Entrepreneurship is a mood independent behavior sport. Hello, architect nation. Welcome
back to the show where you'll discover how to run a profitable and impactful architectural practice. And I am super excited for the guests that we have on the line today because she's a certified sex therapist, which is an awesome, spicy topic that generally we don't talk about and coordination with architecture. But today, yes, indeed, we're gonna go there. Now, just as word of warning, that content we may be sharing on this podcast episode may not be for young ears. So you may want to listen to this with headphones or in the privacy of your own car. Now, our guest today actually met her through a member of our smart practice program. She's married to an architect, and he came to us because he's grown his architectural practice. And as we were working with some coaching with him, this wonderful lady was in the background, she overheard me giving a bit of coaching to him and asking him the question, what was the struggle around business development for him? And Dr. Marina Varane, who is our guest today, suddenly appeared out of the corner of the video, she said, I know what the I know what the problem is. And I said, Please come in, tell him what the problem is. And she's like, you just gotta get out there, make calls and do business development, you can't ignore. And I thought, wow, here's a powerful woman. So we got chatting and talking. And I discovered that she had grown powerfully her own therapy practice with a partner and is highly versed in marketing, but also is a consummate technician, as we may say, meaning someone who's an expert at her craft, but then has then been able to build a business around her craft. So many of the things that Dr. Veronica is going to share with us today are very similar to the challenges and things that we might do as architects today. Now with that, I'll tell you a little bit about who she is and what she runs. She's the co founder of the Nassau wellness, marriage and family therapy in Garden City, New York, which she started with her business partner 10 years ago. She's also a licensed couples and sex therapist and certified sex therapy supervisor. She's also the co host of the simply great relationships podcast, which I recommend everyone go and subscribe to that if you want to have a better relationship, especially when it comes to intimacy, communication, and connection. She's passionate about growing her business, while empowering her community to have better relationships. Dr. Ron, Welcome to the Business of Architecture podcast.
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.
Wonderful. May I call you Marina? Of course. Okay, wonderful. So there was a couple things we had you on XML after that conversation that you and I had, we then brought you on to speak to some of our coaching members, because I was so impressed by your singular focus, and your open mindedness about taking on the game of business. Because in architecture, I'm a trained architect, and in the architectural world, I don't know how it is in the therapist space. But in architecture, there's almost sort of this reluctance against business, there's a, it seems scary, we don't want to deal with it. We like the creative aspect of design and architecture. And honestly, I mean, we were just the sensitive souls, we all wish people would just come and just and just pour money at our feet for the amazing designs that we have, is that what is the culture like in the therapy world,
it's very, very similar. It's very like giving altruistic you want to help people you want to like, perfect your craft, you want to be a really warm, empathic, giving altruistic person. There's also a lot of kind of negative scripts around money. And not a whole lot of business knowledge. And it's almost like a little bit of a stigma around being a profitable therapist. And I knew and me and my business partner knew that we wanted to be profitable therapists. And, you know, so I see a lot of parallels, especially being married to an architect kind of between the architecture world and the therapy world and kind of the struggles, because I think the similarity is you're really trading time for money, right? You're really trading your time and your skill for money and you're hoping that people see the value in your work.
Absolutely, and with with therapy, how generally how we'll compensate or therapists because one thing that we struggle with industry wide in architecture is a generally low compensation especially compared with other professionals. And oftentimes, it's you know, we'll compare so with doctors or lawyers or attorneys or accountants, and it feels we have a bit of a, you know, a bit of an inferiority complex because it's like, damnit, we're working really hard and taking a lot of responsibility doesn't feel like we're getting compensated, as highly as some of these other professionals. What's it like in the therapy world,
very, very similar, very, very similar. A lot of really brilliant minds, a lot of really effective therapists that are being grossly under compensated that are working with insurance, which is just terrible and a disaster. Working in pretty, you know, kind of wild west To unruly non regulated environments having insane caseload and yeah being extremely under compensated for what they do. And again, like with our practice, we have a lot of financial transparency, we charge high fees, our therapists gets get paid very, very well far above industry standards, because we want therapists that are happy, we want therapists that are growth oriented, we want therapists that are well trained, who are going to come in and do an excellent job. So we essentially like I don't want to sound a little too, like I don't know. But we wanted to be industry disruptors, we wanted to have a practice that function very differently. Because we knew me and my business partner knew very early on that we wanted as therapists and as business women to function very differently.
