Larimer County Estes Valley Planning Advisory Committee 61523

3:14PM Jun 16, 2023

Speakers:

Keywords:

short term rental

rebecca

committee

rex

meeting

county

linda

watershed

item

valley

town

water

approved

comp plan

work

minutes

years

discussion

consent agenda

hear

But I do think we will need to be fairly quick about getting to the action item as it sounds like we won't have a quorum in a fairly short order

okay, I've got her in here now. Hello, Rebecca. Okay. So why don't we call this meeting, I liked it. This is David converse, I'd like to call the meeting to order and do a roll call. And as I see it right now, in terms of the committee, we have myself, Rex Bogan Paul, Scott Stewart and Linda Moke. And that for constitutes a quorum. So the first item, is there any exception? Is there anybody else that I might have missed? Or is that the completion? I think that's complete. The next item is to adoption of minutes. There are minutes for two meetings. And, Christina, I think you made one minor change to one of the meetings minutes, if you'd let everyone know what that is so that we can vote for adopting that.

Yes. So I've been minutes on the very last paragraph, instead of discussing that the committee was discussing about the July meeting. It's actually going to be the June so I corrected the July to June.

June meeting, right? Correct. Right. Okay. I just didn't hear you. So is there anybody who's willing to make a motion to adopt the minutes or is there any discussion that needs to take place first? Rex,

I would move to adopt the approval of minutes. April 2020 23.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

So Rex made the motion Scott seconded. Any discussion? Hearing no discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. And just and those who posts a night? Are we did everybody's Is there anybody who objected? I didn't hear any objections. But I'll just double check, or abstentions. Hearing none, the vote passes. The minus are adopted with a vote of four to zero. The next item on the agenda is communication items. And Rebecca I think that's usually your your lead out. Yes.

Yes. Thank you for your patience with me. I'm now on my phone because my my Zoom completely crashed on me once I got into the meeting. So I'm struggling to connect today. So I apologize for that. So few community grants,

something he was holding next

month. Let me interrupt I thought we have not approved the May minutes either. I thought we

oh, sorry. We we've approved. I thought we approve both at the same time. Did I make a mistake?

I just made the motion for sorry. I just moved the April. Sorry,

April. Okay. Then quickly, we can move along.

I will move for approval of the May 18 minutes 2023 as well.

Second. Okay. Are there any is there any discussion? Nope. Hearing none, all those in favor of approving the main minutes. say aye. Aye. All those against approving the minutes say nay. I think I heard four votes to sneakily. So unless there's any exception. Motion passes four zero. And now Rebecca, you're on? I apologize.

No, no problem at all. Thank you all. I want to note first on the Board of County Commissioners updates are our Commissioner liaison. missioner Shattuck McNally is unable to attend the UV PAC meeting today. She's in Washington DC, meeting with our state representatives and sends her regrets. She sent an email this morning said she's sad to miss the meeting today but wanted to let you know that that's that's what she was doing instead. And if you've got anything you want to kind of bring up to her we can communicate that back as staff up to the county commissioners. There any anything. Any questions or comments related to the Board of County Commissioners that the committee has?

The only question I have Rebecca is did the final short term rental minutes get produced on June? first minutes short term rental regulations. Was it finalized and available to the public on June 1?

Yes, yeah, that everything has is finalized. It was made available on June 1, that the ordinance, the regulations, everything are available for download on the county's website. There's a great landing page. Now for short term rentals where you can either find information about the regulations, for those who want to apply for a short term rental, all the application information is there for those who want to make a complaint related to an illegal short term rental or a licensed one that come complaint form is linked right there. And that's also where we have the map that shows all of the already approved licensed short term rentals on there. So people can get a sense for where those have already been approved. So that's all in one in one landing page. And we think the information is really complete. If you're if any of you are utilizing the website, or you notice anything that could be communicated in a different way, or you're having trouble finding that web page, just let us know. And we can work on better directing people there. And I believe we have Amy white on on Zoom today who can also speak to some of the outreach and communication efforts that are ongoing related to short term rentals. But I believe she has been working with our communication office on a press release as well.

We're going to send something to all the property managers, as well as the property owners to let them know about the ordinance and to attach the ordinance to them so that they're well aware and then show them the landing page for the we called it lodging facilities in residential dwellings. And then in princes STRS, because a lot of the interactive map also includes bed and breakfasts, vacation home short term rentals. So there's there's a plethora that it covers. And it was a little deceptive. But we think with the short term mental on the back of that, that that will direct people there. Right now, the new reg webpage comes up first, because so many people have looked at that. And so once people start going to the interactive map that should rise to the top of the Google search. So keep going on there and making those hits so that it'll rise to the top

activating the other webpage that was active during the the process to develop the new regulations just so it's reducing infusion.

So, Rex, you had a question? Yeah, I'd

like to thank the whole staff for the job that they've done. On behalf of this committee. It's it's a tough job. It's a long time. And I think they've done a very nice job, the public is very well served. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Rex. And I'd like to pay special attention to Alan and then one of our CO compiler compliance specialist, who did a ton of work in the background to get the data so that it could get pulled into the map. So Alan, and Hannah deserved the lion's share of what was the result? So we're very happy with it.

