Melissa Sanger is a womb which guiding women to the power of their menstrual cycle and sexual energy. She came to this work having had no period in three years, which took her on a life changing journey around Latin America, where she worked with plant medicines and shamans, to bring her fertility and femininity back to her. She now works with women all over the world, to help them connect their wombs and the wisdom it holds by weaving my womb massage, ritual and coaching, to empower them to have incredible sex relationships with their partners, and most importantly, themselves. Welcome, Melissa.
Thank you.
I am so fascinated by the womb wisdom that you talk about. And I think a way into this conversation in a way that a lot of women now have an understanding of, at least superficially, is this term cyclical living. And I guess I have a familiarity that there is, you know, four phases to our menstrual cycle. And each phase, carrying a different sort of energy that we can tap into. I want to make sure that my listeners also have that understanding, I'd love you to explain it to us. But I'm really intrigued to learn how you apply it practically, because that's a step that I haven't been able to take the sort of learning principles to, to that step further about, about applying it to my real life. So I'd love to learn how, how you've done it, and maybe give us a recap into what the four phases are, and which what kind of energy each phase holds for us.
Yeah, so I think the most important word thing to start with is that the cyclical living will look different for every person. So I feel like when I teach in my online school, I teach that like this is, these are the archetypes, this is the kind of vibe, this is the energy and then I invite you to find your own flavour with it. So in that way, the way that someone experiences ovulation is going to be different for every person. And I think the beauty of the feminine that I try and invite people into is like, the uniqueness and that every day is different. And every cycle is different. And for sure, like, like nature, we have the seasons we have the summer, but no summer is the same. And no winter is the same. Sometimes there's snow, sometimes there's not sometimes it's cold, sometimes it's not that cold. But like there's a general energy of winter that we can all relate to. But I think it's important to start with sharing that like I'm not sure I'm not prescribing a prescription of like, this is how you should be cyclical. And this is how every room keeper woman experiences a cycle because it's unique. And I think that's really where the menstrual cycle mastery comes in. Because once you receive this wisdom as a transmission as information, then you take that as research for your own cycle. So then every cycle you begin to observe, like, oh, how is this archetype? Or how is my inner spring feeling this cycle? And how does my inner Soma feel my ovulation feel. And then you start to kind of that's where the, the self intimacy and the self discovery comes where you get to really know yourself. And when I when I teach more in depth about the menstrual cycle, I notice that yeah, that uniqueness is really strong, for example. I really like to rest and go deep, deep, deep into my own space and not talk on my moon time. And just be within myself and very little physical energy. But I have a client who loves to teach in her meantime, you know, like the everybody and for me, that would be the worst thing that I'd want to do. Like it's like the day that I really don't want to talk. But she feels so connected to her magic and so connected to her intuition and and that's something that feels right for her. So, as I shared this blueprint, I also want you to feel like more curious about your own cycle. So it's like a attunement to your own cycle that you can feel who you are as a cyclical person, woman. But having said that, I do think sharing the the general idea is helpful or a starting point. So we have in a spring, which is, which is the firt? Well, it's often easier for people to start with menstruation. So following menstruation, you have in a spring, which is about seven days, it's about a week, but it depends on your cycle. Because again, every cycle is different lengths and different timeframes. So it's about a week, and in the spring is literally just like spring, it's the time when your energy is slowly slowly slowly rising. So in that time, when you think about spring in nature, I'm talking more like a northern hemisphere vibe, where it's like very for very different seasons. But when you go from the beak winter into the spring, it's not just suddenly, like you look outside and it's green, and there's animals and it's like, dynamic outside, it's, it's actually a slow blues, while not even blooming, but it's a slow rebirth thing and blossoming and, and the blooming really happens in summer. So I take my wisdom from this in the best way that I can from nature in that I think the most important thing to share with this phase is the slowness in which you blossom. So that comes into the cyclical living. So what can be really common as I finish my period, okay, let's go I'm gonna do my to do list I'm gonna go when you go. And then quite often, you burn out very quickly, or you feel kind of depleted in your ovulation. So it's that like slow incline up the mountain at a steady level. And within this season phase, I think it's quite obviously, it's a circle. So I can come back to this. But the main aspect of Moon time is to rest and to, to rest your physical body, but your intuitive mind is quite active. So in that phase, it's it's a beautiful opportunity to receive insights and to receive downloads and to receive alignment and ideas for your next coming cycle your future cycle. So I'll come back to that. But having said that, you've received maybe one insight or a few insights. But I recommend to just take in terms of like a business or in terms of creative, creative pursuits, to take one strong idea. And then in the in the spring, you're working slowly on beginning to execute that. So planning, beginning structure, kind of like doing the to do list things. But that's kind of as I said, slow, so not immediately, but adding little bits in doing things like graphics doing things like Canva work like graphic work, like doing the creating and and the planning and the strategy. With the idea that in your ovulation is when you can birth something is when your body is most primed to be in the radiance, or the exhibition of something. And sometimes you can't do all the things you need to do in in one week. So maybe you take it through two cycles. But the idea is that say it was one cycle that you take it up into your ovulation. And then your ovulation is the best time for you or in general for your body and your brain and your hormones are primed to communicate to socialise to be with other people, you have the most physical energy. And this science shows that during your MS inner spring as your as your oestrogen levels are rising, your communication centres in your brain are more active. And oestrogen in general is quite a social hormone. It creates the identity of feeling like you want to connect, you want to communicate and you want to socialise and on a biological level, that's literally because our body is like prepared to meet it's looking to mate. It's like a very primal instinct. But we can use that in a modern way in that using that like dynamic energy. To plan and then to go out and speak, or do a podcast or launch an event, or have the amazing party that you are planning, or these kinds of like big social events. And yeah, it's supported in our brain with the communication with these parts of our brain being more active. But then also, physically, we have I mean oestrogen and testosterone rising, which gives us sort of physical energy. So it's a really great time for you to kind of be in that, you know, doing doing mode. It's the most Yang aspect of our cycle. And some people, when they hear this might feel like, oh, but mine, I don't feel Yang or I don't feel this. So really, if our hormones are balanced, and healthy, you should feel Yang in this time. What can happen, as I already mentioned, if people don't rest during min time, or they rush that inner spring, then they won't feel Yang in this time. And Yang is another go, I feel that most people know what Yang is. But if you don't, then it's like, the more kind of active the more proactive the dynamic the in some ways you can say the more masculine energy, it's like the doing energy. And then, and it's like putting energy out. And then Yin is the opposite, which has like receptive and more, the depths and the quiet. And in some ways, you can see the feminine, but I feel like we have parts of auth or both of them in different moments, especially in our cycle. So the most Yin would be met administration and the most Yang would be ovulation. And what a lot of people don't know and I didn't know is that.
