We believe in functional mental wellness, a holistic approach to mental health. We know that there's hope for those of us who have experienced trauma, even profound trauma and that's why we created the universe is your therapist podcast, we believe whether you call it God, the universe, source, unity or love that there is something much greater than us that conspires for our good, we envision a world of healing and connection, and we teach you simple but powerful practices that integrate your mind, body and spirit so that you can come home to your highest self and your truest identity. You are not broken, you are loved, and you can heal. My name is Amy Hoyt, and together with my sister, Lena, we will take you on a journey of healing and self discovery. So it could be something like a sober January or it can be I'm not gonna drink for a week. Hi, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today we are excited to talk about being sober curious, and we had such a great response from our episode on overdrinking that we want to dive into what sober curious is and how you can use this as a tool of awareness. So Lena, do you want to start us off with telling us a little bit about the sober curious movement? Sure.
The term was coined by Ruby Warrington in her book sober curious, as published in 2018. And in it, she talks about the benefits of being curious about your patterns of alcohol use. And that you can determine how you use alcohol socially, and see if it's benefiting you or if it's not being benefiting you. But the thing I love about it is the curiosity part. And the idea that when we are engaged in certain behaviors, we can be curious about their impact on us without having to shame ourselves or engage in all or nothing or black and white thinking.
Great. I agree. I think there's, you know, obviously I am in recovery. And I've been really open about that. And so we have people who have never had alcohol, we have people who have full blown addiction, and may or may not be in recovery. And then there's this whole gap in between. And we address that with overdrinking in our episode. But this is even a little bit different than than over drinking, because there's no, we don't know, if we're over drinking, when we're getting sober, curious, we're just checking it out. We're just tracking and seeing if there's anything we want to adjust. And one thing I'm really aware of is that over the last two years, a lot of the people in my social circle, have been drinking a little more than they're comfortable with. And I wouldn't necessarily classify them as alcoholic. But in private conversations, there's a theme that I've been seeing of you know, I'm drinking a little bit more than I used to. And so we kind of want to break down the difference between alcohol addiction, alcohol dependence, and this kind of sober curious,
right? We are looking at the idea that our alcohol use can be on a spectrum or continuum. And so we can have days times months years when our alcohol use is less frequent. We can have days times months, years where it's more frequent. And the curiosity about how you're using alcohol gives you an opportunity to use information, accurate information and make a decision from there and the decision is yours. Nobody's requiring you to reduce your alcohol, you're just being curious about how you're using it.
So what is the definition of someone who's addicted to alcohol?
The addiction is along the lines of the alcohol dependence and it comes with a lot of side effects and symptoms. When we're looking at the DSM five there's a list of symptoms for any kind of substance use addiction. The other thing that really is problematic with alcohol addiction is that the withdrawals are actually life threatening. And so if you Have an alcohol addiction. If you're drinking copious amounts every day, if you're using it when you get up, if you are never going without alcohol for eight to 10 hours, then that's a more serious issue that needs to be discussed with a primary care physician or an alcohol or drug addiction counselor to make sure that anything you decide to do as far as ceasing the use of alcohol, does that bring about any kind of those horrible withdrawal symptoms that could kill you?
Okay, thank you. And I always tell people to check out the 12 step program, alcoholics anonymous online and answer the questions and see for themselves if they feel like you know, they want to check out Alcoholics Anonymous, which is for addicts, right. So we talked about addiction, and are you saying dependence on alcohol is part of addiction? Yes. Okay, so between alcohol addiction or dependence, and the sober curious movement, I think there's something in between that right
out, there's a alcohol abuse.
Okay, let's define alcohol abuse for our listeners and talk about how we would know between abuse and addiction. Okay.
The, the idea behind alcohol abuse is that it is used excessively. It is used as a way of coping, to avoid certain emotions. It is used as a social crutch more often than not, it is used to escape intolerable situations or intolerable memories, that kind of thing. And it is drink it's overdrinking, it's consuming an excess amount of alcohol. And the body actually is harmed by excess alcohol aside from the idea that we can have a hangover, the body and the brain when we have excess alcohol, and we are consistently consuming a lot of alcohol, it starts to affect your body and your brain. And when we are not taking a look at why we're using or drinking as much as we are, then we don't have a chance to evaluate whether or not it's working for us.
