everyone welcome to another edition of the all the things ADHD podcast.
There are too many things
podcast. Yeah, there are Yeah, we should rename it to there are too many things. That's the That's the title of this week's episode. There are too many things now. There are so many things that we again missed last week's podcast recording for very solid reasons that did not that did not this time involve forgetting appointments. Oh,
no
more dramatic life matters
much more dramatic. So I mean, this might be you know, they say the essence of a good lie is not to like exaggerate or over embellish. And I feel like this is a ridiculously over the top excuse for not being able to record last week. But our listeners should know that I sent you a Twitter DM from the emergency room at the hospital. Because I had just followed an ambulance carrying my husband who had an animal lactic reaction in public to a dental implant he had just had inserted in a dental surgery that I didn't realize that he was having. And I was like, not sure if he's going to die, but I can't record today. So I was like, Oh, shit. Oh, shit. So for those of you following along at home, that's my family's third ambulance ride of the year, our fourth or fifth? Maybe emergency trip to emergency? Yeah, it's Yes, it sounds like a joke. It's hard to believe our charts at this point. So you would have every right to say, oh, Amy, you surely must be exaggerating. But no, because the paramedics in the ambulance. Were actually slapping my husband and saying wake up. Stay with me. Which is about as crisis See, I think as you can get with no blood involved.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, if you if somebody were to if somebody were to write a book or a TV show based on yours and my past year, sure people would be literally like, no, no, like too much. Yeah. Yeah. Shonda Rhimes would even be like, Yeah, well, much. They're
exactly moved right past Grey's Anatomy into telenovela and beyond beyond where that went, and, and I will say, this may resonate with some of our listeners. And I know Lee, this will feel familiar to you that as I was in the hospital DDU, I was very proud that I remembered that we were supposed to record so that I could notify you instead of just not showing up. And then second, I was like, sitting there for a bit, looking at the wall clock, and like listening to what the doctor said about how long we had to stay there, you know, to make sure that the reaction didn't flare up a second time and kill him. And I was like, well, maybe I could just like record a little bit later this afternoon. Right? So that was like, my whole idea. There was like, like, I can probably, like, make this work. And also, I need to make this work and like a very strong sense of responsibility, but things and thinking like, this is a ridiculous thing that has happened to us. And I don't want to burden anybody, you know, with my husband almost dying here today. So I'm going to try to make it so that nobody has to know that we're in a crisis, which is hard to do when you're an oversharer. Like me, but our listeners that may find that resonant, and I know Lee that you behave exactly the same way as because you are also going through it. Yes now, but try Yes. And like everything is okay.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I was in our chat. I checked in on you. And we started talking in our DMS about, you know, I literally feel like the meme of the dog drinking coffee while the world is on fire saying it's fine. This is fine. This is fine. Oh, it's not it. But the the worst thing is, is that I've never, like everybody always shows us as a joke and as like, as like a means to like call to action. But at the same time, like I finally understand that meme, whereas like, that dog doesn't have any choice. Yeah, right. Like, the dog has no choice. No, like, it's it's not that they're ignoring everything that's going on. It's just that if I'm not fine. I don't know what happens.
That Right.
Exactly. And that could be the subtitle for her. If I am not fine I don't know what happens, right? Because you feel like the last pin, kind of holding the last train carriage on engine, right? And otherwise, it's like a hurdle backwards into the sea or something. I don't know. It's yeah, it's a, it's a lot. So we're sort of prey right up to some cognitive distortions relating to massive amounts of stress where we're like, I'm at the hospital. But it turns out, my husband's not dead. So maybe I can record this podcast episode, after all, right? And you're like, essentially, in the burning building, looking around going well, I didn't start the fire, and I can't put it out. So I guess I just kind of continue to drink my coffee while sitting here. That seems like a perfectly reasonable and necessary course of action. So we're not we're not right in the head. We're not doing particularly well. There are circumstances that are beyond our control that we cannot, as it were control, and our limited coping skills already have perhaps been overstressed. And so today, we're going to talk about a topic that I have been researching burnout. But the research I've been doing is not around occupational burnout, which is a concept that we've been seeing a lot more than in the popular press, right? So burnout, at work is about becoming cynical, becoming unmotivated having a lack of agency feeling a lack of agency, like nothing that you do matters, but that you have to do all of it, but that you don't care. And also that you're you're very exhausted. And that is occupational burnout, it has to start at work, it has to be about work. And the the concept we're talking about today, that I've been reading about is autistic burnout, which I think we can extend to thinking a little bit about neurodivergent. Burnout, which manifests a little bit differently. Sometimes looks like depression sometimes looks like anxiety. It's a concept that that comes from the community. Actually, I read a research paper about this, this really, I guess, an academic? I wouldn't,
I wouldn't say share it with me, and I'll put it in the show notes. But I have been so terrible. With the show notes. I still have that screenshot of us from last week that I didn't share. So yeah, have your foot and my chaotic drawings. Yeah. And so this is this is how we're going. Which I also forgot that it was because we had a holiday that week. So I forgot it was Friday. No. And then was like, Oh, hey, I should put this up. And then then then catastrophe,
strong catastrophe. Yeah. So this academic article, which like maybe in a couple of weeks, weeks, I will have the presence of mind to tweet academic article on autistic burnout, which like, first of all, what what to the team that did that because the lead author is identified as autistic. And a lot of their research was like, autistic burnout is something that autistic Twitter talks about a lot. So we looked into it, right, and we looked into, we looked into the blog posts, and we partnered with some, like, advocacy groups for autistic adults, and we query them and then we did interviews, right. So it starts from a community generated concept, because they were like, it seems that the way that autistic people describe burnout is different from occupational burnout. And it's also not depression. And I will describe to you some of some of the symptoms that come with this. And I think it will, we will discover as the science progresses or not, that this is probably a neuro divergence thing. So usually, autistic burnout comes from a combination of masking, right, so you're trying to function like a normal person or looking like you're functioning like a normal person, where eventually the things that are required of you in your daily life exceed your capacity to do them. In some kind of like structural and accumulating way, like you know, the way a, just a constant drip of water will eventually fill an Olympic sized swimming pool and then after that the pool cannot contain any more water and it will start to spill. Burnout for neurodivergent people can come not from you know, a crunch period, but it can come from like a year of doing 5% Too much
every right to do on it. Do you want to share just just as in terms of like not letting the mask down? Do you want to share what happened in your class the other day?
