Aquarium of the Podcific: Photographer Robin Riggs

1:51AM Jan 15, 2025

Speakers:

Erin Lundy

Madeline Walden

Robin Riggs

Keywords:

Aquarium of the Pacific

animal care

conservation initiatives

charter volunteer

marine mammals

husbandry department

photography focus

social media

photo night

animal behavior

desensitization training

lighting challenges

animal welfare

memorable tasks

favorite photos

Erin. Hi. I'm Erin Lundy,

and I'm Madeline Walden, and this is Aquarium of the Podcific, a podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, Southern California's largest aquarium.

Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal care, conservation and more. Welcome back to Aquarium of the Podcific. I'm Erin Lundy, the manager of conservation initiatives, and I'm joined by my co host, Madeline Walden, hi. I'm the aquarium digital content and community manager. Today we have on one of my absolute favorite people in the entire world, but also my favorite photographer, Robin Riggs. I'm too huge fan. I'm a huge fan of the fans.

I'm freaking out.

Erin, who is Robin?

Robin is my favorite person. No, Robin is someone who's been volunteering with the aquarium since the aquarium opened. Actually, I found out since before the aquarium opened. So that makes her a charter volunteer here. She has always been volunteering with our marine mammals and just in our husbandry department in general, but sort of more recently, sort of halfway through her tenure here, started doing a lot more focused photography. And so if you ever visit the aquarium, you will see tons of images posted all over our walls, sometimes in our advertising, even just beamed down in a beam of light on the floor right, which is really cool. And a lot of those images and videos are actually Robins, which is super cool. She works alongside her animal care staff to get some amazing photos of these animals, and I feel like the combination of having this relationship with people and these animals gives her this level of access and this comfort around the animals that creates these images that I don't think anyone else could get.

No truly, they are so special. They are so personal from her point of view, but they just make the most beautiful images that we share constantly on social media around the aquarium, like you said, and sometimes

from a beam of light. Yeah, it's so funny to see like we have worked on a couple of different photo shoots recently, and with our new frogs campaign that we just came out with this summer, we did have to do quite a few, like photo setups for these different amphibians. And we, you know, we were working together to figure out what works for each species of amphibian. And I have the funniest photos of just behind the scenes, shots of like Robin photographing something, and there's like a person off to the side to make sure that the frogs are secure. And then it's like in this like weird little photo set up that's also set up behind the scenes. And it is so cool from sort of what resources and space we sometimes have to see these, like incredible, like National Geographic,

Truly, truly, she does an amazing job. It's

really cool. So we're going to be interviewing Robin today about her history here at the Aquarium, sort of how she got into photographing her animals. And if we are lucky, maybe we'll get some advice on how to get even remotely close to the level of talent that she has if we're photographing animals, She's incredible.

A lot of people asked how they can get involved with photography at the aquarium, and I wanted to give some pointers for that. So we actually this weekend, this will come out. This episode will come out after this event. But every October, we have photo night here at the Aquarium, where we shut down the aquarium after hours, and it's for photographers only. You can bring equipment. We have equipment rentals. It's a really amazing event, so I definitely recommend checking it out every October. Put it on your couch. Photo

night photos are one of my favorite things, because as someone who has built and designed exhibits in the aquarium, seeing those featured as like a part of someone's art, like it is giving me weird goosebumps right now, just like the idea that someone is photographing something that you made and is so personal to you and that you maintain day to day, just is amazing. That someone else looked at that and was like, That is beautiful. I want to capture that. And so if you are ever around in October, please come to photo night. Please photograph all the frogs.

I didn't even think about that the new frog habitat. It'll be really cool. And I'm sure it must be cool, even in the past, to see people's takes on the exhibit from a different angle from it's something that you wouldn't necessarily make prominent in a photo, and they do a really good job about that.

I think that's also what I like about Robin's photos, is, you know, I see these animals every day, and I love them every day, but sometimes she captures something in them that I just like. I've seen a glimpse of it, but I've never just had a photo of it. And so she is amazing. All of you photographers out there are amazing, but Robin is my favorite. Sorry,

she makes a lot of amazing content. So yeah, stay tuned for this episode. It's a really good one. Let's go. Welcome back to Aquarium of the Podcific. I am Madeline Walden, the aquariums digital content and community manager. Today, I'm joined with my co host, Erin Lundy,

Hi, I'm Erin Lundy. I am the manager of conservation initiatives here at the Aquarium of the Pacific. I almost forgot what my title was.

First on the spot there, and today we have the honor of interviewing the aquariums, one of the aquariums charter volunteers, but also our volunteer photographer, Robin ranks, Hi, Robin, hello, hello, hello. We're so excited to have you here today. You're one of our favorite people, just in general, just in general. And I know our audience is really gonna love getting an inside look of how you photograph animals here at the Aquarium. I would love to learn about how. Oh, you started volunteering here at the Aquarium. Because I don't think I mentioned this, but a charter volunteer is a volunteer that's been with us since the very beginning of the aquarium. So when did you start volunteering here?

Oh, I started our first year here. So I started a little before grand opening. Saturday. You started before we even opened. I actually started before we even opened. As mammal volunteers, we had to actually go outside of the gates to dump our trash daily. We didn't even have a complete working, functioning kitchen,

wow. An aquarium,

yeah, yeah. We use the old scales, the type that, you know, we hang and weigh. Oh, really, yeah, that's what we use here. Wow. So I've always been in love with pinniped seals and sea lions, and so prior to coming here, I was a volunteer at the Care Center in San Pedro. So I had five years experience before I came here. And at the time, the aquarium was looking for volunteers who did have pinniped experience or large animal experience to come here. So you had to interview one day, and then you came in and you tried out for a day actually. So you volunteered on your projected day that you would volunteer, see how you liked it, see how the staff felt with you. And I decided, yeah, I wanted to see what the aquarium life was like. And I've chosen not to leave.

