ. So we worked together at WBC for a couple of years. Working on talk shows and, and reporting.
Yeah, well, yeah, I remember I remember. I used to hear you on the radio. And I was always a huge fan of WPC, and then you know, you, you'd say, Hey, can you come on and talk about your Tribune stories? And I thought, Oh, this is fun. So when you said, hey, there might be a spot here. Like, you know what? Get little sick of the Tribune, maybe think about that. But as you recall, hiring at Public Radio, sometimes takes a little time. So I think we were doing that dance for a couple of years.
Yeah, we had a lot of lunches at Fox Nobel, which is that high end grocery store over on a
tribune tower and WBEZ
How did you come to be a team on the Axio Chicago newsletter,
Justin had already been working with the Axios daily podcast. So he kind of knew about that world. And we both had had worked with Nyla boo at WBEZ. And she was already there. She was quite an evangelist for the place. And I thought, whatever, I've never really even heard of this thing. And so when she taught both told us both about it, I think we're like, Well, let's take a look at this. I don't think either of us were like super sure we wanted to do a newsletter because obviously we had different skills. We didn't like who has newsletters? No do people like graduate college knowing how to do this?
Yeah, I will say Charlie that the one thing that that grabbed our attention I think what what looking at what Axios was doing with newsletters, not just in the local markets, but what they were doing with Mike Allen and others who do the national newsletters is they really did feel like a written talk show. And if you if you look at Mike's am Axios am that's what it is. Mike is hosting a talk show he's doing, you know, and he's doing articles instead of segments but but it really had his vibe, his energy to it. He's connecting to his readers. He's engaging, he's going back and forth. It reminded me a lot of of what I was doing at WGN radio when I was doing a WB EC with reset So it was an easy opportunity when when they said they wanted to do it for Chicago, you know, it was a, it was a no brainer to say, Okay, well, you know, could you do a talk show in an email format. And that's what we've been, that's really our ethos, our mission statement, our philosophy, Monica and I, that this is a talk show in an email format, and it seems to be working.
In fact, when we are when we're over length on these newsletters, Justin's like, oh, we gotta cut it for time. Like Justin, we're not doing radio, cutting different time. And it's hard to
lose the little radio things like cut for time. Listeners, I always I always our readers or listeners, I always say that
it's easy to get those mixed up and you know, sharing some of that same professional DNA with you guys. I know that one of the one of the hardest things I find in creating an email newsletter is, is deciding what not to put in. Because, as Monique has said, there's no time restriction, there's no length restriction, and deciding what doesn't go in is harder than deciding what does go in. How do you wrestle with that?
Well, we do have a length, we did nothing over 950 words. But that that does make it harder. I mean, Chicago was full of, you know, a million stories and then they could city. And so how do you choose, you know, four or five days it says here a terrible Sophie's choice to make
that has been an issue where I think a lot of the editors and everyone were like, you know, you're gonna have to do this every day, you're gonna watch out finding content will be an issue for Monica and I because we've covered the city for years. And you know, this, Charlie, read your newsletters and same idea. There's you could do 50 stories, you could do 100 stories. I mean, there's there's time as there's nothing so you're just like, yeah, everything I every night at 10 o'clock at night, after we put the thing to bed, I'm like, Darn it, we didn't talk about this, or we didn't do this. And that. And that reminds me of when I worked at beteasy and GN as well, where you would be down on yourself because you missed the topic that you think that Chicago wanted to talk about.
As we record this August 22 2022, you've been with Axios, just a bit more than a year, what's been a high point of that year or so with Axios
I think the to me, the highlight has been just connecting with Chicago readers. The I mean, this is a I would have never thought this would be this successful. I mean, at the time we taped this, we're over 80,000 people who are signed up for it. The open rate is in way above the average. And people are engaging and sending us emails on a daily basis on every story we do. It's way more than I ever had at WGN or WBC. I think that that has much to do with the format. I mean, people are at their computers are like I can easily respond to this. But that has been the high point to me is watching that sort of evolved engagement from some of the other things that were I mean, you know, Charlie talk radio is all about engaged. So by getting people on the phone, like that's where it's support, you think that's ingrained in the in the secret sauce of an am talk radio station, like WGN but this is the supersized, um, we're talking hundreds and hundreds of emails and people who want to engage, they
can be overwhelming at times. Because yeah, it's like, oh, I want to respond to all 150 people who wrote to us today sharing you know, where they like to go you know, for a picnic in Chicago, or you know, what they remember about Tower Records. So, yeah, similarly, I think, you know, the the engagement. Yeah, I got, of course, I got COVID During our first or before our first retreat, so I couldn't go and Justin just loves to rub it out about how fun it was.
