I always like scanning across my list of all my friends and enemies. Oh sweet when he was really great, it's so fun to see all these people Julie and all these wonderful people. Thank you for showing up. So, this is something that we started doing when COVID hit or Helga hi hello Gaiden Z. I haven't seen your name in a while. I Helga so nice to see you. I thought I thought you might have disappeared off of my radar. So nice to see you. We started this about two years ago when COVID hit just as a way to hang out and I had no idea that it was going to be going for this long but it has and so we just get together and talk about stuff. Usually the questions you know, we get because I'm only not doing this twice a month, not every week. The questions actually kind of rack up which is great, which means I don't have to do any like blah, blah, blah like I used to, but I always start with a big hello and then also a couple of things. I did a really rich two hour interview podcast on my dual landing one is behind the firewall for nightclub we've posted there first. And then I have a new podcast platform called the edge of mind. And so I spent two hours on Monday with Eben Alexander. Some of you may know him. He's an academic neurosurgeon, who had a best selling book. He was like number one and the New York Times for like 40 weeks and then on the New York Times bestseller for over two years since I met him at a program I did together with Bob Thurman. And since then he's written two other books mapping the mind or map of heaven and living in a mindful universe. So I read all three of these books actually read Proof of Heaven. When it first came out. 2012 or something caused quite a stir. And so I interviewed him for two hours and it was really rich, I think really rich, fun conversation. So I'm editing processing, writing the intro outro and that'll probably be available in a week or so. Chris beige, I supposed to do a second round with him on Wednesday, but we had to postpone that. So he's scheduled for the 11th So he's coming up all kinds of really cool things happening. I'm doing this program. This is a lemonade stand part in Aspen, Colorado outside of aspen. This almost sold out in end of May 1 part of June. My only in person lucid dreaming and Dream Yoga of the year. I'm not doing the Sedona program anymore for a number of reasons. One is I just don't have the time. So this is taking over because it's a whole lot easier to get to. And then I have this nature of mine thing I'm doing with my friend Bob from and actually outside in Manila in July. So I'm really excited about that. That's really fun, deep, deep dive stuff with an amazing teacher. So there were so many great questions that came in that I'm just gonna turn right to them and then get the live ones that are either in the chat column or those of you who are here that want to ask something. So we do a little juxtaposition of pre sent q&a, in addition to the live stuff that that you may all want to discuss, and I keep these anonymous. But if somebody who asked the question is here and wants to follow up or say something else, come on up, and we'll unpack some of these. So here's a couple of questions. Couple of really nice ones that came in. In chapter five of my book, I guess this must be the dreams of light book. Or anyway I don't remember where she were, which Bush is referring to. Can you summarize by saying reality is not like a dream. It is a dream. To avoid the conclusion of nihilism, excuse me, other scholars and Buddhist teachers such as ALAN WALLACE, my dear friend Tenzin Juan Gil, well, I almost forgot. I'm going to be interviewing Tenzin Rinpoche, he asked me to endorse Shambala pub asked me to endorse a reissue of his classic book, The Tibetan Yogi's of dream and sleep. And so he agreed to do an interview. Probably I think later some in the summer when the book comes out. So I almost forgot about that. He's coming up the other scholars and Buddhist teachers like ALAN WALLACE and your friends among your very cool are very intentional about saying samsaric reality is like a dream. It is not a dream seems to be a big difference between some Seligson samsaric reality is like a dream. And samsaric reality is a dream. Could you comment on this? Yes, I can't. It all defense depends on how you define the word dream. Dream is is multi valence term.
That also is kind of code language. So it has a bunch of different meanings depending on context. And so really, it just depends on how you're using that term. So the way I use the term here that reconciles This is and again, it's all a matter of centrifuging out definitions. And context is to me the irreducible definition of dream is manifestation of mind. Let me say that again. The irreducible definition of Dream is a manifestation of mind in and I'm not pulling this out of thin air I mean, the Buddhists you've heard me say this many times. The Buddhist tradition talks about three types of dream. The nighttime dream, the double delusion, the example dream so when people talk about the dream, that's usually what they refer to, but that's just one of three dreams. The example dream, the double delusion, the priority delusion, you could say quote, unquote, the real dream even though on one level, they're all ultimately democratic. In fact, the fundamental for one aspect of fundamental complete awakening is seeing the utter equivalence of all these different states that they're in. This is why you can say it's all a dream. It's all a manifestation of mind. arising in different kinds of frequency domains. And so one type of dream is the nighttime dream. Second type of dream is this. This is a dream. That's what the Buddha woke up and discovered, this is a dream. And then the third type of dream is is the dream at the end of time, death, the Bardot's and so everything depends on how you define the word dream. And so saying that samsaric reality is a dream. It's got Clelia legitimate thing to say, because it's a display of the mind. And then just connect to a deeper question about rig pot and nature of mind. So that's the way to reconcile that. Now within that if you're using different definitions of dream like Alan and Tenzin Mueller doing, Elon is very clear, like you said, saying it's not a dream. It's like a dream, then that's the different context of the use of dream in comparison to the nighttime dream. And there in that case, it's not the same because in the nighttime is more solipsistic, its you were mostly not exclusively, you can definitely have influences within your drain that are not yours. So it's not exclusively solipsistic or just your thing, but the nighttime dream in that respect, samsara then is not like that, because here we have collective dreams. We share a collective dream. And so within that, that kind of juxtaposition and dancing between the terms you can reconcile these particular statements, okay. All right. Further on chapter five. I got myself in trouble with chapter five. I summarize again by saying the world is being dreamed by the clear light mind. Yes, I do remember saying that. Illusory practice is dropping down into the clear light mind. Yes, based on teachings and studies, I have understood the clear light mind to be a non conceptual and free from all mental afflictions. That's true. I have never considered the clear light mind to take on a dreaming action. Could you explain further what you mean by the world is being dreamed by the clear light mind? See, there you go. Again, same issue depends on how you define the word dream. So what you're saying again, we're both right. So this is again, why I love integral approaches. Because we're both right. Testimonials, right? I'm right. ALAN WALLACE is right, these teachings about rebar. All right, just depends on what context you're talking about. So when we talk about when you say the clear light mind to be non conceptual, free from all mental afflictions, absolutely, positively. And so if you if you say, if you're saying then that the clear light mind is generating your dream, based on what we know is our traditional dreams, which is really based on unconscious afflictions and projections then Then what you're saying is true. There's a dissonance there, the clear light mind does not do that. But if you're talking about the clear, light, mind, radiating manifesting all of reality, then you can totally say that the clear light mind dreams this world into existence, so everything really depends. Again on how you use this multivalued polygamous term called Dream.
