De-Biasing the Workplace + Building Equitable Workplaces - Olanike Ayomide-Mensah

9:29PM Aug 11, 2022

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Olanike Ayomide-Mensah

Keywords:

people

nonprofits

workplace

dei

community

bias

conversation

equity

mosaic

moved

story

happening

hiring process

issues

grew

raised

talk

philanthropy

hiring

organization

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Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started.

Becky, what's happening?

I'll tell you what guys buckle up, because this is not going to be your grandmother's dei conversation, we are going deep into a really evolved conversation about how to build equity, diversity, inclusion belonging into your workplace. And I think we have found a massive expert that we're going to learn so much from so it is our great pleasure to introduce Allah Nikkei on Mensa, and she is the founder and CEO of Mosaic consulting. And today we're gonna be talking about what is a global perspective on dei in the workplace and dei in the nonprofit sector. And this is truly a global conversation, because Allah Nikkei is in Ghana right now. So we're so excited to have you here. And the thing we love so much about her is, you know, we watched his great TED talk on how we need to be evolving our dei conversations. So we're gonna dive into that today. But I want to give you a little bit of background on on me, Kay, she is a workplace equity strategist, and an executor all rolled into one. And she just has this experience and applying Dei, which she calls EDI equity, diversity and inclusion in this lens to it and all aspects of workplace management. And so today, she really wants to talk about how do we embrace a new paradigm that's going to bring real and sustainable progress to our organizations. She wants to completely get rid of DNI for something better. So this is going to be an elevated conversation. And she really wants if you're someone that's at the very a, you know, a new hire, if you're a young professional, all the way down to someone who is a seasoned leader, we need to lean into this because there is an impact here on the social impact side, on the for profit side, both nationally and globally. So she founded mosaic consulting, to offer training, coaching and consulting to individuals and institutions that are seeking this transformation. And she is positively obsessed with building equity in the world starting with the workplace. So we are overjoyed to have her in our space today. So only Nikkei come in, join us at the we're for good podcast table work. So excited. You're here.

I am so excited to be here. I'm really looking forward to this.

Well, we are overjoyed to have you and I watched your TED Talk. And it was, first of all, it was only 13 minutes. So I don't know how I'm such a long winded human, I don't know how you got all of that content into thirds. Right? It really touched me the way that you kind of weaved in your lived experience into the way that you are really seeing an awakening into the conversation around EDI. And I think the thing that I want to tell everybody that I took away from it is this is a really trendy topic. But you've seen that this transformation is so slow. And the fatigue has set in for marginalized communities that are waiting and had been waiting to be equalized for so long. And I really love this analogy you made about I have never worked at a place where there was a black woman and leadership between me and the CEO. And I want you to kind of talk about your lived experience. First, tell us where you grew up your life. Tell us a little about your life and tell us what led you to this work right now.

Great. So I grew up partially in the US and in Nigeria in West Africa. And so the story is I was born in the in the states in the US and Missouri a couple of years after we moved to Nigeria because that's where my parents were from are from like they went to the States for graduate school. We moved back to Nigeria and Then about eight years later, when I was 10, we moved from Nigeria back to the states to Ohio. So I ended up finishing elementary school and high school in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so I've always sort of straddled not only two nationalities, but two cultures, as a result of that I'm not completely American in the typical sense, I'm not completely Nigerian, either, because of the way that my life has turned out. And we also have had this really unique family story, where we just were exposed to a lot of very various cultures, once we moved to the US, so I started to notice pretty quickly through different events that happened close, you know, family, like friends that we had issues, you know, around power dynamics around unearned privilege, unearned advantages and disadvantages and various communities. And a seed was planted about, you know, what's fair, and what's just, and over time, that grew into this work. I mean, I could keep going through example, after example, but over time, that led me to advocating for anyone that I felt was marginalized, because I have experiences of both being, you know, in a, in a community where everybody looked like me, and I was, I would be considered the privileged person and experiences where I was completely marginalized and ignored, muted. You know, what have you so you know, sort of raised this activist in me, if you will, so that wherever I ended up, whether it was our fifth community or on the playground with friends, or at school or at work, I was on a mission to make everything fair for everybody. And that's what it looked like until I entered the workforce and started to pick up on these issues in the in a workplace setting. And, you know, I was a child that couldn't keep quiet, I was always getting in trouble for this mouth, saying, I started speaking up volunteering for all the committees and the task forces. And ultimately, it turned into into mosaic. So that's the story of how I got got into it.