It was such a fun time without Monica. That really I think that's the secret sauce is that Monica wasn't there.
Leave that on wet blanket home.
All right, how about the low point of your first year with Axios? Monica?
Oh, Jeepers, I wouldn't say low point. But you know, I think you know, breaking news. You know what, during the strike during the when Oh, McCrone was raging and the CPS and CTU were fighting. We were doing really long days. And it was like, oh, shoot, something else just happened. Let's you know, break the thing open again. It can kind of it's actually very exciting to cover breaking news, but But it it was wearing and I think you know, and well and then the Highland Park thing, you know, day after day, you know turns into a manhunt it turns into to these things. And our bosses are actually great. They're like, look, are you guys feeling worn down? What can we do to to kind of rejuvenate you,
I think, you know, because we are news, you know, media creatures, at best and at heart that it becomes really difficult to shut it off. And so you know, if there are breaking news stories on top of breaking news stories, we're not the type to bury our head in the sand. We're the type to say it doesn't matter if it's eight o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock, we get up and we start working again. And that that is not it's just part of the pitfalls of the job. I mean that you get burnout you. You don't get a chance to have any sort of renewal moment or, you know, time to rest. You just gotta keep going.
Just six years after its founding Axios is being bought by Cox enterprises, cable communications is historically a newspaper company for a little more than half a billion dollars? What's that mean for you? And Axio? Chicago? Are you both millionaires now?
Well, I guess quasi millionaires maybe like, multi. It's actually, you know, I've been And Justin's been at companies that have been bought before, and it's usually bad bad news. It actually appears to be good news, in this case. And, and our bosses, you know, made sure that they got a really good deal for employees as well. As far as we can tell, they're not going to touch the journalism, they just actually want more local journalism COC seems to really love the the local end of this. And so I think it means we get more love and, and, and our bosses are talking about this as a multi generational thing. They want X us to be around generations after they're gone. And I think, you know, as far as I can tell, that's, that's really gonna help with this. Yeah, they're saying all the right
thing, when you say good deal for employees, for you know, what, what does that really mean, we get to
sell a third of our stock. So everyone is vested, even people have been there a short time, and you can sell a third of your stock to Cox and then later, we can sell it for actually an even better deal. You know, depending on the valuation of the company at the time, you
know, Axios is a young company. And it is interesting to see the difference in philosophy and styles what a young company is bought, as opposed to an older company. And I've been on both sides of the spectrum, I was there when WGN radio was sold to NexStar, before that tried to be sold to Sinclair, that is a different feeling. That's a feeling of dread. And you know, they're coming in to change formats or cut or like even work in the newspapers. That's not what this is, this is a win for Axios, they got a media company to, to buy the product for a pretty sizable amount of money. And they look at it as this is an indicator and and also, I would think, a encouraging sign that people are interested in the future of local news.
Between the two of you, you have a by my count, more than half a century of experience in newspapers and radio. What's your take on this, this email news business? Is it a fad? Is it here for the long run? Is it the successor in in any way to traditional radio and television? Or is it something that you expect is going to fade away as something else comes
along? Well, I will say this, I think that, you know, obviously you've been a pioneer and doing email, and you've you found your your your voice, and that's really what it's about. It's not that everybody can go to email and, and be like, Alright, I'm just going to transfer my product to this new format that's going to work. I mean, it's the same tenants are still involved. You have to have, you know, you have to be engaging, you have to have personality, it's about the tone, everything is the same. It's just you're using words, and I think it's very akin to maybe what we saw in the early 2000s, with the blog movement. I think that that was something that at first people were like, what you're gonna put your this is in the newspaper, it's digital, what are we doing? And you saw some that became very successful and very profitable, and some that were middle of the road and some that died off. And I think that newsletters, especially independent newsletters, are in the same ballpark. I think it's the same game. It's just evolved. And I think that advertisers are more interested in putting their money into email newsletters, because it's been tried and true by now.
Yeah, if you'd asked me a year ago, I would have said what the heck email newsletters, I mean, actually, I'll be honest at WBEZ they kept saying, Would you like to read our newsletter? And I'm like, Are you kidding me? I have a reporter stop with the the the the insulting questions. And now I'm like, I love it. And it really is meeting people where they are people our age still open email. My daughter, she's like, can you just text it to me, mom? So maybe like these will be texted in the future. But it's it's respecting their time. It's curating for them. And it's yeah, it's it's it's going into the box that they open every morning. I think
it's all about I think it's all about advertising. And I think that the the audience has been there, Charlie, you We did it together at Bz.
