Right Good morning, everyone. We would now call to order the expanded budget Finance and Audit Committee for the purposes of our budget hearings, and Madam Clerk, good morning.
Morning.
Please call the roll.
Thank you. Councilmember Scott Benson. Councilmember Friedlander Hall, the third councilmember Leticia Jansen, Councilmember Gabriela Santiago Romero. Councilmember Mary waters. Councilmember Angela whip and Callaway, President, customer comedy on a second. Council President Pro Tem James T. Council President Mary Sheffield President, Madam President, you have a quorum present.
Thank you there being a quorum, we are in session and we will proceed with our first hearing for this morning. We have the law department. I do not see Corporation Council. Is he here?
Good morning, madam president Jason Harrison, senior Troy law department. He is in a court hearing he expects to be here shortly. Yes, the council president the Council for their indulgence, we're ready to proceed nevertheless, but he will be joining us.
Okay. All right. Cool. Thank you. Thank you for being here. So you want to proceed with the overview and presentation? Absolutely. Okay. The floor is yours. Thank you.
Good morning. Honorable council members, Jason Harrison of seed and Choi law department. I have with me today our Oh CFO representative, Mr. James George. We also have two of our project managers here Miss Julie Fowler, who is sitting behind me as well as Crystal Rollins Wiggum. To answer any questions we did want to make honorable Council aware that we will be giving post submission or post presentation answers to many of the questions that have been submitted to us in the last 48 hours. We want to make sure that you have the accurate information as a follow up to the budget that was included in the mayor's budget presentation, at least for law last week. With that said we do have one slide that really summarizes the budget that our Oh CFO rep will be able to pull up for you. I believe you have copies of it. Other than that, we can certainly give you any questions that we can or any questions that we can answer today. We will certainly try to do that with the staff that's here. And again, we do expect that Conrad Matt will be joining us hopefully shortly in the next 15 or 20 minutes. Thank you
Yes, just making sure you had the privileges to do so.
Going up on my screen
make sure you click Share Screen I think I did. Harris is gonna come in and see if she could assist you.
It is too small.
Good morning our body this is the budget summary that we submitted to you as a paper copy as well. So it's the summary of the budget law department's budget for fiscal year 2020 25. And the department is happy with this budget. So if we can answer any of your questions.
Right. Thank you that will conclude your presentation. Yes. All right. Thank you. Would you be able to answer any questions on the office? of eviction defense or should we wait to Corporation Council colors? That's probably a question the microphone isn't on.
Corporation Council be able to answer questions in regards to the Office of I believe it's right to counsel. And we also will be including that in our post presentation answers because I believe we did receive some questions from your office from Pro Tem and perhaps some other council members.
Okay, most of my questions actually center around the office of eviction defense so I will wait to cooperate your counsel get here. Didn't want to ask about Project clean slate is that housed with I know it's non departmental will you all be able to address any staffing and budgetary concerns around project clean slate or his bed?
Adam chair the project clean slate is transferred to the non departmental budget last year so that is where their house at this point is. Question.
Yeah, I guess this question is overall regarding staffing and the appropriate funding with that because their attorneys I thought maybe the law department had some input around that particular project. That's
correct. They are there. The budget hearing is coming up as part of the non departments. way today. Yes.
All right. Um, so I have my questions again around the office of eviction defense, so I will wait to our corporation Council gets here. Until then I will move to questions from my colleagues and we can start with member Calloway. Good morning,
Madam Chair and good morning, everyone. My questions are always about our backlog of FOIA request. And on a regular basis, we always see something in the newspaper or on the news. That's not so favorable to the city. And I sit on the committee, internal operations committee and routinely we are settling lawsuits because of our failure to answer for your requests in a timely fashion which is an embarrassment and a black eye for the city. I think we just settled one with gross point storage company for almost $50,000 Because what I've read I could be wrong our negligence and our failure to respond in a timely fashion. So year before last budget before last we put in just a measly $70,000 to hire someone clerk paralegal to help with the backlog of FOIA requests. That didn't happen, although the dollars were approved. But that person was never hired. To my knowledge. The police were provide the number of FOIA requests received each year, and we can go back since 2019 and explain how the law department you probably can't give me these answers today. We'll address the backlog of FOIA cases. So we can avoid the continued settlement of lawsuits because of our failure to answer the FOIA requests in a timely fashion. So you may not be able to provide that data today. But I would like to know going back to the year 2020 2019. The number of FOIA requests received and explain how the law department will will address those cases. So that's one request that I don't expect to get an answer to today because that you're going back to 2019. That's probably a lot of data and information. But what is your plan? To address the backlog of FOIA request, and to beef up that division of the law department? And I'll wait for that response. And then I'll ask my second question. Thank you, Madam Chair and thank you, Corporation Counsel mallet and Good morning, sir.
Good morning. Excuse me for being late. We were in a court hearing court got delayed and I just was able to make it up. Please excuse by the fact that I was tardy as to the four year issue right now concept person Callaway, I wouldn't describe the overwhelming amount of foi requests that we have as having created quote a backlog. As the requests come in. They are sent out in an organized manner within the seven day window that is provided to the various departments. The departments as you know, this is this body very, very well known under tremendous pressure to do a variety of things. And if you look on their list of most important duties and responsibilities, quite frankly, sometimes for you falls to the bottom of the list and does not remain at the top. We work diligently with the departments and really right now council person. The management of the for your requests, and in terms of issuing the delays that sometimes occur is not because the lawyers are not able to do the work is because they don't have the departmental responses necessary to respond. So it's a combination of things. We could always use more help. But I think that clearly, if you look at the experience that of the very positive experience that we have with DPD they have Councilperson an actual person into the department who is responsible at a sergeant level for responding to FOIA requests. Their response system is organized. There is in fact personnel assigned to do that work. Obviously DPD is is very much a focus of attention. So that's an appropriate response. It's difficult I think sometimes for every department to say we are going to dedicate a specific group of persons to manage issues that only come up occasionally. Yeah. DPW doesn't get very many requests in comparison to DPD. So I do believe that within the context of the budget that has been presented, FOIA is appropriately professionally supported. We could always get more help. But right now, the issues that we have constant person have everything to do also with this there has been a determined shift. And you know, the the no one could could argue that people love lawyers more than me, but the lawyers who particularly take aim at the city of Detroit. Now use FOIA as an extension of their discovery tools. So even as they decide, am I going to take a case, they then put in a FOIA request to determine whether or not there is substance to the possible complaint that they might file. So there's a lot of I don't want to say manipulation, but certainly management of the legal opportunity to request the information. We're confronting that more and more and more, but I don't think counsel person that what we have quote is a Aah, a backlog Now occasionally and it is the case that we're dealing with right now. request came in from FOIA, wanting very specific medical information about city of Detroit employees, the HR department, in my judgment, appropriately resisted that claim. Now it came in under FOIA. The clock begins ticking. The HR decision not to respond to the request supported by the law department, then was appealed. And that decision is now being appealed even as we speak. And so sometimes the foyer issues council person to turn into consequential legal issues. Do city of Detroit employees have a federal right to privacy when it comes to FOIA. When the request when the request tour says that the reason I'm asking is because it's going to enhance my position potentially, in negotiations that I might be involved with with the city of Detroit. So again, they're not a backlog issue. It is a judge making determination council person that they disagreed with what we thought was the appropriate response. So it's becoming increasingly complex, but as I indicated, we don't have a backlog per se. What we have is sometimes these legal issues are found against us. In most of the instances, the department's supported by the law department are resisting disclosure for what we think are good and valid reasons. And the trial court judge disagrees. Um,
thank you for that character. for that clarification, and I wrote down what you said you said for your request fall to the bottom. I don't think they should be at the bottom. I think we should move them up. Because the ones that we do have, sir, are costing us a lot of money in settlements recently with the growth point storage unit. Yes, that was close to $50,000. I read it in detail. So I know that could have been avoided. Had we done our due diligence, I was not in the courtroom. I'm not a member of the law department, but just based on what I read. We failed to do some things and it cost us I
would disagree wholeheartedly with a decision issued by a judge and your characterizations at the dinner party that the law department failed only
what I read, sir, and we're not going to go back and forth. So I'm going to you know, I respect what you're saying. I hope you respect what I'm saying we can you know, respectfully disagree. I can only tell you what I read in the newspaper. So you said for your request fall to the body. I'm respecting respectfully asking you that they not fall to the bottom but be at the goat closer to the top in terms of priorities to help the city avoid settling unnecessary lawsuits. That's all I'm asking. If there's not if I've missed characterize in terms of it being a backlog, we have issues with voices with the city. And it was way before I became a member of this council. I've read articles about us failing to answer for your requests in a timely fashion. They have to be answered. But I'm hoping that we'll do a better job of answering the FOIA requests in a more timely fashion to avoid what I've characterized as a backlog and you've corrected me and I've I've accepted your explanation and clarification. But we still have issue. We still have issue with answering FOIA requests because when I joined the Council and 2022 I requested money to be put in the budget for your department, sir. To dress for your issues, because there were issues back then and 2022. And that was not honored that that person was never hired, to my knowledge. We put 70 or $75,000 in the budget for that one reason to maybe hire a paralegal or a law clerk. I know sometimes those for your request can kind of be detailed and a lot of that stuff is confidential and you have to redact it. I understand that clearly. But still we have an issue. I personally have an issue with the way that we're perhaps not handling for your request in a timely fashion. So I'm hoping I'm looking at the four year request responses and I'm not understanding if you can explain it to me, sir. Still on the for your question. And it's B 32. Dash five of your budget report. It says fiscal year 2025. The mayor proposed two point $54 million for for your responses can you explain what that means? Is that the amount we're going to spend on answering for your responses or is that what we're settling? So
thanks, thanks. It's I don't have it for that
issue or budget report and it's page B as in boy 32 Dash five. And it says for your responses to point 54.
