The Pursuit of Learning - Terry Sidhu
5:43AM May 3, 2021
Welcome to the pursuit of learning podcast. I'm your host, Clint Murphy. My goal is for each of us to grow personally, professionally, and financially, one conversation at a time. To do that, we will have conversations with subject matter experts across a variety of modalities. My job as your host, will be to dig out those golden nuggets of wisdom that will facilitate our growth. Join me on this pursuit. Today on the pursuit of learning, I had the pleasure of talking with Terry Sue. through teaching meditation, Terry has helped over 100 people manage their mental health without medication. Additionally, he has helped clients get out of unhealthy relationships, and in delfy ones, launch their business, start their careers and explore their inner spirituality. Terry's goal is to help everyone realize they can learn to meditate, which will improve their life. And that is what we talked about today. spirituality, mindfulness, meditation, in Terry's journey from a young boy in England, to a meditation teacher in Vancouver, British Columbia. I hope you enjoy today's conversation.
Terry, welcome to the pursuit of learning. It's great to have you today. I want to start our conversation. When you were a boy in England, in your book, you write that at events, they would always play out the same way. And two things really stuck out to me. One was the women always seemed happy. But beneath their smiles were conversations of abuse, fear and sadness. And the second one was for the men. New said, then, as the food went cold than the alcohol near the bottom of the bottle, I would witness tears and fragility followed by anger and occasionally fighting, which scared me. So being able to remember back to when you were a child, and having these visions, you unpack that for us and why you think that might have always been what you saw.
Yeah, at that age, you was you were We were in a very immigrant community, like my grandparents came from India, my mom and dad were from India as well. And so trying to raise families and trying to survive in this new world that made that was a very stark experience. It was a witnessing, like, you could we couldn't talk about the daily problems, because the overall trying to survive and put food on the table was such such a big issue and trying to make that happen, make ends meet, there was no time to talk about what was going on underneath the surface. The only time demand I thought could even could even feel comfortable being vulnerable was when, you know, they were forced to thanks to drinking and getting together. You know, as much as I think the celebrations and the things that brought us together as a family and all these all these situations occurred. They were literally it's that it was kind of therapy. It was a nice Well, I realized, I mean, that's more now me reflecting on it. For me witnessing it as a kid. Yeah, it was just a lot of emotion in every pocket of the house. And it seemed like I was the only one that could see that. And and yeah, I think you just because I was meditating and observing the world, watching the women how they were working, and they were operating and watching the man you know, it's not the the only way they knew how to survive is the only way we knew how to survive. And I think that even for myself witnessing that and observing all of that occurring, it made me realize what we hold dear to life, what we hold dear to the preservation of life. And what's more important here, and that's when it came down to the crunch. You know, we there was no room for mental health issues. It was always it's got to get food on the table. And that's all I remember it as I was scared only because it was you know, these are the these are people raising you and setting you up for the world. Right? And then here they are in the most vulnerable moments. And that was a very scary thing, because I'm like, these guys are talking about how hard it is. How hard is it going to be for us? You know, babies are the ones that are always like a little kid. So it was Yeah, sorry. I wasn't prepared for that question. It was a D is this something you've ever talked to your mom and dad about as an adult looking back and how that must have felt for them and how it felt for you as a child? Yes, actually we have and more we've become more and more open about it. As I've grown older and as I started learning about the world for myself, and speaking to my mom specifically talking about kind of how she felt her experiences like you know, in an arranged marriage coming home, coming to moving to England into this whole new world, new traditions, new way of living, how much of her life was suppressed, you know how much she could be open was limited and my dad on the other side, it was The same It was weird. It was like, because the responsibilities was so separate being, you know, man, you know, wife, woman husband, like the roles are so rigid. And understanding that as an as an individual like that you have to play this role. Both of them still kind of had this experience where they felt like that dreams are shattered, or that they couldn't be as expressive or open because of these very specific roles that they that they were trapped in by. And when they especially when I released the book, they were like, It's incredible to know that in just like one generation, you know, you feel comfortable saying to me that I feel comfortable expressing myself and being open about this and putting this book out there. And the and it's inspired them, which is a really nice thing to hear my parents say it feel like they're inspired by something that are produced. And it's inspiring to hear that, you know, we're having the conversations now that we should have been having, we should have felt like we had the right to have when you were younger. And that's that's a very exciting and opportunity, an opportunity for me, I think it's great to see that with your parents and have that relationship now.
Absolutely. That's amazing to hear. And something your mom did do when you were nine. And while you were dealing with all of this as a child is she started to teach you yoga and meditation. What was what was that like for you as a nine year old? First the experience learning it with your mom. And second having access to those tools that not many children have at the age of nine.
Yeah, the meditating and learning yoga. So it wasn't response to being bullied a lot. A lot of it was learning how to create a world in which I felt completely safe and secure and the way I was taught. I wish you know sometimes when I talk about it, I'm making it sound as if it was like some sort of Mr. Miyagi type thing. Yeah, she's telling me to be one with the universe loves floating in the 11th day. But no, it was more. My mum was very smart. She kind of tricked me into meditation a little bit. The way she would teach it she a good laugh, be like, Mom, well, how can we like how can I fly, you're now going to do all these things with superpowers and whatnot. And she was like, say jump in the air. And I would jump and then obviously, I'm coming straight back down. She goes, see you can fly, you just can't take off yet. And then she say sit in meditation and do this. And you can learn and figure that out and how to come up with that solution. So it was always a little things like that, I would ask a question. And I remember like how I am now I always talk, talk, talk talk, and sometimes I'm forget to breathe. And yeah, I'm gonna bring myself back to breath. She would always say this thing in Punjabi, which was solid, which means take a breath, and then go into school and being bullied and stuff. I was like, Well, why do I have to breathe? Why do I have to take a breath? I like a question that because it's like I don't want to read it seems to be pointless preserving all this experience of it's a bit crappy. But she was like, and that's when she started getting out all the books and the tech. She goes, if you want to find out why it's important to breathe, if you want to learn why you have to breathe, she goes look for the clues in this book, these books. And that's when I started diving in, it just became this mystery. Well, for me to uncover like a Choose Your Own Adventure book, it was the best kind of lesson. It wasn't written in the morning to describe her teaching methodologies. It actually does sound very Mr. Miyagi, like, just just giving you bits and pieces. And then eventually, it all pulls together to wait a second, I know how to meditate. And so what was that bullying being driven by as a young man in the UK? And how did you use meditation, if you did to help overcome in the bullying, I think it's I mean, I was a very expressive flamboyant kid. And, you know, I didn't know at the time, but I was a very, I was queer. And I was trying to figure that out as a kid. And I didn't know because your sexuality doesn't even talk openly discussed. And I didn't even know that being gay was a thing until I was like, in my late teens, I had all these kind of new ideas about sexuality. And, and the thing is, everyone was kind of paying me this picture as an individual that was driven by sexual desire, especially going from like, you know, even though was bullied at nine, but more. So when I was going into my teenage years. I was never, and I never saw the world in that way. I always was talking about creation I always wanted to talk about, I was happy to talk about God, I was happy to talk about all these kinds of really esoteric thing I wanted to learn about the stars. I wanted to learn about why things moved, and no one wanted to have that conversation. So I became really outcasts very quickly. Everyone, all the lads just wanting to play football, or the girls just wanted to sing and dance and do all this other stuff. And, and we were talking primary school here. So it's very kind of everyone who had adopted their specific roles based on what they experienced in life. And there's me and I'm like, I'm trying to figure out why we breve and no one wants to talk about that. And growing up in a mix community where an immigrant community where lots of religions, lots of Indian cultures are coming together. If I stayed the more I spoke about the state of creation and God The more I became known as a religious one, and no one wants to hang out with a religious kid, so I suppressed a lot of that and with meditation, what I learned was I Could be more The world is way more expensive in my mind and is here like I realized, there's more traveling there's more experience that can have within. I mean, I learned very quickly that when I'm going to visit a memory and when I'm going to, like have an idea, my bodies and going there, my body is very self aware that my body was in meditation, what I'm connecting to I'm not connecting to his body, I'm connecting to something else. And the more and more exercise that the more I realized, I became a little bit more detached from my body. And so he never really was this, like, even though like, I'd go home, people are pushing me on the way home and like bullying me and picking on me as I was making my way home back from school. I just knew the moment I got into meditation, I could this dream would be over. If that made sense. It's like I'd start my life in meditation, my lightly I wake up, yeah, you could wake up into the real world or a version of your version of reality. Yeah, that's exactly how I used to do it when I was a kid.
`And then as you got older, you actually started to feel like an outsider in your own Sikh community was that for similar reasons? Was it for different reasons? Terry,
I think with the Sikh community, there's, you have the Sikh community, and then you have the Punjabi community. So you have the religious side of things. And then you have the cultural aspects of it, too. And those lines are really blurred, I didn't fit the role of a tip. Like I didn't feel encouraged, I didn't want to grow my hair out and wear a tie. But I didn't want to grow a beard, even though it's a sign of identity, I didn't want the religions tell me what to do. I was like, I'm tired of the world telling me how to be the last thing I want is this religion, which says, seek the truth, seek your own truth. And then here I am doing that. And then it's telling me to be a certain way to do that doesn't click with me. So I was quite like, even my dad even send this to the temple to learn Punjabi animated Punjabi school and stuff. And I was the first one I was like, I don't want to do this. And then with the Punjabi community, for the men, you overly masculine, very toxic, you know, and no one's speaking about their emotions. And the only people that were talking about religion were the sons and the gurus like inside the temple, and I need to fit that profile, or did I fit this profile. So I kind of had to carve out my own little experience. And that's why meditation was the safest space to do that in to learn, learn about myself from within first before bringing it out and represent presenting it to the world because I have no clue what to present. There's no narrative to connect with. And then when in this adventure, did you make the decision to move from the UK to Canada? Oh, so that was a whole like a chunk between. So at the age of 16, I stopped meditating. And it's funny thing, I had this conversation not long ago that I what happened at 16, I was like, Oh, I became sexually active shift that occurred in my life. And I was like, I started, you know, trying to find enlightenment within and I found it outside of meditation, I'm gonna have some fun now. And so I really got consumed by the experience of life. And then I went to school, and it was at 16, the first time in English school that you can actually choose what you want to study. I mean, you can choose your GCSEs and stuff, but they're really limited choice. But when you go to a levels and stuff before uni, you can choose what you wanted to study. So I chose like performance media. And then psychology has a psychology, I did a level psychology. And so for the first time I was engaged at school, I was engaged by the experiences I was having lost my braces lost all the puppy fat, you know, grew taller. So I was getting attention from all angles, even at school because I was engaging in the lesson. And then so I just became almost obsessed with that. And addicted to that. It's like validation everywhere. This is cool. Like, all of a sudden, I went from no friends to having friends, you know, being the outcast to being the one that everyone wants to hang with. And I let and I took that all the way up to the corporate ladder, like I just went to uni, got my job. And so and then I remember I was being a bit I was at this party once. And I mean, it was fun. Like it was a sex, drugs and music all the way up. It was fun. I won't lie. I mean, I'm not promoting it, but I ain't gonna lie. There was some good times. But I realized I was consumed by it. I was constantly chasing a high, I was constantly chasing some sort of thrill. And I was at this party once, and this huge fight broke out. And I remember it was that day, I had like this out of body experience, because it was a work event. And I thought I was gonna get fired. The next day, I was like, there's no way I could get away with this behavior. And this kind of was like observing this and not saying anything, and just being even being here as a professional member of this company. There's no way but because whatever happened, whatever, whoever went to see sign on the dotted line, and I got distribution deal or whatever. They were like, yeah, we're gonna promote you. And that's when I realized this is unhealthy for me. I'm getting rewarded for behaviors that are literally destructive, but it because it's feeding someone else's like pocket, it's time to move. And then my sister gave me the idea of Canada and I looked into it and it was the longest visa I could get. And I thought why not? I'm young. I'm going to try it out and go in a little bit of an Adventure. And then I fell in love with Canada. I just moved it was. And then I moved back to Canada I did start meditating. Again, I think I just got consumed. I mean, when I talk about the transcendental journey, there's this tier of awareness called accepting Maya, the illusion. And between the ages of 16 and 25, I was completely consumed by the illusion, I was completely gripped by the experience of life. And that was laid out for me, I was not thinking for myself, I was thinking in terms of how can I get rewarded again? How can I be validated again? How can I get a pat on the back? How can I get this reward? How can I get the next car, the next house, it was all like, it wasn't me, it was just, I was merely appeasing my body and using my body to appease others using my abilities to appease others, there was no connection or union or conversation about the soul of the souls desire. And that's a huge chunk of my truth that I've started to suppress. And when I moved to Canada, that started opening up a lot more.
