Hello, Kansas reflect your listeners. I'm Reporter Rachel, me, bro. And I'm here today with Todd Thornburg, who is an attorney with the state and also a five time third Judicial District Judge nominee. Thank you for being here.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you. Great.
So I mean, obviously, this is a lot of responsibility. And we're gonna circle to where it all starts, give me a brief overview of your life hard to do.
Well, I was, I was born and raised in Topeka. I went to Topeka West High School and ultimately ended up attending Washburn University, where I was seeking to earn a degree and ultimately did earn a degree in criminal justice with an emphasis on law enforcement. My desire at that time was to become a state trooper with the Kansas Highway Patrol. Life sort of intervened. In 1994, I was doing everything I could to build muscle in my arms. And just notice I wasn't able to build any muscle in my right bicep. And after a long period of medical uncertainty, I was diagnosed with Limb Girdle muscular dystrophy. So that sort of putting into the dream to become a Kansas Highway patrolman. So I had to kind of figure out what I was gonna do from there ultimately, didn't handle it very well. It's very difficult thing to come to grips with but floundered around doing jobs primarily in customer service for a long period of time and ultimately realized at one point in time that I am. While I might, my muscles might have failed me, my brain certainly hadn't. So I decided to go to law school in 2006, and graduated in 2009. Upon graduation, it was somewhat of a difficult year for law school grads, we were in the great recession at that particular point in time, and so I ended up taking a job. Like I kind of wanted to be a prosecutor, but things fell through with the district attorney here in Shawnee County, and I ended up taking a job representing employers and Employment Insurance hearings for the Kansas Department of Labor. They were impressed with my work and hired me as an administrative hearing officer in 2012. About a year later, I was appointed Chief of Appeals. And in 2015, I transferred to the legal division here and about a year and a half ago, I was appointed to the position of Deputy Chief Counsel. And that's that's kind of where I'm at in my legal career right now.
And I mean, how's that been going? Like, that seems like a very difficult job.
Things are going pretty well. The people that I work with are absolutely fantastic. Some of the things that I might do on a regular basis is I am the counsel for the campus Employment Security Board of Review, which is the highest level of appellate body within the agency that adjudicates unemployment insurance claims. As everybody knows, the VA agency, we had a pretty rough patch during the pandemic, but due to the hard work and diligent efforts to the good people who work at the Kansas Department of Labor, we're really kind of getting everything back on track and, and making a go of getting a new modernized computer system replace the old one that was built in the 70s. So things are on track, things are going very well there.
We always hear a lot about the computer system. Yeah. So tell me about what the the third Judicial District nominating process is like?
Well, if you don't mind, I'll give you some background on how this whole thing started. It wasn't. It wasn't something born of my ego. I was attending a hearing before a particular district judge for whom I have an extreme amount of respect. She is probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever, ever encountered. And she asked me to stay behind after the hearing it concluded. I thought to myself, What did I do, thinking that I was I was in hot water. But ultimately, she recommended that I pursue a judgeship. And so I you know, not being one that has a huge ego. I smiled at her and thanked her very, you know, very nicely and, and went about my way and thought perhaps she wasn't as brilliant as I thought she was initially if she's if she's choosing me. But then about a week later, I got a call from the then Chief Judge in Shawnee County. And the chief judge echoed the original judge's recommendation. And so that's really how I got started down this path. But you had asked about the process itself. The third Judicial District nominating commission is comprised of six members, three of whom are attorneys who are voted in by the attorneys in the district, and three of whom are lay people who are appointed by the various county commissioners. So it's a total of six individuals. The way the process works, is you submit your name for nomination and you fill out a great number of forms, you have an opportunity to submit letters of support from people in the community, whether it be lawyers or, or others, you know, who are somewhat prominent in the community. They review those, and then you sit for an interview. I believe like the last time there were 11 or 12, that that sat for interviews. And then typically the commission votes thereafter and selects about three of the candidates. They then are statutorily required to send the names of those individuals to the governor. The governor then has 60 days from the date that the names are transmitted to make a decision as to whether or not versus to which candidate she's going to select.