Oh, my God. Oh my god. Yeah, I you know, I love teaching I talk on this yes, a lot about how much I love teaching. And like I do, I just did summer, like a quite well received keynote on you know, accessible and inclusive pedagogy. And, and so like, I'm quite attentive to this in my course design, and I knew we were going to have a bit of trouble coming back to in person teaching and I like built some structures of support into my classes. So like, everything was really explicit and everything was really well explained and organized and we go over stuff in class all the time and And my students have been struggling like they've just been struggling. This is like not unique to me. I've been seeing this on the internet that people's students now like forget stuff, like how to use a Google doc like they're just like tripping over the easy stuff. And I was in class the other day. And I thought, my students are struggling so much. I'm going to remind them on Tuesday that their assignment is due Friday, I mean, an assignment that is in the syllabus with a due date from day one that has a handout sheet today repeatedly have pointed them to that has a due date, right at the top that they will be submitting to a dropbox on the course website, which has generated a calendar event that says if this is due on this day, at this time, it'll be in their notifications. And I put up the handout on his screen on Tuesday when I went to class. And I was like, this is just a reminder, you know, your assignment is due by noon on Friday. And then this was the noise I heard from the whole room. From the whole room this like gasp of shock. Like they've just got all the way through to the end of the sixth sense and figured out a twist and are completely shocked by it. And I kind of lost it. Something went like, like snap like an elastic breaking inside my head. And I made like a noise describe his kind of a strangled girl it was like, Yeah, like that. And then like this weird voice came out of my face. It sounded a little bit like Oprah and I went, I cannot believe this is happening. Are you kidding me? Right. And I heard it, I thought, well, that's not what I expected my voice to sound like, but I was trying really hard to not yell at them or burst into tears. And that's what came out instead. And then the next thing that came up was fine. Know that we have talked about this in clause a lot. This should not be a surprise to you, in a new way. I was like, What the fuck
that out of body experience, right? Like, just like, when you just I don't know if this is a neurodivergent thing or what but like, a black mass comes off. And all of a sudden you're watching yourself do it. And you're like, wow,
Mmm hmm. powerless to stop it, right? Because yeah, it was like, because I thought, Amy, control yourself. Like, be kind, like, there's no reason on earth that this should be a surprise. That is true. It is also true, that yelling at them is not going to help them be less surprised or produce a class environment where we will get things done. And like, you know, I have those conversations in my head with my myself like quite often as a professional, it's what you do. But I was so beyond my capacity to muster empathy and kindness for others that the only way that I could manage not to yell was a little bit of sarcastic singing. Right? And they were all just kind of looking at me. And I thought this is very autistic. What's happening now? Yeah. And also, I'm not able to stop this right now. And so I was like, I'm just going to give you all five minutes now to read this handout, which apparently comes as a surprise to some of you so I'm assuming that you haven't read it. Five minute timer, and I set the timer.
And then why did you walk out?
Yeah, I did. And I just like, stood in the hallway and try to get my shit together. Like because I it was for them, because they did need some time to read it. And it was also for me, because I thought if I keep talking, I don't think I can fix this. I think I know exactly
like that's No, that's, that's what you have to do. Right? Let's take five. Let's break you. Actually, for me, actually, for
me, it was like I if I had started speaking in tongues, I could not have been more surprised at what came out of my face. And this never happened to me in a classroom before and I thought wow, that's not, that's not great. So, this is like a warning sign of autistic burnout which will come out as so this doesn't happen to neurotypical people right is that they call it being more autistic, right? Which is you might engage in more stims right, because you're desperately trying to manage yourself and since a lot of ADHD people have various kinds of stems as well like we tend to be budgeters like runner or Rounders or like you know, we
asked me how my cuticles are doing right
Ah, right. Yes, it's cuticle chewing time and also pick them till they bleed kind of thing. But it doesn't doesn't help like, because I scratched you it doesn't help that when I get very stressed out I get Zeeman psoriasis Yeah, where else which makes me itchy anyways and then I like suddenly discovered like all week I've been saying like, I think I'm allergic to the laundry soap, because my whole body is itchy. Constantly, right? So any sensory sensitivities that we might have sensitivities to particular kinds of food or aversions to particular kinds of food or sensitivity to lights or sounds or smells will get worse. If you're approaching a burnout. So this is true about 50 people I suspect But it's true of ADHD people as well. emotional regulation becomes more difficult. Oh, yeah. Right. So if you if you know, if you're not accomplishing things because you're depressed, if anyone has ever been depressed, like, you will know that it's like your feelings kind of go away, right, and you're just sort of numb and unable and like low key full of dread, all the time. But when you're kind of like in a neurodivergent, burnout, what tends to happen more is that you'll be incredibly sad. And then five minutes later, you will be so angry that you could just reach your hands out and throttle somebody manually, like irritation. Yeah, like on fire, and then you're very itchy. And then the noises make your ears hurt. And you really want to throw your laptop other window. Yeah, and claw your own skin off. Like it becomes like a complete failure of all of the ways that when we are healthy, we managed to not injure ourselves, or others, yes, or others or, like, you know, you'll become much more impulsive. Like, you'll get really mad at your clothes and you're like, are going to stop eating or alternately compulsively eat that, like occupational burnout is more like people just give up. Right? They drink too much they drag themselves through their day, they like binge watch TV. And they're just like, kind of sad and numb. But neurodivergent burnout comes out more like sensory issues, an inability to successfully mask and also devastatingly for our people leave a pretty dramatic loss and executive function skills. Oh, gosh. Yeah,
so much loss of executive function skills. I mean, this is I tweeted about this the other day, that the absolute worst thing in the world, that when you are neurodivergent ending crisis, is at the moment in order to get the help that you need. And we've talked about this before. And that's why I called it an evergreen tweet, that it is required of you to have possibly the highest level of executive functioning. Absolutely. Because you've got to fill out forms, and track websites and wait on hold. And remember, you know, like the insurance has to talk to the doctors, which has to talk to the school, and there are forms that need to be filled out to make sure that they all of these people can talk to each other because of privacy, which I totally get. And you know, at one point, I was on the phone, and I was crying and I was just basically like I just want help as fast as I possibly can get up. Yeah, we need
a concierge. Yeah,
yeah. And it was and once that like I I'll I'll say that my typically my body has to give out before like I don't know again, if that's your typical but probably for somebody because again, talked about it on ADHD you know we about ADHD we love the dopamine right like we so in stressful situations. Um we get all the dopamine and so we're actually able to function pretty well because you get for a time again task oriented and you can actually focus very well on those tasks because it just like you have this flood of dopamine and serotonin because of the anxiety and the stress and all that kind of stuff. And so typically it is my body that that just shuts down
yeah, like when I jumped out of the hole right like our favorite story but when I jumped out of a hole that I fell into and I had just enough like adrenaline and cortisol in my system to jump out of a six foot hole and then say it's no blood it's catch up and then I fainted. Did nothing because because my body was like recovering from that and I remember when you and Cassie had your little like your smallish car accident them but that was still like a write off and you like went into task orientation mode and you you know you were going to get the rental car from the place that was close to the body shop but you like accidentally booked the wrong body shop that has the same name as the other body shop and so we tend to also get like maybe 95% of the way there but then the 5% that you messed up just means like you it feels like all that effort was wasted. Yeah, right and and we had talked in our episode about the neurodivergent hangover about how much work you had done at the beginning of the pandemic to transition entire campus to remote teaching online and and how like you could only sustain that for so long. It's great while you're doing it but you can't keep driving that car when the gas tank is empty. You just and
it's funny that you use that analogy about gas tank being empty because my body decided to literally empty the literal guesting er and then that and then I so I had to take this entire I well finally I decided to take this entire week off but I was Just like I have, my body was like, you're done, you're done. And so because you can't eat anything, you're going to feel tired and lethargic. And so you will sleep. Yeah. And yeah, and now I can keep food down and I can, you know, but yesterday even though I'm you know, well hydrated now and or, you know, adequately hydrated and adequately calories I hit a wall yesterday at about two o'clock in the afternoon, you know, still and was like you're going to bed and you know I I feel like it's I'm probably going to hit that wall again today. You know, I'm probably actually going to finish recording this podcast and then go take a nap. Because I've got it well, I've got a coach tonight, which is like, restful for me. Yeah, yeah. Weird. Yeah. Again, it's sort of neuro divergence like school, let's go to a pool really loud pool with a bunch of kids. And it's,
well, you like it, you get to be loud. And yeah, tell people what to do, which is Yeah, and you're completely focused, because otherwise people might drown. So like, that's very good. Yeah,
exactly. For an hour, I don't have to worry about all the other shit that is going on.