And I think that's such a great point that when we are not being curious about it, when we're not aware, we can't really understand the effects that it's having. I'm also aware that Dr. Ayman Dr. Daniel Amon, he has talked about even one glass of alcohol causes brain damage, which is a very bold statement. And yet, you know, he has the most experience with actually scanning brains and high resolution brain imagery in terms of his facility. And so his research is really solid that even one drink of alcohol can affect brain health.
That is absolutely true. And there, it's a little bit of a controversial statement. We've spent decades hearing that one glass of wine a day can be beneficial. But when we were preparing to do this podcast, I was brushing up on some of this and a lot a lot of the articles that I was reading said there's no absolutely no benefit to humans in drinking alcohol. There's not one benefit.
Wow. So the latest research shows that it's actually just completely harmful. Right. And that is a very controversial position. Because it I think, for one, it's so socially acceptable and fun. Let's be real, it's enjoyable. It's similar to the sugar movement. You know, when the research came out about the mice preferring sugar to cocaine in the lab, it's very disturbing to those of us who enjoy I mean, for me, it's sugar, you know, but back in the day when I was drinking, that would be very disturbing to hear that even one glass is harmful.
Right. And I don't know that the research is showing that it's harmful, but there's certainly not a benefit. It has absolutely no benefit to any consumption of alcohol.
So according to Dr. Ayman And it shows that it is actually harmful to your right. So, but I think one of the things we are we feel very strongly about as a company, and certainly on this podcast is really taking that judgment out of the way that we're behaving so that we can use our behavior to inform where we want to go next.
Yes, yes, indeed, it's the only way to use a true agent of process. Because if I'm taking a look at my behavior and judging it, then I'm actually in my autonomic nervous system fight flight. And I don't have a way of accurately assessing and making a choice for myself. Instead, I'm driven by either judgment, or I'm driven by resistance to the idea that there's something to take a look at here.
That's a great point. So I'm wondering how, how do you see this kind of our philosophy of becoming aware and being what we call benevolently curious, we're, we're curious, and we're loving about it. We're just checking things out. How do you see that fitting with what we the crux of this podcast? Now the main point of it, of sober being sober, curious,
I think our philosophy and the direction we're going as a company is right in line with this. And the brain naturally is resistant to change. It just is. And so when we can be curious about a behavior, then we like you said, we can be informed when we are informed, then we can make more educated decisions. And the one of the things I love about the sober, curious movement is that it is not all or nothing, it's not black and white. And so there's something for everyone. In fact, I was thinking, it should for me sober, curious. Should be ice cream, curious. Right? Well, I
mean, that begs the question, how can we use this movement in other areas where we're numbing out? Right? porn, curious, sex curious? over exercising? Curious? gambling? Curious? Yeah. Gambling, curious. There's so many behaviors as humans that we use to numb out so we don't have to feel? And how can this be a prototype really, for checking out if our behaviors are actually serving us?
I think it's a great idea, I think expanding this idea and generalizing this, excuse me, generalizing that gives us a chance to take a look without judgment, to notice without any kind of criticism or harshness towards ourselves. And being curious, being benevolently curious is about learning how to pay attention without being horribly mean to yourself.
Yes, yes. So let's say I'm not in recovery. And let's say I actually have moderation in my life with alcohol. And I just am listening to this podcast. And I'm like, you know, that's interesting. Maybe I'll check out being sober curious, what would be my first step,
your first step would be to just be reflective on recent patterns of drinking.
Okay, so am I drinking more than I used to, let's say, two years ago.
Okay. Right.
I just feel like the pandemic has really been a catalyst for people to shift behaviors in sometimes not ways that are adaptive. And so if we go back pre pandemic, I think that might give us some good information.
That's a good idea.
So am I drinking more than I used to? The other thing I'm aware of which I love with sober curiosity, is it doesn't have to be for a extended period of time. No. And you're not saying I'm never drinking again. You're not even saying I'm not drinking? You're saying I'm going to check this out. So I'm looking at my consumption. And how do I track it? What's the best way to track my consumption?
