Lauren Windass is a renowned Registered nutritionist naturopath, author of chronic fatigue syndrome, your route to recovery and co founder of our co founder of our Deray holistic wellbeing company specialising in supporting those with CFS me and Lauren COVID. I'm going to say that one more time from begin
Lauren Windass is a renowned Registered nutritionist, naturopath, author of chronic fatigue syndrome, your route to recovery, and co founder of our Deray a holistic well being company, specialising in supporting those with CFS me along COVID Welcome, Lauren.
Thank you so much for having me, dude.
Well, it's such a pleasure because, you know, I was just saying to you before we we hit record here, it is really quite difficult to find a nutritionist who specialises in in people who have COVID, long COVID And CFS. And I think many people struggle to get specific advice and guidance when they're, ah, I'm getting WhatsApp. But why? Why am I getting WhatsApp? away? Okay. Oh my god. Okay. Oh, you're so welcome. You're so annoying. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Lauren for for coming. Because, I mean, it's really quite difficult for people who have CFS and long COVID to actually bind specific nutritional advice and, and guidance I have found, and I think that you, yourself have have struggled with that. Am I right?
Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, there is so much information online. And, you know, I know a lot of clients that have come to me in the past, you know, they've explained how, you know, they are just so confused, I think there's a lot of information out there, but kind of people struggling to kind of put the pieces together of kind of what's going on for them. And you know, it is it's very, it's very much a minefield, and there isn't a lot of, there aren't a lot of nutritionists really dealing in this space. So there are not a lot of people specialising in supporting those who have chronic fatigue syndrome long COVID, or any kind of post viral conditions. Hmm.
And I wanted to start actually, by by focusing in on the NHS guidelines, because I guess that that is where a lot of people start when they're trying to get basic advice. And from reading that myself, there's a focus on just following general healthy eating advice, which they then link you to, what do you think of of that approach? And and how do you think these guidelines could be improved?
Well, I suppose the first thing to say is that, you know, everybody is by you individual. And obviously, when we look at these guidelines, these are meant for kind of general public consumption for you know, every single individual but not actually looking into kind of unique nutritional meet needs based on a specific condition or what is going on with somebody. And but I'm a firm believer in this concept of bio individuality, which essentially means that you know, for me, and when I work with clients, there is no one diet for each person CFS I you know, I'd say and just after working with clients, it is entirely unique to each person that sat in front of me, it means that we all have unique nutritional requirements based on our genetic requirements, our hormonal makeup, our nutritional, whether we have deficiencies, for example, our immune tolerance as well and and of course, our relationship with food. But just kind of generally speaking, looking at the I looked at kind of the eat well guide from the NHS, and it places quite a large focus on carbohydrates, and then more of a modest focus on protein. Now, when I'm working with clients, one of the kind of number one staples that I love to work on with us any CFS clients is blood sugar. I'd say that's kind of one of the key foundations here of health. And that's about five Finding a stability and a foundation, which obviously impacts our energy levels day to day. And so in terms of those eat well guides are what I would essentially kind of look to switch is almost kind of making a modest focus on those complex carbohydrates and more of a key focus on protein rich foods, which as we know, can really help to stabilise our blood sugar, and avoid these kind of peaks and troughs on this blood sugar roller coaster. And they also include things like fruits and vegetables, which is almost half of your plate. And although that being said, I would like to see more of a focus on just generally vegetables and, and a modest amount of fruit due to the obviously the fructose content. So you know, for me, I like to say to clients, you're trying to incorporate maybe two portions of fruit a day is the kind of maximum it's about 80 grand portions each, rather than kind of overdoing it on fruit, kind of, because sometimes people think, Oh, if I can try and eat, say five a day, but people eat, say, four, four varieties of fruit, maybe one