I love books, hardbacks, paperbacks, ebooks, audiobooks. I just love reading period in my TV read pile is a stack to very, very high right now. A series that has been on my TBR list for years has been the out of my mind series by Sharon Draper. And I was very much hesitant to read the series at first, but something changed my mind. More on that in my interview with the author of the series after a short break.
Welcome back to Think inclusive. Each week we bring you conversations about inclusive education, and what inclusion looks like in the real world. Sharon M. Draper is a distinguished educator and author recognized as natural teacher of the year and a five time winner of the Coretta Scott King Literary Award. Her novel out of my mind, was a New York Times bestseller. Draper has received numerous accolades including the Milken Educator Award and the Margaret A Edwards Award for Lifetime literary achievement. She's been honored at the White House and spoke at the National Book Festival Gala. Her work Kapur son is internationally acclaimed, and was named one of the 100 best books of all time by Time Magazine. This episode of thinking inclusive, we're joined by Sharon Draper, an exceptional voice and middle grade literature, whose books have captivated readers across the globe. Draper takes us behind the scenes of her creative process during the conversation, sharing the inspirations and challenges that shape her memorable characters and their stories. We began with a deep dive into Draper's most beloved character melody from the out of my mind series. were given a unique window into melodies world exploring self acceptance, belonging and disability representation. Sharon outlines her meticulous approach to research emphasizing the importance of authenticity in crafting a character like melody who has cerebral palsy, and navigates a myriad of personal and social challenges. We talk about Melody's experience in summer camp and the second book in the series out of my heart, Melody's friendships and her quest for inclusion. We wrap up the episode with an exciting teaser, from the upcoming third book in the series, where Melody's adventures will take her out of the country. Do you believe that all children with and without disabilities deserve to reach their potential through inclusive education? If so, you'll love Brooks publishing, the premier publisher of books and tools on early childhood special education, communication and language and more. Brooks publishing has been partnering with top experts for over 30 years to bring you the best resources for your classroom, clinic or home. To learn more, visit Brooks publishing.com. To browse their catalogue, read their blog, and sign up for their newsletter. Brooks publishing, helping you make a difference in the lives of all children. And just for thinking cluesive listeners visit bi T dot L y slash Brooks dash 03242 Put your name and to win a copy of the facilitators guide to the paraprofessionals handbook for effective support and inclusive classrooms or the IEP checklist your guide to creating meaningful and compliant Iaps. We'll be taking names until the end of the month and maybe a little bit into April. And now my interview with Sharon am Draper.
Mrs Sharon Draper Welcome to the thinking cluesive podcast.
Well, I am delighted to be here as I tried to turn off my phone so that it doesn't ring because it always does when I'm in the middle of something important watch it's going to
in fact, I should probably do that right now too. Yeah.
settings. Okay, put it on airplane mode. All right, that'd be Yeah.
I've actually been in interviews where, where my phone rings and my phone is connected to my recording device so you can actually hear the ring in
the morning. Yes. Oh, you
have a furry friend back there with Cookie.
She expects she knows when I have interviews that she gets cookies.
Oh
Say hello. Hi, Cookie. They Hello. Oh, hey there.
She's in both books. And briefly in the third book. So, but melody has a golden retriever. So yeah. And I've had like, four golden retrievers in my life. So. So I if there's a golden retriever and all my books someplace.
Yeah, isn't that it's butterscotch. Is that right? Yeah. Butterscotch in? Yeah. In? In the in the butt? Yes. Okay, great. Well, I so I want to start off with just a quick story about my daughter. She's 11 years old. She's in sixth grade. And probably in fifth grade, she picked up out of my mind and was like, Hey, Daddy, you know, you used to be a teacher used to be used to teach. You're a special education teacher. Have you ever read out of my mind? And I was like, no, actually, I haven't. I've heard about it. I know about it, but I have not read it. And so she's like, Daddy, you got to read it. You got to read it. And then she got out of my heart. And she read it. And I loved it and said, Daddy, you need to read out of my mind and out of my heart. And so I was like, okay, okay, you're right, I need to read it. It's been on my list for years, I just haven't done it. And then one day, we were on the couch, I think, just relaxing. And I saw my daughter, reading your books, again, probably for the second or third time. And it dawned on me. This story has really captivated my daughter, and has really inspired her to know more about what I do what I did as a teacher and then also what we do as an organization, because MCIE works with school districts on on how to, you know, be more inclusive for all learners. And I was like, I need to reach out to Mrs. Draper and see if she would want to be on the conclusive our podcast. And and here you are.
