All right. Steering Committee meeting meeting June 17. Report. Steering Committee is in full attendance. Okay. So the topics I had was just like just that for us quick feedback on the new agenda order. Do we have any feedback on that? Because I know we said we do a trial run and collect feedback. So are we okay, without things ordered?
I thought it worked well. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I liked it.
Yeah, I thought it worked. Okay.
I also put it under unfinished business, since we voted on a meeting to get feedback about the new agenda order. So I think July means we have to schedule a bylaw review date, which we can do at the meeting. But I think that's what I have to do. Right? July, since we did it in January. So we have two people now who plan to come to the new member orientation. So maybe we should do another one next month. Like we want to propose to another one.
Yeah, probably. I mean, we could make it like. Well, I only Yeah, we could probably just make it another one. Yeah. I was gonna say we like I think what we were originally planning to do, do you want a quarter, right, like every three years. But if we have more than one person who needs to come do it? You know, we might as well just hold one. If you've
not got, do they not fall under the umbrella of the one next week? Are they not able to make it? Because I know Sean said you can make the one next week.
Yeah, no. So you can make next week, but this is for like next month, I'm just assuming we make continue to get.
Alright, it might be I mean, just, I'm not opposed to doing one next month. But it might be a thing that we just do, like, Okay, we have new members, let's do. Let's plan it. Let's put it on the agenda at our next bearing meeting. And then we'll have it ready for the next meeting. So I
also Bhasma and I are supposed to meet tonight about the mentorship program, I think. So it might be also that in lieu, like if we do orientation, like once a quarter. And then in lieu of that went, you know, on the off months, we just like have mentors meet, but they can like meet as a group, right? Just something that the, we don't have to vote on at the general meeting necessarily.
Yeah. I like that, too. I mean, I'm just thinking, there's gonna be times when we're gonna have a bunch of new members, and there's gonna be times when are we like, no, like, like this meeting, for example, like we're gonna have to, and then we're just like snower just presupposing like, okay, at the next meeting, we'll probably have some new folks too. But it might just be a case by case basis kind of thing. And then with the mentorship, then we might not need to even have them. We could probably actually do one a quarter.
I mean, there is also the potential to attract new people because we're holding any member. Oh, yeah. No, yeah, we can,
I don't think you can hurt because we can always replace it with something else.
You can schedule it and then if like, no one comes like, I think if we have no one signed up ahead of time, and it's only going to be like people we attract through social media posts, then we should probably just not post it. If we have like two or three people that already like knew, then let's follow through with it. Otherwise, just have it be rolling, but only when but only posted if like someone's already in line to come and they've come in person already expressed interest. Yeah,
I yeah, I'm not like I said, I'm not opposed to doing it. I just feel like it's gonna be a thing that we'll know ahead of time, most likely.
Okay, so all my posts on social media, if we already have to us people
interested. Otherwise, we're gonna keep having orientation not saying that this is I like your social media idea. Because otherwise we're gonna have orientations. And it might be like, no new people. Right?
Yeah, just don't do it. Yeah. Okay. And then we will just have to do this as a, I don't know, a side quest post but suggesting a new day for general meeting July 11. Is the second Thursday of the month. Are we going to that like we can just propose it. I just wanted to get a date from
Yeah, I feel like I feel like the next like postponing it for a week is better than doing it on that Friday because that weekend is July 4 weekend like, yeah, you know, regardless of Yeah, nobody's gonna be attending that. It's just not gonna happen.
We canceled the Oddfellows meeting that happened. When we didn't cancel. I think we just all agreed to not.
We all agreed to be too hung up. Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. So I just made that. Yeah,
I wanted to mention on that new member thing, but if we do get new members, we might want to consider, I don't know, quarterly or twice a year or something. Just a new member potluck, or barbecue or something like that. I like to say welcome all you new members. glad you've come and just to turn to the door. Okay, we're growing, get to know people.
That'd be cool, too. Because it could be like an orientation slash meetup. And then we can kill two birds with one stone and be like, Well, if there are new members come and hang out. But if not, we can still hang out like we're still going to have some food.
Yeah, cuz I think like this, because it's so new member orientation focus. Like I think some of our current members won't come because they're like food around eat and others. But if it's a potluck, then yeah, it's a chance to get to know some folks.
And it can't hurt.
