And so we got a lot of really great questions. So I'm just going to jump right in and do my best. Some of these are quite long. And so I might have to do a little bit of editing just to get through them. Because when they hit that 1000 word, Mark, that's a lot not to say don't do that. Don't send them I'm just saying I can't read the whole thing. But I will try to summarize the salient points. I'm going to get to some of the shorter ones. Initially, and then we'll just bounce around so this is from gr Why is it grind? I guess I apologize if I'm not pronouncing your properly. Okay. I was wondering if there is a spiritual reason for why people like my friend experienced heavy psychological effects after heart surgery. super common. She had a valve replacement, and she felt like she died and came back completely confused and depressed over many, many weeks, even months. She still has trouble with short term memory when you're after. Well, that could be due to a couple of things. So there's a whole lot and this again is where integral approach there's more to this question, but I want to stop and address a couple of things. This is where an integral approach to these things really comes into play. This could be purely a residue from the anesthetic. I mean, if you've ever had general anesthesia, depending on how long you're under this stuff stays in your system and and that's why you don't want to do surgeries under general anesthesia unless you really have to because it has a lot of less than ideal neurological consequences and short term memory loss is one of those. So is that connected to the heart thing? Maybe I'll get back to that in a second. Could it be that the heart is disconnected quote, unquote, from the body in the brain that the spiritual dimensions get confused about what what kind of is like a death? Those spiritual, spiritual dimensions don't get confused. We get confused. But at the same time not since blood is pumping manually through the system. Okay. Yeah, this is this is actually kind of interesting. I've done a little bit of research on this a few years ago, when I was exploring semantic memory. And it's really awful. It's all someone who can do this bestselling book. Right? bavetta Coke, Your Body Keeps the Score. Memory is lodged in the body. Not just this three part mushy thing that we have between our ears, right? That's just the transference mechanism from short term to long term long term hippocampus to neocortex, that kind of thing. But especially when you're working with your hearts, and all the neurites that are there. I mean, there's Candace pert, really interesting work here. She's a psycho neuro immunologist who is a big hitter in this world. NIH scientist who wrote his best selling book called emotion markers of emotion. And basically she says this The scientist right she says cat she's basically your body is your unconscious mind. And so we say say memories are stored in the unconscious mind memories are stored they're stored in your body. And there's some really interesting literature about things like organ transplant cases, especially heart transplant. Now, this wasn't a heart transplant. But you start messing and playing around with the heart and doing valve stuff and whatever. You're you're dealing with some foundational things you know, your consciousness is not just associated with your brain. You know, your GI system is called the second brain. Basically cannabis is work is that there are neural receptors and check this out. There are neural receptors on every cell in the body. So you want to know where your mind is? Well, in this space of Chapel recording, this system is throughout your entire body. And so when they do things like just to give you an extreme example, when they do things like organ donation, this is just mind blowing. Not uncommon in this, especially with heart heart transplants have the biggest incidence of this there are patients who receive a new heart will actually start having memories that aren't theirs. They start having memories that are consistent with a donor. Hello. I mean, like how bloody interesting is that? Right? And so these are tricky. To say, you know, especially on a soundbite online thing where I don't have tremendous health history. Plus, I'm not a cardiologist. It's hard to say exactly what's going on. But I can tell you for sure, both in combat in combination with general anesthesia, and especially when you start working with a heart that it's not uncommon to have these kinds of discombobulation take place and I'd be very curious if people here have had these kind of surgeries if you want to click on paying similar types of experiences like Yeah, well, something very similar happened to me. Do that on the chat column. That's really a nice thing to share. But for me to say you know, is it could it be that the heart is disconnected from the body and the brain spirit? I don't know. I can't tell you for sure. It's really, really, really hard to say with any authority. I can only tell you it's not uncommon, and especially when you're working with heart, right. I mean, in the Tibetan tradition, you began another dimension. Now you talking about inner city, a subtle body yoga stuff, your mind. You go to Tibet, or Nepal, and so it still blows me away because I see it all the time. When Buddhists talk about mind, they never point here never. It still blows me away they go mind and they always point in their heart. And so the Bindu, the heart chakra, that's where mind fundamentally resolves, resides. That's that that is the essence of the mind in an inner yogic point of view, this is where you go when you die. This is where you go in deep dreamless sleep. This is where you go in deep meditation. And so in addition to what I just said about those so called physical aspects, then you have the whole subtle and very subtle body aspects. So the heart is a really big deal both in the physical world obviously, and it's equally as important in the subtle inner yogic tradition. So in short, not at all. uncommon to say what's actually happening. Whoo, that's really hard. I can't tell you for sure. Okay. All right.
From Mary. I wonder if you can describe some examples of realizations in meditation. Okay, I can do that. I've been practicing archery on a slash Tantra for several years now. And we'd love to have an idea if some of my experiences during practice or meditation experiences or might be realizations. Okay? Although my teachers will say about realization is you'll know it when it happens.
That's not very helpful.
