Authors in Conversation, Ep. 6 — Judy Tzu-Chun Wui & Alfred Peredo Flores discuss Tip of the Spear

6:45PM Jul 18, 2024

Speakers:

Judy Tzu-Chun Wu

Alfred Peredo Flores

Keywords:

militarism

land

guam

experiences

book

records

bases

settler colonialism

airport

part

stories

labor

triangulation

alfred

island

work

philippines

filipino workers

western pacific

scholar

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Authors in Conversation series, a podcast in the US in the World Series at Cornell University Press. I'm Judy Tzu-Chun Wu one of the editors of this series, and I'm going to be speaking to Alfred Peredo Flores, author of Tip of the Spear, Land, Labor, and US Settler Militarism in Guåhan, 1944–1962, which was published last year, in 2023. So welcome, Alfred, I'm so glad to be in conversation with you today.

Thank you, Judy, I appreciate being in virtual space with you.

I wanted to begin with your beginning, you have this really beautiful memory of visiting your paternal grandparents in Southern California, and how they recreate the feel of a land show or a ranch in my hand. And you describe in loving detail, which makes me very hungry about outdoor barbecues, the family cookout, just a feeling of extended family and community that you experience in that setting. And I want you to just share with us why it was so important for you to have this introduction to your book.

No, thanks, Judy. No, I think for a variety different reasons, but two main points are think really driving my that drove my decision to have or to discuss the lawsuit at the beginning of the book, and one I just wanted to really foreground what an indigenous Chamorro kind of experience was as it pertained to land because a lot of ways, you know, the book is engages, you know, the concept of settler militarism, and, you know, as a part of that process is settler colonialism. And so I felt that for readers who didn't know much about Guåhan, it would be important for me to really, you know, describe, like, you know, what land means to, to Chamorros. Right, and, and by extension, other indigenous people. So that way, when I did start to start talking about land dispossession, when I did start, you know, discuss what I did, then did discuss, you know, the transformation of the land into military bases and different military sites, it would then make sense for the readers have fought to understand like, how profound and how difficult and how challenging that these changes had for these Chamorro landowners, because the fact that their whole kind of cultural and epistemology, epistemological world was like dramtically, you know, changed. And so that's kind of more than one of the reasons why on a more kind of academic side, but also for personal side, for me, on a more personal level, it was a chance for me to reflect upon my own experiences as a diasporic Chamorro, you know, growing up in Southern California, to really have that opportunity to think about how my experiences and connections to family and to land are also a part of this larger kind of history of, you know, us militarism in Guwahati, and also in the continental US. And so, a lot of ways, it was a way for me to make things that were legible, that in a kind of more academic way that I didn't know, as a young person. So you know, as a young child of like, six or seven, you know, have all of these experiences, but I didn't know what they meant within a larger historical context. And that's where the professional and the personal got to meet for me.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Alfred. I do recall just these really emotionally touching discussions in your book about land, and how it's connected directly to a sense of the body and the sense of personhood, even the ways in which certain parts of Guwahati are described. And I think your opening does really beautifully capture that sense of deep connection to the land. You mentioned in your comments about this concept, settler militarism. And it's also in your subtitle. And I just want to invite you to talk a little bit more about thought that concept we have why is it important, and why is it significant? How does it help us make sense of your your study?

Thanks. Thank you for the question, Judy. And no, I have to give my I have to acknowledge and give credit to, you know, scholar, Juliet Nebolon, who came up with the idea of settler militarism, the concept right, the theory of settler militarism, which is you know, for those who haven't read it yet, her great article, and I'm pretty sure her book will be out, hopefully, you know, soon about if it's not already in press, but about how the structures of power of settler colonialism and militarism you know, can work together in a way to disguise one another or to legitimate one another, you know, as you know, parallel but also over lapping structures of power. And so, you know, when I came across the article, I thought it provided a really great and insightful way for me to trace, basically us militarism in Guåhan. You know, a gave me a way to then kind of blueprint and unpack like the various ways that you as militarization was happening throughout there across the across the island, right during that time period. And so it really did kind of give me a way to kind of trace those those things that were happening in a very kind of insightful way. So I really give a lot of credit and appreciate Julian, Julian Abalones work and really, you know, pushing our understanding.

It seems like one of the key insights, it's not necessarily about demographic dominance of settlers, but it's about the process of militarization that really takes over, you know, a physical space and the land. Would you think, would you say that that is an important distinction in the concept of southern militarism?

