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ep 32. Decline vs Reject - West Park Park Bench Podcast | Otter.ai

ep 32. Decline vs Reject - West Park Park Bench Podcast

Caron Lyon35min

Caron Lyon

00:02

Welcome to Episode 32 of the West Park Park Bench Podcast. Today's topic is Declined versus Reject. Doing these podcasts over an extended period of time has led me to reflect on how I deal with my own sense of progression. Day to day when things are really good. I find coming and doing these podcasts are fine. I can pick a word that I want to reflect on, and I can wax lyrical about that word. When I get busy. I tend to find that my mind is distracted. And as I only do one of these pieces of constant media, there's a there's a component of it that makes me think that I should be telling people what's going on and sharing what it is that I'm doing, because those things that I'm doing, if people know about them, they can either attend or if they know what I do, or get a sense of what I do that maybe they'll want me to come and do that for them. And that's even better. So, but when I'm busy, my mind can be a little bit scattered. Now when I am not in such a good place I tend to want to hide and descend into a place where I can just be the best version of me that I can be and continue to be that until the lights turn on and I can find a way back into the world. COVID was quite liberating for me because I was able to be the best that I could be because the skills that I had in a world which meant that I didn't have to go out and put the attention into the physical and the effort of putting myself into a place where I can be sociable, happy, not too loud and annoying. And this is where the gregarious introvert phrase which thank you so much Hallidonto for giving me that phrase

Caron Lyon

02:31

and this brings me to where I am now. Last week I decided not to go swimming because I was down and I was sulking because the world's wasn't or I wasn't in a place where I could function in the world, or the world wasn't in a place where I could function in it. Lay the blame where you will. Today, I was sorely tempted not to come swimming. But I know that when I don't swim, I don't have that detachment of self because I spend so much time thinking about moving my arms and legs and at the moment, I've got a shoulder injury. So trying to just focus on my body means I don't have the capacity to multitask and think about my brain. But it also means that I don't come to get this piece make this piece of media and if anyone has been listening to these over the last few weeks, I find these incredibly valuable and they've been a large part of keeping the momentum of the undercurrent of existence going for me.

Caron Lyon

03:50

So decline or reject. I've been so excited to come out of doing my DYCP. Learning how to capitalise an event and taking all of my small business, accounting experience of profit and loss and cash flow and learning all of this vocabulary that had attached to it tasks and skills and knowledge that you need to function to earn a living to feed and clothe yourself and then beyond clothe and feed yourself, the Holy Grail, disposable income and that really, I always say I'm, I'm not. I'm not into loads of money. I'm not a money person. But I am someone who would desperately like to have disposable income to use and that's either to use on funding projects or funding trips. But a lot of the activities really to to to empower others. And the DYCP brought all that together for me. The first thing I wanted to do in the throws of a capitalization hey, this works. Hey, this has got a certain amount of money...

Caron Lyon

05:30

There's always a pause in these podcasts because I sit on a bench that is a small thoroughfare and I tend to sit back and let people pass so also gives me time to cut off if I was in a rant and pick back up my flow if it was something that was was actually a proper train of thought and not just a ramble.

Caron Lyon

05:52

So being able to come out of my DYCP with skills and knowledge to generate that disposable income, and as a freelancer and a solo entrepreneur, that disposable income for me is is to be able to invest in others, but before I can invest in others, I kind of feel like I have to prove that I can do what I say that I do. So that I have a credibility because if people are going to invest in my projects, they're not necessarily invested in the project because if, if the finances are right, and I've got the right project in place, they should do what they're supposed to do. The question is, am I someone who can deliver what I say the paperwork can deliver, and I really wanted to be able to do that and taking a show to Edinburgh was something that was the main objective of my capitalization plan and I had the 100 mile radius tour which was going to have nine weeks touring across the entire country starting in mall on the vague village hall you know and outmost point of where I travelled to and I drawn 100 mile radius from that venue and then I kind of explored the in terms of what what is at the periphery of those 100 mile radius radii. And looking at venues that would then leapfrog me into another 100 mile radius and what was in there and how could I travel down the country, whilst in theory, passing within 100 miles of every single resident in the UK, and there was something about my organisational capacity that really liked that idea. And that was going to conclude by taking that show to Edinburgh, I was going to start it was going to open in Edinburgh, and then it would do its nine week tour. So from Edinburgh, it would go to the Isle of Mull, and then it would travel all the way down the country. And that was the theory. But I realised that time within these projects is really something that I needed to get a grasp upon. Therefore, my word for this year is balance and that balance really came from being able to take attention and control of time and plan out longer processes, so that I can traverse a larger project.