And so yeah, that's the way to reconcile that to work with it. Okay. So the world is being you could say radiated displayed, manifested using the trachea principle and in the non dual, I'm sorry, the Advaita Vedanta people talk a ton about this sort of thing, right? Everything is using their languaging everything is the display of pristine consciousness. Okay, and then the last one, in addition to samsaric reality being dreamlike and illusory. It seems like you are saying in the audible course, that the true nature of things emptiness is illusory and dreamlike as well. If this understanding is correct, are you saying from the from this perspective? Are you saying this from the perspective that emptiness itself is empty and illusion as well? Yes, and no, I'm not saying it's an illusion. And so the first part is absolutely right. The emptiness of emptiness. That emptiness itself is empty. And there's a whole book on this, you can literally google it. It's literally called the emptiness of emptiness. I highly recommend it academic is a scholarly book, but it's totally on it. But it's not an illusion in that sense. So the second part of your statement I don't agree with or at least that's not doesn't land with me. Emptiness is illusory. Now, again, it depends on how you use the word illusion. Usually, when we use the word illusion, it means that it you know, it's not real, it doesn't exist. Well, if we talk about illusion and our truer sense that illusion really suggests that things that are appear are not in harmony with reality, not in harmony with reality. That's the way we use illusion. So to say that this world is illusory, doesn't mean it's not real. What it means is that its status of existence. This is where emptiness comes into play is not in harmony with its its status as emptiness. See. So hopefully that helps. These are really good questions. Okay, so there's some more here. Those are probably the biggest deepest ones. What's the difference between lucid dreaming and astral travel out of body experiences? Well, there's a big difference. And there's a there's a lot. There's some really interesting literature here that I'll refer you to. First of all, astral travel is not something that's overly discussed in the wisdom traditions, they talk more about special green bodies and using the nomenclature will be eased, but I get what you're talking about. There is a big difference. Because when you're having a lucid dream, you are still within the context of your own mind. And so you're actually not leaving your body when you're having an out of body experience. And there are this is where it gets a little interesting. There are certain aspects not of lucid dreaming, but if Dream Yoga, I think it's like my stage seven and seven, thinks the 7am I cartography, where you create what's called a special dream body made out of prama mind that then can allegedly leave the physical body and travel in this kind of astral kind of way. But generally, lucid dreaming and astral travel will be easy and not the same thing. And in fact, I would have no question whatsoever the vast amount, not all of them. This is well I talked a little bit about with Eben Alexander because he had a one week out of body experience. When he was in this coma for the week. If you haven't read his story, he spends the first 25 minutes of our conversation recapitulating what he went through, it's really pretty mind bending. Most out of body experiences are not automatic, out of body experiences. Most out of body experiences are altered embodiment, they're not out of body, they're altered sense of embodiments. And so therefore, there's ways to test this and I'll give you some ways where you can test if I do this myself, when I'm having experiences that I think like Hey, am I really into cavity and there's a question about pure lands coming up? Am I really into pure land? Am I really having an OBE? Or is just this hyper lucid dream? There's ways to test that and I do this in my dreams. It's like okay, whoa, this is super real loud. Is this an OBE or is this a hyper lucid dream? Most of the experiences are hyper lucid dreams. And their literature here. I always refer to these sources. Evan Thompson in his masterpiece, waking, dreaming being self unconsciousness in neuroscience, meditation and philosophy. He has an entire chapter on this. One of the best things out there read it. The other one is in an anthology by a better device, Stephen Lubbers and Jane Kobach called What's it called Conscious sleeping brain conscious mind or something like that. Susan Blackburn, who's a
pair psychologist, actually, I think she's not an issue pair psychologist or psychologist. She has a PhD really, really super smart gal. She has a couple of really at least one if not two really interesting chapters in that anthology. If you can get it, it's out of print, but you might be able to find it on a Libra or something where she talks about this sort of thing. So there is definitely a difference. When you're having a two out of body experience. You are no longer here. You are literally out of body. Lucid Dreaming you're still here. And so if you haven't hyper lucid dream and you want to be able to determine whether you're having a hyper lucid dream or an out of body experience, I do this all the time. There's two things you can do. One is probably the best test is spin, spin. If you're in a dream, and you spin one way to it, this is a double duty exercise. If you do this and you're having a bad lucid dream or whatever you want to get out of it. There's several ways you can get out of it. One is close your dream eyes that will usually wake you up. The second thing if you want to stay lucid is just is just say okay, I don't like this lucid dream. I can't seem to control it. I want to change this scene. I want change this movie. Spin. Spin in the dream literally just spin like a whirling dervish you want when you stop spinning 99 I don't know what the actual stats are, but they're super high. You will almost always stop spinning and you will be in a different scene. And so if you do that, bingo, whoa, this is not an OBE experience. This is a hyper lucid dream. Why? Because the same is different. If you spin in an OBE and you stop, you're in the same scene. That's probably an OBE. Other things just try to read if you can read it in a dream, which is really hard to do. And I do this you know again to test is like okay, I'm gonna try to read this. I'm gonna if I'm really struggling, like I'm really struggling to read. This is a dream. I'm not having an OBE if you're having an OBE you'll be able to