That's right, good to have monomaniacal focus on something which is which is great, right. And so like, there's a couple of things I hear in what you're talking about now, which I recognize myself too is this idea that unless our bodies are like, visibly and violently, unable to cope, right, unless there's some sort of physical manifestation, right, so like, if, if your digestive system is in revolt, like it is clear to outside observers that you are ill, and so you have permission to stop right? But if it's, this is another thing that actually leads to in the research, I'm just going to keep saying autistic Berto, but like, please understand, that's because that's what I've read. And but I'm suspecting it is very much, yeah, something that ADHD people go through as well, but I can't cite anything on that. So just like a good good scholar and say, autistic burnout is also this idea that other people could cope with what we are struggling to cope with. And since we look normal to other people, right, we don't, we're not actively vomiting, for example, we're like, I should just continue to try, because the thing that is making me go over the edge right now would not push a quote unquote, normal person over the edge. And since I don't look sick, right, just trying harder, should get me through this right. And so we tend to then not attend to our own needs until we get so far past the point that we should have stopped at that our bodies do get sick. Yeah.
Well, so here's, here's one thing that I'm going to interject, which is true. And I think that the readings, but I think in yours, in my case right now. I think even neurotypical people would have some struggles dealing with work with what we're dealing with right now. I know this because people have told me that which is not necessarily helpful when they're saying, I don't know how you're dealing with all this. And you're like, No, no, I'm
not actually. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And, and like, that's a great point to make, too, because, but we're so much in the habit of falling apart from things that other people don't find difficult that when we fall apart for any reason, we're like, we'll probably other people don't find this difficult, right. But like I'm telling you, like, 20 stitches between, like, all of my injuries and then 20 staples for Tom one emergency surgery, like three ambulance rides for us, two broken bones and a shoulder reconstruction, two dental surgeries, like three laser reconstructive procedures, you know, for me, and and and I'm tired just listening. Right? Yeah. And I'm like, the thing is, when when I had my incident with my facial injury, that was really scary in January, like that happened on on a Tuesday and Wednesday, I taught I was fine. It was fine. Because that was the first awful thing. Right? And I was I had that miserable experience at the hospital and like, Tom took care of me and he loved me. And like, we were still over zoom for teaching. And so like, I found that filter that hid my face and, and like, and that was, that was okay, because I thought like, you know, my courses prepared. I'm on top of things like I don't want to miss this week. And I think it'd be good for me to do this. And I did and that was fine. And I coped, right. It was a lot. I did it and I like to talk to my therapist, and I had to do some therapeutic writing, and I had to work through my trauma. And that was great, because that was one thing and I was like, really proud of myself. Like, I think we've been talking about how legal it is. We have such good coping skills because like we've been doing therapy and learning about ourselves. But like, you're right, that the stuff that's happened to my family this year is too much for anybody honestly. Yeah, to cope with, and, and yet, and yet, I'm so lucky. shamed. You know, because like all these bad things like recently what's pushed me over the edge? Is these physical problems that have that have happened to Tom? Yeah, they haven't happened to me. Right. They haven't happened to me and yet I am the one who's a basket case now. Right. So even if it's a perfectly reasonable for me to feel completely overwhelmed at this point, I keep thinking like, Well, Tom, yeah. deserves to have a flame out right now. Not me. Right. Yeah. So
sort of different situation where someone is having the flame out? Yes. And I have to be, okay. Can't Yeah, yeah, I have to be okay with it. But and, and that's, that's, that's also, as you can imagine, really, really hard. When you know, and, and again, it's like, but also like, what choice do I have? Yeah, yeah. Like, I can't not be okay. Because that makes things worse. Yeah. So, here are my
choices. Okay. And that is another, that was like another element actually identified as a precipitating element of burnout for neurodivergent people is this sense of not being able to not do the thing? That's yeah, pushing you over the edge, right, a lack of control over the stressor, right. So feeling like either you have work obligations that no one else can do. Or you have a family member in crisis. And so you cannot be in crisis, because there is not only no one to take care of you, but you need to take care of somebody else whose situation is fairly urgent, like we've both been through that this year. And so this feeling of not even feeling like if you had to have a complete meltdown, you could write, and a pretty clear awareness that if you did, there is no safety net, because you are, the safety net is one of these precipitating incidents, for a total burnout for people. Mm hmm. Yep. So yeah, it's something that's not superduper recognized, like you will find some of our listeners may find, I bet if we all cast back through our memories, there will be times when each of us has had what we might now characterize as a period of burnout where you're not, like clinically depressed, but you are both anxious and sad and unable to help yourself do things that would make you less anxious if you could do them. And we've all had periods where I bet you this will resonate for people where we've just quit basically everything. Yeah, right. Like, there was a period in high school, like I left high school, and I went to university, I think I was burnt out from everything I'd done in high school, and I just did not join any clubs. I had been president of everything, right, like I am a joiner. I am a leader, I do these things I want to be involved. And I'd like just did so much. And I got so burnt out that I went many years without joining anything. Yeah, again, right. And I was like, well, there just goes to show you you were never a good person because you couldn't handle it. Right? So we you know, the thing where you're like, That's it, I'm like leaving this relationship. I'm never going to that library again, I'm going to quit this hobby. I'm going to you know, stop, you know, going for runs with people. And you just there'll be a period I'm we've all had it where it's almost like your brain goes into hibernation, and you quit a bunch of stuff. Right? And you just burn it down. Burn it down. Like I guess I'm out of this friend group. I guess. You know, I'm not in this like farm coop anymore. I just have to quit literally everything the things that I have joined because they brought me joy. Yeah, somehow there's things going on, it's too much to handle, they need a hard reset. And sometimes we can do that in a healthy way. But I think probably most of us have a history of experiencing a period of burnout that we did not recognize as burnout, but instead attributed to we are bad people and we can handle it. And then we start disappointing people, and we get like negative consequences. Like we might fail some classes or like, not be allowed to go to the library and take books out ever again. Or we have like some friends that we've disappointed because we keep forgetting to do the things we promised that we're going to do them or, you know, our romantic relationships suffer. And then we just
because we can't mask as well anymore, all of a sudden, we're like, what are we, we, you know, blurting out the wrong thing acting more impulsive than usual. Right? That that'll take its toll on on a friend group where it feels like an abrupt, a very abrupt personality shift.