I see the recitation as relates to the four year edition, the four year depart section, council person, the definition of the 2.9
JAMES No, sir I'm on page B as in boy 32 Dash five of your budget. Budget it says budget by service. Sure. And then it says for your response $2 million, and then it says proposed FTE. Is 18 Yeah. Okay. I don't understand what the 2 million is for is that in terms of how we're what it's going to cost us to respond
these personalities or is it personnel? Okay, so
that's what it's costing us to respond. Yes, ma'am. Because I see another figured so that's 3000. In the next bracket, it says 3759 hours. So the 3759 hours equates to $2 million in terms of power responding to FOIA requests, or am I misunderstanding what I'm reading and the related goal is eight. I'm just trying to understand these numbers that I see. Right,
so we spent 3759 hours responding to the FOIA requests and it's related to goal number eight.
And what is gold number eight, I'm looking for it. Okay, that's here. Process records request pursuant to state law okay. And then the two point million dollars is what it is costing us are costing your department with the 3000 hours. Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. And my sec. Thank Thank you, sir. My second question is please explain how the law department through both law staff and outside counsel and we've talked about this council on Corporation council with my expectation that we'll continue to reach out to the Wolverine Bar Association Association and Black Women Lawyers Association to get more minority and more black women involved with getting a piece of that law department pie that other law firms larger law firms seem to be in the habit of getting so I'm always going to continue to advocate for that but please explain how the law department through both law department staff and outside counsel has improved the collection of overdue taxes and demolition costs. We've talked about this and I'm very happy that we are since 2022, or 2023. Going after some property owners after we've demolished properties. Please describe the program and the resources needed to continue the program or to beef it up. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, sir.
You through the Chair. Thank you, counsel person. The Blight litigation group currently has eight lawyers that are responsible for filing public nuisance cases but also the cost recovery cases that you mentioned. Currently, council person we have 18 lawsuits that have been filed during the FY 24 year there have been recoveries just from invoices that had been sent with the law departments assistance for Mr. Ones department in the amount of $978,000. Almost a million dollars this year. Two of those were from Detroit Public Schools. Two of them were for other owners of properties that were demolished. We're being very aggressive. The law department was involved in creating the invoice process that miss the wind is using for the 3d department. Essentially the process begins with the invoice going out to the private owner for about 30 days. They have a time where they can respond and try to pay it. And then the law department writes a demand letter in which they have another 30 days or so to respond. And then the lawsuit is filed in which we have 18 of them right now. There are nine lawsuits that are being prepared right now based upon invoices where that period has exhausted. We're preparing to file bills. So we're being very aggressive. The ARPA money is assisted with that. And that's the process at this point. And we have 34
demand letters currently in process council person so we're doing everything that we can to collect the dollars that are available. At some point the Floyd Allen group's collection contract, which I'm hoping will be more sooner or later will be in front of this body for approval. Once we get the collection cases to a point where there's an entry of a judgment, we can then transfer the case over to the Allen group quote for collection. In every instance, when we get a judgment pursuant to the collection activity that we're involved in. If we don't if we can't take the land back itself, we put a lien so that should the owner of the property tried to sell the property and not pay us what's do they have to make sure the title company is going to make sure they come through us in order to make sure that we in order to have a clean transfer the deed so we've taken the collection activity very, very seriously. lawan counts has done a fabulous job particularly as relates to dpscd. So this is an ongoing process. One of the questions that came up was how long did these collection cases take? And the truth of the matter council person it's about a year you filed you filed a complaint demanding the money and as you go through the process it's about a year to get to judgment on and and but nevertheless we're committed to doing it. And so far we've had some success, not as much success as we would have hoped.
Yeah, and thank you for that we heard on pro Tim Tate asked director counts when she appeared before this council. That $970,000 collection is 30% of what were owed. So I'm hoping that we can increase our collection rate. And I know we're doing a better job than we have done. So thank you so much for even, you know, issuing even starting the collection process because it hadn't happened before. So I appreciate that but 30% I'm hoping that we can at least get to 50% and then continue from there. But thank you so much. I do have some other questions that I submit to you. Thank you Madam Chair. And thank you Corporation Counsel to you and your team. Thank you.
All right. Thank you member Callaway. Good morning Corporation Counsel. Good morning. My questions are really around the office of eviction defense and for those who are listening that is the office that deals with right to counsel for those who are experiencing evictions throughout the city. I know we have a new executive director wanted to know the overall budget for the office of eviction defense one.
So we just got the as you know, we got the $12 million approved we have the $2 million that came from the state of Michigan and we have the original six. So we have $20 million available to $18 million
available to us that's typically referring to the office itself. So how many
the office itself? We have the salary associated with diamond Conley. We just hired in the last two weeks council president her assistant and we are going to be using part of the grant dollars that came from the state of Michigan for neighborhood based community based communication about the perfect service that is
being offered. That's exactly what I was gonna get on making sure that we have in this budget, the appropriate funding for outreach and that was a big thing that our legal organizations lifted up is that we have to get the information out whether it be door knocking just so that there's not a default so that people know that these services are available and that they actually do appear in court. So I'm going to move that portion to Executive Session just so I'm clear as to how much funding is available. Do you know offhand how much will be available for outreach? Let
me let me present to you the RTC budget council person so that you can see it broken down. I don't have that, per se.
So I'll move right to counsel will the office of eviction defense into executive session as well as the overall right to counsel budget into executive session if there is a motion to do so. All right, Hearing no objections that will be added. And then just I know we talked about the office being public facing and an actual number for people to be able to call if they're experiencing eviction or needed need legal services, and I see on the website. We're driving everyone to the housing resources hotline. So is there an option within that particular infrastructure that they can click on right to counsel or legal help?
So at this point, there isn't we're in caught we're in conversation with Lakeshore council president about them beefing up their online excuse me their phone contact capability. And that's part of what we think we're going to be using part of the $2 million for the state from the state of Michigan to create for and support lakeshores ability to take those calls. It's not just as you know, council president a phone number where someone can say where do I go for relief over the phone. And the reason that it really has to be done by lawyers is that if we're going to offer a citizen legal advice, it's got to be focused on the problem. at hand and has to be delivered by a lawyer, frankly, if we're going to be delivering the services that the citizens are expected. So that's why the Lakeshore option is one that we're thoroughly examining.
So currently now residents are calling the housing services no sent over too late it is directed over to Legos. Okay. And then currently the the office is budgeted through ARPA funded funding or is there something Okay, so I just wanted to make sure that we're thinking long term as relates to this was created by law. In the long term goals actually funding the office of eviction defense. Has there been any conversation around the long term plans of how we actually sustain the office of eviction defense when ARPA theanine does run out?
I think that in the in the budget that you're going to see following this one, I mean, that's going to be the first time where the administration is going to have to confront a number of programs that currently exist that are then going to have to depend on general fund funding alone, and the size and the shape of those programs based on the law that got passed. I'm sure there's going to be a very significant conversation between the administration and the legislative leadership about what that amount is going to be.