vegetable, and you know, the best kind of focus is to try and get your fibre intake through the vegetables first. And obviously things like those complex carbohydrates, but really kind of when it comes to building your plate, and the kind of one of the key focuses that I like to kind of recommend clients and this actually can be applied to most CFS clients. And in general is to think about your play as, say, one or two palm sized servings of lean protein. This is obviously if you include animal products in your diet. So an example would be say, a fillets of salmon, or say a filleted chicken breast which you've cooked. And then you compare that with with basically like a think about a fistful of complex carbohydrates. So that's anything from like your starchy veg, like things like sweet potato, or butternut squash, to opting for whole grains, like brown rice, for instance, pulses and lentils, things like chickpeas, for example. And then, really, as we were talking about vegetables earlier, you know, think about two fistfuls of your plates, which is essentially half of your plate of non starchy vegetables. And you know, if you think of as as much colour as possible, and that's kind of what you really want to like focus on and, and the more of these different varieties of colour that we can get into the diet, we basically get more of a wealth of different types of fibres. So we know that fibre fibre is essentially it's actually a type of carbohydrate, but it passes through our digestive system entirely unchanged. So we don't have the enzyme faculty is to break down fibre, but our gut bacteria and our beneficial bacteria within our gut actually has the ability to digest that fibre. And as a result can produce these anti inflammatory byproducts called short chain fatty acids, which have essentially like a nurturing effect on our gut lining. And this can help to modulate inflammation and reduce these inflammatory processes, which can potentially be driving CFS symptoms or long COVID symptoms. So that's why we want to kind of think variety, because you're getting more different types of fibres there in those beds, but also the colours as well represent that too. And then when it comes to facts, you want to be thinking about kind of one to two thumb sized servings of these healthy fats. So that could also be represented by a tablespoon, one or two tablespoons. And you want to be thinking of the unsaturated fat, so things like extra virgin olive oil, avocados, coconut and coconut products, and nuts and seeds, for example, all of these types of things, you know, to help give you basically your brain what it needs to function optimally, and also to help us absorb those fat soluble nutrients such as vitamin A, D, E, and K. But really, you know, obviously, if you're, say, plant based, or if you're vegetarian, switching those kinds of lean proteins, and as I mentioned earlier, for having half of your plate full of vegetarian or vegan proteins, which might be steak, eggs, or a modest amount of dairy if you're vegetarian, or you know, looking for those kinds of pulses, and those grains and those like lagoons, and things like that, to help kind of give that protein if you're a vegan. So really, it's about thinking about variety is thinking about diversity, but trying to go to essentially as much of a whole foods diet as possible, whilst looking to avoid those ultra processed those high sugar, energy dense foods that are just going to be fanning the flames of chronic inflammation. And obviously, if we're dealing with anything chronic and a chronic illness, illness or you know, any kind of chronic disease, we really want to be reducing that inflammatory burden, and just focusing on as much whole foods as possible.
Yeah, great. That's such a great summary. A, I guess what, what was coming through my mind? And I'm really curious about your experience, both both personally but also professionally. Is that sounds like it's, it's, it sounds like a lot of preparation that needs to go into cooking Whole Foods from scratch, which is kind of the diet that you, your body really needs. And I'm guessing with in somebody who's got really low energy that may seem really daunting and feel impossible. Yeah, how I mean, how what strategies? Can you would you recommend? Because obviously people go for ultra processed food because it's convenient. Yeah, it's quick. And it's and it's, it's really low, really low energy to produce. But as you say, it's it then sort of sets off this vicious cycle of, of chronic inflammation. And, and we obviously need and want a Whole Foods balanced diet full of the rainbow. But how do you marry that? How do you how do you recommend? Or how do your patients find preparing these meals, so that they can still receive the goodness, but not exhaust themselves? In the process?