So this is a lengthy process. It
is a very lengthy process, and
how was it undergoing it the first time,
I will tell you that the first time that I didn't get actually selected by the nominating commission. So the second time I tried. So the first time that I was a nominee, I was ecstatic just to be a nominee. So everything else was was was kind of wonderful, just thinking that the nominating commission had sufficient confidence in me to put my name forward to the governor. But it was wonderful being a nominee, ultimately, the way that process works is you get to fill out a lengthy KBI background check report form, which is, is that a trial in and of itself, and then you ultimately sit for an interview with some of the governor's staff, and then you sit with him for an interview with the governor herself? And ultimately, then you await the decision?
Yeah. So first time, everything good? Well, that second time around,
second time around in same process obtained, it was in 2020. And I believe it was April of 2020. So at that particular point in time, the governor, as you might imagine, was extraordinarily busy. So she didn't interview the candidates that time just her staff did. And she ultimately made the made her decision, one would presume, based on review of the, the information that she had regarding the candidates, and the background report, as well as, you know, recommendations from her staff.
And again, this just like, it sounds like just being an outsider, it sounds like this is a very long, exhausting process. And you've been through this five times. Now,
you know, it really kind of is, but it just depends on the type of person you are, I do put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed. And so you know, it's something that I'm always trying to think about how to improve my chances of success, and putting more stress on myself probably than I need to. But you know, when you're somebody who really thinks that you would be good at something, you really have a servant's heart when it comes to things like public service. It's just something you want. And boy, it is something that that becomes fairly stressful. So you're alright.
So I mean, times three through five, it was like the same thing. I mean, at any point, did you get discouraged about this process?
Well, one of the listeners can't see me, but I am in a electronic wheelchair. And, you know, being me is not something that is, is the easiest thing in the world. And I if I was somebody who gave up fairly easily, you know, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you right now. But really discouraged, yes. I mean, we all want to succeed and endeavors that that we, that we engage in. But ultimately, you know, the way that I've explained it to others is, is when you are engaged in a worthy cause, you have a duty to persist. And at least for me, personally, I have that duty to illustrate to my my daughters, I have a 14 year old and a six year old daughter, that that when we are engaged in such a worthy cause. We have a duty to persist to get up off the mat when we get knocked down and to continue moving forward and to try try again. So to paraphrase Theodore Roosevelt, from his citizenship in the Republic speech that we will, we won't be with those cold and timid souls who knows neither victory nor defeat. So frustrating as it is. I will keep at it as long as the nominating commission continues to have confidence in me
to do so then we'll circle right back around So you said it either five times trying or six times, depending on.
It's I've been nominated five times. During that period of time, I've been nominated to fill six different vacancies. At one point in time, judges, Devin ham, and Parrish both retired around the same time. So the nominating Commission sent a group of nominees to fill both of those slots. So really, depending on how you look at it, I've been nominated five times. But I've been nominated for six different positions.
And in the last round, when was that? Exactly?
Most recently, I've missed recently, most recently, the it was, I was nominated, I believe in April. And if I'm remembering it correctly, and the decision date was in June, so most recently was June of this year.
And I know you just talked about, like, disappointment and all that. But I mean, again, this is exhausting process. It's just like a not too long ago. I mean, what was your reaction after that one?
You know, almost a fear the feeling of futility. But again, I'm not somebody who gives up. So I can't say that it doesn't, it doesn't hurt for a couple of days afterwards. But the more scar tissue you bill, the less things hurt over time. So as frustrating as it can be. All I can do is keep my chin up and move forward.
So do you think a sixth time will be in the
I do as a matter of fact, just my Christopher, who I've got a lot of respect for is is retiring here pretty soon. And I will appear once again before the the nominating commission. I believe it's on July 24. And go through the interview process with them again, and hopefully, hopefully get selected to be nominated once again.
And have you ever gotten any feedback on like, what, like why you haven't gotten this?
I have, I've endeavored to ask the the appointing authorities, staff to provide me feedback in order to, you know, endeavor to see what, if anything that I can do to improve my chances. And unfortunately, it hasn't been a very transparent process, and I haven't gotten any kind of response.