Okay. All right. Thank you. I do have additional questions that we will submit in writing and for now, I will yield to my colleagues and we will go now to Councilmember Doha.
Thank you, Madam President. A good morning to you all. Thank you for the work that you do. Not easy at times I can imagine but we appreciate you very necessary to have a lot of department lessons that I have just kind of revolve around collections for folks. I know. And I was looking at an old black caucus report from the Black Caucus foundation that indicated that there was about $1.5 billion floating out there that the city of Detroit could possibly collect and want to thank you I know you've been talking about a corporation Council while pursuing a lot of these tax dollars and collecting these tax dollars to ensure that we're getting what Detroit residents are, oh, where are we at, though with that? Collecting how much is owed and to us, particularly for those who have been wanting to be investors in Detroit and then just said, Hey, I'm not paying my property taxes. How much can we possibly collect and what process are we in
controversy as you're referring to that black caucus report? So a group called Motor City Law Firm, Andrew Monroe and Darrell champ CO for about five or six years, have the responsibility to manage that particular program. They collected about $300,000 in judgments which got turned over to the city of Detroit. That is the work that is being transferred to the Floyd Allen law firm. So while the number is still very large, I think that quite frankly, council person, if you look at it realistically, is probably only only going to be about 30%. I mean they're very difficult to get jurisdiction over someone who is out of state or out of the country. So these collection processes are just difficult to make happen, the potential the return on the investment I think is worthwhile because the city of Detroit will get back between 25 and 30% of the number that you quoted, but it will not be without substantial effort. That frankly, Motor City Law Firm Monroe and cimco simply ran out of energy and and bringing the transferring the work over to the Floyd Allen Law Firm under the direction of a young woman by the name of Monica Hahn I think is going to add new life to the collection process. There remains and I think that the the bucket of opportunity is really informed in two buckets, those persons who are in Detroit, those persons are in the county and then they're those persons during the state collectively. I think after we finished with this is going to be a contingency fee, relationship council person so at the end of the day, I think that the city, Georgia will be looking at 15 or $20 million, which will be helpful. Obviously it's not the billion dollars that the black caucus was overall estimating. I don't think those numbers were inflated per se. I think that there was a miss calculation as to collectability. I think that really once you get beyond the state of Michigan, you are really really climbing a very steep glass Hill to make those collections work. But we think that it's worth the effort. And under Monica Hans leadership, we really do think that the collections are going to be more significant. And
I appreciate that. I know I when I was looking at the $1.5 billion number you know, obviously collections are difficult, but I think when we talk about judgments, I think that floated around 80 to 100 million, which is still onerous, to try to collect all of that. But I think, you know, as we look at increasing revenues here in the city of Detroit, and putting more money into our general fund, if we are able to collect those dollars that are owed, particularly to those investors who have had those blighted property properties and not taking care of them or Oh property taxes, as well. That would do some great for the residents of the city of Detroit. I really don't have any other questions. Obviously, a lot of questions float, you know, around right to counsel and access its success rates. I know we got some of that update yesterday in the budget financial audit standing committee at 1pm when we talked about the ARPA funding, and we got some of the metrics and the data back relative to that. My question is just relative to as we see the landscape change here in the city of Detroit, with rentals with evictions, if we're able to utilize this program, what is your overall thought on just a forecast of how, how long what the need may be and just your experiences from other states that have used right to counsel and how they were able to kind of bring those effects or those issues now in that state in a certain period of time. So
controversial. Let me let me that's a very fair question. Let me just first of all lift up diamond calm Lee, who was the executive director of right to conference, he's done a fabulous job. I do think as a tag along to the council presidents question we are going to be in this fiscal year, able to cover 90% of the person's almost 17,000 people who need eviction defense will actually have a lawyer available to them when they manage their case. So this is something that this legislative body can be very proud of. I think that we're going to get to, I would venture to say diamond will he or she probably say 100 I'm a little bit more conservative and say 90 But we're going to be very, very close to providing full representation. I do think that quite frankly, no matter how good the economy becomes a we're still going to be dealing between 15 and 20,000 persons each year. Who can flaunt eviction as long as the poverty level in the city of Detroit remains in the low 40s High 30s. This is unfortunately going to be a fact of life. i And and so this is going to be a part of the you know, difficult responsibility that this legislative group is going to have to confront in the budget that's coming in the next fiscal year. But we know what it cost and we also on the flip side, though, know what right to counsel means. So I think it's going to be with us for quite some time. I don't think that unnecessarily we're going to be able to see the amount of persons who need legal representation diminish. I do do think that the amount of affordable housing that has been created and supported obviously vigorously by this legislative body has helped. The number is down from 23,000. So there has been some improvement in the ability of city Detroit residents to pay their rent and to provide for their families but I think the need is going to be on go.
Thank you. I appreciate you mentioning that. You know when we talk about obviously a great mechanism for folks who use a residence to use in the city of Detroit but we don't want them to have to use it. And so I think you know also tagging along and connecting and focusing on a lot of those core items as well and ensuring that we find or put resources to those folks to help them get jobs, you know, provide more affordable housing is also a key component in success. So thank you very much. that those are
all the questions that I had. If we have any additional we will submit them to you. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you member Doha council member Johnson. Thank you, Madam President. And good morning to you all. I first want to start out inquiring about the risk management fund although I don't see it under the law department and the information that was shared online. Want to find out if there's any way anything that we're doing, working with particularly two departments that come before the internal operations standing committee quite frequently, relative to the risk management fund, if there's anything that we can do to be proactive in working with those two departments, the Department of Transportation and the Detroit Police Department, just to ensure that we're we're providing all of the information to employees to address behavior, to address making sure that we're doing everything that we can to start to minimize how much is coming out of that fun on a monthly basis, if you will. So council person the it's not it's not under the jurisdiction of law department that's under the Oh CFO is as as I'm sure that you're aware number one, number two, with DDOT. They just hired a very bright young man to be their safety officer. That is a position that has I think under this young person's management going to be much much more vigorous in the creation of programs that are actually going to have an effect on one of the things that he is doing and that that is I know oh CFO and DDOT is supporting is the reinstallation of cameras inside the bus so that we can do two things understand the quality of the service that's being provided, but also really create some video evidence around whether or not all of the claims that you will see unfortunately on a too regular basis are actually based on fact or fiction. I and and and I will just say that, you know DDOT where people come in and they said there was a slip and fall inside the coach. Which resulted in dramatic neck back in other injuries. You know, I mean the the from our point of view, there's some really unfair manipulation of the of the process going on. And the amount of fraud quite frankly, that's being visited upon the city of Detroit is outrageous and wrong, is difficult through a risk management process to stop the criminal intent around the manipulation of the civil statutes that benefit the vast majority people who are protected by them. When people do things on purpose, like cut off a DDOT bus caused the driver to slam on the brakes. Suddenly five people on the bus then fall out of their chair and are on their way to a long list of rehabilitation service providers who are going to give them an MRI or a CT scan and every other conceivable test to determine whether or not they've been injured and then they come to the city of Detroit for reimbursement as you know counsel person, the average settlement is $30,000 i n and and and that's because there's not a good way of defeating the medical judgment of a physician who says John Jones or Sally Smith actually did suffer, you know, some bruise to their disk that no one can see and only they can feel so the I do think that you are correct in continuing to say that DDOT and DPD have to have because it's going to be important in the legal cases that we've got to try. At number one, have a policy but number two have a track record of actually educating people about safety. That will help us in some of these cases. So yes, I mean, the we're insistent. In fact, the law department has traditionally and now I'm a part of the risk management group that meets every two weeks and and believe me these these these men and women are serious about trying to do better. And and but it's difficult. Were we working in a an environment that did not include illegal manipulation of opportunity in the law. I think we'd be much much the our numbers would be very different. I'll say that was no hesitation. All right. