Wine & Webinar: A Conversation with Andrew Davis
10:15PM Feb 23, 2021
Benson, all day long, but this was the one that I woke up thinking about you.
How are you, man.
yeah yeah how's it going
great. How are you, I feel really like you made me just feel exhausted after four events, I'd be napping right now I'm not drinking a glass of wine.
thank you for making time for us in all your virtual event world,
it's it's a it's one of the differences, right, like we can all, you can't do back to back conferences, several in a day. If it was live. No,
this is very true.
there is that.
How often do you do, so you're doing virtual events all the time now.
Yeah, yeah, I'm averaging maybe two or three a week, probably for you see it's yeah it's been it's been exhausting.
You, so give us the basics, it not everyone maybe knows you yet, who's true Davis.
Hey, Drew Davis Well, I worked in television for half of my career and I started a marketing agency, and I've been marketing for the last, since 2001 so I don't know how many years that 20 years. Hey, it's my 20 year marketing anniversary I don't know what that is. And, yeah, I've been, I've written a couple of books I wrote brand scaping, which is all about content partnerships that lead to bigger and better success for everybody. And I wrote a book called townie, which is all about marketing cities and towns and places, which is kind of a passion project of mine. And today I just can, you know, I just speak and write, and in fact I just submitted today. I like to hit the button Send button on a book I'm writing with another guy named Michael Port, all about professional speaking.
So, and that's the, that's my that's it is in a short nugget. Yeah,
I saw him in one of your videos. Now that was great. You're getting some feedback on your audio, or do you have a loud mic on.
that is it is that the microphone set on zoom.
Yeah. Click that.
It sounds a bit echoey as if it's the computer mic.
I think it's just my room right now selected microphone partner here. It's fine if
that's if that's. If it is what it is
like a little hollow because I, I just redesigned the whole studio. So it's like it's a bit of a mess and I don't have any soundproofing up, I think that's why
you're great. You didn't mention video.
And you do a lot of videos Yes
you do. Yes you do. So, I could look it up. I remember the day we met. I got a selfie of the day we met.
I remember it well.
Yep, yep, you signed you signed my program. I saw
you had a project it wasn't just that I signed your program you were doing like a cool project where we, like we gave a quote or something and then you were putting together like a content marketing world yearbook or something like that I
get it wrong. No, no, but I've met you before that, we go back a little bit farther than that but I do, but I, I can pull that one out of the archive that little bit of video you made for us back then. Okay, but you gave a presentation so this is how a lot of people I think first met you, or when you exploded onto the scene of content marketing. Amanda was there with me. You gave a presentation that was the highest rated presentation at content marketing world, which gave you the honor of the following year being the keynote at content marketing world, which was a big stage and you gave a hilarious presentation that I want to talk about. And if I'm not mistaken, you actually won you you earned that honor twice. Were you the top speaker at content marketing world twice.
Yes. 2013 and 2018 maybe I think those are the two years that was the keynote some of the years, the years prior, I was the highest rated keynote, which is, which is like it's something I spent all year trying to earn so I'm really proud of it.
You worked very, you are clearly a very hard working, Speaker, I look at the the effort the videos, the research that goes into it. You gave a lot of very custom presentations. But the first the first time I was waiting the back, it's a it's a room of like 4000 people. You gave a presentation, where you basically blew up one of my comfort concepts as a marketer, the idea of the funnel. Oh yeah. And you said there is no funnel. It's a ridiculous notion, watch this and you basically told the story of yourself going through and making a marketing decision and all the things. So, do I have to go. I mean, is it, Is it okay if I still believe in the funnel or tell us why we should not assume as true fact, all the other marketing notions of the funnel.
First of all, it's a really good idea and so if we try to convince you to just think past the funnel This is my goal for tonight. The phone was invented in 1898 by St. Louis, and it like, I don't know why I have to go further than that like he was, he was working at a Detroit advertising agency in 1898 and his, his agency name by the way, was the agency. That was the. That was it. And so since 1898, we've tried, we've tried to like rethink the funnel we've renamed some things in fact here, I'll draw you what you drew originally in 1898 by candlelight because there were no lights here we go, here, you're ready here we go. This is what he drew. It's basically this a scale. All right. And on this side, he had the sale. That's what he was trying to get okay yeah on this side, he had four things. He had a. He had I, right. Yeah, D. C. He wanted to get the attention interest desire conviction of the prospect right and then if you got all four things that scale with tip in your favor and you win the sale Yay, that's what he drew in 1898, and since then we've been trying to figure this out and, like, you know, make it look better we drew a funnel and we drew both sides. The Fall is outdated we don't buy in a linear fashion anymore just like they did like, it's not just you just get everybody's awareness by a bunch of as you know people interested in what you're talking about. shows some interest, get them to commit to something and then you're off to the races, and I think the most important thing is it doesn't account for our ability today in a modern era, to build a relationship with prospects clients, customers in a much more meaningful way in small little micro loans that can make a bigger impact in the long term, it just leaves the whole idea of customer, and prospect nurturing off the table, and people try to make funnels that look like they're nurturing or they sandwich nurturing into the funnel that's not that's not how it works. So I've been at one of my projects for the last five years has been working on the loyalty loop which is I think is a much better way to think about how people buy today.