I mean, what an incredible story. And I love that you kind of had this perspective of growing up and knowing what it feels like to be an outsider and belonging and kind of this global perspective that most of us in the States especially don't necessarily have that perspective. And so I think it definitely informed how you knew you wanted to show that and reflect that to other people and build something different. So will you give us some perspective, as we look at dei in the workplace, I mean, you've spent more than 20 years leading local and national international organizations, what's your perspective of how dei in the workplace looks today?

So for the last, I don't know, 50 years or so since the Civil Rights Act, Title Seven, anti discrimination laws were put in place. We've seen traditional diversity and inclusion. And I think over the last couple of years, we started to see workplaces and nonprofits really go a layer deeper than DNI and really start to focus on equity. And those are, that's my jam. That's why I say equity, diversity and inclusion, and put equity first, because diversity strategies and tactics and inclusion tactics are levers that we pull and tools that we use and tactics that we we employ to get to something. And what we're trying to get to is equity. And so I am seeing more and more nonprofits are taking that extra step taking the work to that level. But I would like to see more. I would like to see a lot more. I think that for a while now, even pre 2021 A lot of people just there was just, you know, global, awake awakening, right after the murder of George Floyd, for workplaces and organizations to do more and to take, you know, anti racism and equity issues seriously. Right. But I would say that even before that, because I had clients before that, that were starting to grapple and nonprofits that were starting to grapple with this because of a new generation of, of employees coming into the workplace, and our younger generations. They're not having it. They have grown up in a different world than even I did. And I thought I grew up pretty multiculturally based on my story, right, but they're coming into our nonprofits and they're calling the leaders out and there's this like, you know, I can't I can't tell you Is what I'm feeling and thinking thing. And let me just be quiet and get through and try to climb the ladder. They're like, No, this is this is racist, this is unjust, this is unfair, and they're able to, to name these things, because some of them have gotten degrees in it, you know, courses of study that did not exist 20 years ago to study these issues. And so, even pre 2020, I saw nonprofits really starting to tackle with how do we really dig deep in our mission and within a context of the society that we're in? How do we tell these stories differently? Right, acknowledging that the individuals or the communities that we're serving did not just happen to, you know, be disadvantaged, you know, there are reasons why our community has created these issues that we're tackling as nonprofits. And so I'm, I'm energized, I'm really hopeful. At the same time, I want more and more of us to continue to do this work. And especially at the leadership level, because I do think that, you know, the older generations, and I'm, I'm there now I'm referring to myself, too. So

42 years old, not ashamed.

Same to 40, I'm 42, as well. So that, you know, we are it's our peers are now the directors and the CEOs and executive directors and even board members. And, and I think there's a lot of work that our generation has to continue to do to unlearn and relearn. And definitely the generations that were there before us that that's, you know, what I'm seeing what's given me some energy around what nonprofits are doing, and also where I would like us to do more.

I love that you took us there, because a theme of of WebEx and I love to camp out is just challenging people to ask bigger, better questions. And it's easy to do the surface work and nonprofit because there's so much need, you know, and it's easy to plug those gaps and fill in the holes. But what you said about deepening your mission to really look at and society, like what can be driving the bigger things and not being afraid to step in to those conversations and challenging and being a voice for that is really important, and how exciting that the upcoming generation is going to be our rabid fans to champion those efforts to I mean, what a way to connect people, not just a donor level, but using their voice, their social network, their, you know, other equity that they make money, you know, very powerful.

Absolutely, absolutely, I think for a very long time. And many, many organizations still talk about these issues on an individual level as and we just need to put it in context. And we need to not only start to educate ourselves, but our you know, the employees inside of nonprofits, but to educate our board members, our donors, the foundations, you know, the community, anyone that is in our ecosystem, so that we're telling a complete story. So the mission that that we're all about, and not just, you know, a fraction of it.