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good question. And obviously, if you are, you know, fighting with fatigue, it's easy, easy for me to say, you know, you've got to do this, you've got to go entirely, you know, Whole Foods, no Ultra processed foods. And by no means am I being prescriptive here. And you know, when I talk about those balance plates, and I'm not saying to clients, you've got to do this every single day, every meal, and you've got to go cold turkey overnight. Because that's just not realistic, you know, especially if somebody's living on their own, and they have to prepare these meals themselves, it's going to be a really, you know, a real challenge to achieve. And so really, the focus is, is on starting small is is essentially looking at the nutritional makeup of you know, your unique diet, where you're at how many processed foods are you consuming? How many meals are you cooking from scratch, are you able to cook at all, how debilitating is your fatigue, and that's kind of where this all kind of focuses on is kind of looking at each individual making those tailored strategies to them, some people have the benefit of having a significant other, or a helper or a carer who can really help with preparing healthy meals. And in a lot of cases, I've had clients you know, who have had really supportive, you know, partners or friends, whoever they're living with, who can really take a step up in terms of helping to prepare these foods and they go on, it's quite often that I see people go on the journey together. And I know, that was certainly the case, in my household when I was unwell is, you know, my mom or my sister very much kind of took a leap as well and decided that we'd all eat the same way. And we'd all you know, make a real effort. And as a result, it was beneficial for everyone's health. So, you know, there's a lot of benefits in that. And but really, you know, if you are living on your own if you're challenged, and I'd say the best start is to kind of consider batch cooking. And so you know, focusing on those days where say maybe your energy is a little bit higher on those days, and this kind of comes into play with pacing, which is an energy management strategy I work on with clients is, you know, kind of managing and rationing their energy envelope. But looking at the days where they obviously have more energy capacity, and where they can set aside some time you know, I always say to people that are you know, those clients that are able to work maybe like a Sunday afternoon, just to get ahead on some meal preparation, maybe it's you make a batch of something, you can put things in a tupperware box or like freeze things, you know, for a rainy day. So you've always got something there. But things like you know, just kind of making easy breakfasts like overnight oats for example. It's literally just kind of, you know, putting some oats into a bowl, adding some milk or a plant based milk, adding in your berries, sprinkling on some nuts and seeds. And you can make a big batch of that for maybe three breakfasts, obviously trying to kind of rotate you're kind of things that you're adding to it, whether it's your fruits or your nuts, for example to get that variety in. But just thinking about ways that you can plan ahead and batch cook for those times when energy is like flagging. But just using your time wisely to make food and make eating a priority. And certainly if you know your energy is really low, just avoiding those kinds of low hanging fruits, those old To process high sugar foods, if you're snacking on chocolates, cakes and biscuits, just focus on those three meals that you're eating a day. And it's not about being perfect or prescriptive. It's just starting to think about the nutritional makeup of your plate. And you know, are you getting those macronutrients in that protein, that fat and those those complex carbohydrates, and just starting to kind of develop a nutritional awareness? I think that's the kind of starting point.
Yeah, that makes so much that makes so much sense. And I guess like these are having something to work towards knowing what you're working towards, is really helpful. Yeah. Now, you mentioned like an emphasis on lower carb diets. And I've seen actually, some, some nutritionists and naturopathic doctors really support no carb diets. So really going paleo or ketogenic diets for their patients who have got chronic fatigue. And I've just been to a conference, the IPM conference, the integrative and precise medical conferences last week. And there was quite an emphasis, in some cases, not necessarily just for chronic fatigue, but for other chronic illnesses, that some doctors are really advising to go on these diets, which I found quite surprising, actually. And I'm really curious as to what your, what your position is on those for those with chronic fatigue.
Yeah, so it's, I think, ultimately, you know, with these types of diets, especially things like ketogenic, you know, it's a spectrum. And not everybody needs to go to these lengths. And as they say, everybody's different. And I always say, like, I'm not an advocate of like this diet, or that diet, per se, I'm not somebody that's follow this, and you'll get well, you know, you've got to do this approach, because as I say, we all have unique needs, whether it's physical or also mental. And you know, if you think about the ketogenic diet, it's heavily restrictive. You know, it's very difficult to maintain a social life. You know, that's a lot of my clients are always saying to me, and I, people feel restricted anyway, with their diet when they're on a recovery diet for CFS. And there's a lot of things that you know, especially if they're dealing with like intolerances and sensitivities, that you know, they feel restricted anyways, to kind of add another layer of restriction just feels like that much more weight on their system. And but, you know, I've had some clients do say, for example, ketogenic diets, they more so that they've come to me having followed them, and but again, you know, some people benefit from that kind of blood sugar perspective. And, and I can talk to you in a bit about how important I feel blood sugar is and you know, regulating your blood sugar. And in terms of dealing with CFS, but by no means is it a one size fits all. And you know, some people might follow these diets for a certain stage in the game, maybe if they're more in those kind of severe stages of CFS that crashed stage when they first become unwell. And but you know, from a long term perspective, I'm a big advocate of trying to get people towards a more inclusive, embraces diet that, you know, allows for more liberation. And, as I say, different parts of the journey, there might be different requirements. But I hope that answers your question. But as they say, with keto, you know, it can help some people in the sense of blood sugar management, and does it help us in terms of the fact that, you know, we, it can be kind of stave off, I've got microbes if we're not including a lot of diversity or variety in there, potentially. So there's that to consider. But there's also those mental aspects around the diet, that being that it is heavily restrictive, and it can negatively impact people's relationship with food. And I've had a lot of clients come to me, you know, with CFS who've done a variety of you know, food manoeuvres over the years, and, and as a result, their relationship with food has been heavily damaged. So I'm always kind of thinking of these other things in the background as much as the physical side too.