And yet, I'm not sure if for example, when meditating on bliss, I can feel a profound bliss and peace, good for you. But never the bliss of orgasm. Yeah. Don't worry about that. When they talk about the big cosmic bliss, the great bliss, they're not talking about some endless orgasm, right? I mean, that's just like the closest thing that the human condition can get to Bliss. That's small bliss. Great bliss is basically finding the bliss emptiness in any circumstance. Basically, it doesn't matter that's, that's great. Plus, which, okay, so But nevertheless, of orgasm were some teachers, which some teachings indicate, is the feeling of the state of true bliss. No, I wouldn't agree with that. No, that's provisional bliss. True bliss is the great equanimity true bliss is the great bliss. That's basically finding, when we talked about bliss in this regard, this is a very has a very technical definition in the Buddhist tradition that leaves true bliss here is the bliss of de reification. True bliss is realizing the empty nature of whatever arises. That's real. Bliss. So when he talks about like the land of Bliss, the Pure land of great bliss day watch in that's what it refers to. It's this is talking about a dimension of reality that is suffused with the recognition of emptiness. So don't get to you know, if you have a profound classic was called neon, and I'll describe that in a second. Bliss, clarity and non thought, that's fine. But don't get hung up on that and don't try to reinstate it. That's like the worst thing you can do. So I'll come back to that because this has to do with the difference between meditation experiences and realization. So last thing here and when meditating on clear light, it is never blinding but clear and gray tone. Well, again, clear light. This is a clear light. When you talk about again, clear light is another one of these really deep topics, concepts you can have a clear light experience that is devoid of display and by that what I mean is it's a formless experience of the clear light. This is what people usually think is the clear light the Dharmakaya the clear light mind, no that's just the clear light mind Manifesting with the least amount of display. This is the clear light mind. This, this is really this you're looking you're looking at your computer. That's the that's frozen, clear light. You're looking at your wall, you're looking at your thoughts you're looking at anything that arises. That's the clear light, it's just frozen. So when you're talking about meditating and a clear light, to me, it sounds like you're meditating on formless meditations. That's great. I'm not criticizing it. But that's just clear light in when the volume has been turned down. It's never blinding. Yeah, it's not Baloney, because it's not white. In the provisional sense, we're clear and gray tone. It can be any tone. It can be clear, I mean, clear light basically means clear refers to emptiness. Light refers to Luminosity. That's all there. It is. Clear light means the union of luminosity and emptiness and that means everything. So when you're talking about these particular meditations, my suspicion is you're talking about meditations that are guiding you to a clear light experience that is devoid of the excessive onesie excessive. The high volume display of a clear light. And so therefore, the most important thing here is there's nothing but the clear like this is a clearly don't look for some big flashlight. Don't look for some big luminous thing even though that may happen. That's an yom, that's a meditation experience. So the first part of your question is really worth talking about a little bit. Experiences and realizations are not the same thing. This is a big deal topic. I've written extensively on this. Meditation experiences. They're called Yom and Tibetan. By definition, they're always temporary always by definition, an experience by definition always has a beginning and an end. By definition, Yama, like morning mist realization is totally different. Well, not totally different, but different. Top Tibetan, it's stable like a mountain. And so basically, there's a pretty big difference between experience and realization. So if you want to know if you're having a realization, that means it's stable. If you want to if you having an experience, that means it comes on and it disappears. So there's no doubt you're having experiences. I don't doubt that at all. But if they're coming and they're going by definition, that's not a realization. That's an experience and that may seem like all this is just legalese or pedantic speak. No, it's not. Because what happens otherwise is you can have a meditation experience, confused for a realization, then you're really screwed. Because then you think you're having a true realization experience. You're like some mini Buddha and you just have a high level and young. And this happens all the time. So this is where people really get stuck. When people think their experiences or realizations that's a really big problem. So yeah, I'm not sure what else to say Mary, if you want to come back on experience again, this is so important experience, by definition, in the Buddhist tradition, always has a beginning and an end. It's temporary. That doesn't mean it isn't valid. That doesn't mean it is great. But this is what actually constitutes the journey through the fourth path, the path of familiarity, which is four stages on one path. is basically transforming how did he use his put Smith put it transforming flashes of illumination, those experiences into a binding light as realization. That's what constitutes the 10 Boom, ease of The 10 Grounds of progress, your met your experiences, become more and more stable, the transit draw mature into realization. But guess what, how do you do that? By letting go of the experiences? You don't, you don't stabilize the experience by grasping onto it. That's the last thing to do. You want to reinstate the conditions that brought about the experience in the first place, which is a quality of openness and release. So this is where the things get problematic. Because you have some genuine opening. All experiences are based on opening realizations or stabilized opening. You have it and you think because ego immediately appropriates it, you think you're a Buddha. Well, you are a put on one level, but how does this thing go? spiritual experience does not make a spiritual person. So what happens with these spiritual experiences, they're so delicious, they're like, they're like candy. It's okay to nibble on them. But if you feast on these things, they're gonna make your meditation really sick. And you're gonna get big ass cavities. Sorry, I'm a retired dentist. You're gonna get big cavities in your spiritual path. So have the experience and then like my teacher, Khenpo Rinpoche said, but did he say you nurture your experience by destroying it? Let me say that again. You nurture your experience by destroying it. What that means is you destroy your grasping, clinging relationship to it. The experience itself was fine, but trying to grasp after it and trying to have it again. That doesn't mean we can't aspire that doesn't mean we can, you know, have this aspiration. But you start grasping after these things. You just replace the chain made of lead with one made of gold. He's a golden they call it golden cage in Islam. You get really stuck here. I see two Rinpoche said these are the most serious of all traps, getting stuck in a meditation experience. And I can name I won't do it. Because I tried to be polite I could name this point 20 So called Western masters who claim to be realized and they're simply just stuck in on Yom guaranteed so the classic nons there's dozens of them be ALAN WALLACE writes about this beautifully in his book. I think it's called coming to mind I think due to do you remember Chase teachings and what? I can't remember the subtitle, but Alan writes about it a lot. I refined it quite a bit because it's such a big deal. The classic experiences are bliss, clarity, non thought. Each one is associated parenthetically at one of the Tocai has one of the highest, but then you have countless other experiences. I mean, there's just there's an infinite variety. They're all fine if you relate to them properly. If you don't they can become a real problem.
Good question.
From Carol persistent obstacles, the development of Dream Yoga is a question regarding dental device for sleep apnea. Yes, I can talk about that. After a sleep study a year ago for Yep, sleep apnea. The past year I have struggled to experience undisturbed undisrupted sleep using the resume. Yep. And the full face of full face CPAP. Yep. You're not the only one. In your experience with yes with my practice does the mandibular advancement dental mouth device offer a viable option? absolutely, positively 1,000%. And so this is a really interesting thing. Because a lot is shocking. I have to tell you, it's shocking how many GPS doctors either at either they don't know about the studies and the efficacy of these mandibular advancement devices or they just don't want to get rid of their appropriating tendencies is saying everybody has to be on a CPAP No way. Everything depends on your ahi your apnea hypopnea index is a great question. To bring, by the way to our sleep doc once a month, second Tuesday every month. We talked about this with Dr. Ed a lot. Basically, if your AGI is not high if you're mild to moderate sleep apnea, the mandibular advancement device is honestly it's the way to go. It's just the jaw out. Take a little while to get used to get used to it. It basically opens the airways and it literally can be a lifesaver especially for people that receive CPAP intolerant. So if I were you if you want come on Tuesday, I can give you some names depending on where you live. I'm a member of the American Academy sleep medicine. We have connections all over the country. And I can refer you to a sleep doc in your area who can refer you to a dental provider who can actually implement make and then maintain one of these mandibular advancement devices. So do they work absolutely positively long and frustrating journey. You're talking about standard CPAP responses, I mean, these things are not easy to wear. If you have really acute severe apnea, you know, ah is 50 to 100 then CPAP is probably mandatory but even then there are other ways to manage it. But Go Go talk to a sleep doc, and then go see a dentist who makes these things. Okay, now we start to get some long ones. Oh, here's a shorter one. Yeah, from Barrow. I'm not sure I can answer this one in my interview with Pema children. Yeah, it was a couple of years ago she mentioned a book by Adam triptan. Ie I haven't heard this interview in so long, I don't know and Adam tripped on Bruce Lipton maybe amitriptyline that name does not ring a bell. About the pause in daily life. Yeah, the pause, practice and borrow awareness. I could not find it. If possible. Could you let me know the author's name? I can't not without listening to the talk again. I don't know and Adam tripped and so it's probably not who she was mentioning. I'm not able to list his presentation it could be part of the voice recording. Okay. Yeah, I can't refer you to that. But basically, you know, in the programs that I've done with Bob Thurman, it manleigh We do this pause, practice, like all the time, it's this impulse control thing. That I work with an all my Bardo teachings. Impulse Control is birth control. Impulse Control is working with Bardo practice in terms of putting the pause button between stimulus and response. So there's a lot of other people that talk about it tangentially, me included. I can't pull off without listening to the talk again, who Pema was talking about back then. So I'm so sorry. After 60 some interviews I can't remember every little detail but I don't think it's Adam tripped on that name ring. Does that ring a bell? Sorry, I
can't be more helpful.