Definitely, you know, I think, when we think about settler colonialism, we think about militarism. One of the things that I tried to do in the book is to show readers that, you know, these, that settler colonialism through you know, militarization and militarism, specifically, are forms of settler colonialism where it doesn't require always this kind of process in which indigenous people become the minority in their homelands, but rather, the process of violence, right. And dispossession as a part of settler colonialism that I think the my I'm trying to make as an intervention or a contribution, I guess, to the literature, is to really look at how those things actually function. So it's not always about just, you know, how do indigenous people become minorities, but in their own homelands, but actually, you know, how militarism can do that same work right through the kind of permanence of bases, even though bases are not always permanent themselves. But then the lesson Guåhan, right, some of these bases have been around for, you know, over 100 years, some of them have been around for over 70 years, and some bases actually have been decommissioned. So, you know, but nonetheless, right, the potential permanence of bases as like a form of settler colonialism, for sure.

One thing that really struck me about your book was the structure of the book. And you begin by talking about the land that became the airport, in gland. And then you circle back to that topic at the very end. And in many ways that last chapter, brings together all the different themes, all the different arguments in your book. And so I wanted to invite you to to see a little bit more about why that particular site is so important for your study.

So for a variety different reasons, but one is that there's this kind of logistical reason of choosing like the airport, and one of the reasons that the terms of like just the logistic logistical reason was that the airport, which is you know, Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport. today is that it was also connected to the Naval Air Station Agaña, which was one of the largest bases during World War Two at that time period. And so that base was decommissioned in the early 1990s. And so the records that were available were much more robust versus like the records that were about, you know, Andersen Air Force Base, which is an active base, right? So there's this thing, just the terms about sources and research where logistically and you have more records to stuff that is like have been decommissioned and things that are not considered national security, right of interest. So there's that one that one element, but more importantly, I think, if we look at the airport on that site, which is referred to as Tiyan, right, is what Chamorro, was what people refer to today as Tiyan and know it as Tiyan is that it represents it's a space that represents different things to different people. I guess that's the way I would call it. So you know, there's a story in the book where I talk about the late General Blaz Ben Blaz who was who's passed, but he was one of I believe he's the highest ranking Chamorro in the US military in history. And interestingly enough, the camp the the base that they're building right now in the northern part of the Guam and northern Guam, I believe they're going to name an after him, interestingly enough, as well. But, you know, he was a part of that generation, like, actually, like my grandmother, who I mentioned to my talks, who were young Chamorros you know, children, teenagers, and some adults and elder and elders who actually worked the land. They were child laborers and tomorrow forced laborers that, you know, actually out the road I did Jungle, excuse me, and they shoveled it. And they're the ones that actually paved that runway for the Japanese right when the Japanese was occupying the island at that time period during World War Two. So for those Chamorros, you know, the connection to Teads in an airport is one that's kind of based on these really traumatic moments, right, where, you know, they didn't know if they would survive the next day, they didn't know if they would be beaten by Japanese military soldiers not working fast enough, right. They're there, their connection to places is, you know, kind of rooted in this moment. But for others that I've interviewed, you know, they talk about, like, the great times that they had there in terms of when it used to be lots of lawsuits when it was ranch land before, right, the Japanese invaded. So in the pre World War Two period, it was one of the most robust areas of ranch land that you could find throughout the island. And so for the tomorrow's that were like children or grandchildren of those people who lived there, at that time period, they talk about all the great things that they grew there, right, all the different types of fruits and vegetables and different kinds of animals that were arranged there. And so it represents, you know, like for them, not just like subsistence and these, like really robust, you know, ways that the land produced produce these things for them, but also, like, a really great place that people came together on the weekends, and they had fiestas. And they had, you know, rosaries, and they had all these different things that like my family did on the ranch that my, my, my family had in Paris, California. And so, and even today, right, I mean, the airport represents a different kind of breadbasket of Guam, that's kind of like one of the nicknames of Tiyan is like the breadbasket, right of Guam. And so, you know, for folks today, you know, the, the airport in that area represents different things to write it represents, like tourism, for the fact that the tourists, right that come to the island, the tourism industry, they come through the airport, for other people, it represents, like, you know, the small connections that they have to their ancestral ties, the, for the folks who might live there still. So you know, I just think it's a really dynamic place in terms of like memory, that, you know, Tiyan, and the airport, really, you know, allow us to see, you know, in short history,

your comments, really remind me how important the topic of infrastructure is in your book, right, the creation of roads, the building of structures, that those are all forms of settler militarism. But as you're pointing out, as well, that the people who might have been forced to construct those structures, have memories of what that land, how it was experienced, and what it meant to them. You mentioned the accessibility sources as one reason for the focus on the airport. And I was wondering if you could say a little bit more about your research methodology, because obviously, you did archival research and multiple locations, across different sites, but one of the central methodologies that you really foreground is oral history. And so could you say a little bit more about how you approached this research?