Well, thank you very much. Any other comments from Scott or from Linda?

Yeah, I, I'm, I guess I was pleased, you know, the whole process is a little scary, because you just don't really know what's going to get approved or not, and who's going to make what decision and with the county commissioners and everybody else, you know, there's so many different layers, you're a little worried that we could put a lot of work in and spent a lot of time talking about stuff and it could have ended up totally being ignored. And the regulations could have completely gone off in left field. And, and even with our group, there was, you know, somewhat some diversity of opinion. But in the end, it seems like it all came out pretty sane, pretty practical. You know, and I was really pleased with the end result. I mean, there was only a couple of things that if I had 100% Say I might have adjusted a little bit but overall within the process I I was really pleased with the way it turned out so it restored my faith in government.

Well, that's so great to hear.

And if I could just get one more thing you all may not know this, but tun Hillenbrand is moving to a different position with the town of birth it so that she put in were most appreciative, but she's moving to some different pastures at this point.

So Oh, that's too bad. She was good. Yeah.

So my next update

bye Have you worked so closely with these guys in the short term rentals that? Yeah, so I apologize. So I

would ask Rebecca, if we can delay the remainder the public communication, because I'm not, I've been told that we won't have a quorum at has when we hit the six o'clock, four o'clock hour. So I think it would be worth wanted to see if we can't have the public comment on any items that are not related to the agenda as it is presented. And Rebecca, is there anybody? Can you see if anybody would like to, in the whoever's listening would like to participate with it has a question relative to something different than what's on our agenda.

In David might not absolute hard to stop. So if we have to go over a little bit to get it all done, that's okay.

Okay, well, I'm trying to be you tell me 30 minutes, I'm trying to

appreciate that. My wife went ahead and went so I have a representative there.

I will just put a call out for any attendees who are viewing the Zoom meeting, if you would like to address the committee, to please press the raise hand button that you should see on Zoom. To let us know that you would like to provide any public comment to the to the committee on items that are not on the agenda today. I will for the for EV pack here, I will let you know that we have two observers today. From our county attorney's office, we have Frank Howe, who is the county attorney that primary primarily supports us in community development, as well as Christine Lucas, and who is a new attorney with our county attorney's office. So she's observing just to learn more about how these meetings go and hear from all of you. So just that little plug in, and it doesn't look like we have any hands raised at the moment for people who want to address the committee.

Well, thank you, and thank you for the attorneys for participating. And we never know when they'll need your help. So thank you. If there are no public comments, then I guess the question is the consent agenda is the next item on the Item is the next on the agenda. And so the question is, is there any reason to pull the Consent Agenda off the consent agenda? Or are we happy with it being on the Consent Agenda? Is it would be a point where someone would make motions, they want to remove that item from consent consent agenda, correct? I don't hear anybody rushing to do that. Good. So I think we're good to go ahead and let that be on the consent agenda. And Rebecca, you can remind everybody what that means, so that the public listening knows that.

Yes, thank you for that opportunity. So the consent agenda are items that are scheduled for a recommendation or decision by the Estes Valley Planning Advisory Committee. And items that are placed on the consent agenda will not have a full presentation or full discussion by the committee. So if the committee chooses to approve the Consent Agenda, then the any items listed there. Today, we have just one item, and the items listed there automatically approved without a full of presentation. And so the item that we have on the consent agenda today is the Estus pines resort lodge cottage project, which is file number 23 Dash zone 3447. And we do have the applicant here on the call and the planner who has reviewed this project in case there are questions. But again, this will not not be discussed unless it is pulled off the consent agenda by a member of the EB pack or a member of the audience.

Everyone, Rex, do you want to say something?

Yes. In the past these this correct me, Rebecca, this is an accommodation zoning.

I believe that's the case. But I know we have Tracy Hicks who can speak more knowledgeably to this application.

Oh, this is not a combination zoning. This is Eagle clip. This is this is where traditionally there are a lot of STRS and we as a group have suggested that they need to be reviewed by this group. And on along those lines, David I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda.

Yeah, actually it is in the accommodation zone. According to the pull it up right now.

I thought even Cliff was not in there. They're considering whether or not to do accommodation. So and this

zone ABA one according to the document we received correct Oh, go ahead.

Samantha, would you like to chime in? Yes, I'm presenting for Tracy,

who had some

who is unable to speak at the moment. But yes, the property is currently zoned EDA one SS Valley accommodations, low intensity. So you are correct.

Thank you. Great motion stands, David.

Okay. Is there a second? Motion? Linda seconded. Okay, any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. All right. Those opposed nay. It's got I didn't hear your voice. Are you in or out?