This is really just speaking to me this entire conversation, but I am concerned about nonprofit, because as everyone knows, we've got for profit moving, you know, at a warp speed. And then we've got nonprofits kind of just moving into a more glacial speed, you know, trying to catch up to for profit, and we're trying to close that gap. I want to talk about what you're seeing with this work in nonprofit because we want this space, to be an accelerator for ideas for movements for shifting and growing mindsets, talk about the you know where the nonprofit sector is and their dei work. And please tell us some gaps that exist that people could lean into now, because I think this is the strength of mosaic, it's not just doing the one to one, it's also doing the leader, it's really teaching informing the leader that will have a trickle down effect. So talk to us about what you're seeing there.

Sure. The sort of typical trajectory is there are people in inside of a nonprofit or affiliated with a nonprofit, that are on some sort of individual journey to deepen their own awareness and understanding of all the isms racism, for sure. But so many types of injustices and inequities in our communities, right? And typically, those folks then, you know, start bringing that energy into their organizations. And there's awareness, raising events and activities and, you know, conversations that start to happen inside of the of the organization. And then at some point, it shifts to how do we translate this awareness into how we actually do all the things that we do here? And so there's the end internal work? How do you translate? Okay, now we know about all of these issues, we've read these books, right? We've moved beyond discomfort and resistance to understanding that they're just some things that we haven't been exposed to. And so now that we know, we know what those things are, how do we then what? Right? So there's the internal work, which is what's happening inside of your organization? Where are the differences in experience across identity profiles of the people that work for you? And there's a lot more I can say about that. But I'll just leave that there for now. And then there's being external facing work? How are you actually delivering your services to whatever, you know, community groups you're delivering those services to? And how? How much does that community gets to get a say, in how you're doing that work and how you're delivering that work? So you have to ask them critical questions about power, and decision making, right, and access, about everything around everything that you do, and also about storytelling. I mean, nonprofits are huge, right? We have to tell stories to compel people, or, you know, serve some alcohol at our events to compel people to donate to our mission. But that's another piece of it is like how do we actually talk to ourselves and to, to other people, to donors and funders, about the work that we do, which we kind of hit on earlier. And so there's a lot there's a lot to work with, inside of a nonprofit, there's also the vendors that you use, you know, who's who do you rely on for legal counsel, who is delivering your office supplies, like who brings the water into your lobby, like whatever the third parties or the vendors are that you service, you have some you have some dollars that you're either funneling equitably into the broader society or not. So there's so many areas that you have to you have to start to ask about and sort of tinker with inside of a nonprofit. And, you know, I just want to say one more thing, and that is that it pains me that nonprofits are moving at a glacial pace, right compared to, for for profit industries, because I feel like we're actually closer to the ethos of BI as a nonprofit organization. Y'all were the good hearted people, right? So we should get this more than any other industry, any other sector? And I think we can I think that people a lot of times just aren't aware, and don't know what they don't know what to do with it, even after they become aware, like, how does that then translate to actions inside of my organization, and that's where mosaic comes in. That's where we love to be to help you connect those dots.

Well, I mean, you have got like minded friends here to say that we want this to be the sector where that can just incubate and the conversations we have are that like, we don't want to portray this, that that there's not positive movement happening, because we've had a lot of people on the podcast that are championing this. And part of that is investing in them. And we think about that as a company. And I love that you just pulled that out, because that's practically what it looks like. It's like, where are you making investments? Where are you pouring in your time and tapping for expertise? And it's not always just the hiring because I think that gets more of the attention. But it's all the things I mean, who's living your water is a great question, because we all have choices with everything. And we can either be part of change or not. So thank you for for lifting that. Okay, you said this on your website, I think is where we first found that but we just love this living at the intersection of difference. And I want to give you space to talk about that and kind of lead us into to how we can apply that. Okay.

