Hello and welcome back to the while we're waiting hope after child loss Podcast. I'm Jill Sullivan, your host and one of the cofounders of the While We're Waiting ministry. Today I'm excited to introduce you to my friend Chrisy Slate who I met when she and her husband Joe came to our first while we're waiting weekend in Illinois a couple of years ago. In the first half of this two part episode, Chrisy shares the story of her son Caleb, who died by suicide just as he was beginning his senior year of high school with absolutely no signs or indications of what he was about to do. I hope you'll listen in for a very honest and open discussion of teen suicide and its impacts on a family.
Hi, Chrisy, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad we have this opportunity to visit today.
Hi, Jill. Yes, thank you for having me.
Yeah, you're welcome. So let's get started by giving you an opportunity to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. Tell us where you're from and what life is like for you there.
Okay, we live in Clarksville, Tennessee, and we are here because of the military brought us here. My husband served 24 years active duty in the army. And we decided to come back here to Clarksville and retire and settle. And so that's where we are. We've been married 24 years. We have three kids. My husband and I both work for the school system. We love traveling and hiking and spending time as a family.
Yeah, you've had the opportunity to live some interesting places too, haven't you?
Yes. We lived in Germany and traveled Europe for three years, which was an incredible experience.
Yeah, I would love to do that someday. There are some places in Europe that I would love to visit. Yeah. So you said you have three kids. We're here today to talk about Caleb, your son. So tell us a little bit about Caleb ... help us to get to know him a little bit.
Sure. I love talking about Caleb, of course, was very easygoing, funny, affectionate, silly. He loved his family, his friends. He loved playing with kids. He was very genuine and authentic. When it came to his relationships. What you saw was what you got. And all the time. He was a very safe person to talk to. He didn't gossip. He was just the person that you could go to when you needed to kind of unload your feelings, emotions and struggles. And he was the first a very good listener in that aspect. If he loved you, he you knew it because he showed it. He was very, very good at that. He loves sports. He played sports a lot growing up. He wrestled he played baseball for many years and football. And we enjoyed watching him in his sports activities. He worked as a lifeguard, he worked as a referee for youth soccer. And he was just an all around really good, fun. teenage boy who loved his mama.
You guys had a special relationship.
Yes we did. Very, very special.
Sounds like a very well rounded young man.
Definitely. Yes.
So in the late summer of 2019, Caleb was just starting his senior year and on August the ninth he wrote out some goals for the year. And I think they give us a really good glimpse into his heart. Would you mind sharing those with us?
Sure, I will. It's titled this year's goals and he wrote it on August the ninth 2019. Make the soccer team grow spiritually and be more confident in faith. Reach out in meet new people. Bring people closer to faith, motivate myself to work out more. Be more confident speaking in front of people.
Yeah. Those are some great goals for a young man ... that shows a lot of maturity. Those things that he had kind of set out for himself.
Yes. And we were given these goals by one of his teachers for his passing. And it meant the world to me, because he wrote those at school. I wasn't sitting next to him. He wasn't in Sunday school. He was by himself at school. And so that was his true heart. His true goals for the year.
Yeah, what a treasure that you have though.
Yes.
And then just three days So after writing those goals, everything kind of changed in your lives. How about you pick up the story from there?
Okay. Yes. Everything changed. Yeah. Yes, on Monday, August 12 2019, started as a normal Monday. It was the second full day of school for us that year, I'm sorry, the third full day of school. And he Caleb went to school, he got early release, and he went to lunch with some friends. He came home, he did a little workout, he played some video games. My husband and I were kind of delegated to other obligations that night, our youngest daughter, Jordan, she was six at the time. And that night was her very first soccer practice ever. So my husband took her to that. And then my middle daughter, Sammy, she was riding horses at the time. And so her and I were leaving to go to her horse riding us and, and, you know, normal evening going on. And then I was getting ready, I was about to leave. And I had actually told him goodbye. I said, Bye, love you. And I'll see you later. And his plans were to go to a scrimmage football game at his high school. And for whatever reason, I turned around to see that my girls had left on their bedroom light. Well, you know, when you leave, you kind of want the lights off, and just we were going to be gone for several hours. So I turned around and to go turn off their light. And when I walked past Caleb in the bathroom, I saw him slip something into his pocket. And so of course, you know, mom was like, what was that?