read. Okay. All right. Fun stuff. Oh, here's another good one. These are great. Is it possible to have or have you ever spoken to your subconscious mind? My subconscious mind is always speaking to me. In fact, it speaks so much it pretty much dominates my life. But anyway, I'm kind of playing with this notion. Is it possible? Or have you ever spoken to your subconscious mind by the way, there's a difference between subconscious and unconscious? You're probably meaning unconscious rather. Than subconscious. But I get what you're saying. Have you ever spoken to use their conscious mind and lucid dream and asked to make it easier for you to have more frequent lucid dreams? I haven't. But what a great idea. This is fantastic idea. I've never actually tried do that. It would be like a form of auto hypnosis. And it's definitely worth trying. This is a really great question. Nobody's ever asked that before. Love it. I haven't done that. But next time, I'm going to try it's like a form of a hybrid state of consciousness where your conscious mind is meeting your unconscious mind directly short of hypnosis. One of the rare instances where you can do this so this is a little bit of like auto suggestion. I'm going to try this haven't done it yet. I once read that affirmation spoken to your subconscious mind in the lucid dream are many times more effective than affirmations when you're awake, do you have any experience with this? I have experienced with that but not with the first part of your question. And for sure, the second part of your question is precisely why you do lucid dreaming and in particular Dream Yoga, because it's more efficacious in the tantra as it says, the given numbers and archetypal numbers don't take it literally. The things you do in the dream state are seven or nine times more powerful than what you do on a in a waking state. Why? Because you're working with the unconscious mind. You're working with the tectonic plates of your experience. And so the second part of your question, absolutely. I do this all the time. That's why I do Dream Yoga. So I have a lot of experience with this. It's in the literature. It's part of our regular practice. I have done that. The first part of the question I have not done but what a great idea. I'm going to try it. I'll get back to you. That's a good one. Okay. Okay, absent a local agents
to gain enlightenment by force of will. First of all, that won't happen. So I'm going to read this as a longer question. I'm going to stop this as we go along. That will never happen. Because really enlightenment in a certain set in a certain sense is the absence of will. It's the release of you. So this is important, the whole notion that I'm going to attain enlightenment, you cannot attain enlightenment. That's a contradiction in terms that's a total oxymoron. Enlightenment is defined by the very absence of you and therefore there was no will see. So absent a local agent to gain enlightenment by force of Well, well, that's never going to happen. Is my success on the path entirely a matter of the karmic traces? No, it's not. You know, your success on the path is defined first of all, by how you define success. I'm not trying to be smart se here. What is success for you? You know, like, is it like leading a more comfortable life and your comfort zone? I'm not being critical? Is it being more mindful and kind and compassionate and and loving more awake, more lucid? Is that success, then that's real success. So that part depends on how you define success. Is my success on the path entirely a matter of karmic traces? No, not at all. It's it's really, part of it is driven by karmic traces. For sure. Again, this is there's there's bandwidths of truth both in the yes or no column here. That part of your success Yes, is somewhat predisposed by karmic predispositions talents and that kind of propensity absolutely, positively, and therefore this is why you want to create good habits create good karma, to stuff the ballot box for your next life. So then those good habits, the force of habit, karma is then used in your favor. So it's not entirely a matter of karmic traces, but it is definitely a contributory factor. to it, for sure. But then it's also a matter on a deeper level success is defined by the alleviation of karmic traces. So again, it defines like what what kind of karma you're talking about. This is the kind of nuanced that's required to unpack these types of questions. What do you mean by success? What do you mean by karma? I mean, this is not philosophical arm sharing, this is important you have to make these distinctions. So on one level, yes, good karma. You want to make good karma that success will help you in this life and in future lives. If you believe in that sort of thing, but absolute real success, ie enlightenment is the alleviation of all karma. Only you know, karmic getting rid of all your karma, all your habits. Only Buddha's are habit free only Buddha's or Karma free. So on one level, yes. You can use relative approach karma to create conditions conducive to the path or otherwise you wouldn't be here asking these questions. But fundamentally, you want to get rid of all karma. Right? Okay, continued I see my attention in constant motion movement, that's for sure. We all have various degrees of ADD. Practice, I'm told will make it more obedient. Yes. Turn your mind to an ally for sure. Absolutely. Science has shown us that the science and I talked about this with Eben Alexander as well the difference between science and scientism? Science doesn't have the answer to everything. I understand the effect of habit. That's really good. But what does my attention attention obey? That's a really great question. You should read oh my gosh, there's such a vast literature here the attention Revolution by ALAN WALLACE you should read the master in his emissary by Ian McGilchrist. He has an incredible section on attention from a scientific approach. But what what does my attention obey? Well on one level it obeys. Like you're intimating, it obeys your habits. It capitulates to your habits, but on another level, it can obey your intention and that's what meditation is about. Attention is the most coveted commodity on the planet. Barnabe is nothing more important than attention and your attention will obey you whatever that is through the practice of meditation and that's back why you want to do it so that you don't get swept away with relentless forms of add ADHD and like, you attend you know, you attend your life becomes fuller, more rich, more rewarding through the practice of attention. What's that? Meditation?