And what was it what was it that actually opened up the possibility for you to even buck the narrative because it's, the default path is like, hey, let's just keep the existing narrative, and we're just going to assume that therapists aren't well paid, and I'm just doing it for the love because I love people, and I'm probably never gonna get wealthy doing this. And, you know, how, what was it for you that actually opened up a possibility, you know, I don't think it needs to be like this.
I think it was just having like, experiences being extremely underpaid, working for very, not great people, and just knowing like, there are people out there that will value the work, and will wanna, you know, compensate for the work because they will value the work and who are gonna, like, not everybody's going to be your client, but the people that are going to be your clients are going to value your work. And I think that was very much. So the mindset we got into very early on, thanks to coaching, you know, we had a coach that really had us focus on like, who our niche clients were and what our ideal client avatar was, and how to market to them and how to reach out to them. And, you know, like, we weren't looking to grow up, you know, I wasn't looking to have a 40 case caseload, because then I know by session number 15, I'm just on autopilot being like, Hmm, tell me more about that. How was that for you? You know, versus like really doing my best work and showing up for my clients. And I knew that like, burnout was the biggest kind of Achilles heel that there is for therapists that I didn't want to be a burnt out therapist, I wanted to see fewer clients do higher quality work, more niche, more specialized work. And that, like, if I built it, they would come. And they did.
I love it. I love it. Now, there's two reasons why I hope every single architect in the industry finds this episode and listens to it. This is highly relevant. And I think maybe some architects maybe listening thinking, I don't know, you know, therapy, what does this have to do with my architectural practice? There's two reasons why two very big reasons why I brought marina on here today, and we're gonna have an amazing conversation. Number one, is she's built a million dollar plus professional services practice, based on fee income, which is the kind of the same model that architects use. So she's going to share with us how she did that. Right. If you think it's hard in the architectural space, we'll imagine in the therapy space, where again, therapists, we know that sometimes they're a dime a dozen, that's the way they feel at times. So we're going to talk about that. The second reason, which we're going to go over in our next podcast episode I highly recommend you tune into is actually the connection between our sexuality and how we run a business, how we show up as a leader, and how all of this is actually intertwined, as well as some my own personal experiences in this area. So that's going to be hopefully that'll be interesting, intriguing, and get your mind going. Now, Marina, let's talk about when you came on, and you had the little coaching session where you shared with our clients, you brought up two really beautiful points. The first one was how we deal with the emotional toll or the emotional difficulty of the journey of pushing forward as a business owner because it stretches us, we face rejection, we have to do uncomfortable things like maybe do cold calls, or meet with people getting outside of our comfort zone, especially if we're introverted. A lot of these things are uncomfortable, maybe we have to do with finances. And it's discouraging because we hate numbers and we just don't get this whole thing about GAAP accounting and balance sheets and Profit and Loss it can be completely overwhelming. So there's the emotional part of getting discouraged. And then the second part you brought up was the idea of having a quick corks correction like making sure we know where we're headed and then quickly course correct. And so let's talk about number one, which is the emotional aspect of the journey now, to preface this I'll I saw a video from Tony Robbins yesterday which is really beautiful. And maybe you can correct me on this and say he's totally off base or maybe not, but it really impressed me what he said because I followed Tony for a while and basically he's all about state meaning like if you maintain a good emotional state, it your your your results are going to improve they're gonna increase it So he was talking to a podcast host. And, and Tony was like, he explained that we all have emotional, like homes and other words and an emotional baseline in which we are comfortable, that may be depressed. For some people, it may be melancholy, it may be excited, it may be kind of stoic, you know, but there's the whole range of emotional baseline. And that we can train ourselves to have a higher emotional baseline, we can train ourselves to be more resilient. And that as we uplevel, our emotional energy that we feel just on a daily basis, that this will then manifest in our results. So it can actually drive directly to the bottom line, because we're taking massive actions, any validity to that, that Tony talks about so often? Totally.