Yeah, of course.
And he was like, it's nothing. And like, I knew it was something. So we talked a little bit back and forth. And, you know, I urged him, you know, I saw you put something in your pocket, take it out right now. So after a little bit of back and forth, he did, he took it out and threw it on the floor, and it was an e cigarette. So he had thought I left you know, because I had said goodbye. But anyway, I turned around, and then I saw that and we had a conversation. And I could tell instantly that he was very disappointed in himself. And he was just he was really nervous. I knew that he felt like he had let me down. You know, I said, What do you do? What are you doing with this? You know, where did you get it? And he said, a friend from school gave it to me. And I don't know why I'm doing it. I know. It's stupid. I know, kids are dying because of this. And I know it's not right. And I'm sorry. I was like okay, yeah, so you know, I just told him you cannot go to the scrimmage football game. Because I was parenting you know, I was parenting him. Except he got in trouble. We did not argue or raise our voices in any manner. And he had not been in trouble previously. So it wasn't honestly a super big deal at the time. I just I knew we talked through it. And so I of course took the e cigarette away. And I I just figured we would finish talking about it later and work through it. And all would be all would be well and all would be normal. That is not what happened. As I was gone. I took me 30 minutes to arrive at the barn where my daughter took lessons. Once I got there, I called my husband and I said you'll never believe what happened. And I told him he's like, wow, that's okay. And I said, Can you call him and talk to him? And he said, Yeah, sure. And as soon as I hung up the phone with my husband, I just had this very, very, very strong feeling. If he calls me right back, that means Caleb didn't answer and if Caleb didn't answer something as well. And my husband called me immediately right back. And I was like, oh, no, you know, something's wrong. Of course, my husband thinks I'm panicking. And there's nothing wrong. And so anyway, we went back and forth with that for quite a little bit. I continued on my walk and listening to my podcasts and trying to call Caleb text him over and over my husband you know, like I said, he thought everything was fine, but I knew something was was really wrong. So I kind of got to a breaking point where I was like, Okay, I just need to go get Sammy and I need to drive home because this Just Something's just not right. I even had the idea in my head of calling a friend to go to my house and check on him, which I'm really glad I didn't do. But anyway, my husband and I talked on the phone the entire way that as he was driving home, and when he got home, his car was there, Caleb's car was there. Now, I knew that if his car was there, it wasn't good. But my husband thought it his car is there, everything's fine. So we were really our eye set on what we were feeling and kind of dealing with. And so, of course, my husband and I get off the phone, and then they walk in the house. Said Hey, Caleb. You know, Caleb, what, what's up, buddy? Where are you? No answer. And my husband looked in his bedroom, and he was not in there. When he turned around, he could see straight in our bedroom, and Caleb was lying on the bed. And he said, Hey, buddy, what did you do? And you know, he thought he was sleeping? Sure. But the further he looked, he was just trying to understand what he was looking at. And Caleb had taken his life. And he was he was dead. And our youngest daughter, Jordan was with him. And, you know, my husband was just like, What am I looking at? What's going on in here? And yeah, so, obviously, you know, I tried calling my husband back immediately, and he didn't answer he sent me straight to voicemail. And I thought, okay, he's talking to Caleb. So I think maybe everything's okay. And then I call back again. And he said, Caleb is not okay.
I started saying like, what? What do you mean? What do you mean? He said, he's not okay. He, he got my gun. And I, I still did not register for me that he was dead.
Because my husband didn't use the words he's dead. He just said he's not okay. So I kept thinking hospital, I need to get to the hospital. And my husband said, I have to go, I need to call 911. So I let him go, and I ran and I got my daughter and everything from there's just like, a really big blur. I remember it, but it's just so blurry. I of course, got my daughter. I was panicking, freaking yelling, screaming crying all the everything. And she was really scared what's going on? The horse trainer almost didn't let me leave in my car. I was like, No, you have to let me go. I need to go to the hospital. Anyway, I found my way to the interstate. And I drove and I kept telling my husband No, like, why are we not going to the hospital? And he said you need to come home. And he probably said that to me. 30 times. I just didn't understand. So when I get home, you know, there's a lot of emergency vehicles. There's police officers outside my home. They won't let me go in my house. And we had friends there because I had called a friend kind of like a 911. Hey, you need to get to the house. And so they had they went and they were there. Her and her husband were there. So yes. So after that. Nightmare ensued, and living nightmare ensued. And yeah, so Caleb died by suicide on August 12 2019. For reasons unknown.