Continue long question. I see my motivation and effort wax and wane Welcome to the human condition. That's normal. Is this entirely a product of prior causes and conditions? Mostly? Yes, I wouldn't say entirely but mostly, it's waxes and wanes, like the moon and like everything else, based on the arising and biting and cessation of various karmic propensities, absolutely. You can change this right so, is this product entirely a product of prior causes and conditions? Yes and no. Sometimes it can happen. serendipitously through spontaneous degrees of openness and attention like when there's a number of experiences being an intense sensory environments like that. And even sometimes, irrespective of that the mind can be brought fully into the present moment. But you can you can again, stuff the ballot box with prior causes and conditions that you generate, right. So prior causes and conditions are not always deleterious, they can actually be used in your favor. The whole idea again, is the power of meditation, I see my mind sway from near obsession. Two careless drifting again, you have a pretty normal mind everybody does that is my course determined? And if so, is my course determined and if so, how? No, it is not determined. Its condition but it's not determined. Not in the sense of determinism, and the whole ridiculous scientific thing that you're just nothing of the consequence of your neurons and you have no free will and all that kind of stuff. That's just ridiculous. Your course is conditioned, but it's not determined in that respect. Otherwise, you wouldn't have any freewill and then like, why bother? Nothing would change. So another great set of questions. Terrific, and I hope I'm not going too fast here but there's a lot so let me see I got that one.
Oh my god, some of these are out there. I love this as a curious that's how I often define myself. That's my new calling card. Yes, I'm a Buddhist. That's my main path, but I'm more curious than a Buddhist I'm more curious about reality. As a curious I wonder how likely is it that Jane Roberts and her husband Oh, this is this stuff? This is the Seth material stuff. I this stuff really affected me like I hate to say how many decades ago right? When I read I read I consumed every one of Jane Roberts books. I actually had communication with her. We had a really sweet correspondence and I couldn't believe it. She actually hand wrote back these letters to me she was such a sweet, wonderful person. Was it likely that Jane Roberts and her husband knew about the metaphysical teachings of the pure lands Abbe Dharma kala chakra, or other similar doctrines? Before Jane started channeling the Seth material? I have no idea. I can only speculate. My suspicion is zero. But again, how do I know how likely is it that she had metaphysical teachings on the pyramids? You know, I think again, those specific teachings I doubted very much like why would she? Why I mean, why, however, did she have you know, she and her husband knew about the metaphysical principles of the puroland medical principles related to the army Dharma principles, conflict with the college chakra then I would say yeah, I mean, why not? That to me makes sense. But why on earth which she herself, even SAF for that matter? Because there it has been so long since I read that stuff. But I don't remember anywhere, any reference to any of these terms, and why should there be, but the principles that underlie those by not what is your opinion, that's my opinion for what it's worth? While watching the recordings of your puroland workshop, I suddenly felt that to me, the concept of Amitabha including the fourth moment and Seth, Seth to entity, you know, I don't know the Ceph two entities so I don't I can't speak to that. The pyramid Gestalt moment points inverted time See, I don't know about that. Oh, more or less the same. Oh, boy, this is tricky. Well, first of all, I can't answer this with any authority because I don't know the staff to entity and secondly, we have to be a little careful here. This is one of the most contested topics in the whole spiritual, philosophical business. And it's still contested to this day, there used to be a tremendous popularity with what's called a perennial philosophy, which fundamentally said everybody's saying the same thing. The spiritual, traditional and whatever, you know, the Hindus are saying the same thing as the Buddha says the Sufis is the mastics. And my answer to that in scholarship, it has shredded this notion is Who on earth can say this? Who on earth has traveled one of these paths to fruition, let alone all of them? Nobody? If there is, I've never heard of them. So again, this is really this is a very interesting topic of just because they use the same principles is also like a big revolution. 40 years ago with a Tao of physics which I read the dancing really master let's I read all this stuff, saying oh, the physicists are saying the same thing as the mystics Well, first of all, no, they're not not even close. But because they use the same words unity ONENESS consciousness. Again, this is this has ties into the earlier question. I'm the same signifier. Does that mean the same signified? These are multi Vaillant terms. So just because they use the same languaging are they saying the same thing? No, you can't make this conflation. You can't say that. So I can't speak with authority about the same thing. Could there be some resonance and Confluence? I don't doubt it. I think there probably is because reality is not an endless sliding scale. It's not radically relativistic. The whole post modernism thing, where everything is purely context bound. No, no, there are absolute truths for sure. So that's why this this topic again, is this is a really great question. There is, in my estimation, on understanding and I've had this concept in conversation with people like Swami suburbia Nanda listened to the edge of mind podcast there where I asked him I said, Hey, Swami Ji, you're using this term pristine consciousness. We don't use that term as Buddhist. Would you say that that is basically isomorphic or the same with emptiness? And he said, Yes. And so there is there is this kind of confluence I think,