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I know that we've talked about cameras on buses in iOS. And we were told that all of the buses have cameras. And so I'm not sure if I think there was a percentage that are inoperable. Yeah, so that in constant repair, right, right. And I know that the department is working to address that but I know that DC high with the Detroit Police Department has been doing a great job with holding officers accountable and just making sure that we continue to train officers go through disciplinary measures if need be. And so you know, it's I won't say that it's frustrating, but we see a lot of money leaving the city on a weekly basis, recognizing that some of the settlements that come before us are because of the no fault system and what you just described, relative to accidents on DDOT coaches. I just want to make sure that we're doing everything that we can to minimize the requests that come before us. And that when there is a true opportunity to litigate matters that we're actually doing that and maybe that will help to discourage people from just filing frivolous lawsuits against the city of Detroit. So that is going to kind of segue into my next question, which is relative to measures that we're taking to reduce the amount of outsourcing that happens within the law department. I recognize that you know, there are law firms that specialize in certain areas. And I'm wondering if the law department is looking at the salaries for the attorneys in the law department. I actually had a staff member of mine who had come from the law department. I was shocked that she was paid less than what I was paying her when she was in the law department. brilliant young lady. And so I'm wondering if are we getting individuals who have the specialization experience to be able to litigate matters in the law department, and if not, is some of it because they're not being paid? What they were and I know they're not going to be paid what they will be paid if they were working for a law firm. But have we looked into that to bring in in house some of those specialization, skills and experience to be able to litigate matters internally as opposed to the level of outsourcing that we do. So council person, the lawyers. We are below market and that will always be the case unfortunately. And I do think that within the confines of the budget, and and this this honorable body is, you know, critically aware that all city employees likely deserve more money than they get for instance, we don't have a lawyer in the department who specializes in bankruptcy. We don't have a lawyer the department is specializes in the bankruptcy counsel person because we don't have that much exposure to the need. So when we have to go outside because at that particular occasion of the necessity for that specialty, it's going to be costly. The men and women who do the work, litigation work the Blight work under Mr. Harrison's leadership, the contractual work under Pamela Parrish. The municipal work on a tiny along. These are very, very good lawyers, and I would venture to say, on par with all of their private sector counterparts, and they're probably paying on average $50,000 less. That's the way it is and and and were we able to recruit at a higher level I what I like to think that the men and women who were at the city of Detroit made a decision about the public service that they wanted to provide. I wish we were closer to market level but again, looking at the budget that was particularly relates to salaries, which is most of what you all are confronted with. We are we are I think that my team is appreciative of the support that you all provide me and let me leave it there. All
right. I appreciate that. Because I will say that I think it takes people who have a certain passion and commitment dedication to the residents of the city of Detroit who want to be here who are here. But I would like to find out a little bit more about your turnover rate in the law department to just to understand and to make sure that we have those individuals that we're able to retain and perhaps there are things that we can do that provides greater benefit to them so as to be a reason for them to stay. Not only because they are committed to the residents of the city of Detroit, but we also know that they have bills that need to be paid as well. So with that, Madam President, I'd like to make a motion to add the law Departments budget into executive session to have a better understanding of turnover and to really look at the salaries of our employees within the law department. Yes, ma'am.
All right, Hearing no objections that action will be taken.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. And thank you. Thank you. Right.
Thank you member Johnson. Member waters.
Council member waters
All right. So good morning, morning. And first of all, let me just say thank you for finally getting us to the to the point with the tenants rights commission. Form I so appreciate it. It was it was a long time coming but we got there and thank you so you all so much. Um, the first quick question just has to do with your your operating services and your legislative services. There appears to be some decreases there. Can you explain that?
Yeah, please do.
military member water. The decrease mainly. is supported is operating services decreased mainly the right size the professional the the services that is anticipated for this fiscal year. Is is the software maintenance fee is is the increase that that we are expecting this year.
Okay. All right. And a number of my questions were already asked but I do want to go back to something that my colleague member Dr. Hall talked about that was the the Black Caucus foundation. You said that perhaps a $1.5 billion was overstated. This man and so what does that put us out of maybe about 800 million or something like that or
ah member waters you know what? The if I could let me get back to you with a lesson though off the top of the off the top of my head response to that. Let me let me actually ask Floyd Allen and Andrew Monroe. What their current thoughts are based on at this point five years of experience trying to collect this money. I'm sure they've got a much more realistic view of what the actual opportunity is. And I want to set the expectation appropriately.
All right, so All right, so that's fine. That works for me. But I also want to know, has anyone else done the research other than the Black Caucus Foundation, their research and analysis has has any other research and analysis piece been done by anyone else?
Afternoon?
Are you planning to file lawsuits to collect this money?
Not that I'm aware of
that you were so that was the only research and analysis that that you have thus far? Yes, man. All right. Okay. Then I'll wait for your response and other things and just kind of wanted to better understand that. Will the Black Caucus foundation still be working somehow another with what the Allen group or anything like that?
Yes, they the they still will be working with the allen group they still will have a both they'll they'll have a support opportunity for the Allen group in the same way they had with Motor City. Okay.
All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you member waters Pro Tem Tate.
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you for being here. Cooperation Council. Welcome to your team as well. As mentioned as you did, your your attorneys, they can be anywhere. These are some phenomenal men and women who are very talented and they decided to work with the city of Detroit. So we are thankful to have each and every one of you here because we need you and need you in a worse way. So thank you for the service that you provided over the years each and every one of you. Thank you, sir, your team, please take that back to those who are not here unable to hear that. Want to talk kind of in reverse of what member Johnson mentioned? We because I'm looking forward to seeing that information as well. But I know we have been asked to approve contracts that have been amended with outside firms at least about five times out to this point. What's the department's cost savings strategies to ensure that these contract contracted law firms can complete the services within the timeframe that is desirable, but then also requesting that without requesting additional time and money on those contracts, which again were five amendments, we continue to go down this, this row with him and we see some of the same cases that that are kind of just sitting there. There is some movement and some time it's slow movement, but what are we doing to contain the cost and then Delk
President Pro Tem I mean, I the the way it works and I think it works wonderfully is that these contracts have to be approved by you at least every two years. So that this honorable body is aware of who's doing what on behalf of the City of Detroit. Take the tax cases. That we had that case. Those three cases, President Pro Tem are still going on and had been going on since 17. It's gone. From the circuit court, to the tax tribunal to the Michigan Supreme Court, back to the tax charge, backs tribunal back to the circuit court. And now it's going back to the tax tribunal. It's difficult to predict how to manage these cases. And what we can always do is as your colleague Councilperson Johnson knows, we can always come in and settle. But some of the cases are so consequential that we have to fight all the way to the bitter end. And it's difficult in the more complex cases to figure out where the end is going to come. One of the issues that just popped up under the broad framework of bankruptcy. You saw where police and fire retirement demanded that the allocation of risk go from 30 years to 20. City of Detroit, responded to that demand went to the bankruptcy court and said we wanted to maintain the 30 year risk allocation. They're now appealing. That's the bankruptcy judge's decision in that case. And so once again, we are re engaging with Miller Canfield to let re litigate on issue that as you know President Pro Tem has been decided at least twice. So I think I don't think that what we're confronted with in the vast majority of the cases that we're dealing with is any any lack of diligence or focus either on the part of the department or the outside legal counsel to get these cases handled and quote concluded. And I think that the difficulty comes with the size or the risk associated with the matter at hand and whether or not settlement is a good and adequate response for the city of Detroit and in some of these extremely complex cases. The answer is absolutely not going from 20 to 30 years under the police and fire demand would cost the citizens of Detroit on an annual basis. About $20 million with no more increase in pension fund viability or only a fraction that really is not going to be noticed by the investment community or the rated rating. Agencies. $20 million less of opportunity for this body to support the citizens of Detroit is worth continuing to battle over until we win the day and don't have to settle on some agreement level that we think would not be in the city's best interest. So I know what's a long unsatisfactory answer president pro tem, the less consequential cases and again, I really can lean on a council person Johnson. If this is just a slip and fall and it's $15,000 and we can get in and get out. And we beat the plaintiff's attorney back from the original 45 They were asking for. We can cut it off and be done with it. As the risk goes up, the length of time that it takes is also going to go with it. And I again, I don't know what else we can do. It's not for lack of effort. It's not for lack of diligence.