I know that one of the things that that I've heard you say is Caleb did not want to die. Process through that with me a little bit.
Caleb did not want to die. I know that when he left school that Monday, he intended to go back on Tuesday, Caleb was stolen from us in a moment of weakness. And we 100% believe that Satan stole him from us. And just like God's Word says, the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. And he said that and he warned us because it's true. And it happened. We believe that just it was just Caleb feeling ashamed of himself, disappointed, feeling a bit overwhelmed was starting his senior year. Feeling as if he had let me down, allowed the enemy to come in and manipulate him. His brain was not fully developed. Right? Everything kind of added up to the perfect storm and he was manipulated into believing that what he was doing what just maybe be a temporary Situation or would quiet the way he was feeling at the time, and he did not want to die. I just I know my son. And I know that he would never leave me on purpose. He loved life, and he loved it fully. And he loved the Lord. So, yes, yes.
And that's evident in the goals that he had written just a few days before.
So as a parent who's lost a child to suicide do you feel like there are unique issues that you have to deal with that complicate the grief journey?
Yes, very much. So. I feel that it is much more complicated, because I don't have a reason or an explanation to why my child is dead.
I know how he died. But I don't know why. And for the little interaction that he and I had for those few minutes before I left the house is not enough for somebody to want to take their life. So I, it has been an extreme challenge to rest in that it happened. And I don't know why Caleb was not depressed. There was no prior indicators at all, you know, the things they say to look out for the signs, the symptoms and things that kids do leading up to making a choice like that there was zero, not a single thing. The his phone was investigated, there wasn't a word mentioned, there was a suicide was never mentioned on his phone. I mean, they did a search. He didn't tell anybody. I mean, he had just got off the phone. Not long after I got home from work, he had just made plans for the weekend with a friend. And you don't do that if you're planning on dying. So it's just it doesn't add up. And it's very hard to manage the grief without an explanation. Yeah. But I've also realized that I don't have to know everything. And that I can still trust God and lean on him. Even though I don't know what happened. And I don't I don't need to know, because it won't change anything. Right. It won't bring like a lot back to me. So, yes, that has been very hard to lay down. And it took quite a while. But I have been able to let that go. Because I see that it won't change anything.
Yes ....I'll let you know, through While We're Waiting, we've gotten to meet many, many parents that have lost children to suicide. And, you know, we've we've met many that are just like you that there were no indications, no signs, not a single thing that you could have done to have changed what happened.
Right.
And, I don't know if that's a comfort in your situation. either.
Yeah. You know, what I do now is, I encourage parents to talk talk to their kids about suicide, even if they need to. Because what a good really, you don't know what's going on in your child's head when they're laying in their bed at night. So I don't I don't know, you know, if Caleb had had thoughts or if he really was struggling because I never asked him and he didn't tell me. And he showed no signs to anyone, teachers, friends, his co workers up his family, nobody. So I encourage those conversations and I think it's very important to begin those conversations at home and ask your kids have you ever thought about suicide? Do you ever want to die? Like is there something in your life that's bothering you so much that you just want to die just so that it will stop? I never never had those conversations okay well it's obviously it's too late for that but it's not you know, too late for the people who can hear my voice when I say you know, even if you don't think you need to your child is everything perfect just like my Caleb just like the child I described. Still ask them those those Questions. And it may be uncomfortable, but it's, yeah. Set up a safety plan, you know?
Exactly. You never had that conversation because there was no apparent need to. Yeah, but what a great way that you can encourage others to have that conversation. I like how you said, Have that conversation, even if you don't think you need to.
Exactly. And I even talked to my teenage daughter quite often about it, and she's living it. You know, yes, she is right in the middle of what happened to our family. And I still ask her questions, sometimes because she has her own life and her own journey and her own things. So I have multiple messages, emails, and things from parents who have used my story and share my Caleb with their kids. And it is helping them and I had a friend tell me that her her friend who had I think four teenagers, sat them down and shared Caleb story with them and asked them, and one of them had said, Yes, I'm struggling this. Well, and then they told me about it. So that just is a little. That's a little hug. To me, that's, you know, I'm doing the right thing by sharing my story.