We're going. This is excellent. This is what I want to get to because your, your next points are really impactful and have changed my thinking a lot over the years, and I trust you, I'm loyal to your content, I love what you're doing, moments you keep talking about moments, what are Yes, so let's set funnel aside, what are the moments, what moments, should we worry about think about focus on.
Okay, there are two really really important moments, there is a here I'll draw you is the drawing helpful.
Yes No no I love this. This is fun.
There are two moments that are really, really important. All right. This one is called the moment of inspiration, the mo ii. All right, one moment of inspiration. Yeah, like this Katie, okay, this is called the M OC, the moments of commitment. And these are the, these are the two fundamental moments that we have to understand deeply understand in the mind of the consumer if we're really going to be successful. Let me just explain quickly. All right, here we go. The moment of inspiration is an instant time that sends you on a journey you never expected. The moment of inspiration is an instant in time, that sends you on a journey you never expected. So, maybe, maybe tonight you tuned into this webinar, Bob. Bob has showed up on the webinar. Right. And he's like, Who is this guy. And as soon as I said I've written two books, may have been I mentioned the brand escaping title, I might have created a moment of inspiration in his life where he's like, Oh, I'm gonna check out my brand escaping from Andrew Davis that's a moment of inspiration, I'm sending on a journey suddenly that you never expected maybe he already opened up another browser tab, and is looking at brand scaping on Amazon, okay that's now moments of inspiration happen all the time they happen in b2b they have an ad b2c, they have it. If you're sitting in a meeting, and somebody says hey, you know, our website is really really crappy is hasn't been updated in five years, we should really consider rebuilding our website because our leads are not coming in, and the boss all of a sudden sits and leans back in his chair and says, Oh, we do need a new website that's a moment of inspiration, right there that just happened. Okay. The other moment every moment of inspiration leads to a moment of commitment, and a moment of commitment is not just the sale like in the funnel is like we just need to get the sale anyway, but you got to say I'll move on, get more people into the phone people's people are in this model, the moment of commitment is the instant we trade money data, or time data and time are just as valuable as money today for information to support a cause or to buy your product or service. So we're trading that money, data, and that information with our consumers so that we can build a better relationship and moments of commitment happen like all the time, and they happen in very short ways. Today, when we use a funnel to think through this. It's like, we don't actually think about the micro interactions we can create, they create new moments and inspiration in the mind of the consumer to keep them going on our journey. So, so those are the two main moments and there's a bunch of little ones but if you understand a moment of inspiration leads to a moment of commitment, and that they happen all the time, like here. Like the slinky. This is more what I think of as building a consumer relationship. So if you create a moment of inspiration at the top, that leads to a moment of commitment, maybe that lower commitment is just the time to watch a YouTube video that you create trust a moment of commitment, right, that will lead to a new mode of inspiration in that video you might be caught Wait, who is this guy, Andy crestodina this awesome video about how to use Google tags, who's in the Caribbean, that's a moment of inspiration and maybe you go to LinkedIn and spend some time looking at and Christina's page, that's a moment of commitment, and then maybe you see that you work for overseas, and you're like what is one of the studios that's a moment of inspiration that you're not, this is the journey people are. When we think of them as micro moments, we're taking the doubters at the top and barely notice don't know anything. And we're building them through this long little string of interactions to the biggest moments of commitment we can create, and we're taking them from doubters to trusted relationships at the bottom. That was, that was pretty, I am pretty passionate about the loyalty, but, you know, we've talked about it before but the slinky kind of helped me understand like you're talking about a lot of them write this. Exactly, a lot alike. It could be hundreds or 1000s of little moments that can make the difference between a really high quality client or prospect or consumer and a really quick sale, like, if you follow the funnel you might get lots of little sales. If you want to build an experience that drives the highest margin business, you need to think in moments of commitment and moments of inspiration, that just constantly keep spinning and build an experience that shows how you're different. I was on a call earlier
today where someone was sort of lamenting it's like oh yeah they say you need nine touch points before someone has enough trust, like like as if nine was a lot, you're talking about way more than nine. Right.
Yeah, it could be way more than nine and I know for any marketer This feels overwhelming but it only feels overwhelming because we're thinking in the funnel terms like you have a landing page and the landing pages can get you to do this and that should lead to an email that's going to get them to do this. And then, oh, give them the sale price and then they're gonna buy three pages and you're done. Like, that's how we've been thinking, but we don't communicate that way anymore. I mean, like, we, you know, if you order a pizza from Domino's you can track every little step of the journey, and you can even tell it to text you when it goes in the oven and when Marcia took it out to check it and we communicate in rapid fire small little moments that can make the difference between a great experience, and a terrible one and so, yes, it can be hundreds of little moments but the more you map out the moments, the more you'll realize there are lots of things you probably do internally that you don't tell your clients and customers about, and they're all opportunities to tell them what you're doing, so that they have a better experience and build a deeper relationship.