So this is a way that I describe my life. I have found myself in so many different pockets of of life. And I'll give you some example. We've already talked about one nationality wise. I am both Nigerian and American, not only nationality, but like culturally, I'm a hybrid of the two places. A lot of people just flat out called me a boy we're working in binaries, right? I'm assist gendered girl or woman and was a girl but I was a tomboy. Like that's the term that was used back in the day. Class wise, both of my parents have graduate degrees again that they had me in the in the states getting those graduate degrees. So when we were in Nigeria when I was younger, between the age of two and 10, we lived a very comfortable middle class life. But then coming back to the States, we faced so many structural difficulties that we were relying on Turkey donations for Thanksgiving, you know, clothing donations from family friends. So I was like, Whoa, like total a total shift. And that's not that's a common immigrant family story, right? Where you kind of come to get to the US and you find yourself living at a different socio economic level. And I would even say faith wise, right, I was raised Christian. And when we moved to the US, and my dad had had befriended a white southern Baptist pastor, who became a close family friend. And so we started going to his church, right. But at some point in high school, we switched and started going to a historic African American church and a historic African American community in Cincinnati. So I was not only going I spent a lot of time in white church spent a lot of time in black church, and Nigerian church, because we still had Nigerian fellowship, and events around all of this, right. So literally, in the same week, I could be in like these three different, different pockets. So it just, I could go on and on and on. But there's just so many examples of this. Last example, in my personal personal life, I'm currently married to a Ghanaian. That's why I'm taking this calling Dinah. But my ex husband is African American. And so even in my relationship, that my marital relationship, there's been differences to negotiate in the relationship and also in the extended family sense. And so I have just had to build as a nature of all of that, and more a level of curiosity and an ability to adapt in all these different areas. But the other thing that it has taught me being in all these different pockets of life, because I literally have have people in my life that I love dearly that their paths would never cross, they would never be in the same space together. But I'm in all of those spaces, right? What it has taught me is that so much of issues of of inequity and injustice are really rooted in our human nature, we want power, we want to be able to control our surroundings. And so all of that just kind of manifests in very destructive ways, equity issues, as our will look different in Nigeria versus in Thailand versus, you know, you name it than it does in the United States. And so what I'm able to do is find those principles, and apply them to any context and, and it really allows me to be able to move people along to realize, listen, you might be the bad guy in this scenario. But in this other scenario, if you were in this, you know, country or in this place, you would be on the flip side of this of this issue. And I think sometimes that can help people sort of shake loose the narratives that, you know, were sort of fed, particularly in the in the US that you mentioned earlier that you're in the middle of UNL conservative area. And that's one of the questions I get is like, how do you address the political nature of this? And I'm like, That's BS. It's not politics. Yeah, politicians use issues like this on purpose to divide us. Right. But I don't I don't play into that. This is about empathy and being better humans to, to feel to get to humans. And right. And so when we start to look at historical facts and decisions and the specific things that happened to get us here, then we can realize that we can make different decisions, and we don't have to buy the narrative that we're being fed so that other people can get the power that they're seeking.

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I love that we're just having this deep conversation about the hard work and the hard work that we need to do here. But I want to transition into D biasing the workplace and how do we build really equitable workplaces? One of the key things As we've discussed throughout the season is workplace culture. And we see how much workplace culture is shifting. Now post pandemic, you know, if we can never say post pandemic, we don't know if we're gonna be out of it, there's new ways to work, there's new ways that we're interfacing. And as you said, to your point earlier about this younger generation, they are not going to come and work in these old patriarchal systems. And so I would love for you to talk a little bit about how do we start to D bias these workplaces? Can you share a little more about the work you do in this area?