Yeah, yes. Good idea. Okay. So the agenda for the next meeting, I just copied that same one as before, we'll have let's try to we went over half an hour last time, but I think I think we went over like 10 minutes what we had before, like, new, like new business, but then then discussing like the social media posts, or public facing material. I think before that, we were only like, 10 minutes over. So I think you did a pretty good job.
The timer works for sure. Yeah. Yeah,
definitely. I mean, you end up kind of cutting people off, but that's kind of the point. So I think worked. Okay.
So sorry, question. Are we going to assign somebody to do timing? Or are we like we just having an actual physical timer? Or what are we doing to keep track of time?
Yeah, so last time, I think, like I was doing on my phone. But if you could have like a visual timer on the computer somehow.
Yeah. Do the white thing. There's
like a stopwatch app. I know in the on the Mac? Like doesn't isn't part of the clock app?
I think so. Yeah. Okay, I can just throw it on. I can throw it on like the laptops, well, then other people can see it online.
But as long as there's like, as long as one of the people who's like in charge of running the meeting is making is paying attention to it, you know? Right. Like we don't need we don't necessarily need it to like be super visible to everyone.
Okay, yeah, that works. I think we did. Yeah, I think, man, you did an okay job last time keeping track.
Do the ancient Greek method where they like put a hole in a cup and it dripped water. And that was the time to speak.
Very good. We could we could try that. Our, our glasses. Big. Oh, that'd be sick. Oh, I'm going on. I'm going on right now. I used to have one
for brushing my teeth. I remember for two minutes. Yeah. Just keep plugging.
Okay, so 15 minutes for intro. 10 minutes for the agenda stuff. 25 minutes again, for the reports of officers. Depending on how this reading group goes, we can ask folks for like a short summary of their thoughts.
Yeah, well, we'll see if anybody actually reads it.
But I think now that we don't have to reintroduce forum and everything we just kind of present or probably go faster than in the feminine. Yeah. Because we kind of ran out of time last time. Yeah, outside of New member orientation, like scheduling another social event. I think we should just do it even though no one came to the last one. And then cabling so Okay, some feedback from the novel to jumpstart campaign. I think canvassing in the parking lot, because actually one of the more difficult things to do in terms of like it just being hard to do if like you haven't done it before, and you're kind of shy or even if you're used to talking to folks that can be very like socially draining like your battery. Because rejection rates around like 50% to 2% plus of people just being like, I don't want to talk to you like
50% would be amazing through rate. None
of people just like will run away from you or I just feel like I'm too busy. probably higher than that, to be honest. And then out of the people you talk to, like, I think 50% Those people actually end up signing, like a lot of people listen to you, and then be like, I'm sorry, I don't have time. And so really, it's like, 20% successful. And that was for me. And I feel like, I'm probably on the higher end to I was, like, I got the most signatures last time. So I think it's draining, I don't want to burn people out, like go to these things. And I feel like this.
The question is what, like, I What was the? Like, I don't mean to, like use startup culture bullshit, but like, what's the ROI on like, handing out leaflets in the parking lot? You know, so
we're not like we're collecting signatures. So you'd like you do end up having to like, talk to the person and be like, you know, Hey, have you heard about Israel or Palestine in the news? If yes, you know, we're, we've been talking to our congressperson about supporting a ceasefire, but he hasn't listened to us. So we're collecting petition that we're not going to vote for Biden, or Carter, for the Democrats to support them unless they stop sending our taxpayer dollars, or using our taxpayer dollars to send weapons over there. Like a lot of people wouldn't like the 20 25%, like, do are on board with all of that, like, but it's like, you know, two to three minute conversation. And then you're getting like their full name, address, zip code. So we can then tell the city council people like, hey, these people legitimately live in your district, and they're out. And I think we have like, 160 so far. Like 30, online, and then everything else in person, like over the last two weekends. So I think that's pretty good. So like, it's working in terms of like, we're getting, like stuff back, but I think that's at least like three, or like four plus people's times each time. So like four people times, three hours times two days, I don't know what the math is on that. Four times three times 224 hours, divided by like, let's say 50. And we keep trying to figure out how many like we're getting per hour, like six signatures an hour is not free. So yeah, so I think, and it's also just draining. And I think we're also locked into like, in terms of our hours for like the tax purposes. We're also like, just doing Palestine. So like Tanner, and Peter were very big on like, trying to set up a table. I am like, pretty sure if we tell like say like St Mark, hey, we want to table for Palestine, they're gonna be like, fuck you. But like maybe if we just say, Hey, we're nonprofit focused on like, tenant rights, like the new like, ballot initiative people. Table? I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I don't know if anyone else does like, some with this. So
well, no, so I'm in my, at least from what I've seen the CIO like Target or whatever will a ballot initiative people sit up front, but often they're like very particular about who they'll let do it. Right. And so I think like, you were saying, if we approach them the right way, they might be willing to let us do it. But
the problem is, is like our other thing, because like, so maybe like, oh, food for less the one across from Louise's place is actually I'm pretty sure it's like work Co Op now. So like, maybe they'd let us do it. But we were also talking about, like, the type of people that are like visiting these places, like, who are more like, oh, that's like, my sign. But you're not actually Chris afterwards, just coming out of those are their dealers. Yeah. I mean, it was pretty good. It was about Costco rates coming. I told
I totally believe you, I, I think I ruined my own chances, because I was in front of Barnes and Nobles. And that's why i i That was what I was getting the most success with, with people just listening to me before. Like, no one would listen to it. Like at Five Below. No one wants to talk to you. Like, they're all just trying to get in there, buy their shit and get out. So it does depend on where you're going.