That's amazing. So you've been here at least once a week, and that's truly at least, it's more like, at least two times a week since 1998

Yeah, wow. It's

really hard for people to understand, because I laugh. They go, what did you do over the weekend? I volunteered.

I did work after I worked at the aquarium, but yeah, our volunteers absolutely do everything that paid staff does. It's one of my favorite things about the aquarium is the culture that we've created around volunteers and kind of creating this accessibility to our animals and our programs too. It's a really wonderful volunteer program. I can't say enough good things about it. And Robin has been a volunteer on the same day of the week ever since I've been hired, and actually ever since I was an intern. And so I have always known Robin to be here on Saturdays. One constant in my life is that Robin's here on Saturdays, and honestly, one of my favorite volunteers. I've always looked forward to working on Saturdays, because Robin is also one of our most advanced volunteers in our program, and can basically do everything that I do, and so she is very, very helpful to be here throughout the day. I'm also fun to be around so well. Thank

you. I enjoy working with you as well. Fantastic. You're so

integral to the aquarium. I mean, here you are a charter volunteer and and also being our core photographer. I mean, truly, all of the most of the images you see around the aquarium, most of the images you see on our social media channels are all taken by Robin, and she's incredible. You're amazing. It's

almost every social media post like photo by Robin, and

if it's not on there, it's only just because I forgot to put it on there. Most of them are taken by her. She's she's been cool about it, though. I'll put it, I'll put it on there. If I catch it. Well,

I appreciate the aquarium having the interest to use my imagery. I mean, I've always loved photography. I've been doing it since I was in high school. So animals have always been something that I love the most. I love photographing dogs. I love photographing anything, and so getting to do the extra voluntary work here and see being used to hopefully educate and inform people is pretty awesome.

It is really cool. I have a question for you that has never occurred to me until right now, what is the first animal, and the first time they let you photograph animals here at the Aquarium. Who was it?

I don't specifically remember which animal, but it would have been one of the seals, most likely, Shelby.

It's really cute to think about Shelby being the first animal that you photograph. Shelby

happened to also be my favorite harbor seal, and she's also the first pinniped I laid eyes on when I first saw the exhibit. And so she's she's very important to me. She's special. Shelby

is a good girl too. She is special. Special, Shelby, she's amazing. I love that she's been a part of your aquarium journey since the beginning. Yeah,

known her since she was two. Really

precious. I guess

she's what, 27 now, 28 so yeah, she would have been two when she got here.

That's really cute. Now she's a mama to three. Yes, three

babies, pups, including her husband, giant tater tot that's on our exhibit, named Kaya, who is also very cute.

Yeah, and that's really one of my favorite subjects. Was seeing her three pups. I actually witnessed Toby's birth. I was here for Bixby first feeding, and then Kaya, I enjoyed her first few hours of life. So that was a big privilege to get to photograph them.

Those photographs too are just so beautiful, and were so wonderful to tell that story too. We're so grateful for

Yeah, it's nice. I have the benefit where the animals, since I do work with them, they are comfortable with me. And so that really, that really helps out a

lot. See my baby,

if you want, if you want. I've known you since I was two. Here's my baby.

Here's this fresh baby. I love that. That's so cool. So going back to your history and photography, what? When did you say you got started in high school? In high school and just you grew up here in Southern California. I

did grow up here in Southern California. And when the high school that I went to we had a interim week in between semesters in which they had us try to take another opportunity to learn something different outside of the normal school work, and I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did not have photography in my life then, and I didn't ski, I didn't horse ride, I didn't do a lot of things my other friends did. So another friend asked me, why don't you do the photo class with me? So I had to ask dad, well, do we have a camera? First and foremost, I had no clue. So he loaned me his very old camera, and it started from there. So

cool. And would you when did you start photographing animals at the aquarium? Was it around the time that you started volunteering originally, or

I started videoing first? When I first came here, I actually did videos. I'm lazy and don't like to edit, but I love to do the videography part, so I actually started out videoing. And so I pretty much started from the very beginning, but it became more robust. I don't know, halfway through, I think, hell am

I. Back then, you were shooting on, obviously, Film, film, nothing digital. Back then, how was the transition from digital or analog to digital? Back in the day,

it took me a long time to make that transition. I tend to use my equipment till it's broken, and then it forces the issue, and that's exactly what happened to me. And so it takes about two or three months to adjust to that new system. That's how long it took me.

I just can't imagine, like I know, photographing animals here at the Aquarium is very difficult on a digital camera that is was made very recently and can photograph in low light and fast paced animals. I cannot imagine trying to capture things on film like that. Must have been very difficult.

It was a challenge. Yeah, it was definitely hit and miss in the early stages. That's probably why I did video more so than the still photography. Even though, by nature, I am a still photographer, people

shoot film here still. We have our photo night coming up this weekend, actually, and we get some people shooting film medium format, you know, 35 millimeter. And I'm so impressed because, like, I have to take 10 pictures in a row to even get one usable shot. You can't do that with film. You got to get the shot, otherwise you just didn't get it. So I'm always very impressed by film. Yeah,

and I got to learn photography the old fashioned way, where you were in the dark room, you were printing your own you were developing your own film. So and you learn photography differently than I think you do now. Do

you feel like the your editing process now differs than like when you're developing I know that you can do certain things to have your picture developed slightly differently. How do you feel like that compares to editing on like a digital medium? Do you like it better? Or do you feel like it feels easier? Do you feel like you can get sort of do you miss the

dark room? Yeah. Do you miss that at

all? Not really. I was very good in the dark room, so I, for me, the adjustment wasn't too difficult. I'm a lazy editor anyway, so I like to get most things right in the camera that's fair and do a very simplistic editing here at the Aquarium, probably the thing that I do the most, and I will only do it to a certain point, and that's cloning out scratches or bubbles or things like that. You know, especially in some of the fish exhibits, yeah,

a lot of water, sometimes there's some scratches on that acrylic that makes it a little hard to photograph around, I'm sure, but it doesn't stop you from getting some of those really stunning shots. My favorites are usually your Giant Pacific Octopus shots, because they are always so dynamic too. Like those animals have so much movement to them. I know that I think your most recent, one of our most recent octopus, goji, was one of my favorites.