I, in

you, so you say hi. Yes. So then the vote is four zero. And I appreciate the participation of the the applicant and their partner manager. And I think that's, I think this is probably the easiest one we've done in a long time. But as has Rex mentioned, this isn't an accommodation zone. And that has been our position that is a normal place for short term rentals. And it doesn't count against the cap for exam for Estes Park. Okay. If that's Is there any. So right now, what I'm looking at now is we've completed the action items on the agenda. So we have met that within the quorum. And Rebecca, if we want you had some additional communications, I think we can come back to that as we've completed what needed to happen before we lost score.

Great, yeah. Happy to continue with a few more updates from you all. So I'm on the staffing side. So thank you, Amy for mentioning ton. Todd Hillenbrand will be moving on from the county next week. We're sad to lose her. And very thankful she was able to wrap up the short term rental regulations before she departs. We are also gaining a new staff member next week. So our new planning manager Jenny axe maker, starts on Tuesday. And you will start to see her face in these meetings. We'll make sure our next up pack meeting that Jenny is there to introduce herself. But she will be managing the team of planners within our community development department. And for at least the next couple of months, you'll still see a lot of me, Matt Lafferty and Jenny as we determine who will be the a more permanent liaison for this committee moving forward. And some of that will be informed by what you all decide you want to be focused on over the next year. And who can best support those conversations. So excited to welcome Jenny here soon. And you'll be you'll be meeting her. We also have we have a couple positions open within our planning department tons position, which is a senior planner position as well as a planner one or planner to position we have both of those advertised. So there may be some other new faces coming soon. And I those are the main kind of stuff, staffing related updates or other updates, I did have a question for the committee to see if there are any observations that you all want to share. And as a couple of you are out of the country. But we're wondering how the ride the Rockies event went this past weekend, and if anyone heard anything are noticed anything related to that event. We didn't have any staff up there kind of monitoring activities. But we did approve a special, a couple special event permits related to that event and just want to make sure that they were good neighbors during that during that event this weekend.

I wasn't there on purpose, and a lot of us as residents treat those things like that. We're not necessarily the best judges for you, because we kind of try to avoid them. And I didn't get any feedback from anybody that historically the residents kind of don't get involved in those things very much. Don't have good feedback, really.

I was out in town, so I didn't stop. Did you have anything?

Yeah, the only feedback I can give you is just my actually my daughter had to drive down the canyon and drive back up the canyon on the day that they came up the canyon from Fort Collins, and she works on the opposite side of town. And so she was going to drive the highway seven and crossing over Mary's Lake area in the morning when they were all riding out of town heading towards Alan's Park and she was kind of surprised that the lack of police and or any other traffic you know direction anywhere you Oh, but she also said that it was manageable. And she's only 21. She's, you know, not never racecars or anything like that. She's maybe a little timid around that. But I mean, she, you know, the bikes seem to be spread out enough that you were able to get by them. And she said it was fairly manageable overall. So that was the only thing she was kind of surprised that there was very, very little traffic control anywhere that she was at.

That's good to know. Yeah.

I and I, all I can guess is that by them, some of the bikes ride side by side, and you've got oncoming traffic. So it's hard to pass and things. But she said everybody was patient, everything seemed to go pretty well. I would only think that if I don't know if they do anything formally to try to spread them out a bit, but whatever they did, it seemed to be manageable.

Yeah, appreciate that feedback.

And it's good that they timed the rock slide on Highway seven, until after the bikes were passed. That could have been a big problem. Could have been bad. Yeah.

Great. Thank you, David. That's it for my my update. Questions for the committee right now.

All right, that sounds good. So then, my understanding is we're on to discussion items. And the first one is the insert SS forward, and how we want to look at that and how we want to prioritize that information. Rex, I know you mentioned that you would like to make a comment here.

Yeah, please, David. Because our last discussion touched on the essence Valley watershed Coalition for some of those items this committee was discussing. I, on behalf of the committee, I contacted the chair of the watershed coalition, and asked them if they would be interested in joining us discussing some topics of mutual interest on that Estes Valley comp plan action, short term action items they were very interested in be glad to do anything we suggest. What I would suggest the committee and would love to hear some comments on is that maybe their chair Bob Levitt and myself that together with somebody has staff Rebecca, have a little talk about how to what to cover and how to cover it. And then consider a joint meeting between the two groups that will be convenient to both of our studies. Anybody have some other ideas or, or better ideas?

I guess perhaps first, Rex, it would be nice to have Rob live it to lay out kind of what their plans are. Because I'm not sure I'm completely I

invite them to give a little 15 present minute presentation. So we know what they are up to and what they do before we do a joint. That's excellent. Okay,

so I think I can imagine So, you want to take care SCOTTON? Linda, before I say anything more? Do you have any thoughts about that? All good. All right. So Rex, can you take care of that?

Well, why don't I ask Rebecca to invite them to make a 15 minute presentation under activities coming up in the next six months, with a prelude to us getting together later for a joint session to discuss some of these comp plan action items. Rebecca, does that sound like a good approach?