Let's be transparent. You hired me to do web easy's. Yeah, well, it wasn't even WBEZ in 2013 was not set up to send email to readers. So I did what should have been email but was just a blog at the time. Yeah.
But it was a news blog. It was similar. It's similar in the way that what you do right now it's square. I mean, it was a very similar idea. But that is where this I mean, you could see the evolution from those kinds of posts that were important to that people were would go to the to the URL to check it out every morning to see what Charlie had to say about Chicago news. Now, they've just like podcasts, they figured out a way to take these blog posts and give them right to you in an email format. And that is that I mean, if you really think about podcasts, that's where the world changed when you were doing radio and it was appointment and I had to go to a dial I had to actually punch the numbers in now they found technology that just puts it on my phone when I wake up. And that's a big difference. That's why you have you know, so many audio, so much audience there because they're not having to do anything. It's almost like you know, we've the media industry is finally figuring out, you have to go where the audience is at as opposed to trying to get them to come to you.
A colleague in the broadcast business once talked about his organization's ability to train the listeners to do certain things at certain times. That seems to be a notion that I think is going away. I don't even know when my favorite TV shows are on, they just show up on my TV when I when I want to watch when you're
ready to watch them exactly. Right. I mean, I watched I watched two or three TV shows over the weekend that were season finales from two weeks ago. You know, and the idea being that I didn't have any problem with it. I knew how to avoid the spoilers. It's not It's we're not living in this collective Zeitgeist anymore. Where, you know, everybody's watching one episode of lost. You know, there's a lot going on. And I feel like that is the same with we talked about podcasts, you talking about newsletters, talking about news. And I think that what I find interesting is just the idea that, you know, Monica and I are, we get this all the time from listeners or readers. Sorry, there you go. That that's a, I get all my stuff from you. You know that I'm scary. Come on, guys, you shouldn't be scary. You should meet other stuff for sure. I mean, but I think it'd be the same with your readers, Charlie. I mean, they're coming to you, they can go get the stories from different places. But they're coming to you for that five, three to five minutes in the morning. For them to say, this is what I this is what's going on. And this is what I need to know what's going on,
you know, we read the news. So you don't have to is one approach to email newsletters, I think, how has the pandemic played out for you, as you create the axial Chicago newsletter, Monica? Well, we
started it, you know, let me get like 1/3 or halfway into the pandemic. And so, you know, I am, I'm thrilled to be at an organization that says we will be remote all the time. If you if you're in New York, and you want to go to New York office, or in Alex or in Virginia and want to go there, that's great. But they they say Home is where your offices and we get a nice fat stipend every month to make our our home a nicer place. And you can spend it on flowers or a dog or whatever, dog, I'm impressed. I mean, anything that will make your home a nicer place to do your job. But for younger people for whom work is like the place where you're gonna meet your mate, and you can learn from older journalists, I could see how it's a problem. The world, you know, we know it all.
And we're both youngsters compared to me. Justin, how does the pandemic play out for you?
Well, I mean, I left I gotta, you know, tossed out a WGN radio, right? When the pandemic started, I was on your last show. Yeah, that was right. I mean, that was right when the lockdown was happening, which is the timing is crazy. But the so I was one of the people who lost their job right when the pandemic started. And I have yet to any project that I picked up freelance, I mean, I went on to host reset, and I went into the Navy Pier studio to do that. But since then, I've done a number of projects, the Madigan podcast, in the in the access newsletter, and working for Axios today, which is the National podcast from this desk. And, you know, that has changed the world, the technology for us to be able to do this, the technology for us to be able to connect through slack and other, you know, opportunity or other platforms that give us an immediate connection is great. Now, I will say that What I miss is the creativity through collaboration, which was brought up in DC. I mean, when we went to the Axios retreat, they had an all staff retreat in DC, that was a big thing that the CEOs and the founders talked about, as they said, we have to do more of these. Because you do find yourself coming out of those, like, you know, talking to the crew from Dallas or the crew from Tampa or the crew from Salt Lake City, or Seattle and becoming friends and saying we should do something Detroit. You know, when we bid like all that kind of like conversation is amazing. It really gets your creative juices flowing. And so that we miss for sure. And even Monica and I who have a great shorthand, we don't see each other in person enough. Now luckily, we're on the same softball team and that softball team is winning. It's a winning team. So it's
we're losing you know, it'd be a sort of an angry confrontation.