Digging Deeper the reason why these firms are brought on is it more in terms of capacity, meaning the you may not have the bandwidth on the city attorney's side of things, or is it more about the expertise, expertise? So expertise? Yeah. So how do you analyze again, trying to ensuring that maybe there is a turning point or an area within the case that could be different based upon either your experience with someone from the law department to guide them in a different direction, seeing that, if they would have made a move, it could have reduced exposure challenges, whatever it is, talk to us about how you analyze these these. So
yeah, that's a very fair question President Pro Tem and and what I'll say is, is that just because the law department doesn't have the particular subject matter expertise, does not mean that we don't have a general and in fact, almost expert understanding of the issues that are involved. You know, the the the truth of the matter is, as for all of the difficulty that he and I experienced together, Chuck Raimi was one of the most brilliant lawyers to walk the face of the earth. And when and and and Jim Nisida, who was the new deputy Corporation Counsel 29 years of experience litigator from a big both New York and Chicago law firm who returned home to city Detroit to do the work. That the council person Johnson was describing. There are lawyers throughout the department who are similarly versed in their areas of expertise. I say all that to say this, just because Peter crow said who is a very, very skilled tax attorney who is doing work with us, now that Mr. Gray me has left on our tax cases and who was a part of the team prior to Chuck's leaving. There's nothing about what Peter is doing that we don't understand the subtleties associated with the law being applied and the precise calculations and the endless questioning of witnesses that has to occur. There's no question that Peter is expert and we're glad to have him the overall assessment though, of strategy and the progress that the case is making, under the supervision of myself, James Nisida, Eric Gobbo crystal, crystal Crittenton, you've got some we miss president pro tem. There's no the lawyers may have a particular set of skills, but they're, we're going to be able to help them shape their strategy. And we're someone being purposely dilatory us we would know. I can assure you of
that. And we have not confronted any of that during
if we had sir, we would not be dealing with these people. We would not be dealing with him at all. I mean, there there is. There is a privilege of working on behalf of the City of Detroit. That I think all of our outside counsel people recognize and they worked very diligently to be sure that the client relationship is intact and they would not do anything unethical in terms of delivery of service.
Thank you for that. My other question is, I know that as of October of 23, my records here have we had 19, open reverse conviction cases. And that is totaling a amount of one points. I'm sorry, excuse me. 164 point 75 million in reserves to resolve those cases. Yes, sir. I know I sent a memo back in 22. And responses to the office inquiry indicated that the department was committed to exploring an ordinance that would remove skewed and that would move the city away from litigating these cases to utilizing a less costly, yet equitable, equitable means of settling these claims. How soon May we see the research findings or the actual ordinance that's promised
so I would love to see what they sent you. Because that's not been shared with me. And so President Pro Tem if somebody has a better idea, they've not shared it with me and I'd love to know what it is.
Okay. We'll make sure we get you that. Thank you. That memo. We have here will make sure you have it will also submit the rest of our questions in writing. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. We're Santiago Ramiro. Thank you,
Madam President. Good morning, morning. The questions that I have have been asked I do have concerns around our Mr. Our risk management also had questions around FOIA. I'm also hearing concerns that people are not hearing responses from us as they should so thank you member Callaway for bringing up that issue. I will focus my question on. Just want to get some insights to see if the law department has been working with the 36 district courts on moving the needle to security technology that is needed to process municipal civil infractions as opposed to misdemeanors. This has been a competition going on for years. Last year when we talked to the courts, they mentioned that having funding. So wondering, have these discussions been happening and what's been talked about so far?
So I do know this council person that 36 D got a state grant of almost $7 million dollars for them to upgrade their technology. They got that at the same time that we received the $2 million for RTC for right to counsel. So I don't know what the chief judge and his team have decided they're going to do with the money that they received. But the opportunity that you're describing is definitely there. They've now got dollars that will allow them to improve their operating system
through the chair wonderful. I know the the next piece will be the infrastructure to make sure we have the staff to manage that. But that is good news. We can follow up with them on Monday. I believe there'll be here in front of us as well. My next question is about making sure that we have attorneys readily available to I'm thinking about two things right now wine when it comes to the right to counsel, and the outreach that we're doing, and I can only assume that in the courts you have people ready to do translation services, but are we is is are we preparing? Our trainings are partners that are going to be working in right to counsel to properly communicate with folks that might be speaking that might be Spanish or Arabic speakers.
So 36 D and by contract each one of our service providers are supposed to have that capability council person. And I can get Miss Conley to respond more directly to that question for you. And we'll we'll do that in writing.
Thank you through the Chair. Thank you. I'm wanting to make sure the materials that council President mentioned are also in Spanish and Arabic. We have renters that mean that speak English that need to meet that need to be will afford these these these services. In that same vein about language access and making sure we have attorneys prepared. I believe we've been working with Clark Hill to supports residents that are that that may be requiring our services similar to member Callaway, you know trying to make sure that we're recruiting black and women attorneys what is our outreach to make sure that we are working with attorneys that might be prone and prepared to work with our immigrant communities.
JC Have you got the recruitment for the past year the right okay. And and and in part of the written response to a question presented by a constant person Callaway she asked about outreach. letters have gone out number one, but number two, I personally called all of the specialty bars and have been in touch with them and made sure that they know how to access our website and and that kind of thing and we have I think that we done we could always do more but I do think that when we get and we I tried to have it for you this morning. We didn't we didn't quite get a chance to pull that together. The hires that we have made I'm sure as relates to both women and minorities have been have been very vigorous and I'm proud of the record and we'll get you in writing what the results have been
through the Chair. Thank you. I appreciate that and grateful that member Johnson puts staffing Executive Session. Just want to make sure that we are recruiting diverse attorneys staff that are able to meet the rest of the needs of our residents. Thank you for Council. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you so much Member Santiago Romero. Just one quick question on over assessment. And I'm going to start to talk more about this. I think more education is needed to the general public about where the city stands. One it from a legal perspective, because I think again, there is a lot of push for counsel to act and we are we can't because of the legal opinions that have been given to us. So I know there was a 2020 legal opinion I think that was done and then a supplemental one was done after regarding tax credits, and the one that was done the supplemental memo reference the 2020 opinion. I guess my question was, was that ever lifted? Do you know offhand so that the general public can see why from a legal standpoint, we are being informed that we cannot provide either cash compensation or tax credits to those who are over assessed.
Let me get copies of both of those opinions. I am sure that and let me get with with Tanya is that I don't over speak but I can I can. Let me say it this way. With no hesitation. I'll check with my team at this point off the top of my head. I can't see any reason why we couldn't live to privilege the people that understand how it was that we came to the conclusion that we did, and we'll definitely be back in touch with you about that.
Okay. Yep. And I'm not sure if the law department can do this. But I just think more education around the lending of credit and why we cannot do those two options will be helpful, and I'm not sure the law department is rolling this but you know, just for the administration to come out and say, Hey, we can't do it. The money's been used and went to the school system, and it's just hey, it's, um, you know, I can't do anything besides just actually explaining these two different reasons why we're not able to provide would be helpful. So.
So, Council President, I mean, the give us a chance to think about that and I mean, I think that we can write some kind of position paper that could be available that kind of answered these questions.
Something online on the site, you know, what happened where the money went the lending of credit why tax credits cannot be used. Why? cash compensation, like a FAQ, frequently asked questions, very simple. And then what we're doing I know, we have the effective homeowners program that's coming for it for very soon. But again, I want to at least be able to provide the education that I think is missing, so I can
say and I'm grateful for the opportunity to do this. You all know Jasmine Barnes. She's part of the media team now for the administration. So she will be in touch with your team council president so that we can get the questions that you want answered. get them answered, and then we can figure out the kind of social media website based presentation that Jasmine most particular that on behalf of the administration would think would be effective, so we'll we'll definitely start that process.
Okay. And in the interim, just wanted to follow up on the weather it was live. And so we'll follow up with you guys on that. Okay. All right. Thank you for your time. Thank you for all the work that our attorneys do. We appreciate you guys. And thank you for being here.
Thank you very much. I
just like to also place into executive session conversation regarding the 19 open reverse conviction cases that ordinance that we discussed.
Okay, any objections? Hearing none that action will be taken. And you want to add something number cowboy
Madam Chair. I do believe councilmember Johnson did put the entire y'all BB so that's going to include the FOIA division.
If you want it. You want us to separate it. Director Whitaker. I know she put the entire law department in Executive Session. She wants to specifically talk about FOIA
I think I think it would be better to pinpoint the item that you want as opposed to because it becomes rather confusing to decide exactly what what you should be focused on in Executive Session. So if you can be particular, that would be far better.
Okay, so remember Callaway? Yes,
Madam Chair. I'd like to put the the whatever part of the budget the law department's budget has focused on or devoted to the four year division into Executive Session. Madam Chair, thank you.
Okay. Hearing no objections that action will be taken. And I think member Johnson's was not the whole department. It was just the salaries for the attorneys within the law department. So make sure you all have that Mr. Woods. Yes,
we get we get to. All right.