Okay, these get slightly longer so hang with me and then if there's a live when we can mix this up with a live question just so it's not about me just totally reading everything. Okay, from Joe. Hi, Andrew. My primary 30 year meditation practice is self inquiry. Good for you. So fantastic meditation and one pointed awareness on the I am sensing the heart center. That's really nice. That sounds like an Advaita Vedanta practice that's great. This meditation is often carried into sleep and leads the dream sleep yoga, excellent frequently resulting in floating through walls and out of the dream scene with an accompanied high frequency state of bliss Rapture. That's awesome. Isn't it beautiful? And one of the reasons is bliss rapture is because in order to flow through walls, you have to do it on subtle body. That's a blissful state because it's less reified. It's less solid. That's what brings about the high frequency bliss Rapture. This is low frequency subtle bodies high frequency very subtle body is super high frequency infrared. Metaphorically that literally. Occasionally bodyless awareness will shoot up into the stars of this I love this stuff. Man. This is awesome. bodyless awareness will shoot up into the stars at an exceedingly fast rate of acceleration that sounds like a Kundalini or even a kind of a poll experience, which is really cool. Good for you. If the acceleration slows, a bright white orrible, often common to the visual field totally. That can be due to a ton of different things you can be in a topic vision. It can be a toggle vision, hard to say exactly what's probably going on, but it's probably some version of what's called toggle. If attention is turned away from the celestial objects and mostly maintained in the heart center, good for you. That's what you want to do stay centered. The upward trajectory will continue until it comes to rest underneath a vast ceiling of Deep Blue Plasma like liquid. This is awesome, man. It sounds like one of my psychedelic trips. I'm not dissing it. This is awesome. I love hearing these kinds of things. I've had to step I've had these dark retreat. I've had these experience numerous times good for you. While the rapture is intense and pleasurable, that's fine, but again, don't get attached. Don't get attached. There can be an accompanying feelings of disorientation. Yeah, because it's just unfamiliar and constrained. impenetrability. I'm not sure why oh, I would I would suspect the constraint impenetrability is a feeling that you're coming back maybe that's not clear to me. That can arise and prompt a downward cascade back into a dream scene or a waking up. Yes. So what you're experiencing here to me, before I go further with this, is that yes, you're kind of blasting off or actually blasting in whether this is an out of body experience or a really deep, inter subtle and very subtle by experience. That's hard to say on one level, that doesn't really matter. But the accompanying disorientation is totally fine. But you will realize Joe the only reason you feel that is because you're trying to understand the experience while it's happening. Don't do that. Just go for the ride. The disorientation only comes about when you're trying to reference it back to Central Headquarters. That's what makes it disorienting. So don't do that. Or if you find yourself disoriented, you will find yourself doing that that's a consequence of the contraction and to cells. There can be accompanying feelings of disorientation and constraint. Yes, that's what it feels like when you're coming back down. You feel like you're being trapped. But that's only because you haven't taken that openness and brought it into your form. So you're having a Dharmakaya level experience in similar to the experience. Question earlier. Yes, it's great to have these mind opening mind blowing experiences but that's not the point. Mathematically using the tracheal system, that's 1/3 of the point. You want to take that insight, that openness and then bring it back into form. So then it doesn't feel like a constraint when you come down. So you don't see the difference in you have no preference between being embodied and being transcendent. As long as you have a preference and you have sense of bliss and pleasure and constraint. There's a cosmological dualism taking place, and therefore your waking experience is incomplete, right? You want to take your heaven, bring it back to Earth, bring it back to form bring it back to body, then it won't feel like a constraint. It will feel like a dream. This will feel like an illusory form. Do you have any thoughts about what this blue liquid ceiling might represent? Yes. Do you have any suggestions about how to navigate this experience from a yogic standpoint? Yeah, I think I just said that. Don't reference it, stabilize it. It's helpful to understand what's happening, maybe what I've said has been of some benefit. And then again, the great equanimity the great bliss don't have a preference for one or the other. If you prefer one experience over the other. That's not the great equanimity that's still referentiality Taking place you want to let go of that. This is important because otherwise people just hanging out on the bliss and the rapture and they think that spirituality well, very limited understanding of spirituality then what happens when your life falls apart? What happens when you're dying? What happens when you know it's just a crap show? Where's your spirituality? Bam. And that's why I even hate the word spirituality these days. It's a horrible word. I mentioned this I don't have time to unload on it. But the two biggest problems with spiritual path you've heard me say this The two biggest problems with the spiritual path number one, use of the word spiritual Number two, use of the word path. The two worst things that ever happened to the spiritual path is the word spiritual. And path I wish I could say more but maybe we can discuss it later. The liquid ceiling thing that's tricky to say with complete authority, but this is one way to look into this. Joe is study phase two of the luminous Bardo Dima TA, especially in phase two, there are four stages, explore stages two, three and four, especially three and four. Because in that Bardo literature they talk about these canopies of light this liquid ceiling and so you can also experience it you don't have to wait till you die to experience this. This is part of these toggle visions and which is probably also a little bit of what you're having the radiant display of the mind in this kind of liquid light form. So again, it's so hard to say Good lord. Oh, am I I'm just making an educated guess. But that's what it sounds like. To me. It sounds similar to stage three for luminous Bardo marmota which is where you just have these light canopy things. So explore. Let's see here. Luminous emptiness by my dear friend Francesca Fremantle, there's 100 pages on the luminous Bardo Dharma chat. This book is a masterpiece. And she raps about it. Sagal recce and you know, people go oh my god, don't ever mention his name again. Sorry, Tibetan Book of Living and Dying is a great book. His teachings on the Bardo Dharma talks, he talks about this. Most people who do talk about Bardo Dharma talk, especially the four phases, they will address this. Okay, really good. This is awesome. Very cool. Okay. All right. Hang with me. And then maybe I'll take a live one or if we don't have a live one. I'm just going to keep reading these. Alright. From Johnny, two part question. I've been having recurring nightmares for the last couple of years where I'm last cleaning up vast amounts. of trash sorry. And on a drinking binge and in trouble. I've been sober for six years. Good for you might be interested in the talk I'm going to have with John on Integral recovery by the way.