Okay, so each time like, I'm assuming, after each time, you've been passed over, you asked, and then
I, you know, once I been nominated three or four times, that's when I began to inquire. And unfortunately, no information has been forthcoming.
So again, a little frustrating here, right? So you don't know what you can do to improve your chances. Gotcha. I don't.
And it's I'm very much a problem solver. And it's difficult to solve a problem. If you don't know what the impediment is,
in I mean, what do you plan to say to the governor stuff when you sit down with them again, this upcoming time?
Well, I plan to once again explain why I think that I would, I would serve well, in the capacity of that, as a district judge, I think I'm extraordinarily well qualified. And that's not just me, I know, there are a lot of very well respected individuals in the legal community, as well as a great number of individuals who are both active and retired within our judiciary who agree with that assessment, including, including those on the highest court in our state. So you know, I don't think it's for lack of qualification. I think I'm eminently qualified fide. To serve. It's just, it's some other variable that I haven't thought of. I'm an optimistic guy. I'm not a sour grapes type of individual. So I will happily and and positively respond to any any inquiries that that may be coming my way. And I will, you know, continue also to highlight the fact that there's never been a severely disabled individual appointed to a position of this nature in the history of our state. And I think that that is something that well, not for its sake alone, should be dispositive, but should be something that would be considered primarily because I don't, I don't know that there's anybody in a prominent position, who's severely disabled in the state of Kansas. And I think that I could serve as a role model for those who are similarly situated. having had this experience, I can tell you that people who who look like me To an extent, I won't say suffer because I don't personally suffer, I don't let it bother me. But, you know, just just very low expectations of people will just visibility's based on my personal experience. And I think that to illustrate to others, who are, who are similarly situated, that, you know, while it might be a little bit more difficult, there's nothing that that we as folks with disabilities can't do if we really put our minds to it. And it really weren't willing to put forth the effort to do what we need to do.
So that's one of the reasons you'll keep going absolutely. Absolutely. Good. And then if you don't mind, can you tell me a little bit what it's like, like having this challenge as a lawyer?
You know, one of the things that I've found is that the people in the legal profession are, are extraordinarily kind and decent, and I haven't had much in the way of difficulty as a legal professional, dealing with some of the, the daily routine challenges that that any other lawyer might face. Now me personally, you know, it's, it's, I have to employ people to get me up every day in the morning and go to bed at night and things of that nature. So it is a bit of a slog to engage in my daily routine, but I really just do it because I have an astounding affinity for the law. And I have a couple of little girls that that I'm raising, along with my my lovely wife, Valerie, that I have an obligation to show that when we are challenged in life, you know, we do what we need to do in order to fulfill our responsibilities.
Gotcha. And I mean, what's next for you to you?
I just, I enjoy being a public servant. And I enjoy the wonderful people that I work with the Kansas Department of Labor. Secretary Schultz is wonderful, you know, my nearest and dearest colleagues, just to give them a shout out, Jessica Bryson, Nicole Allen, Cecilia Resnick, among others are just wonderful people to work with. And so it's not, you know, I am trying to become a district judge. And obviously, it would be an error that I would have to leave the Department of Labor, but they make it so it's, it's pretty nice to to get the bad news every time because I really enjoy working with those people.
With no feedback or anything. frustrating process, you're gonna keep going at it. Is there a certain amount of time when you're like, I'm going to be done with this like?
Well, I consider myself right. I don't think I will ever quit. As long as the nominating commission continues to have faith in me, I don't think I'll ever quit. I say that I'm stubborn. Former Chief Judge Richard Anderson says no, Todd, you just have grit. And grit is kind of an important thing. So however you characterize it, once I've set my mind to do something, I continue at it until until I'm successful. And so I don't think I'll ever quit. It's just not in my DNA.
So we get up to 12 times you're gonna be like, keep going.
Well, you know, Judge Bill Osman over Shawnee County, I think it took him and I could be wrong. And he might correct me at some point in time if I am. But I do believe it took him seven times being nominated before he was finally selected. And he's enjoyed a wonderful career. And he's a very well respected judge. So maybe I can break his record. I'm hoping I don't have to. But ultimately, if that's, if that's what it takes, then absolutely. 12 times 13 times whatever it takes.