Yeah, and I think 12 to 130 Was I got two signatures. 12 130 And then I got 16 133.
That's okay. I mean, the other the other half of it that too, which I know is going to be natural, but like, we have to have a protocol for people who are not a voting age because it's a voting age initiative. So it's something we can talk about, but I think if we can naturally have a filter for that, like pick a place where like billards even where we know that like okay, most people going in here over are like a voting age, then for this specific campaign, I think that would have the best results.
Um, if we, if you, like, we couldn't ahead of time pronounce liars for people who are not a voting age with alternative things that they could do to support the, you know, like kind of protests or rallies or kind of meetings or whatever.
Yeah, I just didn't like collecting, I didn't feel comfortable collecting their information personal. Like I was like, a weird thing.
But anyways, for the tabling thing, we could also do the tenant union plus the union stuff, plus this that way for hours, we can add more. That's like two thirds non political stuff. Perfect. So it actually be like adding to that to that column. So yeah, so I don't know, that was just something to bring up. I think we can, like mean that smaller, probably talk to everyone and like, try to schedule something before that. Like, especially since we're not meeting until the 14th, or the 11th. Possibly. But I think that's probably what we're gonna do going forward. I think the parking lot idea is fine. Like, there's no public space. I mean, theater we're talking about, like, where the fuck do you know? So, but I think maybe we can talk to food for less, maybe they'll let us do it like, especially tenant or the union stuff, because there are worker Co Op. I'm a local thing. The food for us?
Well, cuz I saw that they were hiring scabs or something. Yeah, it's not one shop. That just that one.
I think so. Because I've been inside and they did have like, worker Co Op language on the wall. And I was like, Oh, that's cool. And I thought it was like every food for less. And I was like, I didn't know that about food. So that's definitely no
one of their actually, I think they're voting for the whole company. Pretty soon, right?
I think they did last week. So we should last week. Okay. Yeah, the results are probably at this point. But yeah, so. So yeah, maybe we can do it there. And then I think if we can, like ask one by one and kind of see how to word our language to get up there because we can ever table we can have flyers for like tenant union stuff. And then we can still have our clipboards and Palestine stuff. Like at that point, they don't know. Unless they watch this recording. So yeah, so and I think that also goes towards like we've been suggesting, or like talking about tabling for everything and not just Palestine. So we can finally get around to doing that. And we have like four or $500 in the bank at this point. So we can get like stuff printed, like actual flyers and not just at home prints for all our other stuff.
Okay, yeah, they did overwhelmingly vote to strike on 14th Okay,
then we should reach out see if they want to practice or see if we can help them. Talk to what you need.
UFC w 324 I think
I don't think that's a local one been local ones like eight or something. It's been a WS. WC chat. Because I want Yes. To hunt for it. Eight Golden State UFC W
Yeah. Yeah. Ah, yeah.