Thanks. The octopus happens to be probably my second favorite animal here. I'm very, very particular about my Octopus images. I like the right movement. I like to present every animal in a good form. It's fun to get the funny shots and the weird shots, but I really want to present our animals in a very positive way, and the octopus just has to have the arms going in the right direction. And so I'm very, very picky about those shots.

It's so funny because sometimes Robin will stop by, you know, I'm gonna shoot this today. Okay, cool. Yeah, can't wait to see and then she'll be like, I don't think I got anything good today.

The most

beautiful picture that you've ever seen of this animal, and you're like, This is amazing. And that's something that you take into consideration when you're shooting the animal. You know where the arm placement is, where the eyes are looking. We just saw a very wonderful picture of Parker, the sea lion that you shot this morning. And it's, it's very cute and funny where his eyes are looking. It's a criminal

side eye that he's giving.

It's just, it's really cool to hear it. You know, you're not, not just pointing and shooting. I know that you put so much care and love into your photographs, and I think it really shows.

Thank you. The biggest thing for me here is looking for good light and the backdrop, other

than sort of the technical aspects of, you know, shooting. Underwater versus, you know, in air. What is different about shooting the octopus than the seals or sea lions or other animals? The

biggest thing is, with any of the tanks here, you've got to deal with reflections. That is the number one problem here. And I must say, the octopus exhibit is probably in one of the worst locations in all aquarium the most reflective. It's one of the most reflective spots. It's very, very challenging. I have to photograph the octopus in its exhibit. You know, I don't get to have that octopus pulled off into its own tank somewhere. And so I have to also compete with guests, and so you have their reflections in there. So it can be very challenging. Reflections

are the worst, because there's really no editing that. Yeah. So

it's either coming from the ambient light, from, you know, throughout the gallery, or a specific light. So you just have to have the patience and hope that the animal swims in an area where you don't have those issues. Do

you think that at this point you can telepathically communicate to them, because some images, I'm like, she's staring to you got an otter to pose so perfectly and stare directly at you, and I know that was shot number 6000 in that exact second. But do you think that you you either it's a telepathic communication you have with them, or you have been around these animals for so long you can kind of expect the patterns, and you've been watching them for a couple of minutes and knowing, okay, well, they swim this way, then they're gonna swim back this way. It has

to do with experience and lots and lots of observation. I spend a lot of time roaming around the aquarium as well and just looking for something that's happening good. But as you mentioned, the eye contact is very critical for me. I like to have interesting expressions or eye contact. It's nice to get the nice portrait, but I don't want an image to be too static, yeah? So I just, and that's why I repeat, repeat, repeat. And just, you know, patience, patience, patience.

Yeah, you capture movement so beautifully. So there is no telekinesis that you're doing,

none. I have none. Not as far as she knows well. Earlier today, when we were doing a photo shoot with Parker, Parker seemed to know that you were asking for, like, a little over the shoulder look, a little bit of side eye, and he was giving you just the best expressions. What makes Parker potentially no offense, Chase, a better subject to photograph than another sea lion like Kane or chase.

I think for Parker, he's just very chill. He's very relaxed. He doesn't get too uptight. He's definitely focused on his trainer like he was with you. So that can be a challenge sometimes, as you know, I ask you guys to stand close to me so that he's not specifically looking off to you and is also looking off to me. And then, you know, I think my experience being with him. I've known him since he was one year old. So I've been around this animal for a very, very long time. And as you know, I like him a lot.

I had no idea.

Yeah, it's not obvious in your photos at all.

And I also happen to work with him a lot when I'm in there doing a seal and sea lions. So he's very familiar, and I think, comfortable with me, and can

capture all those different expressions that he has. He is. He's very expressive. Yes, he has huge expressions, huge eyes, just a huge personality in and of himself. And he's so cute. And doing those sessions with you is one of my favorite training sessions, because you have this additional challenge of one, the animal has to behave and be comfortable, and they have to be sort of responding to cues while there's a person with a camera, and you're trying to get them to look and you're trying to time the lighting in the perfect shot and get the animal lined up. And, like, working as the trainer in those photo sessions is one of my favorite things to do, because you're like, Okay, how can I move a sea otter three inches to the left so that the beam of light is, like, perfectly on their face, like, those logistics, and trying to do that challenge while you're still trying to train an animal.

Yeah, that's you're you're doing a lot of training on your own, is really fun.

And then Robin will give us direction of, like, hey, let's move this. Let's move this out of the shot. Or, Can you move your boots out of the shot? Because there's always people walking.

And Robin's ability to see things that you wouldn't normally see either like, and call that out. That's awesome, just to get the best possible image.