I have to build a presentation soon on this concept that there's two different kinds of marketers strategists, and optimizers. Yeah, I think I included you in this post runs right. It was like you did, you are, you are a strategist, that steps back and looked at the context, the audience, the position. I watched a video you did once, where you were looking at this guy's website and saying like, he wanted to show you his website he's like the roofing or the siding guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah he's like look at my site, so I'll try to summarize, and then I'll pass the ball to you. He shows you his website he says look at my nice site. Look, I've got pictures. Look, I've been around for a while. Look, and you're like, you sound like everybody else. And then you look deeper. Yeah. And then you look and, you know, I'm looking at the site thinking of like little visual differences that might make it slightly more I'm thinking about optimization, you're thinking about his position, you're thinking about what's different. And you found something that was very different. Talk about differentiation and like, when a brand note, really needs to step back and put themselves in a different light. You know, is that is that is there is that when you look at something is it obvious to you that this is poorly positioned or needs a different strategy, or do you look at something and say like this this you know this just needs some, some, you know, buffed out rough spots and trim it around the edges.
First of all, it's a really keen observation. That, I think, I think the key to really great differentiation in today's marketplace is is really based on creating an experience that feels different. And that that doesn't mean just the experience of working with you but even the online experience needs to represent how you treat your clients and customers differently how you're different than everybody else in the marketplace, like I know Lynn said in the chat that decision making, isn't a linear process and feelings and emotions are a big part of that. And he was absolutely right. That's, that's what I think is missing from most, most web experiences that I have, and maybe it's because I don't think I'm special like I have some amazing strategic insight. I just have the opportunity. Every time I'm invited to speak at, you know, like a Funeral Directors Association or the, which I think you've spoken out before today he, you know, okay, or like the next week I'm speaking for, you know, air conditioning contractors and then two weeks later I was speaking for, you know, HP partners that installed big you know high end like computer systems. And what I usually do when I get booked for one of these engagements, is I try to go look at, like, as many websites, as I can to get a flavor for what their messaging is and what they're telling their customers and clients, and we will quickly find within just a very short search, is that everybody is telling people the same thing in just a small little different way. And every website looks exactly the same. And it's that I have this whole theory that it's based on twinning, you know, the other concept that that idea that you show up to work and everybody's wearing the same clothes as you or you know you dress like your wife or your partner
know my wife, my wife has a theory that people who wear vests, give permission to other people in their friend group to also wear vests.
Oh, she's, she's absolutely right. It is a psychological phenomenon is documented and, you know, even in a, in a dating situation, within six weeks of dating someone is proven that the psychologists have done a bunch of studies that you will start dressing a life subconsciously, and I think there's corporate twinning that constantly goes on. But if you say you're in the construction industry, you've got to have a website that looks like a construction company, because you've been so close and so in that industry that that's all you think about. So when, when I look at a website I like thinking, you know, I just was doing Domino's websites last week and they look very different but um but you know I was doing restaurants and now I'm doing hp. And so, why aren't we thinking more like everybody else in the marketplace because that's the real marketplace, but the answer to get to the bottom line. You've got to show people you're different. Now instead of telling them you're different. right and that's, that's how Telstra You did it, that company you were talking about, they ended up changing their marketing to reflect the experience they deliver, which is basically, they, they let you know exactly what's being done to your house, even when you're not at home. That was their, their kind of key to their success. So when it worked in a loyalty loop right when their customers like oh my gosh this is so successful What a great experience and they were referring people using that exact mantra, then they put it on their homepage, and that's when their marketing experience they provide.
Yeah, that's like a brilliant example of a little bit of Jay Baer type stuff where you create you facilitate word of mouth. Yes, you know, that guy had a great way. Go ahead.
Yes. No, I was just gonna say that's a word of mouth is a great example of a moment of inspiration. A great marketer should be focused on creating like taking modes of commitment and turning them into new moments of inspiration, even if that moment of inspiration is for a friend of a family member or a client or a customer, and then putting them straight into the next moment of commitment, so that you're like, this is like the top down look on the, on that right. You got moments of inspiration that look like that, and basically if you can get a great vote of commitment, a client that signs up, you, you provide a great experience here, like imagine if you attach emojis to every one of the you know the interactions you have with your client or customer. You want the some of those emojis to be like, oh yeah that was amazing. Like I loved it. And that's when people refer you that is that yeah exactly what Jay Baer talks about.
So to create that first arrow. It's to. So in that example that guy was making videos that were easily shared that would say like, you know, so, so what we didn't describe is the example where drew did some strategic work with this with this guy who had a siding company and like Tulsa or something. He. Yeah, I was very different in that he would upload a video for every client so they could see exactly what was done on their house today like every day you get a degree video that doesn't progress like very different. So, yeah, that facilitates word of mouth because the video can be shared right it's like oh, you don't know what your contract is doing, look at my guy I can see exactly what he's doing he's drawing arrows on my on this video.