They it's like they're very clear on their public forum. I got that happen to go to like two different websites where they were like, local 197 is joining us, CW 588. And I'm like, 20 years later, there's another post. UFC w 28 is merging with others to form your CWA. Okay, so we can talk to them. Maybe I'll ask Tanner, is he anything else for you business? Or like calendar business? I think we just have to we have to. I think we'll still have some more canvassing to do for the for the cockroach thing. We do have at this point. I want to say to people, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Yeah, like one person who said they'd organize their neighbors we didn't get back to them in time. Or he wasn't there when I checked. I met finally met the lady that messaged us on the forum. Aren't if you remember Riley? Which one? I don't want to say her name on here. Oh, yeah. Like send me a DM on like the chat on the forum. And I was like, Oh, how did you find this? But I finally met with her she's like gonna Talk to one of her friends that lives in the neighborhood. And I want to say there was like one person who said they talked to like a friend or something. So I think we have two or three people who could potentially be like local, like organizers or like leaders. So that's been like my personal goal is to like find three of those folks, like I'm less concerned about enough signatures for code enforcement. We might have to go like one more time next month to finish it off, like just finished talking to everyone. We made a lot of progress last time. Because a bunch of people went, we had five people out there. And from afar, it does look like a mob of people. Especially with Chris and Chris and Tanner, just like to tell like, it's all around that neighborhood. I
was wearing my khakis because I'd gotten up work. And I was like I probably look a little Mormon not not like suit and tie but it's like who is this large white Arabia who are these two big white dudes, but in the future, I'll wear my WC your T shirt. I just forgot to grab it when I got off work and went right over there.
Now saying we need buttons for like when we don't have a chance to wear our shirts.
Yeah, but oh, yeah, I got the button thing. Yeah, if we want to if we want to, like, I don't know, what do button president do the logo or something? I don't know. I don't know what you guys want to do. But
like a yellow and black version?
Yeah. That'd be a fun activity.
I so the other thing for new members stuff, Riley, if we can put it together, the just role of steering committee, which we just want to clarify of like, like you do hand us some responsibility, but it's to like enable you to do the work that you vote to do. But it's not like we're deciding anything really, we're just wearing our admin hurdles, I guess. And then trying to make decisions in a way that we think you would want. Like you kind of
sorry, you want to you want me to do what now? Oh,
nothing like we should write something up. And then we can preserve? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then I think, yeah, I have that under new business. So if we get to it, we can do it. If we don't, we don't know. And then I had shown this to Riley before, but there's like a presentation on carbon, and we're gonna find constructive out here. Okay. So, just like that, we need to practice some of what we preach, instead of just having it and like, part of that is like constructive criticism. And there is like a president, there's like a shorthand book on constructive criticism. And like, how to engage in like, good faith in that. And like, that's what we use to draft the code of conduct. But you know, just because we have it, and just because someone reads, it doesn't mean they know how to apply it. And since now, we have some time, like, we'll probably have extra time at this meeting, because we're not voting on anything really. Outside of like, the time five minutes for reports of officers and committees, and like, maybe like 15 minutes for, like, the thing and then right, we want to present. Maybe we can, like, read together, like the first chapter or something and like, go through secure the slides. Should I ask, I mean, maybe maybe what
we should do is, like, summarize the primary points of the first section. Yeah, and then just do like a short presentation of that. Because like, the thing that we really need to do to get people to be good at, like constructive criticism, we would need to like, basically set up a roleplay session so that people could practice it, right? Because like, that's the thing that's gonna make people better at it is like, yeah,
that's what I saw. I just uploaded a PDF here. I'll link it here. It's in the meeting folder. But we can kind of go off their slides. But you know, they I think for them, it's like a two part day. So it's long, so I don't think we can get through all of it. But just like whatever. Like we'll put something together and then whatever we think will fit within like 25 minutes 20 minutes and leave it there. Can you just kind of go through this for future general meetings? Maybe this is all we do for like the rest of the year. Yeah, I don't know thoughts. Seems like an important thing to do at this
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, well Are this
alright? Robbie, Chris. The actual book is in our drive
like a good thing to present here. Yeah.
Yeah, like we were present for like 510 minutes. And then we do group practice, you know,
as long as we have clear, defined practice last time, we was a little freeform and I think we were a little loss. Oh,
the asking back and forth. Yeah. Okay. So I guess I'll put it underneath business for under steering committees role.
I think I think that what I think what we need to do is steering committee is to invite people to give us constructive criticism, right? And then, but all but like, try to get them to follow the guidelines, right.
Yeah, I think I could have new members that I know, help. In that workshop, I think they would be excited to try something like that. If there was a format to it, especially. Okay.