Oh, yes, I would love to first let me say that I'm going to share probably like two or three things, but you're gonna be left listeners, you're gonna be left going, why I want more, I want more like, What did you say? Because there's just so much here. So I want to direct you to my website, because I have a free resource on there. That is specifically about devising your hiring process. And so it'll give you some information. I have many, like micro webinars on my website as well, 30 minutes long. Those are for sale. And then I have an online course that gets into not only disrupting inequity in your hiring, but across my entire employee lifecycle. So there's definitely more support that I can provide. But to answer it briefly, I want to say three things. The first thing is know that your hiring process because that's a lot of where people start. So I'm going to start there has I teach eight steps, eight distinct steps in your hiring process. And that's one of the first like, like, missteps that people take is thinking that there was only like two or three, you know, the application, the interview, and then you decide, and there's so much more, that's actually happening. Sometimes you don't have a strategy for all the other things that are happening. And that's why you don't really recognize it as a distinct step. But you have to start with knowing all the elements, and then tackling them one by one. Second thing I'll say is, we're used to talking about bias, tackling bias, unconscious bias and people, but we also have biased processes and procedures. And we have to start to think about both, right? How do we be bias? Not only people but our our procedures are processing. It's impossible to become an unbiased person. So let me just say that I am biased, I always will be thank you for that great we all are. It's human nature, we are biased by default. And our biases are informed by whatever it is we've experienced in life. So our life experiences shape our bias, right, but we're all biased in one in multiple ways. So what we can do is learn about the ways that we're biased, and try to put interventions in place to mitigate that bias. So whenever I find myself just because I'm always practicing this, whenever I find myself jumping to a conclusion about someone, I'm now in the practice of correcting myself and going okay, wait a minute, what's another way to look at this? What about this incident pricked me? And if I weren't prick, and I thought, and I had the same engagement, what else might I what other conclusion might I get to versus the one that I got to as a result of my bias about how this person presented to me. So there's a there's a pattern and practice that I've just developed over time, because I'm doing this all the time, you can do something similar in your processes, any point in your hiring, or people management or talent development or promotions, whatever decisions you're making about people, if you don't have clear criteria in place that have been vetted, if you don't have rubrics that are used consistently, if you're not continually coaching and training your people how to catch and mitigate bias and incentivizing them to do that, instead of just working on the fly, like we have to do so much in nonprofit work, release in all work. If you don't do all that, then bias is definitely running rampant, because we just naturally come with it. And then the third thing that I'll say is you have to plan in advance. And you have to plan in advance ways to catch and mitigate bias in everything, not just in hiring again in the entire employee lifecycle. And I'll tell you a story because I was talking to a client once. And they said, We did everything and we're at the end of a hiring process. And it looks like we're gonna hire the white person. And I was like, okay, and they're like, what did we do wrong? And this was our first time really tinkering with our hiring process. And they were doing it in the middle of the process, like the roles had been opened the job descriptions were out, you know, they were just trying to work with the candidates that they got. And I was like, listen, listen, this sounds like trying to learn how to drive on the highway. That doesn't make any sense. I learned how to drive funny story in a it wasn't even a minivan, I think it was a full size van. It must have, I think it was for a Ford like full size van, it had like a wooden table in the middle. It's like nine people. Remember.

That's what my mother had when I was learning how to drive. So that's what I do. They learn how to drive, imagine me, pulling onto the highway, learning how to drive and that thing like that. Yeah, that's how wild it is that you're trying to be bias anything in the middle of the work that you're doing, you really need to plan you need, you need to do this work in advance. And then continue to iterate and do it as you go for sure. But it's really important to be strategic, and to plan in advance of your hiring and look at all the different tools, all the processes, all the materials, how you make decisions, and figure out how to vet those for bias and how to put, you know, stop gaps in place that will literally cause pause every one and go, Okay, let's, let's really think about the decision that we're making here. Before we move to the next step. Before we move on to candidates to the step two, step three, and then hiring before we decide who's going to get that opportunity to go to that conference or not. Have we looked at this from an equity lens, because that is investing in certain people, and not investing in other people, therefore setting certain people up for exposure. And for senior leaders to go, wow, they're really great, right? And other people don't get that chance. And you may not even think about those small decisions as ways that you're investing in people. But those are all the different decision points that you have to start to think about in a workplace setting in terms of bias and embedding greater equity into your workplace.

Well, I love those examples, because I think it feeds back to the core that we're talking about is is it a safe enough place for people to call out that bias to? You know, and yeah, have you established a culture that that is accepted and embraced and champion because especially for the black person in the room, but they're the only person to be the one to stand up and say this is bias? Like, that's also not okay, like, how do you have a system? Maybe just some advice of how you coach? How do you build a workplace, that there's the psychological safety, there's the actual safety to call out biases when you see them?