Yeah, no. So, you know, Judaism, as you know, too, as the research you've done throughout the years, and in terms of like, engaging military records, you know, a lot of times, you know, the archives, like the US National Archives, and another, you know, different government institutions, they're not always catalogued very well, you know, so a lot of times, you end up spending enormous amounts of time just sifting through boxes that people haven't looked at in a very long time, or there's very little resources allocated to in terms of like, you know, digitizing them, you know, so there's just all these kinds of ways where, you know, you spend just these massive amounts of time just going through records. And so, you know, I kind of try to have the record, speak to me in different ways without also, you know, pigeon holing or prejudging like, you know, what I would expect to find, but, you know, I kind of felt like the records that I found out, like the National Archives, they were really great, you know, giving me the insight and the perspective of the military and not and the you know, and so it's important to understand like, right to to make the point that, you know, Empire US Empire is not monolithic. It's not a monolith. Right. There's also different layers and ways that people within, you know, leaving the Empire and within part of the institution, right, have different viewpoints. But nonetheless, I think those records really gave me insight into like, you know, how the US military carried out many of these these operations and these infrastructure projects. So I would say those sources are really great at doing and providing me an understanding of how militarism functioned. And the process of militarization and itself happened in Guam, and Guåhan. Right. And so, this also, though, included the recruitment of workers that came from the Philippines, right. So you know, the vast majority of workers, the civilian military workers can I'm from the Philippines. And so, you know, once I started learning that, learning about that history, I thought it was, I thought it would be important for me to also go to the Philippines to do research there. And so that's how I ended up in the Philippines with through the help of one of my classmates, one of my classmates in grad school, who was there for the whole year, Brian and Riley. So I went stay with Brandon for like, a week and a half, and we toured all over the places trying to find records, he did his best to help me, you know, find all these sources in the Philippines. And so, you know, a lot of ways, like studying the history, you know, of militarism, in Guam, you know, and makes you end up like, basically following the same trails, and tracks of militarism itself, right, like that infrastructure. So, I was kind of following it in a kind of interesting way through this through my own travels and trying to find these archives. And so, you know, I went there. And then, and then, of course, you know, oral histories is a large part of the project, too. So, you know, I conducted about, I believe, 30, interviews, not all 30 interviews, make an incident at the end of the book. But a good number of them did make it into the, into the book, and you know, those those sources really great, and not just giving me the kind of human experience or human understanding of like, what it was this process, but more. So I think even just, just as importantly, it gave me a chance to highlight the various forms of survival, right, that these indigenous people and also Filipino Workers, right, who lived through these kind of harsh experience, harsh laboring conditions as well. So you know, like, there's a lot of stories where like, you know, some Filipino workers are like, Oh, this was a great experience, you know, I got to live in an account with all these other folks. And, you know, I got to, you know, play sports on the weekends, and I was on the company team. And so there's really great, like, there's really great stories like that. But that also doesn't mean though, like, their laboring conditions weren't dangerous and unhealthy. Because there's plenty of stories of people who talked about, like, their parents worked in asbestos filled rooms, people who worked with like, you know, uncontrolled, and very dangerous electrical sites. And, you know, I came across so many records where I would, you know, literally see, like, you know, photographs of people who had like, died on the job site, because they were, like, electrocuted or fell, or, you know, were impaled by something. And so, there was all these records that, you know, that I came across. And so that's why I thought those oral histories whether they came from Chamorros, or Filipino laborers, former Filipino laborers are really helpful in like highlighting those kinds of forms of survival that were happening.

Thank you so much for sharing that. And it leads me to my next question, which you really wanted to foreground is this racial triangulation? Right between the military presents US military presence, which was predominantly white, although I think there was also some racial, I think also South Americans who were stationed there as well. Filipinos, as you were mentioning, who were recruited heavily for militarized labor, and then Chamorros. And those racial triangulations took place both in terms of sort of lived condition, labor conditions, but also this really intriguing term that you use militarize intimacies. And so I was wondering if you could say a little bit more about, about about the relationship between these these different groups?