And then if it's like kind of a hit, then maybe we can just, like schedule it as like a bowl event by itself. Yeah. But other than that, I think like the last 30 minutes at the end of the meeting, it's probably okay. So okay, let's just do our minutes. Like our timekeeping. So 15 minutes here at call to order roll call intro members in distress. And that also gives us time to start 10 minutes late. Unfinished business was just feedback on the agenda for 10 minutes. Reports of the state of the org basically 25 minutes. So what is that? 2535 for 50. And then scheduling bylaw review, new member orientation. I think it took us like 25 minutes to schedule everything last time, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like because we have to schedule all the canvassing events and cabling events and everything. Yeah. Okay, so that's 50 hour, or an hour and 15 in? I think, so we have an hour and 15. So 15 minutes left.
Oh, do remind me when at the meeting, that when we're when we're setting dates and times and all that stuff to like, mark it down in the on the calendar from the from the meeting notes, or from the presentation? Because like, the, basically like last time, or what I did the last couple of times is as we like made a calendar for the upcoming month. I just like filled it in on the calendar that's at the end of the Yeah. Yeah. And like that way, when we come back to like, look at meeting notes. We can know Oh, we scheduled this, like, you know, six months later, we'll have the notes be like, Oh, that this isn't what we scheduled. All
right. Yeah, I think that was there. But no.
Well, I filled out everything. I filled out a part of it, but I missed like two of them because I wasn't paying attention to the beginning of it.
Okay. All right. So we have 15 minutes left. What this do we want to prioritize steering committee's role or constructive criticism? Of like us to consider principle. Yeah, well, do you want to just put something out anyways? Riley like?
Yeah, let's let me if we're already doing constructive criticism, let's just like do that all the way. And because like, the steering committee's role, like what well, we have an idea of what we want it to be and we can present that might not necessarily be what everyone else agrees to right. But constructive criticism. That's all something we can learn and like do at the same time.
Right would actually be good when formulating steering committee? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, so I just put up the end in case we zoom past everything we can present at the end. But, but I'll put it like, even after approving the minutes, because we forgot to meetings worth the minutes and
we have that much further report of officers and stuff. 25 minutes.
I don't know. I probably not. So, but I'm just giving a space. Yeah. Because we might have like new people at that point. So they might need like a better refresher on like, what the campaigns are about. Yeah. cuz? Yeah, I mean, I think eventually we'll have to vote to make the meetings two hours because this alone is an hour like reports and calendar. But it's literally like we can't function without this hour block. But we probably have like half an hour of like other business to do at a meeting. But whatever for now. It's fine. All right. Anything else to add to the agenda?
Do we want to do a financial report like an official financial report? Or are we just showing a graph because I can make a graph, but I didn't know if we are now. Okay, perfect. I have $30 in cash. I don't know how we're going to dump that into the account. But I can hold on to it. All. Right. That's fine. Yeah, it's I think it's for Pete and Natalie Peterson. So I know whose money it is.
Okay. actually talk to me after because I think you can go into the membership on the on the website. Oh, yeah. Because we added, you can put in like they paid on the state, and then they'll automatically expire the membership on the appropriate date. Program.
We should also start issuing, like, either receipts or membership cards, but that act is receipts basically. But like one of the other add
sounds good. I think that's good.
I think yeah. Okay, we have to fix the email system, because people should be getting invoices, but they're not. Okay. Yeah. So I think once you fix it, we'll just, there's only like, 15 people who have ever paid less, so we can just email them a record? And then should we automatically add a note here? Or just calendar? I lost it already. Events? Okay. Um
All right. Should we now move on to the next session? Yeah. All right. So I think we were just talking before the meeting started. We're just not going to say the member's name for privacy reasons about that 1/3 account did we do. And then although it doesn't really say anywhere in the bylaws that we can, like, have a private meeting for HR reasons. Ravi was saying, probably, we can use our discretion to say we can turn the recording off and we have that. But this part I think should be recorded since we're going to split anonymous and we're talking about a potential policy that
maybe well, actually, maybe what we should do is for right now use our discretion session, but also propose a modification modification the bylaws that allows us to,
to have Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let me just put this in our bylaws.
And for me, this comes back to the acting in good faith thing
that we Yeah, that's probably a good idea.
Yeah, I guess ultimately, our ultimate bylaws, there's a code somewhere in there, like we're gonna act in good faith and whatever. That's really hard. Yeah, it overrides even Robert's Rules.