Yeah, before I knew any of this stuff, I just thought that I had a menstruation. I thought it just like rocked up, I didn't really have an awareness of like, any part of my cycle. And when I started to study more, the science and the spirit of the menstrual cycle, the spiritual, the science and the mystical. I discovered and understood that ovulation is the main event of your menstrual cycle, and that you wouldn't menstruate without ovulation. So we often think menstruation is the main event, but it wouldn't occur without ovulation. So ovulation is the main event. And ovulation is super important for our health, for our longevity, for our bones for like all the functions of our body, the hormones that are needed to create ovulation, or to create the event of ovulation are so so important for a whole long term health. And so having a healthy ovulation is integral for our long term health regularly. And yes, it's the inner summer. It's like the rose blooming, it's the radiance, it can be our most magnetic time. It can be our most sexually active time that we feel just like confident and feel. Yeah, we feel sexy and sensual. And yeah, there are many beautiful things I've already mentioned that you can sort of create an event and speak or so it's a beautiful time to work with self pleasure with your body with lovemaking like to really open yourself up, because your whole body is biologically primed for connection for intimacy for orgasm for sex, and obviously for procreation as well. So I feel like I'm talking really fast. Do you have any questions before I continue to the next part of the cycle?
What struck me was also not only is like ovulation really good for our health, but it's a sign of good health inverse. You know, when we when our bodies are ovulating regularly, it is a byproduct of us being in good physical health. So we're only going to ovulate when we are our body feels confident about its ability to procreate and create life and there's only going to be enough spare energy for that if we are abundant in in energy. So I think there's that there's that there's a lovely relationship to both ovulation being good for us but also it being a reflection on our overall on our overall state of health as well.
Yeah, any I'm just If I can find it really quickly, but there's an amazing there's an amazing book. Oh, my, my laptop is propped on it. It's called. Period. Okay. You see? Oh, it's not that. Okay. It's by Laura Bryden. It's called period something. It's been Oh, there it is. Period repair manual. And it's full of clinical research. She's a herbalist. She's a naturopath and it's full of like 15 years of studies of her clients of, like, yeah, both scientific and herbalist and sort of holistic ways of healing every symptom under the sun that you could think of around your pelvis. So like, ovary things, things like, you know, cysts and fibroids, and Period Pain and cystic acne and all the things it's amazing. It's it's, it's quite factual, but I find it a really good resource. And she is an incredible beacon of research and knowledge on like feminine health. I do feel like that book could probably be updated now. Like, I feel like in the last few years, we've come a long way with research of feminine hormone health because most studies were based on men back in the day. So now I think only now we're starting to do more studies on on female bodies because it is complicated, like, do you do the study? In what part of the cycle you'd have different results like it's so varied? So she has another another amazing article? I think it was on her website about the importance of of ovulation every month, and and how people don't really know that and compare it like when people decide to take the pill or to don't really care about the ovulation, they don't understand the importance of it. And she talks about like, what actually what are the results of ovulating every month in your body? And she calls it like, specific and find it here. Yeah, each and every monthly dose of progesterone, which is the hormone that we need to in autumn in our luteal phase premenstrual phase is like a deposit into the bank of long term health. It builds bone and metabolic reserve to carry us through all the decades after menopause. That's why it's so important to ovulate while we can during our reproductive years, decades, and not to shut it down with hormonal birth control. And she goes on to list like all of the different health benefits of ovulation and the hormones required for that. So yeah, it's it has effects on on bones on brain house on heart health, on breast health, so many things. So yeah, super important. And I think it's important for us as women to reclaim that our fertility rights, you know,
as part of that, they're just I think there needs to be a conversation with each person if to really go into whether birth control is something that they want to use, I think that's been really missing. There's nothing wrong with birth control, per se. However, I don't think that conversations have really, truly been had around. So informed consent hasn't really been a big feature of the decision making about whether somebody does want to go on hormone or hormonal birth control. So they haven't really fully understood what the pros and cons are all the benefits of ovulating every month, maybe what the benefits of actually getting to know ourselves through the through our cyclical patterns. There's a lot that we've been missing, and we just kind of reached for birth control to manage almost every ailment that we had with our menstrual cycle or or, or periods. And that just I think that does seem as though there's been a big disservice there. Which I'm grateful to You see a sort of shift in the tide. I know that Davina McCall just did a big documentary looking at this, which I think is just put the issue in the forefront and in the mainstream, which I am glad to have seen. And that's really important.
Yeah, I actually did an amazing podcast episode with Dr. Cassandra Wilder on my podcast, like two years ago about the shocking thing gets called the shocking shocking effects or something like this, or birth control. And she goes into the long list of repercussions on your body, the science. And her perspective, the science is so blatant of like, the long, long, long, long, long, long, long list of of repercussions, what's the word for repercussions they use in the medical system side effects. They're not really side effects, they're lifelong repercussions. I think that's a really interesting terminology that they use there. Because yeah, the the repercussions are strong. And what's also common is that people tried to then come off with birth control. And then they have even more repercussions like, it can take some time to get your hormones back on track. And it can take some time, if people want to become, you know, have children and be pregnant, it can take years, or maybe it in some cases, it takes not like you know, a few months, but in a lot of cases, it takes years and devotion and naturopaths and herbs and diet changes and like a lot of work. And really I think I do agree with you know, informed consent. And also, I feel like there's so many more better options for women to be in tune with their cycle and to be sovereign with their body and not needing to take a pill that kind of deletes their ovulation deletes their femininity, and creates a body that exists in a masculine world, which is really what we become men, when we take that we become like the hormonal, like a kind of symbol of another masculine in a way, because we're not cyclical. And that's not our true nature. And so I'm really passionate about fertility awareness method. I've been paid to seeing that for a couple of years now. And I find it so empowering. Because it comes down to me and my intimacy with my body. And a, I think it's 98.4% effective. And a condom is only 99%. Effective. So when used correctly. So yeah, it's 98.4%. You, I forget the scientific term, or the official term, but when used correctly, like not missing a day of something, or whatever. And I find this super, super powerful because you get to tune into the bio signals of your body. And it's like, again, they tune it to yourself, and then there are no side effects. There are literally zero. And all it does is create a deeper relationship with yourself and create like, that self empowerment and the choice to to be vibrant and fertile in your own body.