Well, that brings me to my next question coincidentally which is that your passions shine through in almost every issue Monica food and Justin sports Justin, we're in the thick of the season for your passion and passion is putting it mildly because I've played against you Chicago's cup media softball league name for sometimes columnist Earth cups in it. How's it going? Justin?
It is good. I you know, there's some some really good teams this year in that league and the league is great, because come on there. It's a passion of mine because I love the sport. And I really start to learn the nuances and the history of 16 and softball. The 16 is softball Hall of Fame and Forest Park is a tremendous place to learn more about, you know, our forefathers, and you know how they played softball and how softball is Chicago's sport. So So it is really great to be out here and like a night like tonight we're gonna play tonight as we're taping this, we're gonna we're gonna play on a beautiful night at 75 degrees in Chicago Park on the west side. You know, it's it doesn't get more Chicago than that. So like the connection to the city. And I think I think it's a very inclusive sport. I think that you see really strong African American leagues. On the south side, you see really strong Latino leagues, you see suburban, a lot of car dealerships. Again, have a Chicago softball league, leagues without car dealerships, but I mean, everybody knows the game. Everybody's played it. Everybody's got a crooked finger. So I feel like it's the ultimate connector. That's why I love the sport. Yeah, the
fingers. I can identify with the fingers. That's why I'm not doing softball anymore. Monica, you're just back from your visit to the Illinois State Fair. How was it?
It's pretty disgusting. You know, the highlight was the walking a horseshoe which is you know, as you know, is Texas toasts covered in ground beef or other meat and then fries and then a bear cheese sauce. This one those are you throw all that in a tortilla, roll it up, deep fry it and then put more cheese sauce on it. I feel like it's gonna be a few years before I recover. But I have to say I loved those tiny little fried doughnuts, those like Cinna tiny cinnamon doughnuts that are warm. You pop them in your mouth, and those are no good for. But no, it was it was fun. But I think State Fair Food is is really an exercise and access and, and fun for the time you go out there. I bet I'm paying my penance. I just went to Wrigley Field over the weekend to try their plant based meats. So I got a really helpful giant helmet of nachos, covered in cheese and sour cream, but then some plant based chicken on top and a kind of shriveled up hot dog that
you will know that that definitely definitely evens it out.
No, no, like virtuous. It's like a kale salad. So yeah, but it's fun. And I know that readers can vicariously enjoy these these strange treats through me. So I'm happy to do it.
I will say this jelly, like, I just think that, you know, even beyond food and sports, you know, we both share a lot of passions, but we also have individual uniques. I mean, I'm big, you know this I'm big into politics. Monica is big into public policy and health and environment. We, you know, you mentioned sports as a passion. But I also feel like sports is a huge part of the of the stew that is Chicago news. And a lot of places I've worked BTZ is a great example of it, they ignore it. Or they think that that's not important. And I think that that's wrong. And most of the readers that that will write in are going to be sports fans in some form.
Every time I think, Oh God, Justin's writing the sports story again, we get tons of response. And so I'm so glad we balanced each other out on that, because he knows the world. And I just trust Him from now on. Yeah,
and that was it. But that's the news. I mean, if you grew up in Chicago, and you know Chicago, you know how important a Monday recap of the Bears game is.
Chicago, but I'm just like, I'm not interested. But you know that people will be,
they will be. But I think that that's the that's the I think the combination of Monica's interests in mind, together make something that is very specific and unique to Chicago, that brings people around and wants to engage because it's everything from Arts Music, to and it's different than a lot of the markets, Charlie, like if you go to some of the other Axios locals, they're just straight up reporters.
Some of them are former real estate reporters. So they love doing real estate stories. One of them is like a beer fanatic, and he does tons of beer stories. And Axios says, Let your freak flag fly man, you're into it. Our readers will like, understand your passion and get into it too.
Yeah, and you know, but you also know that like Chicago is a different place. I mean, we can we can compare ourselves to New York or LA or compare ourselves to Wisconsin and Indiana. I mean, there's, there's something about Chicago, it's cliche to say it's, you know, big city, small town kind of thing. But it it is going to be a different it should be a different newsletter than Denver, it should be a different newsletter than San Francisco. And that's what's great about it is ours is very unique, very different than the others in the market. And, and theirs are great. I mean, I read them all. I love them. I love the local
stuff. Well, at some point we're not gonna be able to it's going to be 35 by the end of the year, and then maybe 100 by 2025.
We have a question from one of our viewers on YouTube, Mike decimos. From communications and other interactions you have with your readers what seem to you to be their most serious areas of concern?