Okay, not even just even. Robert Ross. Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I wrote up a brief blurb, I guess I didn't read it out loud for the meeting. Actually, it's too long. I don't really want to read all of it. It's in the fucking minutes. But on the February general meeting, we did vote to quote, say that the discourse forum is, quote, the place of record for any votes or any documentation and quote, also that we quote, adopt a culture that anything that members believe can be beneficial by being viewed by other memberships should be posted on the forum. So like, Robbie's talked about how it is kind of our place of like, record, it's not just like, a random, like chat group. Like I don't think any of us would care if we deleted like someone went back and deleted all their posts on the WhatsApp group or something. And I think going forward, my point was, it's like we're very young org, but like maintaining historical continuity is important. In the future, other members are also going to leave like factions may farm and dissolve and leave. And just allowing, like all future members to always anonymize and remove the records or Foreman's records upon departure would just disrupt our record keeping. And like too many removals would obscure, like voting patterns, how other factions voted, and would just lead us with like a, or leave us with an incomplete and potentially misleading history to like, and we wouldn't really be able to understand like, what went wrong, right, like how the order was shaped. And it would just leave the people who are left to really get to shape the origins narrative, because no other narrative like other narratives would not exist. And, like, I just feel like we should clarify that it's not just the forum, like your voting history, your communication records, the stuff you've produced on stuff like Google Docs, they're all key to the work that the membership does. And when you complete tasks, like working on SFP, or doing research, that is advancing like everyone's collective goals, and then removing those could erase valuable work that others may rely on. And some of this could be replaceable, such as minutes about meetings that like everyone else has forgotten about at this point. Four just took a lot of time to do that work. And it's unfair to ask current members to redo the work now, like we're in different contexts, and mindsets. And we should probably just say that joining the VC comes with the understanding that all votes and contributions are recorded. For transparency, they come in part of our club's history, and that there shouldn't be an expectation that you can erase all your records, and contributions upon leaving. And that that's just for sharing accountability, preserving the integrity of our records. And just fostering like a transparent and honest organizational culture that like, you know, like, whatever you post on the forum is gonna be up there, or like, whatever we produce is gonna be up there like Ravi, like I was saying, like, sure you can delete a post, make sure we're not we're not saying like, you never delete anything. But like, we do have a code of conduct that we passed long, long ago that I don't think anyone's ever read. Part of that is what was it? Yeah, yeah. Like knowingly engaging in behaviors that are harmful or disruptive to organizational work. Like doing that, I think, of course, is up to interpretation of like, the membership, I guess. So like, you know, going back and just like manually deleting everything, I think would be disruptive. So we'd probably have to, like, stop you from doing disruptive behavior. But like, so there's no like black and white line between like, what is disruptive and what isn't? Like, you know, 10% of those 5%. Oppose, it's just going to have to be a case by case thing, but I don't know. I don't know if he should make the bylaw. Or I don't even know, like what I'm what I said,
First, from a legal perspective, I think we need to add a clause to joining the organization that says that whatever you post to the forum doesn't isn't yours. It's the organization's because from like a legal perspective, I think we run into like a potential like gray area as far as like, intellectual property kind of stuff, right? Because like you own whatever, like content, you post to a website, regardless, you have the copyright to it, right, which means you also have the right to like, delete it and stuff. So like, unless we like we make it clear that like, the organization, this is like your this is something you're giving to the organization, that might be a potential, like hurdle. So we definitely need to clarify that. So that when people join, they know what's up. But I do think that having the I think that the code of conduct, also, at least in this situation, is a potential. You know, I obviously, it seems very clear to me that deleting all of your content, when you have tons of votes, and you know, minutes and all that kind of stuff would be totally destructive to our ability to maintain a record of the organization and be transparent. So we should make it clear for future people joining.
Definitely. And like you were saying, I prayed that, that in theory eight said that, oh yeah. Well anonymizing it that seems like a decent concession. But for continuity sake, we don't want 50 people in the future to have you know, have a bunch of different Anonymous is there so that we might want to put something in that do that? We don't even do that much going for I heard.
Yeah. I mean, you're free to change your username to whatever. So I guess if they want to change it to like, anonymous, nein, nein, nein, nein, nein, nein then like, I guess if everyone did it, it would like fall under disruptive behavior. Again, and I feel like too many people do it would fall under it.
But also, if a ton of people are trying to delete their content, I think we have a different a whole other different problem. Yeah,
that's true. I mean, it's yeah, for majority memberships. It's like delete everything then, okay. I mean, look, Twitter, ask those to hit whatever the code is. Just bam.