Yeah, it's an it's a, it's a method. I also I, I haven't never really shared this before, but I was I had the my Rena in for many years. Yeah, me too. Actually, I use that. For more than 10 years, I think I was I used that. And for me, at that phase of my life, it was the it was the best option for me. Each of my life. However, I was I did, I sort of started to learn a little bit about cyclical living, I was hearing more and more about it and I became more intrigued and I realised how disconnected I had become, to my own cycle. I didn't know if I had one at all, you know, so I had been hiding or masking it for for over a decade. And so it's been a really lovely reconnection with self to actually, as you say, you said use the natural natural cycle method. I've found it a really a really lovely way to get to know myself and actually breed confidence and trust in my body's ability to, to, to cycle and so on. Yeah, it's been a process that I've very much embraced what I haven't been able to do, however, and I would love to know how you do this and then schedule your life around the phases of your cycle. Because as we speak today, I felt particularly depleted. And I know because I do track my own cycle that I'm around ovulation. And so I wasn't expecting, expecting to feel so depleted. But having had this conversation already, and hearing how, I guess, you know, I would, you know, if I was living in tune with my cycle more, I guess, the last week would have been a little bit calmer, and it certainly wasn't, I definitely have been burning all of the candles. And so I guess it's no surprise that I find myself totally and utterly depleted around ovulation. So I don't really I don't get this right. And I would love to know how you apply what you know. To to harness the energy and your natural energy. Sure, when you have it.
Yeah, for sure. I feel like I want to start by saying that it's definitely not perfect. And I do also burn my candle low, often. Not always, but sometimes it happens. And I feel
Yeah, I think it for me, it's important to me to be aware that I am not living in a masculine hormone body. And in that case, understanding that the world is structured, and we are conditioned in a masculine hormone world, where we show up every day, we work the same every day, we work five days a week, or whatever we do to do this every day, we do things every day. And for me, it's been such a deep, and I, I feel like I've got such a long way to go. But it's been such a deep and relearning of rest. And I find that so challenging. And still, I've noticed if I don't create rest, life creates rest for me, through illness through circumstances through like shock traumas through things that just cause me to just stop. And I understand that. It's like, impeccable discipline to create time for rest. And so that means, like not being on Instagram, and like, it's not resting for me if I sit if I'm on my moon, and I'm just like, on my phone, even if I'm physically not doing anything like activating my mind by or filling my mind with so much sound and noise by being on Instagram by being on whatever platform by scrolling. And it is addictive. So I feel like it's such a hard fight, like the way that the world has been set up is not to support this. And I think the number one empowering thing that I like to do, obviously, this is my work. So I'm just like, emanating as a beacon of this and in my integrity of that the people around me know where I am in my cycle. So my partner knows where I am all the time. I've explained to him all about the cycle. He knows how to support me in each phase. He knows like what kind of energy levels I have. In my menstruation, he tries to support me the best with my dog with food with like physical things. In my YouTube face, he gives me more space so that I can take care of myself and I work with my own. A lot of my work is like working with emotional alchemy. So I take space in my payments over time and I like move through my emotions with self responsibility. So I feel like and then sometimes it's not perfect. But within that it's like okay, my friends know where I am and my cycle my work colleagues know where I'm on my cycle. My whole business is built on this. And my, my family, my mom and my dad like they know I will tell them this is very mad and this is what I need. So within that that creates the structure for me to relax more. And sometimes your other friend is also going to be in her own time at the same time. I mean, you're both just like men. And then sometimes someone else will be an ovulation and then they can step up and support you in that moment when you have less physical reserves. So it's like how you relate to all the people around you who are men and women who can step in at different moments of your cycle to support your innate natural flow. And that has been a really empowering step for me. And also just being really honest about it. Like, for example, now I'm back with my parents for a little bit in England. And my mom's going through menopause. And she, she understands the cycle through me. But she never lived cyclical living when she was actually bleeding. And even a couple of times in my bleed, she'll be like, I'll be like, No, I don't want to do that I'm leading on No, I don't want to clean up, it's not my moment to tidy up, or I don't want to cook. And they say it with love. And even sometimes I noticed her kind of feeling like the sense of like, oh, but you're, you're not contributing, or you're not, you're being lazy or whatever. And I will, in the best way that I can communicate, this is not my moment to do those things. In other moments of my cycle, I will clean I will cook I'll do the things. But right now I can't it's a full body No. And like really, really, unapologetically honouring that. And of course, with that level of self respect, she eventually respects me too. And understands it's a slow kind of understanding process from the people around us. But I think the more you embody what you really need, then the easier it gets for other people, if you keep changing and like being like, no, but I do need this. But actually, no, it's fine. I'll do the cooking, I'll do the cleaning, and then you push yourself. And that's not clear communication. So I feel like there's that's a whole topic in itself, how to share that with the people around you. And then yeah, I think it really comes to the ways in which you rest in your most in times. And then how I structure my life. Yeah, I think. Yeah, it is challenging, because as I said, most people work every day. And most people work and they're constantly doing and creating. And it's taking a breath and retracting yourself from what everyone else is doing, and just being in your own cyclical rhythm. So I know that it's not sustainable for me to do to work every single day in my inner spring, because I know that it will make me depleted. And so it's like how I plan my month with the awareness of my of my sexual creative energy. And that's why I say, to only take one thing through your cycle, because I don't think we actually really have the sexual creative energy, the hormone energy to create multiple things a cycle sustainably. So yeah, in that ovulation time, as we kind of got halfway so in the ovulation time, also, physically, it's a great time to do physical exercise to do more cardio, but also from my understanding and my perspective, and the science behind this is that we're not made to work out throughout a whole cycle. So I'm not a super like I don't exercise that much in this moment of my life, but I have another moments. But I would highly not recommend to do any kind of physical exercise in your in a winter and your moon time. Like that is the time for complete rest. And then as you get closer to your ovulation, you can bring in more cardio you can bring a more movement, you can bring in more like dynamic body stuff. And then we move into inner autumn. And this is the time of so you've lost in this big thing and in nature, you then see how that beautiful radiant offering of nature becomes to like starts to fall away it starts to become the autumn the leaves start to fall and they enter the earth and they start to go into the compost for the next cycle. So in a business life perspective, this is the time really I teach in an autumn in two phases. So you have the first half of your inner autumn, which the whole end in autumn is about 10 days to two weeks, and the first half of the inner autumn is a bit more firing, you still have like a lot of like Kalief fire like, kind of energy like I can do things and I can clean and I can. It's kind of like a fun little fire explosion. If your hormones are healthy, and then the second half of your premenstrual your luteal is like, you start to enter your cave, like you're, you get a little bit more sensitive, you start to get physically less energy, and you start to prepare yourself to enter your cave. So in the best ways that I can, I will finish all the things that I need to do for my cycle, for my month for my menstrual cycle, in that first fiery part of in autumn, and the really important thing for me is as a as an independent business owner, as the director of my business to actually outsource. So for me, I think it's also impossible to be a one lead woman business like that feels exhausting. So outsource if I have like not to push my energy to them it in that fiery in autumn phase, but like outsource to other people to an assistant, even if it's like a couple of hours of paid work like to complete whatever it needs to be. And then that prepares for the second half of an autumn in which we can start to nest and start to clear the space. Like to start to put the To Do Lists away just start to enter our own cocoon.