Thank you. Have a great day. We're moving right along our next budget hearing will be the board of ethics.
Good morning, Director Phillips and when you want to proceed, the floor is yours.
Good morning, honorable city council members. My name is Crystal Phillips. I'm the Executive Director of the board of ethics. Before I begin the presentation, I would like to introduce some of the board members and staff who are here today with us to lend their support. I am honored to have next to me Mr. Michael O'Connell. He is our ethics training specialist and he will assist me in presenting today. He will discuss the ethics training program and the need for an independent learning management system to adequately train all of our nearly 10,000 public servants behind me Oh, right there is is our new board chair Curran Pinkins, who was appointed by City Council last year. Mr. Pinkins previously served as chair of the Wayne County ethics board and we are grateful to have his leadership and his experience in governmental ethics. And behind us we also have our senior investigator Don Whitman. She is our longest standing staff member here at the board and she brings a wealth of knowledge in investigatory work and the governmental sector. So the board is tasked with the implementation and administration of the ethics ordinance. Our work is to promote an ethical environment in the city of Detroit and we do that through our many services including requests for advisory opinions, complaints, training, education and our community outreach and presentations. As public servants. Trust is from the public is earned through transparency and ethical behavior. Public service is public trust. So our team consists of board members and our staff. I'm very proud of all the accomplishments that we've made this year. The board members are unpaid volunteer members, but they have gone above and beyond what is required of them as dedicated citizens of Detroit, and who wants to make the city better and our government operate more efficiently and ethically. So I'm grateful and appreciative of the hard work and commitment of all our board members and staff. The board of ethics is a seven member body. Three members are appointed by the mayor. Three members are appointed by city council, and there is one joint appointment made by city council and in the mayor's office. We currently have five board members. Kron Pinkins who is our chair, Kristin Lawson, who is our Vice Chair, Dr. Yvette MC, Elroy Anderson, Dr. Jamil Smith, and Robert watts. I would like to take this opportunity to thank City Council for assisting the mayor's office in filling the joint appointment earlier this month with the appointment of Dr. Jamil Smith. We are excited to have her on board. However, as you see, the board still has two vacancies. We have a mayoral vacancy and one city council vacancy that has been open since May 31 of last year. So filling those seats is crucial to our ability to hold a quorum we try to have monthly meetings, even though we are required per the administrative rules to have four meetings a year in 2023. We had seven meetings. So we want to quickly address requests for advisory opinions. And if we can meet every month we can do that. And that's sometimes a challenge when you do not have a full board available. I always welcome names from city council to fill seats and I hope we can work together to have that city council vacancy seat filled this year.
The board of ethics is located on coachable at the butzel Family Center. We are a small but mighty staff of four people the executive director, Don Whitman, our senior investigator, our training specialists, Michael O'Connell, and our administrative assistant Harun Alice. Even though we're a small staff, we work hard to provide a wide range of services and learning opportunities for both our public servants and the public. So this photo is of our regional ethics conference that we held last spring. It was the first conference of its kind in Detroit, and it brought academics and public servants from all over Metro Detroit, and the state of Michigan to the city of Detroit to our office to discuss governmental ethics and common challenges, challenges among ethics boards. So the services we provide include Arios that is short for requests for advisory opinion. And that is a written opinion of the board addressing a question of ethical conduct by a public servant. And REO must concern the requesting public servants own conduct. A complaint is a sworn statement alleging a violation of the ethics ordinance against a public servant. Any member of the public may file a complaint with the board where a person believes there has been a violation of the ethics ordinance. And there is training. Mr. O'Connor Mr. O'Connell is a one man operation of the ethics training program at our board. Our office is mandated by the ethics ordinance to provide training to all public servants. Mr. O'Connell is available for in person training, and you will see him doing outreach at City events to meet with public servants and answer their questions on ethics and our services. However, Mr. O'Connell as effective as what he, as he does, in his position is just one person, which is why supplemental online training is so imperative to fulfill our mandate of training everyone in our city. I would like to thank City Council for recommending the allocation of ARPA dollars last year in its closing resolution. However, that resolution was not supported and those funds were not granted. Mr. O'Connell will provide more details later in this presentation on why an independent learning management system administer administered by our office is crucial to providing robust online training to our nearly 10,000 public servants.
Our community outreach and presentations. As I mentioned, we had an ethics conference last year. Our entire staff including myself, Mr. O'Connell and Miss Whitman, have made presentations at universities and conferences, as well as at City events like Monday morning live employee resource fairs. Last month, we were at the de dot Employee Resource Fair and last year we we're at the Employee Resource Fair. So we are always trying to be out in the community and at our city sponsored programs to answer questions. The board may initiate an investigation if there's evidence of potential violation of the ethics ordinance. investigations may also arise from complaints. And if someone files a complaint where the board finds there is sufficient evidence to constitute a violation of the ethics ordinance, we may initiate an investigation and finally disclosures. So disclosures have been spotlighted in the media recently, disclosure requirements apply to all public servants. They are important because it helps to ensure that governmental decisions are made in the public's interest and it gives an advance warning of potential conflicts of interest. Which brings me to the Detroit Free Press article published on March 17. And one of our main goals moving forward. The series of articles published by the Detroit Free Press since 2023, brought to the board's attention that there are different disclosure forms being proffered through the city. Some of the information contained in these disclosures coincide with board of ethics disclosures. We are in the process of analyzing that data and will be reaching out to individuals needing to file board of ethics disclosures in light of the recently released information. Our goal is to work with city departments to ensure that all disclosures under city auspices are unified filing ethics disclosures is City of Detroit law. And we want to make sure that the ethics disclosure requirements are being met and that everyone is following them. We only received 13 disclosures in 2023 and that should be much more. So we will be working on that this year to increase those numbers. I wanted to highlight some of our activities last year in 2023. We received 18 Arios issued 10 advisory opinions and two letters of advisory recommendations. The board declined to issue opinions for some of the Arios received for various reasons as applicable under the ethics ordinance, for example, if conduct in the RA O has already passed or the issue presented was moot. The board voted or determined that it was not merit for review. A letter of advisory recommendation is something new. That was started last year because due to a lack of quorum, we had several articles expire. Based on our ordinance timeline. However, we still wanted to provide guidance to the public servants who is who applied for returned an REO. The letter is not an official opinion. But we didn't want the public servants to go without a response just because of a technicality that their reo had lapsed. And as I stated earlier some months we are challenged to have a quorum because last year we were operating with four members for most of the year. We had a total of 11 complaints, two pending investigations one completed investigation and held two hearings. We continue the working group that I established in late 2022 to revise the ethics ordinance and the administrative rules and I am planning to finalize the administrative rules this year and then our staff will return to revising the ethics ordinance and I'd like to thank councilmember durchaus office for being a part of those working group meetings. In 2023. I reimplemented the annual board training for board members. So that was the first time we had training for board members since 2018. None of our board members are registered parliamentarians. So we had experts in Robert's Rules of Order and the open and Open Meetings Act because board members have to efficiently run our monthly board meetings in line with the OMA and the Robert's Rules of Order and last year we were implemented funds are allocated funds for wing swept which is our case management system. And that was implemented at the Office of Inspector General and the office ombudsman of ombudsman in 2017 and Creo in 2019. With wings swept we have expanded our case management capabilities to track complaints investigations disclosures and Arios. Further activities we created a gifts disposition, disposition procedure. So we have a $0 prohibition of on gifts in the city. So if a public servant receives a gift, they should return that to the they should turn that into the board of ethics office. So we have updated our forms. And we have also donated some of those gifts to non conflicting entities in Metro Detroit. Some of the ethics presentations that our staff members have done. Mr. O'Connell and Miss Whitman, were panelists at the conference for governmental ethics. I presented several times at the University of Michigan Ford School of Public Policy, and Mr. O'Connell also presented at Harvard University. So I am very proud of our staff to go out there and make connections with academics and and other governmental officials around the country. And we also did several benchmarking and professional development trips. So I met with several offices in DC to exchange ideas and best practices on ethics. That included the board of ethics and governmental accountability in DC, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, the campaign Legal Center and the Baltimore City Board of ethics. Michael O'Connell also met with the New York City conflicts of interest board and the Massachusetts states Ethics Commission, and our investigator Don Wittman attended the osmosis conference on cyber intelligence, intelligence investigation. And again, we held our first regional ethics conference at the Board of ethics and we hope to have another one this fall. And we had many ethics offices from around Michigan including Lansing East Point Birmingham, Macomb, Macomb County, as well as our public servants who attended the conference. Now I will give the floor to Mr. O'Connell, who will explain more in more detail about our ethics training and why we are requesting funds for a learning management system.