And I think this really ties into business mindset, because how a lot of us tend to think is, once I build a multi million dollar business, I'm gonna be happy. Well, no, there's hedonic adaptation, you're going to be happy very momentarily, and then you're going to return to your baseline, right? Really is what he's talking about is having a mind like doing the work daily, and not focusing on putting kind of contingencies of worth of how you're going to feel on the future. But saying, Every morning, I have to wake up, I have to tap into my growth mindset, I have to tap into my purpose, I have to tap into my gratitudes, I have to tap into my efficacy. And doing that on a daily basis for a year two years is going to change that baseline, it's going to lift the floor up. And then I'm going to sustain that feeling because I'm not relying on that big hit that big like, I, I got that million dollar check. So now I deserve to be happy. No, I did my gratitudes I did my journaling. I did my meditating, I did my workouts, I paid attention to the environment around me, I felt effective. I accomplished I kept promises to myself. And I created evidence for myself that I show up for myself in this way every day, for a long period of time. So the floor is now lifted.
And how important is being aware of our emotions and how what our emotional baseline is for business success and your experience
extremely, extremely, I will say this, a lot of people are mood dependent behavior, emotion dependent behavior people.
Right here, I find this a lot like, I may ignore checking my email, because I'm afraid of there's going to be something stressful in there or, you know, just like some of the business things that I know I need to do. Maybe going live on social media, I put it off because I feel just kind of like tired from the day as opposed to energetic. So I'll raise my hand on that one.
I appreciate you sharing that. I will say this. And I have said this many times. Entrepreneurship is a mood independent behavior sport.
What does that mean? It means that you need
to focus on showing up for yourself and doing the behaviors that you need to do for your business to grow. Regardless of how you feel in order to not difficult, it's extremely difficult. But in order to do that, you need to be extremely tapped into your feelings. Right? You really need to understand you woke up in a negative mood, well, why did you wake up in a negative mood? Is it because of something that's going on in your relationship? Is it because of something that's going on with a client? Is it because of something that's going on? With someone else? Okay, is there something you can do to address that? And to course correct how you're feeling? Is there something you can do to like, lean out of that avoidance? Again, do you need to tap into that growth mindset? Do you need to tap into some gratitudes? Or do you just need to like Eat That Frog? Do you just need to say, even though I feel this way, I made a promise to myself to make these phone calls or to send these emails, and I just need to do that I can't let the feeling dictate what my day is going to look like. Or I'm going to set myself back.
What were some of the unsavory tasks that you had to do early on growing your business that you're like, I don't really want to do these things. And but I know I need to do them. Oh,
like everything that's not sitting in therapy.
Yeah. Like it's good answer. Yeah.
I will say this, like I am a ADHD person. I'm not a writer. I come from a more sciences background, like emails extremely difficult for me. Anything with a lot of writing and you know, like for us in order to grow organically. We had to do a lot of writing a lot of landing pages. A lot of blogging a lot of optimization in that regard. So like, I had to just do that a lot of phone calls a lot of, you know, sales meetings, a lot of all kinds of building and nurturing relationships with people that I, you know, like psychiatrists, I was like, you know, in my late 20s, early 30s, meeting with these, like, 50 year old, super established psychiatrists, huge, huge point of anxiety for me. And I was just like, gotta do it, I got to do it doesn't matter how I'm feeling. I just need to show up and get it done. And I adapted this, like, almost like, I'm not going for perfection, I'm going for done. I can always course correct later, like I can, if I don't do well, on the meeting, I can always send a really nice follow up email, and maybe send them a little treat. And that will course correct. Not the best meeting, huh?