I didn't work during that part of my phase, like the whole, like the very very end of my premenstrual luteal phase up until maybe day five depends on what's happening in my life. But around one week I take off of like client work and showing up in the world. Maybe I do a few little things behind the scenes on my laptop or something but like in terms of like physically sharing my energy and like showing up for clients and, and creating things with an outward energy, I clear my schedule of that. I don't do any client work during my moon time. That's like a hard no for me. And, and yeah, this this idea also, just before I go into my moon time I try and do all the things that I can get done. Like, if I need to clean my sheets, or change my bedsheets, I'll do that before my moon. If I need to tidy something, I'll do that beforehand, if I need to prep some food or do it before my moon. But I need like anything physical that I need to do, I'll get it try and get it done before I enter my room so that when I'm in my meantime, I can just relax, it can be still I can be in bed, I can be in my moon cave, I can listen to my intuition, I can create space. So kind of the idea of of that last luteal phase in autumn phase is to create as much space as they can, so that I can just surrender into the wisdom of my meantime.
While I'm hearing a lot of discipline and planning needs to go in, in place, but I'm also really hearing the sort of natural framework that can really helping being productive. But if you do sort of if you do manage to give yourself the time and space to relax fully in your moon time, then you're going to get the creative sparks that you can work with. I guess if you don't give yourself that time, you're not going to connect with your intuition you're not going to get the value of from that time. Which then you can sort of slowly plant the seeds for sort of drop your plan, drop a strategy in your inner spring. Go and share that with the world, in your in your summertime. And then wrap things up out sore spots left, tie it together in your autumn so that you can you can really go into feeling supported and able to actually fully relax.
Yeah, that was a that was a really beautiful little summary. And I think sometimes people might if it's so new for them, they might feel like how do I drop in during my moon time like what does that even look like practically? And I have I think I have an amazing podcast good. reverent menstruation on my podcast is called fundamental feminine wisdom and a showing that how to create A moon cave, like what tools you need, what it looks like? It might just be like something simple as like, maybe drawing a few oracle cards or journaling, like, what am I letting go off this month? And then what am I stepping into this next cycle, like it just just as many space of reflection. And yeah, like really tuning in every month, it's like a pulse within your feminine body in which you, like, let everything fall away, and we really enter like a spiritual mini death. And then we enter a rebirth, every single cycle, we get the opportunity to rebirth, a new version of ourself with new wisdom, with new aspects of ourselves. And, also, I have a lot of amazing room meditations so that when you're bleeding, you can tune into your womb, and like, connect your blood and receive wisdom of like, what you're letting go and what you're stepping into. And then yeah, work with my guidance to release and let go and like, really tune into your body wisdom. So the most. For me, the most important piece of that is like the meditation practices that I use in those pockets of my moon cave. And, yeah, the way that I tune into the wisdom is through meditating with my body, with my womb with my breath, and asking my body, my womb, Life, the Universe, like the insights and opening myself to receive the insights that I need for this bleed for this next cycle.
It's very intentional, that using you using this, using this space very intentionally, and in doing so, and also having a structure around how to manage that idea, inch by inch, brings you closer every month to creating and being something fourth in the world that we can very often stampede over, if we just continue to go, go, go, go.
Yeah, that creates a lot of disease. If we just go Go, go go.
It it does, it does, and depletion, which I have to admit I'm experiencing right now.
I think a lot of women do a lot of women, especially people that use Instagram, and tick tock or whatever else like as that business out that the app is set up as like in a solo rhythm in a masculine rhythm of like every day, all the time. And it's hard.
And I'm thinking about my colleagues, you know, people who, even if they're not self employed, they're, they're expected to show up every every day for work. And it's not going to be possible for everyone to totally clear their schedule for a week, every month, but I guess how you can apply that to your own circumstances would be as examples to clear your social, your social calendar during that time, so that when you do have time off, you are able to have more rest time built into your month, intentionally clearing some time to actually rest rather than going to go out and meet a friend for a drink. Or, or you'd be the you'd be the one to stay home while your partner might take your kid to the party. That's no, there's things that you can actually do just to clear some time that you that you can create for yourself and prioritise you in those moments, because those are the times that you need you so that you can then have the energy to go out in the world, which is possible for three out of the four weeks. So there are ways that we can tweak this framework to to help ourselves bring in a bit more feminine and tear into what is a very masculine world.
Yeah, I think with that, it's it's like I don't I mean, I've gone through phases of frustration and anger and all those things about the masculine world. But now I don't feel that I just feel like my like, I'm responsible for myself. And that's it. So it's like I can I take myself out in the best ways that I can have that framework and create a framework that is honouring my body and true to me and actually, resources me and revitalises me and is the truth of my hormones. So I feel like education from a compassionate heart, with the people around us. Like, the communication in which we share this with people around us is so important. And how we communicate, do we communicate with love, or like you're not supporting me and whatever, like anger, or is it with love, and like requests, and like speaking, communicating with the people around us, like, from a soft place from a loving place, I think is, is also key. And something that we need to practice as the feminine because I don't feel any human, let alone the masculine responds to like. Like that kind of passive or angry or you're not doing enough kind of communication. And I think really, when we choose to embody this is who I am, that everyone else around us starts to respond naturally anyway.
I really hearing hearing how you describe this journey, I'm just drawn to thinking of the maiden mother queen energy that the journey that you you have seen, seemingly embarked on, which is less, you know, which moves us from, you know, wanting to be moving us through our through our journey of self responsibility, ultimately, but then also responsibly communicating what you need unapologetically, without that. And that takes a lot of inner work, clarity, of responsibility, self respect, self worth, boundaries, learn how to communicate those boundaries, there's so many elements to that, that we have often not been taught, as women to do. And when you talk and see how you've communicated your needs to your family. You know, my body clenched, when I heard that, because I just realised how hard I would find that, though, you know, I would find that really, really challenging because the conditioning has been very deep. And I judge myself for feeling tired, I get very frustrated at myself for feeling tired and needing rest. So I think, you know, there's a lot that we trample over. And it's to our own depth detriment that we do, but learning the skills to fully embody who we are, as cyclical beings, and make space for rest and allowing it, these are skills that I feel really quite inspired to take into my life moving forward.
Yeah, and something I'm exploring now, which is, like, come more into my awareness now is like, what it means for me to rest and what that really looks like. And I think in some ways I would rest but still have some thing, one part of me attached to like listening or learning or like something something. And now I'm trying to like listening to music or, like filling, always filling. And now I'm trying to practice like going on a walk in complete silence, or having my morning meditation in complete silence, like where do I create spaces for like, for me now rest is for sure having long naps and like resting my physical body, but it's also like creating pockets of silence where I can listen and not have internal input to my brain that I can just like be with myself and nature and and rest my brain as well.