That's right. Right. And it may sometimes go ahead. I was gonna
say and in a way it is. Yeah, you know where it's like and then like, well, this is there's also that that guilt and that shame. Well, this is perhaps the real me. Yeah. And they don't like the real me. They like masking me.
Yeah, and sometimes when we're in that moment, we mistake ourselves like I've had periods in my life where I've been, you know, very involved in things and the stress builds up and the stress builds up and I will say to myself on a bench of this is very relatable to others as well, if the world could just like, pause, yeah, like if I could just have like a week where I could catch up on like, whatever it is, right? Yeah, then I could go back to my life. Yeah, and that would be good, right? But you can't. And then what we wind up doing is getting to a moment of crisis where we've been, very often make the grand gesture of quitting the part time job, dropping out of school, like stopping a hobby, like throwing out all of the clothes that need ironing, because you're never going to do it. And we're like, I guess I'm not the kind of person who does those things, right. And that's a mistake, because we are the kind of person like who can go to school and have friends and hold a part time job, we just got burnt out, right? So we mistake a state of burnout for being an indicator that we should never have attempted to do those things. And sometimes it's like, in my case, like, I love my family, and I love my job, right. And none of those things are overwhelming to me, but like to come back in a semester where right before the semester started. And my husband became like, you know, 80% disabled for three weeks, right at the beginning of term, after we'd already been coping with a bunch of physical pain, and then trauma from all these ambulance rides, and stuff and, and then to come back, and my students are, of course, coming out of like, some of them are third year university students, they've never been on campus before. Right? They just honestly don't know. And then they need more from me. Right? And, and Tom needed more for me. And I needed more from me, and I couldn't give all of it and I am feeling a lot of guilt and shame right now thinking like, I can't handle these things. Like I must be bad at it. But I felt like no, like, there's just too many things right now. Too many things. Yeah. And like, I will be able to take care of my family and I will be able to be kind to my students. And I will be able like to remember the things that I have booked for myself and I will be able to like fill out surveys about the desire to learn brouhaha. It doesn't mean that I was wrong. Just because I'm burnt out right now, I wasn't wrong to think I'm the type of person who can do those things are just a set of circumstances right now that have conjoined to make all of it impossible. And I don't have to quit them forever. Right. Like, I don't know. Have you ever done that you've quit stuff forever in a huff. Oh, yeah. You've done that? Oh, yeah. You think it's because like, because you don't like those things? You're not that kind of person. But it might have been a temporary state. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. And there's also I mean, there is also the, the, the ADHD overcommit, too, which is the, you know, time has no meaning and so therefore, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Today, I feel like I could do that on November the 20th. does not check calendar right now. It's the sort of thing booked for November. The 20th. Yeah, so it's maybe not that we that we can't do those things is because of our very bad ability to scope time that we do tend to sign up for too many things. But we've never learned how to calibrate because when we
know it's get overwhelmed, all or nothing. But yeah, we never everything.
Every time we come back, we rejoin Yeah. So you come back from having quit everything and you're like this time, it will be different. This time, I won't burn out. But then you like I'm going to prove it by signing up for everything. Yeah, again. Okay. Right, which is like not a way to build a sustainable life. Well, and
this is and it's really hard. So we're actually going through that right now with my daughter, who you know, through various reasons has now rage quit ballet. And she loves ballet. She She absolutely loves ballet, but she is also dealing with it. Oh, we think EDS, perhaps? Or maybe Marfan? Which sounds like it could be that as well, based on family history. Yeah, so basically, basically the loose joints that everybody was like, there, you're gonna grow out of it, that she didn't grow out of it. There was no grow out of it. And, and so now both of you know, she's needs Vizio, but everything. Like, it's just really hard. But she also, you know, this has always been her thing. And I, you know, again, I don't know where she gets it from, at all. Maybe me. But she also loves her theater and so wants to do all the theater classes. And so that's after school things and she also has a job now coaching swimming. And so that's also a thing that she's doing and you know, then I have to make it clear to me Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's very familiar to anyone and you know, I could, you know, 15 year old me would probably recognize that as well. Right? Like this. This is what 15 year old me did as well, just with different activities. Yeah. You know, and, and so it's it's she hasn't, thankfully hasn't ragequit everything Yeah, but feels like at a certain point would be that close. And but um, you know, and so I'm trying to help calibrate that with like, Okay, well we still have theater and you know, maybe you can take a little bit more hours coaching but you don't have to. And she's been actually pretty good. She's been like, No, I don't want to do more coaching right now, I just want to get into it. And we'll talk about, you know, I'll talk to her theater, you know, the theater teacher about getting more involved in this upcoming production, and all that kind of stuff. And so it's just it's she, she had we, we knew, right parents knew, we knew we looked at this, and we're like, this is not going to work. This is not going to work. And we tried to tell her
that and that didn't work, either. We have discussed on this podcast, yes. That Yes. Cathy semester was not.
