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2023-02-24 - Canoas Vision Circle E4 | Otter.ai

2023-02-24 - Canoas Vision Circle E4

Edwin Rutsch1h 55min

Edwin Rutsch

00:00

Okay. Okay, welcome everybody. This is our empathy circle number four for the empathy community on and our topic is, what is your vision for an empathy based retreat center, 1964, Alaska, novice road and Santa Barbara. That's the property that my brother has purchased. It was an old seminary, Catholic seminary. And we want to turn it into a retreat center. And we're setting up a nonprofit organization in the empathy center to run it. And so we want to create a center there for sort of an empathy based center. What we're doing here is we're holding an empathy circle to brainstorm ideas about what our vision is, for that center, or just any kind of ideas can be as wild as, as crazy as possible just for creativity and sort of inspiration so and then we also have a Google Doc, where you can take any notes. And so we're gonna go for maybe an hour and 15 minutes or so. And then we'll take a little time for writing and then just open it for discussion without empathic reflection. Sally, do you have a video? It'd be good to be able to see you. Yeah, I think you're on a cell phone. Okay, so we're gonna do four minute turns. Our topic question is What is your vision for an amputee based Retreat Center in Santa Barbara, Alaska, Novus Road, Santa Barbara, and I think we're ready to just jump in. Everyone here is familiar familiar with the empathy circle practice. They're all we're all well versed in it and let the ideas fly, though, who'd like to be the first speaker and select your listeners? Since everyone's familiar, we don't need four minutes. One minute turns, right.

Unknown Speaker

02:14

And here's the camera.

Edwin Rutsch

02:16

Yeah, great. Go ahead. Kathy is the timer who's would like to go first and select your listener?

Speaker 1

02:30

I think first, honestly, like, have my ideas fresh on my mind. thing that I grew up in Santa Barbara,

Edwin Rutsch

02:41

who are you speaking to? Oh, Edwin. Okay. All right, you're gonna go first, and you grew up in Santa Barbara, I'm hearing.

Speaker 1

02:50

Yeah, I lived there from ages three to the age of 18, or 19. And so the kinds of things that really were exciting to me was the art show on the beach. But it always extends to the mission now. But why not extended from the mission into casinos? Because there's a tremendous amount of room. And then, you know, you charge for each space. And that could be an excellent fundraiser. And then the people selling their arts and crafts. And then they also have, you know, no colons and stuff like that. Okay, so that's when I give,

Edwin Rutsch

03:46

okay, let me reflect that back. So I'm hearing that you grew up in Santa Barbara. So from a young age until about 19, you were actually living there in the you see that they have an art art on the beach event, and that they also have taken it into, I guess, to the mission, and then maybe even your idea is to extend it to kenosis and have spaces there the artists can host put their art and have snow cones and stuff.

Speaker 1

04:18

Right and then there's the music academy of the West, which is a little bit you know, it's monastery relish, but not too far away from like de Burgh refuge is pretty close to you. And I hope they did they have a place to perform. At least that wasn't growing up. You just were in this squashed little room. Remember that search for and do have like, I'm just gonna stop right there for you.

Edwin Rutsch

05:00

Yeah, so there's some music, orchestra and Montecito. And they didn't have very good place there. So you thought maybe they could do it up on keynote with?

Speaker 1

05:12

Yeah, actually, the music academy of the West is world renowned as a it's a university for music.

Edwin Rutsch

05:24

So it's an actually, it's a school for musicians, and it's well known worldwide.

Speaker 1

05:31

Yeah. And so, actually, if there was like a church where there was a high ceiling type of a scenario, it would have a beautiful of that.

Edwin Rutsch

05:46

So using the chapel for the church is a music place would just be really nice for the acoustics, like for the acoustics you think would be really good?

Speaker 1

05:57

Right? Exactly. That's what they don't have their music academy for the West.

Edwin Rutsch

06:03

areas, they don't have that there.

Speaker 1

06:06

And then there's all kinds it like the first week in August is the Fiesta. And there's a build up to the Piazza and afterwards, but there's an influx of people from all over the world. But there could be Fiesta activities was fundraisers type was Fiesta in all their programs. And it too.

Edwin Rutsch

06:36

Yeah, so it's a huge opera possibilities. There's a big Fiesta, and people come from all over. So maybe having some kind of a those events up. But kenosis would be another idea for

Speaker 1

06:53

music, all night music and dancing. You know, just fun things. Well, I think I'm out of time. So thank you.

Edwin Rutsch

07:06

So they have all kinds of festivities, dancing and music and sounds like a really fun creative event. So I'll speak to Karen. Okay. Yeah, doing, you know, bringing in the arts up there, you know, with my partner, Joan, she was thinking of like Open Studios. So a place for artists with Open Studios. So just to bring in the arts is a you know, really excited about that. So all the arts?

Speaker 2

07:38

Yeah, so you've already been exploring that with your partner about bringing the arts into the space, all of the arts possible studios for people to use studio space? Yes,

Edwin Rutsch

07:50

yeah, for the open studio. So you know, the artists kind of show their their art there. And then there's also there's a gym, there's a, you know, big gym there for two basketball courts, but there's a big room in the front of the gym. And it would be a really great place for like an arts artists, studios and workshops, I think, you know, for painting or whatever music clay. So there's so that's Yeah, so I really like that whole art idea.

Speaker 2

08:20

Okay, so the Open Studios, but then there are also some big spaces and one pit space in particular, that would make a great art display area and workshops and dedicated art space.

Edwin Rutsch

08:35

And we want to see how do we tie the arts to empathy, you know, the arts is creativity. And you know, creativity is about a lot about imagination and understanding other people. So we kind of make that connection of how the arts relate to empathy.

Speaker 2

08:53

Yeah, and you're exploring and would like to make that use of the space to explore the connection between empathy and creativity in the arts.

Edwin Rutsch

09:04

And the other thing we're looking at is that the center becomes sort of a hub for different projects. So empathy may be empathy in the arts, empathy in schools, empathy for conflict, mediation or peace building. And so that the book that I'm reading about, you know, setting up a nonprofit, they suggest having these sorts of project areas that then donors can also donate to them. They say, Oh, I really want to support empathy and democracy, and then they can donate to that. So besides just getting income from workshops, there's also income from donors.

Speaker 2

09:46

Okay, and as you've been exploring how to set up a nonprofit, you're looking at that and just having empathy and fill in the blank in the arts and in democracy, etc, and tying it into there For a number of reasons, but the whole operation just because everything running on empathy for them hearing is, is is a good way to see the world go round. And then but it also would help with donors

Edwin Rutsch

10:13

actly. Yeah, you know, some donors want to fund operations, some the basic foundational operations, others who have specific ideas that they want to fund. So, you know, having like a team that does these different projects, then, you know, we try to get someone the team lead to get, you know, a paid position with maybe some volunteers to support it. So yeah.

Speaker 2

10:41

Okay, yeah. And you're acknowledging that different donors, like to donate to different aspects of nonprofit, some like to donate to operations, but otherwise, when I have specific programs have their funds are helping. And so this would, you know, give that variety of opportunities for donors to contribute, and perhaps better have an opportunity to have a paid person overseeing everything and so forth. Yeah.

Edwin Rutsch

11:10

So in some kind of looking at, how do we move, you know, create these projects, you know, get a team lead in there, or a couple leads, and then you know, get funding, and then you know, have to just kind of create that help. So that whole process, okay.

Speaker 2

11:30

Okay, so the concluding reflection? Yeah, so just looking at the whole thing, and, you know, getting a few things in place, how you get a project manager in and how to, you know, kind of evolve or basically grow the organization from the, from the bottom up.

Edwin Rutsch

11:46

Exactly. Yeah. Cool. Very hard. Thank you, Karen.

Kathy Kidd

11:50

You're welcome. This is a beating heart. Okay, so when I do that it is purpose to it.

Unknown Speaker

12:01

Okay, but that is the timing device as well. Yes.

Speaker 2

12:10

Oh, let's see. I'll have Bill, listen to me if he's willing.

Bill Filler

12:15

Sure. Yeah, happy to care. All right. Yeah, part

Speaker 2

12:18

of the reason I volunteered for being part of the visioning circle was one, I'm really grateful for the benefit of being part of the empathy training. And, and thought this was a way to kind of give back and hear more about other ideas and, and just see what comes up in the conversation for me.

Bill Filler

12:38

Yeah, so you're glad to be here. You took the training, and you felt that it was very valuable. And so that this joining these visioning circles will be a way to give back and then also to see what sort of ideas come up? Yeah,

Speaker 2

12:55

so my initial thoughts that I just got in right before the call and the bladder online, were really just connecting with the community, and not too different than what Edwin saying is just like, empathy and everything, you know, an opportunity to open conversations, I was thinking more about social issues and justice issues, and, you know, looking at what do we need to address to move toward an empathetic culture and, and put those topics on the table or just ask the community what they're interested in gathering around? Sure.

Bill Filler

13:32

So you feel that it's important to engage with the community and to listen to them, and to see what they're interested in. And that you, specifically, were interested in more social justice issues, things like that, that was sort of like where your interest lies.

Speaker 2

13:52

Yeah. And then listening to Sally. And the thing to Edwin just kind of opened me up. And I just last night, watched a Netflix program by Brene Brown, that talked about that you really can't have great creativity without vulnerability, and what a better place to learn how to be vulnerable. In, you know, I try to avoid using the word safe, but in a community setting. And that'd be a wonderful experiment. And I just added it to the list online. For people to be in an empathy circle, take a break and go to whatever kind of create, you know if they're a painter or writer or whatever, you know, just to have creative endeavors. Go create something and then come back to an empathy circle it would make for a really wonderful tie in and day at the center.