Yeah, what is rest, as you mentioned, like so often, we can confuse rest with scrolling, watching, watching television, listening to podcast, learning, reading. I am so guilty of that. So
can you have that? Yeah, me too.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a training but I'm kind of increasingly curious about I guess experimenting And what would it feel like to allow total rest? What would it feel like to allow periods of silence? Well, what could What could that feel like? So that's, yeah, I'm getting inspired.
Yeah, like resting your brain and your body. Hmm.
I see your brain and your body. Yeah, yeah. Yep. And that I guess it's in those periods of rest that your spirit can start to be heard. They start to, you can really tune into your intuition because there's a space within all the noise that you can actually start to build that build relationship with with that part of yourself that's so quiet. And we can miss totally, if we if we bombard ourselves with the, with the noise and distraction that we so often do. You mentioned that you sort of use these terms interchangeably. Earlier on in this conversation around creative energy and sexual energy. And these being at their peak at around ovulation. And I'm just curious at what the link is there creative energy, sexual energy. And the work you do now, I suppose in really allowing women to harness that sexual energy. And I'd love you to share with us what you've learned on this new path that you're carving for yourself that really focuses on on liberating that sexual energy, using it, harnessing it tell me more?
Yeah. Yeah, so as he kind of mentioned to you off call that my work really started with the menstrual cycle, rapid reclamation, and also because my own journey was losing my period. I can, I've have and can support many women with getting their period back, were getting their fertility back. And, and then another side of my journey came through and blossomed over the last four or five years has been my sexual awakening. And that started through grace, really, because my first first way into this work was actually in Ecuador, in I think I've talked about this with you before. In Ecuador. I did a tantra yoga teacher training. And the Tantra Yoga I was doing was, was not anything sexual, actually, like the yogic practices. Within Tantra. There's the philosophy, there's the yoga, there's the mantra, there's the sexual practice, there's the so many aspects and yoga is one of them. I think in the modern day world, we see tent Neo Tantra is just like something just about sexuality. But classical Tantra is a whole Yeah, I mean, near Tantra, with the more like sexual relationship part came through in 1970. So it's quite new. And classical Tantra is more like four plus 1000 years old, four or five, 6000 years old, and it holds like whole philosophy, a whole path, different aspects of a spiritual path. And, yeah, I felt like when I did that training, we did do we touched a little bit on the sexuality. And I and I talked about this beautiful couple all the time that they were a beautiful couple, and they were in it. They don't know if they said this, but it was like they were in a tantric relationship, exploring 10 tantric sexuality. They were on the yoga training together. And they just really opened up my world around so many things like that men can have orgasms without ejaculation, that you can have synchronised orgasm or that tantric sex about like other states of consciousness through sex. And yeah, I just sat with them for hours talking and asking questions and receiving and like, infusing and all of this. And to be honest, I didn't really understand everything that they were saying, but it was just like, Yes, tell me more. Like, yes, I want to know that like, that is where I want to go. And from my own perspective, I had a very sort of complicated relationship with my sexuality and a lot of trauma in my teenage years for sexuality and my Yeah, just before that training i A few years before that, I'd broken up with my last partner boyfriend really And, and, and in that relationship my sexuality just dwindled. Like I lost. I was actually on the Mirena coil during then that time and things like, what's it called? Things like depression medication, anxiety medication, the pill, the marina, cool, they all deplete mostly your sex drive. But I didn't know that at the time. And then also our connections actually was just so like, he had a very strong porn addiction. And he was often treating my body in that way, and treating me like, almost like a porn star in many ways. And it really, really traumatised me. And at the end of that relationship, I decided to go on a period of celibacy. And I was just, yeah, after the relationship we stopped having during the relationship, sorry, we stopped having sex. And I actually convinced myself and I think he tried to convince me that, that I was asexual that I didn't actually like sex. And there was, there was something up with me. And I took on that identity for a while, I really, really didn't like sex, and I couldn't connect my own pleasure. And I'd never had an internal orgasm. I very rarely had a clitoral orgasm with someone else. With him. I never had one. And so there was something going on deeper. But then I remember feeling like deep in my soul, and I don't know where this came from. But just like, I know that there's more, they can know that their sacredness, like sometimes I would try and look in his eyes and like connect and like, be like in that kind of spirit realm or spirit connection, even though I didn't have a word or language for that. He just wasn't ready. And so after that, I yeah, I had a couple of like post relationship hookups that made everything even worse for me. And I just remember the last one that I had, after my walk of shame, I was like, and it was like a super drug fueled kind of not sacred experience for me. And I remember I walked away from that, and I was like, I know there's more to sex than this. Like, this is not what I want. And I decided in that moment, I'm going to be celibate, and work on my own sexual energy. So in Tantra, there's there's another form of celibacy called Brahmacharya. Which is where you work. You don't really connect with other people. But you work with your own sexual energy like the Yoni egg with sublimation to learning how to move sexual energy up and through your body. And started to connect with my own pleasure, but not sharing it with anyone else. And yeah, it was kind of just led on this journey have ended up being three years and three months of actually, being just intimate with myself. And I never planned that. It was hard. It was challenging. It was like, so deep. And within that journey, I devoted myself to my unprecedented sexual awakening. I started to do Tantra trainings, I started to learn about Taoism, which is from China Tantra is from India. Taoism is from ancient China. I started to I did a six week initiation with Taoism and tantric masters in Costa Rica. I just like fully immersed myself in my own sexual awakening, and realise that the block to my own pleasure was so many traumas that happened in my childhood. And so I started this process of reclaiming my body after an eating disorder after trauma and all of these things. Reclaiming my sense, my body my pleasure. And through many different practices and initiations and devotion, I awoke within me. Someone who is completely different to the woman or the girl really who thought she was asexual. Like someone who can experience full body multiple orgasms now. You can experience cervical orgasms can experience them with myself or with another person who can I can now access like beautiful deep states of like, altered consciousness to sexuality and deep intimacy with someone else and and also I can feel before my vagina was completely numb. I didn't really feel anything inside, especially drink penetration, I wouldn't really feel anything. And so a big part of my own journey and the tools that I've learned is re sensitising my own vagina, re sensitising my orgasm zones healing the numbness, like reawakening my, my sensitivity, so that I can be connected to my own sexuality and, and pleasure. And so that's kind of the journey that I went on. And it completely changed my life in every aspect. Because when you awaken this, this aspect of yourself where you heal and integrate these parts of yourself, I felt and I've seen in all the women that I've worked with, that your creativity like expands and skyrockets that your confidence changes and expands, your like, the way that you are embodied and connected to your body transforms, the way that you make love in like a more conscious and connected and like deeply intimate way is like no longer scary. It's actually beautiful and full of
magical, magical moments. And I felt that just through my embodiment of who I became, and my love of teaching other people how to connect to their own pleasure. It kind of just snowballed, and then I ended up being where I am today. And I just finished my signature retreat, which is in England, it's a six night sexual awakening, initiation, called awaken to pleasure. And it's really one of my most, most popular retreats, it's almost always fully booked. So I can see that as a desire for women to connect to that pleasure and heal numbness. And really my prayer is that all women or as many women as I can possibly impact can understand that this is possible for everyone that every woman has access to everything that I just shared. Everything that I just transformed in the last year is that every woman has access to that. And again, it comes down to self responsibility of like about choosing that for yourself. Yeah.