I'm delighted. I'm glad to be.
And so I did tell my daughter, hey, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to ask Mrs. Draper a question. So I'm gonna cue up the question. We'll listen to it and then we'll have you answer it. Does that sound good? All right.
Questions from the young people. All right, here we go. Why did
you choose cerebral palsy as the disability for melody when you could have chose from many others?
Okay, good question. Why did I choose cerebral palsy? Well, when you're an author, I wish you could see, I guess you can see behind me my, the stacks of books behind me and I've got another bookshelf full of books on this side. I was a reader as a child. And I liked reading about young people with challenges young people that were different young people that had to do something different. There was a book called Danny done in the homework machine. It's an oldie but goodie. But it's about this kid, that infinitive homework machine that could, you know, so nobody had to do homework, because you just typed it into the homework. We see. We now kids now have homework machines on their tablets.
Yeah, exactly. But
Danny done was was way before his time. So I was a reader. And, and I knew that I wanted to write about a child that was different that was struggling. That was just as smart as anybody else. Because I taught for like, 9 million years. And always they see the young person who learns differently. You know, I've had blind kids. I've had kids in wheelchairs, I've had kids with various devices, you know, because we were in a school district that had a general population, but everybody was welcome as long as they could figure out a way to get them up and down the stairs and But, you know, on the elevators and so forth, so when you're writing you have to choose your problem. Okay? You have to choose what the difficulty will be any movie that you watch. I don't know what the current movie is that all the kids are watching, but give me one that it's popular.
Oh gosh. The oh gosh, now you put me on the spot Mrs. Draper? I don't know Barbie. Barbie is good. Do my kids watch Barbie that that's that's got a big problem, right? Yeah.
Okay, so what is Barbies problem? How does Barbie solve a problem? The How does Barbie, you know get from point A to point B, how do you write a story about a fashion model, you know, who has a perfect life was a perfect boyfriend. Make this fictional character seem real when you make it into a movie. So there's an awful lot you have to think about. So you choose your character, your character has to have a problem. Because if you have a character that has no issues, okay, my name is Susie, I am perfect. I make straight B's. I've never been rained on, nothing bad has ever happened to me, my dog has never been hit by a car. I've never, you know, been lost in the woods. I've never, you know, so you have to create a problem. Otherwise nobody wants to read it, your character has to have a problem. It has to be a believable problem. And it has to be a solvable problem, or at least a challenge that can be dealt with. So I chose that after lots and lots of research and gave melody. I've had students with lots of medical conditions. And so I gave melody, a medical condition. And I just worked at it. I did tons and tons and tons and tons of research. I'm thinking I'm not a year of research before I even began to, to study I remember I used to visit schools all the time. And I went and I talked to the school and there was a young lady there in a wheelchair. And and she she raised her hand. And she had difficulty speaking and she said, I think you are right, a movie about a kid like me. I mean, write a book about a kid like me. And I said, that's a good idea. And then everybody else in the classroom. Yeah, how about here, now I'm gonna have to find your person, you have to find your problem, you have to define the problem, you have to somehow come to a resolution, or at least acceptance of the problem. And it has to have a satisfying answer the reader when they finish it. That was good. It's hard. It's long, and it takes years to do. So it's kind of hard to answer in two minutes. But that's, that's a good question and a hard question. And if you want to be a writer, you have to do that. Another thing I tell students, if you want to be, let's say you want to be a painter, you have to decide if this painting is going to be red, or blue, or blue with green speckles. Or it's going to have people in it or is it going to have dogs in it? Or is it going to be funny? Is it going to be sad? You as the creator get to decide that? So I have a zillion options. And those are the options that I chose for this book. Yeah.