Bill Filler

14:49

Yeah, and so you're, you watched a Netflix special by Brene Brown where she talked about that you need for creativity, vulnerability fuels, creativity. At. And so you see a natural synergy there between the empathy circle and artistic endeavors. So people could create art or they go to the empathy circle, and back and forth. And those things would actually mutually support each other, the artistic creation and participation in empathy circle.

Speaker 2

15:19

Yeah. And then also acknowledging social entrepreneurs. So the same thing with you know, I'm into creating a culture of peace, which again, probably isn't very different than a culture of empathy, the this the mission of the empathy circles. And, you know, certainly a big part of that is justice. So even for social entrepreneurs looking to change and make things, more inequity in various ways in our society, that also is a creative process. So that's, you know, kind of framing everything. And we need more creativity to solve the world's problems and issues right now might tie in well.

Bill Filler

16:02

So you're also thinking that you would like to see a place that would support social on what you've termed social entrepreneurs, who are you are, you know, a peace building community feel that peace and empathy are closely allied? And that you would, you know, you'd like to see those those sorts of social entrepreneurs, which also includes creativity, participate in empathy circles and be supported there.

Unknown Speaker

16:28

Thank you. I feel very fully heard. Oh, great.

Bill Filler

16:31

My pleasure. All right. All right. beating heart woman. Come on. Took my last boat. Now Now we want to see the full mastication. All right. Okay. Kathy, do you want to wait a little bit? You want to finish your last fight? I'm good. Okay. All right. So, yeah, so my three ideas are, I guess it's an another document that kind of went away from last week. Sure, Edwin has it somewhere in in the bowels of his, his website. So I just kind of quickly wrote them down again, because I can't come up with three new ideas every week, it's really a little bit too much.

Kathy Kidd

17:21

So you have three ideas, you're not sure where they're at. But you wrote them down again? You find it difficult to come up with new ideas every week. So you want to revisit those?

Bill Filler

17:34

Right? Yeah, no. So the first one would be a facilitation training, a shorter version of a two day training, where you would have four sessions, the core four sessions, and then integrate that, as Sally said, with, you know, the nature and getting people out. And the idea is, then every, a lot of the trainings I've taken, they lock you in a windowless room for several days, and anything outside is a distraction. Whereas I feel that outside is another way of listening, and would reinforce the empathy circle training, rather than detract from it.

Kathy Kidd

18:17

So you'd like to see the six week empathy training, condensed to two days. And between segments, or as part of segments, you want to involve the outdoors, and other things you want incorporate a lot of things into it a lot of slip into it, not just to be stuck in a room with four walls. And that's all you can concentrate on.

Bill Filler

18:41

Right? And we could have longer empathy. It's not doesn't have to be but considering at the startup, when you have two days, that limits the logistics problems of providing food and cleaning and housecleaning and things like that. And also, it allows people who don't have a lot of time to get away for a weekend or something. And makes it easy on ramp. I'll stop there.

Kathy Kidd

19:10

Yeah. So you're envisioning something that would be simple, where we wouldn't have to house people or feed people, maybe a weekend. And that accommodates people who might have just a weekend. So you're looking for ways to make it easy on people to come in on the facility. Yeah.

Bill Filler

19:33

And also, I was thinking, you know, weddings, bar mitzvah was conceived yet as at The Chapel, that would be easy. One day, people wouldn't have to stay there necessarily. And that's an easy way to kind of ramp up. You know, get some income going with not a lot of investment.

Kathy Kidd

19:54

So you can see a lot of celebrations or rituals that could use the premises it would just be One day or part of a day. So again, there's not a lot of don't go into it other than just logistics.

Bill Filler

20:06

Yeah. And I certainly like what Sally and both Karen said about, you know, arts. It's a beautiful area, I can see like an open air, like right on that grassy area overlooking the Santa Barbara and the Pacific, you know, people coming up there and artists having booths or things like that.

Kathy Kidd

20:27

Yeah. And you'd like Karen and Sally, you also see the value and beauty that art could bring to the center.

Bill Filler

20:34

Yeah. And, yeah, and then I think that, you know, I think pragmatically is sort of like starting to create like Edwin's already working on the nonprofit. Usually, when you try to create a project, and you're asking for donations, they ask you for what's your nonprofit number? So that's, that's, you know, certain steps I think have to be followed. And then also, the renovation of the property,

Larry Lawhorn

21:07

in phases. And that.

Kathy Kidd

21:10

Yeah, so you're thinking not only a what can we do when the property is ready, but also what do we need to do to start getting money and put the put stuff in place before we can do any, any carry out these ideas that we all have?

Bill Filler

21:23

Great. Thanks, Kathy. If you're fully here, all right. You're welcome.

Kathy Kidd

21:28

Larry, would you be willing to listen to me? Yes, Kathy. Okay. So I'm just gonna go through my ideas, just like Bill did. First of all, when I sat down, when I saw that from Edwin, I'm like, Okay, what ideas can I possibly contribute? And then I started writing, because my ideas come through when I write and I did, I did have some ideas.

Larry Lawhorn

21:56

So Kathy, I hear you saying, You're gonna go through your ideas. When I think you said everyone first suggested it, you started writing your ideas down. And your first thought, Well, what ideas do I have, and then you started writing them down?

Kathy Kidd

22:08

Yeah. And I didn't see that everybody else had ideas below, until I finished mine. And so that I went through everybody else's ideas to see if there was anything I could build on. So I learned as I talked about CPUs, so I still think that's a good idea. And if and when I have the time, I'd love to be a part of doing CEUs for social workers and therapists.

Larry Lawhorn

22:35

So you wrote your ideas down. And then you didn't notice that other people had written their ideas down because they were further down. And then you went through them looking at other ideas. And you liked the idea? I think? I think you said Karen suggested see us,

Kathy Kidd

22:51

Linda, Linda. Yeah. So but my first idea, which I love was building community, with other nonprofits that are, you know, carrying out the work we're carrying, you know, like, for example, peace Alliance, and empathy circles are now you know, becoming integrated. Karen just reached out to the King Center, and we become part of their family. So I love you know, the integration of different organizations

Larry Lawhorn

23:21

to love the idea of peace centers, and empathy collaborating together. And Karen also suggested that,

Kathy Kidd

23:30

Karen Well, you know, we have a lot of people in the Peace Alliance or have taken the empathy circles are attended. Um, so I love the integration. And then Karen reached out to the King Center. And there were integrating there. So I just love that the integration that happens between organizations,

Larry Lawhorn

23:52

so you love the integration, there's happening in between organizations, especially like your organization related to peace, and collaborating with the empathy circles. And Karen, I think you said reached out to the kings something in center. King Center. K I N G.

Kathy Kidd

24:13

Yeah. So yeah, I just love that. And actually, what Karen did recently really inspired me you know, that this is you know, it's just what started with a lot of different things. But for me, it was like okay, the empathy and now the King Center, what else can we do? I just like it's just like, I can see a blossoming.

Larry Lawhorn

24:38

So you just love the integration, and especially that Karen reached out to the kingdom center. You just love that.

Kathy Kidd

24:46

Yeah, and I can see all sorts of possibilities and I have just like a lot of inspiration and possibility.

Larry Lawhorn

24:54

And you can see a lot of possibility, and you feel very inspired by this. collaboration between the different organizations.

Kathy Kidd

25:03

Yeah. So that's what I envision is that there's like, kind of like we work, you know, but but more of a permanent offices that people rent and but you're all, like collaborating with each other, supporting each other. Yeah. So I just think that's very exciting.

Larry Lawhorn

25:31

So you're very excited by the collaboration going on between various organizations.

Kathy Kidd

25:37

Yeah. Yes. The possibility that the empathy center could hold space for that.

Larry Lawhorn

25:43

And the possibility that the empathy center could hold the space for that.

Kathy Kidd

25:48

Yes. Thank you, Larry. I feel fully heard.

Larry Lawhorn

25:51

Thank you counseling. Sally, will you be my listener? Sure. Thank you. Well, I love your cats today. I love all the cats in your screen. I love it. Love it. Love it. They're all collaborating.

Speaker 1

26:12

Love it? All the cats in my screen. And they're all collaborating with one another?

Larry Lawhorn

26:19

Yeah, I think they're all peace, cats.

Unknown Speaker

26:22

You think they're all peace cats.

Larry Lawhorn

26:25

Right? They're bringing peace wherever they go. They bring peace,

Unknown Speaker

26:31

at bring peace wherever they go.

Larry Lawhorn

26:35

They're kind of like walking gurus.

Speaker 1

26:41

They are like, walking gurus, of peace.

Larry Lawhorn

26:48

I've heard that some of them practice Reiki.

Speaker 1

26:53

And you heard that some of them practice Reiki.

Larry Lawhorn

26:59

And I think that's the way that piece expands is by each one of us. Living Peace. And just doing that.

Speaker 1

27:14

And you think that that's how we began by doing peace? Just like the couch that are scanned? How do you do it?

Larry Lawhorn

27:31

Yeah, and there's a really, really old quote, I think it's from the Bible. But I'm not a good scholar of the Bible. And I'll stop there.

Speaker 1

27:40

There's a really, really good old quote from the Bible, but you're not a really good scholar of the Bible.

Larry Lawhorn

27:53

And it might even be all the way from the Talmud.

Speaker 1

27:57

And it may be all the way from the Talmud.

Larry Lawhorn

28:01

That says something like, ask the animals and they will teach you.