but again, who who can say who has that kind of authority and the scholarship here has decimated the notion of the perennial tradition. Nobody can really say this with any authority. Even though they're saying the same words. Do they refer to the same thing? Oh, noes. Do they all eventually potentially lead to something maybe? I don't know. I haven't traveled all these past any completion. So these are anyway really good questions. Okay, boy, they're just pouring out and he's awesome. There's one more here ah, this is another great one. Oh, this is one I had or this is my friend Julie. This is a really good one. These are all exceptional questions that I was reading the land of Bliss. I think I recommended that book in the Pure Land teachings. When I came across the passage, which denied women entrance into Amitabha sukawati and insisted that they not only aspire to be reborn as men, I mean, like what it talks about patriarchal pardon my expression bullshit, sorry, this is bullshit. But should feel disgust with their female only body. I mean, this is this is we read a grossest book Buddhism after patriarchy. Unless you think like any other tradition that Buddhism is somehow exempt from this patriarchal nonsense, no way. It's ridiculous. You will not find it I have not found this in the original sources. I have not found it in the route Tonto route text here, and I know some people whose names I won't say, say the sort of thing. This to me this is just me. This is patriarchal BS. I remember you saying this is not true. It's not true. Is there is no gender and Amitabh is eternal and there isn't. Can you elucidate? I just did this stuff gets me riled up, Julie, and again I'm using your name because you're a dear friend. Just as I'm sure it gets you riled up and all the women listening to this, this is just this is ridiculous. To somehow think you have to get out of this female body, to be reborn as a male to attain the Pureline I mean, are you kidding me? This is this is like this is where you have to understand and this stuff can be explained right? This stuff really, this guy really gets my guilt because it's so patriarchal, it's so misogynist, it just makes me want to throw up. This is where you have to understand the difference between states and structures of consciousness. This is so important. Because you can have you know, whoever these people are, they profess these things. And I say I know these names, but I won't say them. Whoever these people are the professor this ridiculous, patriarchal, misogynist thing. They may in fact, have legitimate high state realization. Experience, I say it's not even stable as realization. It's still just experience. So you have to centrifuge that out. It's not even realized it's experienced there's a difference. But unless they remain in total silence unless they don't open their mouth and don't move. The minute they open their mouth and they move they have no choice, but to express their limited experience. It's not even realization through the archetypal blind spot of a structural level of development and this is where the crack show starts. Because yes, you can have 100% legitimate experience. But then you're going to download it through these blind spots. You don't look at structures, stages, you look through them. And this is why most people don't see these things. You can't glean them through first person phenomenological methodologies. These are gleaned through statistics and Western methods of acquisition of data acquisition, and this is where in my estimation, there is a colossal blind spot in the contemplative traditions. They don't understand this because they don't you can't introspect these things. And so these are classic proclamations by people that may have some level of state realization, but I'm going to say this very directly, because some people say don't use this word. Well, I'm going to use it. They're retarded structurally. I'm sorry. They're retarded. Structurally, their developmental their misogynist. You just go through the whole thing. How else can you explain not only this, but all these endless scandals, power abuse, sexual abuse, which will never stop until people understand I don't care what your state level is. If you're still a structural moron.
You see how this gets me a little wild up? This is ridiculous in my opinion, but this is good. I love where we get to some good stuff here. I felt off putting no kidding high five. So do I. I wondered if Tara had a pure land. Yes, she does. And in fact, interesting timing, Julie because I'm literally just this morning I'm in active conversation with a wonderful female scholar practitioner. She's about to go into three year retreat, but I'm going to get her before she goes in her name is Heidi Klippel. I knew her in Katmandu days. She is a Tara expert. And she attended my puroland stuff, when she started asking me questions about guitars, puroland and so I invited her to come on board for nightclub to do some teachings for the nightclub community on the Terra principle and even Tara's puroland and even maybe a Tara sadhana and so she is going to come in and do a riff on this stuff for a couple of months before she goes into three year retreat. So stay tuned here. I'm super excited. She's a great gal. Okay, so I googled thairis puroland, well, maybe you can do better than that. Instead of googling it, why don't you just go there? Go there in your lucid dream make the aspiration to stage seven Dream Yoga practice. I want to go to Tara's pure lamp, and came upon an article about tars pure land and Buddha's weekly I described it described her pure land is full of verdant forests, waterfalls, birds and peaceful wildlife. Isn't this stuff just as beautiful, right. Interestingly, it said Tara's Pure Land was in Patala Potala being Avila quiche as far as pure land, which is an Amitabha cavity right? Have you ever come across anything about this? I chuckled because this stuff is just so mind bending Julie, I have not come across this specifically. So I can't speak with authority about this. On one level, and I'm fairly read on on Amitabha sukawati. So I have not read anywhere that this was kind of a subset of Amitabh is sukawati That just doesn't seem to settle with me. But again, I can't speak with total authority. I'd like to see what you where you read this. Maybe send me the link. So I can read it. Because don't believe Don't believe everything you read right? Don't believe everything. You read, but I can't speak with authority here. I mean, on one level, are they connected? For sure. I mean, all the pure lands are connected by pure Lean principles, but they're not all the same. Otherwise, why would there be so many of them, right? So cavities, definitely not the same. It has unique characteristics. I'm not that facile with all these other ones. There's literally hundreds if not 1000s of are these and most of them are they require at least first blooney realization the visa requirements by languaging are pretty high. So I don't spend a ton of time with some of these other ones and so I can't speak with a lot of authority about that. But the first part, for sure. That was my elucidation. These questions are so good today. Okay. Am I missing anything? Oh, there was one one. Let me just see here. I think I already answered that one. So many here. I do have to make sure I'm getting them all. Oh, I don't think I answered this one last time. I would like to the main difference between yoga nidra and Dream Yoga. I understand that one. We did or didn't. We did. Oh, thank you the leads I thought I did. Okay, so I think I got through them all. I will take some live ones and ping through and see if I missed anything. Otherwise I delete these as I read them.
But Marianne with a hand up I can get her you did real quick. Fire away.
Hi, Andrea.
Hello. How are you?