Or that the world is
ending usually by water fire earth upheaval swallowing everything and oftentimes the Commonweal wall okay. I feel like these have been communicating to me in waking life that I have work to do. We all have work to do. And it keeps leading you back to Buddhism. Okay. I have a boat load of wholesome fear. That's good. Wholesome fear means putting the fear of the truth of karma, the fear of the truth of dying as wholesome fear. You want that that's good fear, because it will propel you. Oh, there's this beautiful line. This is worth tossing out from Milarepa this guy killed 37 people. I'm sure he had a lot worse nightmares than you did. And in this beautiful verse from one of his songs. He said this and horror of death. See, that's the healthy, wholesome fear. In horror of death, I took to the mountains contemplating again and again on the uncertainty in the hour of death. I captured the fortress of the deathless unending nature of mind. Now all fear of death is over and done with what a great verse, wholesome fear led him to retreat led him to his awakening. I have a boatload of wholesome fear of dying without cleaning my karma warehouse or being lucid during my death transition. That's healthy fear.
That's good.
I have been lucid in a dream which is very exciting, but it seems the more I tried to become lucid, the more vivid these nightmares become. And it's frustrating that I can't get in there to clean them up. Okay. What do I do when I get in there to start transforming these nightmares into dreams? That count is work towards the cleaning up of my karma in my sleep hours? What a great question. For waking hours let me get that because then there's a waking everything. So here's the underlying thing. There's so many ways to work with nightmares. Again, I tried to toss out references when I can, my dear friend, Claire Johnson wrote, In fact, I interviewed her on both on nightclub and edge of mind. Her beautiful book, The Art of transforming nightmares is really really good. So there's two there's nightmares occur across the spectrum and there's a spectrum of ways to work with ease. One way is to classic psychological approaches where you work with integration healing, and those are extraordinarily helpful and lucid dreaming can be super profound and helpful along those lines as well. And Claire writes about this beautifully. But even deeper than this, because this is a deep set of questions connected to some of what I was talking about earlier. The most important thing are is nightmare principle. Not just your nighttime nightmares, your nighttime nightmares are just epiphenomenal secondary expression of the nightmare principle altogether. That's what you want to work with. Because if you work with a nightmare principle, this is what this is the irreducible inner work everything if you do this tricky word these days everything Trump's it's amazing. Oh, he's he's trashed. The language right. Can't even use that word anymore. Working with a nightmare principle trumps everything. And what what the nightmare principle is nightmare principle is reification solidifying so when you're in a nightmare, a classical nighttime nightmare. Yes, it's scary because there's a monster there. Whatever. Yes, it's scary because of everything you said. I'm not dismissing that. But what really makes it a nightmare is not that it's taking that bloody thing to be real. reification is the fundamental nightmare. That's a nightmare principle. So when you work with nightmare principle, what's the fundamental solution? mDNS the teachings are no loose reform. I wrote a whole bloody book on this. My book dreams of light is all about this. So this is the way to do this both during the day and at night. You start working with this you're really cleaning up your karma. There's nothing more powerful, nothing more powerful than cleaning up your karma than working with the teachings on emptiness and luminosity, nothing. On top of that, then you have all these secondary methods like Dream Yoga, meditation, therapy, all that they're all great. But you want to really get to the heart essence of it, study and practice the teachings on emptiness formlessness because that's what creates any nightmare and then it doesn't matter what happens day or night. As long as you see the illusory nature of whatever arises. That's what it means to wake up and that the reification process will take care of any nightmares. Nightmares only exist when you reify things so that I would go that hard essence here. Okay, for waking hours. I'm wondering if Buddhism is the path for me, that would be the first steps for example, is there a baseline book I can read? Yes. I'll give you a couple to start getting familiar with all the terms. Yes. There's so many I hear you. Yeah. Can you recommend to anything you can recommend to read if the mind is chasing many rabbits? Yeah, this is a classic. Zen saying Chase. Two rabbits catches none. Then how do I find a sangha teacher? Okay, lots of questions. Here. Well, just to be brief, my my dear friend, Reggie Ray, wrote to me, I think wonderful books. Indestructible truth, which is Hinayana Mahayana. Volume really, really great. And then he's really beautiful. Secrets of the virtual world, which is Tantra of Audrianna. I like it because it's encyclopedic but it's written by a practitioner, I guess not just a scholar. He's a PhD University Chicago scholar, deep practitioner. And these books I've read a number of times. They're among the best foundational texts, there are so many others. But if you want something reference wise, that joins academic and practice modalities. I think Reggie's work is really helpful here. In terms of finding a Sangha and a teacher. That's, that's difficult. You know, it's so idiosyncratic. I can tell you my favorites, you know, Tergar second Riverchase organization is unbelievable. All of our PJs, the Tartar is off the charts. I mean, there's so many sericultural Rinpoche you know, the way you find a teacher, the Sangha is you just first of all you hold that question deep in your heart, you really mean it. And then there was something to be said about, you know, the teacher will appear, and then you have to test the teacher, right? Don't just sign on the dotted line, test them test the song a test, the teacher asked the hard questions, kick the tires, look underneath the hood, because these days, you know, if you haven't been reading literature, is really easy to get burned. So that's a really, really big topic that maybe we can address at a later point because it just so much to say here, but I would just say, be critical. If they don't address the hard questions, they're not for you. They don't want you to challenge them. They're not for you. You want a community that is willing to be questions to a certain point. I mean, it's that can get a little bit excessive, but I think you get the idea. So yeah, maybe something like that. Okay. I don't want to get too speedy here. We'll have some live ones too. Yeah, I see those. Let me just do I think I got all these before I get to the two quite big ones in terms of length, so I have to switch to a different doc to do that. So in the meantime, I will get clan Kimberly and then I'll come back to the longer ones that were sent in. Okay, Glenn, fire away, buddy. Hi,
good morning. Good to see a question a long time ago when I was in college.
I think this was back in the 60s 70s there was an understanding that the human skin was somewhat of the same nature of the retinas. So work was being done on people who are blind having things that they could feel and they could see
myself blind sight. That's called Mindsight. Yep.
And I've kind of wandered, so sitting in various times and having an itch, so I scratch the itch. If I scratch the itch, I noticed, oh, look, it's reappearing in another place. Right. And I realized I came I came to a possible insight. I don't know if it's true, that that an itch is actually a thought, because it's operating on in the same brain magnet and a lot of itches, you can never find so so you get an itch here and you look for it. It's not there. It's actually another place that somewhere else, and I'm just thinking so the mind has thought all these other things and it's just one of them. And and I've noticed now if I just ignore it or don't ignore it, I just, it's there. It's present. And it goes away. Like I thought it comes and goes so I'm just wondering if I'm approaching that the right way. This Yes.