Speaker 1

28:09

It's just something like, ask the animals and they will teach you.

Larry Lawhorn

28:16

Thank you, Sally. I feel fully heard.

Speaker 1

28:20

Oh, wonderful. Well, is okay. Bill? Yeah, my honor. While I'm

Bill Filler

28:32

sure I'm listening.

Speaker 1

28:36

Okay, so, yeah, you started talking about being out doors. And the only thing I can think of is my favorite, absolute favorite place to go in Santa Barbara. Oh, my God, the Santa Barbara, Natural History Museum.

Bill Filler

28:59

So I was talking about going outside in the activities locally. And you were thinking about your favorite place in Santa Barbara is the Santa Barbara Natural History Museum.

Speaker 1

29:12

Yeah, even has a planetary Astronomy Center where he sees a stars and there's kind of a fun show that they have various different constellations.

Bill Filler

29:28

Yeah. And in addition to the Natural History Museum, they have a planetarium

Speaker 1

29:34

as part of the Natural History Museum,

Bill Filler

29:37

right as part of the Natural History Museum.

Speaker 1

29:41

Okay, so my idea that I'm only given three ideas, but I have another pressing idea that work with Santa Barbara, let you know their bus and US Get a bus to do this, because I can no center so that people can go from wherever it is in Santa Barbara to know Santa.

Bill Filler

30:15

So another idea that you have, would be to talk to the municipal transit, Santa Barbara miscible transit about setting up a bus that would regularly take people up to the center.

Speaker 1

30:29

Yes, all the different aspects of, you know, some, like senior type bus. Things, and there's different types of bus systems more Express. But anyway, I don't think we should forget the people who live in Santa Barbara, and their need to be able to get to the, you know, can notice.

Bill Filler

31:07

So important aspect of the would be for you to provide public transportation in some form, to the quinoa center, so that the local populace can get up there.

Speaker 1

31:20

And I also want to just say, the key, I'm just gonna have tea and coffee, you know, it could be some kind of local you know, just some coffee that wants to put themselves on the property and pay rent to the canola center. And then some aspect of their what they may also go into the revenue for those center. And then adjacent, there would be like, a library. And you could buy books on peace? I don't know. So, and play games right there on cable.

Bill Filler

32:19

So you're seeing an area, there'll be some kind of semi commercial kind of cafe, bookstore, you know, places to play table games and things like that as an ongoing concern. And then the people who would do that would make some money, but then also contribute part of the proceeds to the center. Thank you. I probably are. Okay. All right. Let's see. Okay, Karen. I'm listening. Well, I haven't heard a bad idea yet. You know, I mean, I think that this is, this is all great. And, just for me, in a very practical sense, it all goes in sequence. So like, for instance, if you had a cafe there, that's great. But if you don't have people who come up there, or if you don't have the bus service that Sally was talking about, they're not going to make a lot of money. And it wouldn't be a going concern. So I'm sort of focused here on very pragmatic, practical issues of infrastructure and design. To to get started. I'll stop there. Sorry, that was a lot.

Speaker 2

33:44

Okay. Yeah, you started out with saying you haven't heard a bad idea yet. You, the way you kind of think is, is a little pragmatic. And you're kind of, if I'm hearing this, right, you're kind of setting things into a timeline, like First things first, yes, you have to start with the infrastructure. Get the bus route set before you expect people to come in and populate a cafe. And so those kinds of things, so you're just kind of looking at everything and How would things be implemented?

Bill Filler

34:18

Exactly. So I'm thinking about you know, what you would need to do to like for instance, I think a wedding if I haven't been there, but as I understand it, the chapel is still in good shape. So wedding you could do like tomorrow. You could, you know, there's a kitchen there. If somebody if you people who are having the wedding, hire a caterer, the caterer can use that kitchen and things like that. So because caterers you know, are they're designed to go to venues and and, you know, deliver food at a venue rather than just simply being central. Located, I'll stop there.

Speaker 2

35:02

Okay. Yeah. So you're actually been looking at what could happen there before anything else is done. For example, you believe the chapel is still in good shape. So it could be made available for weddings or some and that a caterer could probably set up just fine without anything else happening. So looking at those kind of revenue opportunities or exposure opportunities at the outset.

Bill Filler

35:28

Yeah. And, you know, and then, again, you could have longer trainings, or you could have a week retreat. But again, those incur additional infrastructure, you know, needs? And so therefore, what would like a first place where people would stay overnight, let's say for one night, what would what would you need for that? Is it ready for that? Or would you need to do some more for that?

Speaker 2

35:58

Okay, so then also looking at, if there were going to be a retreat, if it needed an overnight stay, what what kind of infrastructure would need to be addressed for that to happen? So just really, and I know, you didn't say this, but I think and so it just imagining, you know, a spreadsheet with with what comes first and, and so forth, and, you know, just kind of getting it organized? And then looking at it from that perspective.

Bill Filler

36:28

Yeah, yeah. And, and so therefore, and then creating and synchronizing a timeline, with the sort of events that you could, you know, have so for instance, if you wanted to have an artist in residence, which I think is a you know, or social entrepreneur in residence, that's a great idea, but then persons living there. And so that's that room is not generating income, necessarily. Maybe they pay rent, maybe they don't. But that would be more of a longer term thing, once it's established. I see it as far as the pragmatics is concerned, you know, that's it.

Speaker 2

37:10

Okay. All right. And then just looking at each possibility and what it entails, like an artist in residence may or may not pay rent, or an entrepreneur, social entrepreneur in residence, and, and just kind of really not saying anything now, but just looking at all the different possibilities and when they might be implemented and what would need to happen in order for them to be implemented.

Bill Filler

37:35

Thanks, Kevin. I feel fuller.

Speaker 2

37:40

All right. I don't I have Edwin, listen to me. Listening. Okay. Um, you know, what I haven't heard yet is I haven't heard Larry say how much he loves empathy. You bring that up?

Edwin Rutsch

38:01

You just haven't heard Larry say he loves empathy circles. That sounds like you're sort of missing that.

Speaker 2

38:07

Yes, yes. I just want to bring that into the circle. And how much I personally love empathy circles. And, yeah, it's kind of an interesting way for brainstorming, I'm actually liking this process and the things that are that are coming up.

Edwin Rutsch

38:27

You appreciate empathy circles, as well, and also see it appreciate the processes of brainstorming process.

Speaker 2

38:36

Yeah. So I just thought I'd kind of piggyback off of some of the things Kathy said, with reaching out to other organizations. And just from the peace movement, I know we are I did that, probably 17 years ago, when I started this work. And a lot of the peace organizations were just kind of getting started, or they just needed to focus on their own mission and didn't have a lot of bandwidth to try to collaborate and cooperate. And when I started reaching out about three years ago, it was a totally different receptivity, and, and a willingness and a desire to kind of collaborate and, and find some commonality and increase impact. So it's actually a good time in the history of the planet in the openness of people working toward cultural change, to look for those kinds of partnerships.

Edwin Rutsch

39:32

So from your experience that when you first were working with the Peace Alliance, that people didn't weren't really ready, other organizations weren't ready to collaborate. But now more recently, you found that there's maybe a shift and there is more openness to collaboration, and it's also maybe the times the Global Times are making it more interest in collaboration. They have more bandwidth to

Speaker 2

39:59

use out. Yeah. And and it's possible they've gotten the same feedback that we did early on, you know, we are an advocacy organization. So we've been meeting with members of Congress and, and got that feedback from two offices. It's like, Well, why don't all the peace organizations get together and they could really make a difference? And it's like, yeah, so yeah, so I started making those phone calls and easier said than done back then.

Edwin Rutsch

40:24

I see. So this, like, the politicians were actually saying, why don't you form maybe like an association get together? It'll be better for organization. And then you actually started doing that, and people weren't as receptive as they are now?

Speaker 2

40:39

Yes, yes. And I've thought about that over the years that if the peace people can't find common ground to work together, how do we expect politicians to do that? And even the ones that are more statesman, persons than politician? Yeah. So you know, the the peace begins within and and with the likely substitute suspects first, before we are going to the people that don't have the kind of exposure to information and heartfelt experiences we do.

Edwin Rutsch

41:15

So there's, if the Peace Committee is talking about peace, they should be able to work together towards that. And if they can't sort of model it, you're maybe a little, you'd be a little people would be skeptical of it.

Speaker 2

41:33

Yeah, yeah. And, and really, that it would make a different impact, if I could demonstrate that. And I say that more is the support of, I can't imagine a peace or non violent organization right now. That isn't really front of mind, understanding the crucial element of empathy and everything to do. So there is that wide range of organizations.

Edwin Rutsch

42:08

So that with the Peace organizations collaborating with each other sort of modeling, it would just have the peace would just have a lot more impact, as well, as you're seeing that the peace organizations really see empathy as core to their message. Yeah, yes. Okay. I'll speak to Kathy. Let's Yeah, I think for the peace, movement, empathy is central. It just it's like the, it's, it's so critical. Yeah.

Kathy Kidd

42:43

Yeah. So you think for the peace movement, empathy is critical.

Edwin Rutsch

42:47

And you don't have to reflect this part. But Johan Galtung, who started the peace and conflict studies, he says, Peace is resolving conflict with empathy, creativity, and non violence, and it's a never ending process. And I think that empathy component gets left out. It's not, you know, the peace movement.

Kathy Kidd

43:09

Right. So you are quoting Johann Galton, and his definition of peace. And that includes empathy. And, and you think that's very important, because sympathy does get left out.