Caron Lyon

08:38

And one of the ways that I want to do that that felt as if it would be a quick win in terms of time, so a year. Edinburgh was not going to be the outcome right now the timescale that I need to do the show that I would want to take to Edinburgh is probably going to take three years span and I need to know that I can finance it before I start doing some of the next bits and some of the next bits intersect with that and dovetail on one is actually building a company team. So having the marketing in place, having the finance in place, having the resources in place to support the cast and crew in a personnel capacity, and that's really important for the company that I want to create. That company will then produce work and that produced work I would like it to have an influence and augmentation with some of very cutting edge technologies of projection and virtual production and the virtual production and the technology part of it is so far down the road that I know that that's not something that's going to happen now and in the short term following along with Chronic Insanity and the work that Joe Strickland and Nat Henderson are doing is something that is a joy to behold and I'm learning so much about small projects, taking a small piece and putting it on keeping it back working on it, developing it, and then producing more nuanced and funded and costed versions of those small R&D Productions.

Caron Lyon

10:33

And then the last year, the 22 Ideas about the Future Page to Stage concept. I love the idea of taking three of those stories, turning them into 30 minute short plays, and being able to produce those and understand how I get those financed and the people that will be around it to take on board with some of the financing. But looking at those stories, they're so rich, and not all of them will make plays. I think I'm starting to get a sense of which ones will but I need to work with dramaturgs and I need to work with playwrights and writers and have the conversation and being locked within my stage management world I've often delivered just exactly what people came and asked of me. But now I've actually got to find a way of reversing that and taking it out into the world.

Caron Lyon

11:29

So one of the things that I've done I was really proud of when I pivoted from truly theatre and going stage management live streaming social media exploring more sort of events, capacity and that was doing a TEDx in 2012. And along with a local resident who we've met at some networking events, we put together a TEDx LaceMarket work together to put the licence together. Looked at the rules, and I really liked that sense of the boundaries that the rules of TED put upon you. And it just means that you can put on something that's quite special, but a lot of the big overheads for any event are the speakers getting, you know, getting their travel accommodation, but also their fee. And one of the things with TED is that there's the pristine around it, and the the rule that speakers cannot be paid. And this is a great opportunity to bring together people who have got so much to share and so many stories to tell, and yet probably wouldn't come to somebody like my little tiny event. At least not with something that's with prestige and I think that's a little bit of of my own self deprecation.

Caron Lyon

13:07

But the topic of the podcast, decline or reject, decline versus reject. I submitted the application for TEDx Nottingham its theme was to be Reality Check. And within the rules, which I kind of felt that I really understands the essence of TEDx.

Caron Lyon

13:40

And that's the essence of the speaker and the speaker story and not selling, not teaching, not trying to educate but bringing people who have got stories to share, that the people who are there to hear them will go away with a sense of perspective. You know, being able to hear those people speak about their perspective on a topic and a theme.

Caron Lyon

14:27

My application was declined. Initially, I was a little shocked because although I've only had one licence of my own, I've spent the last 10 years advising people conversationally about having the confidence to do the TED X and read the rules and as follow the rules, it's all there. It's all written down. And I've attended some great TED, I've watched TED talks, the TEDx talks of events that have taken place after conversations I've happened and I know that things don't always get credited to me, but I know things I've had conversations with and I'm really proud when I see those things manifest.