It might take a two thirds or three quarters vote, but we could vote to do that. Yeah. Yeah. It depends on if we put it in our bylaws, or honestly,
that should probably be like a nearly unanimous vote. We
think we voted. Pretty. Yeah. dissolution? What are the take? Two thirds? Yeah, two thirds vote, a steering and two thirds of the membership. Okay. Okay, but I don't know what you guys feel about what I said. And then about Robbie's point about not even allowing anonymous anonymizing I just feel like if it's presented as an easy option, everyone that leaves in the future is gonna be like anonymized and grow Friday,
when going to Riley's point about, you know, making clear what's going on that I'd say going forward that we should allow this member to do
it. But going forward in order you guys,
and even in the future, even if we did that, I'd say we still have, you know, good faith exceptions to if people have concerns about their identity, or, you know, they would just have to be a case by case.
Press What do you think?
I mean, that it's hard, because I mean, I think anonymizing should be our solution this time. And then in the future, we say? That's, I mean, we make, we're gonna have to make a bylaw that says that's not something we do. And that will take a membership vote. But we already did this this time. So we can't we already made that decision to anonymize. But, yeah, we can have this we can continue to discussion about, like, removing posts, but like, I don't, I personally, I mean, as an individual on steering, I think that sounds like something that's gonna have to go to membership, and they're gonna have to vote on it. And they're, we are welcome to try. And, like, I don't, I don't want to dominate anything by saying like, but you have to, you have to present that you're gonna have to present it?
I do. I do think that there's like, two different types of posts, right? I was talking to the person in question. And like, there, there are. Like, if you go, if you go through the history, there's pretty clearly two different types of posts, right, there are, you know, minutes, things that are related to the organization, you know, votes, that kind of stuff. But there's also like, a subset of those votes that are just, you know, replies that like, basically have no meaning, right? They're just, it's just social stuff, right? It's not like, critical to the history of the organization necessarily. And, like, I think that maybe what we should do is create two different, like, classes of posts, things that are related to organizational like bureaucracy, just can't be deleted at all. Right? And things that are not, that's, you know, that's their, like, fair game, maybe. Because, like, that's, I think that's what, like, the real problem that we have here is that, like, there are some things that everybody else is going to rely on in the future. And that's, you shouldn't be allowed to get rid of that stuff. Just at all.
Yeah, I mean, I guess the only concern is like, if you go back and do it yourself, then sure, but it's just like, now someone needs to go back and like confirm that you're not deleting
the wrong they're gonna you're gonna have a hit somebody handhold you Yeah, that was actually the exact problem that
we came up with or like, now that it's anonymized like staring has to go through all of it. I'm sure there's gonna be like gray areas like Okay, your comments about like something on a reading group? Like Sure. It's your personal commentary, and we don't need to rely on it. But like already,
condition of posting it because it might be beneficial for membership on the org or whatever,
right like it was posted for the benefit of membership seeing it It was not just like a hey, or like a law or something, you know? Or like, a clarification on like, hey, this one thing was wrong, like, in the minutes, and now it's addressed to the Minister. Okay. Now, see your comment is not really necessary. But the Edit was made because of your comment. Like, there's just like, yeah, yeah, an annoying amount of like gray area. And yeah, like, I would not want this to frustrating to have to go through this area. So maybe,
maybe what we should do is just make it so you can't delete anything then. Because that like, that kind of solves the problem and doesn't create like a weird double standard.
Yeah, I mean, I guess. So if you delete now, it doesn't delete. It just says one hidden reply. Or, if it's in a thread, it says post deleted by author, which I think like, which I think is okay, like, sometimes you post something, or like, actually, this is not adding to the discussion, and it's gonna delete, but it's still there as like, record keeping, I guess. But I mean, it goes away forever.
I mean, we could just do that where anything that gets deleted, doesn't actually get deleted, it just gets hidden from public view. Which is, that's not exactly the same thing. But like, maybe it would be a you know, appealing to, I don't know.
I mean, you still run into the problem of like, unless you click into it, I
wouldn't be in the position of members coming to us and saying, Okay, what posts are
Muslims saying we should just like not, not just make it so nothing can be deleted? We're just regardless, if you make a bad post too bad, sorry. That's just the way it is. Right? And then deal with it.