Edwin Rutsch

43:21

I appreciate Bill's thinking in terms of systematic, you know, flow, you know, practicality, I did start using exploring monday.com service project management software. And I invite everyone to check out monday.com is a project management software, there's like a new generation of project management software. And this is like one of the top ones, and they have 10 seats for free for nonprofits, and then like a 70% discount off their pricing after 10 users. So that's kind of a way of kind of starting that systematic, you know, Gantt charts, calendars, it's all kind of integrates. Yeah.

Kathy Kidd

44:10

So you agree that there needs to be something in place that will manage this project from start to opening up and you found monday.com online that allows 1010 users free and then 70% After that, and so that's where you're starting to do this linear project management.

Edwin Rutsch

44:36

In terms of transportation with Sally, the location is just 10 minutes from downtown Santa Barbara it's uh the last part is a very windy you know, narrow road but it is really good access to San downtown Santa Barbara 10 minutes.

Kathy Kidd

44:55

So when when benefit of this property is that is easy access from Santa Barbara only about 10 minutes.

Edwin Rutsch

45:02

And it's about 15 minutes to Oprah's house and Meghan and Prince Harry. So if we need sugar or eat the virus, yeah, we know where to go.

Kathy Kidd

45:17

Yeah, there's a huge advantage because you're you, you're near Oprah and Harry and Megan.

Edwin Rutsch

45:24

So the other thing I'm thinking, I'm also thinking those practical terms is we have these intro empathy circles or visioning circles, how do we start forming, you know, project teams, you know, moving people along the path of being a volunteer, being inspired about a project, you know, forming a team, maybe getting a team lead, putting together projects, you know, these different empathy based projects? So I'm sort of thinking of that, that, that process.

Kathy Kidd

45:55

So how do we go from ideas to forming a team and actually implementing those ideas?

Edwin Rutsch

46:01

Yeah, and you know, and then the project teams, the idea is to get funding for them. So something we're like, we've done a lot with volunteers. You know, it's, it's hard working with just volunteers that you really need a core of paid staff to really keep things moving. So how do we, you know, kind of move towards getting donors and paid staff and all that. So that's the other. Yeah.

Kathy Kidd

46:30

Yeah. So you realize volunteers are wonderful, and they can only take things so far. So you do need a paid staff? And how, you know, how would you get funding for that?

Edwin Rutsch

46:41

Yeah, I feel really hurt. Thanks. You're welcome.

Kathy Kidd

46:47

Ah, salad. Do you want to listen to me?

Unknown Speaker

46:57

Do you mind? Video?

Kathy Kidd

47:01

I don't mind. I don't mind. Okay, so yeah, I love I love hearing all of these ideas. And Edwin is right, the organization, the peace lines is like 98%, volunteer driven. And there are I mean, there's beauty in that. And there are some drawbacks to that. So raising money is absolutely definitely important.

Speaker 1

47:34

And when there's write about raising money, and that is very important to fund, maybe like six people from working in different positions, so

Kathy Kidd

47:47

I don't know how many people but just to fund fund a core staff.

Speaker 1

47:52

Okay, you don't know how many positions but to fund a core staff.

Kathy Kidd

47:57

Right. And when Edwin first mentioned this, that, you know, the first thing I said is you need a well being coordinator or emotional safety coordinator to tend to everyone because their conflict is everywhere. And if you're, you're alive, you're gonna experience conflict. So I think having somebody that kind of like, pins to that, and to lifework balance all of that. So it's kind of like an inside, you know, internal HR, or EAP program, but it's that, you know, not outsource its in house.

Speaker 1

48:43

So, with this concept of having funds come in, that there has to be like, when you call that, like, EAP, or, you know, getting in to people's feelings and heart, and so they are tended to was care.

Kathy Kidd

49:16

And then as part of that, I'm just very excited thought of having a place where all nonprofits can, can come and get mediation. In fact, we go out to them and tell them about what we do and, and talks about conflict, how it's normal and natural. And that that would be like one of the things that we that is a big focus for us. And you know, to work on a sliding scale fee basis and maybe even have people that would fund fund that. That purpose.

Speaker 1

49:53

So, this concept expands to having a Bianna I think scale basis, a center of mediation where people could come and be served to problem solve issues maybe with families and other things. And

Kathy Kidd

50:16

office not you know, the personnel inside nonprofits.

Speaker 1

50:22

The personnel inside profit nonprofits, nonprofit, sorry.

Kathy Kidd

50:31

Yeah, they don't have to come there can be virtual,

Speaker 1

50:35

that they don't have to come their debit can be virtual.

Kathy Kidd

50:39

Right. And the the other thing I'll share that I that I think is just like a excites me is murals everywhere, you know, colorful, artful murals everywhere. And, you know, I love these idea of slogans. So live a colorful impact. Empathic live, right? Yeah, color, lots of color.

Speaker 1

51:05

So this idea of, you know, this space, including wonderful, colorful murals all throughout it, so when people come they are enjoying that aspect of, you know, the beauty of everywhere. Day one.

Kathy Kidd

51:30

Yeah, that's my time. Sally. Thank you very much. I feel heard.

Speaker 1

51:35

Okay. I'm trying. Very codependent cat. And I'm thinking everyone has everyone. Have you gone?

Edwin Rutsch

51:48

Recently? Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1

51:51

Larry. Okay. Let's hope for the best. Okay, um, well, I just want to say that there are a lot of wealthy older people. Maybe they all got killed off by COVID. But maybe not. Because I know my mom was handicapped when she took those little buses, Ada type buses, all around town. And she donated. K donated 1000s and 1000s of dollars.

Larry Lawhorn

52:41

So Sally, I'm hearing you say that. Like Edwin was saying that there are some things you're saying wealthy people that live in the community, and that your mom donated and travel around and the ADA, I think you said transportation. And also she donated a lot of money to those

Speaker 1

53:07

unbelievable amount of money because these people, you know, they bought housing for $26,000. And then all of a sudden, their houses are worth $2 million. And they just, you know, they're old people. And the old people is the bus. So I'm just throwing that out there. But it doesn't, you know?

Larry Lawhorn

53:36

So I'm hearing you're throwing it out there that these people, these old people, when they bought houses, they were $26,000. And then before you know it, they were millions of dollars.

Speaker 1

53:51

And exactly, and don't really know what to do with it all.

Larry Lawhorn

53:58

And they don't know what to do with it all.

Speaker 1

54:03

In then, in regards to bills project I would go every year to Disneyland with my school, you know, all the way there'll be a yellow bus, three of them and take every class to Disneyland. But I think that could be reverse suck that LA San Bernardino, Orange County's do the same kind of bus to the you know, I got a summer school class two weeks where they come and get educated on empathy.

Larry Lawhorn

54:51

So similar in the way that used to go every year to Disney Land using the sounds like a bus kind of transportation, they could use some kind of a public transportation, to bring people to the empathy center for educational events, something like that.

Speaker 1

55:06

No, this was our class. And the entire class, well, it would be the whole grade. And we'd all pile into like three yellow buses, and then go to Disneyland. So in reverse, instead of going to just laying around, they go to the empathy center and get trained for a couple of weeks, like a summer school.

Larry Lawhorn

55:38

So instead of going to Disney Land, they would, it would be like in the reverse that would go into the empathy center for training.

Speaker 1

55:47

Yeah, they just pile up in the yellow school buses.

Larry Lawhorn

55:51

They pile up in the yellow school buses.

Unknown Speaker

55:55

And it's summer school

Larry Lawhorn

55:57

during summer school.

Unknown Speaker

56:00

Thank you, and hopefully her.

Larry Lawhorn

56:03

Thank you, Sally. Bill, will you be my listeners? Sure. Happy to thank you. I've been enjoying our conversation and sharing the the ideas

Bill Filler

56:19

of enjoying the conversation and sharing the ideas.

Larry Lawhorn

56:22

And I was taking notes built on, like when you suggested, you know, it's hard to come up with three new ideas every week.

Bill Filler

56:35

Right, so you were riffing off of what I said, about coming up with three new ideas every week.

Larry Lawhorn

56:41

Right? So I went back to my notes, and they're the same three suggestions that have slightly evolved.

Bill Filler

56:48

So when you checked in your original three suggestions, you've seen that they've slightly evolved the same, but they've slightly evolved.

Larry Lawhorn

56:56

The first one was originally to create a large organic garden that will sustain the healthy nutritional needs. You have to repeat all this. Residents and visitors as well as teaching classes in healthy organic nutrition online. And in the empathy Center, an organic organic garden modeled on Findhorn have just modeled on Findhorn if you could just repeat that.

Bill Filler

57:23

Sure I understand. So you're interested in establishing an organic garden modeled on the concepts pioneered in Findhorn

Larry Lawhorn

57:33

right. And they of course, also found a way to treat their waters so that you know, the aquaponics they've got all that going on. So it's been done.

Bill Filler

57:46

Yeah. And then one of the things they did is they integrated aquaponics, which integrates fish and the fish waste, fertilizing the plants and things like that. So this is a model that's been tried and works.

Larry Lawhorn

57:57

Yes. And I remember many years ago, decades ago, I guess now traveling to Fiji and seeing them doing that in Fiji.

Bill Filler

58:10

So you remember you took a quick trip to Fiji years ago, and people and people were doing the same thing as that they do at Findhorn in Fiji.

Larry Lawhorn

58:20

Yeah. And at the time, I didn't think a lot of it, but later find out you know, it's really a really natural way to produce fertilizer and to clean water.

Bill Filler

58:37

Yeah, and you didn't think much of the time, but actually over the over the decades. It's really been a proven system for fertilizing and also cleaning water.