He does videos, and then he does it every day he's on the job. Remember, it's not just the first time right I get traditional marker and be like, send it once and like that's all we need right but when you're thinking like, you're trying to make sure that you're constantly creating that experience. And so, for every for every 11 videos he sends out on on the first day he's on the job so he shows up on the job at one o'clock in the afternoon all this format have been trained how to shoot these little videos, they upload them to unlisted unlisted videos on YouTube, then they send the email to the client and say hey, you know, here's how far we've gone here's what you should expect by 5pm. And for every day he's on the job. He gets. He gets 11 referrals that first day, and he closes seven of them. That's 11 referrals that for the job. That's because his experience is so different, and they say things like, hey, check this out. This is what my, they'll even do it in the office like people will call over their buddy in the office and be like, check this out. You got to see this. They go, Hey, what's the name of your contract right like
that's how it works. You'd be like, I gotta have something here that needs siding, I really want to call this guy. Exciting just to use him.
I don't, I will break a window to hire that guy.
Okay so that guy has a natural advantage by being trans being just shockingly transparent in a way that's easily shared, how can how can we translate that into our into our businesses or just other examples may be, like, how to facilitate mouth and turn commitment into inspiration.
There are there are six things, Drew I
am loving your this TV show that we're on.
Hey, there are six things that anyone can do, and these are these are what I call the six month human drivers and they fit into that loop. And basically the one he uses that is unbelievably powerful is scaling camaraderie. All right, it's number six on the list there. But scaling camaraderie. Here I'll show you a little thing. Scaling camaraderie, actually fits right here. All right, in the loop, and it's really skinny camaraderie is basically building mutual trust and respect between oh hey that's my, That's the rest of my office on camera, my bad. Okay. robberies is Yeah, leaving it is scaling camaraderie is just building mutual trust and respect between you, your company and the people behind it and the clients and customers you serve. And so he does this just in there are three simple ways anyone can do it, let me just wrap it up like that one, you the easiest way is to expose your internal processes. All right, so here's what used to happen, that tells renew, he used to go by at five o'clock. He checked on the work he knocked on the client's door and say, Hey, I hope you're satisfied with the work today, you know that hole that's on the side we're gonna clean up tomorrow and they weren't they were very appreciative. But it was a little too late. You know, they wanted to know what was going on when he was at the office. So he took that internal process and made it a process that everybody can follow, and that's what Domino's Pizza does and there are lots of great examples of companies that expose the internal process. Number two way to expand to scale camaraderie, you got to expand your team, especially during the lockdown world we live in. It feels like everybody's just on a zoom camera, and I don't know if Orbitz studios is just Amanda and Andy, or if you guys have 40 more employees maybe you do maybe you don't. One of the best things you can do to scale camaraderie is introduce new team members in very simple way so like let's say you're working on a web design project. And, you know, with a with a client that you're working with. And you usually don't expose the design team members or their process to your client you just show them the final output right. One of the best things you can do is say, hey, Barbara, guess what, Jesse has just started working on your designs, she's really having a great time. I saw your desk into the screenshot of what she was working on I'm so excited about it. Here's the screenshot, can't wait to show you the designs in two weeks, that scales Ferrari because now she feels like Jesse's part of the team, and somebody who's really working on it. And the last the last thing you can do. That's really good and a great thing to do is to show your work like taking that picture is, is so helpful for people we live in a multimedia age, and you should be able to share that stuff in an easy way. I don't care if you, I don't care if you work on Excel spreadsheets, take a screenshot and send it to your client and just let them know you're working on something or found something interesting. That's that makes a huge difference so care providers a great one.
I think this would freak people out but Amanda Imagine if we put share buttons in our project extranet. I would love it and I are. That's a great that's a radical idea. People would lose their minds, like, you're gonna let the client, put this on, like, you'd have like a giant committee immediately giving input, like, everything would go off the rails, but but
it is to give enough that one or the other is loyalty to drivers, by the way, is raising anticipation. So yes, oh shoot. See ya. Raising anticipation. Number one, yeah.
I want to hear about all of those. Do we have time, okay everything. Tell me everything. Okay,
no raising anticipation is a really easy one. Okay. And one of the things that we don't do enough of, especially in the b2b world is raise anticipation, we get a client we say hey, we're so we do a strategy session maybe if it's lead design, we're so excited about it. We squirrel away for three weeks or two weeks or whatever we set up a design review meeting and then we present our findings and our amazing new website right. In that time, if you don't think the client and their team has doubts. If you don't think they're like wondering what's going on if they're even working on the project. If you don't think they have questions that they wish you could answer or give them some insight into you're sorely mistaken. And one of the best things you can do when it comes to emotion, like, like, like Lynn said is raise anticipation for that meeting, so lots of little breadcrumbs, where you can say, Oh my gosh, I have to blur this out because the design team is really not doesn't like sharing, you know, like designs before they're done, but this design is awesome. I can't wait to show it, show it to you in five days that stuff increases their enthusiasm for the experience and makes the design, even if it's a bad design makes them more excited for the design, that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah, it does. Okay, which I guess we better deliver on it though right you increase it. So Lear who's on this call happens to be like. She does recruiting anticipation in Lynn's world might be to let people know that they're that she's this far into the process she's vetting these different resumes she's talking to this many people, most of which she may be as a qualified.