Let me share with you my favourite one of my favourite words, which is stated. So that's half scared and half excited. This is I would be very, I would be very, I would be skated skated to come on a six night retreat. Awaken to your pleasure. So what can you just run through a few of the practices that you bring to a group of women, which allows them to be on a path to have multiple cervical orgasms and whole body orgasms. What what what would a retreat like that look like?
Yeah. So firstly, it's I don't, I'm trying not to call it a retreat, because it's actually not. Because you're not really resting. It's like a full time initiation. So it's really like we do yoga from eight until nine. So that's like, that's a different experience. But then we have breakfast. And then from 10am, we have lunch and and in between, but from 10am till 10. At night, you're in full initiation practice. So we have 10 into one morning session, and then we have lunch. And then from 230. Until 630, you have afternoon initiation practice. And then the evening is a temple ritual from eight to 10. And this is how I have been taught. And I really resonate with this, that these are ancient, really powerful teachings that require initiation. So it's like the all in it's like an immersion. But it's like, I think in that aspect of it, and that is really like most of my offerings, emotions are like this, because it's an initiatory aspect in which you are just completely in the experience and you move so much energy and you're with another group of women that's all devoted to the same thing all devoted to awakening to their pleasure. So you feel like supported and activated and like it brings so much when you do it with a group of other women. And yeah, when I did my I've done three in person initiations and when I did my Tao tantric arts training With the the tantric and Taoist masters, we did that intensity for six weeks. And actually, it was from seven in the morning, I think until 10 At night, every day, except the weekends we did for six weeks. And I think, yeah, obviously, that's not that level of like, commitment isn't for everyone. But that is kind of the flavour of how I offer it. And in many ways, I call them people who are ready for that to want to take it to the next levels, and really the most, yeah, within that is it's such a common analogy that everyone uses, but I think it's something that everyone can understand is that it takes work to do these things. It takes work to shift and create space for multi orgasm. And just like it takes work to go to the gym, you have to show up, and you have to show up regularly, and you have to be all in and you have to commit. So to be honest, unless you enter that commitment, and that will look different for anyone and you show up over time, then, then it's hard to rewire your nervous system. And it's it's impossible to rewire your nervous system in a sustainable way. So even Lila Martin, who's one of my teachers, one of her, one of her, what's it called one of her, like offerings, I guess you could call it is that you do a self pleasure practice for 30 days. And that you show up every single day for 30 days and explore self pleasure. And I think the repetition is really important to again, rewire the nervous system, because it's so easy to introduce a new pattern for like a couple of days, and then just to go back to your previous life, so you have to really want it, that's the first thing you have to wonder and to feel ready to commit. And it's a lifelong journey, you know, and because sometimes I don't connect to my pleasure, sometimes I don't feel very sexual. Sometimes I don't self pleasure for a couple of weeks. And that's also part of it like this, the pendulum swing of like being all in and then sometimes we need to take breaks and, and integrate and do other things. Sometimes we're consistent and sometimes we do the practices every day or every few days and but I think within that there has to be that kind of I really want this so I'm going to work on this. And it's beautiful because they have the intention to always attract women who are who have that, that level of commitment within them. And yeah, so within the retreat, it's a lot of Temple work. So we do we work a lot with the Yoni egg. We do like a huge womb healing ritual that that we support each other to release because they do huge cathartic release from the womb and release. Like grief release, anger release frustration. We do different meditation practices to re sensitise your body. In the evenings when we do the Yoni egg temples, we usually have like a circle in our temple space. And we do breast massage together, we do belly massage together. So there's a lot of groups out pleasure a lot of group massage and touch. And for a lot of I mean, at least for me, and my first experience of that it was a little bit intimidating, but within like five minutes, it just seemed super normal. And it just becomes like natural because it's like so beautiful to be in that space together. And almost everyone tells me that that within a few minutes it's like okay, this is actually fine. Yeah, so we do group breast massage, you do wound massage, we do Yoni massage. We do. We work with the Yoni egg to help re sensitise the muscles of the vagina, and re sensitise the orgasm zones. With the Yoni egg I teach how to create a full body orgasm. That takes a bit of practice, but I teach a practice with the Yoni egg with that the Yoni egg is like the crystal Jade egg that comes from Taoism or there are other yarn eggs and other cultures like they use obsidian egg in, in Mexico a lot. Um, we do different massage practices in partners. What do we do ours to redo, I'm just thinking through our itinerary we do a lot, I do a lot of Kundalini awakening work. So a lot of energy work in partners. And the way that I structured my retreats is that we have, we work in partners, so that it also empowers people to enter their facilitator role. And I actually guide the whole thing. So like, you're working in partners together or in the room, but I'm also guiding Okay, facilitators to this now, or facilitators like this, or the next step is this. So it's like I'm holding the frame, but then it gives people the power to work together in intimate partnership, because I find that it's really beautiful to work with that instead of a whole group because the somehow the individual can be lost in that way. And yes, we do a beautiful group Yoni blessing. So we do like a puja, which is an ancient tantric ritual where you we do it like a whole ritual space, but you have a partner and you actually show each other your Yonis and you bless them. And we do like a whole beautiful ritual blessing of of showing each other You're believers. And this is one of the strongest ways to heal shame. And the way that I was taught this is to actually bless the Yoni with all the elements. So we do a special ritual of blessing with all of the elements and then at the end, we take beautiful rose petals and flowers, and your partner like basically adorns your vulva your Yoni with, like flowers and petals and blessings. And, and everybody loves this, like, you would never think that but it moves so much in people. And recently, I've led this a bunch of times now and in like, last year, in one of my offerings, somebody had a Polaroid. And so they decided, okay, let's take that, why don't we take because I don't want to have phones in the temple space. Like, that's my, that's a no for me. But we sang people if they wanted to take a Polaroid, like with the beautiful flowers and have like this beautiful offering, or a memory of this moment, where they felt super respected where they felt like worship where they felt like blessed that they're like, they're that they evolve or that their womb that they Yoni was like blessed. And that is so so so healing.