Well, it also helps that you acknowledge and understand that I'm looking for some of that stuff. And then, you know, I think a lot of people don't realize I have to do all this within the training session itself. Oh, it's short. I do not have a long time. We are talking minutes, and you have to hope that an animal doesn't need a timeout, yeah? Or some other scenario comes up that for what you have to extinguish, you have to essentially

reset everything. Yeah. What's a timeout? Erin, a timeout is usually if the animals are maybe doing something that they shouldn't be doing, or potentially interested in something they shouldn't be that we will exit and let them have some time to figure out whatever it is that they're doing, and then we'll usually come back in about two or three minutes once they have sorted out whatever business sort out. And so similar to you would use it for a kid or your potentially your dog or cat at home, which is, here's some quiet time. Please figure out what you're doing. Let's reset, and then let's try again. And so usually our animals are very good, but there can be any number of things happening, and a lot of times when we're working. Sessions, we have seven animals working at the same time. If any one of those animals is being very disruptive or distracted, we will take a time out on everyone so that it's safe. So sometimes your photo session is cut a little bit short because, oh, one animal decided he was going to throw a toy across the exhibit just in the middle of the training session. And that has to be okay too. And so it's really nice to see that you are also okay working under those parameters. And I think that's part of what makes us so much more comfortable working with you, is there's no expectation. There's no pressure on us. If the animals are misbehaving, oh well, like it's gonna happen. And I love that. You understand that so innately. The one thing that does frustrate me about working animals is that they always get food on their face, and it is so hard to get off for photos. We do love those photos, though. Yes,

those, those can be very fun. And so we always jokingly say makeup. So that requires them to go into the water hopefully get it off their face, because there's nothing like a good old squid tentacle or something, squid spaghetti. Squid spaghetti, that shrimp shell on the head. If it's, oh, shrimp shells are the worst for the otters. There's

specifically a photo of Chloe I love, and she's looking directly at the camera, mouth open, and there's a piece of shrimp on her and like, it's just her iconic photo. And I think it says a lot about her as a sea otter as well. It does that is her personality, cool. What I wanted to touch on a little bit more was the decent training that you've done over the years with a camera or camera equipment, taking them into a habitat where an animal hasn't necessarily seen a camera before. It's not something that is in every single session. Can you both talk a little bit about desense training with photo equipment specifically? Yeah, I'll

just touch on what that means first. So you want to desensitize an animal to anything that's novel, so that the introduction of that thing does not become a stressor to the animal over time. And so if an animal has never seen a camera, it is just an unfamiliar thing that's pointing at them, and might even look like a giant eyeball to them. And so that might be a little intimidating. And so you want to kind of introduce this thing over time slowly, and show them, hey, it doesn't hurt you at all. And in fact, we're doing a training session, and it's very positive when these things are around. And so I personally have not experienced too much of desensing Robin to these animals. I think she actually does most of the work herself. So what is that process like for you?

So for instance, when we got penguins, they were behind the scenes for a long time before they came out on an exhibit, I would actually go behind scenes and just sit there with them, with my camera, not taking pictures, just getting them comfortable and used to me. So it's just a matter of immersing myself in their world and understanding I'm not going to do anything crazy with this instrument. And that, you know, I have to be careful about raising it up to my eye to take a picture, because sometimes they could overreact or get nervous about it. Some animals respond differently.

Have you ever had an animal be too interested in your camera? Penguins still also penguins like,

I really like, I don't care about it, but I really, really like it. It's

nice that they want to be close, but when they're in your lap and you've got a telephoto it's a little close.

You're not really getting the images that you were not getting one centimeter away from your telephoto lens. Can they ever bite at your camera?

Not too often.

But I've had it. They really like the camera strap. They're crazy about that, at least. I know my experience going camera. Yeah, they like that. I feel like too. We've had otters in the past that kind of, like, look at your camera, like, I want that. I want to play

with that. An otter would steal anything. Oh yeah. Like, I'll take that and I will smash it. Like, there's

got to be something good inside there. It's got to be a clam or crabs in there. Don't know why there would be crabs in there, but there's in there. They're so funny. Well, I think we can get into our social media questions. Absolutely, there's some, a lot of great questions that we have for you from our social media. Oh, something that I want to touch on, actually, before we get there, is you have, I think, kind of with social media and the way it's changed. The past couple of years, I've noticed that you're posting more video content, so you're kind of going back to your roots again. Is there a difference between the way you shoot video versus photo, or is it something you kind of do in between photo shots, and you're like, Oh, let me just capture this on video real quick. I pretty

much do it in between because I'll see something that I think will relay better through video than a still image. I

think when we did the frog content, that was a really good example. So good also, if anyone visits the aquarium this year, our theme is frogs, obviously, but we have these light beams that display on the floor and just talk about our amphibian Gallery, and sort of an ad for the gallery within the aquarium. And those photos and videos are all taken by Robin. And those photo setups were so fun because this is like, pull out whatever frog we have to, you know, clean and sanitize a set, get it safe for the animals, and then set them up. And one of the animals we were asked very specifically to photograph was axolotls, which most people know are totally aquatic and then cannot be just plopped, in a sense. And so the setup for that was, it was pretty elaborate, right? Robin,

well, we elaborate, yes, but. Not. I mean, everything we do is very, very simple and kind of, we just basically took a tank, we had a couple rocks, we balanced a clear shelf on there, and between you and America you. We tried to place it as best as I would

think. These photos were taken in a professional studio with with lighting and, you know, not even close, totally.

And we were in the middle of the room where they were having everything behind the scenes while they were making the exhibits, which even made it more fun. So that's the other thing. We have very small room area for which to work in. Probably the largest area I get to work in is the pinniped. Everything else is much smaller.