Yeah, I think I think that works, and then we can reach out. And Rex, if you could provide Bob contact information to me, then we can we can initiate that. And is that something that you all would would? I mean, we can check Bob's availability for the July meeting, if you'd like to do it in July, or if there's a particular and I'm meeting David, that, you

know, it was just a 15 minute thing, I think. Unless, you know, unless you get a real heavy schedule, it's something that can be moved. So we'll leave it up to you but make, you know, put you in touch in asking for 15 minutes. So we control.

Yeah, that's That sounds wonderful. Happy to help with that. Get that scheduled.

So So on this topic, Linda and Scott, is there something you'd like to mean as Scott, you mentioned, you weren't available for the maybe more that discussion occurred? But Linda, I think you were you have some things that are hyper. I guess what we're trying to do is understand what are people's priorities?

Not watershed management, but I set my I have priorities in so I don't have them in front of me right now. But here what the watershed management guy had said,

Let me pick it back a little bit on what Linda's talked about. The watershed group is a little broader than some people think, in general terms, they're really interested in the ecology of the area. And of course, the watershed is one of the most important elements, but they're interested in the wildlife just as much as the watershed and kept on talking personally. Now, the things on the comp plan, that to me are most precious for this area are the things that protect and enhance the things that have made the area so popular to visitors and residents, over many years, there will be access to nature of scenic views, wildlife, those kinds of natural ecology, things of things, and all of those align with the watershed. So to the degree this group, and more than me are interested knows there's an advantage in working. That's that's sort of position, I suggest.

I don't have what you sent in in front of me, Linda Simon's I'm sorry. I didn't have any information. Don't have that information.

It's quite out.

So and Scott, did you have some things you wanted to bring

forward? Well, you know, I'm probably one of the most opinionated people around. But I, when I actually took the time and went through the plan, you know, really thoroughly. And I had a really hard time picking out what I thought was more important than, you know, one item over another. And so I guess I sorted deferred, and just felt like I'd really liked to hear the discussion. And maybe as some of the other people had opinions, I would form more of an opinion myself, because I think that I really don't agree with that that kind of is like doesn't sound that important. But off the cuff. I mean, everything in the plan, to me, had value some of the stuffs more difficult to implement, and some is less than I just didn't really come away with a strong opinion. And I was shocked at that because I thought I'd look at it and easily come up with a top three list, but I didn't. So I I'm just very much interested in hearing other people's discussion, opinions. And hopefully that helps me to frame mine.

I think that's an excellent point because the watershed coalition is not going to cover all the things we prefer. And Linda, if you've got five minutes, we'd appreciate you telling us important things for you. So we make sure we've got a list.

I think the probably the most disappointing thing for me, was what I considered, in my opinion, the agenda as far as I thought it sounded very woke Rex, to tell you the truth when I wish I had it in front of me. I've only got one computer and I can't pull it up on my phone but why don't

I go ahead and bring I can bring it up share it here. I've got it sitting here on I've got it for the Larimer County things that would be okay with you. It would that help Linda let me just figure out how to share on this system here can I share some type I don't know that I can share anything here can I? Rebecca

Let me ask Christina if we need to give anyone permission to share

or if not you could just share page 100 of the SS forward Complan

see I am I am operating up my phone right now so I'm not directly share myself but let me see if I can give you permission here.

I thought as a sole trader as a board member I could but apparently I can't.

Yeah. DAVID I just think you just made you a co host Okay, see if that will work now and try sharing

I don't even see a sharing button to be honest.

You could share your so hold

on a second here say posting Here we go. Share Screen. I was in the wrong I was in the wrong place.

Yeah, try that and see, see if we can make it work.

Okay, so this was the Larimer County Actions page, the first two pages of it.

So if you've done the zoom in a little bit. Make it a little bit larger.

Yeah, let me try to do that here. Since you're trying to, I will do it right now.

There you go. Okay. Yeah.

So, go back to the very first piece. What page matalon. Sorry, skips pages. regularities?

What page? 198 right here.

If I'm trying to get to them, they're right here. Okay. So I think a lot of the things Rex was talking about were out in the natural environment side.

Right. But they certainly are not the only things that we should talk.

Right. And I think Linda, things you were talking about, we're in a different area. I'm not sure what you meant by woke.

In the beginning of it, if you're which page you want me to start on 95?

Well, right here where it says Larimer County actions table to its page 101. I looked at

19 originalline Project protection zones?

Yeah, that's the very first of the items. And that's the natural environment, any category. I don't know, that didn't sound like those were things that were high on your list.

You may want to scroll down until you find some of the things that bring your bill.

Okay. area.

Okay, so one of the things that while Wildlands is looking at, I found it was particularly interesting to look at this one here, which I'm trying to get there without losing it. And that is to prepare a water master plan and to work on conserving water. And to me, that's something that's going to be an increasing problem in our valley. And to me, I would like to understand how that's how we're going to actually do that. Because and, as was mentioned their last meeting. It turns out that the county doesn't provide water, anybody, only the town's do well, we don't live in a town or in the unincorporated Larimer County. And yet, we all are using water, which has a limited reach is a limited resource. And so it'll be an interesting conversation. And I was happy to see this included. But it's something that I personally have the have some expertise and would be curious about seeing how this is going to go forward. So for me, I think it's an important piece of the equation, because without water, it's pretty hard to have a house here.