And in, in looking at Buddhist psychology, Terry, you, you were falling into that trap, it sounds like of craving, of seeking of desire of attachment. And you'd forgotten, if you will, that the only place you can actually achieve any of that is within Does that sound like a bit of a bit of a lost track for Yeah, and I nears there,
I think do the beautiful thing is though, we're not talking about Buddhist philosophy. And when we when ever I'm in a class or teaching a lesson and someone talks about Buddhism to me, I studied a little bit of Buddhism. When I was younger, I read a little bit about that the Eightfold Path and stuff. And what I understood about the Buddha specifically is he had to go through all of those things in order to detach from he needed, he literally his only path to enlightenment was that he was willing to die for it. He was like To hell with this, like, I don't want anything, I've had everything, I've got everything, I'm still unfulfilled, I'm still not figuring out what the point of all this is, to hell with I'm not going to eat, I'm just gonna sit under this tree and you can take me, you know, I'm gonna stay here. And then he uncovered then he came upon enlightenment and boom, his life, everything made sense. For me, I liked a lot of subconscious context, I, I lacked any communication to communicate anything that I was feeling and thinking, I had no words to put the ideas I have in my mind together, and all of that attachment, all of that stuff. And you know, I could have been, I was meditating really well at the age of 12. But it wasn't enough to keep me keep me from being consumed. Why was that? Because I lacked life experience I lacked, I didn't even know how to be in the present moment. So then the moment I was pulled into the present, and I was like, Whoa, we can be like this half hour meditation, I'm gonna have some fun here. And then that's when I realized, Oh, the body, this is the life of the body. This is it. There's not much more to life than like what I'm experiencing in these kind of these these few years over this is me and my me and my reflecting when I'm in Canada now. And I'm like, What can I do in meditation now, I mean, I've experienced all the things I experienced as a kid, I experienced everything that I've experienced in life, and I was doing pretty well. And now here I am, at the age of 25, trying to think of meditation, trying to think about what youth meditation will have in my life. And that's when I started connecting to all this other stuff where it was understanding why the human experience was the way it was, I honestly don't believe I think I prefer attached to something, there's a reason to that, too. It's not as easy as saying, Oh, just breathe and detach from it. And now that's the technique I teach in the book. But you know, if you're consumed by an experience of life, than maybe there's a lesson in there for you to consume and learn. There's no way I can 100% guarantee there's no way I could be sitting here writing about meditation, talking about meditation, if I hadn't gone through those experiences, I mean, how am I supposed to relate to someone. And that's why a lot of the teachings don't come across from come back down from the mountain. Because a lot of the people you're teaching these lessons don't have the life experiences to be able to communicate these lessons and why they're there. And so yeah, um, as much as I would like to say it was like some this divine kind of, I became attached. And then I chose and I became awakened, and I let it all go. It's not the case, I'm still pursuing success. I'm still pursuing certain things. But the only difference is I have purpose and passion behind it. Now, I have a reason to do it. I have a reason to develop a certain specific life in order to bring my truth out into the world. I need the resources to present my creation.
That's a very good point, you reminded me as you said, it doesn't resonate when it comes down off the mountain? There's a story I'd heard about the Dalai Lama, and he was with a group of meditators in North America. And they were doing a q&a and one of the questions was, how do we overcome our inner critic, this self hatred, and when it was translated to them, he was looking at them very strangely. Because that Concept does not translate into their language. They don't understand how we can in North America and the Western world have this concept of an inner critic that hates ourselves. And so how can he teach you to overcome that inner critic? If he's never heard it? It's a bit bit of that mountain example. So at 25, though, you didn't jump right back into meditation, you started first life coaching, I believe. And shortly thereafter, you were doing extremely well. But it led to burnout is what I read. So what happened there? And how were you able to resolve that?
So it was, so I started at the same time I was life coaching, I did start meditating, but personally just for myself as a way to manage because, you know, when you get, especially when you're starting a new business, and it's constant rejection, no closed or closed or closed, you know, I was like, I need something to get my mind, right. And so I would just sit in meditation. And so as I was building my life coaching practice, I was building my meditation practice back up as well. And then my life coaching practice started to do really well. And I don't know, like I was taken on more than I should have done, I've never actually had to manage people like that before, especially with mental health is concerned, I never really knew how demanding people were going to be, because I used to offer like, email and text support as part of my packages. And so when you're working with like three clients a day, everyone texting you throughout the day, you're like, Whoa, when do I get time to actually figure out what I need to do and what my next step is, I was working all the time. And then it was seeing these patterns within my clients is when I started triggering more than meditation stuff, I'm seeing these kinds of mental health triggers that are causing, like, it was almost like I could see a wave with all of them, I knew exactly which client was going to start losing their mind. At this point, I knew exactly which client was going to need my attention at this point. It was like having all these kids and like paying attention to exactly all of their behaviors and why they behave the way they did. And then after having that for a little while, that's when I started opening up and started talking a little bit more about Okay, let's let's talk about how you're feeling. I never used to ask that question too much. Because it was always life coaching is about let's set the goal. Let's get you going. what's the what's the hurdle? That's the challenge that's got. And then I just started asking, because I knew at this point, I should really ask how they're feeling. Because I want to know if what I'm thinking my gut instinct is right. And then nine times out of 10, what I thought about what my client was going through was correct. I mean, granted, I had been working on for a little while. And then so they started opening up about anxiety, fear and stuff. And so I started saying, well, this is what I do. I mean, this is the challenge I was facing. And I meditated on it. And I was developing a solution to my problem. And then I brought the solution into life. And then boom, next problem occurs and repeat the process. And then and that's and the more they were started to see results, I started feeling more encouraged about meditating and my meditation practice again. And so I was meditating more and more and more, I was avoiding going down. Like, you got to understand when I was taught meditation, I was taught, you know, very kind of, like I was taught through religion, I was taught for spiritual texts. So none of what I was teaching in meditation, in my mind was evidence backed, you know, mine was like, my lessons were translated versions of what came down from the mountain as opposed to like apps or like, full on studies and whatnot. And so I never really thought to teach my, the way I was taught, I just thought that was just what my mom did to help me clear with bullying. And what I was going through was just childhood creativity. Like I'd lost touch with it for so long. But the more I realized that the my teachings and what I was offering, my clients was working for them, I was like, maybe I am onto something, maybe there is something to this ancient knowledge. So I just started practicing deeper and deeper and deeper. And then I was like, right, if this is true, and I wrote this in the book, if this is this is true, this meditation stuff is true, then I'm going to try and hit the moon like I did, when I was a kid, I want to try and detach, and practice my meditation and see if I can truly let go of this experience called life and make it to the moon and just sit on the moon. And feel that energy again. And lo and behold, it happened. And then I was like, Okay, I can I can see the next step. Now I can, you know, I'm my biggest like, I think everyone can write all my biggest critic, I'm, I will question my own beliefs before anyone else. I always do. I believe it's the healthiest thing that you can do, especially when you move navigating through life. I question I question a lot of it. And maybe that comes down to my mom always telling me to look for clues and not for bloody answers in books and texts and knowledge in the market always look for clues. So the moment I believe something to be true, the first thing I'll do is go into meditation in question and really challenge it until I really understand it, and why this belief came about. And so things like that enabled me to start opening up my meditation practice a little bit more and getting back into the state of meditation that I needed to. It was any I think, honestly, everything that that's going on in my life today and everything that's happened even with the meditation, even with the life coaching is just responding to it. And I think the skill, like even from 16 to 25 when I was stopped meditating, the skill I developed at a very young age was that ability to observe. I was observing my my mom and dad, or the parents or the elders in my family, the fragility from the man You know, the abuse and the fear from the women, you know, I was watching all of that at a young age, I was able to understand like, Oh, this is this is the truth that I can see that no one's talking about. And every kid has that I just sat with it, and I observed it. And then I carried on observing, and then I stopped meditating, and just let life handle take over control, you know, know that one girl was giving me some attention. So my boom, we're going to listen to her and do everything she says, and boom, next thing, you know, like, I'm going into this other relationship. And I'm just literally responding to everything that I observe and saying, with my coaching career, same with my meditation practice, everything that I'm seeing and witnessing, I'm just responding to accordingly. And I'm building that relationship with life. It's no magic power, necessarily. It's just this new witness, you observe, you pay attention, and the answers just revealed themselves, the steps you need to take
in something you said right there jumped out at me is a lot of kids do have that ability. They are curious, they are observant. And then at some point along the way, in their journey, Terry, they lose that. Why is that that the average person loses, whether it's the ability or the desire to be curious to be observant to try to zone in on what is real, versus what am I being told?
I think it's because of the examples we set. I mean, as young boys and girls were taught to behave exactly like the people that look like us. So I had a fortunate I was fortunate to even though my mother wasn't wasn't necessarily open in her life about things. She was just learning privately and things that she was curious about, she encouraged me to do so. So I had that lesson, I was constantly encouraged to be curious. And quite frankly, when, especially when I'm teaching kids meditation, I do notice, I've noticed a few things about the way we teach our kids and the way we operate in the world. Like for example, when do we ever ask kids Well, what do you want to learn, we just forced them into this school or this education system like, right, you've got to learn this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. And this, when I was a kid, I wanted to study stars. That's all I wanted to do. I wanted to look at the stars and study them. And there was no and I wanted to play the violin. But those were areas that were inaccessible for, you know, a little brown working class, a kid in the working class environment, they were a little over Hampton. Nevertheless, you know, it's still encouraged me to pursue other likenesses of that, I'm still carving out ways to find I'm moving to Nelson BC, and now we can see the stars at night, you know, it's still pushing me and guiding me in the direction that I want to pursue. I think the reason why kids are losing it, it's just the examples aren't there. I mean, the first book, I was gonna think I was gonna write kit meditation for kids book of like, teaching kids meditation isn't going to work until we get the adults meditating. You know, the Dalai Lama even once said that if we teach a generation of kids how to meditate, and we'll change the world, not true teach, if we encourage a generation of kids to express themselves, and demand to learn the things that they want to learn about the world, that's when we'll change the world, you know, then because then you'll teach them doesn't teach them to meditate to continue on that path. You know, we think meditation like I need, I'm really trying to encourage people to understand meditation as this. It's not this, it's not this thing. That's your answer to life. It's this tool to help you find the answers and help you discover the solutions. It's the processing. It's not like, I meditate Now, therefore, I'm enlightened. It's now I meditate so I can become more enlightened, so I can experience more of this thing called life. And if and the reason why I think we lose a lot of that childhood curiosity, is simply because the world tells us we can't be like, I was until 16. And I'll get to choose subjects that I wanted to learn that 16 years, maybe 14, give or take 14 years of being told what to do. And then the moment you do something for yourself, you're rebellious, you're, you're wrong, you're different. You're broken. No wonder why all these teenagers are depressed and who's telling them the truth, one of the one of the feedback, one of the feedbacks I got from teaching kids meditation, like you're so good with kids, how are you? So what? How do you teach these? How do you get these kids to sit for five minutes in meditation, I was like, because the first 45 minutes we're singing and dancing, I'm teaching them like to be expressive, and then teaching them how to be more expressive through meditation. I'm not teaching them to sit down and be quiet. I'm setting them to consciously process their thoughts and feelings, so they can communicate them. That's That's the difference. Like we ever want kids to just shut up and be quiet and Bs easy to deal with now. You just got to give them enough time and space to grow. There, your curiosity will nurture but I mean, you're a product of this world just as an ad just as I am. And, you know, it's taken us how long to start asking the questions we need to ask. How long has it taken me to have this conversation with my parents? I think I put a bloody book out.