Good morning, everyone. Thank you very much for having us. So the board of ethics as director Phillip stated is the only oversight agency mandated by city of Detroit law to provide its own training to public servants. That includes elected officials, contractors and vendors, and all employees appointees, commissioners, any anybody you can think of as a public servant and under the ordinance 2023 did show a marked decline in our training. In 2022 we train 4836 individuals 2023 We were able to train 1041 And a lot of that has to do with the lack of flexibility in our online training program and also the fact that as one person and with a lack of information we weren't really able to map out which departments to target for training. To that end, the board has taken a number of steps to attempt to increase training participation throughout the city. We train we changed the training frequency from an industry practice of annually for all public servants to a bi annual schedule. So we were our aim is to train 50% of the city each year on a rotating schedule so every two years, public servant will receive ethics training, in hopes that the online portion of our training can stick and also provide answers for any questions and guidance in the interim. We're focusing more on in person training than online training. We've developed department specific trainings because not every department needs every little bit of the ordinance. That's what the board is for is to help guide them through that process. But there are some issues that appear more in different departments than others. So we want to make sure that we address those those departments and personalize that training for each department that we train in person. We've planned a number of high visibility community outreach events for this this year. A lot of them being in the warmer months when we can be outside and participating in the community. help get our public servants away from their desks up some up and moving, get their blood pumping and get their brains working and focus on the ethics ordinance. In those moments. So look out for us, inviting you to those we hope to see you there. A number of them will be in spirit Plaza and then at different locations throughout the city to serve our public servants best. And that brings us to our current requests this year for funds for our independent learning management system. Currently, the board utilizes a platform called EZ generator. That administrative license belongs to the human resources department. And while we were very appreciative of them helping us set that up during COVID When the pandemic necessitated online training only that system is no longer sufficient for our needs. We are unable to make changes ourselves and ethics issues are constantly evolving and appearing throughout the city and we want to make sure that our public servants have the best and most recent information on those issues and the best guidance that the board can provide in the moment. The system is a great foundation, but we need something more robust and administrative fluid controlled by the board to be able to edit it at any time to fix what's not working to improve upon what is and to make sure that we're providing the best training possible. To our public servants in the city of Detroit. We will be keeping EZ generator and developing our own administrative license, which is in this current budget allocation. It's a $6,500 license to allow us to have a public facing training as well. Easy generator doesn't require licenses, but it also doesn't report data the way that we need it from trainings on public servants. So our public facing side will give citizens of the city the opportunity to engage with the board of ethics. Learn more about the ordinance and what our services are and how we can help them to maintain that public service as a public trust. And I look forward to your questions on our training
program. All right, thank you. That concludes Yes. All right. Thank you. Thank you to the board. Thank you again for all the work that you are doing for the presentation. Start off by stating that we are going to expeditiously get that vacancy field. Collectively we'll make sure that that is done. I'm sorry. Okay, just want to make sure that we will make sure that that is done expeditiously. Okay, thank you for bringing that to our attention and making sure that we're on it. Wanted to you touched on community engagement. So I will leave that portion alone. You mentioned that we put funding already in the budget last year through ARPA, and that was for the independent learning management systems.
So through the chair, council recommended 150,000 In ARPA funding, we had requested 125,000 However, those funds were not granted. I did not receive an explanation as to why that way.
So I'm assuming we put it in our closing resolution urging and so it wasn't actually an allocation of the funds. So we will if there's a motion add the request in the request is for 150 or the 125. you're requesting 120 Okay, okay. Just want to be clear, that we will is there a motion to add the $125,000 for the board of ethics for the independent learning management system? So move? Okay, Hearing no objections, we will add that to our Executive Session. The only other question I have is regarding the length of time it takes for a request for an opinion to be received with a public servant is to request an opinion. Can you speak on the length of time that it takes and how you all are we trying to reduce that time to receive those or to initiate those
we have through the chair we have created an internal procedure to expedite those opinions. The issue is not having a quorum. So if you see in our our annual report that will be issued on April 1. At the top of the report, it shows when we had the meeting, and when that was approved and then at the end of the report, you see a date and that's when the report or the opinion was actually sent out by our office to the requester and you'll see that you know I I pride myself in sending those opinions out immediately, sometimes within a day or two days, at most, maybe a week. But the problem is that if the board doesn't meet for one to three months because of a lack of a quorum, then that is what the really delays the issuance of those opinions.
Okay, and so in order for the opinion to be given, it has to go before the board. Exactly. And you are me even with a quorum typically how often are you meeting because I know that that was an issue I've heard raised is that you know, a lot of times when people are requesting opinions, it's something that's pretty urgent, and if the board has to meet that could be 30 days, 60 days and you know, whatever the situation there needed an opinion on may have elapsed by then so yes,
ma'am, cause present so the ordinance requires the board meet four times a year. Last year we met seven. So we're on an average of like every two and a half months or so. We are working to fix that issue. The appointment of Dr. Smith recently, will, I believe help to address that timeline issue. The ordinance also provides a 91 day timeline for each matter that comes before the board with an optional extension of 91 days. So we'll also be in our recommendation for ordinance amendments in the future. We'll be recommending some changes to the process to help assist with that decrease in time as well.
Okay. Okay,
great. All right.
That is all I have. And we will go to questions from colleagues and member Callaway.
Thank you Madam Chair. And good afternoon, everyone. I'm Director Phillips. How many board members do you have? Currently,
through the chair? We currently have five board members and we should have seven we should so there are two vacancies at the moment.
Okay, so of the five how many regularly attend your meetings? Are you not to have a core?
well as through the chair as Mr. O'Connell has stated, we met seven times last year. We are always aiming to have monthly meetings. I I really can't say I believe that all of our board members make the attempt to attend board meetings. However, when you only have four members. It is hard to have a quorum if just one person decides or not decides but has something come up they all have full time jobs they have personal commitments. And naturally you may have one board member who cannot make a meeting and if one board member cannot make it we cannot hold a meeting if we only have four board members which we did have lat most of last year and so we're thankful to have that fifth member this month with Dr. Jamil Smith. But we would love to have a full board. I
think you also how many investigations that you conduct last year in the year of 2023.
I believe in the presentation we stated that we had we had completed two investigations
over fiscal year you complete it to Yes. Okay. I
believe we also have several pending investigations. So
you have two investigations for the entire fiscal year of 2023. And of those two investigations how many led to an actual hearing
to yes through the chair. Actually
the investigation automatically leads to a hearing correct,
Madam cast member through the chair investigation. Specifically there are multiple types of investigations that happened within the board's action. So there are self initiated investigations the board can take up matters on their own and investigate them that way. There are investigations done in relative in relation to complaints, even if they don't turn into hearings. And then, but we don't call those investigators we use fact finding for those. So every matter that comes before the board there is some form of fact finding done. So we are looking into the matters in the background on all of them. But officially those numbers for investigations. Were only two.
Okay. Thank you so much. I have other questions but Madam Chair, I make a move to put the board of ethics budget into executive session. Thank you Madam Chair and thank you all.
Thank you is a specific area or
the entire board of ethics budget. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.
All right, any objections on adding the entire budget to the board have to the executive session? Okay, hearing none, that action will be taken. Councilmember waters
right, so thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um you guys have already laid out some of some of your needs and soul. So thank you for sharing that because that was some of the questions that that I was going to ask. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't completed though online when I started. And I didn't finish it. So I'm looking forward to to come into the one in person. Frankly, it's some of the things that you pointed out here because as a former state legislator, I'm used to having much more of a broader ladder to you know, and so, this is this is different. Needless to say, but I think there's something that I'm going to suggest that my colleagues and I take a look at because that, you know, I think we should do that. But But I want to ask you a question. Has anyone here ever run for office that sits on this board that's sitting there right now?
By the amount of cure. Good morning, this, Councilwoman and I'm Khurana pinkies. Idea run for office. I ran for state senate. I used to actually work for this body here back in 1993 to 1995 I worked for Detroit City Councilman Council under former Councilman Cleveland. So I used to be in his body and actually it looks a lot different from when I was down here years ago. guys really did a
great job. I didn't recognize you.