I think you can. In fact, here's a really slick I can't remember the title of it. Really interesting article came out about, I don't know eight, nine years ago, I think it was New Yorker about just to show you how wild is can get about this gal who had this insatiable irresolvable itch, and she got to the point is no exaggeration. When you read the article, you're going Oh, lordy. She actually got to the point where she scratched herself down to her bone. Right literally not metaphorically. She had worn off all her skin, and she was like scratching her bone or something like really dramatic like that. So that certainly lends credibility and an extreme level to your assertion, which I think has provisional validity and they Yes, what we classify as an itch and our desire to resolve it through sketching on one level is a thought construct. But yet on another level, we do have, which is that you could say prior, you know, it's called primary data right before you label it as a niche. There is some undeniable neurophysiological thing happening in your system. And you know, you can append the label edge to it, but that I don't think you can dismiss. I think this is where you have to send a few child the phenomenal versus the relational realities that there is something there that is not dependent on your interpretation that you wouldn't label a niche that can be measured that can be that's the relational reality. And then there's phenomenal reality. That's what you do with it. That's what you labeled, ah, that's what you scratch. That's what creates this kind of secondary poncha proliferation that takes, you know, takes place on top of that primary data. And so I'm not sure what else to say about that outside of Yes Really interesting. Anything else you want to add land or go to check it out? I wish I remember the name. There's a really interesting article that that went to talk about. I remember clearly because I had had a really interesting some couple pages on how it is that we basically construct our realities in a pretty rigorous kind of philosophical, scientific sense. I'm gonna send the New Yorker if you Google something again, I don't know how you could find it. But yeah, it's we're looking to we're looking for it's pretty cool piece. Okay. All right. Kimberly fireweed here, and then I'll get these two longer ones, and then I'll see if there's anything in the chat. Hello. I'm good, are you
um, so my question is about the subtle body. Thank you. I think we're in a bit of a time lapse. So my question is about the subtle body and is it that we actually create it or it's already like there and we're just kind of moving our consciousness towards it, which highlights it.
Question. Yeah, subtle body is another one of these multi valence terms, which means it has a number of different definitions based on context. The way I roll with this is that subtle body has both a phenomenal or phenomenal logic phenomenological aspect and the physiological aspect. They're connected, but they're not quite the same. And so the physiological aspect is the easiest one. Well, actually, they're both pretty easy to wrap our minds around the subtle body is is what many of the Eastern traditions especially Hindu, Buddhist Tantra, you know, talk about and describe, in voluminous detail their medical texts associated with this. There's a massive meditation texts, literally a third weeks according to my friend Reggie ray in his book Secrets of the larger world. A third of all Adrianna tantric practice is devoted to inner yoga as the inner yoga is associated with subtle body. So that's the physiological study body that's made of Somboon Sigelei. You know, the winds, the drops, the wheels, the chakras and that whole thing. So that's the phenomenon that's the physiological subtle body, then you have the phenomenological soul body. And that's your thoughts and your emotions, and basically aspects of your experience that are not basically exclusively associated with reified physical form, see, and so therefore, I think it's helpful to centrifuge those two things out. They're definitely connected, especially in the world of Dream Yoga, because Dream Yoga works with the subtle physiological body. That's why we do the throat visualization. We do the breath thing. We do all that inner yogic stuff to work the physiological subtle body as a way to bring about phenomenological subtle body experiences called dreams, right? And so therefore, we I think it's helpful to understand those two renderings of subtle body. And I'll pause there to see if that's helpful or if you want to take this somewhere else.
Yeah, so then you know, we can do the yoga when we you know, creating or imagining DD. And we, I suppose the goal you told me is to become the DD. Does that mean we kind of like creating our subtle body or manipulating our subtle body to be in the form of video and characteristics?
Yes, exactly. So yes. So when you're working the purified subtle body you could say is, is I mean, provisionally, you can say the purified subtle body is the deity. But again, here don't reify the deity is deity, principal deity principle. Here is exactly connected to the nightmare principle to deify is to lucify to reify as the impure right and purify using my language, right? So instead of reifying deify, that's what the that's what Didi practices. Deity practice replaces reification with deification. Basically that's what you're doing. And you're doing it through subtle body processes. You're working with visualizing your body in these pure forms with clear limpid channels. You're basically using the principles of what I call Nadi plasticity, right the channels you're using the power of breath, work and visualization and mantra recitation, to literally shape shift and you'll get exercise to shape shift of physiology and anatomy of the subtle body. And so then that becomes well, that's purified that's recognized as the deity but you can you can achieve the deity in a number of different ways. That's a little bit more bottom up using subtle body processes. You can also do a top down with purely so called mental practices. But the great gift of the tantric tradition is the bidirectionality you can use both see. So but basically the deity Yoga works. It's like a transitional practice transitional object and helps you transition away from reified form into fully de reified, empty form. It's also the exercise of the symbol GokaiOh. So when you talk about subtle body, you're talking about some vocal chi level practices. So again, this is you know, once you start kind of equating it with that, then you have a vast array of different skill sets, in addition to deity yoga, like in fact, even Pure Land practice. I have a ton of Rinpoche say something very, very interesting, which I hadn't heard before. In a recent program I attended, where he said purely in practice is what's called simple Coca Cola. I'd never heard that before. And that's that's basically a subtle body thing, but that's a different story. So is that helpful?
Yeah, yeah. So it's basically like once you have a good handle on the subtle body, I think the kind of transferring the consciousness, that aware consciousness into that body of then goes on to I think the polar is that, right?
Depends on what type of poll you're talking about. There are at least five types of tantric Pola and then various levels of superpower.
The kind of okay,
would you most people when they talk about polo, they're talking about when most people talking about polo, they're talking about Nirmala Kayapo, which is a subtle body ejections through the central channel that hiccuping practice. So that's demonic high up, but they're talking about Yeah, there are other types of practices. And the other thing about the transference here, you know, here's, here's one, perhaps a healthier way to look at it. Is that these, these subtle bodies, the subtle body and the very subtle body, these are things that don't really have to be generated, they're provisionally generated as generation stage practice, that's a that's a relative skillful means. Fundamentally, the the to really acknowledge recognize, the subtle body is really in fact, just that it's an act of recognition, it's already there. And the practice is really transferring our sense of identity somewhat connected earlier to the real question about all these you know, galactic experiences. Part of the practice is to transfer our identity from exclusive identification with mnemonic Hyah, outer form transitionally, get into the subtle body processes. That's where all mantra comes in visualization, generous stage practice, deity yoga, a huge array of what are called Inner Court practices. They come in there and then you have the other third of the all the tantric practices, then you have very subtle formulas, body limitations. So the key is to exercise develop familiarity with all three the trachea, and you can do that provisionally through all these methods. But you could also do it in more fruition ultimate aspects by just recognizing these tuning into them. And then basically opening expanding our sense of identity to include all these three dimensions of our body mind matrix.