So you hadn't had many of these conversations with mom and dad up until after the book came out?
Yeah, I think it's because I mean, I'm the youngest in my family of this four of us. And I'm not the baby, the kid brother. And so no one ever talks to me about what's going on all the time. I was always the last to find out. So and we've dads and Dad's had a few health issues recently. And I think we've just grown closer as a family. And I've been in Canada for so long to so it's like getting to know each other once again. And I mean, 18, I was like, I want to get out of Wolverhampton to get out of England. So I never really returned home for a lengthy amount of time. And the last couple of years, it's been quite, we've been writing the book as well, I've been talking to mom and dad a lot more than, hey, I'm putting this book out. So I'm going to talk about and so it's started a lot of conversation. And it's nice to hear from your parents. It's nice to get to know you. And that's shocking. It's like how many how many parents feel like they don't understand their kids or don't know their kids? How long would my mom and dad have gone feeling like they don't know who I am. You know, it sucks to not hear these things. And that's, that, to me says a lot about the state of the world and the way we live. Now I've got nieces and nephews, and I've talked to them openly every day about the craziness of my life, the good and the bad, and talk to them about the mistakes of me talking, I spoke speak to them about all the stupid and stuff and the embarrassing stuff. And I help them realize that just because I meditate just because I sound like an enlightened fool. I am far from it. You know, I am trying my best to teach this meditation stuff as a tool, I can't help it if you're seeing in the public eye that this is wise character in your family, and that I like my skinny jeans and my I'll wear my eyeliner when I go out to a club or party I want to have fun I want to enjoy this experience called life. You know, and it's it's fun to be able to have that energy around me in life. Now. It's nice, because you know what I had to learn at 25 I to relearn at 25 my nephew's 18. Now he's learning that now he's developing a mindset of what I'm at today, and very few. So that gives me a lot of hope for the future. And I've noticed as my life coaching career started building my clients, we're getting a lot younger, too. And I'm like, this is very interesting. The young people, it's always the young people of this world. Like I mean, you remember when you were a teenager, you probably had loads of answers, but you were told that you don't have any of the answers, you probably knew how to solve so many problems, but no one's listening to you. No one's asking you anything. So you just there feeling like a useless lump or whatever. And like so you rebel to get attention, you do all this other stuff. And that was me, I did the same thing we all did. And it's because no one's listening or paying attention to nothing. I've been so consumed about trying to, again, please the body and appease other people's bodies. And that's what we're taught. I did marketing at university and I learned so much about the human experience. I was coaching, I was transferring all these reasons I became successful in my life coaching practice, because there wasn't a traditional life coach. I was using all these business and marketing tools and reforming them into personal development ones, sort of this tool can turn a small little company to massive cooperation. Why can't you help us evaluate and reflect on our own lives? Alicia did a marketing audit of my own life. And I was like, boom, got a life coaching plan. They got a life coaching program that teach people and it was phenomenal. But yeah, I don't know that well is a very bizarre experience when when you see how it's currently operating, and no one's meditating w my mind like no one knows meditation is
very few people actually practice it in the in the West, even though, you know, I'd say 30 - 40 years ago, we had some brilliant practitioners who went east and brought their work back in I know everyone says mindfulness is all the rage. In reality, there's not that many people that practice it, maybe maybe 5% of people.
Yeah, well, mindfulness is such a counterintuitive process. If you really think about it. I mean, most people who find their way to meditation, find a way to meditation because of mental health issues. And if your mental health issues are triggered by the present moment, why on earth are you focusing on the present moment, it's counterintuitive. You're trying to escape the thing and here you are constantly forced into this voice in here saying, pay attention, be aware and I like I have been paying attention I have been been aware, ain't getting nowhere. So and then that's the misc and in mindfulness is an integration. It's not necessarily a meditation within itself. Think of it like this, you're meditating for a few hours. Before you awaken into the world, you've just got all this new knowledge that you have access to, in between you breaking your meditation and awakening up to basically the point where you stop meditating and you open your eyes, there's a little bit in there called integration. That's where mindfulness starts. Because what you're doing is is mindfulness is bridging the awareness that you've raised in meditation. And basically bringing that awareness and being mindful of what you do in life with that awareness in tech. Let's just say you meditation you meet your Creator, while you're just gonna open your eyes and go about your life the way you were before. No, you need a little process, think of what do I say next? What do I do next? and mindfulness. But, and what blows my mind is people forget a lot of these techniques that are being taught to the west is designed to appease the western mind. The Western mind is closed in by ideology and lots of very intricate marketing. And the eastern mind is following suit now but Prior to that, like spirituality reigned in all over the world, it was like your religion, your your doctrine, whatever that rain, we had that higher power. Granted, they got branded as this thing called God. But now that we've kind of man has become God now in the world as we see today, all you need is a few 1000 followers and boom, look, I'm a deity, you know, it's that energy that we have in the world and that we're lucify that we alluded to, and like you got to understand a Buddhist monk, if you're going to a Buddhist or monk or someone on a mountain to get a meditation lesson, all they want is your paper so they can do their work. If I'm going if I'm going to become a monk, I'm literally trying to build a life that's completely conflict free. I'm trying to build a life where I can just transcend, I just want to go and transcend. I want to be able to move consciousness beyond my body and leave. That's why I don't want to interact with the world below. Not saying that I'm higher or lower. It's just that I don't want any conflict. I don't want any conscious contamination. I don't want any conflict to detach from when I'm trying to go higher. And here I am trying to deal with this conflict. What's the quickest way to deal with that conflict? Right? Oh, there's some people who want to learn how to meditate. While we're doing that every day? Well, let's teach them a few techniques so that we can build the resources to continue our practice, you know, the word This is how you're gonna win. Sometimes the western mind is when I start speaking to, to an I'm product of the Western mind as well. And I realized these influences within myself is, you know, you go you see a spiritual enlightened teaching, you see them as wise, but you rarely see them as highly intellectual, you see them as wise and intelligent, and you understand that they have knowledge or knowledge. But there's less there's an agreement that we kind of action speak for everyone that even I was doing, like, when when I was younger, my mom would send me to all these pundits and palm readers and mnemonics to stuff like, Who are these weird people in rags and stuff telling me what to do with my life. And that, you know, my train is much nicer than kind of ego just kind of takes over. And if I'm trying to teach, and like, you come, see, let's say, someone comes to my practice and wants to learn enlightenment, but they can't get past, you know, a problem that they've been holding on to for six years of their life. People say, Oh, yeah, I want to experience enlightenment, but they can't get past that farmers that they had from childhood, I'm not going to teach you the techniques to help you get enlightened, I'm going to teach you the techniques, I'm going to help you overcome that childhood trauma instead. And the thing is, most people who are who are willing to pay like, literally are willing to pay for some sort of less than some sort of it becomes I know that transaction gets blurred, and it becomes this thing as well, like, do it. You know, someone has this, they're one good, the teacher has the goal, and the student has their call. As long as the teacher tells me I've passed, I'm good. And so the teacher teaches you something that you can pass, even though your state of yoga, no one's teaching yoga properly. Everyone's too busy focusing on the exercise in the fitness not realizing that Yoga is a practice which enables you to meditate better enables you to breathe, build that relationship with breath so that you can hold a longer breath and go into faith transcendence. No one knows well, I wouldn't say no one knows. But the yoga, the yoga is happening to meditation, too. It's becoming this commercial, this idea, this thing that appeases the body, how can you teach someone a technique and expect them to get the results that you're promising them like transcendental mindfulness, all of these are just techniques designed to make meditation easy, like the yoga is like everything is just like wrapped up. And like here, now you're meditating. I do this and now I'm meditating checkbox done.
it's not. It's not a meaty education. It's, I mean, we're talking in terms of experiences that you can't have with your body. It's like, would you call it a MCmeditation? So as an example, the A lot of people say that for certain martial arts, you know, though they call them MCdojos. Because they are really just trying to brand brand brand commercialized, commercialized, commercialized get a bunch of get a bunch of Westerners in teach them martial arts and get them out, get them back up the ladder and out they go, but it's really not fundamental meditations. It's really not true. Sensei disciple, we're going deep.
It's and you got to understand as well like a lot of these a lot of these resorts or retreats and stuff, you know, how many hundreds of years of abuse that they're coming out of out of like, from colonization from all of these experiences that they had to Endor that ancestor like imagine it you got this point where you're, you know, accessing ancient wisdom and then boom, you know, they've taken meditation yoga, right? The schools in India the take meditation and yoga rather, like that's what got taken out of India and got replaced with like PE and stuff with things that don't serve the body and mind you really think there's like nuts that went on for hundreds of years. So the community that was like spiritual and or giving and teaching meditation got smaller and smaller and smaller, the resources got lesser and lesser and lesser. There was a time in India, I'm sure where and based on these stories I grew up hearing about where you could never see a poor monk you could never see Poor spiritual person, they will always, you know, not that they wanted it, but they were completely gifted in, in gold. Like there's still stories of all these temples are laced with gold underneath in the basements and things because they were just being gifted them. Where do we put all this material stuff that we don't need to check it in the basement, check it into the temple, that they create temples out of the gold, or literally the Golden Temple. That's what gold was used for to celebrate spirituality not for wealth, and then that obviously changed with colonization and stuff. So the stuff that's being taught, I'm not saying it's all bad, there's a lot of great stuff coming out there. But let's just be realistic. Why are you learning meditation from a former monk, there's your clue. Because if you really understood meditation, I'm pretty sure it commit to the practice really wanted to meditation is, it's hard. It's hard to do when all you understand is the body and all you know about life is the body. If you have to go all the way to India, to find your soul, find your spirit, you are lost the moment you know, you've got that. And again, that whole spiritual experience that people we have in India, kind of totally ranting and raving, right? Because I'm just thinking of all these conversations I've had, but it is it's this is I'm listening to so many people who I went to India and had a spiritual awakening as well. What did you do? So yeah, I got off the plane. And I went through all of this. And then it got to the ashram and I felt at peace. I was like, Yeah, well, there's your spiritual awakening your senses were so overwhelmed. And you were so overwhelmed that you if you never got to that ashram, or that place, or that place where you were getting fed and treated like a king, you never got to that place you would have left India A long time ago, you would have been too much. But you before that got to the ashram got fed got treated like a king and made it through and came back home. It's it's like that within itself is your pilgrimage. You went through all that chaos, and you made it to that unknown place in the middle of nowhere. And then they treated you like a king and you arrived and you felt like you belong? Well, yeah. Cuz you paid them. And now you're coming home. And you're like feeling enlightened. But tell me all your problems to learn? Have you overcome? Are you enlightened? Or are you just wearing these wonderful loose clothing now just to kind of be a part of the brand that you've just adopted? Like you these are the truths that people don't want to hear these the truth that like, for example, when I'm teaching meditation, I'm rocking up in my blazers and rocking up in my tires on my shirts. And I'm like, meditation teaches you to be an individual to really be expressive and be yourself to not associate yourself to any material illusion, except for the fact of how you want to decorate your body and decorate your life. How do you want to express yourself in the world? And you know if that that core lesson isn't taught, good luck trying to get to the other stuff? If it's, I don't know, man, it's it drives me a little bit bonkers. When when I hear the western perspective of meditation, not saying that the eastern is any better, but yet, it's easy to meditate. When you're at Silent Retreat, or you're at the ashram, it's, it's a little more difficult to meditate and be mindful. When you're living life, when it's chaotic around you. That's what you need to practice, that everyone wants to go away to retreat. They want to go away to retreat, and then come back and forget everything they learn.
Yeah, what are you doing? So that you can have that stressful job so that you can maintain your family so that you're not yelling at your kids? What are you doing to practice that? That's a bit of the gist of what I'm hearing.