Yeah. Balanced. No. And so we're, you know, now we're achieving some balance. And she's seen the, the benefits of it, where she's saying, like, Oh, it's so nice not to have to rush so much after school. And now I can do these other activities that I think are important and valuable to me. You know, and my, my value set and all that and so, but but that's, that's a hard and so I'm trying, I don't know if I'm doing a good job of modeling it, but I'm at least trying to help her navigate that, those particular things so that hopefully she can figure out how to balance it for herself because we are and doesn't burn out repeatedly for the rest of her life until she's in her 40s.
Well, look, this Yeah, this I mean, I hear a little bit of this in what you're describing with Cassie. And I think it's, it's probably something I will I know, it's something that I've done, it's probably something that you've done and something our listeners have done is that you rage quit one thing, right? Then you because you can't handle it, right? And then you start justifying that to yourself. By whatever time you were spending on thing a that you rage quit, you now redistribute that time to activities, B, C, and D like, oh, well, now I can take more hours. Yeah, like, ya know, right. Like, the problem was like, yes, there were too many different kinds of activities. But like the other problem is like what you cannot handle or what I cannot handle is just being overcommitted. Generally having too many things on schedule, where I do not have enough time to like, just come home and like do my stems while scratching the top of my head and like looking at memes, which I need some downtime. That's not scheduled. That's just like self time, daughters that time we try to be to have useful time, right? We're like, well, I can't, you know, I'm just going to sign up for an activity that will be restful for me, but sometimes just signing up for things as part of the problem, right. So like, often we we feel this sense of relief. The minute we quit something that we can't handle, and then that relief disappears, almost immediately replaced by guilt, right about not being able to handle it. And then we rationalize quitting one thing by doubling down on other things, which is just shifting the problem. Around. Yeah, right. There. We're
good at that. Right. Very good at that. Yeah. So good. It just
Yeah, it was like just listening to you say that. I was like, Oh, God, I do that. Like I do that. I said, like, well, since I'm not doing this now. I mean, it means I can really do a much better job of this other thing.
Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. No, and and that's what it the thing is, is that the challenge is, is it's again, all stuff that we love. Yeah. You know, like, it's not like, Oh, now I have more time for my homework. Like, I'm sure that that is a thing. But like, it's probably not going to invest more time in her homework. Yeah. Even if maybe she should. But no, she's her grades are fine. So it's not a big deal. But like, but like, it's like, okay, well, now I will feel this empty, empty time with something else that brings me pleasure and joy. Yeah.
Or was it something that makes me look like I'm a good person, right? Like, sometimes it's, you know, I will, you know, I will be so cranky or I'll be able to do more babysitting or, like, I'll be able to like, recommit to extra volunteer activities with this club as if like, just needing time. Yeah. To do nothing. is unacceptable is an unacceptable reason to quit things. And I think that's very much tied in with hustle culture. Yeah. And like, like, particularly with the way like kids these days, I will say like you and I Lee were the beneficiaries of benign neglect in parenting, right? Oh, yeah. Like yeah, thinking about that story you told about your paints Timex watch and you're like, can you imagine sending a six year old like, you could get into school? Wait when you're walking by yourself six year old so I'm gonna get you a watch. Get your shit together. You imagine and it took me a whole week. I did listen to that episode before but that's really weird. We don't do that anymore. Kind of independence and stuff.
are like Millennials was that he also like, clutching their pearls, which they don't even understand saying anymore, right?
I said that, I'm not even gonna get an Instagram, I'm not going to do my Instagram anymore unless I can get sponsored, right because like, I need to build my views because like for my package for the thing that I'm going to do is like, everything has to be optimized, and everything has to be sort of turned into some kind of hustle where you're building your personal brand to get into like a selective college or something, or you're building your resume and everything always has to be to the pursuit of something in the future. That you need to work really, really hard all the time to get that thing in the future. So anytime we try to give something up, because we can't handle it, we feel like we are like, it's like reading your 401k. Right, you feel like you're stealing from your own future. And it can really feel like quitting rage, quitting ballet is going to ruin your life. Yeah. Right. And that's on capitalism actually. Like, yeah, that's not an unreasonable to have. Because that's what people tell us. Like, you know, like, you're a quitter. Like, yeah, like, I'm gonna quit something so that I like I don't like scratch my scalp until they bleed, right? Because that's clearly distress.
Yeah, and I have actually written I've actually written about that a couple times on my blog, where I, you know, allow my kids to quit. Yeah, right, right, even half even midway through the year, because I want them to listen to their bodies, listen to their inner voices, listen to whatever it is to say, This is too much. Yeah, I cannot do this anymore. And doing it is no longer bringing me joy, but instead makes me miserable. And so like, anything, if particularly the kids anything that they do, I don't want them to do it. And it makes them miserable. Like, yes, we have to learn that sometimes you have to do things that aren't really enjoyable. But like, yeah, it's, you know, you don't have to dance, which is hard when that's been your identity for so long.
But you know, this reminds me right now, Lee of like, we had talked to another time about how to say no to things, right. And remember, like I was given everybody speeches about don't say, I'm sorry, but Right, like, because then it sounds like you want to do it. Right? And then people will be like, well, what if we change the date? You're like, you actually don't like and you're like, oh, okay, like, Oh, I'm sorry. But like, I'm busy that day, like so when we give people reasons for why we can't do some thing. And it encourages people to try to work around those reasons to make it work for us. Because we've never learned how to say, just know, right?
So you'll, you'll be proud of me, I actually admitted to that very tendency. So I was supposed to, I was supposed to have an essay in like, October, the Monday there was supposed to be an essay, a revision of an essay that I have a draft of. I was supposed to have it revised by Monday. And I've had to, yeah, but so you know, I started the email. And it's actually colleagues of mine that I worked with, who were who were editing this. And I said, Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one to email you today, asking for an extension. But to be perfectly honest, I don't even think an extension will help me at this point. So you know, and I kind of hemmed and hawed and they email back. It's like, so what you're saying is, you're not going to be contributing anymore. And I said, Yes, I'm not contributing anymore. Life is just too, you know. And it actually like, again, it felt really good. Yeah, it was just like, Oh, thank God, I don't have this to worry about. It's like, I'm just taking it off my to do list. And while it would have been good, and it's something that I'm interested in writing about, I could write about it later. I don't know if I'll write about it right now, for this particular issue for this particular volume. Under these particular circumstances, yeah. For you,
thank you saying yes, I'm really proud of you. And I hope you're not like and that means I'm going to double down on these four other things. I'm going to write like, just
like no, no, there is no, yeah, no, I'm not committing to, you know, anything else other than what is already on my calendar. For the next couple months, I'm not submitting anything. I am not. You know, there will be no abstract sent out there will be no.