Hmm. Yeah, that's, that's really so important. That's so important to consider to consider as well. And I'm, I'm really curious, can you tell? Can you talk to me more around the importance that you feel sugar control is for people with chronic fatigue? Because I'm guessing you're talking? Excuse me, I'm guessing you're talking. You know, you're not talking about people who have got comorbid diabetes here, and you're talking about actually people who Um, don't have diabetes who can control who's whose sugar control systems are intact? Why is it then so important to have a focus on blood sugar?
So without blood sugar, you know, it's something that obviously it can actually affect every single person in the world. You know, it's not, you know, sometimes people think, Oh, it's just if you're diabetic, whether type one or type two that you know, blood sugar is something to be considering. But actually, we know how much our blood sugar can influence our risk of various different chronic diseases. But specifically in CFS, it's important to consider how blood sugar and what we're eating and how we're eating, and how that actually impacts our energy. And so I always say to clients, look at how your energy changes around meals. So that's a good question to ask yourself, you know, does your fatigue feel better after eating? Or does it feel worse, so we want to what we want to achieve is no change in energy around a meal. So if there is an energy increase after a meal, then it might be the case that that person is more hypoglycemic, some more on kind of the low blood sugar spectrum. But if somebody's energy drops after a meal, then they might be more hypoglycemic. So somebody that's prone to kind of low blood sugar would need to eat more frequently. So considering maybe three meals a day at a minimum, and then potentially balanced snacks, you know, things that are rich in protein fibre healthy fats, for example, to help kind of slowly releases of sugars into the blood. And then, and then Yeah, so basically kind of focusing on that, that regulation there. So the consistency, and then if somebody has high blood sugar, it would be you know, essentially the opposite. So if blood sugars lingering around, and it's not necessarily going anywhere for a period of time, then you want to consider maybe sticking to around two, maybe three meals a day, but be conscious of the snacking. So kind of just knowing your your pattern and how your energy is affected based on you know, how you feel after eating, do you feel better? Do you feel worse, it's just a good way to kind of help to understand your personalised blood sugar levels. I mean, some people can, you know, get really into it by looking at their blood sugar monitorings, you know, when you're looking at your personalised reaction to foods, but really, this helps us to kind of keep our hormone systems in balance. And things like cortisol as well. We know cortisol is largely affected calf cortisol being our body's major stress hormone. And that's usually affected in CFS. And so you know, it's the hormone that cells essentially pulls out stored glucose from, from storage, whether in our muscles, for example, and it helps to put it into circulation. So, you know, even if we're highly stressed, and we know that the FS is a very stress sensitive condition, especially where people are predominantly firing this fight or flight state, it means that sugar is going to be kept in the bloodstream for longer. So if you're somebody that has high blood sugar, for example, then stress management is a kind of key strategy here, as well as obviously, what you're eating and how consistently you're eating as well. So but just generally speaking, you know, it's thinking about those balanced plates, eating more protein with each meal, that's kind of your number one focus on things like fibre as well, and those healthy fats but also avoiding those refined sugar products, because they're going to cause like this one BAM effect on our energy, which is going to impact things like fatigue, brain fog, headaches, you know, all the spectrum of different symptoms we see in CFS, and it's starting to think about you know, how that blood sugar is tightly connected to those symptoms.
And why do you have an understanding about why keeping blood sugar control is so important. So I'm hearing that like it's important in with with regards to symptom management. Are there any other reasons why focusing on blood sugar control might also help in the recovery of CFS? Is there is there any clarity on that?
Well, I think it's mostly from a hormonal balance perspective. But also obviously, if we're consistently firing our blood sugar, and if we're kind of peaking our blood sugar consistently throughout the day, that's a process that can encourage oxidative stress, inflammation, this can impact the ability of our mitochondria to produce energy, which these are little kind of tiny energy factories within our body cells. So from kind of a cellular health perspective, but also from a hormonal perspective. It's about helping to maintain balance, but to avoid any kind of inflammatory processes. And we know that obviously keeping that blood sugar stable is kind of one of the key ways to kind of manage, as I say, inflammation, hormonal balance, all of these different things and all of these facets are essentially dysregulated. And CFS is a condition obviously, that affects our various systems from our neuro endocrine to our immune, nervous system, etc. And so what we want to do is kind of keep these systems as tightly regulated as we can. And obviously, that's one of the key kind of modulators that we can control is blood sugar, and we can really impact that through what we're eating.
Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing, I think, I think patients who are struggling with conditions such as these need to know where to focus their attention in what they can control, so that they can they because the sense of control even is is important. And then also being being able to enact some sort of agent, you know, of change in in the way that they are feeling, the way their body is feeling is that energy can be directed to getting them well, because there's so much that we can't control. But if there are areas such as nutrition that may move the needle, I think it's really important that patients are aware of that so that they can really take that on board as much or as little as they want. But the information needs to be there on how they can optimise it.
Yeah. 100%.
And you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, some people are going to have nutritional deficiencies. And this is a particular problem in those with CFS, because as you've mentioned, a lot of them, a lot of patients. Try restricting. They also can be quite hypersensitive to many foodstuffs, and sensations and smells, which can make deficiencies a lot more likely. And then you also touched on multiple, you know, sensitivities, to foods, allergies to foods, which can real really hinder getting this balanced approach. How do you how do you deal with people who present in this way, but it's a real problem within this community?
Yeah, it is. And, you know, I think this is why nutrition is such a key facet in CFS recovery is because people are met with all of these strange symptoms, but they're reacting also to foods as well. So we do see food reactions heavily in chronic fatigue syndrome. And, and so it's important, I always kind of highlight the difference between kind of the different food reactions, because there's always a lot of confusion. And so essentially, we have like, obviously, the standard kind of classic food allergies, these are these kind of IGE for this kind of antibody in our immune system. These are kind of the severe reactions, we get to foods, things like peanuts, for example, you know, like those classic example of somebody being on a plane and not being able to be anywhere in contact with a peanuts. And these symptoms, you know, can be severely life threatening things like anaphylaxis, for example. And then that stems all the way through to things like food sensitivities and food intolerances. And these are, I guess, we could say less severe and in the sense of being life threatening, but they are still very, very bothersome and very debilitating for a lot of people. So food intolerances are essentially when the body tends to like a particular enzyme to digest the food. So for example, lactase, which is the enzyme to digest lactose, the sugar in dairy and milk. And or it could be the case that maybe, you know, somebody's got is struggling to break something down properly, or when the gut bacteria start to ferment of food. And which is kind of an example in the case of FODMAPs, which are the fermentable sugars in various fruits and vegetables and whole grains and pulses. That essentially when I've got bacteria tends to have a field day with these types of foods, that kind of classic food intolerance, a food sensitivity slightly different. It's essentially an immune mediated reaction to a food that can cause widespread symptoms. So we call these extra intestinal symptoms. And these can occur not just within the digestive tract, but also, you know, widespread throughout the body and symptoms here, you know, are the kind of classic things that you know very much mirror CFS, so fatigue, brain fog, headaches, joint pain, skin rashes, and there's a whole plethora of other symptoms on top of that, and this is kind of where we have this silent inflammation going. And it's basically where the immune system has lost tolerance to a certain food protein. And this can be linked with autoimmune symptoms as well. And one example is non celiac gluten sensitivity here and And I commonly see a lot of. So I guess the most common kind of food reactions that I tend to see is gluten. This is in CFS, gluten, dairy and FODMAPs. Also histamine as well. So histamine, being something obviously, that our immune system produces, and inflammatory reactions, but we also get histamine in certain foods like tomatoes, dried fruit, fermented foods, for example. And sometimes we can have an issue, basically breaking down that histamine, we have an inability to kind of metabolise it, so we got histamine buildup, and that can relate to symptoms that are in CFS, particularly the allergy symptoms, and problems with our mast cells, which are immune cells, where we kind of get these allergy symptoms, and also sulphur intolerance as well. So sulphur being a mineral in the diet, which is important, but sometimes people struggle to maintain balance. And so just to kind of walk back, obviously, I've just waffled on a little bit there. But we as I say, we we tend to kind of see all of this kind of boatload of different intolerances, it can be different for each person. But one of the key kind of drivers of food sensitivities is this leaky gut phenomenon. And our gut is essentially our interface with our immune system. And we know that 70% of our immune system is in the gut. And so what can happen is, is that when these this gut become older gut membranes, and the gut lining becomes permeable, we can get these food proteins that kind of seep out and then can as a result cause an inflammatory cascade. And gluten can be one of the kind of key culprits of this leaky gut barrier. And as a