And melody is, is real. You know, like, she's, she I know she's a character. I know that she's a complete fiction, but when you read the books, the problems are real, the problems are what a lot of people face, particularly those with disabilities. So, let me let me share this with you. So I I was hesitant to read the books. I was a special education teacher for 16 years. And I know Yes, so and I taught in in self contained special education classrooms. I had students with various various, you've taught. I did I did. And actually what's really funny is I taught in a school where we had a pod a so it's very similar and that's it's very similar and you know, I'm sure a lot of our listeners are educators and and that are special education teachers. And so this kind of language is really is really interesting. thing. And I was hesitant to read the book because I had gotten some feedback, particularly from disabled people that I know, like disabled, you know, activists and advocates that didn't appreciate the way that melody had, I guess the language she was using to describe herself and, and kind of the negative self talk, but I, you know, I wanted to talk with you and I read both books, because I really see melodies arc as coming to a self acceptance, and really finding herself and her voice. And you know, characters aren't perfect, right? characters, characters grow. And so there's aspects of melodies, you know, character and arc that are going to resonate with people. And some that it may may rub people the wrong way. But isn't that the isn't that the point? Isn't that the point of having like a rich character.
And if I had made her not realistic, if I had made her I'm not believable, then I would have gotten criticism from the other side. That way, you just made this this fairy tale person. And it's not like that. And a person who has a disability would have trouble going to the bathroom, you know, wouldn't worry about, you know, whether she was looking cute for a boy, that those kinds of things. So I had to do real world things in order to make it real. And I know, I read the criticisms, too. But ultimately, I think Melody emerges victorious. And she's one of the few severely handicapped protagonists, that emerges victorious. So yay, for miletti.
Yeah, yeah. And well, at the end of the first book, and I apologize if I'm spoiling it for ya. I mean, everyone should read the books, I think. And then it sounds like there's going to be a third one. But the, you know, the, the end of the first book really sets up the the acceptance that melody feels in her life, it's like, well, you know, what, if no one else is going to be looking out for me?
Look out for herself. Yes, yes. Yes,
yes. And while, right, we want, we want classrooms, we want schools, and we want our, you know, community to be accepting of everyone. We want to build environments where everyone can be, you know, thrive and have belonging. But the way that you set up this problem that melody has, I think, is I think it brings energy to it. Right, it brings energy to the second book, which, you know, again, no spoilers, I think, you know, is Is
she goes to summer camp, you can match and the second book, she goes to summer camp, and she meets a boy, and she likes a boy and he likes her. So Bear, you know, give her some points there.
So the second book is Melody going to camp. And it's a camp that is designed to support individuals with disabilities. So there's, you know, the, the camp counselors, I actually have disabilities and the campers are people with disabilities. Is this based on a camp that you that you were wherever you kind of put it together from?
Yes, and no, and both. I, I did a lot of research on camps for kids with disabilities. And there's one probably in every state, some states have a lot. And, you know, some are better funded than others. But I, I've visited a couple of them. And they're really the people who work they're just awesome people, you know, they just really cool people and, and they love their jobs. And they, you know, they don't consider it a burden. It's like, hey, why not? Why can't they go camping and boy on a rowboat and go, you know, do those kinds of things. So I expanded her world and set her to camp in in the second book, and you won't know what she goes into third one.
I would love to
know if I can tell you now, but she don't know
either. It's all right. Breaking news breaking.
Three, she goes out of the country. Oh, plane ride and she goes out of the country. She becomes a hero. She saved somebody's life. Yes, Melody saved somebody's life and, and the longer the short of it, she ends up going to lend it. And that was due last week. So I've got to hurry up and finish it
well, right after right after you finish, you can just kind of get on get on that. Okay, I've got
it pretty much together.