Caron Lyon

15:17

So to receive a rejection Well, this is and here is where decline rather than reject, to receive a notice of decline, the reason this decline and reject runinatated... its hard to talk about decline in terms of rejection, its a polite connotation around the notion of rejection and exclusion and not being chosen. We're in decline is a word with downward ascent it kind of has a it has a softness to it is you know if, if you if you decline your politely

Caron Lyon

16:27

there's a notion of consent here. Interestingly If you decline to participate, if you decline someone's approach if you back away if you step away if you use that sense of declining you are rejecting the thing that's been offered to you. So, rejection is something you feel whereas when you are declined it doesn't have as much emotion in it as rejection so receiving a notice that has my application has been declined. The only other side of this reject and decline is with Arts Council and applications for grants and funds. And there was no grants or funds attached to the TEDx application is just permission to use their rules and standing orders if we want to take into the realm of trade unionism, which is where I'm kind of very comfortable in terms of having a good set of rules in which keeps you focused and on message and it is about consent. They have not given their consent for me to hide behind the TEDx brand to be able to do something that people recognise. It would be it felt easier to get someone to sponsor a TEDx event than to sponsor my event. And it all just I don't want PCM projects or PCM Creative to be that forward vision. You know, I want to do when I want to make stuff and when I do make stuff for the people, I often don't get a credit. And that's, I guess all I want be able to do is that credit is not about, hey, look, my name is written down there, it's a credit so that if people go that was really good event who organised it. I would like people to know who I was, so they could approach me to do the same thing for them. And I think in terms of the credit crunch, for television with the credits at the end of shows, and there's been campaigns for many years, it's not as prevalent as it was, I think, because of streaming but having a credit at the end of a television in the post roll was really, somebody could say, who was in it, who played a certain role, but also it was really, really important for the technical people, the people who you didn't see on screen, that having your name on the post roll credit. Someone would be able to see that you took part in it and you made your mark, but you weren't on screen and I think that's that's kind of a ...

Caron Lyon

19:56

I think that's the thing about the TEDx is that you couldn't overtly promote and you couldn't do any of that sort of bragging egotistical... The stuff that kind of makes me feel actually quite on the easy. I like things to be good because they're good. But then we're in the age of influence. And the reason why people flock to certain brands is because the influencer is promoting the brand. And the TED was the brand and I think that's the thing it means everybody taking part is no bigger than the brand and the idea is is to not make any one person stand up above the parapet more than the blazing of the red TEDx. But not being able to move forward in the way that I wanted to.

Caron Lyon

20:57

As also left me with a bit of a bruising because I got a little bit excited about being able to do this and I wanted to do it in June, and the licence wasn't hadn't come through and I knew that I couldn't announce it. And I suppose in a way, this is why they don't want you to plan because this sense if they don't give consent. I think this is not giving consent. Is the situation I find myself in. When you take part if you apply for grants and funds, you are rejected from receiving money. And I suppose it's not within their gift to give you the money you are applying or merit of your application which you aren't doing for an application that's going to be looking for permission.

Caron Lyon

22:00

This is the other reason why I wanted to reflect on consent. Its not reflecting on consent. Its decline or reject. But when you get rejected from the arts council you do get some feedback. And there are communities that have sprung up on Facebook their is UK theatre producers or producer, theatres, UK theatre producers, I think it is. And the people's resources that I have found and the dialogue and the different topics and questions that people ask is just phenomenal and Arts Council is always the one and it's devastating when you get an Arts Council application rejection, I have yet to go through that. So I'm kind of I think I'm going to embrace embrace the rejection and reject and the withdrawal of consent because I think that's it this this would decline your application is withdrawal of consent. They hadn't given the consent, but you kind of there was an anticipation that they just wanted to know what you were doing and like, I guess, people could write all sorts of weird things. I just, I just thought I understood the framework of TEDx and it just kind of feels like I've had the rug pulled out from under me. And there's been a few days where that's been a really low point because I'd been telling people that I was doing this TEDx and people as soon as I told them, they were excited in a way that they're not gonna get excited if I tell him that I'm doing a conference. Yeah, there's this. There's this. There's this production, there's this notion of something coming to town which, with the theatre, taking a theatre production into a venue, it is something that's going from place to place there is this sense of procession. And I think that's the thing, although you're only doing one TEDx and you have a year to deliver it. There is a sense that it has a legacy and it is going on and it was a way of jumping on some coattails. Maybe that's wrong of me. But being able to focus on delivering something that had that rigour in it of being able to raise the money, and I hadn't gone in small I wanted to do a redo of of the one that I did last time, which cost around eight to 10,000. This one was going to cost between 12 and 15 because I wanted to do a big living room. However, maybe I should just go for the luxury of the Cosy Club and do technology on trial. Or do an unconference with this reality check, which are events that media camp bar camps. I think there's the same momentum you felt that you're part of a community and I think that was it. I wanted to be part of a community that was delivering something can that would also share and promote through word of mouth rather than having to do just awkward an awful self promotion. Or promotion that comes in cold