Yeah, it's literally that whole idea of like, when I when people call went out when I was teaching meditation classes before COVID, I would say I'm you're not paying me to facilitate a meditation class. That's what I'm teaching you how to meditate. go meditate in your own time. Why would you spend money to sit in silence? Why do you spend money on me to witness you sitting in silence and meditation, it makes no sense to me. Take the lessons and apply them into your life. And going to a retreat, not saying there's nothing wrong with going to retreat, but let's call it what it is, is a break from your life. And if you need a break from your life, then you need to face a bigger truth, your life eating right? change it if you've got the guts in the world to do it. No meditate on developing the guts in the world to do it. Don't meditate on trying to change your life. That will happen after meditate on the mindset and the solution that you need. And then implement the solution. The first solution doesn't work, meditate, get another solution, get back to it. That's why I love teaching entrepreneurs, the mindsets already built for meditation, there's gonna take that stuff and put it in their mind.
It was a brilliant point right there. If you're going to a Silent Retreat, to get a break from your life. The issue isn't the retreat. It's your life. Your life was a very good observation. Terry. Let's take a turn here. COVID you just mentioned it, you and I have both written that as a result of COVID isolation, financial repercussions, lock downs, there are already and there will be more challenges with mental health, anxiety, depression, ultimately we are in will see increases in suicide. Why do you think That is and what can people be doing about it when they listen to this show?
COVID. Right, this is the next threat. You'll notice from the moment you were breathing to the to today, there's always some sort of threat to your, to your existence for your way of life. If it wasn't COVID, it was a lack of money. If it wasn't lack of money, it was your boss, if it wasn't your boss, it was this if it wasn't if it was that there's always something coming for your life. Granted, even if we were living in utopia, there's still something coming for your life because this life is not an infinite experience. It's finite, ended about 80 years give or take, right? So ultimately, those states of if you're feeling this, I'm gonna ask this question in two different ways that you can you can you either dealing with the response to COVID. And being totally basically, this is what the world is going to be like. Now, it's just another situation that you can't handle. So boom, I'm out. I'm done. I'm going to close off, I'm going to check out of this system, I hate it, the world is gone to pot. It's no point there's no room, there was no room for me before COVID after COVID there's definitely no room for me now. So what's the point, and that's when I'm like, you know what, that's when you should start meditation, if you're willing to lose and relinquish it all, the best thing for you is to meditate why. And I've taught I've taught several people who are suicidal how to meditate. And again, easy people to teach how to meditate, why the important rule is detachment, you've got nothing to lose, and you're willing to jump off that bridge or you know, get that no foul and flip those risks you've all willing to do what you say you're going to do when it comes as a response to this COVID. I was like, before you do that, let me show you a different way to do it. I just want you to sit quietly. And anything that comes into mind, just reject it. don't even want it. As far as you're concerned. You're leaving life anyway. So anything that comes in your mind, any fear, any doubt, any beautiful notion of hope and joy, let it go. Just let it go. Don't want to be here keeps tweeting back. Oh, you're hungry, you responded to the hungry, do you want to eat or I thought you were willing to die five minutes ago, reject it keep rejecting keep rejecting and watch where your mind goes, watch what you realize, and watch what you learn. Because what happens is you let it all up, because things that are driving people to those really dark dire choices or ideas or, or responses to what's going on in the world. Just because they're ultimately attached to something that needs to be that there needs to be letting go like this, there's an attachment, rooted in all misery, I can pretty much guarantee most people who are dealing with any sort of mental health issue is because they are stuck with the body, they only know the body they own, they can't see life beyond, you know, you know, Eastern practices, suicide is the most pointless and childish thing you can do, because it's like, oh, you're only getting rid of your shell, and you only get rid of your body, you're gonna have to repeat this whole thing over again, over and over. And that's reincarnation I'd rather know that neither one believes in such in such in such value. But But let me put it this way, look at how much data how much you had to evolve as a human being to be able just to do this, you know how much data is in your hand. So we can move like this and what needs to go on for your hand to do this. That's all the data or the cells in this hand or in your body have gone on a journey to pick up data to be able to do all this and create this in a very specific way. If you think that you just came into this world and had this body and this body was definitely ready to go. What's the point in believing in evolution, then yeah, this is the only experience you're ever going to have. You always exist as humans always existed from the beginning of time. In that case, then it's irrational. So anyone who's thinking, yeah, this world is tough, it's too hard. I'd say leave it behind them. That's why I say don't be mindful, go into your meditation, just consciously leave it behind. You don't want to deal with COVID. don't deal with COVID. You don't want to deal with the problems, don't deal with the buttons, keep going higher. keep taking consciousness to a higher realm, reject anything that's trying to grip you and pull you back, reject anything that's trying to grip you to make you feel like you've got to leave. It's like this opposite way instead of honestly, and this is going to really want to put a disclaimer here. And I'm not promoting this at all. But I was speaking to one person A few years ago, and I said, Well, instead of jumping off a bridge, just meditate. So just do that. Instead, just reject everything. Just sit in meditation. Just close your eyes, keep reading patient breath ahead of every thought feeling. So I promise you, you will arrive at a point of clarity, where you will realize, Oh, this was just a minor stress that I'm responding to that it's gone bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. You're what you're learning to do in meditation is you have this overbearing experience that's really making life very difficult. And you're chipping away at it. You let go and you keep going out until you hit the root of the problem. And then he started realizing like this tiny little thing in my mind in my life is mushrooming out and creating this massive it's just Layer Layer, Layer Layer Layer that I mean meditation you Bringing that bringing that down to that to that core root of the problem. And once you get to that core root of the problem, you have your understanding, the only question you need to ask at that point is, what's the source of that creation? Why was that there? How did that come about? And now you're processing consciously, you're dealing with the thing that you're supposed to go to therapy for. You're dealing with the thing that you're supposed to navigate through. And if suicides and stuff are all going up, I think it is because it's, we live in a very convenient time, we literally COVID shown us how convenient life is. You need food, get it delivered, you need this, get it delivered, anything you need comes to your front door. Now, life couldn't be any more convenient. And therein lies the problem. You now have no reason to excuse like everything is come to you if you want it. Life has become the most easiest. I mean, I think if you look throughout history, life has never been easier than it has been today. We'll factor me in you're having a conversation like this is incredible. Right? So it's easy. It's never been it's been his life has become so convenient. So what does one do with a convenient life and no purpose? This will make anyone depressed? Why am I here? For if everything like, I'm just here, why am I here? Just to eat? and shit and sleep and shower? And repeat? Yeah, that's not the definition of insanity. That's what's driving everyone mad. Is this not sure why they're doing this? I'm not sure why they're here and COVID for many, many individuals, it's, it's triggering that like, Oh, I guess this is the thing. This is what I'm gonna have to do. And this is not everyone. This is the I'm just speaking to just the conversations I've had, obviously, I can't speak for the entire population of the world. But the thing is, once that convenience is threatened, what else is there to live for? It is like, we've got everything that we ever need most of us anyway. And even then, you know, if that's now getting threatened, I don't know, I think it's just the lack of having any alternative way of existing. We're constantly told how to live or concert told how to be never been told what to wear, how to where to navigate, and how to interact with people. That was our freedom before. Now, we don't have that anymore. So it's just getting more and more, we're relinquishing more power and life is becoming more convenient. And there's people who can't be you just it's difficult to handle that. I don't know, it's a big topic
to really wrap up in a little bit. Yeah, I'll throw something at you and see what you say. And because I heard it a bit in what you said, and it's an in a bit of how I've been thinking and part of it's also a bit of a difference between Eastern psychology, let's call it meditation, mindfulness, Buddhist psychology versus Western psychology. And when you think about a lot of mental health issues, a lot of it can generally come down to in you were describing this is, is really flawed thinking. And so our version of reality, what we're attached to, isn't actually reality, right? I'm tied up and attached to something that's untrue. And I just keep ruminating on it. And when you think about the pre COVID world, it might not have been great, but so much of what people did, Jerry Seinfeld talked about this on comedians, and going for coffee in cars going for coffee, there's so much of what we do is just passing time. And so pre COVID, you were able to go visit people, you were able to go to sporting events, you're able to go to a concert, you were able to go to this, this, this and this, and what that was really doing was allowing you to stop thinking about that flawed thinking that was in your mind. Now you have COVID in you're isolated, you're alone with those flawed thoughts. And they're spinning day in, day out what you would teach Well, let's start with Western psychology, Western psychology would say, Well, why do you have that thought? Let's go back to your childhood. Let's figure out what happened to create that thought in you. And let's work with your inner child to make make you don't see it that way anymore. Whereas Buddhist psychology or mindfulness would say, let's just fix your thinking, let's just learn to let it go.
I don't think I even that thought mis-translated, I think in what in eastern psychology or Eastern approach approach to that wouldn't necessarily be in a Western you've got a well let's what's driving that thought? What experiences drive from a thought in eastern ob? Who is driving that thought more? So how are you identifying self as body, his body having that thought? is are you existing as mind is mine having that thought? Is the soul having that thought who was around? The only thing missing between a healthy mind and an unhealthy mind is realization, Self Realization, understanding how one exists a self? How does one identify itself and in western psychology and Western philosophies, or limited to the five physical senses, that's why there's so much technological advancement and scientific breakthroughs in Western philosophy and Western approaches in Western culture, because we're obsessed with creating something that We can tangibly experience whereas Eastern culture, it's like, well, what do we need to create? What do what needs to be created in this world? And let's start there. Is that whole? He says, raising beyond your five physical senses and realizing, Oh, where's this threat coming? What's it what this threat to and ultimately in Eastern, I've noticed, actually, this is one thing I actually noticed growing up is at home we were never taught to fear death, we was never anything that we learned about India, about Punjabi culture, about sea culture, about Hinduism about Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, any of those Eastern philosophies that I understood not one of them made me fear death, they were like embrace it, your journey began law, this is your life, enjoy and make it you know, this is your 80 years to this is your dream here, this is your present moment be here. Whereas when I went to school and started learning about Christianity, for example, hell death fear speaker via you know, his constant to be afraid of death, I think in western psychology, if we just change that approach, and be like, okay, so you're dying, like the biggest threat you can make to someone to get help is to kill yourself in eastern suicide was not a common thing. Growing up, I never really understood suicide until I like I started branching out into like, the western experience of the world, like making friends in Western culture. In Eastern mental health wasn't an issue, or you got a mental health issue, go to the temple, you got a mentor, you're struggling in your mind, go speak to your school, speak to the spiritual leader who can actually teach you, you know, the things you need to recalibrate your mind and realize and teach you to go above the body. So and it's hard for me because I'm a product of both. So it's constantly that battles between challenging one or the other. And the beautiful thing is there's benefits in each of them that are complete benefit, if they just started working together. Instead of opposing each other, we would have a beautiful experience of life. But all the wet, the western approach is to impose ideology, the eastern approach is to challenge ideology. So when one force is imposing something, and another force is challenging it, there's going to be constant conflict. So how do we move past that
there's more and more programs, and I've got a book up on my shelf, I turned and looked at as we were talking about, there's more and more programs that are looking to fuse East meets West with psychology, whether it's the Integrated Studies, whether it's Naropa, university, mindfulness combined with Buddhism, as an example, more and more schools looking to bring the east and west together and say, hey, look, it's not just psychology. There's also this, this this ness that can be used to help people. And so I think we will see more and more evolution of that with time. But let's, let's dive into into some of the book and let's maybe take our listeners through some of your concepts in teaching meditation. So the first thing for our listeners when they're looking to set up an environment to be conducive to meditating, is there anything you suggest that they look to do
depends on what level of practice they're at. If they're in a really beginning stages, like if you're brand new to meditation, you want to get into meditation, create a space where you can consciously observe. And I mean that in a more of a literal sense, like literally get a get a, get a seat, or a sofa and stuff and position it against a window that you can look outside, start your meditation, their practice, and train your mind to observe, get a cup of tea, get a blanket sit in your cushion, and just look outside that window. And be very aware that you are observing something, that's where I would say anyone start just create a little space like that, where you can just sit and consciously observe. When it comes to meditating a little bit more formally, I highly recommend creating a very kind of low air space that doesn't have too many distractions. And I always say go spa like go relaxation into it. You know, put some light music in the background, maybe change the lighting a little bit. And you know, if you really need all of these, because these are for like the early stages of your meditation practice, you're going to need these things to kind of help you ease into it. It's kind of like why you need to go to the retreat, and you have to, you know, create that little retreat space within your own home if that's what you need to separate. But the ultimate tool is training and I highly recommend to start your meditation practice just go navigate through the world and see how long you can last before you something takes your breath away. whether it's good or bad. Consciously breathe for like the entire day and realize oh, so and so you lost track of breath because you were in conversation. Oh yeah, look at that sign. Look at this distraction. Look at that. How many things are constantly taking your work attention away from your breath? So that's where I would say start your meditation practice and start developing your your being the whole world is your meditation studio. The whole world is your meditation space. If you want to start at home, make it relaxing and make it as comfortable as possible. Avoid damn dark rooms. think logically, how can I keep my body in this state comfortably. If you're sitting on a cushion, make sure it's comfortable comfort, like the human body. And this is, again, when teaching meditation is, the human body just needs to be in a place where it can just sit and think, you know, just separate, all you need to do when it comes to meditation is separate your living from your thinking, you know, you can't observe through your five physical senses and process all at the same time. I mean, it well, because you'll trigger certain subconscious, like meaning like, that's the chair, that's the light, that's this, that's that. But ultimately, life is to be had at the five physical senses right there, with your eyes with your sense of smell, you're hearing your taste, and you're supposed to engage all of those things. And when they're falling engaged, you're present, if you're trying to think at the same time, you're trying to experience and process and you're doing two things at once, and it's gonna get harder and harder and harder and harder to so just create a space for yourself where you can sit and process consciously observe, just to stop and not do nothing. But to do do nothing by just going to be very to be here. But just to do nothing with your body like to do to be able to be in a comfortable enough position to sit and be like, Okay, I'm just gonna think about this. It's the equivalent of when life gets hard, you need to go out for a walk, free that for yourself in some form, or fashion in your life, create an opportunity where when life got tough, and you needed that break, just to go for a walk to clear your head, that's, that's the energy you need behind your meditation setting in your meditation space, a place where you can just be and not be disrupted an experience of life. Just be like, Okay,
perfect. So create your little spa like environment that allows you to do that. And now we're going to talk about your five step, process, not five step, but the five keys for you and meditating. You talk about breath, or breathe, position, lock, meditate, and integration. So for breath, you talk about the importance of a control breath, can you let us know what you mean by that concept of control breath?