Larry Lawhorn

58:49

Right. Thank you, Bill. And my second idea was developing an intentional community. I like that intentional community, you know, based around empathy and education.

Bill Filler

59:01

So the second idea was developing an intentional community based upon empathy and education that

Larry Lawhorn

59:09

would provide services for local communities and organizations and schools, including see us for colleges.

Bill Filler

59:16

Yeah, that would provide educational opportunities for local schools, things and CEUs for professional organizations.

Larry Lawhorn

59:24

And now my third idea has evolved following Jones creative suggestion.

Bill Filler

59:35

So your third idea is influenced by what Joan said.

Larry Lawhorn

59:40

And that was to create an Open Art Center for Local artists to showcase their original artwork, and provide teaching workshops for the local community and share classes online via zoom and the quote, intentional community educational website.

Bill Filler

01:00:01

Okay, well, that's a lot, but essentially using that intentional community, developing an area for local artists to develop and display their art, as well as other educational opportunities for other

Larry Lawhorn

01:00:15

entities. Thank you, Bill. I feel fully. Okay. Thanks.

Bill Filler

01:00:19

I'll talk to Edwin listening. So I really liked what Larry said. I just about aquaponics. In my anecdotally, I used to consider myself the Himmler of orchids.

Edwin Rutsch

01:00:39

Hmm. So you're liking what Larry said. And you were the Himmler of orchids.

Bill Filler

01:00:46

Right? Yeah. And I love orchids. And you know, and I set them up with the Northern Light. And I spray them every day, and they would wilt and never blossom.

Edwin Rutsch

01:00:59

You love them. You take care of them, you'd spray them, you give them good lighting, but they just wouldn't blossom. They'd actually will. Right.

Bill Filler

01:01:06

So then we got some as a I stopped buying them, because I couldn't stand the pain. And so, but then we got some as President, and I started to water them. Like, really? What are the roots? Not the leaves? Once a week with my aquarium water.

Edwin Rutsch

01:01:30

Ah, so you found that instead of sort of spraying the leaves, you would just water give them water? The Roots water with the aquarium water?

Bill Filler

01:01:38

Yeah, they're not actually roots, but the epiphytes the base? Yeah, but And lo and behold, these orchids have been blooming for a year.

Edwin Rutsch

01:01:50

They've been doing really well with that aquarium water.

Bill Filler

01:01:54

Yeah, yeah. So I really have seen an experience the aquaponics. And certainly the education thing that Larry talked about. I'm totally in on that.

Edwin Rutsch

01:02:09

Yeah, but you've just seen the aquaponics in it work. And so real believer in that then also interested in what Larry's saying about education.

Bill Filler

01:02:20

Yeah. And then the first thing that again, going back to the timeline, would be to plan a sort of icon Oh, would be promotion, I think promotion is going to be key to everything else that's done there. So I saw it. So you know, a lot of advertisement in local papers and in the area, and create a creating like an open house. For the community come open house, certainly can include artists to put to displaying their works or anything else. But you know, coming up there, you have some tea and coffee, a few snacks, a few things like that. Just let people experience the space.

Edwin Rutsch

01:03:02

So first step is just have like an open house, people can come kind of casual tea and coffee, just experience the space, you're kind of thinking of the steps. And this is like one of the first steps

Bill Filler

01:03:15

before even that though, you need emotion.

Edwin Rutsch

01:03:19

And even before that, you gotta Promote Market The the event.

Bill Filler

01:03:24

Yeah, right. So you really have to start to think about making a sort of advertising presence in some way.

Edwin Rutsch

01:03:32

And really thinking how to kind of promote it and advertise to the community.

Bill Filler

01:03:38

Yeah, yeah. I feel fully heard. Thank you.

Edwin Rutsch

01:03:41

Okay. Speak to Karen. Listening. Yeah, in terms of promotion, these empathy cafes have been in a promotion, there was an article written in a real estate magazine about, you know, the purchase of the property. And, you know, about 50 people have sort of contacted us from Santa Barbara through that article.

Speaker 2

01:04:07

Yeah, so on the subject of promotion, there was an article on a real estate magazine, just by virtue of buying the property and 50 people have come forward already.

Edwin Rutsch

01:04:16

Yeah, and find you and we've taken part in empathy circles. So that's been sort of a way to connect with the community talk to them. So it's part of that promotion that bill's talking about.

Speaker 2

01:04:29

Yeah, and some of them have already participated in empathy circles, and it's part of that promotion and, and connection to the community that Bill and others here have talked about,

Edwin Rutsch

01:04:41

and I just made a vinyl banner, two feet by six feet, says, Come dialogue with us. Canola center.com. We just put it up on the front gate just couple days ago. So everybody driving by is going to see that and hopefully you know, that'll lead them to these empathy circles. Also, speaking

Speaker 2

01:05:04

of promotion, you've got your sign. So you've got the banner out that says, Come dialog with us and the name of the center. And you've and you've got it posted. So yeah, I'm stepping

Edwin Rutsch

01:05:17

direction. And right now the meeting space is full of furniture. So we've got to clear all that out, we're starting to get dumpsters to throw the bad stuff out furniture. And so we'll have a space soon for, you know, having that event. Yeah, that bill's talking about.

Speaker 2

01:05:34

Okay, and you've already you've been in the space, and you've got some excess things in the meeting space. And you're, you've got plans to get a dumpster there and get it ready to have in person meetings in the space. Yeah.

Edwin Rutsch

01:05:48

And so I'm still thinking of this process, thinking through this process of going from empathy circles to forming project teams, and kind of the step by step along that. So I would think that if people are interested in being involved in some kind of a project, that we could have, like a project oriented empathy cafe to just start talking and sharing ideas. So be more specific than a broad general visioning. We'd be like, oh, I want to be involved. This, you know, here's my ideas. And let's talk about that and kind of move towards real projects.

Speaker 2

01:06:29

Yeah, so along the lines of what you've brought up before is how do we go from visioning to implementation or forming teams? And so you're wondering about having empathy circles to form project teams?

Edwin Rutsch

01:06:42

Yeah. And I'm starting to make little a category. So position well, being coordinator, right, you start getting a job description of that? And then how do you sort of develop that, and another physician is Art Director, Center art director, who's going to manage all the sort of arts projects? So it's just a lot of sort of organizational stuff that needs to happen to? Yeah, it's kind of a step by step.

Speaker 2

01:07:10

Yeah, so you're already, you know, looking at getting lists and putting things in categories like positions, our director and the wellness, or the safety coordinator, and things like that, so that you can feel organized and developed.

Edwin Rutsch

01:07:30

Yeah, there's all these things that to make to take something from an idea to move it through to an organized structure in a, you know, a program, or there's all these different steps, we need to develop that process for that step. Those steps.

Speaker 2

01:07:46

Good. Yeah. So you're recognizing and sounds like already engaged in that process of taking things from ideas and, and implementing them into the organized states? Steps? And it sounds like you're using the monday.com maybe already as a tool for that. And,

Edwin Rutsch

01:08:03

yeah, yeah, learning it. So thank you go fully heard. That was my time.

Speaker 2

01:08:08

Okay. Why don't I have Cathy Listen to me, that's me. Okay. Again, there's just so much to soak up and such good information and heartspace in the room. So I just want to express appreciation for being here today. First,

Kathy Kidd

01:08:33

you want to express appreciation for the space that has been created today. And that the heartful felt presence of everyone

Speaker 2

01:08:42

now, and a, what comes to mind for me is, is having people who have experience with team building, because that's, that's a big part of what's happening here. And there are stages of team building. And I have a master's degree in organizational development. So I'm just eating all of this stuff up. You know, one of the team building classes that I have, it's if you skip a step in team building, you'll you'll go back into storming and it's you know, there's a way to smoothly team build. And, and, and there's always some some rocks in the path when you're team building anyway. But there's, there's ways for you to kind of streamline and have it be a more creative, engaging process. So there's a lot of information on team building out there.

Kathy Kidd

01:09:35

Okay. All right. So you have a degree in organizational development, and it sounds like you're really jazzed about the team building aspect. But you also know there are some important steps and team building you don't want to miss a step. Even if you follow all the steps there still might be some hiccups but at least you can follow the steps and and maybe have less of that.

Speaker 2

01:09:59

Yeah, See, yes. And there is conflict inevitable, and team building. And by acknowledging that and planning for it, you know, certainly by the roles that have been mentioned, etc. There's, there's a way to create the space for that to happen in it in a way for it not to derail development, but to play its useful role in it.

Kathy Kidd

01:10:26

So you recognize the importance of from the beginning, setting up a process for conflict and normalizing it, so that it doesn't derail the team or the work that's being done?

Speaker 2

01:10:39

Yeah, yeah. And beyond that, I've had training with Mickey Cashton, and NBC certified trainer on a process that she has labeled convergent facilitation. So once you have your team together, just to get some kind of group consensus, consensus, or action items from a large group of people. And I really just carry at least one phrase with me is inviting dissension. And that, I think that's important. She talked about, if you don't invite it at the beginning stages of a project initiative program. If people don't feel comfortable speaking up, and saying, Well, wait, what about this? Is this in line with this value or something that it will come up in the implementation process, and might set up an implementation schedule back? I'm done with that sounds? So

Kathy Kidd

01:11:39

you through your work with Nikki cash and NBC, you learned about convergent facilitation, and the thing that impressed you about that was a concept of invite dissension at the beginning. Because if to create a space where people can bring up their concerns, disagreements, whatever, because if you don't provide it at the beginning, it's going to come up anyway. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker

01:12:05

I just, Oh, okay. I guess I'm done.