David, do you mind if I enter, interject there. So the county is actually about to start work on a county wide water master plan. We've got the funding in place, we have a grant from FEMA, and some money from the general fund, that the county commissioners have allocated to do a county wide water master plan, we've just contract, we're just in the process of contracting with a consultant to help us with that. And the the consultant that we've selected is SW ca. They're a firm that deals with a lot of different types of water issues in GIS modeling and risk analysis and things like that. And so the water master plan will include a focus on an of what is our water supply situation at a county wide scale? What's the future water demand situation? What are some of our vulnerabilities and risks from either a climate standpoint or an infrastructure standpoint, or growth standpoint, and, and mapping that all out and then coming up with some, you know, priorities, infrastructure priorities, policy, or regulatory priorities or programmatic priorities, water conservation, things like that, that can be customized for different areas of the county based on the love where those risks and vulnerabilities are most present. So that would take into account the what's happening within the municipalities within the county as well as the unincorporated areas. So I'm not sure if that gets it, specifically, what you're kind of thinking in terms of how you picture water master plan. But that is an effort that will be starting up soon. That's at the county wide scale and would love your involvement from the involvement from this entire committee. But anyone who has a direct interest in that topic,

I think that would be really good because everybody in this unincorporated county is well dependent.

Or just about everybody, they would love me. Let me alert you to something. When I arrived in SS 16 years ago, I was very concerned about water supply because the West is notoriously in bad shape. in Estes Park has excellent, excellent, excellent access to water, probably better than any other town in Colorado and probably better than any size in the West. The best thing for to the concern about water supply long term, have a little presentation from the water department of Essex, they're very up to date on it, the lawyer for the town 20 years ago, masterminds brilliant moves got the town quite a bit of water. That doesn't preclude having a good water Master Plan, which does not exist. And I think that's why it's in the comp plan. But anybody who is concerned, we could invite a short presentation and make sure we get up to date on what the situation is.

And that's a good idea Rex might comment is that the town doesn't supply water to us. Most of us does to some of us, and they can incorporate County, but many of us are solely dependent on wells,

our own wells, there's no government master plan for Wells, no, but

the water is an issue. And I know it's a particular issue out near the park on a high drive. So I mean, there's a lot of areas that anyways, but Rebecca, I'd be happy to participate and do whatever it is I can whether the committee as a whole feels important enough, that that remains to be decided. And right now, we have four people here with one about to leave. And the question is, how much further do we want to take this discussion at this point in time.

And to me, to some extent, this is sort of overwhelming. And I'm trying to think about how we could do this in some orderly fashion. I mean, we could go through and discuss every line item, which could take 100 years and, you know, I mean, off the cuff, and I'm just going to throw this out as an idea, I'll be more than happy to if everybody shoots it down. But maybe it'll generate a different idea. But maybe if each of us went through these pages from page 100, to 1046, or wherever it is, and we took each of these items and assign them an A B and a C or something with a something we feel strongly about that, you know, is really important B's, you know, moderate and C's kind of like, you know, if it gets done great. But if it doesn't know or whatever, maybe there's a another category of stuff, that sort of maintenance, that's just kind of like things that kind of ought to happen. That, you know, aren't a big initiative, but in the background, they just need to be done. And you sort of take them for granted or some I don't know, I'm just thinking, Is there a way to manage this discussion? You know, and I, or we could each just try to pick our top five items or something. But when I tried to do that before I struggled, but now that I'm looking at it again, maybe I could do it. I don't know, maybe the day I looked at it, I was just not very opinionated, I was in a very open mood. So I don't know, I'm just trying to figure out how we can facilitate the discussion, because there's a lot of stuff here.

I guess I started looking at short term midterm and long term, just to see what was high priority in terms of getting done and next year too. And, and maybe things that might need a little help or anything in the midterm that might need to come a little further forward. It sounds like the water master plan has come forward from where it was before. So because at that time it may see where it is. So it was it is clear to me that the things changed. And I'm sorry for this thing here. I don't know why it skips when I think it's a midterm midterm thing for the water plan. It sounds like it's moved to the short term. So that's good. But maybe the things that I would ask is, what if we could go through and prioritize the short term thing ones first, and decide what midterm ones might go to the short term? Because this is things that we can work on for the next year to Rex, Linda,

already have already asked the committee to do that. And we did a poor job. I'll ask again for the next meeting, and I think so. We'll have Rebecca put it up. the meantime, Linda, really should have the Florida get us up to date on some of the things that are important to her.

Yes. Okay.

