oh, there's wine for the slide. An empathic way, here's Rogers also says an empathic way of being with another person has several facets. It means entering the private perceptual world of the other and becoming thoroughly at home in it. It involves being sensitive moment to moment, to the changing felt meanings which flow in this other person to the fear or rage or tenderness or confusion or whatever he or she is experiencing. So again, he's describing that basic empathy. And you can use all these as reference if you're trying to explain to someone what Empathy means, kind of the basic aspect, another aspect of empathy is self empathy, which is, you know, feeling, sensing into your own experience. And it's, it's having that sensing into feeling, a sense of connection, of acceptance, understanding that you apply inwards. And Rogers also addresses that experience of self empathy. He doesn't call it self empathy, but he says being listened to by someone who understands makes it possible for a person to listen more accurately to themselves with greater empathy towards their own visceral experiencing their own vaguely felt meanings. So going back to self empathy, by the active listener listening to the speaker, they are supporting the speaker in self empathy. So again, you can reference that in the empathy circle. And the next part is what I call imaginative empathy. And you see a lot of times when people talk about cognitive empathy, they say, well, that's imagining some, you know some, someone, you know, what they would feel and think like and that is like a different experience than being directly with someone and listening and feeling, you know, your way into that. That's sort of a role playing aspect. And with that, we have imaginative empathy. And that's I think, what Meryl Streep meant, she says, I've thought a lot about the power of empathy in my work, and it's the current that connects me, in my actual pulse, to a fictional character in a made up story. It allows me to feel and pretend feelings, and that's like an actor you can take on a role, and the like in this is Meryl Streep, you know, taking on the role of Margaret Thatcher and Julia Child. And you could do an empathy circle, right with, with, with taking on roles like this is all four roles that Meryl Streep has done. And those roles, you could take on those roles. And those roles could be in an empathy circle, listening to each other, so that it adds the layer of imagination. And I think this is something that's not really talked about. You know, it's kind of kind of muddled in this term cognitive empathy, which I think is just not very descriptive. So again, you can take on a role, and you can take on the role of an animal, you know, and say, what is it like to be this animal? And then, you know, speak from that. And then your active listener would say, Oh, I hear you're feeling, you know, really hungry, and you really like to eat, you know, whatever. So you could, you know, imagine, have that, then you can again, you can imagine anything you know, you can imagine yourself being fruit, for that matter. So that's sort of the, you know, touching on this notion of imaginative empathy, which is, you know, a very open, creative sort of way of sensing into and understanding the world, like basic empathy is sort of a way of knowing, and this is kind of a direct way of knowing, and imaginative empathy is more of an imaginative way of knowing the world. And then the other part is what i. Call holistic empathy, and this is usually empathy is seen, you know, from an individualistic point of view. It's just the speaker, you know, is empathizing. But there's a quality of empathy, which is when everybody is has self empathy, and we're all listening to each other, it creates sort of a little culture of empathy, a holistic quality of empathy, where we're all mutually in a mutual relationship, and there's a general quality, overall quality of that empathy, way of empathic way of being. And that's sort of the culture you know, that holistic empathy is really what I see. So basic empathy is sensing into another's experience, self. Empathy is sensing into, you know, our own visceral experiences. Imaginative empathy is sort of an imagining an experience. And the holistic empathy is sensing into the sort of the community's experience and and mutual empathy between all sort of parties. And with that, I got one minute next step. I would just remind everyone to some next steps. You can ground the definitions you hear in the empathy circle, ground the criticisms of empathy in the empathy circle will be addressing a lot of those criticisms, you know, to map them onto the empathy circle. And most of those criticism I don't get too worried about, because they're not even talking about what I would call empathy. And, you know, in the empathy circle, where you see this playing out, and, yeah, you can contact me if you're interested in being part of the study group that's working on this. You can, you can contact me, and you can, if you're we have really great group that's working on this, so that's it. Thank you so much. And.