One of the things that was discussed in some of the papers that I was reading is, has your socializing changed is your socializing more predominantly now around social drinking and less about non drinking act? with ease. I thought that was really interesting to take a look at
interesting and difficult given the fact that in most parts of the world, our our social lives have completely shifted. Absolutely. And so I guess, maybe a helpful sub question of that would be, given that my social life has shifted? How has my drinking changed in response to those shifts?
That's an excellent question. And that that question doesn't contain any negativity or judgment or criticism. There's nothing implied there.
Okay, so I'm tracking it, you're paying attention, you're paying attention. I know, there's some apps that track it. I don't remember the name of them. But I have some habit tracker apps that I can put in different activities and behaviors and, and mark when I'm doing them. And so I think the one I love is maybe a $5 fee to use the app. But there's plenty of free one. So you could track it digitally, you could just jot down over time. And then, how long do they suggest that you kind of do this, the
amount of time is totally up to you. And that's another thing that's really good for the brain that resist, resist change. So you could say, I'm going to track my alcohol consumption for two weeks, I'm going to track it for five days, I'm going to track it for a month. The other thing that's really beneficial about being sober curious is that one thing you can do, so that you can have a more concrete example of how the alcohol may be affecting you is you can choose to not drink for a period of time. And that period of time can be of your own choosing. So it could be something like a sober January, or it can be I'm not going to drink for a week, I have one client who stopped drinking socially, when she started experiencing health problems. And she has been able to instead of fighting herself over the alcohol, she's been able to say it's not always going to be this way. I'm taking a break right now. I'm focusing on my health, and I want to do everything I can to give my health or my body a chance to be more healthy.
I think that's great. And I'm aware that there are a lot of health benefits of abstaining from alcohol. So we know it helps our liver and other filtering organs not work as hard. I believe it reduces inflammation. Obviously, you know, we make better decisions when we're not under the influence, we just make better decisions. Right. And, you know, other there are many other health benefits that I know, the sober, curious movement kind of comes out of that view of this is for health, and wellness. And I think that's another way of taking the judgment out of it, that I want to give my body and brain the best chance. And so I'm not going to drink this weekend and see how it goes. Or today. Yep. Or this month. Yep. So
whatever the period of time is, for you. Some of the health benefits of not drinking or abstaining for a period of time are that there is typically less depression and anxiety. Now you may if you have anxiety, you may not notice that initially that there's a reduction, because you may be feeling anxious about not drinking. And so that can be interesting to kind of parse through and be aware of it also can help improve symptoms of depression when we abstain. It really helps sleep. So when we don't use alcohol, we tend to get much more quality sleep or excuse me, I shouldn't say more we tend our sleep tends to be of better quality when we don't use alcohol.
And I know that initially giving up alcohol, you can have a lot of restless sleep and a lot of sweating and some other symptoms that, you know maybe you're on the border of dependence, but you're not fully dependent. Maybe you're right in that abuse category, alcohol abuse category. So you might have some night sweats that are not fatal. I mean, we're not talking fatal. detox symptoms, but we're talking about detoxing. Tim's initially,
right. And I think about detoxing from sugar, or Diet Coke. And that is those are also accompanied by by some physical symptoms of detoxing,
right. And so when we actually take the time to abstain from alcohol or sugar, or whatever it is, that's when we notice our body's reaction. And that kind of gives us more information. Like, oh, I'm maybe I'm a little more dependent on this than I realized because I'm having night sweats. And this is a little bit harder than I realized.
Could be that's a great way to approach it. Again, no judgment, no criticism. Just be curious. And take a look at it.
Perfect. Okay. Well, thank you so much. And thank you for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you want to go deeper on this subject or any other subjects we've covered in the podcast. We are so excited to be launching our signature membership program at mending trauma.com This is a trauma informed mental health membership where we combine clinically effective practices courses and mentoring while putting you in the driver's seat. We teach you how to heal your trauma with the latest research combining mind body and spirit we want to walk you through a healing journey while also empowering you. If you have felt this episode is helpful. We would absolutely love if you would go to Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your pods and give us a review. We'd also love it if you would share it with someone you think it might help tag us on social media at mending trauma.com Or at Amy Hoyt PhD, we would love to reshare and also if there's anything we can do to help we would love to hear from you email info at mending trauma.com Give us your suggestions or topics you want to hear about. We would absolutely love to be of more service to you. We're so excited because we have so many good episodes coming up in season two, and we can't wait to go on this journey with you