Yeah. I mean, it has to be you're accounting for animal safety and security, so that, you know, no animals getting out during a photo shoot, and you're also making sure the lighting is good and comfortable. Has to be an area where there's enough room for a lens to come in. And I remember the Axolotl being in a smaller tank than its normal, which we had just moved it for photos. And then we put a critter keeper inside of the tank, and then we had put an acrylic lid on top of it so that it was all clear. So it looked like this animal was sort of floating mid water column. But the amount of just like balancing things, and like putting slightly more water, taking this rock out and moving it over, was so elaborate. And then it was all just worth it, when you see the shot that we got, and then the just this video of this Axolotl flicking its gills. And that subtle movement, that subtle video, is just such a perfect example of like, hey, this translates really well in a photo. But just a video of this animal staying still, just breathing once and then swimming away, is so cool to see, just displayed all over the aquarium. I could not be more excited. And I also have so many weird photos from behind Robin of just like, what the setup I need those because it always looks hilarious. You're just like, This is what we're doing back here, and it's obviously very safe for the animals. There's no concern in that way. But it is just like, it's not what you would picture. No, not at all. It's you're picturing, like a catalog photo shoot. And it's just like, here's a cart, here's our like, foam board background. And it works amazingly, but it is so not it

can go very simply and produce good results. Yeah,

when you're an amazing photographer, it seems like you can stay simple. And

it helps to be an amazing photographer first, and then we can work back,

I think, a question we got a tonal ask a lot like, what equipment, what what camera, what brand is she using? All of this? I don't think it matters. I think it's the person behind the camera that is really doing all the work. I agree.

When people ask me, you know, what camera would you like? I said, whatever. One feels good in your hand, because that's the one you're going to use. I happen to use a certain brand. It was one that I didn't pick. When my parents were trying to understand that I actually was interested in photography. They had asked a friend who knew photography if they could help purchase a camera for me, and he picked the brand that I'm currently shooting with. I am I've stuck with it, and I mix up my lenses here. I like to challenge myself, so I don't always use the same lens. Sometimes I'll come in with just one lens and go, let's see what I can do. But probably the 2470 and the 7200 are my main stays here,

some universal ones that kind of just get you by for the whole day. Yeah,

I think it, yeah, it's exactly right. Like whatever you like is what you're going to use. So just get a camera that you like. And I think it really has everything to do with the fact that Robin has been doing this and has been producing amazing photos. And almost every week you're photographing

something new here, I'm photographing something quite often because I'm never satisfied. So I'm constantly working and trying for new perspectives, new imagery, and I just don't get bored with the animals here. We just have a lot of great animals, and I am extremely appreciative of the staff here who is willing to tolerate me and put up with training sessions and just let me shoot my heart's

content. We're so lucky. It's such a gift too, because getting to utilize these images for social media for educational purposes around the aquarium, it's truly priceless. So thank you for everything that you do. What about outside of this place? What? What do you like to photograph? I know that you submitted a photo to our staff contest last year that won first place two hawks,

right? Actually, peregrine falcons. Yeah. So that's a fun subject for me. I'm not, I'm not necessarily a bird or a bird photographer, but I have come to like peregrine falcons very much because there is a pair up in San Pedro. So it's a close drive for me, because I'm lazy and don't like to drive far, and I've just just become so intrigued in watching them. It's just fascinating to watch them from the beginning of the season, when they're, you know, starting to mate, to the time they're getting their nest ready, to the time we're waiting for the chicks to come, and then just going through that whole process is just fascinating. Animals in general are my number one subject, but I'm a very eclectic photographer. I do enjoy dogs. I don't do them as much, but I recently have photographed dogs including and really had a lot of fun time with that. I was also doing that for a class, so I love to challenge myself that way. But any and any animal I'm. All four. But I also like to do abstracts. I like to mess around with landscapes. Dabble a little in light painting. What

is your if you had to choose something, what is your dream? Either your dream shot to get or like the scenario that you're like? This is what I really want to do as a photographer. I would love to do this, I really

want to get a humpback breaching with the most spectacular background and well lit.

That's I feel like you have some photos of them. I have them.

I do have humpback breaching, but not one that I'm satisfied about the top. Haven't gotten the one yet. You go whale watching pretty up. I do go whale watching pretty often. Wells are actually one of my favorite animals. So I do like to get out on our local waters, but I also volunteer for the gray well census behavioral project through ACS LA. So from December through I usually stick around through April. Don't always make it through May. I'm up there counting the gray wells, and we also acknowledge any other cetaceans that come by. So I do that. I've been doing that longer than this. Actually.

Do you are you able to do photos while you're doing the census, too?

I can, but generally, I'm really focused on the on the census, and trying to photograph from the cliff side is just not really anything spectacular, but let's say, if there's a falcon that happens,

that's a little different story, then we're first place, yeah, at the aquarium, and also in other photo contests. Is what I learned when I went to the OC fair, and then I was like, hey, all of these photos that have won are Robins. Yeah.

I did really well this year, and I did really well with the Falcon image last year. Actually,

it's, it's a great picture. It's really wonderful, cool. I think we can get into social media questions now. I have so many could talk to Robin forever. But is there an individual animal you have photographed the longest or over the course of its entire lifetime?

Well, longest would be Parker. And I've also, of course, photograph Kyle over the course of her lifetime as well. Shelby, too. Yeah, Ellie. I have to include Ellie too, because Ellie's been here since the beginning. So actually, yeah, Shelby, Ellie Parker, have been long term for me. And how

has it been watching them grow and through photos and through your own personal lens. Well,

Ellie doesn't seem to change. She's the same old, stubborn lady, and I love her for it. She's a challenge to photograph because one thing with harbor seals, they tend to squint a lot, so having the right lighting for them, it can be a challenging so you don't want a lot of the squinting with the harbor seals. Shelby is easier to photograph in terms of the harbor seals, Kaya is a source of frustration for me. Very shy little girl, but she's becoming a lot more outgoing and willing to participate. But she's a big challenge. Anytime I tried to get her informally in the exhibit, she just ducks and hides. She's so cute.