So in in this camp, you know, she, she meets a boy. She has some really fun experiences and novel experiences like riding a horse going on in zipline. But ultimately, it's really like about friendship, right? It's about friendship, it's about belonging. And I'm just wondering, so melody experiences it, this at the camp. But melody can experience that anywhere, right? Not just at that camp.
What do you mean? I mean, if there's somebody who's willing to, you know, work with her and cooperate with her and meet her on her level, and, you know, deal with what she needs. You know, like, I tell kids all the time, if I'm talking to kids at school, I say, raise your hand, if you wear glasses, raise your hand, if you can't see without your glasses. So keep taking glasses off. And you have to do the next week without your glasses. See, here, everybody has some sort of disability or some sort of thing that they have to adjust or adapt to. So they see it a lot more that way when they can see something that that they, you know, that they could experience. So I tried to make it realistic for kids. And I wanted it to be a learning experience as well, without it being preachy, because kids will run away from a book that's preachy.
Like, we have, like the school that the school that I used to work for, actually, my daughter goes to the middle school, and they have opportunities, you know, like, in four h, or whatever, or pot a where I used to work, no kids are separated, right? Because they're separated. And so my daughter who is typically developing and, you know, general education classrooms, she doesn't have the opportunity to even hang out or spend any time with kids who are different. But they're starting to, at this middle school, expand the opportunities for her to be able to spend time and to actually be friends with people who are different, so and she was just so excited, like, she'd definitely saw the connection between me reading or her reading the stories and then experiencing it in real life. You know, it's important
for young people to do that, because we live in a real world. And if you go shopping, or you go to the Walmart or Target and somebody comes at you with a wheelchair, you should know to say hi, instead of run the other direction to say, hi, and wait for a response. Hope you have a good day. I love your blue shirt, that kind of thing. So even if kids just learned that much that that should be friendly to somebody that might look or act or operate differently than they did. Right.
And that's, you know, that's, I mean, it's not enough, right? It's not enough. But it's, it is a starting point.
It's a start. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
You said that you're a former educator. So I taught for 30 years. You taught for 30 years in public schools. public school. Yeah.
Wow. Sixth grade through 12th I've taught them all wow, like sixth graders there they don't know everything yet and know absolutely everything. Nothing you can teach me except give me my diploma. Yeah, I enjoy it.
Oh, wow. So what got you into writing then?
As a writing teacher? And you know, I taught English writing language. Oh, That's an opposition. And we did a lot of writing in class. And I, you know, I dabbled at home a little bit. But what got me started was I had a student and it was not my best student. It was one of my worst students who found this application for a writing contests in a magazine and said, You thank you so bad, why don't you write something? And so seriously, that's what he said. And so he gave me the application. And I said, Okay, why not? So I wrote a little story. And I, I sent it in, and it was months before they reply, but I got first prize. So that was my first piece of writing.
Wow. Okay. And so did you. The, what was your first book? Because I don't think it was out of my mind. Correct. Here's a tiger. Okay. And so, the first, so tears of a tiger. How far along were you in in your teaching career that you published your first book?
I guess near the end. I was I was close to retirement. And the story came out, and I've got my picture in the paper, and it was a big deal. And then I had been dabbling more and more with writing. And I had enough years in to retire. So I did. And then I said, Okay, I'm gonna write full time, I had no idea what that met. Wow, the first book that I wrote, I sent and I just sent this email to a young lady. I get lots of letters from prospective writers. And I have no answers. Don't write me because I can't go. But what I told her was my first book I sent to 25 different publishers. And I get 24 rejection letters in a row. And this is before we had email. These came in the mail, postage mails, big, thick, rejection letters. No, no, no, no, no, no, no 24 of those. And it took months for them all to come. And so I was depressed and down and said, Well, maybe I'm not such a writer after all, but the very last one was a yes. And it was Simon and Schuster. So the rest is history.
Wow. Wow. And you just continued to, to publish books. And now Now you're publishing the third book in the I guess does? Are you calling it a particular series? Is it the out of
the out of my something out of my something? So
the third book will have that out of
my mind out of my heart, and this one is out of my not telling, but it's out of my son? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
that that might be too far. Your publisher might not like that. Yeah.