So yes, we work a lot with like the beginning, it's more clearing the energy, so a lot of trauma release and cathartic release, and like kind of clearing emptying out the body, you work a lot with healing, shame. And then in the middle, we start to bring in the sexual energy. So once we've kind of cleared the vessel, then we start to bring in and empower different ways to circulate sexual energy in the body. And then at the end is kind of like the celebration. And last two, two and a half, three days, like just being an ecstasy, a lot of ecstatic practices, a lot of breath work, a lot of orgasm awakening work. So it's kind of like you have to enter the underworld in order to come up and like rebirth. And the last days are a lot of a lot of ecstasy and expansion. And a lot of dancing, we do a lot of dancing as well. I teach a beautiful lap dance workshop of how to give a sacred lap dance. We do a lot of Yeah, learning how to, to be confident in your dance and how to like really be in your sexual sensual energy. Not for validation of someone else, but for yourself. Like really feeling that within yourself like wholeness as you do a lap dance and feeling like wholeness within yourself as you learn how to connect to the erotic dance within yourself. So yeah, I feel like you're probably talking to all the dog and dog about this offering this so much that I offer in this. And it's so beautiful to see how when Little Women arrive, how they leave, like They're glowing and radiant and expanded and so much more comfortable in themselves. And you can see that they're like, there's less less self consciousness. There's more. Yeah, there's just so much more magic within each woman that they've kind have reclaimed a part of themselves that has been conditioned or censored out of so many women, for all of our lives really. So it's so so liberating to do this work, because then you're like, oh, but this has been there all along. And I've just never connected
fully. That's a sense of sketching as you're speaking is actually that, I mean, for generations and generations, probably for a lot a lot longer than we may understand. women's sexuality has been repressed. And I imagine through the clearing practices that you're talking about, you're able to move what has been sticking, got stuck, which then allows you to connect with what was always there. But shame is a big thing that really blocks blocks us from, from our pleasure. And so by doing these practices together in a group sounds initially very skating. I can read a little I can really imagine the power of that. On the other side, and this is sort of healing work that yeah, it's moving is moving, moving a lot of energy for a lot of women, throughout from a lot of generations. And I'm really, when you talk about initiation, I feel curious, around historical references of women coming together in community sisterhoods. That would, and how sexuality would be discussed and how it would and how and how pleasure would be discussed. Yeah. Quite until recently, you know, even from from cultures, with my own. There's there's been associations with shame, hiding, pleasure giving rather than receiving. And so I find myself curious to, to know more about what more ancient cultures did allow for women to come together and share I guess, an awakening together among sisters, and their entire healing and how empowering actually, that would actually be.
Yeah, before the time of the Patriarch in the in the not too empowering aspect. Obviously, we can have healthy patriarch. It was very common in many different cultures to have the role of the sex priests is to be the temple sex priestesses who were healers who were guides who moved energy who ran erotic energy through their body to support healing. And yeah, there's so many beautiful books, one of them, the ones that comes a lot of my work is influenced by Tantra by Taoism, a little bit by shamanism because of my journey in Latin America, and, and also Ancient Egypt. So there's a beautiful book called The Magdalene mysteries, which is all about the journey or the path of Mary Magdalene and her her role as a tentmaker and ISIS, the cult of ISIS was also sexual temple rites and it goes back and it goes back and it goes back. So before this time, which is really only a blink in time, like the feminine word in this, these temple priestesses and were connected to their sexuality as as a healing force as healers as sovereign sexual beings. And and I understand that it was, through my own research that it was an integral part of the society. And yeah, I want to also share one little thing about the shame and how do you call it the the excitement but the scared the stated? From where I came from, so when I first did my first child tantric arts training the six week one, I had so much shame, like really, really a lot, and it was hard for me to take up space, sexually, and be confident sexually, especially with another person but within within myself, like I felt that there was that kind of hiding that you mentioned. And when I first did those rituals I would hide and so what I usually do I invite people to have it sarong underneath them for their juices and sweat and things like that or the oil that we use. And then they can have a sunroom on top of their body if they want. Not everyone wants it, some people are super confident they don't need it. So you can like when it comes to the self pleasure or the Yoni egg, or the Yoni de armoring aspects, the internal work, you can have a sarong. And when I did that, I would hide under my sarong, and it would kind of just be like under my little cloak, and I was just kind of like worried about the people next to me and very self conscious. That's really where it came from. And then through time, the self consciousness started to dissipate. And by the end of the training, I was a bit more relaxed and present with myself because I realised that they don't care what I'm doing. Like, nobody cares what I'm doing. Like everybody's focusing on themselves. It's not, it's not about them, this is about me. And, and then, like, a few years later, I did another training with Leila in person we did a one week, tantra initiation. And I felt just how far I came in those two years. The beginning I was, she didn't have any songs, nobody had songs that wasn't even part of the to bring list it was like, You are gonna be just in your nudity, if you want to, you can wear like underwear if you want. But it was like there was no mask, like you said. And there are other women that were way more confident than me that were kind of just like, you know, setting up and like being loud and being just in their pleasure without, without, without constraint really. And I found that so expansive. And by the end of that one week, I felt like I embodied that that kind of is like, wow, we've come so far, because in some points in some of the rituals that we did, some of the practices that we did, like often at the end, you open out a space for orgasm to it's a group orgasm, as a prayer, pleasure and orgasm as a prayer. And within the final days of that second initiation, I realised that I was comfortable in my own self enough to just be like sitting up to be loud. Like, before, it was like nobody listened to me orgasm, nobody looked at me. By the end, it was like, I don't care who's looking at me, you can look at me if you want, like, I'm in my confidence with this. And it's not about needing to be looked at. But it was just like this, this nature of like, I don't even care if someone's looking or judging me, like I'm embodying my, my pleasure and my arrows. So I just wanted to share, like, the journey that I went on to get to that point, by no means do I expect anybody to not have statement. Like, because I came from hiding under my cloak completely and so nervous. And it's practice, again, it comes to practice. Now how that translates in my bedroom, like insects, is that I am just like, I can go into any position, I can be loud, I can be on top, I can just be wild, I can no longer thinking about how the other person perceives me, but I'm just moving my erotic energy, how it wants to be moved. And that translates into my sexual intimacy, but profoundly. So yeah, that is that I wanted to share
on that, thank you for sharing that because I think that for those who are listening Am I include myself in that like it? I think I would feel quite confronted, initially by by being witness to others who were as empowered, as empowered as you described. And when you compare, compare yourself, which you inevitably are going to do in any group situation, that when somebody is further along, or actually is actually where you want to be, it can be really confronting to acknowledge where we are where you are. And that can feel super uncomfortable and very end and quite paralysing and can bring shame in itself, but it's moving through is it's putting you in a position to to to move beyond an edge. And like when you move beyond that edge, wherever wherever that edge may be, then there's going to be something expensive beyond that point. If you do the work work, you have commitment, and you have a desire to experience more. And so I think you're describing all of those things. And for those people who would like to, you know, expand their experience of pleasure with themselves, which then can be experienced in with others. I guess like there, it takes a confrontation with your own shame it takes, it takes a sort of acknowledgment of the judgments you are carrying around how loud you can be, how, you know, how embarrassed you feel, how self conscious you are, what part of the body, what your body you don't want, don't like. And it's actually being able to sort of work with the awareness that these practices and experience bring. That then allow you to experience the wholeness of your self, your experience, your pleasure, which is, which is what expands your capacity to, to, to be enjoy with, with your experience and unlock unlock the depths of pleasure that you that you that you can't, if you're in shame, and enjoy, and have self hatred, and all of the things that we often internalise growing up, because we do, we have grown up with all sorts of cultural messages, parental messages, family messages, religious messages that have been absorbed, and then limit limit our capacity to experience the depths of our of our own. Overall pleasure. Yeah. Yeah, going into that so vividly. That really helps to understand what it takes to really be able to awaken to to, to, to pleasure in the way that you have.