Every picture you get ever she's just like the most like, perfect little look and seal face. Yeah, she can give it when

she when she wants to

serve. She can can, but she often doesn't. She often doesn't. And they are also like, if you're not careful, and for some reason, kya, more than anyone, just so shiny and smooth. And you're like, why everyone else at least looks like they have fur on you, and kind of just looks like a smooth rock, and you're just like, where is the texture to your fur? I don't understand. She's conditioned. Must be. I don't know what's going on. She that's really

hard with them, too, because they they're very reflective. They're wet when they when they come out, so trying to position them in the exhibit, in the right position is challenging at times. And think

about that. You're dealing with reflections, and then reflections are

everywhere, and they're very slick, and you know, you want to make sure they're not facing the sun if they're very squinty, so I like to be in the open shade. I mean, the staff is very used to me going, Okay, we know we want open shade. We want this or that. It can't always get exactly what I want. But probably the biggest challenge in the training session is not getting somebody in the background, because everybody, like Erin had said, You've got seven animals, you're working, yeah,

and there's an audience of people usually watching, and there's guests, yeah, there's an educator. Usually when we're doing presentations, there's just a lot going on. And so to be able to get a shot that is purely just of that animal takes so much, just like setting up the shot that does not appear to because there's maybe 300 people watching any pinniped session on, like a Saturday especially, and they have none of them in the shot. It's pretty incredible. But I really great

job they do. I think this is going to be this episode and and talking about is going to be a great opportunity for us to show pictures of baby Parker. And there's difference in size now I can fix, I know one in my head of him as a baby, and I think he even still has, like, a little Mohawk, just like he does now, the

start of a sagittal press the baby is little face. Every I've seen, like, maybe 10 pictures of Parker that young, and they are all. Cutest I've ever seen, and he looks the same. Yeah, you can tell it's him with his face. I feel like he looks a little bit like Chase does, but Chase is a little bit more of a tough guy. Parker's more of a sweetheart. Yeah, he's a big mush ball. Do you have good photos of Chase? I do. I feel like there's, it's

not often he is still but I do have a couple that I think are good of him. Is he better in session or out of session? In session, some of them are really cute when they're just lying on the beach. Well, I do like to get those. And those are really challenging. For some reason, when I go in and like staff, I try to be quiet, get them in a very casual setting, and then they just, it's like they're on high alert. They go back in the water. They just don't like to do anything with me. Informally, it's very challenging. I love when

they're all piled on the beach. We've gotten some great shots of them just all blonde and dry and piled up together, snuggling on the

beach. Yeah, they usually rush in the water when I'm going let's get

reflective, guys. Let's be

as shiny as possible. I think one of my favorites that I know was not an animal that was like in a training session, was he had gotten some photos of Charlie sort of right as he had gotten older. And there's just this one picture of him sleeping that is the cutest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. And I like had it as my phone back very long time, because he just looks so peaceful. And so I'm sure, as animals get a little bit older, potentially, it's easier to photograph them. But also, I'm sure it's kind of a sentimental photo shoot when you're doing things like that.

Oh, it's very sentimental. And Charlie was one of my favorites. I just loved photographing him.

Charlie was one of our sea daughters that Robin knew way longer than I ever knew. Charlie. He was geriatric by the time I met him in 2015 when I was an intern. But he was the sweetest sea otter you've ever met in your life. He was

a charter animal. He

was actually recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the longest lived sea otter at the time. Think he was 2222

Yeah, he was a sweetheart, and I got to make his 22nd birthday cake. Oh, yeah,

it's a beautiful cake.

There's a picture of him on the news eating one of his cupcakes. That is like, I was so proud. I was like, I made that cupcake, and Charlie looks like he's enjoying it. And Robin probably took that picture. I think so. I think it was a perfect storm of things that happened, and it was the best. It was a beautiful otter. He was really nice him

and Brooke, I feel like we had, between the two of them just the most photogenic otters.

They were both very photogenic, and I just loved photographing them a lot. I mean,

Brooke looked like an angel, like,

if you picture like the most beautiful otter in the whole world, it is

Brooke. You

found your picture. It's a picture of Brooke. I'm pretty

sure, if you look up cute sea otter like she's probably the first results, and they're probably all Robin, to be honest, pictures, but she's the cutest. So

what are your best tips for photographing animals at the aquarium, gear, equipment, timing, reflections, all of it, if you could sum it up, what would be your best best advice? Well, timing

is a lot to do with it, especially I watched the light during the time of year, because that has everything to do with how the ambient lights coming in through the galleries fall. I actually find the best time for me here, just because you have honestly less guests, you're having to battle less to get to summer. Crowd, yeah, post summer. Crowd, it's it's a lot easier. And I find later afternoon, actually, I like the lighting.

Some more goldeny light. Yeah, beautiful. Who is the most difficult animal to photograph? It could be a specific animal. It could be a species. I want

to know which is the most difficult marine mammal, specifically to photograph marine mammal. But then go broader after I just want to know which of our kids is being naughty.

Oh my gosh. I don't know in terms of marine mammal, but I must say some of the fish are real challenge, especially the anemone fish. They are just a sore subject for me. They are the toughest fish for me to get a really good shot of, just because of their movements.