Yes, yes. So your people have to be taught how to do this differently. You know, psychological safety is, is key, it's so critical. And it is impossible to make a difference when you are the only one even, you know, I see a lot of places now where they've hired a black or brown person, you know, as though dei director and they're still the only person of color in that space, or the only woman or, or whatever it is that they're even in those positions, they're still juggling so much with their pure level, that they don't always have the ability to make the change that you might think that they have. So there's sort of general advice to always strive for 30%, or more diversity in any grouping at organizational wide, peer cohort wise, and then build from there. Because then there's sort of safety in numbers, there's an automatic sort of increase in psychological safety, to be able to maybe try to speak to those things that you would not feel safe enough to speak to, as a single as a single person. But as a workplace, just like we train people to do all the other important things, we have to train people how to raise difficult points, how to work through conflict in a transformative way, in a way that moves us past that conflict, to a better place. And there are strategies for that, that I partner with a consultant that applies these restorative community practices. So that you sort of learn what are the things that you do to raise issues, to call people in versus calling people out? To call out an issue, but call in people like these are all the sort of principles that that we see. You call people in really, you call out an issue, right? So someone says something that is biased, and you catch it in the moment? We actually take you through practice exercises, how do you say, oh, man, I really, you know, that thing that you said, it points to this issue, and I would love to have a conversation about it with you. So we can talk that through. And then you do that in private, right? A lot of what happens is a lot of, you know, calling people out and pointing fingers at people in public to kind of shame them. And shame and guilt doesn't get us anywhere. As humans, we don't like to be shamed, or guilted that's not going to lead to transformation. So we have to teach these new ways of having more Place interactions, period and also interactions when there's a sensitive or tense issue or a comp or an outright conflict in place. So that we can sort of figure out how do we build this community together. And then over time, you start to build the ability, the muscle as a group, and as individuals to be able to call out those things that you need to address.

This is just a different way to look at this kind of work. And I so value that you come in, in in you say it with love, and sincerity, and authenticity and with firmness, because I do think that this is the way that we slowly start to turn the tide a little bit. And the approach to even call in to call out, that is a very empathy based approach. And I do think that people can relate to that, and they appreciate, you know, you know, the fact that someone would care enough to make that a private conversation. And that creates in itself, psychological safety. So I think just think this conversation, it's, we knew it was going to be an elevated one, because it's not just about doing the checkbox of doing the survey, employee survey and having this in there, you've got to do the work around talking through it. And that is how systems get up ended. You know, and this is how ally ship starts to evolve. And so I thank you so much. I feel like I've learned so much in this conversation, I just want to go to coffee with you. And just to have my mind blown next time we're in the States. You know, we've really value story and you've talked about this on the podcast, we think that story is the heartbeat of connection from one human to the other. And we wonder if there's a story of philanthropy that has affected you in your life stayed with you that you might want to share with our community today.

Oh, man, um, there's a lot actually, there's actually a seemingly like, irrelevant thing that happened recently, that was just to sort of show that I am still a work in progress. I was waiting outside of a mall in Virginia recently, I was in the US up themselves. In Virginia, and these teenage boys, at least male present. Were running around like in the lobby, like as I exited to wait for my, my car. And they come like kind of bustling out of the door. And it wasn't even like a conscious spot. It was an unconscious, oh, gosh, look at these boys. Is there an adult with them? You know, like, very touchy. Now the thing is, is when I walked out, there was a met in the parking lot, the parking structure was like, across the road and across from the entrance. And there was a man there with a sign. But he was asking for community support. Right and had a cardboard sign asking for help. And I never have cash. I just, I'm a cashless human. So. So I kind of looked at her and went, ah, you know, I hope I hope you know, I hope he does well today and get some help, and kept on about my business. It was a full split second thoughts. Ben, these boys come running out of the mall. And I'm in my phone seeing how far my car is. And I hear one of them. Because they're the only people out there say, Oh, hey, man, here's $1 And keep running. And then I hear another boy say, Hey, you don't man. And I was like, Wait a minute. What is happening? Like, that is a last thing. I had already put them in a box of rowdy kids running through the mall. No, like if my kid was out that probably snatch her up, right? Like, and here I am a full grown adult. I didn't have anything to give to give that man. But like they were running and slow down to be like, Hey, man, here's $1. And then, like three of them said not only gave him some money, but said something to him. We don't think about philanthropy in that way. Right? You know, as someone who spent most of my career in the nonprofit, we think about the folks with the big bucks. But philanthropy to me is also those moments is is folks that are organizing mutual aid funds, to help people instantly that needs support because an institution has failed them and they just need money to make rent this month, so that they're not out on the streets, or they just need a few extra $100 to pay for medical procedure that their insurance won't cover or something. And so those stories are incredibly moving to me. I've also been a recipient of those sorts of mutual aid. I told you earlier, there was a point in time where we we relied on food donations, and you know, my elementary school principal had daughters that were a little bit older than me and my sisters and would sometimes bring their clothes over. You know, so that With the past something that was somewhat recent, fashion wise that they were no longer wearing. And so it's those kind of community, you know, based moments of philanthropy that I think we don't quantify. You know, it probably exceeds traditional philanthropy dollars if we were to actually quantify it, because it's happening all over the place in so many communities. And that that's really amazing to me.