Yes, it could even be as simple as, Oh my gosh, you know, I thought a great candidate today. I've reached out and I'm like I can't wait to hear back, I'll let you know when when I hear back, what you're trying to do is really get them to realize that number one you're working on it but number two you have, you know, the next moment, that they're waiting for right. You need to know the next moment of commitment like if the moment of commitment is to interview that person, you need to get them excited about the prospect of interviewing someone. So, constantly be working towards the next big moment of commitment where they're gonna have to trade some money or some data or some time and raise anticipation for that moment, and you'll be better off, I can show you how the mental process to have your if you want to see
it please Yes, yes. Okay. Okay,
here's, here's how this is, I call this the consumer momentum curve. Okay. So, basically this is like this is like your enthusiasm, okay, right here from zero to 100 zeros like you forgot what you ate yesterday, you know for lunch, and 100 is, I can't believe this is the most amazing thing. Best thing I've ever had. This is amazing. Okay, this is time for like the first moment of commitment to infinity, let's just call it that. Okay, Now every every single moment of commitment you make, I'm going to give you a 50, you start at a 50, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you as the brand and of me as the consumer. So, as soon as I buy something you've already got 50 points. Now most most brands most companies, especially in the b2b world, your enthusiasm starts waning pretty quickly right sure does.
Now, what you're trying to do is you want the curve to look like this. Okay. And, hypothetically you don't ever want to get this low, but basically if you think of this as one series of loops just a few of our of our slinky loops right, you, you want to raise anticipation and that's this, and you can think of it, if you if you ordered something from Amazon and you know as soon as you hit commit and you buy that thing you're 50, and then they say, hey, we've processed your order like yeah and you go up to like a 55 or 60 because you're like yeah, the process my order, and then they send you the tracking number right these are all little loads of commitment you're leaving those links that's a look. So, you click the tracking number, and then you find out Oh no, they just printed it it's not actually on the van, and you go back down right. So you want to raise anticipation, then you want to maximize the honeymoon period and if it was Lin, you want to raise anticipation, so that when that interview happens, they're more excited about it than ever before. If you don't do anything, but let's say you just can maintain a 50, when that interview happened is that they're at a 50 for that candidate. They're not that excited, you got to get them more excited, then you can maximize their honeymoon phase. Oh, I'll just put a honeymoon like that. But then you need to re inspire them. And these are actually all drivers. All right, what you're trying to avoid. Is this this is you know, this is like the no go zone. This is, this is basically what I call relegation. And this means that you're like you're so far out of my mind and I forgotten about you that I'm not interested. And, you know, that I've probably forgotten your name. So you want to basically focus on these, these this the six drivers the reinspire. Okay. Raise anticipation, maximize honeymoon phase. Those three are really good to make a huge impact, just for one loop so like in that meeting, just maintain the enthusiasm and after the meeting, you've got to remind them about how excited they were before they went into that meeting because that's when they're at the peak of their enthusiasm.
So what's next.
No, I love it, I would I could do this all day, I'm learning I'm taking lots of notes. Yeah, what was happening. So was that three or four.
Let me go back to that picture here, we did, I'll draw them on here just so you can see where I picture them in my okay robbery. This is raise anticipation, all right right here okay some more colored markers, raise anticipation after every moment of commitment. All right, then you want to maximize their honeymoon phase. Okay. And this is a great time to ask like you want to add one of the biggest misconceptions about getting a testimonial or a review or, you know, from a client or a customer is that people just ask for it when the product is delivered or the service has been rendered. You want to think about when are they at that peak of enthusiasm. That's how you maximize the honeymoon phase. Yeah, so let's say you give the people a web design, there or you you do an interview with a client with a prospect for a candidate, they love the candidate, the way it goes while they eventually hire the candidate, you don't want to like ask for the you know the the testimonial right away, you may want to wait 334 weeks until that that candidate makes a huge sale, and you want the candidate to tell you when they knocked it out of the park. That's when you email them and say, Hey, I heard that Jennifer knocked it out of the park, huge sale, would you mind writing as well because that's what they're going to be at the peak of enthusiasm right and this is, this one is reinspire. Okay. That means you got to send them on that journey again you got to inspire them to either tell somebody else about you. You got to inspire them to feel the way they felt before they went in that meeting, you gotta have a new moment of inspiration, get a new question launched instead right so sends them on the next step of the journey. That's when you need this, and this is, this is great for marketers, this is where you need to answer the trigger question right. And this week actually my loyalty live video on on Thursday this week, that is actually about the trigger question, and the trigger question here let me. I'm going to zoom in and I'm mo eyes for a second. All right, so this is an lol I go back. This is a moment of inspiration. Okay. Now, every moment of inspiration, there are two small psychological things that happen every time a moment of inspiration occurs. Okay. The first one is a trigger question pops into their mind. So, earlier when I said, maybe Bob was thinking about brand scaping. All right, because the trigger question in the back of his mind he's like hey I wonder a brand scabies any good. Or, I say, hey, I want to go call brands gay. He's like, Oh, I want to check out bronski. That's this moment of inspiration he's going on a journey you never expected this trigger question it might be. I wonder if it's any good. That's perfectly good question. Okay, then he's going to the next thing that's going to happen, is a prime brand is going to pop into his head. The Prime brand is the first brand that pops in your head when that question occurs. So when I say hey is Andrews brands gaming look any good where would you find that out any, where would you go,
So that's your prime brand right I
hate to say. Perfect.