I'm great. Thanks. I'm great. How are you?
I'm basically good.
I came to report back on assignment you gave me Oh,
okay. Cool. All right. I can't remember what assignment I gave you. But I'm happy
to hear. It was the same thing you were speaking earlier. I seem to be having out of body experiences for many, many decades now. And you gave me the spinning assignment.
Alright, how did that go?
Oh, cool. Because well, first of all, the day before you gave me the spinning assignment, I had a dream I was spinning. And then a few days after that, I started feeling like I was coming out of my body. And so I could remember everything you told me to try first cuz you asked me if I could move and I said no, I couldn't move and
oh. Which would be the first big clue that you're in a dream because you're when you're in dream you're in Rab. When you're in REM you're suffering from sleep Etonians so that makes sense. Okay, thanks for joining Montgomery. Got it.
But you know, I get this whooshing sound and with the whooshing sound, it feels like I'm leaving my body but I don't go far away from my body. I'm kind of hovering around my body. And so the first thing I tried to do was I tried to open my eyes and so with some effort, I was actually able to open my eyes and look around a little bit and still feel like I was out of my body. And so then I tried to move and with a little more effort I actually was able to move but as soon as I moved my body I went back into my body. I close my eyes and I was in just another moment I floated a little bit back out of my body. And then I remember Andrew told me to spin it so I did. And it was so cool. I was I spun around like three times. And what was really, really surprising is when I stopped spinning, I had I was still there it was right there. But I had like this after spin you know how like I have an after spin when my body's not moving yet. So I didn't go anywhere. I mean, I was very much there.
And so well I mean first of all Hi Fi that's awesome. I'm just writing a note here before I forget that you remember to actually do that. And so it sounds like you didn't say it overtly, but it sounds like when you stopped you were you were more or less having the same experience the same scene. So that would definitely suggest more of this OBE type of thing. Yeah. And so, yes, how did it feel when you were coming back in that? Was it a comfortable feeling? Did it feel just kick? Can you share what it actually felt like when you got slapped back into your body so to speak?
deal because I kind of float in and out a lot and I have a little bit of control over it. And so I knew that if I just it only happens when I'm in a liminal space so I can control if I make myself wake up a little bit. I go back into my body and then if I let go a little bit more, I'll just go into a dream state. I'm gone.
Cool. So what do you intend or foresee with future explorations? Along this line? Do you have you are you intending to just be more open ended and just see how this unfolds? Or do you have like a particular kind of path quality orientation to this or none of the above?
i I have no idea have been doing this for years and years and it's in it only happens in the liminal space, like I say float around my body and I can either make myself wake up or I can choose to go to sleep. And then I just go into, you know, just go into dream space. Yeah, I do. But I've never ever been able to share it with anybody. So it's just so cool.
That's awesome. So here's what here's what I might recommend. One is I'm not familiar with this particular institute in the sense that I've never done anything formally with them. But the whole you probably know this. The whole Monroe Institute works with this a ton. And I again, I can't speak I'm always careful about what I say because sometimes just because I mentioned something, you may suggest that I'm endorsing it, and sometimes I do that overtly. But I can't endorse this because I just don't know enough about it. But I do know a bunch of people that have attended my Dream Yoga programs that have done stuff with the Monroe Institute, and have really cool things to say about it. Again, no endorsement, but you might want to look into that. The second thing let me share this with you another person that I'm going to be interviewing in this preparing to die program that we keep promising we're going to launch which we will once I finish this damn book. The deadline in July for everything's on hold because of this. He writes about shared crossings and literally 20 minutes before he came on this program. To like my time I was in conversation with a hospice worker, Advanced Directives gal. I'm updating my advanced directives, and we're just riffing about some stuff and she was telling me about this gentleman's work and for some reason, even though I have him scheduled to be interviewed, I'm spacing his name. And let me share the story with you because she she really respects this guy. And he works a lot with nd ease and OB ease and stuff like that. And she was telling talking to me a little bit briefly about shared crossings and how there are certain people, psychics, intuitive Empath, sensitives, that when someone is actually dying when they're transitioning, they they meaning the person alive will leave their body is dying person leaves their body and therefore they she actually shared again, I know nothing about this, but I'm gonna learn the this the person who then is so to speak, but it's actually kind of leaving with the dying person can then actually witness the life review of the person who's actually dying. I mean, how far out is that? So I have no idea about this stuff. i This is last have I heard I have not experienced this. But this whole notion of shared crossings and OVS and whatnot, I mean it. It definitely stretches the mind and so I'm going to leave you with a little playful Maxim around this, that I think you'll get the light hearted spirit behind it. But this is a little bit the way I stand with this kind of stuff. I think like a Rinpoche somewhere he heard this he shared it with with people he said, You know, it's really important to have an open mind. But if your mind is too open, your brains will fall out. Right? I love that, like their hands. I'm sorry. You have to find that middle path.