It's very scientific, actually, do you know how inside everyone has done this, I think everyone's done this at school. You know, in science, you you're learning to grow plants. And you have that one control, which has everything perfect. And then you have all these other variables that you mess up, I hate I hate take the light away from this one, take the water away from this side, you know. So your control breath is indicative of your control state. So think of it like this, you're because meditation can take you to so many different places, you only going to believe me, once you experience it for yourself. What I'm teaching with breathing, is basically learn how to restore control, whether it's mental health issues taking you over, or whether it's, you know, some experience in your mind that's just like so radical and random, that you just take him away, you need to be able to pull yourself out of it and restore your control state of being How do you measure your control state of breathing, being you breathe with control, when you're breathing consciously and with control everything else in life comes second? Everything literally because you have to breathe before you can do anything else. So if something's taken your mind where you're feeling like you're mentally challenged, or so your stress and anxiety or fear comes up. If you're breathing, you're not dealing with the fear, you're breathing, you're back to your control state. So then you can go to your fear, like Okay, I see you and pull yourself out and really get to a state of control and know what's missing. what's what's happening between this control state and that what's missing what's occurring. And there you raise awareness and that awareness, then you pull it in and you integrate it in. It's it's a whole process, but that control breathing is just to restore your control state of mind. So you can always return to a state of equilibrium within or without depending on how you've integrated and so controlled breathing, where your control breath may be different for everybody on what their control breath is 100%. I say? Think of it like this, if you could only breathe one way for the rest of your life face. That's it. You can choose everyone choose your breath. This is the only way you can breathe for the rest of your life. How would you breeze? Would you be fast? Like that? Would you think that's a sustainable breath? Would you breathe long and deep and slow, and you control breath evolve? As you evolve your grow? It's like your basic of laws. The first thing the doctor checks when you're in a hospital. What's the first thing the doctor checks when you are born? What's the first thing you do in, in life you breathe. So you're constantly returning to that very raw experience of life. And if you're talking about transcendence, you need to be able to understand your breath to a point because transcendence is really locating the source of it. Where is this breath coming from? Where is this product coming from? Where is it and why Am I breathing? Those are the questions that are going to get you to enlightenment not seeking God and
Terry, have you read much or done much work with box breathing? And is it you know if if someone if that's the breath that gets them to the spot that gets them calm? Are you fine with that being the control breath?
Can you do that for the rest of your life?
I often find so I've realized I've somewhat chosen that for myself. Control breath. So when I do meditation, I go to I go to box breathing. If I'm in meetings, and I'm conscious of my breath to your point of being conscious of it, I choose that as my form of breathing. And so it's whenever I'm conscious of my breath, I go automatically to box breathing, as an example,
box breathing. So what's going to, as you evolve your meditation practice, box, birth is a detachment, exercise, breathe, hold, exhale, hold while you're learning meditation is what you're doing in those peaks. And so when you're at the top of your breath, when you're holding it, what are you doing in that peak? What's happening in that peak, there's an exercise I teach, whereby I say, if you take one conscious inhale all the way up, as if you're with your breath, you're climbing a mountain, to the top of the mountain. Once you're at the top of the mountain, think about what you want from life in that moment, how much how long do you need to hold your breath to understand what it is. And that's how you learn if you know, if you ask them too much from life, if you're at the top of the mountain, you're struggling to breathe, you're asking for way too much from life, come back down and start again. And that's where the box breathing, kind of, it'll spoil you. It'll spoil you. It's a great start. But you want to be able to just go and know exactly how to restore your mind at the top of inhalation know exactly what state of mind do, you need to arrive at by the end, by the time you finish breathing, holding your breath, that's a great I honestly love box breathing, because it helps, especially when I'm teaching new meditators how to meditate box breathing is just a way to because there's a lot of activity consuming you whether it's out here in the world, or in your mind, that that hold, it's almost like, it's like restricting life from that experience. That's restricting life from what I was reeling with. So as a result is effective. But if you're, you're having to restrict life from what you're experiencing, then guess what you're gonna have to change what you're experiencing.
It's a very good point. And it's exactly what you say is I have a very active mind. And so what I've realized, when you say just concentrate on the breath, that can be hard. When I say, Okay, I'm going to get, I'm going to do my deep breath. And then in that space, where I'm holding, I'm either going to do now may pad may harm, or I'm going to do metta meditation, and then I'm going to breathe out. And then I'm going to rinse and repeat over and over. And I can't think if I'm focused on that, whether it's the mantra or the metta meditation,
so you're separating your life experience from your breathing. So as to so what you're essentially doing is you're replacing an experience with an experience, as opposed to saying, Yeah, the breathing is the experience and everything comes second, if you're using your breathing as a separate tool from what you're experiencing in life, what's happening is you're just like, let's say your stress and your breath are equal and the same now. It's like I'm checked out of the stress, and I'm now I'm focused on breath, and my breath is now my priority. I'm doing this process. So I can return to my stress, is that what's happening? Because if that's happening, that again, is counterintuitive to a meditation, you breathe, and then you get to a point of control where you're like, Okay, stress, I'm looking at you, I'm breathing this way. And you're stopping me from breathing this way. Why? Why do I need to stop? And why do I have to strangle you, I'd have to take life away from what is it about this experience that is making me having to go to this ritual, when it comes to my breath, breathing is the most simple, most basic thing you can do in your life. And if it's over complicated, if you have to breathe, like literally control breathing, you're just an inhale and exhale completely through your nose, why through your nose is your primary breathing tool for your body. If there's problems here, then you've got to resolve that problem first, before going anywhere else. Once you're able to breathe consciously, you are constantly measuring. And sometimes it's that fear as well knowing because the conscious breath is your is the only tangible truth that you have is your breath, really, you know, your beliefs, your ideas and stuff, they're you around, there's based on what you've experienced is there in your subconscious mind. They're all illusion, the only tangible evidence of life we have is breathing. And so if we're complicating that aspect of it, it's going to be even more difficult to navigate through to higher states of awareness, even move past the problems that we're dealing with, we just focus on sustaining a type of breathing that just feels comfortable, that doesn't feel like it needs to be restricted. Because essentially, that's what you're doing. You're restricting your breath when you're in comparison to the experience that you're having. So there's something in your life or something that's occurring in your life where you have to literally restrict your breath to restore control. That's, that's a clue. That's a huge clue. And it's what you're doing in that in that it's why you're holding your breath or why you feel your need to hold your breath is the first place where you would look because there's a there's a problem here. I can't feel as if I can just quickly come down this mountain. After take a moment up here before I come back down. Why? And I need to take a moment before I come back up Why? And start asking those questions. And you know it you start realizing Oh crap, there's some stuff I need to deal with. I love it. I'm gonna start asking those questions tonight for you might be able to see it because you can see on the camera the other downside of the box breathing, I was doing it in the steam shower and I actually passed out and fell on the tiles and crack the head open. So That's, that's that's the scar. So maybe I learned maybe I should reduce the box breathing. My box breathing didn't work in that incident Terry bugs breathing is good when Think of it like this, when you're breathing, you're giving life to something when you're not breathing, you're taking life away, you got to figure out what you're taking away life away from
that was extremely insightful. I like it. So my work is to figure out what I'm taking life away. And I think I think I have some concepts of what it is. So I'll explore that. And so the next thing you talk about is position, the importance of an upright spine. And you also talk about the benefits of yoga for improving your ability to hold your meditation position, I threw two or three things that you right there, but can you unpack all of those for the listeners on setting up their body position, position,
the reason why positioning comes second after breathing, is because think of it, if you found your control breath or your control state of being, you need to position your body to sustain that way of breathing, just like you need to position your life to sustain that way of breathing. Just like you need to build your life to sustain that way of breathing, you literally breathe and you build the life around it. So it's no different in your meditation position. So you breathe, to get in control, and then you position to get comfortable. And then talking more about that position, the upright and self supported spine. So the importance of that is to remain conscious, the moment you rest, when you lie down, congratulations, you're going into a state of unconscious processing, also known as sleep or napping or resting. So keeping the spine upright and self supported keeps your your body conscious enough enable in order to store the conscious processing that you're doing. It's the difference between, it's kind of like putting your computer in standby. It's not doing everything it needs to do. But it's the most of the activity your computer's doing is off, it's just focused on the bare minimum to keep the data flowing and keep you in place. And this is where it gets really esoteric because we're talking about the knowledge of your chakras as well as need to be able to flow through your spine, the spine is basically think about it, what's the one thing that connects head all the way to the rest of your body just fine. There's a lot of data being channeled up and down that back of yours. And you want to make sure that the wire is not not like you know, not constricted, there's no data, it's like you don't want any of that data to be collected. You don't want any of the wiring to break, you want to be able to process information all the way from root to crown quite simply, and yoga. So what happens is, let's say you're meditating for two minutes, and you notice that you get an ache now you know how to guide your yoga, you know, I need to figure out how to resolve this ache, lower back pain, I can't sit in meditation because of lower back pain. Well, now you know what yoga you need to do to resolve that back pain you were literally the thing is a beautiful thing about position. You can learn more about your life just by doing repeating those two steps breathe and position. Because you're learning now, how does resort solve a problem that's restricting you from experiencing what you need to experience. You know, if you're struggling to sit in meditation, because of some sort of issue with your body, then your first solution that you need to implement in your life is to resolve the situation that's keeping you from sitting in meditation, resolve that issue, listen to that pain point. Consciousness is obviously moving there for a reason. That's all that pain is it's just consciousness moved to wherever the problem is in your body. The human experience couldn't be any easier. You know, when you need to eat, you know, when you in pain, you know, when you need to drink, you know, when you're cold. You know, when you're tired, you know all of these things, you just got to listen and pay attention and do the next thing that is follow forward. You know, if you want to get out of dire situations like homelessness and stuff, follow with the basics what I need to wait, I got to figure that out as I need to sleep, we're gonna forget that at first, you know, don't worry about like, the clients who have fallen from the room like I'm thinking of your life coaching clients who have like, hit me hit the top, and then maybe it's a rock bottom again. And I'm like, Oh, I see. So you're scared. You said you've lost everything. Have you lived over with it? Are you eating? Have you lost all that too? Have you lost the ability to sense pain? Have you lost your ability to breathe, you haven't lost everything, you've just lost all the material illusion that kept, you know, you going to have a reason to live, pay attention. There's a reason why you lost it. There's a reason why it had to go because clearly there's something much greater for you to find something much more useful for you to create. Honestly, the truth will never fail you, you will never fail you. And even just that step position teaches you that breathe, listen to your body, what does your body need, it's your one tool that enables you to do this thing in the first place, you're going to bypass that to go into enlightenment, then you still take a moment, take care of your body, listen to the pain points and evolve your yoga accordingly.