No don't hate to say it, this is exactly how it works. It is the. It is the prime ran these two things are unbelievably powerful, and if you can understand the trigger question for any moment of commitment and then answer that trigger question for your clients before they realize they need to ask for it or your customers, or your prospects, you will kill it in the marketplace because a lot of people spend a huge amount of time, and marketing and content energy, answering client and prospect questions, but they're way too far down the path of buying to actually understand or answer the moment of inspiration trigger questions, and that might be the biggest opportunity in the marketing world today is to truly understand people's loans and inspiration and answer their trigger questions not the questions that are so far down the path that they've already chosen, or thought about somebody else. So
I think about that, no no that's helpful. Yeah, I feel like I got a, I got a question earlier today it's like what to do with a thank you pages, and the answer was something like, you know, make them great to keep giving the person more value so that they don't go back to the source where they were a spinner to go which is probably google.com, if you can keep your visitor from starting at Google, you avoid the red ocean of having them be in a place you know being in a context where they see 500 different options, and when they visit your website they know there were there were hundreds of other options that they can see with the Back button, right, all of our websites 100% websites have a back button. Therefore, if you could short circuit that process that that process of having the person first jump into the red ocean and start searching from there. You can keep them from being like, you know, citing. Yeah, I know who to call, I'm not going to start at Google, because I don't really want to have to deal with that anyway. So, word of mouth and, you know, whatever you can like if you know what that if you can intercept them during that that trigger question you can maybe keep them from. You can keep yourself from having to compete in the most difficult, challenging competitive I mean, I'm an SEO. I certainly respect the power of driving demand from Google, but it's not ideal for us really right. It's hyper competitive that only 10s of millions of pages were relevant to anything you search for.
Exactly. Yeah. So, look. The truth is a trigger question can help with the search problem, but it's best used to better understand where to find other relationships that will help you get there faster. So, like an easy way to think about this is, if, if somebody finds out they're, they're pregnant, right, that is a moment of inspiration you're going on a journey you never expected. You planned it right now you didn't expect this journey. Okay. All of a sudden it's like an amazing thing. And there are a million things you're going to have to do. So that is a moment of inspiration and you probably have 50 trigger questions. But, you know, buy a new safer cars probably somewhere on the list there, but it's not the top of the list or moving into a bigger house that maybe that's on the list but it's not the immediate thing. But the best moments of inspiration happen way before they thought of you something else has gone wrong. And if you can either find someone who's helping with that other problem and build a relationship with them so that when they say, you know, after you've bought a house, you just close on this I'm so excited for you. I noticed you're driving a really unsafe 1983 Toyota tercel, maybe you want a new car, I have the perfect person for you, you just helped create a moment of inspiration, answer a trigger question and become the prime brand so that that'll help a lot. Um, I don't know I'm rambling about that. No, no,
I want to ask about something else before we run out of time.
Yeah. Oh sure, sorry.
The time is going so fast. Look at that. b2b versus b2c. Is there a meaningful difference.
Oh, is there yes there is a meaningful difference there are a lot more decision makers in the b2b process but every one of those people are people that have moments of inspiration. They have trigger questions they need to answer they have a prime brand they already have in their mind, and they probably got a lot of opportunity for better moments of commitment. So I think if you treat every individual as a b2b brand as a person and build a real loyalty loop relationship with them, it starts to seem less and less different to him in my world. Yeah,
I get that, that question a lot, and one of the common answers and I'm the millionth person to say it is that more important than the difference between b2b and b2c is the difference between high consideration and low consideration decisions. So, if there's a million decision makers, you know, that pregnant person might have a, you know, multiple decision makers and like where to live school districts like the house like all the you know there's high consideration decisions in b2c. There's a lot of considerations in b2b. But I like that and I've seen you, I've seen you put out great content on that. We are getting some, some people have asked or our friend Chuck Kent has asked about your setup. This is a marketing. Yeah, Chuck's Chuck's a kick ass video guy himself. What are you using for the teaching. Yeah. Tell us about your rig.
that'll work here we go, here we go. That gonna work. Okay,
oh yeah members on your mic boom.
Well this GoPro is on the mic boom of hard to see. I can see, I have, I have a little switch here this is my little switcher. So this is how I changed like the dot camera, the you know that's the GoPro, here's my main camera. That's when I'm at my desk I do some stuff at my desk Hi. So, yeah, so that, and this, this is basically connected to a big PC outside of that one. That, that is running vMix that's that up there, so you can play stuff like this is like a Hey, want to sign up for my loyalty loop video, I see. Yeah, that's like that was,
yeah. Yeah, so the switcher, the switcher switches to your screen.
Yeah, yeah, exactly that switches to the, to the screen so I can see what you're saying, hopefully. Yeah. And then I have another little switcher down here, that, that one is actually being controlled by the stream deck but this one, allows me to put a bunch of inputs in all the cameras and just have one in my computer. So that's, that's pretty much it. Wow.
Yeah, that's a serious production, do you get the question a lot.