It's, it's okay, we're in first edits, which is the hardest. And my editors, just like I was with my students, she goes over that thing with a fine tooth comb. Well, what about this? And what about this, and you live this out? And you never resolve that problem? And what about this? And how could she possibly and what do you think? She's good, though? I love her. And she's very good.
You need a good editor. You need a good editor. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I produce, I produce this, this interview podcast. So I don't, you know, I edit myself, I don't have an editor. But I did do a narrative series. Where I was, I'm telling the stories of inclusive schools and families moving towards full inclusion for their, for their children, and a lots of different interviews, lots of different narration and script writing on my part, I wish I had somebody going over with a fine tooth comb, because, as you know, as a writer, editing yourself is so difficult, you can't
do it, because you can't see your mistakes. Whereas a different person could look at it and say, well, she said blue 14 times in the last six pages. How about if we vary the colors? Oh, you know, it's not it's the kind of thing I wouldn't have noticed. But an editor does. But then she does things like, okay, you've got this, but this doesn't make sense. And this doesn't follow through. And you mentioned this in chapter 12. But you've never went back to it. So either continue it or delete it. Oh, she's hard. Yeah, yeah.
That's great. Okay, so I have a couple questions popped up about melody and, and so the couple different interesting characteristic characteristics about melody Is synesthesia, right that she can see? When she can see colors? Based on? Is it music?
Yes, she can see colors, she can feel music. Synesthesia is a it's a, it's a wide variety of definitions, but it's people who can interpret the senses differently than other people. And, you know, so if you can feel for if you ever see I don't know, a puppy that's been hit by a car, your feelings, you know what those feelings? You know, if you go in the I used to tell my students focus on the on the five senses, you know, if you walk outside barefoot in the snow, what does it feel like? Have you been barefoot in the sand? What is the difference between barefoot in the snow and barefoot in the sand on a beach? You know, what was the difference? You know, how many different colors of blue? Can you mention? What do armpits smell like after a basketball game? So you've got to include all of the senses. Right?
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I thought that was really interesting. And then the other aspect, which we haven't talked about yet is that melody is non speaking, but uses a communication device to and she types to communicate. So it's interesting, because you talk about the E talked about the beginning of our conversation, setting up the problems, right. So we like with as, as far as melody goes, she has a lot of problems that she's got to solve. Right? Not only like the ableism that is inherent in kind of our society, but also she has communication that she wants to get out that she had to figure out how to do. Right
mind. And she's, she's got so much to say, right, exactly,
exactly. So was that more of, like a literary convention, like trying to, like come up with a problem that was so big to make to make your character or it was it? Was it like, you trying to, like what was behind that? Particular?
I get asked that question a lot. I don't use literary conventions for the sake of, okay, let's get so symbolism here on page 12. You know, it's, it's how the story developed. You know, I tell kids, you've got to make sure you use all the sensory input possible. And so since Melody's had difficulties with parts of her body, her other senses would be heightened. And a lot of people like blind people can often hear very good. And, you know, people who, who have certain disabilities have other things that are better than others. So I did a lot of research to make it realistic. And to make sure that it was, you know, through to a character like this. It took a long time. Yeah, yeah. At written overnight, it was several years. I worked. Well,
and then so the so out of my mind came in in 2010. Is that right? And then out of my heart came out just within the last two
years, years. Last year, I think it was two years. Yes.
Okay. But that as far as that it took 10 years did you want to, like what was it? Were you working on other things?
I've written like 20 other books? Yeah, right. Other books while I was waiting to do the next one. Yeah, right. Right. The the, I wrote blended.
Oh, yeah. Right. Yes.