Exactly. You have to find that middle path. Because otherwise it's just it's a it's a radically relativistic free for all it's like, that's not integral theory. That's interval fantasy. And so somewhere in there is the truth. And I can't speak with authority on some of these things that I just don't know. But I'm okay. I'm agnostic. I'm okay. Being agnostic. I'm okay with the open questions. I'm okay not knowing. But I'm also a little bit like you know, when people share some of these things with me, and, and I'm, you know, my little scientific hat comes on, and then my little skeptical voice comes on, it's like, you know, maybe but I'm just not so sure. And so I'm not here, I mean, who am I to say this person is not having this legitimate experience. And this came up a little bit around the world with Eben Alexander because here's an academic neurosurgeon, who has this outrageous out of body experience for a week risks his entire career to write about it, and gets absolutely shredded. I won't name these names, but the traditional materialistic people that just seem to irrespective of what Evan says it was all hallucination even though he had no neocortex. He was brain dead basically. And this just, you know, they can't buy it and so they just dismiss it out of hand. So I say that tongue in cheek but also with a little bit of truth that I do think it's important to have an open mind. But I don't think everything is game here. And I'm again, I'm not challenging you at all. I think you get where I'm coming from that you know, dose of Rob replicability, reproducibility, authenticity proof, I think there's something to be said for that. Otherwise, this this stuff can degenerate into just wing flapping New Age stuff. So we just have to be advised animation a little bit careful. And so a lot of this stuff, some of it I don't know anything about outside of what I read. And so I'm always careful to say things if I haven't had direct experiences, I've never had an experience of doing a shared crossing with somebody so I can't speak to that. But thank you for what you shared. It's awesome. I mean, super. Yeah, thanks. Keep up the adventures. I let me know what you discover. Okay. Okay, maybe, maybe next time you go ahead. The aspiration of like Julie, go check out Tara's puroland and come back and file a report just make the aspiration. I have I really want to see I don't want to go to this patriarchal and again, I'm not because that's not I want to go to a so called feminine puroland. Right. And I want to go to Torres Pureline. Check it out. Come back, find a little report and we'll bring you back on air. Okay.
Thanks for the assignments. Totally.
Okay, I'm gonna go through we just want to get one or two things here in the chat column. Oh from Tim Hogg and due to Andrews presentation for the shift network. This week was excellent. Thank you for that, Tim. I don't even remember what I said. But if you thought it was excellent, maybe it was okay. I do know that they had like 40 people right, Tim? I mean, now it's 4040 hours 40 people presenting? So that's a lot. Okay. Oh, some nice comments. about keeping this going. That's great. from Virginia question, can you explain when it's good to just sit with something that comes up in meditation, feeling strong thought or emotion. And when it's better to just let go of what comes up, label it thinking and go back to watching the breath. What a great question continues. I've heard meditation teachers talk about how unnecessary it can be to just sit with what comes up. Not creating storylines about it but just allowing it to be whether pleasant or unpleasant. Yes, that's true. without indulging without repressing totally true. And also have heard about them. Talk about how helpful it is to just label our thoughts or feelings is thinking in order to lessen our identity with it. In order to let it go, which provides more spaciousness, your input would be appreciated. Oh, great question. Virginia. Hey, in an integral approach, both these approaches work, they're great. Both have potential near enemies and near friends and so one near enemy of chess labeling and letting go is valid is that is I'm not dismissing it at all. This is the way I was trained in meditation. Something comes up you label it, you let it go, you label it, let it go. Well, the there's the near enemy of that is if you're not getting to the underlying Genesis like of why is this thing still coming up? I'm going to let go let go let go let go maybe maybe I can eventually dissipate that habit, karma, whatever. So that doesn't continue to arise, maybe. But the other approach is a little bit more analytic. And I'm talking about now, not just this kind of cognitive analysis, but somatic analysis. And I'm writing a book about this right now. So I'm big into this. This is the bug is the deadline I have to get by. Yes, the willingness, the ability to simply just be with what arises. And this usually is not just a thought, because thoughts usually when you try to be with them, because they're so featherweight, they just dissolve right. So the the approach of labeling and letting it be letting it evaporate usually applies to the formality of more transient narratives that just similar self liberates them like snowflakes falling on the hot rock. But if the Snow Peak snow flakes, just keep falling in your rock isn't hot enough. Then there's maybe something deeper going on that's usually brought about by these unprocessed energy patterns, these samskaras and then therefore, the second approach comes into play, where you then work with the energetic. You allow your mind to rest with that, not indulging, not impressing, but digesting and metabolizing and therefore you you stop the narrative. You feel it, you feel it, you don't feel it. You feel it. The narrative comes in, you know, you've lost it when you capitulate to the narrative. That's what you let go of. You come back to the underlying feeling. And then eventually that energy that's the trapped energy. Let me say that I'll say this several times. It's the trapped constipated energy, that samskaara that initiates the reiteration of these particular patterns. So in order to liberate those deeper patterns, you have to digest, metabolize and fundamentally excrete metaphorically, that energy process. It, that won't be done by just labeling it. That has to be done with this deeper somatic work, see? And so this is a really great question, but which is such a big question. I'm writing a book about it. I'm not kidding, in the context of reverse meditations. So it's against the process of integral approaches. They both have their applicability. You can use them depending on the kind of the intractability of the mental pattern. The emotional pattern is just a fleeting thought, label it let it go. If it's repetitive, it's more charged. It feels like wait a second, this is deeper, deeper, deeper. Then I engage for me, it's like okay, I need to spend more time with this one. Don't adults don't repress it, stay with it. It's like susuki Roshi says, Don't be a smoky fire. Be a good bonfire, let it burn, let it burn, let it burn. And that means sometimes feeling the burn, and then eventually that energy will be released process metabolized. Okay, great question. These are so good today. Okay.
From Tim, when you say you will not attain enlightenment, do you mean the ego? Yes, mostly, but it's basically not just the ego term is any bandwidth of identity that's not enlightened but principally ego. Yes. I really want to know that I am moving to deeper levels of spiritually okay. How do you know that? Well,
look at your life.