result, this can lead to a range of food sensitivities, because it's quite often that we don't just see one food sensitivity, but we see maybe, you know, two or three kind of going on. So you know, we have to work on the gut there. And that's why kind of key premise of, you know, when I'm working with clients is to kind of, you know, take out kind of any inflammatory foods, but replace with these nutrient dense foods, but things that are going to really help to repair and, you know, help to support that gut lining. And that can also as a result help to reduce the likelihood of food sensitivities. But when it comes to isolating those food sensitivities, or food reactions, and intolerances is really working on a three stage approach. So I always ask clients to do a three week food and symptom diary. So they essentially record and track everything that they're eating from a three week period. And then if they spot any specific trigger foods that they potentially relate to their symptoms, then I'd ask them to eliminate those for a period of six weeks minimum. And if there isn't any improvement, then you could give it a few more weeks just to kind of double check that you've fully removed that trigger food, let's say it's maybe gluten and they maybe realised that they're, you know, getting some form of gluten through using a toaster or sharing a toaster with somebody in their household. Or it might be the case that they're not really actually reacting to that food after all. And so just kind of checking to see that, you know, if you've removed a potential trigger food, and then once symptoms are at bay, and it's all about kind of reintroducing those foods, but doing so one at a time. So if you've removed and eliminated, let's say three foods, and you only basically introduce one at a time. So you wait three days for each new food that's been introduced, to help to see if there's a reaction, whether it's an immediate or delayed reaction to that food, and then you can, you know, once basically help to expand your diet out there after, you know, if you're still reacting to a food, then you can eliminate that, you know, for a period of three to six months and then reassess. But the overall goal is trying to kind of get more of a an embrace of Inclusive Diet. But sometimes when we're dealing with these food reactions, it's just about giving, you know the time for one your digestive system, but also to your immune system, a little bit of time to reset, rebalance and restore until you then fine, reintroduce those just to see how your tolerance profiles change and how your symptoms are faring as well once you introduce those foods,
and I guess it's also in the meantime, by eating the suggested diet, you're switching over to a more whole food rainbow kind of approach. You are as you as you mentioned before really feeding the microbiome. Yeah, and building up you know, your the the mucin layer that is really required to fix that leaky gut leaky permeability of the gut, and therefore tolerance to these. What were used to be trigger foods may in fact, really improve move because the underlying gut lining has been improved, I was gonna say healed, but I mean, you know, has been improved, you know, it has it has it has restored, as you mentioned.
Exactly. And you know, we all kind of have some degree of this kind of gut leakiness, this intestinal permeability, but the nature of this kind of opening and closing of These tight junctions and allowing food particles or, you know, proteins or toxins kind of seep out and cause this inflammatory cascade is lessening, and that's what we want to aim for. And that's why, you know, if we kind of, as you say, the benefit of doing this approach is you do go to this whole foods diet as much as you can, and you're giving your, your gut, you're giving your immune system, that breathing room to then just help to, to self regulate. And, as I said, we will have a degree of this kind of leaky gut, but it's just helping to, basically, you know, lessen that, that inflammatory cascade and give it that breathing room just to restore itself. And, you know, repair. And that's ultimately what we want. And that's kind of one of the key approaches, to me when I'm working with clients is, is thinking about these the boatload of these food reactions, but then trying to get the body to a place where tolerance can be restored, they are able to then go, oh, I can go out to this restaurant, and I can eat this food. And you're not restricted forever, because the question I'm always asked is, Will I have to eat this way forever. And you know, people are miserable on these recovery diets. And, you know, yes, they are necessary. And sometimes it can be very, very important for a degree of time. But the end goal is to get the body to a place where it can handle things, it can tolerate things. And that's proof positive that the body is restoring, repairing and rebalancing.
Because ultimately, the body is a regenerative is a is set to is set to heal itself. And sometimes we just need to pay attention to what it needs in order to position it to be able to do that. And I guess that's what these recovery diets are really just allowing you to focus on, so that your body is able to heal from whatever injury it has received. So, you know, ultimately, that's it sort of putting our trust and faith in our bodies, which I can really imagine has been challenged when someone's gone through such debilitating diagnosis, and long, long recovery process, you know, with with chronic fatigue, I think, I imagine a lot of trust has been lost with someone and their bodies in in in that whole journey.