Caron Lyon

25:32

Once I've had two or three people walk paths I start to realise that I've probably gone well over my 20 minutes. But you know what, I'm going to indulge this today because this is an important this is an important podcast. This is a podcast that is sharing the thoughts that I would normally not share because I was in a low mood and trying to repair myself from inside

Caron Lyon

26:11

see, maybe I should have just cut it off. I wouldn't have this at the end. But I think it's important. It's important to realise that being able to do anything in this world depends upon the consent of those in power. And I think the consent of those in power and with the Arts Council with consent of those in power, plus the package of money to be able to do what you asked to be able to do is a really important thing, but it does...

Caron Lyon

27:02

I'm starting to build up a very small pot of disposable income. Some of that's built around tax money, that whenever I whenever I do work, and it's a sensible piece of work, I put the 20% aside inevitably at the end of the year, I've not made enough to pay tax on all of that money because you have your personal allowance. So I've got a little bit I'm starting to build up but it needs to be more and I also want to I want to do things that have a delivered outcome, something that happens because that's what's really important because if nothing happens if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it doesn't make a sound and I kind of feel like I fell trees all the time. But no one's ever there to see them fall and sometimes they fall clumsily. But sometimes when they're planned and they're considered and they are prepared for they actually fall quite elegantly. And I just would like to share some of that. Do my own also be able to facilitate others to be able to do that and be able to use some of my disposable income to be able to empower people to make work and I also realise that that isn't money that is ever likely to come back. I mean to find a project that is going to pay you back is very small. So to understand investors and to understand angel investors and venture capitalists. It kind of feels like the step to have done something like TEDx was to be able to use all those skills but still have a little bit of a safety net. That I knew I know that I can pull something off and with a TEDx it isn't a return on investment or money. It's return on investment on engagement and intellect and network and it was being able to be part of, of a TED X part of a TEDx.

Caron Lyon

29:56

So yeah. To decline, or to reject, there's finality, about rejection, there is a finality, whereas is that a word such as declination? Something that declines? There isn't I suppose, and I think this is the other thing I was quite fascinated to receive a letter declining my request

Caron Lyon

30:36

These all the sorts of things I would like to be sitting here and talking to other people. I need to find people in Long Eaton that want to have these conversations. These are not conversations that are going to solve the world's problems. They're not going to solve our own problems. They're not going to make us richer, but just to have a conversation of coming to the end of it and just going I know no more than I did at the beginning, but I feel better. Just being able to reflect on what's gonna come next. No matter what happens the world relentlessly continues and keeping up with that, relent and not relenting. That's another. I do love words. Yeah, I do love words.

Caron Lyon

31:39

So do you know if sitting and recording a response to your decline versus reject two words or a word that you want to reflect on? You know? Tweet me the link. DM me the link posted link posted as a response to this. I would just, you know, I would just really be really lovely to hear an alternative to me just not crying in the wind.

Caron Lyon

32:20

OMG yeah. It's important to share that not everything goes well all the time. And that I so desperately right now want to just turn off every piece of social media. I already have notifications off and I've missed important things recently, but I just can't have it pinging at me all the time. I even asked Chat GTP what, what jobs don't need the internet? And interestingly, all the things that came up with things like the trades you know, electrician, builder, writer or copywriter, ironically in things that don't need the internet for you to do your job. I would love not to have to have the internet but I kind of feel that I disappear even more. Than I do at the moment. I just Yeah, I think I am gonna have to go through a...

Caron Lyon

33:47

I will keep doing these but actually being able to focus on the things that I have right now. And include, and that's it's Balanced, balance is my words and the thing that I'm being shown and the thing that I feel about meditating on Balance is that I thought it was all about my time management and being able to do more, or do less with more. But I've come through the year what I'm realising is that Balance is more than just time, Balances about your health, your wealth, your well being and health, wealth, and well being have nothing to do with time control. There you go. I am going to leave that there.

Caron Lyon

34:54

Thank you so much for listening. If you've got this far I know that this is longer than 20 minutes. I'm even suspecting this is longer than 40 minutes. Thanks, really appreciate it. And next time is episode 33. Join me then

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