Clown fish. Clown fish. Those guys. They're very, very

challenging. Marine Mammal wise, I don't know they, they're all the same. For me, I feel like I can the Otters can be a real challenge, baby at the end of the day, because it's like their heads just twirl. They can have, you can have their body completely still in focus, and their head is just blur, just a blur, a tornado. Yeah. They just have very, very quick movements, and their fur

is so dark too, that I'm sure it's hard to capture their face. It's extremely

difficult because, as you know, the exhibit does not have a lot of light, so that can be a real challenge. Just between the low light and the speed of the animal, Rob and

I commiserate a lot about some exhibit lighting, and some of it's very blue and some of it's very dark, and it's for all for the welfare of the animal. But sometimes we're like, it's

a challenge to work around. And there's just some exhibits I just have to go, Yeah, I just can't,

I can't get what we get? Yeah, is

it different with different types of lighting on each exhibit? Like some have LEDs, some have those big halogen lights, which ones are easier to photograph around? Are the LEDs different? Cool. I think the

LEDs are definitely a challenge. Just because how the light looks, they can be a real challenge.

I really thought about that from, like, the perspective of trying to photograph the animals. Sometimes,

if you're taking a video to the frame rate, it doesn't match the lighting, but toppiness, yeah, that does give you a headache. You're just trying to get the shot. Yeah. Okay, so who would you say is the best, most well behaved when it comes to photographing?

Oh gosh, it's Parker. Yeah, it's Parker, yeah,

most photogenic, most well behaved. He

was our prom king when he was

all the things, yeah, it's definitely Parker. I, I usually go away with something with every session with him,

those little frogs were very hard to photograph. We tried to do it little frog photo shoot, like, I don't know, four weeks ago. And when I say little frogs, I mean frogs that were, like, maybe an inch to two inches long, yeah. And we were moving them into the setup. And, I mean, partially, they were nervous, you know, and they didn't know what's going on, but, like, they move. So

it's amazing how fast a lot of animals actually do move that that's the biggest challenge. And they can make very quick head movements. Especially birds, they have very, very quick head movements.

Like, it's so perfect. Okay, just stay still. You click the shutter, which is, you know, a millisecond, and it's they moved?

Yeah, they're either moving, preening, doing a variety of things you don't want them to be doing. They're doing their animal thing. And you just, you just got to go with the flow. And if you don't get the shot, you don't get the shot, and you try again, another time

that's fair. Do you want to take a question? Sure you want to do this one.

I think I already know the answer to this question. How many times do you have to take a picture before you consider that you've probably gotten like the right shot? Infinity?

Well, I said I've never satisfied. So considering I have to work within the constraints of either a training session or the staffers time I shoot until you tell me I need to stop, as many as that's literally what I do. I will keep photographing until I'm told the animal is to a point that we need to take a break or we need to move on. I'm always looking for those subtleties. You know, just how an animal positions its head or the catch lights in the eyes, it can make a big difference. And I'm, you know, I'm not necessarily always seeing it as I'm shooting it, but and sometimes I don't notice something in the background, so I just, I just keep photographing until I'm told, Okay, we're done. The

more options, the better. It is funny, because if we are doing, like, a photo session, especially if it's not one that, you know, the animal has to be in a training session or under some sort of, like, paying attention, like we'll stand there for hours, because the animal is doing slightly different things at all times. And it is enjoyable. Because, you know, even just seeing this small little like thumbnail shot that you can see on the camera, I'm like, wow, that is an amazing shot. And then five seconds later, totally different shot, but still just incredible. So you may as well take advantage of how much time we have up there. The animals are always doing something cute. Why wouldn't you want a trillion

but I want them all. Yeah. Well,

the lighting can change dramatically, sometimes too, just, it just depends. The outer

skylight slightly moves like we have one window to the sky in there, and that's basically the only light that's pretty much the lights, the lighting,

the additional lighting, is weird too, because sometimes it reflects very purple or red onto the sea otters in there. And so we've gotten comments before, are they purple? Yeah, are they purple or are they red? Is everything okay? And they're like, Oh yeah, it's just

the lighting. Yeah, I have to watch for that a lot. Actually, I

want to talk about this is something a question for the both of you, what steps do we take to ensure the animals aren't stressed during photo shoots? We kind of talked about that with decent with decents, but anything you can speak on that,

yeah, well, I'll, I think from my end, there is always an attendant or someone who is kind of there specifically for the animal. Thankfully, Robin is very, also very aware of sort of animal behavior and what might be signs of stress. And if an animal is showing that they are not enjoying something that is not something we are at all going to continue and pursue and push, because the getting a photo is not worth that animal being stressed out. And I really enjoy working with Robin for that reason, because if there is even a small indicator, we could be like, hey, you know what? Let's just call this. We can always, you know, schedule this for another day. And I think having someone there that is specifically there to read animal behavior, and knows that animal very well is critical for doing these things. And then, I mean, obviously, if an animal is just in an exhibit, and it's not like an outs out of its exhibit, or it's not in a training session, it's different. But in scenarios where an animal is maybe being exposed to something that is novel, having someone there is sort of critically important, and then working with Robin to be like, hey, you know, if you need this shot, maybe we can take a step back and we can sort of zoom in close, you know, like, we can find ways around what challenges might exist for, like a frog that's hiding behind a leaf. Like, can we slightly move this leaf so that it's not nervous, but put something else, there something to hide behind. And I think doing those things. Making those modifications, and then also just knowing Robin's going to be okay with it, is wildly helpful, and makes me very happy to do these photo shoots. The animal welfare comes before everything else, absolutely But Robin, I heard you had a fun experience today with one of our GPOs.

Yeah, not so I worked with Brooke the aquarist, who takes care of ghost, our new GPO, and we were hoping to do a photo session today, and all things were looking in the positive, and then they were not.