Yeah, definitely. And it always, you know, for a lot of clients, they always feel like it's one step forward, two steps back. One of the kind of key things I tried to tell clients is, is just to inspire yourself forwards, but always measure yourself backwards. So always thinking like, you know, rather than thinking I've got, I've got ages and ages to go until I'm recovered, I'm not there yet, instead of thinking that think actually look how far I've come. And if you can build the evidence that recovery is possible. And you believe that the improvements are to be made that improvements have been made. And you know, you've just got to look back. You may be where you were six months ago. And sometimes people fail to see because people think, Well, I'm not better, I'm not 100%. And we get so fixated on this 100% idea of health. And and sometimes it's a perfectionist mindset. And I think when you're dealing with anything chronic, we become heavily filtered on our body and our symptoms. So we start to filter through everything. And we think you maybe wake up one morning with a headache or you know, a minor niggle and you think of okay, like the CFS it's back or, you know, you start to kind of snowball or edit out all the positives in your day. And so it's just about thinking, actually, I'm not going to negate the progress I've made, because actually that progress, even if it might seem minut, it's actually a positive step in the right direction. And that is evidence that you can take to say I can still move the needle, I can still keep moving forwards, even if it might feel laborious, even if it might feel slow. But really focusing on that. And I think that's really, really important to just as I say keep moving forward, always measure yourself backwards and be grateful for the lessons learned. You know, I always think when you're dealing with something like this, you learn a lot of valuable lessons in health management, how to prevent other chronic diseases from developing, let's say, type two diabetes, for example. You know, we learn all the principles of healthy living, and these are key facets we can use and empower ourselves forward empower our families and our friends. And, you know, there are a lot of valuable lessons learned amidst the struggle. And I'm not saying there isn't struggle because there is but But yeah, there are a lot of lessons there that are valuable.
And I can just Imagine, you know, it must be so supportive for someone to come and get this sort of advice from someone who's lived through it themselves. So I can imagine, you know, being able to support those who you can see part of yourself in would be very rewarding, but it would be, it would be really important for, for the patients to come to you, and really get a sense that you know exactly where they are. And you must be a big inspiration to many of them to see how far you've come yourself.
Well, but, ya know, it's, it's nice to know, like, even for myself, like to speak to clients, and to be able to kind of relate to them, and vice versa, obviously, they can relate to the fact that I've gone through it. And it's a real, like, rewarding thing. And but yeah, I think, you know, I sometimes struggle, I hesitate to always compare and say, like, I did this, you know, this is what you should do. But yes, I have walked in their shoes, but also it's about, as I say, individualization their case, will be entirely different to mine. And but at the same time, in a lot of the principles kind of mirror the same, you know, things, things in terms of like looking at those balance plates, how can we manage their blood sugar? How are they feeling after eating, and working on those food sensitivities? And the boatload of that, but with the overall goal being to get back to something with more balanced? Because as I said, the question I'm always asked is, you know, can I go back to eating a normal diet, and it's like, me, I used to be very heavily restricted my diet, and you know, now, I don't label my diet as such. So that's like, you know, I suppose that's an evidence in itself, really. And it's lovely that I'm able to tell clients that So,
hmm. And you've just opened your practice AR Dre, which really, is designed to support those with CFS and me. And now long COVID Can you share with, with our, with my listeners, you know, how, what what that would look like? And, and tell us a little bit about the book you've written, chronic fatigue syndrome, your route to recovery?