Kathy Kidd

01:12:11

Okay, my turn. Bill, would you listen to me?

Bill Filler

01:12:16

Happily, sure, Kathy. Oh.

Kathy Kidd

01:12:21

So when I heard about teams forming that was exciting for me, because while I can help an organization start from the beginning, I'm just like that really jazzed about that anymore?

Bill Filler

01:12:35

Yeah, so when you heard about the aspect of having teams forming that really kind of mode motivated to?

Kathy Kidd

01:12:45

Yeah, yeah. And how would I find time? It's just like, Oh, my God, there's so much I want to do, I just don't I don't know where I'd fit it in. And my life has become a little more complicated the last few months.

Bill Filler

01:13:03

Yeah, so you're excited about it. On the other hand, in practical terms, you would wonder how you'd find the time to work on that, that your life has become more complicated in the last few months?

Kathy Kidd

01:13:16

Yeah. So I definitely want to support in some way, I just don't know how that's gonna look look like what that's gonna look like. And, and I know, it will be grieving, that I can't support in the way I want unless I retire.

Bill Filler

01:13:33

Yeah, and so you're very excited about this. But you don't feel that you would have the time necessarily to commit the way that would require that sort of amount of time. And you don't see way clearer, unless you would retire.

Kathy Kidd

01:13:49

Right. And I would be grieving, not being able to participate as much as I would want to be able to participate.

Bill Filler

01:13:56

Right, and you would have a certain amount of grieving in the sense that you wouldn't be able to participate in the way you would like to.

Kathy Kidd

01:14:03

Right. Yeah. I hate to miss out on something good.

Bill Filler

01:14:06

You hate to miss out on something good. Yeah,

Kathy Kidd

01:14:09

yeah. So I also have to tell myself, I cannot be involved. I do not have to be involved in everything. I'm, I'm afraid I'm gonna miss something. I just needed to, you know, reconfigure that thinking.

Bill Filler

01:14:26

Right. And so in your self reflection, you know, there's a part of you that wants to be involved in everything. And there's another part that says, Look, you don't have to be involved in everything. It's not, you know, practical or doable.

Kathy Kidd

01:14:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So let's see, where do I want to go next?

Kathy Kidd

01:15:01

Yeah, I think I think I'm complete. Okay, for now. Thank you.

Bill Filler

01:15:05

Sure. Sure. My pleasure. Okay, Larry. So as we're talking, I kind of thought of, I was focused on promotion. And then I was thinking, why not bring the empathy tent to select the art on the Beach Festival, and start to promote ourselves that way.

Larry Lawhorn

01:15:30

So you're thinking about ideas of promotion? And you thought about, why not bring the empathy tent to like art festivals on the beach, things like that, and promote it that way?

Bill Filler

01:15:39

Yeah. So I was really interested in that. I looked it up. They actually have art on the beach every Sunday, year round.

Larry Lawhorn

01:15:50

So they actually have art on the beach every Sunday, year round.

Bill Filler

01:15:55

Right. And then on holiday weekends, they also have it on Saturdays.

Larry Lawhorn

01:16:01

And on holidays, they also have it on Saturday.

Bill Filler

01:16:03

Right? So I think it has to be art related, I don't know. Possibly, we could sort of use the empathy game as sort of like an in there, or something else. You know, I'll stop there.

Larry Lawhorn

01:16:21

So it sounds like including the idea of Joan to make it art related, you could probably also include the the game like the empathy game.

Bill Filler

01:16:31

Right? That's just one thing. It's not the only thing that we could do there. I'm sure there's other art and empathy, empathy and art. And just matter of fact, we could maybe ally with a local artist who is, you know, doing something like that, that's another possibility.

Larry Lawhorn

01:16:50

There could be alignment with local artists and empathy, and it's just very inclusive with with art. Sounds like something like that.

Bill Filler

01:16:59

Yeah, yeah, we could, you know, that's one of the things is that if we had one or several artists, we could then you know, promote their work or even sell their work in the empathy tent, along with listening to people.

Larry Lawhorn

01:17:13

So it could be like a collaborative adventure of including a local artists that we're collaborating with, including their art in the empathy tent. So it all be like a symbiotic relationship. I didn't say that word, but it sounds like that.

Bill Filler

01:17:27

Yeah. Yeah. And Thanks, Larry. I feel fully heard.

Larry Lawhorn

01:17:31

Thanks, Bill. Edwin, will you be my listener, listening? I really enjoy these very creative empathy circles related to this exploration.

Edwin Rutsch

01:17:51

Are you really enjoying appreciating these this brainstorming that we're doing here?

Larry Lawhorn

01:17:57

Yes, it seems like when we come together and share ideas, it's like the bees kind of cross pollinating the flowers or something like that.

Edwin Rutsch

01:18:07

Yeah, there's a lot of IDEA cross pollination, just like bees are really spreading that creativity, maybe inspiration.

Larry Lawhorn

01:18:17

Yeah. So it seems like a natural, symbiotic. Collaborative ideas are being kind of like, sprouted something like that.

Edwin Rutsch

01:18:31

Yeah, it's like ideas are being sprouted here in the empathy circle. hearing some real appreciation for that maybe even some enjoyment of the process.

Larry Lawhorn

01:18:41

Yeah, there's something something enjoyable about gardening.

Edwin Rutsch

01:18:46

So this is sort of like idea gardening. There's something enjoyable about it.

Larry Lawhorn

01:18:51

Yeah. When our minds are collaborating and creating ideas, there's just a joy about that.

Edwin Rutsch

01:19:02

Yeah, when you're just brainstorming ideas, and collaborating with ideas, and maybe everyone being heard about it, that there's a joy that happens in that.

Larry Lawhorn

01:19:14

Yeah. And I really do love empathy circles.

Edwin Rutsch

01:19:21

And you're gonna make Karen happy by just saying you, you really enjoy empathy circles.

Larry Lawhorn

01:19:28

I really, really do.

Edwin Rutsch

01:19:31

Really, really, like

Larry Lawhorn

01:19:34

I'm like, I'm not kidding.

Edwin Rutsch

01:19:37

Not kidding here. I really enjoy. These are close. Not

Larry Lawhorn

01:19:42

full, like, thank you. And when I feel fully heard,

Edwin Rutsch

01:19:45

great. Sally, can I speak to you? Yeah. Okay, so I'm taking these different ideas and I'm translating them into positions. So, you know, when Bill is talking about the empathy tent team, I'm thinking of a position of the empathy tent team, sort of project manager.

Speaker 1

01:20:11

So when you were listening to Bill, about the empathy tent team, you were thinking about how to position it in your dynamics of the time period, or

Edwin Rutsch

01:20:35

when I'm saying position, I mean, is a job, a role, a leadership position, or a volunteer position? So I'm thinking of sort of the roles in terms of people taking on responsibility for those projects.

Speaker 1

01:20:51

Okay, so, yeah, instead of putting it on a chart actually, to develop a position or voluntary position to take on the role of

Edwin Rutsch

01:21:11

managing empathy tense, yeah, yeah, managing empathy is the empathy in terms of promotion at the empathy Panthers, where we've gotten way, like 95% of the publicity that we've gotten articles we've gone Fox and Friends on TV, you know, on Breitbart, they wrote about it. So it's, it's the most publicity we got is when we're out in public, you know, doing empathy tent stuff that is like the number one location for publicity and promotion.

Speaker 1

01:21:47

So it's actually the empathy tents, which are getting 95% of the participation comes out of that.

Edwin Rutsch

01:22:02

Promotion. It's a promotion, it's the most thing they get the most attention media promotion attention from.

Speaker 1

01:22:10

Yeah, so you get the most media attention from me said 95%.

Edwin Rutsch

01:22:18

Yeah, I feel heard.

Speaker 1

01:22:20

Okay, um, yeah, so I'm gonna go and I'm Cassie, can I take

Kathy Kidd

01:22:34

some listing Sally?

Speaker 1

01:22:36

Okay. Yeah, I also want to dimension that you could put in these empathy tents. In other places that have a tremendous amount of people. Every day, there's Botanical Gardens, in addition to the Natural History Museum, and Romeike art, then there's the Santa Barbara Museum of Art. And there's several actual museums, but that would be a potential in addition to the Arlington and Granada theatres, which are, you know, classics where people just come in there just to see the buildings and there's just a really exciting history

Kathy Kidd

01:23:45

so building on the empathy circles in the empathy 10 set locations you know of many locations in Santa Barbara, the Botanical Gardens, various museums sounds like a couple of theaters that have classic architecture you can see it but the tents as a possibility in those places.

Speaker 1

01:24:10

Yeah, and then oh, well definitely at the mission and I they just have all kinds of tents at permission. I can't really remember at the beach. But I imagine if you want to pay for the spot, be there

Kathy Kidd

01:24:42

so you're continuing to think about other locations one might be the beach you might have to pay for it. And I don't I didn't quite understand what the first one was that you mentioned.

Speaker 1

01:24:55

Um yeah, right now member My apologies. My cat is nasty. Okay, um, I'm just gonna have to say that at a later time, but oh, the mission has all kinds of those tents where there's, you know, focus on different types of topics, you know it could range from you know, he's four anyway, just different kinds of subjects. Yeah. That aren't.

Kathy Kidd

01:25:48

So you two couldn't quite recall the first thing you mentioned, then you recall it as the missions or the mission. They have a lot of tents set up there wasn't clear what kind. And your cat is kind of taking you off track sometimes you said naughty, naughty cat, or something like that?

Speaker 1

01:26:09

Yes. He. Yeah, she's been cold for several days here during the storm alone, and she needs to be Catholic.