So as a simple example, I'm meditating, left leg keeps going to sleep. Okay, well, is there a tightness in your hips? Is there something wrong with your X or Y in your sitting position all day at work and so should you be doing yoga on how to open up the hips on on how to improve the flexibility of the leg joint so that when you sit Your legs stops going to sleep. And you may maybe someday can achieve lotus position. Okay, that's a very good point. And
so think of it like this. Here's consciousness at the top of my head, I can only make it this far before my leg falls asleep, fix your leg. Now I can go this far, Oh, another pain, fix that. Now I can go this while you're raising consciousness and awareness. If you want to process your deep childhood traumas, for example, and you can't get past your leg falling asleep, probably needs to fix that first. Maybe that's the reason why you can't process all of that. Are there any forms of yoga that you specifically recommend to pursue that assist in working on the body, the Kriya Yoga is a yoga called Ashtanga Yoga, I can never pronounce it right. But Kriya Yoga is probably the best ones because you basically create the yoga based on the pain points that you're experiencing. For example, if you got tightness of the hips and your whole Yoga is about that. Let's create yoga Kriya KIY a, it's akin to like Kundalini Yoga, but Kundalini Yoga, you're talking more kind of meditating to reach states of ecstasy and all this wonderful third eye opening stuff which completely pointless if you're struggling in life, you know, Kundalini is like your, it's like a lifestyle that's you know, moving towards bodies, monk guru level of life, and you kind of like I've done with the whole nine to five, I'm done with the whole making money material. It's time to get some transcendent from the boom, you start with your Kundalini Yoga, and away you go. But basic Kriya Yoga is Ashtanga Yoga is really good. Any just, just honestly, even just going to a regular yoga studio Yoga is such a fitness. Now, you can even get some of the results doing Pilates. Same with meditation, don't like people think you go to one yoga class and went to yoga. And I hated it thinking that same yoga class is like that, for every yoga class. It's not keep trying different ones. Honestly, I highly recommend to all your listeners, find out all the yoga studios are in your area. Obviously, when COVID restrictions are lifted, get your one time passed, try it out. Try them all. It's not about finding the right yoga, it's about finding the right teacher that understand your problems. And they'll help you if you just go into a random class that says do this, do this do that you're wasting your time and money, you can do that at home, you can resolve a lot of those pains, the volume when I do yoga, I just sit and listen. I'm like, right? What am I trying to achieve? I'm trying to touch my toes and my where's the pain? Where was the pain, and then you start moving your body and seeing how it alleviates and releases the pain. That's yoga, and only a year and a yoga teacher will teach you that how to listen to your body as opposed to teaching you a move. Like listen to your body. And that's what you'll notice every yoga teacher says it listen to your body. You have course differently your body move around, see what it's telling you?
Yeah, like, right like, let's just what are you hearing? What are you learning? What's Oh, that's there's a tightness. Why don't we explore that? Why don't we go into it?
The rest of the class is going in downward dog you stay where you're well resolve that issue. In Are there any online classes that you're a fan of? Yeah, there's this YouTube channel. His he's actually from Edmonton, I think is in Edmonton now. And I just love the way he teaches it because he's just, he's just so chill about it. A condo yoga, there we go. That's the one a condo yoga, a k h a n da. I forget his name. His name doesn't pop up for me. But I've got his videos up here. I love those videos. They've really helped. They've helped me when I've struggled to get into meditation stuff. And yeah, he's got loads of free videos on YouTube, watch him, stop practicing, get into it, joy.
Love it. I only just started my yoga practice recently. And it's feeling tremendous in the body definitely feels like it was breaking. I went from a run streak of running every day for six months. And then as soon as they started the yoga, I realized the run streak was doing tremendously bad things to most of my lower body. And Yoga is helping to slowly work those things out there. So one of the things you talk about, often in part of it may be the body. But often when people drop into meditation, they get distracted, they get up, they walk away, meditation over, how important is it to be able to step in and out of meditation, until we can do it for longer and longer periods.
The aim is not to meditate for length of time trying to meditate for two hours trying to meditate for six hours trying to meditate for 10 minutes. That's no accomplishment. Congratulations. You can sit in a state of meditation for that long. The accomplishment is what you learn to do in the time, the approach to meditation is not when I teach meditation, I'm not necessarily teaching you how to meditate. I'm teaching you how to detach so that you can meditate. I can't teach you how to sleep is that same kind of like if I said do this and sleep and boom, you're asleep. If I could teach you that I'll be like, I'll be there'll be no problem with this. You know, building this thing out of lines outside my door, I'm sure but no one can teach you how to meditate necessary. No one can teach you how to enter that meditative state. They can only teach you how to arrive to a point of stillness so that you are effectively meditating. It's like detachment is what you're essentially exercising here. And we've got this understanding of trying to achieve stillness. You know, that's where your meditation begins when you achieve that stillness. It's like, finally, I've gotten separated from all of the crap that's distracting me. And now I'm still Oh, I'm just gonna wake up and come back into I know you've just started is that now Where do you want to go, that you've attained that stillness, getting into meditation, it's about learning how to detach. So we spoke about breathing and positioning, those are the first fundamental components, know what your control status so that whenever you're distracted, you're not you'll see it in your meditation, you'll sit in, you'll sit down, you're trying to meditate, and then someone comes to the door. Now you're away from that control breath, that distraction that thought or that feeling from the door, is completely gripped to your experience of breathing like you've taken you've, it's taken your breath away. So you return back to breath, reposition your body, if you need to, sometimes it's the tension in the body that's keeping you that's the distraction the tension in the body, reposition your body if you need to get comfortable. And now there's a step called locking, which is like ritualistic at the beginning, where you roll your eyes up towards the center of your mind. And don't strain here again, you don't want any tension in the body. And then you lock in. Basically, once you've locked into your meditation, you're effectively meditating, what happens is, that state can only last for a few seconds, maybe before you get distracted again, or something else occurred. And then boom, you go back to breath, and you start the whole process again, and you keep on repeating that cycle. It's not about it's not about how long you can sit in stillness, it's about how long you can repeat that cycle until that state of stillness is automatic. And if you can strengthen it, that locking process is like your meditate. So don't think of one meditation sitting as one meditation. Think as one meditation sitting as several meditations. But each time you'd go in deeper and deeper and deeper, just like sleep, it's not one solid cycle, it's cycles and cycles and cycles until, and they all collectively comes together as one sleep, your eyes are closed for eight hours, but you're going through these cycles of up and down, up and down. Stage 1234. REM, back down. Same with meditation, brief position, luck, now you're meditating, millisecond distraction occurs, Okay, back to breath, breathe position, like another distraction, go again, until you can get to a point where that meditative state Step four, is longer and longer and longer. Why does it need to be longer and longer, longer? Well, that's depend on what you're trying to process. If you're trying to find the meaning of life, then you're going to need to sit there for some time. If you're trying to just, you know, figure out a solution to an everyday problem, we can probably do that in 10 minutes. It's really about why you're meditating and what need there is for it, honestly, I want to see a world where we don't need meditation that will be wicked. Can you imagine that? A world where there's no problems, there's nothing, there's no we have, the thing is that world will then ultimately be a demise as well. Because if there's no, if you've come to a state of equilibrium, if you've arrived at utopia, the cycle has to restart again. And there's the end of life as we know it, but that's going to a whole different realm.
So what you're describing there, it's almost Terry, like when you think about how people react to things, and you look at the concept of a stimulus and a response, one of the things you learn through coaching, you learn through mindfulness you learn through psychology is technically in between that stimulus. And that response, there's a gap in what we're really trying to do is increase the distance between the stimulus and the gap, where the stimulus and the response so that we can make a conscious choice of how to respond if we respond at all. And when you think about that, meditation, breathe, position, lock, meditate, breathe, position, lock, meditate, what we're trying to do is increase that time that we're able to be in that meditation, so that whatever problem we're trying to solve, we can get to it without the distraction. Without the Wait, I'm not meditating. I was meditating. And it's what you talk about there. My teacher was trying to explain it to me. And sometimes I would get lost on this one. I'm meditating. And I'm focusing on my breath. And he said, Well, no, at some point, we don't even want you focusing on your breath. If you're focusing on your breath, you're focusing on your breath, you're not meditating yet. It's that stillness that you achieve. He said, Sometimes you'll notice you're focusing on your breath, and then all of a sudden, you're not focusing on anything at all. It's just still, that's where we want you to get to that stillness. And when you get distracted from it, that's when we want you to come back to your breath, get back to that stillness, and rest in that as long as you can. In your when you say breathe, position, lock, meditate. That meditate is the stillness. That's where I'm trying to rest and reside.
Yeah, that's, that's where you do your posts. It's almost like how can you be consciously stealth? That is, that's why that's why this gets really difficult to translate because when we think of stillness, we think nothing. You know, think of it like is the wreck cognizing yourself that you are at a place where you can go in any direction that you want to go, where do you want to go? There's your stillness. It's knowing that moment where you're like, I'm here, I'm still Where should I go next? What do I do now? What do I do in this position? That's why we struggle to meditate, because we don't know what to do in the meditation, you know? Are we trying to transcend all we're trying to do, what are we trying to do? And that's what's missing in a lot of Western education is that what do we do when we're in stillness? I can get there many times. But what the hell am I doing there? Because what happens that's ultimately why you get distracted. Because in that state of stillness, you're it's so so unfamiliar that we just don't know where to go what to do with it. In my lessons for the higher meditations, I don't necessarily teach. I don't teach what creation is, or the meaning of life. Forget that. That's for you. To figure out what I teach is how to navigate like, how to map out the mind. How to understand and recognize where you are in stillness. Are you sitting in stillness in memory? Are you sitting in stillness in the present moment? Are you sitting in stillness in a predetermined state for the future? Where are you existing, when you're sitting in stillness, I don't know, okay, I'm just gonna get distracted by this memory, then I'm gonna get distracted by the door, I'm gonna get distracted by this, you're, you're caught. It's almost like you get to a point where you're meditating practice enough, where you realize that you relinquish control over that state of stillness.
That's the key word right? There is control. Because you can go back, you talk about the ability, almost like an elevator, but I picture it on its side, the ability to go back to the past, when you're in that state, the ability to go forward to the future, to go up to transcendence, almost like a Willy Wonka, elevator, if you will, because you can go in any direction you want. The the key Terry is going in the direction that you're choosing, not being dragged there by an errant thought.
And yeah, let's just, I wouldn't even say it's more just being conscious of that. Be more conscious that you are in a state of stillness, and that you have complete choice and control in that moment. Instead of Oh, otherwise, this stillness, Hey, where's my golden start? You know, your meditation begins in the moment that you are still. And what if people are failing to achieve when they arrive at that stillness is knowing what to do when they're in it. And that's what needs to change in the education of meditation. And that's why I said at the beginning stages, when you arrive at that stillness, find solutions to your problems, create the state of calm, that you need to counteract the challenges in your life. Meditation is conscious processing. It's not ideally sitting there doing nothing, you know, you meditate to, to, to, to study to uncover knowledge, to discover knowledge, the whole crown chakra is all about knowledge, you are accessing knowledge in that state. It's knowing what knowledge you need to access, or what knowledge Do you need to attain. stillness is a beautiful thing. But it is kind of overrated. I mean, it's not the beginning. I mean, it's not the be all and end all of your meditation, the stillness is just that point, knowing that you can hit that point, whenever you need to just wait a minute, I just need a moment to think about this. I need a moment to just let me process this for a moment is that the conscious processing starts in the stillness, there it is, don't be afraid. The processing you talked about right there. There was one quote in the book that really struck me. And what you said that was that reality is merely a pre determined experience, comprised of the past and present experiences of life.