Are you less distracted? Are you more kind, compassionate, loving, generous? Do you spend your time doing more the noble things that's when you know you're making deeper levels? It's not hard to see. Just be honest about the way you're relating to other people. Are you less reactive? Are you more responsive? you're progressing. Don't you think that through our practices we can do that? Yes. If you're not kidding yourself. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. We said that one of the greatest Yogi's in history. Yogi Berra. Hey, I'll take truth whenever I can get it. So this is Yogi Berra, right. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect makes perfect, perfect. Practice makes perfect doesn't mean your practice has to be puritanical and perfect and like, Oh, Jesus, you know, no, it doesn't mean that. It means you have to know what you're doing, what it means to accomplish this practice. And don't kid yourself. It's like Fineman, the great Nobel physicist said, We are the easiest people to fool because we're always fooling ourselves. And so therefore, Tim, that's why it's helpful to have a community a teacher, people that can act as a hall of Miller mirrors and help you stay on track because if you don't have that type of feedback, most everybody's going to get lost, right. Okay, is there an update on the preparing to die course? It's died. Just kidding. No, it's on hold Barbara because of my books that I tell you the story. So I got a two book contract, which is rare these days. And the real kicker and it was like a total surprise is the book that I pitched is the first book which is completely done. That one is ready to go. The second book, I thought I had 18 months to finish. They said no, no, we want the second book first. And I'm going are you kidding me? And so I had to drop everything to finish the book. I had 18 months I thought I had 18 months to finish track to finish it in three. So do you think I'm a little busy? So because of that Barbara? Virtually everything except for my committed programs is put on hold. It's in a bottle. Oh, yes. Very Yes. Discovering terrorists puroland talk by Heidi. She's doing that link this weekend. Right. Thanks for bringing that up. So check her out. Just this morning in a conversation. We're gonna bring her on board. Thank you. Barry is the best he always finds this stuff. She's awesome. You'll see are these live only no ability to rewatch these events meaning doc, these are recorded. So you can watch this stuff again. It'll definitely put you to sleep. I will record these things. You watch them again and again. It's a fantastic insomnia. Cure. Watch. I will definitely put you to sleep. So watch it again. In a little goofy when I work all morning and come to the so here we go. Oh, that's it. Excellent. Hey, everybody. Any other final questions? Before I take my dog for a beautiful walk in this wonderful weather? Are we good for today? These questions really are so appreciate these questions. They're just solid, so to speak. So if there's nothing else comes up what we'll do is what do we have next? I think Joe's up on Monday. Like I mentioned, the ebony Alexander interview will be released. We've got the usual stuff book study group bah, bah, bah, all the other stuff is listed and posted. So unless there's something else is just coming in, nope. We got one more hand up let me go Justin last. Nasir shot here and then we'll close it after Marianne. Perfect.
Okay, well, I don't want to be a time hog but since nobody else raise their hand. I had a really I had a really cool lucid dream last night that I wanted to share and I I hadn't had a lucid dream about three or four months so so excited. Go and I I have a chronic illness and some health problems. So for about the last six weeks, I've been setting this intention every night to meet up with the Medicine Buddha.
Oh no, it's my life. And
then early this morning, I feel like I'm I'm dreaming. I'm in the lucid dream. I'm in the lucid dream. I jumped through the ceiling and I jumped through the floor. Yes, got it. Okay, so I started calling in the medicine, Buddha medicine, Buddha medicine. I was looking for find him and then my legs started turning blue. Like oh,
that's the Medicine Buddha. You know that right?
Yeah. So my legs
turning into the medicine,
Medicine Buddha, but I didn't realize it. I was looking for the Buddha outside myself.
That's beautiful. That's fantastic. You mean well how beautiful is that? The Medicine Buddha is blue. Yeah. Blue because you're not attorney into the medicine but uh, you are the Medicine Buddha. And so there was an act of recognition there. And so I mean, that's fantastic. To learn more about this and to cultivate it even further, there is a Medicine Buddha sutra level sadhana. In other words, anybody can do this. Trungpa Rinpoche has written a really beautiful book on this. I can't remember the name of it. It could literally be the Medicine Buddha. It's not my my library on the corner. He talks about this stuff quite a bit and he teaches and I've done these practices with him. So if you want to explore this even further, that look at look at his work around this because there's actually a practice that you can do and that will allow you to grease the skids even further for not just meeting the Medicine Buddha but becoming the medicine, Buddha and then all the wonderful benefits of that including some you know physical health so you might want to look at his work and consider doing that particular sada that practice. Why really clued click into that.
That sounds just great. Well, thanks for listening.
Yeah, no, I love it. I love hearing these stories. And this is this is the great thing about this community is this is a completely legitimate place because there's no braggadocio going on, there's no self aggrandizing going on. It's just a community of like minded people where we can share these stories realize you're not the only loony bin. There's 50 Other loony bins here. And we really support each other in terms of sharing these things that I get personally inspired about them, I learn and I think it's just a wonderful way to stay, you know, supportive and connected on this kind of deeper level. So thank you everybody. Nice to check in always so great to see everybody to see all my friends and enemies. And so you know where to find me, I will see you around the block. Otherwise, all the best to everybody. Enjoy this incredible, beautiful spring and again, let's not forget about what's happening in Russia and Ukraine. We're not here it's very easy to slip into spiritual bypassing. Just entertaining ourselves with material that basically skirts these really, really painful things. And so, as difficult as this stuff is to watch, we have to bear witness to it. Think about the people that are living it. It's hard for us to watch it, think about them. And so to whatever extent after every events, gathering the merit, sending it out to all beings, including life forms that we know as animals, and then in particular to the people and especially married people in Ukraine. I mean, unbelievable. just astounding what's happening there. So all our love to all of them all my love to all of you. See you in the dream world or beyond everybody. Bye bye