Yeah. And if I can just take it up even higher than the CEI conversation, what you've just said, there is the underpinning of everything to us, which is our core values, number one, and our core value number eight, which is everyone matters. And community is everything. And if you come in with a heart, I love that story so much. If you can look at the world like everyone matters, and that we can all pour into community, we've all been recipients of it, we've all been a part of giving in community. And I just think that everyone can do something. And as this conversation has been really steeped in equity and inclusion, I just think sometimes our work is so much bigger than that. It's about how do we come together and community to value every human being and if I've said it once, I'll say it 1000 times Gen Z Gen alpha, you may damn well save us the way that you can be running around in a mall, and stop and have a moment of empathy, and give what little you have to someone else, because representation matters. Being seen matters, you know, being talked to and acknowledged matters as a human being beautiful story.

Yeah, I mean, I could echo everything you just said. But this is hard work. And that's what this is all about. You know, I think it's what connects us to philanthropy just so powerful that it moves beyond that. So thank you for taking this back in your personal story, too. So okay, we round out everything and all these conversations with a one good thing, it could be kind of a practical piece of advice, or a mantra, can't wait to hear what you get.

What I would say to people of minoritized people, people of the global majority, that are excluded, marginalized in in so many different ways, is something that I'm trying to embrace for myself, which is to, to seek and embrace joy in the midst of all of the challenges. And I'm trying to find ways to do that. And I will say, like those of us that are from marginalized communities and identity groups that are doing dei work, it is so hard because we have all the feelings in our bodies. And then we also have all the knowledge. And like, I can't watch, my husband is tired of me, I can't watch a TV show or a movie or anything without like going into research mode, or connecting the dots to something else like was like five things. And he's just like, Dude, can we just watch this movie with. And it's, it can be so exhausting, even for even for me, right? So I'm really working hard to try to balance out and incorporate as much joy I have a dei colleague that is actually she uses play. And it's fascinating. She does the same sort of topics, the heavy, you know, dei topics that I teach. But she has found a way to do it through like play and comedy. And it's just so impactful. But the thing that I the thing that I want to leave people, anybody with, whether you are privileged, in the workplace, by nature of your societal, you know, sort of context or where you sit inside of an organization or whatever else is that I want us to work out this language of moving the needle out of our vocabulary and start this and I think I might have said this in my TED talk, and start to think about how do we move the whole machine forward? So what might you discover that you can do if you broaden this goal, to moving the whole thing forward? What might you just discover it's actually within the realm of possibility for you to do a bolder move that you can make if we think beyond moving the needle and think about moving the whole damn thing? So that's, that's the thing I would like to leave people with is just to shift that mindset.

And these are the kind of mindset shifts that I love it when they happen. I mean, because even just thinking in that way, is entirely eye opening. Gosh, I just adore you. I so appreciate that. You came in here and had this conversation with us. Tell people how they can connect with you how they can connect with mosaic, and I would have put a plug in here. For all of you nonprofit, not even just the nonprofits, all of you be corpse out there you for profits, if you don't have anything in your budget, around working on working through this, not just working on it, working through it growing your culture, your people, your organization, please put something in your budgets. We know a lot of you've gone into a new fiscal year, in July, and we want you to drop this in. So tell people how they can connect with you.

Yeah, so you can find me first and foremost on my website. That is mosaic four, it's the digit four. So don't spell it out. Just type in the digit for equity mosaic for equity.com. Because we're all about equity. Right? As I talked about earlier, the goal is equity. And on social media, I am most active on my personal LinkedIn. But mosaic is also on LinkedIn as a company, we're on Instagram, and we're on Facebook. And if you type in the hashtag mosaic for equity against similar to the website, hashtag mosaic for equity, you will find a plethora of posts that we've made, we try to drop that hashtag in to make it easy for folks to find the account. So mosaic for equity.com or hashtag mosaic for equity will find us online and on social media.

I want to adopt you. I feel like we have so many commonalities. Love your heart. Love your work in this keep going. We're rooting for you.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. This has been such a great conversation and I look forward to staying in touch.

Yes, we appreciate you. Thank you.

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