Well, I am looking at, I guess this page 103 says to continue to limit the short term rental of residential units and within the limits of the county authority. Are you guys aware that a federal Roll lawsuits been filed in the town of Estes Park for over this? No. Okay, well, it'll be coming out soon. And

I'm sure. Go ahead. What's the lawsuit about I'm sorry, a

lawsuit is about revocation of a license in a town limits, and they have filed a federal lawsuit on it. I actually think this is my last meeting guys, I think I'm rotating off. But I am concerned about the annexation. As a person who has rented their property to long term people that nearly destroyed it, I would never put my short term rental and a long term situation. And I'm not sure if I'm pretty sure that I differ in opinion from the rest of you guys on the board, because simply I have I do have a short term rental. But I find it disconcerting that the county is trying to further limit them, I could see in particular areas, but it's not specific. That what it says in here about that. And if we get into a federal come under the umbrella of in the valley of a federal lawsuit, that could upend all of this. And,

Linda, I think, you know, it's very important to protect those people who have invested in have licenses. You know, that's that's why it's important for you to have been on to have something to say. You know, we can't destroy all that stuff with your promise people stuff. You can't take it away from automatically. Being fair is very important. Continue. Keep an eye on us. Keep us straight, please.

Well, Rex, I've lived in town for 25 years. And it upsets me that we have that property out there of this hatchery that years ago was studied for cluster cabins, lot, you know, workforce housing, that kind of thing. The town has done nothing about that. I don't I don't think it's the county limits. But it's town. Yeah. You know, I have heard this argument. I've been through two comp plans and my 10 year of living as a resident here. And while I applaud all of the efforts to come up with a short term, mid term, long term, if nothing ever gets done, what is the point is my point. And if it ends up being thrown out by the federal courts, in the next 12 to 18 months, what then?

Yeah, I'm not following the and I'm not disagreeing with you. I mean, I have all along said that, like what RxJS said, I mean, I took the whole short term rental thing came into it very neutral, didn't have a strong opinion, either way, and tried to be, you know, as balanced as possible. And I always thought that it was about, you know, balancing the fairness issue of the people that have them against the fairness issue of the people that live next to them and things. So I don't feel like I had any bias in that. I was just trying to do what was right for everybody. And I think they came out pretty well. But when you're talking about this lawsuit, I don't. And then you're talking about their the workforce housing and all this stuff. I just don't understand how this all ties together. I I don't know what the lawsuits about it sounds like somebody lost their license. I don't understand. There's not knowing any of the details of this. I don't follow the stream of thinking on any of this.

Now, the workforce housing, Scott, you know, the whole thing about long term rentals is so that our workforce housing would have not affordable housing, but affordable rentals. And that's been the argument that's been one of the main arguments all along is that we need people to work in our schools. We need police officers.

I totally agree.

I do too. But I am I think we're barking up the wrong tree. If we think if we do not approve any short term rentals at these will automatically even a percentage of them be converted to a long term rental situation. And I'm I'm just anecdotally saying, I would never do that. I've had my license to rent for probably 15 years, maybe even longer than that. But I all of that I think that we have Yad about for the two years that I've been on this committee has been a matter of lack of enforcement and I I just don't know, you know, where we go from there. And if you're talking about limiting this, and people's property rights, who have had issues, and I'm sure it's gonna come out, and please don't hush my husband there, it's gonna come out. And I, you know, I don't know if the tip county is going to follow the town or what's going to happen with this lawsuit that it's it's all over over, you know, inherent property rights.

So so if I may interject, you're really objecting to h one dot F, is that correct?

That's the top one. Yes. And I'm curious about the annexation. I mean, Scott and I both live in little valley. And, you know, we've got the blue line, probably right below Scott's house where there's no water and septic and sewage and that kind of thing. So I'm concerned about the what they're having to say about annexation as well. And while I'm on a roll, you know, I'm going about preserving the environment and all that, I'd like to know what your opinion is of highway 36, where it crests the canyon, and the 500 trees that have been 100 year old trees that have been removed for that electric line.

Anybody want to answer that question?

No, I'm concerned too.

I'm guessing it's hard to stop the electric company.

Okay, so I didn't run. Is this your last meeting?

I think it is a two year board commitment.

Yes, that's and that is correct, Linda, I think this is your last meeting. I was gonna make sure we wrapped up with a little thank you at the end. interject that now, but

not necessary?

Well, I think I certainly get a chance to thank you. Appreciate that.

Absolutely, absolutely.

are limited to one term. No.

I will tell you all, I have a huge commitment to the Hospital Foundation. That's kicking into high gear. So I'm going to focus my efforts on cancer treatment in the Estes Valley.

Thank you. Hopefully we'll never need it, but, but it's a habit. So thank you. You're welcome.

Thank you, Linda. And you've been coming regularly. You've called in from Paris as I recall. I did. I don't even know what time of night it was, but it was definitely like 1am. So you've definitely been a hard worker and it definitely shows and it's good to have people different opinions. When

you are do as a committee to go forth and try to recognize the right that people have who own property and

we appreciate your service and please check base with us to keep an eye on that.