She is about a girl who is a biracial child. And she and in addition to being biracial, she's her parents had divorced. And so she lives with her mom, one week, and her mom works as a waitress at Chucky Cheese or something like that. And her father, her mother is white. Her father is black. And he is wealthy, you know, rich attorney, you know, so she's blended so many ways. She's blended racially she's blended socially. She's blended culturally and she's is 12 so she doesn't know where she falls in the world? Where's my place? Where do I fit in? As most kids this age as they're approaching adolescence, feel like they don't fit in anywhere. So blended shows how she manages to awkwardly sometimes blend her family and her life together. To be that tell your daughter, she's she can read that when she's She's. She's old enough to read it. Oh,
yeah, yeah, definitely. I think yeah, in fact, I think she told me about it that she wanted to she wanted to read that one is for you, the all the books that you've written? Do you? Is there like a common theme? That? No, yeah, no.
theme, so something that teachers as students to do, what is the theme of this book? writers don't do that. You write a story, you create a character, you create a problem. You try to solve the problem. And whatever conclusion the reader comes to at the end of it. That's the theme. I don't find a theme. Did you plan for the theme to be we should all love each other. So yeah, yeah. It's like, playing a theme. I write the story. I write the characters. I create the problems. You figure it out to see I don't do that. Interesting.
So you're just basically creating worlds, right? It's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So there's a movie coming out.
There's a movie coming out.
There's a movie coming out of my mind premiered at this at Sundance. It was actually this year, January of 2024. Right? Yes, yes. Really? Yeah. Just so what was that like to experience the story that you wrote, being envisioned on the big screen?
Now, first of all, you have to step back and let Joe because it's no longer your baby. It's belongs to somebody else who's dressing it up in different clothing. So they did a wonderful job. You know, I've seen the movie. They've done a really good job. The the young lady who they chose to play the part of melody actually has cerebral palsy. And she's a fine actress and how they found her I don't know, but feeling really did a good job. All of the cast did a really excellent, excellent job. When I saw the whole thing in the in the movie theater, I cried. I mean, it was genuine. It was that good. They did an excellent job. It will be released on the Disney Channel. No, no. It's finished. But I don't have anything to do with the negotiations between the company that made the movie and the Disney people. Alright, I have nothing to do with it. I get emails that say, Oh, by the way, it will be out on Tuesday. So they have not given me a date. But I know that it's going to be on Disney. I know that it's going to be soon. I just don't know when. Okay. It will be interesting to see what students think of the interpretation. Because every time I read a book, and see the movie, I always liked the book better. Oh, because it's somebody else's interpretation of what these characters are. But I think they did a very fine job. I'm very pleased with it. Well, I
mean, that. I mean, that's good. Since you wrote it, and you have that opinion. I think that that's probably a good sign.
I don't have much choice.
Yeah, exactly. And are there any plans for other movies? Or I guess it just depends on how this one does. They haven't
told me so I don't. Yeah, they had talked. Tiptoe talked about doing the book, that camping thing. But it has to be filmed in the summer, they have to find a camp, they got to get permission to film inside a camp someplace. And so it may not happen, but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It may happen, you know, in five years, I don't know. Right, right.
And then I've, we've already talked about the third book. And so the continuation of Melody's story and that will come out sometime in 2025. Probably.
Yes. Because I have to turn it in. It's March and I have to Turn It In by September, I think, which is cutting it close. And then they have to chop it and fix it. And then they send it back for corrections. And then, and then we do it and we go through the fixing and the editing is kind of like what I did with my students, you know, you write the thing, I give you corrections, you do it again, you do it again. So the IP will be soon, but it's coming. Yeah. I mean, they have talked about the look, too, but I don't know.
Excellent. Excellent. So a lot of our listeners are educators, their teachers, either in the classroom or maybe their principals, or they might even be district leaders, like administrators, administrators, assistant superintendents. What is if anything? Would you want them to walk away with, from our conversation talking about melody talking about, you know, you know, educating learners anything on top of mind?