Oh, so So artery, artery is a Latin translation of the word glow. So it's kind of our interpretation of how you feel when you're healthy and happy you very much glow from the inside out. And so yeah, I work with clients in my clinical practice. So we have different packages on offer. And basically, they're all kind of essentially there to support those that are going through CFS me long COVID. And basically, what we do is, is I basically work on a case by case basis, as we've mentioned earlier, we cover the nutritional strategies. We cover that person's unique case in depth, but we also cover the lifestyle strategies as well. So we look at and very much pacing and managing that post exertional malaise, which is essentially kind of one of the key fundamental symptoms in CFS, that basically where you maybe exert your energy threshold, and you're met with exacerbations in your fatigue and your other symptoms. So we really work to kind of manage your energy envelope to get to a point where your energy reserves increase as recovery and restoration start to happen. We work on stress management, we will work on the mindset as well and how we fundamentally know that the mind and body are hugely connected in CFS as we know it's a it's a physical condition, but it's a physiological condition. So if we can influence our thoughts for the better to help get your mind set on track, and we can really help to alleviate the stress response, which can help to alleviate those symptoms from, you know, waxing and waning all the time. And just to help get your recovery moving forwards. We also do things like functional testing as well. And so you know, whether that's hormonal profiling, looking at adrenal stress tests by roid, microbiome, genetics, nutritional status, toxic insults, etc, anything that might be kind of driving the boat load of dysregulation, so we can kind of adopt a root cause approach to you, and then personalise a tailored nutritional and supplement approach as well. So we very much kind of cover all of the different pillars of health. We talked about sleep environment, detoxification, and how you know, as you say, people can really personalise their journey to them and where they're at and what their unique needs are. And then yeah, so my book very much contextualise it I guess it's split into three parts really. So the first part is a bit about my journey. So how I got into kind of doing what I do now, and my own journey with CFS, back when I was at university, and the approaches that I tried to get myself well, the second part, contextualise is the science and the background of what we know so far with chronic fatigue syndrome. So Some of the evidence and the complexities and how it affects the different systems, but I've tried to break it down into very easy to understand sound bites for people, you know, especially those that are dealing with fatigue. And then the third part is very much kind of your route to recovery. As they say, I'm not somebody that has like a strict panacea of, you know, this is my approach. And you, you follow this way, you'll get what get well as though it's like a recipe. And as I say, everybody's journey is entirely unique. And it's very much a healing journey. And you'll learn all different things along the way. But you know, based on the pillars of functional medicine, and lifestyle, and nutrition, it's all about kind of delving in deep to those pillars of nutrition, lifestyle and mindset. And to really personalise your way forwards, we talk all about a little bit about what we've talked about today, dude, you know, with the nutritional strategies, how you can you know, learn about gut health, how you can learn about stress management approaches, why is the mind and body connection so important to understand? And how can you think about, you know, your beliefs around recovery, and your lifestyle and your environment, pacing, and how you approach exercise with CFS, and it's really kind of a, I guess, a manual, but people can personalise to their own journey. So you use it as a bit of a toolkit to help you maximise your way forward.
Hmm. It sounds it sounds so holistic, you know? I thought you were good. Oh, my God. Well, you know?
Yeah, it's just such a holistic it is such a holistic approach, Lauren, really acknowledging the effect are mind, body, and soul all play a role and work together. And it was really plays out in CFS. And so focusing on all of these, and acknowledging all of these is really the key to recovery.
Yeah, 100%. And, you know, like, as you say, it is very holistic. And I've tried to in section two, I've tried to marry up as much as you know, the evidence that we have so far, scientifically of, you know, what causes CF? And obviously, we don't have like the full answer to that. We know certain elements of that answer. And but not all of it, as they say. So it's trying to marry I guess, the evidence with anecdote because I feel like healing is as much an art as it is a science. And when you're dealing with anything chronic like this, where we don't have all the answers, I think sometimes we have to suspend our disbelief slightly. And, and, you know, that's where the, the naturopathic approach comes in, where we have to kind of, and as I say, that's that personalised element is that everybody is different. So it's hard to kind of say, Oh, we can take these studies and, you know, look at cohorts of people, and this is the approach that works. Because actually, you know, if we look at CFS as an umbrella, there are different, you know, I guess, different needles in the haystack for different people, and potentially what might be kind of their underlying driver going on. And that's where we use the functional testing to help kind of pinpoint those things. And but as I say, I'd say it's a combination of anecdote and evidence in there. And in terms of kind of clinical experience, should I say, and that healing journey? Hmm.
Well, I just want to say thank you, to, to you for sharing, not only with us on the podcast today, but in more general terms through the writing of your books through the setting up of your practice, because I think it's a very powerful combination to have the professional expertise that you have, but also the personal experience of having and recovering from a chronic illness such as this that really will help so many people. So really want to thank you for that.
Oh, well, thank you so much for having me really appreciate you having me on.
And where can people find you Lauren?
So you can find me hanging out on Instagram. So my handle is Lauren Windus nutritionist or our company obviously, is our Teresa that spelled AR D E Ra. Or on ardour, a.com or Lauren windus.com.
Great, and I'll put all of those in today's show notes. And just a big thank you again, and I'll speak to you hopefully soon.