This is kind of a minor item but it is on the list. I don't remember where I saw it. But it talks about the night sky and the lighting. One of my pet peeves is is that the water facility over on the mountainside above Mary's lake where the water comes through the tunnel the pipes through the mountains under the Continental Divide has got the two brightest lights in the entire valley. And they just shine bright as bright to be in there. They're new or they were changed about two years ago. And I don't understand why government facilities don't follow the rules. And then they just put I think three buildings on highway 36 I don't know if they're in Boulder County or Larimer County at least a couple are in Boulder County but they have an outside leg on each one of those buildings that is not night sky and as bright as blazes and as you're driving up the canyon you think you've got a car coming at you and it's actually the light on the buildings and so I I just I think that the the there is absolutely no one it seems is regulating that they built this big storage warehouse you know storage units on Fish Creek, and they've got neon lighting all the way around that that is absolutely night not night sky when they first put it in. It was really bright. They seem to have turned it down a bit. But I that's one of my pet peeves is that it seems like nobody is enforcing that, and the government in the city and everybody else is is, is as bad as the individuals are about it. So it just, there's no example being set by government and separate bandits in

that, Scott, let me let me jump in there. And just to kind of add a little context and maybe some encouragement on federal facilities or really any publicly owned facilities, when those need to come through any kind of planning, process approval process, or even kind of the building permitting process, we have very limited authority as a local government to regulate it, or kind of preempt it, you know, if they come through a planning process, it's a location and an extent process is what it's called, where it's more of an advisory kind of decision by your planning commission. It's not regulatory, and in the same way, and so yeah, we don't, we don't have a ton of control. But, you know, if, if you've identified, which federal agency is owning that, or if it's northern water, in the case of the facility up by Mary's Lake, Bureau of Reclamation, FSC, the Bureau of record northern water, I would encourage you to, you know, reach out to the local manager there or, you know, look for some contact information, just let them know that, you know, they may not listen, or do anything about it, but, you know, if they may not have have recognized the impact that they're, they're causing, especially if it's creating a safety issue along the highway or, or something like that, to the extent that it's on private property. You can always if you feel like they might be, you know, if it was a building that was recently approved or went up, they might be in violation of their plans that were approved, or maybe not, we don't have a lot of tools for enforcing nuisances, as it relates to lighting. But if a project was approved with a certain type of lighting, and that's not what they installed, or the it's not how they're operating, then there are some cases where there could be a code violation that we can take a look at.

A property they never even asked what we were doing for lighting.

Scott, you, you've got to realize something here. After 911, the federal government Homeland Security baked the water coming in through the tunnel into the Estes Valley, national security privacy. And they ordered the Bureau of Land Management to change crease security. So what you're seeing is a result of a federal program. There's no way in hell. Things All right. Yeah, let's get it. You got to pick your battles. Let's

get one. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's

good to go after the neons on Fish Creek, and I'll be right.

Yeah, yes, yes.

Well, the other thing too, and this I don't know where this fits into the plan that bothers me is that, you know, the town has put up a water department facility on Fish Creek, and they've got just this massive yard of equipment and pipes and crap and piles of boulders and things. And they don't fence it. So, you know, it just seems to me that the town and the county shouldn't be detracting from our from our valley. You know, I mean, the county puts this you know, D O T. Truck plowing facility at the entrance to Estes Park. That's an eyesore. The town you know, takes over Kearney's construction lot. And it will it looks worse now than it did when Bernie owned it. And so they're they're actually materially detracting from our community instead of enhancing it. And that just doesn't seem right to me. I mean, if the town's gonna build a facility, basically, I know it's the water department facility down there is zoned commercial, but it's really in a residential area surrounded by a residential area, you know, they should at least have the decency to put a fence up to cover up their mess. And you know, and I think that should be you know, in the golf course piled rocks and debris at the edge of the river they have maybe it was the town at the edge of the golf course that right in front of the condo complex down there and that was their dumping yard for materials. And you know, it's right in front of some of our friends condo they ended up selling it moving. Again, I just don't think that you know, that should be happening. It so somewhere maybe in this plan, we can address that.

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

So, but I will take the assignment as to go through and try to priority ties things before the next meeting. I think that's a good idea. And I guess, you know, I would even Glinda if you're leaving, even if you're, you know, on your way out, you know, your your terms still there, the more opinions the better, I do encourage you to send in your opinion too. So we have more, because it might take some time to get somebody else on this. Absolutely.

Oh, if Rex if I could just make a request, if you'd like to kind of take up that little homework assignment, we can send that out of Staff to the rest of the committee, if you want to have data in the way that you would, would like people to be focusing.

I'll do it this week.

So I think it's fair to say, and it's time to move on to the last discussion item, and reserve the further discussion till we have a larger committee, and a more prepared committee. And the other one would be the upcoming minute meeting topics, is the last thing that was on the agenda. And that I think Rebecca is probably in some part, you're gonna give us some idea what's coming our way?

Well, it's more of a request to all of you to understand what you would like to focus on for upcoming meetings. I've noted the continuation of this conversation for next month about prioritizing the short term implementation actions from the Comprehensive Plan, the presentation from the watershed coalition, about their priorities, and then a future joint discussion with EB Pac and the in the coalition about things that you all could be focusing on together. So that's what I've noted as some potential upcoming meeting topics. But I wanted to just put the call out there to see if there are other things in addition to the any, you know, short term rentals or other development projects that might make their way to you, but wanted to see if there's anything that you all see as aligned with your mission as a committee that you will be focusing on.