Sure. And I've noticed you often use the hashtag #talklistenprevent in your social media posts. And I think that's just a great way to help raise awareness too. So is there a particular scripture or scriptures that have been helpful to you on your journey?
Yes, the very first one that was an incredible help to me, was Isaiah 42:16, which reads, "I will lead the blind by way as they have not known along unfamiliar paths, I will guide them, I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places. These are the things I will do, I will not forsake them." And because to me, I was blind, I could not see where I was going, I couldn't see the path in front of me. The path I was on was definitely not known to me, it was very unfamiliar. He says that he would guide me through the darkness and make the rough places smooth. So that was my the very first verse that I kind of clung to, and held tightly. To those words into that promise.
Yeah, I'm glad you shared that one with me. That is not a typical verse that we hear from people a lot. But wow, that's a really good one.
And I want to say that I it was told to me by a bereaved mother. Yes. Yeah. If I remember, she would get it. Yes, exactly. And then another one that I liked. is Matthew five, for the one, you know, blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted, except I liked the Message version. You're blessed when you feel you've lost what is most dear to you? Only then can you be embraced by the one most dear to you? And I feel like, you know, growing up or being in the church for, you know, a while you've heard the Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted. I never knew what that meant. That did not make any sense to me. Until it made sense. Right? Until it needed. Yeah. And I got it. And it's very true.
Yeah, until you so desperately need that kind of comfort. You can't really understand it. Yeah, that's a great scripture so thank you for that.
So what have you learned about God through this experience?
A lot. I have learned that he is faithful, that he honors His promises that he can truly bring Beauty from Ashes. Yes. And that I never understood. The "for good". Like God can bring good out of something. I kind of always kind of shrugged away from that, because I didn't really I didn't understand it. But when I started seeing good come out of this horrific tragedy. Yeah, it made sense to me. And it's like the puzzle piece kind of connected. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, this is this is what he means. When he says, I will work all things together for good. So, yes, I have learned that I learned these things the hard way. I mean, I believed all I believed that God was faithful before Caleb died. But now, I really, really, really truly KNOW that He is faithful. I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be doing well. Or living well, you know, without knowing that for sure.
Yeah, I bereaved mom once said, at one of our retreats, she said, I've been a believer for a long time. But now I'm an experiencer. And that sounds exactly like what you're saying.
I think all of us who are bereaved parents have this very sharp dividing line in our lives. It's like a fault line from an earthquake. And it marks before and after. So think about the before Chrisy and after Chrisy, how is she different?
That's really sad for me. I still sometimes don't recognize myself at all.
Oh, yes. Right.
I feel sometimes I'm a shell of what I used to be. My confidence is gone. My confidence. Now I'm working on these. And my parenting has really taken a hit. Because I parented my son, and then he died. Oh, fear took its place. I, you know, obviously, am in deep grief, and I have trauma and PTSD. I say that my heart is broken, but it's also bigger. Because I see people more like, I think the way God sees them, I just My Compassion has grown for people. You just don't know where they're coming from, or what they're dealing with. And so yes, I say my heart is broken, but it is bigger.
That's a great description. Yes.
And I have also lost my sense of security in the life that we have built. Yeah. Because, gosh, I just really had no idea how quickly tragedy could kill it strike just in a blink of an eye. And everything changes and nothing will ever be the same. So I have lost my sense of security in the life that we have built. Yeah. It's hard to plan for the future. And we'll make big plans for you know, time down the road, but different things. And even thinking about my daughter, she'll be a junior this year, and just thinking about her turning 17 and starting her senior year, next year. I just can't go there.
Right.
I just, I just I'm not secure in that.
So sure. Yeah. One day at a time, you know, you can't look ahead to those in anticipate those really hard things. It's one moment at a time sometimes.
Yes.
You know, Chrisy, I really appreciate just your honesty, and your openness as you're sharing. You know, a lot of times on the podcast, I talk to people that are farther down the road in their grief and things are kind of tied up ... not really with a neat little bow, but they've kind of worked through a lot of things. And we're talking while you're still right in the thick of it. Which is where most of our listeners probably are, too. So I really appreciate just how honest and transparent you are with your grief.