I feel like also, I think my final point would on those things that I'd love to share, before we close is that I guess there's too many parts to it. But the first part is just that. For me, in my experience, I feel that I've come so much further, doing these practices in the safety of my sisterhood. Like learning how to lap dance, in an empowered way, took a lot of fumbles, and silly moments. And I personally feel more comfortable doing that within in the safety of a group of women. And I work a lot on creating safety together and connection through safety. So that I feel like I can practice with my sisters. And I can try and I can explore. And I can learn how to be confident in myself again, through all the different practices that I learned. And then through that immersive initiatory, safe sisterhood space, then I can translate that into life. But really, it's like a safe haven in which you can explore parts of yourself and, and it's okay, if it's messy, and a bit weird, and like strange, or whatever it is, or you know, to just explore and have a space to do that. Because to be honest, it is harder to suddenly try all these things with your partner. But it's kind of like a playground of exploration. And within that we have a lot of fun. We laugh a lot. We are silly. We make games like there's a lot of playfulness in it. It's not really that serious. To be honest, I think I probably didn't translate that, like at the beginning or share that beginning. But my essence of sharing is fun. That like this healing gets to be fun and playful, and that we get to laugh a lot in the right moments. And then the right moments also be a little bit serious and cry more of those things. Yeah, to bring the playfulness back into this work. And then yeah, the second part of that point was just as you well yeah, the beautiful thing about classical Tantra for me is that we are even near Tantra is the remarrying of sex and spirit pleasure and spirit, which has been divorced by God which has been divorced, sorry, yeah. By by religion, no God by like organised religion by the patriarch by Victorian times, I don't know so many different things. So it's really a remarrying of your soul, and your spirit with sexuality with God and sexuality as this birthright gift from God, and also through Tantra is a path to God. Like through in the more intermediate levels of, of this work, sex is a meditation is a connection to God, it becomes a meditative state. And in within orgasm is a moment of oneness. It's a moment of nothingness, it's a moment of being connection to universe life, God. And, yeah, within this, this philosophy of Tantra, it's like nothing is not sacred. So I feel like in modern day life, we take some things that are sacred, and the rest of them are sin. But it's like in Tantra, every aspect of humanity is sacred, and an opportunity to connect to God to life. And I find that so beautiful, because within the healing of the shame, and like you said, the context your parents, your culture, your your friends, your first partner, first lovers, like they will influence us and create these patterns that end up sculpting the rest of our life. But within the the work that I share within the work of Tao Tantra is like you're taking away what's not yours. And it's just returning you to your your wholeness. So, it just, it is returning you to your wholeness, I find that so beautiful, because it's like you're taking away the shame that belong to Catholicism, you're taking the shame that belong to your parents, you're taking away the shame that belong to your girlfriend, when you were 14, and whatever else, and it's like you shared all of these outer layers. And then you return to more of yourself and more of your authenticity and more of your wholeness. And for me, that's the, the, the ultimate healing is like, there's no way you need to get, it's just like what you can take away, that's not yours, to be happy,
to be happy, and ultimately healthy, as you experience all aspects of your life of which your sexuality should be one of the most celebrated. So thank you so much for bringing this work to the world and to helping so many women on this on this journey. And bring us back to the sisterhood spaces that we have anciently been connected to and somehow lost along the way. So thank you so much. Where can people find out about these wonderful immersion experiences that you put on?
Yeah, so my website is Melissa singer.com, my name and I have my offerings on there, you can join my mailing list, that's a beautiful way to stay connected with me, I don't write on it very often. But when I have an event, or I'm creating, offering something, or maybe a little amusing, but like a few emails a month maximum, sometimes just one. And I say that because I don't know where the life of Instagram is going. Sorry, I'd actually prefer to direct people to my mailing list, because for me, that's like a bit more of a secure commitment to stay connected with me. But yes, I am on Instagram. It's my name as well. It's I am Melissa Sanger. I have a blue tick now, which is awesome. So it's really easy to find me. I am Melissa Sanger. And yes, I post about the retreats and online work and courses and programmes on on all of those platforms, but actually feel like in this next chapter, I really would love people to connect to my mailing list because yeah, I don't know where the future of Instagram is going and how stable it is for people who offer work like me. There's a lot of censorship. There's a lot of accounts being taken down and all of these things. That's a whole other podcast. So yeah, and then what else do I want to share? Sure. So I actually live in Mexico. And I visit England like maybe once a year or once every two years, I visit usually in the summer and offer a retreat and see my family and all of those things. So next year, there won't be an awakened to pleasure. I'm going to take one year break with that, but there'll be one probably the year after. In 2025. That sounds weird, but yeah. And then next year. I'm gonna take a little rest during the year for impersonal offerings, but at the end of the year, I have a word healer treat. meaning where I'm training work to do. I'm training people to do the work that I offer. So that's all about wound healing and sexual healing. We massage Yoni massage bodywork, and it's really intimate. It's just 10 people. So that's happening in Mexico, in November, next year, this year, this year, and next year. I think I've been on the I've been talking on the podcast too long now my brain is starting to grow. So the end of this year, and it will be the end of next year, and those will be my in person offerings for the next the next one or two years. Yeah,
wonderful. Well, I love that you've planned and plan that far in advance. And also real demonstration in in putting rest in and structuring your business around yourself rather than the other way around. So I always look to you to do that. You have your boundaries in a really inspiring way. And I certainly want to learn to learn to do that better in my own life. So thank you for showing up in the way that you do. It has a ripple effect wherever you go. So thank you so much.