Go ahead, Rex,

new members, new members, what can we do to help get this committee back in full force?

How many are supposed to be on it? If it's full? Seven? Oh, really. So when Linda leaves, we're going to be short three.

To me that I'm not sure each of us individually can do more than trying to talk. people we know and think would do good. With that, that has limited success. They see how much we anguish. They don't want to repeat it. But but whatever we can do, Rebecca, as a committee to help entice and get people on board, get them up to date, a little training that contributing is only going to be good.

Okay, just to make sure I understand the numbers here. My understanding is that that Mike, and drew are still on the committee. And then there are Oh, you have Mike, I forgot. There's six of us with Linda going out there be two down I think set a three. Yeah,

I did the math wrong. I forgot Mike.

All right. But I do know, the Commissioner asked us to provide last at the last meeting to provide suggestions for people to prefer to check into who's trying to get more diverse, get a diverse committee, which indicate

if I might be able to bring up a one other topic. And maybe this kind of is like the watershed thing. And I knew were on the committee. So I'm just throwing out an idea. But one of my big concerns is that the power company doesn't really seem to take great responsibility for maintaining the right aways of the power lines and making sure they're safe from fire risk. And it's you know, there's a lot of stuff in this plan. And a lot of things have been talked about and fire mitigation. And quite frankly, I think the power lines and their lack of maintenance as far as trees near them and things are probably the greatest risk. Aside from lightning. We can't stop lightning. But we can we can manage the power company maybe. So I'm wondering if maybe some sort of a presentation or a meeting with our company and asking them what their policy is and what their plan is or something that might be of some value because the fire that started next door to my house was caused by a limb on a tree on a massive ponderosa pine that was only six feet from the power line. Now, and this is a major power line that feeds all with little valley and maybe Rockwood estates and more, I'm not sure. So I mean, there's absolutely no reason there should have been that big of a tree, six feet from a major power line with limbs that were basically touching the power lines. And so that fire was totally preventable. And if, and I'm, you know, there's a long my property line, by under 1000 feet, there's probably at least a dozen or more 60 foot tall, Ponderosas, that or dead that could fall onto that same power line and start another fire. And when the power companies Tree Service guy was out here, I asked him to cut them down, and they said they wanted. So I think there's, there's a major problem there. So, when you're talking fire mitigation, I think that's a big, big, big part of it. So just something to consider when you're thinking through your priorities list.

Okay, and if you look at the page 100 There's one implement 2022 community wildfire protection plan, or and that one would hope that that's in that item.

Yes, and no, that's, that's several groups are working on that have been working on. They're led by the Estes Valley Fire District.

Maybe we could ask them to talk to us about that. We go

there. They're the people who should drive this committee.

Yeah, we're we we certainly support it make it a priority.

Yeah, we actually have a new wildfire mitigation program specialist at the county. She's based within the sheriff's office, but she previously worked for the Estes Fire Protection District. Her name is Reina Eshelman. And she's still kind of getting her feet under her getting starting to get her program built up. But I'm sure once she's got that established, she would be happy to come present and talk about what she's working on areas of focus and kind of get some feedback on where they're headed. To

think Rebecca, the other thing that I would, I would love to hear more about your water master plan. And I don't know if the committee is interested in that or not. But I certainly like to see whatever it is. And maybe you could just send us a synopsis of what's going on there. And people can decide be interested or not.

Yeah, I say we're still in the contracting stage with our with our consultant, once we have more of a firm of scope of work and project plan, then that's definitely something we can bring to all of you to take a look at what's coming and, you know, opportunities to get more directly involved.

Sounds good to me. Is there anything anybody wants to add to the list of things for Rebecca?

Rebecca, can you repeat the person's name on the that's with the sheriff's department on fire?

Yeah, her name is Reina are a i n a Eshelman? And let me just double check the spelling on on that one.

Relative is the water manager for us.

Yeah, so it's Eshelman? E SHL, e m a n. Okay. Reina Eshelman. And so she's her. I mean, she's working for Larimer County in the sheriff's office, but her experience is in this valley.

Yeah. So she's, she's the right person for the job.

Yeah. Yeah. And she's excited to the she's kind of been jumping right in. Yeah.

And it is true that the fire chief is I think he just completed his last day. So I don't know if they have a new one yet.

I don't Yeah, I don't know either. I did hear that.

Is there anything else to this, that this committee wishes to discuss?

Mode A lot of Hey.

With that note, then I I would take a motion to adjourn.

So moved. Second.

All in favor, say aye. Aye. And goodbye, Linda. Service.

You guys go to the county website and look at the 1996 comp plan and see what they recommended. What's been done. Thank you. Biden. Interesting.

Very interesting. Thank you for the meeting. I appreciate it.

Thank you and thank you Rebecca for being the host And

sorry for the technical technical difficulties hopefully I'll have it figured out next month all right take care everyone