I mean, I guess what it really does is like it edits your posts. So instead of your posts, you can type in like post deleted by author. That's basically, that's basically what it does. When you delete a post now, it's like it goes in and edit some posts for you, and so closely to by author, and if you go on the revisions, you can just go see what they originally posted.
So oh, so it is just hiding it then from it's
100. It's not even like you, anyone that's a member can go and look elsewhere, not even hiding folio? No, it's not hidden at all, like whatever you post, it's there forever on the forum, unless you delete a thread, in which case, the whole thing goes away. And I think, unless we delete the user, then I think it all goes away at that point. Like no matter. There's no hiding it. But if you as a user, just go delete something, then it just stays there. You can go look at the revisions, anyone can go with the revisions and see what they said before it just like what you're saying, right? We like they're not allowed to delete. So the forum just instead goes in and replaces their posts with this post was triggered
by author. Yeah. To me, like, I think that as long as the I think, okay, so you kind of get into like, some weird territory here. Like if the person feels like they've deleted it. But it's actually just hidden from public view. Right? That might make them feel better. Yeah, right. But we still have the records that we need.
Yeah, I asked, essentially,
if we're doing that, that seems fine to me. Well,
we can do that. Is the problem. Like we can only delete the whole like, yeah, we can only permanently delete where everything goes away forever. Like, oh, unless we go back in and like delete each post one by one, I think that says closely by author. But I don't want steering to have to delete posts one by one. And it's all it is still disruptive to the conversation because you're like reading it. And you have to be like, Wait, there's like, you have to realize something is missing.
Just get rid of the delete button entirely.
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I guess I want to give people the option because I also delete posts sometimes. I guess I've only delete like customer IDs. Well, I can see the usefulness and like I see on like DSA is forum like people to delete a comment, but it's usually because like, oh, I misunderstood or like, I'm not really adding to this conversation. I just get out of here. But then it just pops up as a good giant post deleted by author post.
Just FYI, they're messaging me wondering when we're going to do the thing.
Okay. Say, I guess, five more minutes for us. But I guess we're in agreement going forward like no mass deletions, no anonymizing and I guess we leave the option now but you don't actually ever actually get to delete us get to Have a post deleted by author instead.
And we need to add to the signup or to the new membership going forward that all work is you know, because for any anything
you post to the forum is belongs to WC you as an organization. Right? Any work
you like, yeah, or work in countries like the Google Drive stuff, or aren't you make?
Yeah, sure, let's okay, maybe we should make it clear like this where the delineation is, right? So like things that you posted the forum things you post the WhatsApp. Things that you create in the Google Drive, right? Or, or add to the Google Drive, unless it's just a copy of something right, from somewhere else, obviously. We're going to need a lawyer if you are the copyright originator. Yeah. But the thing is, everyone's the copyright original of anything they write.
I mean, I guess we can just add a clause, like don't do it. When it's disruptive, because I think of like, because, you know, people have made meeting minutes, Google Docs and been like, Oh, let me just consolidate, you know, and then deleted one. But that's not disruptive behavior. So I think we should just clarify that it's tagged on to disruptive behavior, I guess. Yeah. Well, like,
maybe we should make it steering has to agree on what qualifies as disruptive behavior, basically, or the general membership or whatever, if somebody wants to take it before the general membership?
Yeah, if you disagree with steering, then you can take this down. Yeah, for what is counting like, what we're prohibiting you from deleting? Yeah. Okay. So for current proposal, I was gonna say just let's just edit, remove the person's name from all the posts, and then hide any, I think we can hide previous revisions. So we can hide, like, really hide any previous mentions of their name. So the current like the only m just like put in, like, just remove the name. And let the sentence stand as is. And then I was like, ask the member list of posts with the criteria that they should reveal identifying for like, personal information about the member. And then if like, three of us agree three plus degree to delete it, then I'll delete it. But like, we're not going to go through the whole, like all of their posts. Like by ourselves, but if we get a list, we'll go through, we'll all vote on it. And then removed from there. And that will be like a permanent deletion, I think, think as admin, you can like, delete the week. Or at worst, you we just, like remove all previous revisions, and so it only shows up as like the original post was removed by author.
Yeah, that seems reasonable, I think. Yeah.
Okay, Robbie. Yeah, seems reasonable. Okay. Okay. So, adjourn the meeting, and then invite the member. Perfect. Yeah. All right. So I want to separate Do you want to send an invite? Right now