Thank you.
As we're recording this episode, you're approaching that three year mark since Caleb went to heaven. But I do want you to think back to those very early days of grief. What advice would you give to a parent who is just starting this journey?
Okay. Sometimes I find myself back in those moments. Just Oh, yes, you go right back. And I'm just like, No, no, no, no, no. You know, yes. Is just horrific. My best advice is to do the next right thing. And, and then the next day, and what I mean by that is, just brush your teeth. And then when you're done brushing your teeth, if you can wash your face, wash your face, if you need a shower, you know, take a shower. And then what comes after that, you know, maybe a bite to eat maybe a drink of water, just the next right thing, just one thing at a time. And then before you know it, you've made it through the day. And then you wake up, okay, what do I need to do first, you know, put my feet on the floor, and just literally talk yourself through what comes next. That helped me tremendously. Make space for grief, which I didn't want to do that, because I didn't, I was just like, no, like, I need a creative fix, I need a bandaid, like, I need somebody to tell me how to take this pain away, like, make this make this better, I can't do this.
I would say to feel the grief and learn healthy coping skills to not let the grief control you. Because if you make space for it early on, and you allow yourself to feel and move through that grief in a healthy way, it won't catch up to you in a negative way later, you kind of build a relationship with your grief and give it the time that it needs. And then learn how to kind of set it aside not, you know, not put it away, not run away from it. But just to kind of set it aside for a few minutes here and there. And then before you know it, you're able to set up your side longer and and kind of move through your grief, a little more fluid as time progresses. It's very painful. It's very hard search for helpful resources. And I would also ask myself questions like, Is this helping me? Or is this hurting me? Because I would get into how I get into that rabbit hole, you know, of course questioning why and how and what happened and I don't understand and, you know, also, you know, with God, come on God, like, I know you were there to receive Caleb into your arms. I know that Satan did not win. But if you were there to receive Him like you've stopped. And so, you know, I still struggle with that sometimes. With likely, you know, I will kind of always struggle with that. But yeah, I've had to work through that. And so I asked myself, Is this helping me or hurting me right now? And depending on the state of myself, and maybe how many tissues I've used or how bad my head hurts? Or how long have I been sitting here laying here doing this? Okay, this is probably hurting me. So let's just stand up and let's walk into a different room and gather ourselves together.
Yeah, that's a great question to ask yourself. I love that idea.
Yes. One thing that helped me early on was my sister, she was just a resource of information. She just took to Google. And she just wanted to, she wanted to help me so much, and she just didn't know what to do. So she took to Google and she actually found in a book called, How to Survive The Worst that Can Happen. And it was written by a woman who lost her son. And she or she actually emailed the author, the author, mailed her book, she gave me that book, and I started reading it as quickly as possible. And I think I read the first chapter 20 times, because I just related so much to what she was saying. But in that first chapter, she said, No, I can't remember word for word. But she said, You need to say to yourself, you need to say out loud, Caleb, you died. This is the beginning of my new life of healing and learning how to honor you ... now that's not word for word, but it's that's basically what it said. And I would repeat that over and over and over to kind of get my mind to understand Caleb, you've died. This is the beginning of my new life where I need to heal and honor you. So I was very grateful for that book and for my sister in all she did to find me resources.
Yeah, yeah, I can see where that just saying that would be really helpful. Yes, in a situation like yours where the death was so sudden and completely unexpected that there has to be this this period of time where you're where your mind can't even comprehend what has happened. And that you can't believe what has happened.
Absolutely. In that time lasted for several months. Sure, you expect him to come home? Yeah. When my daughter went back to school, you know, that was really hard. You, you know, you expect these text messages and phone calls and, and you're it's just those things are not happening when he's not there. And I just I had to keep telling myself, Caleb, you died. This is the beginning of my new life. You know? It was helpful to me.
Yeah. Yeah, I could see how that would be.
This concludes the first half of my conversation with Chrisy Slate. I hope you'll come back next week as we extend our discussion of issues faced by parents who lose children to suicide, and learn about the organization the Slates have founded in memory of Caleb. Thanks again for listening, and I look forward to sharing the rest of our chat with you next Wednesday.