And obviously, it's good to quick thing, so that would be kind of just is it just a path or a tool to lead one to see the the clear light mind in a sense of the fluidity of one's own self to become so many out to become like the subtle body but then that kind of opens the door that if I can become fierce then you can kind of become anything? That's correct. Any persona, any person?
That's well said? That's absolutely correct. So the ultimate goal of all the practices are the clear light practices. That's another way of talking about emptiness. That's the essence of the whole shebang. So fundamentally, when you recognize that it's the steepest path but that's fundamentally all you need to do but it's it is a bit steep. And so therefore, we have all these more relative approaches of doing it but once you actualize recognize everything that is clear like mine, again, that trumps everything, you get that then everything else automatically just you realize, what did they say all Dharma degree at one point? You know, the 84,000 Dharma is all the teachings fundamentally circumambulate this empty course so to speak. So yes, on one level, that's absolutely the way to look at it. And yeah, I'm not sure what else to say at this point.
Okay, cool. And then the last thing is, do you have any recommendations for like you're talking about or the Dharmakaya is and the borders and subtle bodies? I think you recommended the luminous emptiness. Is there any other books or is that kind of the good book to go for informal that
be specific about what that is? Again, just say that again?
Like, just like, bother you guys pose, generating the subtle body and the Dharmakaya is
different? No, I mean, Francesca is it's really fantastic because half of the book is proper preparation material for the book. So she goes through the whole, this really brilliant chapter on the three levels of reality. That is all set around the Chicago principle. It's, it's more explanatory. It doesn't really tell you about the genesis of the practices, you know, other books. that I recommend. I mentioned this last week. I have it up because I'm rereading it. This is a must read. Creation and completion, the essential points of contract reading this, you have to read this book. Because the essential points of creation and completion is one I mean, it's basically what we're talking about here. Creation stage practice is generation stage practice, and that's what worked with somebody. So I you know, I think for Jessica's book, and that would be really, really solid starts. But the literature is colossal. There's so much out there and also Reggie's book Secrets of the larger world. It's yeah, that's really great because it gives you a very clear survey of where the practices are with the teachings fit and all that kind of thing. So as a as a reference text, I think that's a really good one. But if you don't have the completion text, that's highly recommended as well.
Awesome. Thank you. So much. Thank you.
Welcome. Okay, so I mean, I have a couple of these slightly longer ones. I hope I'm not racing through these but I tried to get through them and there's a fair amount here. So hey, listen to my podcasts with Michael Taft. He's a good friend. hoping I can answer a few questions. Okay, I'll try. I have a regular meditation practice, good for you free form in nature. That's okay. But be careful. Make sure that to freestyle because otherwise you can fool yourself. I usually sit for at least half an hour, if not hour. I suppose it's a version of a formless practice. Okay. I do begin to have to ask you more to see if that's the case. I do. Begin with breath move on to somatic scanning very nice and then try and dwell in stillness while being mindful of not falling into super beautiful. There are some things I notice and regular experience during meditation. I wonder what about one when dwelling in stillness? Once I'm there, there's a phenomena or I believe the mind as ego suddenly becomes the moment okay, I don't understand that. The ego suddenly becomes the moment I literally just don't know what that means. So if you're here, and when I clarify that for me, that'd be great. It is almost a sort of trick of the mind and adaptive behavior of mimicking stillness. This is the best way I can think of describing this phenomena. Yeah, I can't wrap my mind around that one. The languaging just doesn't click for me. So I'll I'll slide in the event that you're here and you want to come on and clarify it. I read this earlier these letter to do make sense to me. Another phenomena is one I've managed to become quite still if there is some noise in the room. For instance, the house is creaking if it's at night I experienced the sort of contraction.
Yes, absolutely.
Because the contraction is basically everything that happens especially when instances of reactivity experienced a sense of contraction, sort of contraction of my senses almost like you were to touch a sea anemone for instance, and recoils from your touch with a lovely analogy image. The experience is noticeable as a visual disturbance. But the experience is a whole body contraction is a whole body contraction has a sort of bell ringing quality to it. Yeah, I'm not sure about the bell ringing that's somewhat idiosyncratic. But the whole body contraction thing Whoa, this is a big deal. And this is something that's definitely worth exploring. In fact, those of you who know my stuff I, you know, the two books my next two books talk a lot about this contraction thing. It's a big deal. So yeah, let me see if there's anything I can say. About that. The fact that you're touching into these contractions is really, really good. And in fact, the more you open with meditations, you have the more like creative contrast medium, the more you'll be able to set sensitize yourself and the more you'll notice these contractions and that's actually really good. It's a little bit painful because it's so revelatory, but it's also really highly prescriptive. It will allow you to identify these cascades of contractions, and then gradually open relax and release them. Excuse me, the other thing I was interested in your perspective as I find my eyes will constantly open. I'm sorry, my eyes will spontaneously open and I'll awaken after having sitting for a bit, okay. The phenomena is quite automatic in nature and led me to explore just watching the body during meditation and the way it is very suddenly very active without my input. That's a really wonderful thing. To do. You know, this is this is a really interesting thing to point out even like right here right now. So here you go. Until I bring my attention to the blinking of your eyelids. You're unconscious of the fact that you're blinking all the time. If there's obfuscated consciousness, right? Until I bring your attention to the fact that you're breathing, you probably don't even know that that particular aspect of your existence is taking place. And so with these types of interoceptive explorations, you can start to become increasingly more aware of these marvelous things. That are happening within your body all the time, up to a certain point, because it's like my friend, Bernardo Castro says, you know, if we were and this is an amazing statement, and this has been mathematically allegedly, I haven't really looked at the papers the work of Karl Friston apparently, mathematically and I haven't read it, so I can't say for sure. He suggested very compellingly that if we were to somehow perceive reality as it really is, without the filters of our perceptual and somatic apparatus, we would turn into an entropic soup. We would just basically melt on the spot, right? I actually think this is what happens when we die, I think is what this is what actually constitutes a death process. You open to such a degree degree you actually do dissolve into a tropic suit. So I really like what you're saying here because this invites a very sensitive interoceptive exploration where you can become sensitive to like what Kimberly was talking about the workings not only of the subtle dimensions of your physical body, but even deeper or the subtle dimensions of your very subtle body which is below even that. So anything that's going to bring you in, anything is going to send you into the center of yourself is a beautiful thing to do whether it's yoga, meditation, this type of interval pashmina, fantastic. This is hard and has taken some time as I have a very hard time just letting the body be and not driving it. Boy, there is a revelatory honest statement isn't a true very hard time just letting the body be in that driving it. Well. This is why we get sick. Because we do drive it and we drive it off course and so to whatever extent we can just let the body be I mean, this is what sleep forces sleep forces us to just let the body be and this is why if you don't sleep, you die. Not lit metaphorically, you literally die. So nature forces us into sleep still to let the body just be stopped driving it because if we continue to drive it we're going to drive it into the gutter, and we're gonna kill ourselves and we do it. So whatever we can do, this is so lovely. What you're saying here, whatever you can do to just be with your body. Really sensitively. The deeper you go the more you're going to discover. The more you're going to realize the body doesn't need to be driven body will naturally drive and Coast's itself. So this is really lovely. For instance, when observing my breath, which often induces a sort of anxiety
Yeah, so anyway, if you're here listening and want to say something about this first thing about mind becoming suddenly the moment I can try to address that I literally just don't understand it. It's alright. Okay. Oh God, um, let me get him a muted real quick Oh, cool. Excellent. always the best.