I love that. So finishing is better than not doing it all. You know, one thing that holds me back Marina is in these instances is for instance, let's say going and meeting with someone, right? Is when I'm feeling when I'm not in the mood to do it. Oftentimes, I'm not showing up as my best self. So I'm maybe more nervous. I may not say the right thing. I'm not in my genius. I'm just kind of awkward. And then like you said the meeting doesn't go as well. So does that ever go away? Or how do you deal with that, that you're like, you're doing something that like so you're already not in your best state.
So it does go away, because the more you repeat it, the more you can fine tune it, and then it almost gets to autopilot, right? Like that's we integration through repetition. The more you repeat something, the better integrated it gets. And then you do get to a state where it becomes a little more autopilot. And now like, I will go into a meeting with zero fear, because I know basically my talking points, I know how to engage, I know what questions to ask, I know what value I am adding, I know what I want to learn about the person like I've done it so many times, that it's so well integrated, that again, I can really engage in that mood independent behavior, regardless of my emotional background, unless my emotional background is really extreme. In which case like I then do the stuff to change and shift out of that
shuffle. Any any other words or thoughts on how to cope without getting discouraged. So
I think it's really three very significant things. For me, we're really being growth oriented, like all those books on growth mindset, you have to read them, you have to drink that Kool Aid, it is so so so key to be constantly in that growth mindset and look at everything as that like growth trajectory, and integration through repetition, and course correction. To purpose always being connected to your purpose. I think people overcomplicate this, and spend way too much time, if your purpose is more money in my pocket first versus other people's pockets, that's a great purpose. You don't need to make it complicated, you just need to genuinely connect to it. And then efficacy, I think efficacy is something that doesn't get talked about enough. But efficacy is really like the power to produce your desired result. Really, really walking your mind through all the things you're already affected that and reminding yourself like these are the ways I'm already effective. This is just where I need to generalize them to.
Okay, beautiful. Beautiful. Let's talk about let's talk about course correction. So the other thing that came up that you notice, as you were talking to our clients, and the architects we work with is this idea of getting into the business growth habit of quick course correction, not wasting energy and times on things that aren't working. And it's common to hear architects even in our program, sometimes they can go for a couple months, and they're like, Oh, I've had a loss this month and the next month data loss again, and and you're like it's just not they're not aware. And they're not even though we give them the tools. They're not actually tracking, they're avoiding something. So yeah, why did you bring that up as one of the major points for the topic today?
Maybe a little bit, you know, my own partner maybe a little bit, you know, what I saw kind of the vibe I felt in the group. But it's you know, I think the especially when people are like more in the beginning phases of their entrepreneurial or business growth journey, they're so scared to make mistakes, that they spend so much time trying to make like the perfect move. And essentially what they're doing is they're wasting time thinking perfecting versus EQ executing. And the reality is when you're executing, executing, executing, you'll see like, you gotta gotta throw cupcakes at the wall and see what sticks. You're gonna see what doesn't stick really quickly. And then you'll see what does and then you'll be able to kind of course correct and amplify the stuff that does work. But I think what happens is, again, that mood dependent behavior, I, I failed, I feel rejected, maybe I feel shame, I'm now stuck in those feelings. I'm kind of in that downward spiral, unless, and then you put that contingency, right, unless I do the perfect next move, I suck, I'm a failure, I'm not good enough, I'm not good at this, versus saying, like, I'm just gonna send out 100 emails, and see who replies back. Right, like that one perfect email versus 100. Imperfect emails, you're gonna get much more from 100 than the one perfect one.