Sounds good. So what is like the longest number of people have like tried to, you know, I don't
know off the top of my head. I know that Judge Hill on the on the Court of Appeals had to try a number times before he was appointed. You know, during the blue, I can say that probably in the current administration. I'm probably the most not selected individual that that's that's come up for appointment, but I don't know what what the what the state record is,
in the time that you've done it. Like how what's the usual amount of tries? Is it just one or
just in the times that I've done it? There's there's been there's been people who have got it the first time they're nominated. You know, it might not be the first time they went before the nominating commission. We got it the first time they were nominated. There have been others who took them two or three trials before they were they were finally selected. But usually, I would say it's between one and three.
Because we want to do okay, so you a little above it now, but you know, next time around, maybe
anything's possible.
Do they usually give feedback for this sort of thing or?
Well, you know, I've only had experience during the present administration with this process. So at least to my knowledge, feedback, certainly not fourth. Coming. I don't know anything about past administrations because I hadn't started trying until 2019.
So no feedback from them. And then have you talked to anyone for advice on this? Or have you been excited
I have a lot of I have a lot of good people who are in my corner, who continue to encourage me to try including those that that encouraged me in the first place. And they're still there. They're still behind me. And, you know, it's been it's been a frustrating experiences, as I think that we've well established. But it's been wonderful to make friends with some of these people who I hadn't been friends with before the judges that ultimately recommended that I pursue this course. I hadn't met him prior to appearing for him in a professional capacity. So the basis for their opinions wasn't that Oh, Todd and I are best buddies. It was based on my professional competence, professionalism, and things of that nature. But I've gotten to get to know them more as people. And it's, it's really been a good experience. So yes, I've got a lot of people in my corner, and I bounce ideas off of many of them. And it's been, it's been at least fruitful as from that perspective.
And just as a lawyer looking into this judicial system, what do you think of the system overall? Is this a good system to have to appoint judges?
Yeah, I think that I think that overall, I think the merit based system is the system that I would prefer over the system that is used in other districts. Districts are allowed to either use the merit based system which the process I've described for you, or they can elect their judges, for instance, Sedgwick County judges are elected in Sedgwick County, same with wind County. And I just think that the merit based selection system is a is a better way to go. Yeah, no, we
had some in the recent election cycle. There was a bit of debate about that. Were you following any of that? I didn't.
I know that. There has always been there's been some contention as to the way that judges are selected in the state. But I wasn't following it too terribly closely, because usually that involves appellate courts. And I'm looking to be appointed to a trial court. So I haven't followed that closely. Yeah.
And is there anything else you'd like to highlight about the legal system here in Kansas, or about your job or anything else you want to throw in here?
No, other than, you know, I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to do what I do. I'm fortunate to be a lawyer. You know, originally, I wanted to be a prosecutor. And I think I would have done well there. Sometimes life throws curveballs, I'm happy where I'm at now. And I've got a wonderful group of people that I work with. seems counterintuitive, who want to escape them. But one of these days, I'll work down the street here at the courthouse as a district judge, it's just a matter of time. And I will continue to maintain the effort with a optimistic view towards things.
And I guess all in this with a final question like how significant would it be for you to show that someone with disabilities can be a district job, Judge,
I think it would be wonderful, again, to harken back to what I said before, one, it would be a personal accomplishment in that I didn't allow the obstacles that are in my way to stop me and to, for the for the other folks who are disabled to have somebody that could kind of forge the path and illustrate that lots of neat things are possible. And three. The thing that will probably mean the most to me is making my daughters proud. You know, when you're appointed, you ultimately have an investiture ceremony. And that means you're sworn in by another judge. And you know, you have a you can have a speaker and somebody introduces you and things of that nature. But I promised my eldest daughter who's 14 Now that when I do get sworn in, because I can no longer raise my arms that my eldest daughter will lend her strength and raise my right hand to take the oath. And when that happens, it's going to be a joyous occasion.
It sounds like you've got one of the nicest teenage daughters around.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that for certain, but I think that she'll perform that duty for me without art.
I think that's all the time we have. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you so very much for having me, Rachel. It was a pleasure.