If the content in your past is not useful, navigate your body in the present to more useful experiences, learn and experience new things so that you have more content to develop healthier predetermine states that govern your experience of life. I found that very valuable concept as a way to improve over time and as a way to shed if you will, unhealthy thoughts and patterns of existence Can you tackle what that means for you and how you use that perhaps with some of your clients?
Yeah, again, there's two there's two different ways you can meditate you either meditating to kind of be more present or you're meditating to understand the present, you know, to really make sense of what's going on. And so if you're meditating to be more present, then what you're essentially doing with that whole predetermined state is right I don't have anything in my experience of life in order to navigate through this experience called life I have no nothing to really met like what am I here for? What am I doing I don't really understand much about myself about my reason to exist, well then that gives you the green light and the freedom to try anything and everything see what life has to offer challenge life. Let's see where you can take me say yes, a little bit more to develop the context you need in order to create an idea because, for example, I have clients who love creating music, but they don't understand chords or anything. They just they just love music and they don't quite sure why and I've got like clients and they can see they can see shapes and Music they see like a stop sign. And that to mme is like a musical tone. I was like, right. Okay, so now you need to know that that's how that ignites your mind and your intelligence, navigate to more experiences where you're consuming more shapes, where you can see an abundance of new experiences in life. And that will then give you more ammo to create different types of music and maybe tap into your genius a little bit more, you have the reality that you're experiencing, you can either bring reality out and create something, or you can just experience creation as is, the only way you're going to be able to create something is when you have a truth to create from when you know what you're creating, this is gonna get quite esoteric. So I'm gonna try and simplify a little bit more. So when you're creating a reality of like, reality comprise of the past, the present and the future states of being and it comes together, it's almost like your meta view of the world, your belief system, your idea, as long as the world it's, it's the layer in which you view the world in, you know, based on your experiences that you had as a kid based on the experiences that you've had recently. They're basically helping you keep you alive, keeping surviving, keeping navigating through the world in a healthy and happy manner. But if there's nothing inspiring you if there's nothing in your past that really makes you feel as if like, well, if there's nothing really encouraging, you're there's no sense of reality in your mind, that makes you feel as if life is worth living, especially, then you have no choice. But to consume more information. It's like your toolbox to create ideas and stuff is empty, you need inspiration. Now you are creator, experiencing creation. And what you're experiencing is, quite frankly, crap. So the context in which you're experiencing that creation needs to change the data that you've consumed sucks, need more data, go on an adventure, go traveling, go find, literally use the cliche, go find yourself go find some some some sort of experience in the world that will inspire you to create and bring something out, to inspire to understand reality for yourself. On the other hand, it's that whole sense of if you're experiencing an idea, let's say you have this groundbreaking idea in your mind, you don't know what it is, you don't know why it's there. But you have this feeling you have this energy, you have this something within you that you know, that you can bring into the world, but you have no clue what it is. It's because you don't have the data in order to interpret it. Like if that's what you're experiencing, there is a higher truth. But there's nothing in your experience of life that can enable you to give context to that higher truth. It's like you have an idea for a triangle but or you're living in is a world for the squares, how on earth are you going to come up with the idea of a triangle when all you're literally experiencing is nothing but squares in the world, all the data in your mind is square all the new ideas and information that you've been presented to this square, but you're thinking of this triangle, but no context in order to bring it into the world? Like why would you know, there's a whole different shape out there that you need to figure out. So what happens is you navigate through the world and you consume alternative, alternative things you try and board in a color palette, if you will, so that you can start contextualizing whatever idea or essence that you have. There are people in this world who live lifetimes feeling like there's a reason why I'm here. But I don't know why I'm here is because that that right? There is an example of someone who just doesn't have the subconscious context to be able to understand why they're here. There's no data, there's no learning, there's no lesson that they've come across that said, Hey, by the way, did you know that you can create something brand new? Did you know that you are here to bring in something that is not even doesn't even exist in this world yet, do you know that you are merely experiencing the present moment that the future is in yours to create that the past is that is basically experiences I've already expired, the future is not predetermined. Now, like I mean, we can talk on a higher scale, but generally speaking to everyday to most of us, what we make of our lives is what we create them to be. And we can only create with the tools that we have in our minds. If those tools suck, if those tools are encouraging us to create what we want and just really restricting our ability to create, then we need more tools, we need more experience experience, we need more inspiration. The best example of this is when I'm working with LGBTQ youth, because the world is very restrictive in their experience, right? There's not there's not those narratives that they can latch on to, to enable them to express who they are and what they're about. Therefore, the world becomes a very uninspiring experience. So they need to go out and venture take a few more risks and go out into the world and explore what the world really has to offer find their little pocket of of experience where they can bring their reality their creations to life to be able to know what colors that appease them if, for example, if if someone's never ever seen the color red before and all of a sudden the agave bark and experiences see the color red, it's like, hang on a minute, there's all this color is waiting for me to find that Oh, that was my pilgrimage. I just had to find this one color to be able to create this thing and put this piece together. I mean, what you're saying that quote is a very esoteric like it's it's a part of the book whereby I'm explaining how the mind generates reality and I'm expanding my best do my best there because they now the mind generates reality. And in order to comprehend all of that, he Iosco retreats. You know, my clients who come back from my wasco retreats, you've got one client saying they met Jesus, another one saying they met Christian, another one saying that my Buddha, like you all met with the same energy, just the subconscious context in your mind, which you wrapped around it. You know, you only know about Jesus, you only know about Buddha, and you only know about Krishna, that's the only reason why your experiences differ, but the energy you're connecting through is probably the same. It's kind of like that thing with reality, your experience that you're having in life is all based on the data that just stuck in your mind, if you don't go on adventures to challenge that data, or put new data render, good luck coming up with a new idea. Good luck, entrepreneurial clients, you want the next groundbreaking idea, maybe you step away from the experience of life that you're having, and eventually into a new one, get some more colors in your color palette. And maybe, just maybe, you'll stumble upon that rare, groundbreaking idea that will change life.
We're gonna come back to Ahauasca. But before we come back to that, for most of that topic, you were talking about the data in going out and getting new data. Towards the end, you mentioned something else that I think is really important, you also mentioned tools. And so in your searching in your experience, and you're learning, you're not only looking for more and better data, you're also looking for more and better tools, filters, lenses to process that data, because you may have, in fact, actually been getting. And I could be wrong here. But you may have in fact, earlier earlier in your life been getting good data, but you didn't necessarily have the right tools to process that data. And so in your experiencing in your searching, you're looking for both of those things, if I'm understanding you correctly, both get more data, because you really, you really can't know it all or have the right answers if you haven't seen enough. And that comes back to your comment earlier about needing those nine, nine years of enjoyable, and yet possibly wayward levels to be able to figure out, okay, what's the real path, but you also need the tools to do it. And so now jumping back to Iosco, the iosa, DMT, these are all ways to get you there very quickly. But these are all states. And these are all the answers that come from all of these, you get the same answers from meditation, if I'm not mistaken, if you're doing it, well, we're not well, if you're doing it enough, in your practicing, you can get to the same spot. And I think that's what I've been hearing from you throughout the conversation, is how you're using the meditation. What you're doing when you're in that stillness, what answers are you seeking? Is that accurate?
With Ahausca and psychedelics much magic like the psilocybin mushrooms, and they just open your body up to it. Ultimately, all you're doing, it's just like, they can open you up to it. But how many people have I come across that said, they found this thing Oh, my god, it changed their life around six months later they're back at it really changed your life that much that you had to go back to it, it was that profound that you like if it was that profound, you shouldn't even need to go back to it, you should have been a rigid belief that literally transformed your life. And what you just need to top up now to understand it again, is that what I'm hearing like this, usually the clients who come from the psychedelic background, so meditation, the difference between meditation and psychedelics, there's loads, but meditation, you're consciously expanding this field. And the thing is, with meditation, every time you do it, you expand this field, I don't care about expand his field, but each time you do, it remains open, that you would attain knowledge, but you can't unknow that knowledge. With a psychedelic, you've literally consumed something that goes, you know, field opens up, then what happens after the psychedelics done. So it's closing it closing back down. And that's the key difference with meditation, you're constantly opening it up and it stays open. Because what happens is, again, the technique that I'm teaching is not teaching you how to meditate in one setting is teaching you how to repeat and get back into the meditative state in one sitting and exercising that over and over and over again, until you find the perfect breath. You control breath, you found a perfect position, you found it, you found the perfect way to lock in and you know, when it's basically ready, said go meditate. You know, that's the first part of your training process is learning how to train your mind to get into that state of meditation. Once you figure that out, you'll be meditating 510 1520 minutes, not a problem. And also the thing is, you start realizing that a lot of psychedelics again, they only affect your body, they can only affect you, but they can open your body up. all it's doing is activating all the intelligence you have within your body. But what's happening is you're relying on the psychedelic Now to do that for you. You're not learning how to do that for yourself. How are you learning to open up these energy centers in your body? How are you learning to access these heightened states of awareness? If not, without said psychedelic
so what you often see the way we describe it to People is when you're using the psychedelics, sure, they might take you to the top of the mountain and show you the answer. But when you wake up, you're at the bottom of the mountain, you have to figure out how to get up there. And that's what a lot of people seem to miss is you saw where you should be or need to be. But when you wake up, you're down here, you have to, you have to actually walk up that mountain, you have to change your life. You have to, to what we've been talking about this whole time about meditation, you have to integrate what you learned into your behaviors, or what you saw is never going to become a reality.
For most people, what they learn in psychedelics is too much to integrate. Exactly, yes. And that's why meditation is much more of a mindful process. Because you're learning based on your current state of life. You're learning based on what you can handle how you have been operating. When I mean, when i've i've, when I've, I've done a psychedelic, all I've understood to do is make sure that I'm really fit and healthy. Like I go running for a few weeks First, I'll go get really physically fit and mentally fit, meditate, train my mind, because I don't want the psychedelic to take away from my experience. I want it to enhance it, I want like, I would go he goes breath goes, No goes. He goes breath consciousness and then the psychedelic energy. Wherever I choose to focus, my breath and final will follow and my psychedelic energy will follow to it comes behind me what without meditation, the psychedelic becomes the meditation, just like an app becomes your meditation, the guided meditation becomes your meditation. Why would you let the psychedelic or the app or the music or whatever do the meditating for you? counterproductive?
I chuckled a little when you made that app comment because I went to Silent Retreat about a year ago, little over a year ago, Terry and one of the guys that we carpool I carpooled with them. from the airport, there was four of us that carpool to the retreat center. And back, one of the locals picked us up great experience. And this person was there as a fulfillment of their education requirement. And they had never actually meditated for a sustained period of time. And they had never meditated without an app. So they felt they were quite mindful because they did their comm app, or whichever app they were using. And they did it every day and thought, okay, life's great. Like I always meditate. And then all of a sudden, they hit the gong, and 45 minutes, no talking, no one saying, bring your attention back to your breath. So all week long, I just, you know, you're not supposed to make eye contact supposed to be silent stare at the ground, noble silence. And when I did catch him out of the corner of my eye, he looked more and more miserable as the week went on, when we were carpooling back to the airport. He explained to us how freaked out he was by this process, because all he had ever done was meditate with his app. And he just, he was so uncomfortable. That entire week without having that person in his ear, telling them when to breathe, what to focus on what to do. And he said, If it weren't for his teaching requirement, he effectively had a nervous breakdown he would have left after day one was incredible. And wealthy teaching meditation he, he's a psychologist, and he is integrating the mindful, I might get this mindful self compassion. So there's two teachings that tie in mindful Based Stress Reduction mbsr. And then there's MSC I think it is, is the mindful self compassion. And to your point, I chuckled a little because I thought how can you teach mindful self compassion if you know a 30 to 45 minute meditation is enough to send you into a spot into a nervous breakdown into a nervous break down.