I love it. And I really hope that our listeners really just pause this and go back and listen to what you just said. Because in my entrepreneurial journey here, after having built to $2 million plus businesses, I can tell you that this is so important. And I it is one of the things that I look at in terms of our own growth here. It's one of the things that keeps my business from being a multimillion dollar business at this time. So I was at a Business Mastermind recently, and one of my friends, his name is Mark Jennison. So he runs a coaching company that helps men recover from alcohol. And Mark took his business from just over a million dollars to $5 million plus in under a year. And so, you know, we're sitting there at the table, kind of sharing business tips and everything and, and I'm just like, damn, Mark, that is amazing that you've done that, you know, and one of the other guys was talking about some of his recent sales that he's made and kind of a sales process. And he talked about the fact that like, he has a couple of leads right now that needs to get back to and Mark, interrupt and rush like, would you say, he's like, oh, yeah, you know, I think I'll get back to him next week or something marks like, I would call him right now, I would pick up my cell phone, I would dial that number. And I would call them and get them on the phone. And if we make a sale, we'll make the sale. If we don't, we don't we move on. And I was literally I'm like, That's the so I call it now I call it the mark genossen fire that the action taking attitude, which is, is difficult, especially for me being trained as an architect. And maybe some of our listeners have the same problem is we're so focused on doing, you know, in architecture school, worked, you know, we're just, we don't want to make mistakes. Anything that we do could impact negatively people who inhabit our buildings. So we're very detail focused and very concerned about doing the right thing, making sure that this thing is just perfect. Like, you look at a lot of architects websites, it takes them two years to get it done. But they are pristine. And just like every pixel looks perfect. And you're just like, wow, that's an amazing website.
I'm sure it's a beautiful website at the same time, like, I have a very profitable, great business, we serve tons of clients. We haven't changed our website in 10 years. Our websites got great SEO again, because that's that was not the focus, like now we're changing our website, because we have time to do that. But, you know, the goal was to get the website up. The goal was to do the things that optimized SEO and got us on page one of Google searches, not to like spend two years building the super perfect website that somebody was going to be like, Oh, wow, look at this master artwork website. And the same with like client conversions. Like we have a policy, we have an intake coordinator like no outreach is ever sitting for longer than an hour. I don't wait to reply to you know, if I get a text in, I don't wait to reply to it. I reply to it right away, because the quick reply better than the perfect reply, right? If I engage someone, I don't have to say the perfect thing I can engage them and then follow organically. And then say the thing when I said
Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, you've you've if you just follow these two tips that Ron has laid down for us today, number one, being aware of your emotional state, having techniques and strategies that you do number one, to put yourself in a good place emotionally, but then it's doing the work regardless of how you feel. And number two, of course correcting taking a look at what you're doing. If it's not working doing something else. Your business will prosper. You have no you have no option but to prosper. Well, Dr. Ron, thank you for being with us today here and I'm excited for our next episode, we're gonna jump into some spicy stuff about some sexuality and an architecture and get a little bit of your professional input here.
Always excited to talk spicy. All
right. So As always, if you haven't already checked out our free masterclass, go to business of architecture.com forward slash smart, for more information on smart practice method and discover how you can actually implement these things. And we will coach you and help you to make this kind of shift in your architectural practice, as well as finding out more about what Dr. Braun and her partner do, as well as their podcast. You have a link for us, Marina is you want to tell us what that is?
Yes, if you go to simply great relationships.com forward slash, POA, we will have a little treat for you there. We're going to have a download for you there. Okay, beautiful. All right, maybe some tools and tips to help do some of that mood independent behavior.
Love it. And that's a wrap. Oh, yeah, one more thing. If you haven't already, head on over to iTunes and leave a review. We'd love to read your name out here on the show. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, the world's leading step by step business training program that's helped more than 103 architecture firm owners structure their existing practice. So the complexity of business doesn't get in the way of their architecture. Because you see, it's not your architecture design skills that's holding you back. It's the complexity of running a business, managing projects and people dealing with clients, contractors and money. So if you're ready to simplify the running of your practice, go to business of architecture.com forward slash smart to discover the proven simple and easy to implement smart practice method for running a practice that doesn't get in the way of doing exceptional architecture. The views expressed on the show by my guests do not represent those of the hosts and I make no representation, promise guarantee, pledge warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you conquer the world. Carpe Diem