Yeah, no, I think that the triangle, the reason why I placed so much emphasis on the triangulation did their experiences because I think that they illuminate a variety of different things that are going on in the islands. So, you know, when it comes to militarize, when it comes to the triangulation, the experiences of these groups of people, they're kind of around two different aspects, one being around Labor and the other being around like, various forms of just relationships. So, you know, my, my book in that chapter on militarized intimacies doesn't foreground just one type of intimacy. It more it actually is about various kinds of intimacy. So like, you know, like the work of like Nyan Shah thinking about like, how there's all these kinds of forms of intimacies and sometimes they're, you know, romantic. Sometimes they're, you know, homeless, social relationships, sometimes they're violent, and, you know, and so, and sometimes they're like, they can function in forms of like solidarity and coalition building. And so, what I wanted to try to do in that chapter is really demonstrate all those things were part of this moment in Guam's history. And then across the labor side, you know, I on the on the labor aspect of the book is that, you know, I think there was these moments where some of these contractors like Brown-Pacific- Maxon, were literally implant incorporating or implanting, you know, various forms of policies, you know, and practices that were reflective of like the Jim Crow, South sentiment that was going on at the same time period, right. And then it we're thinking about the 1950s 1940s. And so, you know, the Brown-Pacific- Maxon was this combination of three different companies. And brown being one of the larger of the three, the Brown Corporation, they were based in Texas. And so you know, what you see what their camps is that they had their workers segregated by race. So they had a company, they had labor camps that were, you know, segregated for, you know, white southern white workers, and then there had their Filipino workers another, another campsite. And, you know, they had these like newsletters, where I could see the different kinds of forms of social relationships emerging in these places. But nonetheless, you know, you could definitely get a sense that there was like these aspects of the South, the US South, right, in these camps. So for example, some of these camps had minstrel shows that were going on in some of these, some of these labor camps. And then of course, right all these things reinforced with a labor hierarchy based on by cow, certain workers were privileged over others, even though many of them were just doing the same jobs. So based on their race, and based on the nationality, others were, you know, privileged over other workers. And so, you know, that's where I think the triangulation was really important to try to demonstrate that, you know, it's this, these conditions on the island are happening in various levels, right at the Labor aspect, but also in kind of like the social and social world as well.

I'm so deeply appreciative of your work, because even though it focuses on location, which I think most Americans don't really know how to locate, right, on a map, you're really discussing these dynamics that are really broad, systemic relationship relationships that are occurring concurrently, right, different parts of the United States, and certainly in the militarized Pacific. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you situate your work in the field of us in the world? You know, who are you writing this book? For? What type of interventions do you want to make?

No, yes, thank you for the question. You know, I think when it comes to, you know, there's a couple of different fields, you know, obviously, when we're thinking about our books, we're always thinking about, like, you know, who are we in conversation with, with other scholars and other fields of study? And so like, you know, in the field of US Empire, or the studies on studies on US Empire, you know, there's always, you know, people, for the most part know, about Guam to a certain extent, right, they know, like, okay, it's strategic, you know, like, they'll kind of general understandings of like, oh, yeah, it's just strategically located, because it's like, in the western Pacific. And so those things are true, you know, like, it is true, it is located in the western Pacific. And, you know, it is strategic for its location. But one thing I tried to do in the book, I don't know how successful it is. But I try to push for the fact that, like, if we think about Guam, what makes it much different from other places, especially we're thinking about the Western Pacific Ocean, is that it's one of the few places that if not the only place in the West western Pacific, that the US government actually owns land there. And that's an that's an important, very important component, when we're thinking about the infrastructure of empire, and the building of bases, and the building of roads, and all these different things, because the type of political power and autonomy that the US government has there versus other places in the western Pacific and in Asia is much different, as much different, you know, the US can do things there, that they can't necessarily do, like in bases that they have in Korea, for example, or South Korea or bases that they have in Okinawa, you know, or bases they had right in the Philippines after the Philippines became independent. And so, a lot of times what happens is, you know, the US government has to have agreements or permissions to be able to do certain things in those places. And so, you know, whereas, like, for example, like in the Marshall Islands, as well, right, the land that the US government has, there is also access to releases. So those leases are not permanent, you know, agreements. And matter of fact, the most recent agreement just got I think reapproved right, the recent Kofa that the Republic Marshall Islands has with the US government just came up and had to be renegotiated recently. And so, you know, that's one of the things in new studies on US Empire really wanted to make, you know, make more legible was that it's not just strategically located, but the fact that the US can wield power there, that it can't do so in the same kinds of ways that it does in other places in the western Pacific or in Asia. So that's kind of the terms along the lines of US Empire. And I think like in, you know, in like studies on settler colonialism and Pacific Islander studies, you know, I really was hoping to contribute to those discussions, like as I mentioned earlier, about how settler colonialism doesn't It always have to result in the minority sizing of indigenous people in their homelands, you know, is that this, these bases, where we have a constant influx of settlers who come into the island that are always interchanging, right, but constantly being, you know, coming in and out their dependents who come with them, the tourists that come, right, these folks are all contributing to the kind of continuation of settler colonialism. That, you know, doesn't always, like I said, right require, like, the minorities ation of like, of Pacific Islanders or other indigenous people. And so that's where I was trying to Inter, you know, contribute to those conversations, because, you know, rightfully so a lot of conversations are around like, who is right defined as, or who is considered a settler who isn't considered who isn't a settler, or, you know, and so those are all questions that are valid and understandable, but I wanted to focus more kind of on the structure and power of like bases and how they are actually a part of this story as well. And so that's where I was hoping to, to intervene in terms of along those lines, and also to bring a story about, like, you know, indigeneity, forge morals and how there's those connections to land still persist, you know, while not all, you know, tomorrow's view that relationship to the land in the same kind of way that people did once before, that belief system is still there, right, they're still up, there are still troubles and still kind of believe in those origins and cosmology and that epistemology that's still connect us to the land, right. So