We even got her a Halloween pumpkin with a ghost on it. And a

GPO is a Giant Pacific Octopus. I'm sorry I used an acronym, yeah, and

she was an absolutely didn't want to participate today. This was hands down, the worst photo session we've ever had with the GPO. I do a lot of my GPO photography, just in general, like any other guest would be doing her, but there is the occasional setup that I do with Brooke so that we can do that before the aquarium opens and try for certain scenarios, like photographing her with a ghost pumpkin and she did not want to come out of her little den. And Brooke was trying everything. And I, I so appreciated her time. She always gives me her time to try to accomplish these sessions. But we just had an octopus who wasn't having it today. So, you know, I can't throw a fit and pitch a fit. Animals are going to do what animals are going to do. And like Erin said, animal welfare is number one. And I'd like to think that the staff knows that that is important to me as well, that I will not try to push anything. I think I generally know when a session needs to be extinguished or ended, and as I would always remind people, I'm gonna keep photographing until you tell me we're done. It

is really nice to not ever feel pressure in those scenarios, like, oh, we have to get the shot. And you're like, there's an animal. It's

never more important than the animal. No, fair, no. Think it's important to for all of that, like you're you can't force an animal to do anything. You can't force animal to pose a certain way or to do this. And I think Robin does a really great job of taking that challenge and still creating these amazing images. How many

I like to take on all the challenges? They're mostly everything, small and large. Yeah, I may not understand it or know what it's about or understand or can speak its scientific name, but I'm all game to try anything

we have to try. And I can't tell you how many tiktoks We've scrapped, because the animals are just not doing the thing that nothing to do. Yeah, that's fine. Sometimes

it turns into an even better Tiktok show. We'll say, like Harpo interrupting me to scream, that was a great one. Cool. What's the most memorable task you've performed at the aquarium, maybe outside of photography or a project that you were involved in? Well,

I'd have to say it's, it's one of my favorite pinnipeds. And sadly, he was one that passed. His name was Odin, and Odin was blind, and he was at the care center, and so I got to know him there. And I actually got to work with one of our former vet techs here, and we got to train him the bridge and targeting. And so then when he got to come here to live out his life, then I was the one person who got to take care of him on the weekends. And I loved that animal very, very much. So his death was very hard on me, and I taught him how to stick out his tongue. You

taught a blank, a blind animal how to do that like, it's like, that's so amazing. The the amount of care that you know and trust

that goes into both you trusting Him, and then also him trusting you, that he can't see you, but he still understands that you're not there to hurt him, is really cool. And how

beautiful that you saw him at the care center, and then, you know, transferred over here. That's yeah,

do you know why he was blind?

No, we don't know why it was why? Why? Why he came in blind. We don't know. And what was fun when he was there, he was with another animal that had suffered a very severe net injury and had a very severe mouth injury, but they were housed together, and we jokingly called him his seeing icy lion Oden would just touch his body and follow him around. So it was a lot of fun just seeing those two prosper and eventually find homes in an aquarium. Wonderful.

That's so cool. You wanna take the last two questions.

I don't know if you have an answer to this, maybe you do, what is your favorite photo that you've taken of all time,

all time doesn't even have to be here.

I would say I'm pretty proud of that Peregrine. Yeah, Falcon mating pair that I got. I was really, really happy with that shot, and I happened to be the only photographer there that particular Sunday afternoon when the light was magical. It

what like frame rate are you shooting at to capture birds in motion like, well, so crisp, yeah, for an obviously high motion, yes,

very, very quick when they when they made it's very, very quick. You just have to shoot at a very fast shutter speed. Yeah, actually,

that's. Crazy. We'll have

to share a shot of that in the show notes, and it was on our social media too, as part of our staff contest for last year's gallery opening. It's an amazing shot. And, yeah, definitely first, first prize winning all around.

And I guess I'm proud of that one too, because I'm not a really great bird photographer, but I, like I said, I really appreciate and love these animals so much, so I approach it very differently than a lot of the bird photographers who have the really large lenses and the very expensive camera equipment. I'm just going out there with my just average Joe equipment, and I think I get some things differently than they do, because I think I understand the animals a little better. I do a lot of observing them and just try for something different and unique. Yeah,

cool. Thanks,

Robin, yeah. I guess we answered favorite animal of all times, yeah? Well, we knew Yeah. That was, yeah. That was wonderful, Robin. Thank you so much for chatting with us. I just I adore you and getting to know more about your background. Here is incredible. Well, thank you very much

for having me. This is a fun episode. I've been looking forward

to this. I've been bragging about it. Sounds like Robin's coming off podcast.

We're pretty excited about it. You tricked her. Yeah, you finally got me.

They'll have to come back and keep us updated all your on your new, new favorite photo of all time. Okay,

I'm sure well, and I'm looking forward to getting that ghost image.

I know it'll happen. It's gonna have, hopefully, by

the time I'm hopefully gonna have one. Are you gonna try

to get ghost inside of the ghost in the pumpkin? I was pictured her

holding it, something just touches,

hoping that she touches it. You know, she comes out. She had a lot of good treats and puzzles in there, but she didn't, just didn't want to participate today, little baby. It does take a while. Once an octopus comes on exhibit here, we actually don't photograph right away, because it takes a long time for them to settle. So she's taking a little longer. But hopefully in time, does

it seem busy, she can see the camera and, like, it's very understanding of what's happening, or, like, potentially nervous about the equipment.

No she had, no she was, she was totally she totally knew what was going on. She wanted the food. She just wanted breakfast in bed and didn't want to go to go order. Who

could blame her? It's me every day. I also want to breakfast. Yeah, see I get it,

yeah. She was totally watching. I could see her in there. She was totally Yeah. She's at 36 she could tell what Brooke was doing when she had the food and stuff. She just was being obstinate. She's like,

I could wait this out. I bet good. They won't photograph my bed head today. Three little spikes.

Cool. Thank you, Robin. Thank you.

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