Kathy Kidd

01:26:25

So she was really anxious during the storm. She was all alone for several days. And so she needs your comfort by petting her. And that was time.

Unknown Speaker

01:26:34

Thank you. I feel fully heard. Okay.

Kathy Kidd

01:26:39

Oh. Let's see. There. I think I think it might be. Have you had to go rounds or three?

Larry Lawhorn

01:26:51

I'm ready.

Kathy Kidd

01:26:52

Great. I'm listening. I mean, I'm talking. I'm so

Kathy Kidd

01:27:08

Okay, good present, Kathy. Not sure that I have anything else to add right now. But oh, I know what I was thinking about. How far short of the mark I fall, when it comes to inbox embodying empathy and living a life where empathy is always present. I fall short of the mark.

Larry Lawhorn

01:27:33

So Kathy, I hear you saying that you fall short of the mark of completely, always living embodying a life of empathy. I think that's what you see, is yes,

Kathy Kidd

01:27:43

I luckily, I know self compassion. So I give myself self compassion, a lot. And Grace.

Larry Lawhorn

01:27:56

So if this ever occurs, then fortunately, you do know the process of self empathy. So you can give yourself empathy, and grace, self compassion, self compassion, self compassion.

Kathy Kidd

01:28:16

And Grace. Yeah. So, so I'm thinking, as I'm thinking that I'm thinking, you know, there could be a program designed specifically for people that want to embody empathy, not just the empathy circles, but something something more. A little bit different. So go ahead.

Larry Lawhorn

01:28:50

So you don't know exactly what it would be. But you're thinking that there could be a program for people who wanted to embody empathy or compassion all the time, something like that?

Kathy Kidd

01:29:03

Yeah. Because the reason, the big reason I attend the circles and why I'm so committed, is because it does keep bad front and center for me. Every week, I know I can, can come and be reminded of the power of empathy.

Larry Lawhorn

01:29:22

And one of the reasons you attend empathy circles is that you know, every week you can come and be reminded of the empathy, the power of empathy, the power of empathy,

Kathy Kidd

01:29:38

and how it can change your being

Larry Lawhorn

01:29:42

and how empathy changes the way you're being can change the way you're being can change the way you're being eight.

Kathy Kidd

01:29:50

So So I think there's something there I don't know exactly what it is. I'm gonna write a note so I can fully you know, think that out more fully, but It's different from the empathy circles. And I don't know exactly what but it would be something some program called embodying empathy.

Larry Lawhorn

01:30:09

So you're gonna make a note to dig deeper into this and be something like embodying empathy.

Kathy Kidd

01:30:16

Yes. And thank you, Larry, I feel fully heard. Thank you. Okay.

Edwin Rutsch

01:30:22

Larry, are you okay? With us just having maybe 15 minutes or 20 minutes of open sort of brainstorming without the reflection, just anybody can jump in. So, and also, you can take any kind of notes are very, very taking notes. So Oh, and just kind of open it some more.

Larry Lawhorn

01:30:45

I just quickly say that I love these brainstorming, and empathy gardens. I love it.

Edwin Rutsch

01:30:54

I do too. Yeah. I didn't want to quickly address what you're saying, Kathy, I know exactly what you mean. It's like how do we embody empathy on a regular basis, in our sort of interactions with people I know, as I'm organizing this, and interacting with a lot of people, I asked myself that too, I feel I fall short in terms of maintaining sort of an empathic presence. And then, and having a place to talk about it, or even a program to address it outside of the empathy circle. I really, I really get I've been thinking a lot about that, too. So I very much resonate with what you're thinking, you know, direction. Yeah. Great.

Speaker 2

01:31:39

I have two thoughts that came up once and one on that subject. And, and one kind of general, I just started RVing, two years ago. And so this thought came up with Santa Barbara, it's like, oh, we get hookups. I'll come and visit for a month or two months and help out however I can. But just kind of throwing that out there as a possibility in the RV community that I've connected with mostly over Facebook, it's a friendly bunch. So to some extent, they're already you know, practicing empathy without saying they're practicing empathy. And a lot of people look for a place to, to park for free for a month or so and are willing to work for that free space, or pay minimally for electric and find their own way to work on their tanks on their own or so forth. But that might be especially in with different projects that might need different types of labor temporarily, or whatever. So that's just a possibility. It looks like there's extra space on the property where that might be a possibility.

Edwin Rutsch

01:32:44

Yeah, there is space for something like that. Yeah. What that kind of brought up for me was this empathy tent team, that, you know, forming a team that there's the center is located at kenosis, you know, at this at the center, and like, I haven't, I have a tent, and Bill has a tent, you know, so bill goes out to different events before COVID. So we would take these tents out. So but it's creating a process where we do go to do street level listening. And we have these tents. And I can imagine doing a tour, the empathy tour with the RVs. Right? That it's like empathy. And we go with the empathy tent going around the country offering listening, and sort of spreading the empathy chapters, there's a group called sidewalk talk that does this just empathic listening, you know, street level. And I've worked we've worked with him before, too. And they're, they've sort of, since COVID, is not as active. But we were actually doing it before them too. You know, the whole setting up the tent offering listening at parks, doing conflict mediation, so I just see that as a whole project that could be really developed. And when you say RVs, this is like, perfect, and you got a couple of tents in the RVs. And you just go out and set them up. We just do a whole circle around the country in or something like that. That would be Yeah. It sounds like

Speaker 2

01:34:19

yeah, and a lot of RVs have awning. So you might not even need to set up the tent to just pull the awning out. Yeah, it would be like a tent. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting, because I've thought of at some point, to actually going on the road and talking about peace and seeing where I can talk at libraries, etc. But yeah, fairgrounds that would have that space, you know, look at county fairs, just I mean, just that could keep you busy for a couple years. And the other thing about embodying empathy, I've, again, this is from the same NVC trainer back in 2007, the state coordinator forward suggesting a shortened envies See formula, just getting to empathy and not going to requests as part of the NBC formula. And suggesting that we might practice that. So I've had a weekly empathy buddy, since 2007. And then we added somebody I think, about seven years ago. So we have a Clio. And every so often, we cancel, but it's been pretty consistently weekly. And so a big part of that, too, after practicing that for a while, is the self empathy. So I can see that embodying empathy and actually teaching people self empathy. Like Kathy said, she really loves having this in her schedule, to remind her and to keep her practicing. And that was one of the benefits I saw after a couple of years of regular practice is her I didn't, I didn't think oh, I wish I could call my empathy buddy right now. It's like, okay, let's start practicing self empathy in the moment. And so that it becomes their way of life. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker

01:36:03

That's it for me.

Edwin Rutsch

01:36:06

You know, just jump in anyway, if you have ideas. I'm still really excited about the empathy tent teams, you know, going to festivals, gardens, you know, all these different events as a way of doing the outreach and modeling listening. And I could imagine it going to school boards if there's these conflicts. And also I'd thought of if there's like shootings, that you know, someone gets shot, you set up, take the empathy tent and set it up there and offer listening to people in the neighborhood who are affected, or we have political rallies with the political left and right, that's where, you know, Bill, and I had done a lot with Lou and Dave. And we just listened to both sides. So those are other empathy pen team sort of projects.

Speaker 1

01:36:58

I just knowers Sam Farber is talking. Now 1000s of people there. There's bakeries. And it's just, you know, better than Santa Barbara. And the Fiesta is when we are the year. But I mean, you can go in there and there's gonna be people from LA Orange County, San Diego, San Luis Obispo. It's just crowded. And so there's food and dancing and the parade and then there's the courthouse gathering at night, where it's hundreds and hundreds of people at least around maybe 1000s. So UCSB, we have a stadium, and I'm sure they have you know things there indoor theater, and outdoor gatherings at UCSB. Then there's the sandbar by Library, which I don't think has a great gathering, but and then crystal developing, like gather accounts, which you'd have to have, you know, computers, but then you could sit down at the computers and talk to people internationally and work on just building trust with people. And then you know, children just gonna stop right.

Speaker 2

01:38:55

Yeah, that kinda reminds me what something that's silly had said earlier to looking at all the different resources in the community for more connection. And mentioned a theater group or a couple of theater groups. I just thought wouldn't it be neat for to somehow connect with the theater group and inspire play playwright to write a play that included some kind of selective empathy and, and, and just listening again, I thought what you know, they have those kinds of mysteries that can have two different kinds of endings. Just imagine a play that has some kind of conflict. And then they play out one thing, where, okay, now they sit in an empathy circle. And here's how that plays out. And another thing where somebody commits an act of violence and frustration, and this is how that plays out to really dump and demonstrate the power of empathy.

Speaker 1

01:39:46

Well, no Santa Barbara City College, and then San Marcos High School has the plays, playwrights, that kind of thing. Yeah, I'm not sure if I said that right San Marcos High School. Maybe Santa Barbara. They, there's a high school there.

Speaker 2

01:40:15

And Larry mentioned before having intentional community there, I visited an intentional community for about two years in Indiana that was about a four hour drive away and connected with an organization called the emissaries of divine light that had intentional communities around the world. So that, and there, you know, as I just became aware that that's a challenge in and of itself. And there are a lot of different types of intentional communities. I think they have a national magazine to help people navigate the challenges of intentional community. And yeah, so that would be a whole nother endeavor. But it would be interesting, I think they usually would form with empathy as a key value or, or ticket but different things can happen in that context. But that might be an interesting place to bring empathy tense and to learn more about their process as well.