Okay, it should be good to go now I think yeah, fell far away
oh, he said he has to restart a Zoom audio is not working. Okay. Well, let him restart it and then we can come back on and we can call on him. Okay. Cool. Yeah, it's always best when I can
have some interchange.
Okay, here's another one. Yeah, these are great. These are just great. Sorry, they're a little bit long. I was taking my bio from my mother as a baby and things didn't get better after that until I was on my own. All the trauma lit and ate chairs at a very young age to escape them. I taught myself to lucid dream and ours also started to astral travel. Good for you. I mean a good for you for having that. Experience, but good for you to teach yourself lucid dreaming. After doing this for a few years, I started to question my waking state versus my dream state. I definitely know what you're talking about. Read my introduction to my book Dream Yoga, where I hit share a four page story where I almost thought I was going to lose my mind. Because I couldn't tell the difference between waking and dreaming reality. This was long time ago. I started to question my waking dream state at times not being sure which was which yep, I know exactly what that's like. And that's when things really got interesting. I can totally relate to that. I am an indigenous descent and was sent to live with pretty strict religious people that look down on all this is witchcraft. Yes. Because it scares them. It doesn't fit the conventional mode so they freak out. Everybody does that. close minded people. So the trick is, this is this is again, it's very easy for me and others to look and say, Oh, they're so close minded. I always pause and say Okay, where am I close minded? Where what am I blind spots? What am I not seeing? So I don't want to be hubris stick and say they're closed minded. We're all close minded until you're a Buddha. You're close minded. It just depends. On the degree of the closures and your awareness of it or not. I'm absolutely closed minded in ways I don't even know yet. But at least I'm trying. Okay, so when I pick up a truck, when I pick when I picked a truck tire up with one finger, that's awesome. That's really cool. Let's just say none of this was ever encouraged. I have to giggle here because it's so true. It's hysterical in a sad way. And I was ostracized Yes, because you didn't fit the mold. You're a pariah because you make people uncomfortable. You're liminal. Being because you're not fitting the standard mode. And you know, the issue was not with you the issue was with them. I was ostracized and it caused a great deal of trouble. I bet it did. I'm so sorry. You had to go through it. Especially at a young age. That's when it's really really hard. So I started to suppress it. Yeah, classic. And I thought it was just probably going crazy and that what I was doing would be dangerous. No, it's not dangerous. It's just dangerous and that certain setting. The fact that you thought you're going crazy again is totally normal, giving the kind of constrained environment in which you share the story. So my heart goes out to you. This is really, it's sad. But at least you're identifying it and it looks like you're at least working with it, which is beautiful. In my adulthood, I've had a few other reality bending experiences. Yes. Let me say this. I think this is from Jabra Cabal. The weirder something is the truer it is. Let me say that again. The weirder something is, the truer it is. And I can't I can't I'm not sure if Jeffrey said this or Shawn my friend. Anomalous experiences are intimations of non duality. Let me say that one again, anomalous experiences are intimations of non duality. So what we do is out of fear, we filter out and there's the data here is like we take in less than one 10 trillion of what's happening around us. And that tiny little sliver that gets through gets through all our crazy filters that basically gets through to support the continuing ridiculous way we have of looking at the world. This is all part of this crazy, ridiculous contraction thing. And so basically, well, let me just continue here. My adulthood I've had a few other reality bending experiences. Yes, celebrate them. You're not going crazy. Everybody else is crazy. You're you're dropping into reality. They tend to happen either when I'm in deep meditation, beautiful. I'm not sure if something has happened till it is confirmed by another or I'm daydreaming about doing something and then I am told that at the time I was seen doing that thing I was daydreaming about. Okay, that's cool. And honesty, I don't know how many times I do or have done these things except for the times have been confirmed by other people. I mean, does it matter? Does it need to be confirmed by other people? I mean, in terms of understanding so you don't think you're literally going clinically crazy. And by the way, parenthetically, that only takes place when you lose metacognition when you lose the capacity to reflect upon what you're experiencing. And what does that mean you start to reify the experience. So that's the only time it ever becomes problematic. If your heart is open and big enough, your worldview is big enough. This kind of shamanistic liminal being stuff that's just starts to be your beautiful, wonderful, rich, magical world. It's delightful. You should celebrate it. And don't worry about these other people. I think it was James, what was his name? The sociologist Coleman James Coleman writes about how it is that I wish I had the quote. How it is that when you challenge other people's dreams, you're going to be in trouble right? In other words, when you when you chat, Whitney and challenge other people's realities, you're a liminal being. You don't fit in LGBTQ and then the new one, the topo Z. I mean, these people, these wonderful beings that just don't fit into conventional modes are really unsettling. For people. Trump he was like this. So you are a very gifted open, beautiful receptive soul has had these amazing experiences. Take refuge in your experiences. Easier said than done. Don't let yourself be constrained. Again, not easy to do realize you're not weird, the weirder your experience the true word. I mean, within limits, right. And again, that goes overboard when you lose metacognitive capacities that psychosis. I don't see anything like that here. You're just really intuitive, Empath psychic kind of person. This too has led me to feeling a little bit crazy crazy. Isn't it's all a matter of degree. Who's crazy. You're not crazy. The other people are crazy. But now I know about Dream Yoga. I know this is real and I just all in my head. Absolutely. I have no idea what to do and where to start. Well start by taking refuge in your own experience in your own heart. Strengthen it perhaps by exploring some of these traditions that work with this and not just Buddhist or Hindu but the shamanistic traditions read the work of melodrama Sony. Read the work of Carlos Castaneda read the work of these alternative. French thinkers experiencers and realize you know, this is par for the course once you start to open the aperture of awareness. You start to perceive reality without filters celebrate it. The relationship to these issues. It's like the it's like the meditation experiences I was talking about earlier. There's nothing at all problematic when any of what you're sharing here. None. The issue is relationship, your relationship to yourself your relationship to the experience, and also the way others write. This is where the real inner work becomes a warrior practice warriorship where it takes real courage to be true to yourself to speak and live your truth. And you'll have casualties you'll lose friends quote unquote, you will lose people who are really not into your they're into you challenging their worldview. You make them uncomfortable. Trust me my life has been radically simplified as these friends just drop away. They don't want to be challenged and you're challenged me just by the way you're living your life. The closest lead to someone that knows what I'm talking about a lot. There's many others. But I'm glad that I can maybe say a few things. Any suggestion of information I would greatly appreciate. Yeah, read the work of Geoffrey Nepal read listen to the talk. I did the first of two what I just did the first one listen to the interview I did with Sean SPR and Hargens on Exos studies and read that paper. The bottom of that link on edge of mind we have a paper I posted a paper. I think it's called a wild Cosmos with a que read that paper. And the more you have that kind of larger EXO view, big open view, the more you realize, whoa, I'm not the nutcase here. The closed minded people are the nut cases, right? Yeah, so listen to explore Shawn's work. He's writing two or three books on that this year. He's a good friend. Our last experiences happened in the last four years and despite my stopping my intentional practice around astral traveling and lucid dreaming as a kid my abilities have grown Oh, that makes me happy good for you. I teleported and walk through a wall as an adult. Oh, high five. That's awesome. I no longer fear what people around me think. Yes. And I see this as a gift.