Well, first of all, I'd like to give a general word to all of them, with taking books out of libraries, quit taking books away from teachers quit taking books out of classrooms, let children read, if, if I as a parent don't want my child to read that book. That's my right. But you as an administrator do not have the right to tell my child what they cannot read. I live in Florida, in Florida, there are entire Wings of buildings that are empty because all the books have been removed. horrible, terrible books like frog and toad are friends. Because it talks about an interracial relationship between a frog and a toad bait. The I have the list. There's like 400 books on here. children's books, books that we read as kids, harmless books, books that somebody said, Oh, no, that approaches this particular subject. And it's not talking about anything bad. It's not talking. There's no sex, there's no violence. There's no killing. There's interaction of people getting along. And they've been there's 1000s of them that have been removed from the schools in Florida. And it's very, very sad and makes me very angry.
Wow, Mrs. Draper bringing the fire about book banning. I really, I really appreciate that.
Books. My goodness, you want to ban something? Bad math? That's hard.
Oh, okay. Fantastic. Fantastic. After a quick break the mystery question.
Mystery question is if you were a captain of a ship, what would you call it?
I would tell you to get me off of this thing. Now, I would call it something having to do with I'd have to think about it had something to do with clean, something to do with water, and something to do with movement. I I went on one cruise and I didn't like it. I felt overwhelmed by the volume of water, and by the distance from land where I can actually touch ground. So it brought fear in me and I don't often feel fear. But it made me feel fearful. Interesting. And so and I know that there are a lot of things that young people face that is very fearful in their life. And they have lives that are very difficult from the life that I grew up. I grew up with a mommy and a daddy and a brother and a sister and a cat and a dog. I had a perfect life. But there are kids that don't have that. And so I would like to do something that would touch and reach and help those kids that need love and support and connection and compassion. I don't know if the question or not but it's
so Okay, it's okay, cuz we can go however we want with this. And I don't know what I would call a ship that our a captain of but it does what you said it reminded me my grandfather, his name is Julio was and he had a fishing boat, and that he would, and I would go deep sea fishing, I grew up in the Los Angeles area. And we would go with my cousin, deep sea fishing. And I just remember the feeling of going out and like fishing and like him helping me with the, the, the bait and the hooks and everything like that. And we'd spend all day like we'd get there like at five or six in the morning, and then we'd go until two or three in the afternoon, and we'd come back, and we would drive from Long Beach is probably where we were, we went out and then went back home. And I remember when I would get off the boat, I felt like I was still moving. You know, because of the the your body and your senses are constantly moving on the boat. And that that feeling would last like for hours and hours. And that's just a really nice memory that I have of now do I go fishing anymore? No. But I remember it.
Yeah. And that's a good memory that you have. And that's the kind of thing that we have to do with children is give them connections and memories and things that they might not do. I will never go on another boat. Not on purpose. You know? Because it wasn't fun. I didn't enjoy it. It was terrifying to me. But you have to do it in order to learn that. Nope, that's on my list of things I won't do. But the fact that it brings you fond memories of your grandfather makes it a very special memory. Mrs.
Sharon Draper, thank you so much for being on the thinking cluesive podcast, it was a leisure to speak with you.
Well, it was certainly a delight I love talking to to young people, young readers, older people and people who have children who might be readers and potential readers. And my final words, just, you know, curl up with a favorite person and three together
that's it for this episode of thinking inclusive. We appreciate each and every one of you that hit play on this episode. If you want to say hi, I would love it. You can email me at tva guess@mcie.org That's TVILLEG a s hat. MC e.org. Or find us on the socials at think underscore inclusive. We're pretty much that everywhere. I'm personally really liking threads lately. So check us out on there if you want. Thanks to Brooks publishing for being a sponsor this season, make sure to go to Brooks publishing.com and check out their catalogue. No doubt you will find something very useful. Original Music by miles credit, additional music from melody that's m elod.ie. If you're interested in checking them out. Thanks for your time and attention. And remember, inclusion always works.
I do a segment at the end of every interview called the mystery question. And they're usually harmless questions. I read the question and then we both answer it. Now again, I'm going to edit this out. Again, if it's something you don't want to answer, that's totally fine. Just let me know and we will you know if you're up for if you're up for it, we can do it.
There's never been a question asked that I could not think of an answer for Okay,
here we go. I challenge you. All right. All right. MCIE