Wow, there will be no so proud of you. Thank you.
Thank you. Great. You my friend, Leslie, in your in university. I mean, I've been University for 100 years. And my friend Leslie, for my PhD used to say like, you can have everything that you want, but you can't have it all at the same time. Yeah, right. And I think like with our lousy sense of time, and our strong sense of having to fake it until we make it and our strong sense that things that are hard for us, we should just try harder because you're not hard for other people and our sense that we are lesser than others because of the ways that we've that we're failing that we just tend to do try to do too much to the point of dysfunction, and then when the point of dysfunction, get angry at ourselves,
but even the things we're good at, right, like, the writing thing you're talking about. Yeah, exactly. And the teaching thing would you enjoy and are good at as well, where, you know, these are things that, you know, again, like, the hard stuff, I'm okay with less of maybe a little bit more okay with like, Alright, I'm gonna give up on this spreadsheet and see if I can find somebody else to do it. But like the writing, like, that's something that I should be able to do even under the worst
circumstances. You don't want to because you love it. Yeah. All right now,
but not right now. Not right now. Yep, this is so bad that I don't can't even Right. Which is fine. Right? Like, it's it? I mean, the circumstances are not fine. But the moment in time right now where I get to say, No, I can no longer do this is fine. Right? Yeah, that is in that moment. Okay, that you can't write this or that you can't go to this event, or you can no longer sit on this committee.
You know, like, it's, it reminds me a little bit of, like, it's a weather event. It's like an act of God, like what will be described in your insurance as an act of God. Right. Like, like you, you know, are insured for these things. And like, you know, don't do this. But unless it's an act of God, like in which case, you're sort of covered or whatever, right? Like that would be like, oh, like you didn't get hand your homework in because like a tornado flattened your house? Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. And they're not like, well, you could hand it in tomorrow. What? Oh, no. Yeah, actually, I'm just like, I'm not the person who's going to hand things in right now, because my house got flattened by a tornado. And that's actually going to take a bit of time. And you're like, in ideal circumstances, which is like always why we're late for things because we're like, as long as I get a parking spot, and I don't have any red lights, and I just don't have to scrape the
metro and it's not late. And there's no traffic. Yeah,
exactly. Because we're always cutting it so close to the bone that even though small thing goes wrong, it throws everything off. And then we're just like, well, I can make up for that. But sometimes, like something will happen. That is big enough that you're like, yeah, do you know what? I'm not going to do this thing now? Because it's unreasonable to think that I can just compartmentalize a tornado flattening my house, or like my husband almost dying of anaphylaxis in a public restroom in a mall after a dental surgery at nine o'clock in the morning. Like maybe I don't just be like, well, she's fine. Now. I'll catch up on that last day of work over the weekend. No, they won't. No, no, I spent the whole weekend crying. Right. Like, yeah, because it was it was terrifying. And it was, like, unreasonable to say like, I wish that wouldn't have happened. And so I'm just going to push through because normally, I'm very good at getting my grading done on time. Right? Yeah. But like, you know what, maybe you're not this time, like, maybe that's okay to let that go. And is the same way we can just say, when we're saying no to things like, unfortunately, I will not be able to do that. Not like I really wish I could and I'm sorry, I can't help you like, no, none of that. Just unfortunately, I can't. And it's so hard for me to do that. Again. I'm at this point. Now, when people ask me how things are going is like, I want to put a trigger warning you in front of what I'm going to say because yeah, and I tell people what my family has been through. lately. They are traumatized. Yeah. Yep. Right. And I'm just like, I'm so sorry to have to tell you like these things have happened to me because you're going to be upset. Like Barker's
on Christmas cards this year. Gonna be like, Oh, here's her urine review. Tray hoarding all the things. Too many things.
Things. Yeah, yeah. It's like, I don't want to tell people because I'm like, I don't know if you guys can handle this. Like you're gonna get secondhand trauma just from hearing this is like going out of my house. But
that's like, the worst question asked me right now. And they mean, well, when they say like, how are you doing? And I'm like, not great. But also, yeah.
Yeah. So, like, we should probably drop soon. But I one of the things that I was reading about what really helps with this type of burnout, you know, when like, you find yourself in this position where either daily overly doing it for a long enough period of time leads you into dysfunction, and it's a kind of comical dysfunction where like, first you get a G, and then you get bitchy, right, and then all this, you remember the name or of your office building, like stuff like that, where it's like these weird outcrops of massive dysfunction, followed by rage and crying. And when this starts to happen, the way to get out of it is to stop that almost universally what people in neurodivergent burnout, express a desire for is for the world to pause, because they can't even think about all my responsibilities. I couldn't Have these people well in the world will carry on? Carry on without? honestly do not see how possible just like we could just Paul All right, until I stop putting great until I love sleep or until I managed to eat. So like, you know, as much as you are able to put things on pause, maybe not with literally everything when you're in a moment of crisis because you can't. But it is okay to say I cannot do this now. And another thing that people express as being tremendously helpful in a period of burnout is for people to believe you. Yes, right. Yes. So we'll discuss this Silverado on another episode is like, I don't need people to say no, no, you can do it. I believe in you. Like, I'll give you another two days to get this thing done. And it just increases the pressure. Because you're like, I'm trying to tell you that I can't. You're telling me that I can't. And you're calling that support? Right? Just please know that for most neurodivergent people, it's very, very hard for us to say, I actually can't do this. Yeah, right. So to be sort of met with Bobal? If we did the, then would you be able to now you feel really guilty because somebody is really wants you to do it. You feel high responsibility, and they're being so nice to you. You don't want to say no. So sometimes you're like, Yeah, okay, maybe one more week, I'll get it done. And then that whole week is miserable, because you know, you're not gonna get it done. You're also not having the mental break, that you would have got if they had just released you get the obligation, right. So it's better for if you're trying to support someone who's in burnout, because like neurotypical people have a bit of difficulty, like understanding why this is happening, and why it looks like Oh, can't be depressed, because I saw you get really angry at somebody, and you're like, you went and ran for three hours, because you were so crazed about something that's not depression, or like, just don't worry, slash like, no, no. Like, when I get full body, I again, go mute and talk and make the talk the leaves in the front yard, that's burnout. It's not anxiety or depression, to have somebody say, like, I believe you would say, can't do it. What can we do to get you out of these things like people immediately release a lot of stress that would be stopping. You are not map skiing below. dysfunction is your reality. So able to just stop for a while, is hugely helpful.