Edwin Rutsch

01:41:14

Well, it is near La. So that whole film industry storytelling, I think is big down there. I remember when we did the empathy tent, we we set took the empathy tent down the Los Angeles set it up at Los Angeles and the city city center in the city hall. Lon, and it was a big demonstration of anti Trump and then pro Trump folks on the other side of the street. And we set up the tent and invite people to take part and be filmed doing an empathy circle. There are so many people want to take part it's like everybody wants to be in the movies, they're down there as like pretty funny.

Speaker 1

01:41:58

Um, okay, so I have been looking for grants, I found Robert Redford he has a grant I'm producing films on topics that are relevant, like empathy and so you submit it and then you get an award of a certain amount of money for what you did like that would be available world wide you know, it's just going to be published and available everywhere

Bill Filler

01:42:42

so thinking strategically speaking, I think that we might reach out to the artists community offer a free facilitation training. In other words, if you want to have a more of a permanent presence or a project manager, get some people some indigenous Santa Barbara ins and get them involved so that they can take the tent out, you know, fairly regularly to the art festival

Kathy Kidd

01:43:15

Yeah. So you know, we this is a big issue right? We're all white and all over 50 It looks like so how do we diversify? Because that has to be in the seeding of of the of creating the organization

Speaker 1

01:43:34

I was sent out high school all white and it was highly disturbing for me the whole way through grade school and on

Kathy Kidd

01:43:50

well, Santa Barbara is mostly white

Edwin Rutsch

01:43:55

65 white and large Hispanic population and very small other minorities

Kathy Kidd

01:44:05

I'm surprised is that much that's good.

Speaker 1

01:44:10

Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. I would just bring in the schools from LA and take care of that.

Kathy Kidd

01:44:20

I'm talking about the leadership including diversity in the leadership while this is forming it's harder afterwards

Unknown Speaker

01:44:38

I love that idea.

Edwin Rutsch

01:44:46

Yeah, we definitely want a variety of perspectives and cultures and so forth.

Speaker 1

01:44:55

Whatever Priyanka. I mean, been weighing on the road lenders,

Kathy Kidd

01:45:07

lenders, lenders are part of it. But we don't want just one person. We want a mixture of a lot of different cultures interest intersections?

Speaker 1

01:45:24

You know, my brother was he knows everyone.

Bill Filler

01:45:32

I would think that if you reach out to the artistic community, you would naturally get a little bit more diversity there than the general population.

Kathy Kidd

01:45:40

Yeah. So and when when I first came aboard, it's been almost two years now, if there was a lot of diversity, that's what really attracted me also. So it seems to be thinning out and it is mostly white.

Edwin Rutsch

01:46:00

Yeah, the last circle or two training his his kind of shifted, I don't know what the issue is there, because it was very, extremely diverse. So what happened is with you know, I created a LinkedIn event for it that went sort of viral, you know, for the training, and there was actually 7000 people, you know, said going, or something like that. I was like, it was a huge amount. And that really created a really diverse sort of attendees. And then, you know, recently the, there hasn't been that many as many signing up. So it's, I don't know, I am kind of lost there for or what happened, or country to do something about COVID? Yeah. Oh, maybe? Yeah. It's like, if training is gone down in terms of, like, we were, it was really building it was like, we're having as many as 40 people sign up and was like, Oh, how do we sort of manage this, and I thought I was gonna kind of grow exponentially. And then it's kind of really gone down to like, 15 is the last cohort. So I think, you know, maybe people are we don't have the COVID. You know, people staying home we? Yeah, I don't know, that's, that's just some of the thoughts. I don't know what.

Speaker 1

01:47:36

Oh, she knew. I mean, I know, it was like connecting with me at some point. And I do wonder, we need to do a sliding scale for people in Africa. And South and Central America, the cause of actually, not to mention, you know, the Arabic countries with everything that's going on. But I don't think we're gonna get them without the sliding scale part.

Edwin Rutsch

01:48:16

We don't have a sliding scale, if there was no fee for taking the training before, but then we'd get a bunch of people who would sign up and they wouldn't follow through, they just wouldn't show up. So I thought, well, let's, you know, have a registration fee made it $30. And then it's donation beyond that. And the $30 was optional. And a lot of people actually, they just say, I can't afford it. And so you just say we just waive that so but they have to we make it an option. So it's totally free, if you know, people can afford it. So it's, I think that's not the issue. Could be maybe lowering it to 20 or something for the registration. So it's maybe 30 Seems like a bit of a barrier to some people. But I think we do need something there for commitment, because it's a lot of work to sign people up. And then they don't show up. And I mean, it happens happen quite a bit. I think it's been better with the registration, or at least if they don't show up, you feel like well, at least they, you know, they contributed something for the time we put into vetting does a lot of vetting takes place to email them. You know, there's a back and forth to explain things to him. So that's something reduced the cost a little bit.

Kathy Kidd

01:49:37

Yeah. Well, we also don't like have an outreach team. So like, I haven't seen Dwayne in a while, you know, so is there is there a team that reaches out to people that were coming and then in art coming like BJ when I saw her in the training, I hadn't seen her for a long time. So maybe maybe that would be be helpful.

Speaker 1

01:50:00

I think there was like some kind of disagreement between DJ and Dwayne and some other person, because I'm hearing all this stuff from Crystal. But it concerns me about the how people are not getting along with one another in an empathy, culture MC group. And it's mind boggling. Because we,

Kathy Kidd

01:50:34

yeah, that's gonna happen anywhere, Sally, happen anywhere?

Edwin Rutsch

01:50:38

Well, we have a process to for talking to people, you know, people sometimes, you know, conflict happens if I'm aware, but I reach out and I say, let's have an empathy circle, we've sort of mediated multiple circles, you know, around that. But yeah, having I think, you know, putting a position I just had outreach team position. So, you know, it's not, it's, it's more like, hey, if I'm worried about this, if people are worried about I think Jana mentioned that, it's like, here's a role for you, here's a position, you know, take the responsibility. So it's like, who's going to take responsibility, have a position, you know, people take responsibility, and also, in terms of people being in conflict, within the circle within the training and stuff, it's been pretty good. We've had a process, we can't deal with people's personal issues outside. But we do like I think you're talking Kathy, about having a center for you got conflict, you come to the, the, the Wellness Center, and you have a space there for kind of working out your personal issues. So I think that's a good idea to

Kathy Kidd

01:51:50

well, I'm going to reach out to Dwayne because that just now, in our talking realize hadn't seen similar while I mean, I remembered it, and then I forgot it. And then now I haven't seen him for a while. So I'm going to reach out to him. Maybe if we all reach out to people from other cultures that we know, have we haven't seen for a while maybe that we had a connection with maybe that will, you know, let us know what's going on. Yeah. And

Edwin Rutsch

01:52:15

there's also, you know, we're encouraging people to set up their own trainings, too. So there's, there is a group in Italy that Gabrielle there, and then I know Dwayne has been helping there. So, you know, it's, it's also we're not doing everything in house. So we're glad to support people and promote her event and stuff. So,

Kathy Kidd

01:52:36

but Dwayne was really involved.

Edwin Rutsch

01:52:39

Yeah, he'd be good to get would be excellent. Well, anyway, we've got four minutes left, want to keep us on track. Thanks, everyone, for taking part, maybe we just have, you know, next week is the next one, invite friends, I'm going to, I haven't promoted the circles these to the larger, you know, our email list of 600 resources, sort of ease into it, by going to start promoting it kind of bring people from the training into the, you know, taking part and we're just kind of keep these going. I love all the ideas. I've been taking copious notes here. So that's me. Any kind of a final comments, Bill?

Bill Filler

01:53:26

No, I really enjoyed this. I love the ideas and seeing, I would say that I noticed also when the registration, although I really think it's a valid fee, the you know, seeing all the work that you do. But that's when the attendance went down. And I know we have a sliding scale and things like that. But for some reason, people aren't maybe not reading that way. I think diversity doesn't always look like diversity. I was thinking about, you know, sometimes like, um, you know, if people are, you know, gay or people are, you know, this or that, that that's another aspect of diversity. And the other thing is, I think we have to be careful as white people reaching out to and I don't think Kathy's doing this. I'm not saying that Kathy has a good relationship with Dwayne. Yeah. And so that's not what I'm talking about. But I have been in a lot of sensitivity trainings, where my feedback was, I sort of just treated people like individuals, and they appreciated, not me treating them as my idea of a black person. And so just saying, Oh, who are you so not treating people of certain culture as sort of monolithic or based upon my preconceptions or generalizations about them. So I find that, you know, I've gotten a lot of feedback that way. Yeah, that's it.

Edwin Rutsch

01:54:50

All right, Larry.

Larry Lawhorn

01:54:53

Keep coming back. works if you work, and you're worth it.

Edwin Rutsch

01:54:57

Okay, Sally.

Speaker 1

01:55:00

Um, yeah, I'm working with a group in Rusinga in Ireland, in the well, Lake, Victoria, Kenya. And well, anyway, he said, Where is the empathy circle? The leader of Dino Cheatham. And so I want to get him on board. So we can progress.

Bill Filler

01:55:32

Okay, great. I have to go see All right,

Edwin Rutsch

01:55:34

CML. Aaron.

Speaker 2

01:55:38

Glad to be here. I look forward to the unfolding in the news about everything. Thank you. All right. Thanks,

Edwin Rutsch

01:55:42

Kathy. Final word.

Kathy Kidd

01:55:45

Ditto. Thank you all. It's

Edwin Rutsch

01:55:46

been fun. Alrighty, see you tomorrow. Bye. Bye.

Unknown Speaker

01:55:52

Thank you, everyone. Bye bye.

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