I get it all the time. I mean I do a lot of, like I have when I'm doing like a live events, I have all sorts of like things programmed in like hey are you guys killing it on tape a killer on Tick Tock like that kind of stuff. And so people very quickly ask me what's going on and I also do a lightboard like where I draw on a piece of plexiglass I've seen it as awesome. Yeah. Oh thanks yeah I get a lot of, I get a lot of questions about it so I'm not. And I actually do have a video. I can send it to whoever I'll send it to me if people email you, but I do have a video about how to how to you know do this,
Amanda will send a follow up anything that you put in there including the call to action to subscribe to the loyalty loop which you dropped a minute ago.
Okay, yeah, if
you subscribe, and you can lose the secret code why. I can send you the stuff that we talked about today I can send you the six loyalty loop drivers to say you have.
Awesome. Staying with production just for a second. Those videos are insane, you are at 10 X the typical like definitely what I'm doing.
How much time does it take. I just mapped it out. It takes about. It takes about six and a half hours to like write and shoot it. And then about, I have an editor I work with a guy named Sean who's awesome Sean theory is in, we've been working together for about two years and he's been fantastic and we know we have like our own lingo, so he does the adding say goodness. Although, although that's actually my favorite part. He totally honest so I kind of miss doing the thing, but that so that's off my plate, but it takes about, it's about five or six or seven hours and then when it comes back to me, I've been uploading them and doing all the writing and stuff for YouTube and that takes about another three hours, so it's like nine hours like a full day of work, every week. Well, whoever
has not yet, and I think I missed the link can you share that link again just so I can grab it, we'll say that what was that loyalty loopers.com. That's it. Loyalty loopers.com.
I actually just got an email that I was getting a few three error. So I gotta look into that. After this, but I'll fix it and the managing 75
to three, no idea what that means.
I don't even know if I'm gonna look it up. You know what, I had a moment of inspiration when I came in question was, what the hell's a fire trigger question,
right, and then
Google and I'm sure all blog posts
will be Yeah, download something
every three hours trying to fix it. Yeah,
yeah it's money. Money data and time you need to fix that one. Oh, yeah. So, if any. So another way to get to get Drew's content, if you're not on it yet his LinkedIn he crushes it on LinkedIn, and just YouTube, just just dig in just go deep, there's a lot of, there's a lot of content there. What's your frequency is this.
Yeah, these are. Yeah. I feel like I was there five to to
average, the average has told me it's an error that I got the number wrong.
We will make sure I will keep sending the email that has the call to action don't use content for whenever that five to two comes, you know, is no longer.
Not a good experience right, like you're just about to commit email address.
I'm not sure you're exposing an internal process. this is transmitted. This is transparency. Yeah.
Robbery right now there's anyone who's watching who knows what an aerify two three is and consult on this just shoot me an email.
sorry, conferences, events, they will come back in the interim how your pivot is one of the most interesting, and Jay Baer ones I was on a call with Jay, and he's like no I can't, I'm not even gonna try like I can't go there, I know Drew's making a custom television show, for every one of his events and I can't do that. Jay Jay was like I'm going to my kids hockey game. I'm gonna do, I'm just gonna take the year off, and I'm gonna watch my kids play hockey, while drew crushes. He's a great guy. We love j
short, this is virtual events are very good.
Yeah, well, Jimmy the point once in that same conversation Jason that there's one way at least, in which virtual events exceed the quality of live events and that is in the QA is zero barrier to dropping a question into a column into a chat, compared to a live events when you have to raise your hand and it's super awkward someone tries to bring you a microphone and you gotta wait. What is your take on COVID era events since you're pro speaker. How, what's your perception of, you know, the future of events will it be pure hybrid or light or virtual events are they meeting expectations.
number one like virtual events are, like, yeah, for me, a virtual event is like, it's actually just a one to one experience it's like it's like you and me are gonna spend 45 minutes together and we're just having a nice chat and we're gonna go on adventures together. That's how I treat it and Jay is absolutely right like that, like q&a is so much more organized the barrier to asking a question and and asked answering a high volume of questions is so wonderful so yeah it's a huge improvement. Like what is the future look like, I can tell you that we've got lots and lots of requests for speaking in the fall, and so like I think the Fall is going to be nuts in person right, I've got, it's just all the events that that like postponed from last April to this April has now postponed their in person events like November, and then we're getting lots of more inquiries for the fall so I think in person events are coming back. Here's the caveats. They're doing lots of hybrid, a lot of them are expecting only about half of the attendees that they would normally expect to be there in person, and they're providing a hybrid experience. So I might just talk to an event organizer who's like, providing a hybrid experience but not just like a webcast of the live events, but they're doing really cool like extra stuff for the people at home that is one to one, which I think is really really innovative and so you can tell there's like it's gonna be there's a live event you can attend but there's also going to be an online event that doesn't make you feel left out, which is what the hybrid events I think in the past have felt like. And, you know, there are lots of from a from a virtual event standpoint I think the simpler the events that I've attended to have, have you know kind of been the better they've been. Which is ironic because I think a lot of people spend a lot of time and money and energy on really high end technology that was like a, you know, kind of backlash so. But yeah, I'm excited about. I'm excited about seeing people again because I'm an extrovert and I missed that. But, like in person. But I haven't really enjoyed
your email signup for years was always like, headed to get it you know on my way to conduct the Omaha,
Nebraska. Yeah. Yeah. Now just says like firing up the zoom camera.