And, and like, trying to find yourself a sense much more acutely aware of bit, ellenson or environment that do tend to bother us, right, they become much more bothersome when we are in a state of burnout because it's a little bit like being in a fight or flight state because your senses become much more when you're in a fight or flight state, right? So the weird hum that the refrigerator makes it sometimes now 10 times louder and 40 times as disruptive and 100 times more enraging. Just because you're burnt out and it doesn't seem like what's happening is that you're burnt out, but that's what that is. And so being able to soothe yourself by creating a sensory environment that's less irritating in those ways is a great help. And what's the other thing is allowing yourself to indulge in the self soothing behaviors that you often disguise with your mask. So if you like need to fidget, right, fidget like maybe if you're, if your Sims are like picking out your cuticles until they bleed, you find something else that you can, can pick out or a handcraft that you can do or a fidget spinner and just let yourself go wild on it. Because neurodivergent people those those items that we're often encouraged to get rid of, so that we can pass for normal are actually self soothing strategies. And we will not feel better if we don't let ourselves use our self soothing strategies. So making a nicer sensory environment for yourself, finding people who will support you, and believe you that you cannot deal with things right now find ways to detach, even temporarily from some of your obligations and really allowing yourself to lean into the stem behaviors of the self care behaviors that you have maybe suppressed in in the desire to seem more normal to others, like now is the time to indulge in those if you need. I mean, other than that people just need time, people need time and a release from responsibility and some responsibilities leave you and I cannot be released from No, you know, but other ones we can and maybe we don't get to go like a sort of Calgon take me away from everything moment. But if Calgon could take us away from 80% of it. Just like asked for a little while. Just get back.
Yeah. So that better that that weather thing made me think of one of possibly the most relaxing days of my life. Um, so this is a job interview at George Mason University, but here in DC and this is when I was living in Kentucky, and it was in the winter at it. It was so funny. So it was supposed to be one day interview on a Wednesday. Oh, yeah, that's fine. Or, um, I was scheduled to fly out on Tuesdays fly through Charlotte, and end up in at DCA, I think and then fly home at the end of the day Wednesday. Yeah. So, one thing about Charlotte is that it is constantly shutting down because of ice storms. So they don't get snow. They get ice storms.
Oh, so there was an ice lion. Yeah. So
there was an ice storm. So I get a notification. It's Monday, sort of getting ready in this job interview. Keep in mind, it's a job interview. Yeah. So like, there's there's some stress involved. So um, so what ends up happening is I get a notification saying that there is whether you need to reschedule your flight. So I get in touch with the with the hiring committee and said, Can I get an extra night at the hotel? Because they're telling me I have to leave today? On Monday, right? And they're like, yep, that's fine. It's, we'll we'll get that for you. It's okay. I said, Okay, thank you rush. And we're an hour away from the airport at this point. Right? Right. We are an hour away from the airport, pack everything in it in a rush, pack everything jump in the car, drive to the airport. Like get it thankfully, it's a small airport. There's like almost never anybody in line insecurity so that you can just sort of run right through, get to the desk flights delayed. I'm not going to make my connection in Charlotte. Oh, my God. But you say the word job interview and magically things happen. So they're like, well, we can't get you there. But there's a direct flight on another airline tomorrow morning. And we'll give you a hotel tonight in Lexington.
Right? Yeah. Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, it gets better.
Don't Oh, just it's better. So I call my family and I'm like, Are you guys on the road? And they're like, No, I'm like, Okay, well, let's see, I have I have a food voucher. And I have a hotel voucher. So you don't have to come back first. Because the because the other thing is, is that flight, I'd taken that flight often the Lexington to DC flight is that like, it's the 7am 6:30am special flight that gives you in their flight. Yeah, it's the commuter flight. So like, no need to drive me back. I have a hotel room. But let's all eat dinner together since this was also rushed, had dinner, slept and got on the flight. Got into got into DC had a whole day on Tuesday, where it was just sort of didn't have to do anything because the interview is tomorrow. So go through go through that to have an have a really nice day. See some old friends with lives who live in the area. Wednesday, the job interview, and now the weather system that was giving freezing rain to Charlotte has moved its way north into Virginia. And it is going to snow.
Oh, no. So I am
throughout the day at the job interview. It is getting increasingly clear. And they're trying to make a decision of if they're going to shut down campus tomorrow.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, let alone and I'm like about to meet. I don't even remember, it was like my last interview of the day. Or like meet and greet. It wasn't part of the interview. But you know, how they'd like parade you around the campus and meet various stakeholders and all that kind of stuff. I was about to beat into my last one. And I was waiting because they were making the call whether or not to actually officially close campus and call in like all of the emergency snow clearers, and all that kind of stuff. And I get a push notification from my phone saying that, by the way, your flight tonight slash tomorrow has been canceled.
Oh, super, like great. I hope you hire me because I live here now.
Yeah, well, but then so. So it snows. And it snows overnight. And, you know, no one's getting in and out of campus. The only people who are staying at the hotel at this point, are the extra like groundskeepers that they brought in to clear out campus. Right. And so, you know, I'm stuck at the hotel. I'm not getting out of here. There's no flights. I'm not, you know, I can't get home. And so I just have this day at the hotel where I don't have to do anything.
Oh, my God. Was it great?
It was great. I love it. I mean, it was just like, because I didn't have my family there so I didn't have to worry about any of that. You know, they didn't have weather they were fine. So just had that whole Thursday. have like, I sit and watch TV. I think I watched it. I watched The Tragically Hip documentary that day and was like crying. Anyways, something like that. It was just there I watched something on on ridiculous on Netflix that made me like Thayer therapeutically cry saw you know I got some like writing done that was my own stuff. I was just like it was super chill when
they're old was on pause because the world was on the world was literally on pause you got that day I got the day where everything stopped.
Exactly. Everything literally stopped then. And then and it was good too because I was sort of like well, you know you can get me home to any number of airports. It could be Lexington and be Louisville, it could be Cincinnati, whatever we get to drive will. So the Gobi innocency and now the weather has moved into Kentucky.
I mean, sure it has. Yeah.
So what was supposed to be a two hour drive from the Cincinnati airport to Moorhead and ended up taking five hours.
Oh, that's my favorite. That's great.