thank you so much. I didn't introduce you completely earlier. But my understanding is that you recently received tenure at Harvey Mudd College. Congratulations.

Thank you.

And I just want to end by reading the last couple of sentences in your book, which I think really convey how much you are not only a wonderful scholar, but a really committed teacher. So the last couple sentences, I encourage those of you being this book to document your elder stories of survival, preserving their words will help perpetuate them memories and experiences, which can nourish the minds and souls of future generations. And I just think that's so beautiful. And it really brought to my mind, how you are communicating this mentoring future scholars, your students, and anybody who reads your book, right to really think with care and with love to preserve these really beautiful, these beautiful memories and life experiences? I don't know if you want to offer any commentary?

No, thanks to you for, for identifying. Acknowledging that. No. Yeah, I think, you know, I think it's one of those things where just to my own lived experiences, you know, I've had both of my parents pass, my father passed when I was very young, my mother passed, I think, but I was, you know, as I believe at a relatively young age or so still, my grandparents passed when I was young. So I lost my, you know, my father, when I was a, I think my grandmother passed two years after that. And then my grandfather passed another two or three years after that, as well. And so, you know, there's this, there's this thing, where as I gotten older, I kind of, you know, I definitely wish that they were all around, because I would have loved to ask them questions, I would have loved to hear them talk story more, you know, like, those are the things that I really wish I could have, you know, more moments or could have had moments with them, you know, and as a young person, you know, you don't, you know, you don't know these things, you don't know these histories. And so, you know, you know, ever have a chance to, you know, ask those questions as young person, but it's, you know, it's now that, you know, I'm older, but also a scholar, and also, you know, a parent, you know, like these stories, I think all these stories, you know, for all of us mean so much and so, they're really, they're very valuable. And so I, you know, when I was doing these interviews, Judy, I just kind of viewed them as, like, having a moment that, you know, that I thought was really special, because someone actually trusted me and someone, you know, believed in me to take the time to tell their story to me. And so I really, you know, tried to view every single interaction that kind of, like sincere way. And so I translate that into my own classes to I know, this is a conversation about the book, but even in my teaching, Judy, you know, like, I have students, I give them options to write family history papers and have them contextualize, as you know, in our previous conversation, I have them contextualize, you know, their families experiences within our broader history. And you know, I tell my students to it was like, I tell them all the time, it was like, you know, this might be the only time you ever sit down and interview your grandparent or parent. And, you know, I want you to have at least one moment, I hope it's only one moment that opens up several other moments, but at least want them to have this one moment so that way they can have least have that with them for the rest of their life.

Thank you, Alfred, for everything that you were offering us. I I'm I'm so happy for you. And thank you so much for participating in this conversation and sharing all that you do.

Thanks, Judy, for believing in the work. I appreciate you and all the other academic editors and the acquisitions editors and the folks at Cornell. So I'm really lucky to have all of your support and belief in the project.

Thank you for listening to Authors in Conversation. The United States in the World Series Podcast from Cornell University Press.