Yeah, for virtual Yeah exactly.
Very for virtual event today. Yeah, it's not as fun.
Yeah, I've always liked how you do that. So, so you just log into your inbox provider whatever and just update your signature like all the time.
I used to do it every morning, but now I've been doing it about two times a week. I think that, you know, the email signature is like a most underutilized piece of marketing in the world.
I agree, I agree I got an email. I included some tips about that in a presentation about social media because I think it's social. The social channel. Yeah, and you're, you know, the links and everything that you send that's like your personal brand like 100 times a day. I added campaign tracking code to the email link in my signature, and it's like 300 visits a year. And like this and like 20 leads generated yeah like people convert from that. Yep. I've got the analytics to prove it people clicking on that there's no other way to get to that, that link has
to help me with Google Tag Manager because I still need to figure it out.
She's muted, the person you need to ask is right there. I got oh
man are you really are you tomorrow. Okay.
Okay. I'm putting him into cell phone into the chat you can text her your GTM questions.
Nicolas are using.
Nicolas is acid. We're using clubhouse. I am not using clubhouse because I am banned from clubhouse as an Android user. They don't have an app for me. Yeah,
And really I need like I needed another social network but probably I should have gotten like 11 invites and people keep talking about it.
Yeah. I mean I'm on there listening, but I have a, I haven't like raised my hand or so much time in any session. So, Yeah, that's that's the answer, Nikolas. I do wish I had more time to spend there because it's it for me it's not like, here's the one thing I have identified with this class. It's not like other social platforms, where you can you can dip your toe in and dip your toe out, you know, and you can kind of get your poles or see what somebody is doing and then leave. You know, it's like you really got to commit some time to like embrace a conversation or listen to a panel or, you know, so it's a very different medium I'm gonna have to like make an appointment with clubhouse, to really get inside. But
I love that you are all in on YouTube. Are you getting traction
traction there but honestly LinkedIn is from a business perspective, is the highest return for me. And I, I'm distributing on YouTube, mostly because I enjoy YouTube. So like if this was a it was a pure business decision, I would tell me to stop wasting my time uploading stuff to YouTube and just focus on LinkedIn, but because I also enjoy doing this, I enjoy putting them up on YouTube and I do have, I have a very different kind of interaction with people on YouTube so it's a very different environment, but for a business perspective LinkedIn has been really successful for us.
Yeah, if I had to choose just like one or two I choose LinkedIn and YouTube as a marketer, as an active online networker oh really yeah as a content promoter, no doubt. Yeah.
How's that LinkedIn, I mean has YouTube been successful for you from a b2b standpoint. Do you feel like accessibility is so easy.
Well, no, no. Our Youtube strategy is we're sort of cheating because we have. If I could find it. We wrote a post about this which I'll share. So we have articles that get traction and if you put a video at the top of an article that's already getting traction. Oh it's ranking, then you'd have like a natural advantage. So,
the question of, like, dude, does adding a video improve of pages ranking, no evidence I found no evidence of that. But you can easily launch a YouTube channel faster by embedding those videos onto, onto pages that are already getting traffic. So just look at your pages that are already getting performance, ask yourself, can I make a video version of that piece of content. If you record it, put it on YouTube. Put it on YouTube embed it into the article. And you'll just get like page views, or video views immediately. That's fascinating. Yeah, if you wanted another day. I owe you one for this so if you ever want to have a conversation about, you know, YouTube slash SEO slash content strategy, it's a fun one.
Well, next time I hope you and Amanda and I are having one person with everybody else's here.
Well last time I saw no I missed you. You and I were both presenting at an event in Napa, And I was like yes
we we passed in the night. We saw my wife, we saw Elizabeth. I did,
I was wandering through a vineyard. With a three year old boy, and your wife walked up to me, like, let's admit what, but I knew you're inside you're presenting at the time, but yeah almost met at Napa. So,
but then we see each other after that at Disney, remember well yeah
we did. Yeah, we did.
Yeah, that was in January. That was so much fun. It was Andrea, Andy and Ander.
Yeah, and we're having a nice meal and you said yeah, a kid got eaten by an alligator right there. I was like why. It's like a. It's like a ill fated lagoon we wait next to you and you happen to have
time. Oh, my goodness you guys and Amanda so good to see you. everybody else.
I hope that everyone like at least takes a look at the loyalty loop videos. What drew is doing there is both like it's an A plus in style and substance in the, in the messaging and in the production, it's a it's a case study in what TEDx content looks like today. And, and I think that many many more people should know about the talent and insights coming out of journalists today. So thank you all for joining us. Thank you and good attendance tonight I'm glad that we all were able to be here. Sorry I didn't jump in a little earlier, I wanted to like show some photos of like when we first met and like little like take Memory Lane, but we'll do it again next time,
we'll do it again, for sure anytime thank you guys Bye everybody.
See you all next time. Bye Bye. Have a great night.