Yeah, I grew to beard. I look a little different. But yeah, I did run for state senate. I actually 2013 I did run for actually this body. So some of you I do know, I do run for state senate to again I think in 2018. so
and so. So so with that. Do you have any any perceived biases of any Council? Member any of us that are currently serving in Are you able to, if one of us had to come before You Are you able to say conduct such a hearing, you know, with with respect, and and and without any bias that kind of thing? Are you sure? Sometimes when you no matter people run for office, they believe that they know best that you know when they may or may not like a certain council member for whatever reason. I mean, I don't know I'm just asking you that question because I know that that happens sometimes.
That's a great, great question. Councilman. Thank you for that. No, I have no bias against anyone here like say many of the people sitting here. I have friends of mine. I see them as friends. I've met you most of you. And your family's great people have no bias against anyone I am an attorney by trade. So I'm an immigration attorney. I do some civil work. I moved. I'm born and raised in Detroit. I lived in Massachusetts in Boston for a number of years when I was a litigator. So some of the litigators style of me does come out sometimes and I apologize for that because again, I am an attorney. That's what I do by trade. We last mentioned we conduct all our meetings using the Robert's Rules of Order format. I did do the same thing. When I was chair of the Wayne County ethics board. We had many public officials come before the board, various complaints of matters that we heard. We conduct them on a similar same combat fashion. There's no bias against anyone we allow everyone to speak. And after they conclude, then we go into our deliberations. So again, everything is done according to Robert's waters. There's no bias or any animosity or anything like that, counsel.
Thank you attorney. Thank you. So is that true for the remainder of you as well?
Through the Chair, I just want to make it clear that my integrity is not for sale. I follow the rule of law and I expect that from my board members as well. So we can't bend the law for anyone. It doesn't matter if who you are in this administration or city council, and I believe Mr. Pinkins has that same belief. It doesn't matter if that person is his friend or his neighbor. If that person comes before our board, we follow the same rules for everyone. Okay, I
would just curious, you know, so, thank you. I appreciate that. You know, I'm just sitting it's kind of chicken out everybody that wants to ask those questions and and so certainly let me know how we can help you to strengthen those things. But I do believe that. I'll be asking that, that my colleagues that we all take a look at at the whole thing just so that I can better understand some things myself. All right, then. Thank you so much, Madam President.
Thank you member waters, potentate.
Thank you, Madam President. I'm no questions at this time. We definitely need to make sure that we fulfill our obligation and get the additional members on the board and I'm going to make a renewed commitment to do so on my and also some of the other concerns that you have as well. So the budget had been placed in executive session and I have no additional questions. Thank you, Madam President.
All right. Thank you pro tem Council Member Santiago Ramiro. Thank you, Madam
President. Good morning. Good. To see everyone. I also have no questions supports the ask of the 125 happy that we put in an executive session. And also just wanted to notes. Thank you for making the training bi weekly. I took my ethics training the first year. Last year I didn't because I wasn't sure what the frequency was, and quite frankly, yours come up pretty fast. So it wasn't a thing of I didn't want to actually love it and appreciate it and wholeheartedly support it, but witnessed myself how difficult it was and how fast time goes by. So the bi weekly frequency or bi annual frequency should work really well. So thank you for considering that. Because I want to be on top of my of my testing. Every time I'm supposed to be on top of it. So thank you for looking at that process at the technology that's needed to make sure that's more streamlines. Given that information, I guess I do have a question. Should we take our ethics training this year? Again, if it's gonna go every two years if we took it last year already? Um,
yes through the chair. So earlier this year, I presented public comment before this body our training schedule for this year and city council is up because we know that next year is an election year for you. So we want to make sure that we're not in conflict with any activities. You have planned for that. And also to make sure that council members are educated and their staff on how the ethics ordinance interacts with election activities. So your office has already scheduled your schedule eight in the first week of April, I believe. So thank you very much for doing that. But we have sent emails to all your all your offices. It's a 90 minute training. It usually lasts less time than that, depending on the questions. I come to you. And we talked about the ethics ordinance because I got a degree in ethics and I'm a nerd about it. So and we were just there to answer your questions and I'll provide guidance. So we want to make sure that that you're prepared for all that is to come in commission of your position. So yes, this your first city council, yes.
Through the Chair. Thank you. And I'm realizing this is now year three. It's no longer you two understood so we're up for training Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you, council member council member Johnson. Thank you, Madam
President. And good morning to you all. Mr. O'Connell, thank you for continually reaching out to my office to get those board positions field. I will make sure that I reached out to my colleagues maybe in a different way. Because I do know that we have emailed my colleagues asking for anyone that they may know. That would be a good fit for the board, but we'll make sure that we our teams have some conversation around it. I actually did have someone in the district expressed some interest in being on the board so we'll just sit down and have a conversation with her and see if it's a good fit and if need be. Move forward with an interview. I do want to ask a couple of questions. I'm not sure if you all listen into our meetings, but there have been some public comments about various boards and their ethics or people having concerns around them being ethical in the decisions that they make. And so I know you indicated in the presentation, how complaints are are received. And I'm just wondering if you listen to any of those public comments and take it upon yourself to perhaps investigate.
Yes, we regularly received phone calls and emails from the public and public servants with questions or complaints and we instruct them on how to follow the process on how to file a complaint. And as I stated anyone can file a complaint against a public servant in Detroit and the board will address that. Okay,
excellent. That's, that's great to know. So when I have individuals calling into iOS, I will ensure I don't direct them appropriately to be able to do so. My other question is relative to the board itself. How does the board ensure ethical practices within itself? Is there an internal oversight system in place for the board?
So the ordinance the
process for discipline and or removal from the board being from within the board itself so any member can bring that before the body at a meeting? We do have our annual board training scheduled for tomorrow, actually. So as of right now, there's no formal process but we're we're we would be happy to add that into our schedule for tomorrow. I'm gonna address that and then we can contact your office with those results. Okay. Excellent. I appreciate that. And lastly, I just want to make sure that our entire team needs to understand that they are required to go through the ethics training as well because I know some of my team members were not sure if it was required for them. And I would love to know if there were any team members that did not complete the required training last year that was sent to us. Then the other thing is, if there is a way for us to elevate the need for training because we get a lot of emails and I didn't see the reminder I saw the reminder and I took it at the probably about 1130 the night that it was due. But I did get it in and I had seen it and kept saying oh I gotta take that train. I gotta take the training and then I remember to take it, but if there's another way to remind us as opposed to an email that would be greatly appreciated. And lastly, I just want to say that Dr. Smith had an amazing interview. And so I'm looking forward to her joining the board and getting really involved and engaged with the board. Thank you very much. We'll reach out to your office three chairs will reach out to your office and definitely work with you to help with our visible visibility issue. Any public servant in the city of Detroit is required training by the ordinance so if you work for the city are appointed or elected or a contractor or vendor or a lobbyist you are required to take our training and a lot of departments dealing with public entities along the lines of like the CDBG grant program. They're the entities applying for CDBG funds are also required to take our training per HRD. So we are developing those relationships with different departments in an attempt to make sure that everyone's educated and I believe that the technological advance of the new learning management system as well as conversations like this one, and then our in person training program will definitely assist in minimizing our lack of visibility and helping to then in turn educate the public as well. Thank you. Thank you so much for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, member Johnson council member Doha. Thank you, Madam President. And now Good afternoon to you all, I have no questions. Again, I just want to thank you for your willingness and what you do you know, every single day my team was delighted to work with you and thank you for engaging them and just pushing ethics forward. I know it is not easy. We have tried to help fill that position as well but it is not the most sought out board to join. As we've offered too many folks in our district that we think would have been great fit but obviously there's not a lot of pay the pay is not high. The hours are demanding so it takes something personal to want to be able to participate. And so I will say I do know in all transparency. Me and Mr. Pink has ran into same Senate race and so I don't see any bias from him. Pretty good. Joseph his character I find them to be outstanding. Gentlemen. So I wanted to put that on a record. But again, just thank you all for what you do every single day and continue to engage on this. And I will do whatever I can to help you as well. I know we're putting this into executive session. And I'd love to support the additional funding. And then talk about the systems as well offline. We get an opportunity. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Council Member Doha. All right, that will conclude all of our questions and thank you to the board. Thank you for the work that you all do. And if there's nothing else that will conclude our budget hearing for the board that board of ethics. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Ah, all right, colleagues, we have a break now. And if there's nothing else to come before us, we are going to stand in recess until our 2pm budget hearing. You will stand in recess until 2pm