So all these questions you've asked me about mindfulness thunders like I can't mindfulness is not a meditation. I have to remind people this over and over and over again. But because so much money and investment and brandings gone into it, no one dare question it because I've invested $3,000 in his mindfulness practice, and it's all bollocks because why? mindfulness isn't integration. Mindfulness is to be aware of what's going on. It's not a meditation. Meditation is to process what's going on to really study and understand it to be a waste to be present. Like there's a power between waking lead that you've, you've ended your meditation and you're opening up your eyes. Breathe position, like meditate, integrate that last step. That's where mindfulness develops, and you develop it before you open your eyes. What's the next thing you got to say, what's the next email you got to send? What's the things that you need to do next, in order to integrate and act upon the awareness that you've raised? mindfulness comes after your meditation. Mindfulness is Not your meditation. And it's a very unpopular opinion because everyone's so focused on mindfulness practice. And I'm not dismissing it completely. But really mindfulness is like a snowflake on a nice group of what they thought meditation is. Mindfulness is, again, it's that Western approach to meditation because I can do it. I can really focus on my physical senses. I can go from sight to sound to taste and touch. I'm meditating, look at me go. It's that same Western mentality that needs to change move beyond mindfulness.
The Terry, you also. So last question before I talk about how our listeners can find you and whether there's anything else you want to dry dive into, you talk about three steps on the journey to transcendence. please correct me if my pronunciation is wrong. Maya at men in Samadhi, my art muscle mapping, and can you take our listeners through what each of those stages is on their journey?
This is your last question. This is the questions you've asked them. Okay. Right, my art master mother. And Funny enough, I'm teaching this to the group tomorrow. So Maya, these are not these aren't necessarily steps, these are tears of awareness, one can measure towards transcendence, making it to transcendence requires a certain appreciation of, of the way life is an accepting Maya Tier One is to accept all in any reality as an illusion. This is where do you know how I was talking earlier about teaching people who are suicidal and with severe mental health issues meditation, this is where we start. I teach them Maya, as I write for you now in this meditation, anything you experienced, whether it's emotional pain, anything that goes on in the mind is an illusion. It is not real. Any sound that you hear with your senses, any sight, anything that you experienced, to the physical senses, anything you experienced in memory, in your mind, all illusions, that's what you have to accept First, if you want to transcend and hit those high in heights, treat everything as if it's not real. It's an illusion that's trying to grip us trying to consume you. Don't believe me? If I poke you right now. And you're you're reacting to that me poking you that poking is no longer an illusion, you are bothered by it, it's real for you. Okay, so now reality for you is now the poking you are now reacted, you are attached to that poking, you become the poking you, you I now own you, the illusion now owns you because you're you're responding to it. If I'm yelling at you, I'm the illusion. Remember, you're responding to an illusion, you're reacting to an illusion. It's a mirage. It's not real, it's hard to see. Because you can feel the pain physically inside it. But I mean, we can get into that a little later, or maybe on another time, but the whole idea of realities and illusions because it constantly reshaping and molding. It's constantly evolving. Do you look the same as you looked? When you were two years old? Do you look the same as when you were looked? When you were five years old, your body itself is an illusion, you regenerate it grows, it changes shape literally just takes 80 years to do so 80 years, 90 years to continue going through the illusion. So life is constantly a state of illusion. It's just a slow evolutionary process. Anything in your mind if I asked you to think about what you ate for breakfast this morning, but I said go to your dinner table and sit at breakfast as if you were a dinosaur. Can you not tell me that's all illusion, there's a literal illusion for you. Your memories are merely energies that you are reviving from the press. You have complete creative control over them. You want to manipulate and change your memories. By all means, play around with them and realize how elusive they are too. You can change the color of your dinner play you can change the people who you are having dinner with you can imagine anything everything is an illusion in your mind. You don't believe me try and think of a lemon now change that lemon red, change the color of cut the lemon open and outcomes bunch of jelly beans, you can create that illusion in your head fight every five minutes. So trying to accepting my is that accepting that any experience that you are having in life be in your mind or with your body is a complete illusion. The reason why is because we want to get consciousness the conscious agency moving into optimal so here is where it gets very esoteric. Now you have the body of the body, you have the body of the mind. And then you have the body of the soul. You as consciousness navigate between all three, essentially. And this is very basic terms. When you're at your physical senses. If I if I came to you right now and just like, I don't know, swung a bat and hit you across the head, you're gonna experience the body of the body intensely. Okay. But let's say if I said something to you, let's say we met at a dinner party and I said something that really pissed you off. And you're sitting at home and you can't let that thing go that I said, you're stuck in the body of the mind. Now you're really in right. So you've moved consciousness like consciousness experience for the body experience in the mind. It's only when you can move consciousness into the body of soul. And you realize, Oh, what is this thing realizing Automatic to is when the when the journey moves up. Basically everything of the body has to be an illusion. Everything is the mind has to be a religion. Remember that the journey of meditation is to discover the truth. What is the truth to expand consciousness to rounds of truth? Well, in order to do that, you've got to question everything and treat everything like an illusion. How can you accept something that's true if you're trying to find it, you know, if you're 100% sure that this is the truth, by all means, integrate it and move your life forward. But if your problems are unsolved, sounds like you need to find a better truth. And so it's about really detaching and letting go and train every single thing that you experience, even the good stuff as illusion because what will happen is imagine this your consciousness, you're moving from the experiences of your physical senses from your body. Now you're going up into the tear of your mind. And this beautiful like ideas about you know, there's your past and you forget the past that was all in the past, of detaching from all of them are moving up. Oh, wow, look at the hopes for the future, this utopia. Look at this beautiful state. This is usually where most psychedelic people who take psychedelics kind of arrive at, Wow, this is amazing, this is great, I figured it all out, I understand it all. That too has to be an illusion. If you accept that as real, you're just going to go there come back into your life. And that's where your belief system stops. But you've got to reject that too. You got to reject everything, your hopes and aspirations, your dreams, your identity, everything you're talking about existing as a conscious entity, and nothing more, you have to let go of your everything, nothing to forget, I'm just saying for a moment detach, you're gonna get this going to get two points, where you're going to be moving so high and transcendence, where you're going to feel the energy of lost loved ones or loved ones in your life, you know, I remember had this one guy in one of my classes meditating, and he was in tears because his melting to a certain depth and all he could feel was like the love of his kids calling him back even then that's a key point now are you gonna let your attachment come bring you back from your transcendence. And so if he accepted that point, if he accepted that as my head continue moving up, if he accepted that as non that's the truth than the way he comes back down. So you need to get to the point where you realize art, my art my sounds great for this, for lack of a better term soul, you know, and there's a whole lesson that I took out of the book, because it was too esoteric, and it's gonna be a whole nother book for me to explain it. But once you realize art, my it's kind of like doing this basically, like a smart spam meeting, the act is like, well, now can create life, you know, something now exists or something now. So your consciousness, like a little sperm and atomized like this egg, for lack of a better of analogy, and consciousness is you this little kind of thing wiggling around trying to enter the soul. It's almost a nestling into the soul. And that's where your transcendental journey begins. Because you are now in an experience equal to the Creator. You know, if this, I do this technique with my young, most of my clients as well, when they're doing transcendental classes, imagine this piece of paper is all consciousness, it's everything that you experience, right? This paper is this papers, God, this papers, the universe, this paper is the source of all creation itself. Your soul is like that thing is, what you're doing essentially, meditation is you're moving consciousness into this little piece of paper, which then once only once you're in here, can you make the journey and understand how to make the journey back to source. Because you're familiar with it, now, you recognize it, you know what to sustain. But what you're doing in meditation is, so this is going to be really difficult to explain our partner. So this isn't gonna go into a story of creation for you, let's just say, this is the how the how it all started. This is before the big bang, right? Big Bang occurred from, right. And now basically, this is the soul. This is the piece that came off the big piece, the this is source, and this is a piece of sources your soul. So as this drifted away from the source, everything in between, it's almost like that's creation, you exist somewhere between here and here. You can go up or down, wherever, wherever, where you want to do it, while you're doing with consciousness as you're moving from somewhere where you exist in between these two states into this so that you recognize how to get to this offer, be familiar with this. You're moving consciousness into a state. And this is so difficult to explain, but you're moving consciousness into a state, whereby you existing as your more true and nature, like it was hard for us to comprehend because we're so used to and so connected to our physical bodies, you're going from a finite state, to an infinite state you're in but what's happening in meditation, the goal of meditation is to move conscious awareness into that infinite state. That's what the Buddhist monks are doing. That's what the Saudis are doing that moving consciousness into that infinite state. If you continue to move consciousness beyond it, eventually you will lose that consciousness of the body and you will transcend and leave the body behind. If you reach the body of the soul. You're like, okay, I figured out everything I need to figure out you come back to life, you become enlightened, you are enlightened to the truth and so that journey into the soul. And the thing is you keep rejecting until you can't reject no more. And that's all you got to keep doing if you want to hit the transcendental journey, so you accept Maya all the way up until you realize Artema, you went to the soul. And once you realize othmar, only then can you start beginning to experience Samadhi, which is the enlightened, more like beautiful state,
you've effectively connected the pieces, you're now connected back to the whole, not beautiful.
It's a journey. Yeah, when I've got my presentation slides and my whiteboard and stuff, I can explain it a lot better. And the ohm symbol comes in there, because that's what confuses a lot of people as well as the arm. The arm is just a sound. It's like if imagine, like the Big Bang, but matter that obviously you can you have to comprehend the size of that bank. And you've got to comprehend, like, if that bank happened, there's a sound that's still resonating through the universe, and that sound is on. So he's like, ball games is exploding. The sound was on. It just resonates. Yeah. And that just resonates through us all. Yeah, that's beautiful. There's a whole class on their own. But we won't go there today. All right, Terry. So where can our listeners find you just go to meditate the book.com. And you can get access to get the book book for yourself, you can get access to my meditation starter pack. And I know we went quite esoteric with conversation today. But I promise you I, I find teach meditation or focus my efforts on the early stages, because once you've got the groundwork done, getting to those highest states, you can get yourself. It's nothing that you need to learn. It's something you can discover. Yeah. And the book is, is very good at taking you through the basics. It's not diving straight into the esoteric, even if some of the conversation between Terry and I was, and Terry social media, anywhere you want to guide people to on that. Yeah, meditate the book. Again, that's the social media handles for Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. But yeah, and what I would encourage more people to do is get access, you don't have to make an investment. You just go get the starter pack. It's free. If you want to learn the basics and understand what meditation is from the core. Learn how to meditate discovery, and the only reason why I'm so pushing like, please meditate, because you will save 1000s and 1000s of dollars on so many alternative therapies that are just wasting your time and money. You don't need to retreat, why spend money and sitting in silence really makes no sense is just meditate, you have the intelligence, you have it there. It's easy, easy, easy to do. As long as you keep restoring that control breath, you'll be fine yourself in this thing. Excellent.
So we'll get a link for all of your social media and for your website in the show notes. And is there one final message that you want to leave people with that we might not have covered?
The only message I when I get asked this question on every interview, I'm just saying that is Andrew repeating the same thing. Whenever in doubt, just go back to breath. Just breathe. Literally. You can tell everything you need to learn or know about life with your breath. You know, when you're in love, you know when you're scared, you know when you're angry. And as long as you can pull yourself back out of that and restore control. You'll know whether it's right for you or not.
Fabulous. Thank you, Terry, we went over time really appreciated having you on and having this conversation is really enjoyable. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on the pursuit of learning. Make sure to hit the subscribe button and head over to our website, the pursuit of learning comm where you will find our show notes, transcripts and more. If you like what you see, sign up for our mailing list. Until next time, your host in learning Clint Murphy