But that Thursday, man, so one day job interview ended up being this five day ordeal. Right, but I did get
trying to get Yeah. Get back trying to get back to Kevin. Yeah, like, look, I had that same day too. It's really funny. i Okay, wait for it. I was giving a talk at Princeton. It was me and Ruthie Rubik arisen. And we were going to take our show on the road. And we were going to be doing a workshop at the Digital Humanities Center at Princeton. And then we're each giving talks and yeah, they shut down for snow like so our talk, in fact, got canceled because because campus was closed. And I was in the hotel, they put you up that's just to campus. And I had the same day as you like, it was so miserable. You couldn't even go outside like and I am from Canada. I know from snow. This was like an outrageous kind of New Jersey, eastern seaboard snow storm where it was like, like a truly outrageous amount of snow. And I mean, other than the fact that I was very hungry, because a power went out in a lot of Princeton. Yeah, in the town. And so my hotel was one of the only places that had power and like so we didn't get food from the restaurant because everybody in town has a restaurant. But it was empty. I just like stayed in my hotel room, which is like, you know, fluffy duvet and like beautiful decorating. I look out the window at this like gorgeous snow. And it was like literally act of God. It was out of my hands. Yes. Right. I couldn't give my talk. I couldn't do anything with a meal couldn't do it because everything was closed. And I was just like, I felt so guilty about like, guilty that Princeton was you know, paying for my hotel room, and I wasn't doing anything. I mean, like talk about misplaced anxiety. But there you have it, right. And I just remember that feeling of peace. On that day of just like, it was a timeout, it was a timeout. And I wish all of us we could not have to wait for like a once every 20 years snowstorm to trap us right like that we could take a snow day when we need it. Right, where things would just stop and people be like, oh, like, don't worry about it, nobody could do it. Like, like, you don't have to bring your kids to whatever because the roads are not passable, and like you will not be flying home today just spend an extra night in the hotel. No problem or like, you don't have to teach because like nobody can get to campus or like whatever it is, and everybody's just like, they agree. We're going to stop and like, at least like in the pandemic in the early parts of the pandemic, like I think people may be coped a little better than they coped later. Because like in the beginning, when everything shut down, everything shut down. And they were like, there are no rules, and everybody gives up. Right? And that's okay, just give up for a while.
Unless, unless you were in my job, in which case we had to figure out. Well, sure,
you had to ramp up. Yeah. But like, in most cases, it was like, yeah, there's no more extracurriculars, there's no more there's like Do your best, do your best. And I think as like the pandemic proceeded and things open and then close and then open and then closes. And people are like, well, you know, cognitively we're over it. So now we're gonna pretend as if this is not incredibly stressful and disruptive, and we're going to ramp back up to the expectations are everybody's functioning at 100%, even though the world is that 65%, right. And like, this is, like my three doctors said today that he thinks work is like I'm being cynical. I'm like, oh, it's no great when your goal when they're doing a consult with you, and he was like, I'm pretty sure everybody's gonna burn out. He's like, they're just everyone is on their own timeframe for burning out is like, we all need a sort of existential act of God snow day where it's okay to stop using things. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So burn out. There we are.
It looks different, because everything always does with us.
Yeah, but it's real. Yeah. But it's real. I
encourage everybody to like, look it up. And we'd love to hear about, you know, people's experiences and be aware that you're sensory issues, irritation, lack of executive function. Maybe you're not depressed. Maybe you're not anxious. Maybe you are burnt out because of your done fondest wish is to have a timeout from life before it starts again. Maybe you're in burnout.
Yep. Yep. And don't wait. Like I did and probably will get it until your body I'm literally rebels. That's right. That's makes you sick.
Yes. Yes, you've gone too far. By that point. You've gone too far
at that point, which, you know. And also, you know, like so ADHD burnout again, like talk about ADHD burnout, because I think that there's, I'm sure that it looks different for people with ADHD than it does for neurotypical people. Definitely. Absolutely. I think there's again, like everything a lot of Venn diagram overlap between various neurodivergent. Yeah, yep. Your neurodivergent sees, so that your divergences is now
cool brain people. Yeah. They're cool. Weirdo brains are wired, oh, Braining in other ways,
but also just to say, because my therapist asked me a couple of weeks ago, and then it got sidetracked because life she was weird. It was in an okay, we were in an okay place. Things went to hell. So I didn't do this. But she asked for, like, five things that I do that actually bring me joy, or pleasure or peace, or something like that. And top of my list was recording this podcast. Oh, my last was Fridays at 1130. When we can, that this race, like I'll be able to next week, by the way.
Here we go. Maybe we'll split this one in half.
Maybe we'll know because that's too much work. I don't have enough spoons for fighting.
I have to say my favorite thing about our last episode that we published the one on difficult or easy beauty is that it actually opens with you burping and I was like I love I love. Like already. It's a hot mess. I think I called it like a lumpy pumpkin of an opening. But like, yeah, look, people that's where we are. Right? Yeah, maybe we seem like we have our shit together sometimes. And sometimes we do. And we're Oh yeah. On the podcast. Like, here are some things I've learned. And here's some advice for listeners. And we're so self aware and have insight and like, I've been crying everyday this week, and things are not going well. Right? Yeah, same thing for you. And we're like, we're on every two or three weeks publishing schedule right now because things are so dire, that even though we both love recording this podcast with one another and it is like a spoons giving activity is just not even been possible. So maybe part of the gift that we I'm trying to reframe this for myself, part of the gift we can give to our listeners now is like, like, yeah, we also don't have our shit together sometimes, but we will again, right gonna have in the past and we will again, it's just sometimes life intervenes. And it's okay. It's okay when that happens.
Right. That feels like it says enough times. It'll be
right, but it clicked my Ruby Slippers. Yeah, either.
Like, go take my afternoon nap because my body's still like I use so much please just rest. But Do do do add us do email us if you add us on Twitter, I'm ready writing. And I or did you want I was gonna say you or did you want
your I could hear you struggling a little bit. And I was like, Wait, is this where I'm supposed to say my like puck we honestly, no functioning?
No. Our email address is all the things adhd@gmail.com shared your ADHD browser if you had a day, or an event, that was a pause, you know, maybe not snow day oriented. And again, understanding how weather can actually be really stressful. If it is being destructive, and not just stuck at a hotel room. Well, you should be giving an academic talk or a job interview instead. But But yeah, when one of those things were everything accidentally get canceled. And then all of a sudden you find yourself in a time where it's like oh, I actually don't have anything to do right now.
Yeah, like the the entirety of a very merry Christmas.
Yeah, yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes.
pleasurable you? Right. Yeah, that's yes, that explains it. All right. We should stop now. And we'll be back eventually, someday, someday sooner rather than later. This is just setting expectations.
Setting expectations. Just not meeting expectations.
Yes, yeah.
Thank you for your patience, everyone. It's going to take them four weeks to listen to this episode.
Right? We love listeners and
unfortunately, okay, all right. That's it. We're getting off this podcast right now. Okay. Bye, everyone. Bye everyone.