I think it's violence I think whenever we get into political stuff like like Monica wrote a great piece about Bailey, Colin Chicago hellhole again, and really the follow when they when she asked, you know, at the fair, you know, hey, do you what do you say to Chicagoans who live in that hellhole he's like, I hear from them all the time.
He says he says he believes most of us think we're living in a hellhole.
And so that's the story. And so today, it's been really thoughtful a lot of people who are like, you know, mad at Darren Bailey, but then others who say, I don't agree with the word, and he's not right. But there are some serious concerns in Chicago right now, when it comes to violence, and, you know, crime, things like that, that need to be taken, taken care of. So he's not wrong in saying that things are happening in Chicago, that shouldn't be, but the way that he's using the words that he's choosing are too political, divisive, or just straight up wrong. So I think that that's what we get, mostly when we do police stories, or we do violent stories, anything like that, you'll get responses that are much more divisive than you would think. Like, it's not We're not an echo chamber. But I think what you notice the most is people get upset about, you know, the mayor, and where we are when it comes to crime.
Monica, yes, well, the same they say oh, to talk more about crime, and I say we cover crime, but I don't think Chicago is defined by crime. We want to also remember why we love this city. And that's also what this newsletter is about. So we try to be balanced. You know, one person said, You guys are a sort of glass half full? I don't know. But I know that I would want to open up something that is glass half full, and, and not just be bludgeoned by how horrible this place is every morning. I'm not sure I wouldn't open up that email every morning.
Well, you know, Charlie, I mean, you do your newsletter. Every morning, you could spend the first 15 links on crime stories. The 10 O'Clock News loves it. Oh, my God, from 10 to 1015. Is every carjacking that happened in the city, they love it, they put reporters on it,
which is what our parents are all like this city. How do you love it? Like stop watching the news? Mom,
there has to be a study at some point, I'm sure we used to have think tanks that would do this. And maybe they still do about the role. The 10 O'Clock News is played in how people see their city because it used to be what 10 to 1004 I'm, I'm an idiot savant when it comes to this stuff, because I watch it and I mark where the stories are at. But it used to be maybe you get the first two stories that were violence. I'm seeing now like almost to the first through the first commercial break. And and you can I feel like you could cherry pick a lot of that stuff, because you know, it'll be carjacking here. Somebody got mugged over here somewhere, you know, things like that. And, you know, that is a big story in Chicago. But it's not the only story. And when you're talking about millions of people, I mean, what, two to 7 million in in Chicago, and then you go outside of that to people like 9 million in the whole like area, of course there's going to be crime. So and I'm not saying that Chicago doesn't have a crime problem that we talk about it all the time. But I think that it's it's a strange world we live in where the people who are charged with documenting what's happening in our city are spending 10 A third of their time talking about crime.
Closing thoughts, Justin,
I, you know, I can't have a conversation about the future of this kind of work without pointing out what you've done for Chicago. And, you know, obviously, the Chicago Public Square has been there and done a lot so far and, and continues to lead. You know, there wouldn't be an Axios newsletter, or political newsletter or any of the newsletters that came in if there weren't independents that tried and show that it was successful before. Closing thoughts, Monica?
Well, I'm just glad that you you saw fit to have us on Word. You know, we type all day and we don't get to use our talking muscles that much. Thank you so much for doing it. And thanks for amplifying our stories sometimes. That that really helps. And I think it shows that, you know, a lot of people say Oh, Axios is trying to kill local journalism, it's going into these markets, and a certain leader of a certain large news organization in Chicago. You know, try it said you'll never be us. And it's like, dude, or maybe it was a woman. Yeah, we're not trying to be we're trying to be additive to the local news environment. I think we can all support each other. Because more information for Chicago is only good for Chicago.
Yeah. I don't know if you get anyone asking you about other email newsletters as if their competition sounds like you do. But you know, every once in a while, someone will ask me and I want to say publicly, the more email newsletters for and about Chicago, the better especially if as Axio Chicago does, it comes out before me so that I can link to your work makes my newsletter all the better.
Yeah. And we're the same. I mean, we when we talk to any I mean the people writing Chicago newsletters are great. I think she is awesome working at political Hunter at WBEZ the folks at the sun times in the tribune do great work. So you know, it's I don't know if they just because we're, it's so funny, because for years, we've all worked at different media outlets and then we've changed you know, we're we're all friends and personal Yeah.
When I was at when I was at the State Fair covering, Pritzker. You know, some of us couldn't get close to him. And so Amanda vinicky was taking my phone and making calls was there and then I took the NPR person's mic and moved it closer we're we're all just helping each other and I think that that's the spirit we should see it in.