Yes,
but a gift. I cannot properly use without the foundational teachings and practices. This is beautiful. This is just brilliant. Yes. Sometimes what happens here is this is wonderful, kind of pie tart approach in Buddhism of understanding, experience. Realization. We've talked earlier about experience and realization. I'm going to say now a word about retrofitting everything with understanding and what you're saying here is so spot on. That we can have and I speak from personal experience. We all can have experiences. They're not realizations because they're not stable. We can absolutely have experiences prematurely. In the sense that you don't have the understanding. You don't have the infrastructure to understand what the heck just happened to me what is actually going on. And that's where things can also become somewhat problematic because again, you reify the experience, you don't know what's happening, that can become a bit of an issue. So what you're doing here is beautiful, you've had experiences. And now what you're saying is fine, I'm retrofit the experience with understanding. And then you realize these experiences are totally normal. They're actually intimations of real growth and development. So maybe what I say can be of some benefit. Maybe some of the people I referenced can be a benefit, but thank you for sharing. This is really beautiful. Love it. Okay, if you're here and you want to come on and say something more, that's great, but if we have, Phil if he's here, are you clear, but did we get him? I think so. And I think I have one more ticket muted. Hey, bud.
Hey, thanks for taking the question. Tony. I don't know it's I'm, I'm ready to sort of move past this question that I asked you. Sort of an old question I've had I just something that puzzled on for a while and I maybe it's confusing, but it's really like when you're sitting when I'm sitting meditating. There's that point where like, if you've you fall asleep, it's like you realize you've you've stopped being present. And, and at some point, it's kind of like the mind takes over like thoughts begin infilling you start identifying with the thoughts and you're gone. It's like this mimicking behavior. And I mean, I can think of kind of answered my own question just by remaining present beyond that and watching kind of how that process happens, but I mean, it's really fast and subtle. And so but I think that just going deeper and deeper than then that edge kind of slows down. That makes sense, but, but that's that's what it is sort of process of then being re consumed. By like, by the identifying reality. Is any of that does that make sense?
Yeah, I think so. If I'm tracking you, I think so. Yes. You know, what am I recommend if I'm hearing you properly, Phil is, is especially when you're dropping into these kinds of liminal spaces you know, your meditation, and you're starting to get really quiet if I heard you properly, and then maybe you're starting to even doze off. This is where you can bring liminal dreaming into play, and work with cultivating witness awareness, which is a little bit like you're saying, I can't remember the exact languaging you're talking about, where you basically retreat in the best sense of the word to dispassionately bear witness to the display. And therefore it doesn't matter what the display is. It's a little bit like the earlier thing about experiences, it really doesn't matter. The issue has wonderful relationship to that display. And so if you can retreat to a truer dimension of your being, that is not so easily swept up and lost in the display, which is what defines non lucidity and samsara in general, then on a very real level, that from that indestructible witnessing point, it doesn't matter what happens, and so on. One level, you could say that is the point. But the quick thing to say is that this doesn't then therefore, you know, this is off when there becomes the witnessing space, instead of differentiating becomes dissociated, right? So that's the near enemy. of differentiation is dissociation. And then from that dissociated state, then you have inappropriate relationships to the arising from the differentiated state. You have you have a really economist relationship to arise, that doesn't matter. So that's what comes to mind is that seem to resonate with you?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, part I think part of the issue is it's a question I'm not even sure I know how to ask or if I'm even perceiving this thing quite the right way. I mean, the other thing I'm thinking about when you talk about it is and I get this part is like the cleaning grasping, nature of, of mind or this this reflexive clinging and grasping, which causes you to, I mean, this on the one sense, this is like a necessary egoistic, egotistic function to operate into the world to like, hold on to stuff, the antidote. For realization is is seeing that process and learning how to relax expand when necessary. So I mean, it's like, and so I think that was, that's part of Yeah,
I mean, I think I think you got it right. And so yes, we do need on a provisional level to have this particular form of development that we know is the ego egos not the problem. It was just a form of development. It becomes problematic when it becomes an arrested form of development, and becomes arrested when we walk we identify school school before him. So the whole notion is transcend, but include the ego, you seem to suggest that we need this this developmental sense in order to relate to others. Our body needs to function by separating our self or other otherwise our immune systems wouldn't work. So that type of development is absolutely critical. And so therefore, when people start trashing the ego, when that's that's not a very helpful thing to do. Because it's like something like going to trash age for No, you don't do that you transcend about included. Ego has a place just don't let it dominate. So yeah, I mean, I don't hear anything that I don't know if sounds of any concern, per se. I mean, it seems pretty darn healthy to me and what I'm hearing.
Sure. And like I said, I was afforded the question and he answered it, I was like, God, maybe that's not exactly the question, but it's it was it was useful anyway for to get the discussion going. And actually our
Go ahead where we're gonna say no, please finish.
Well, actually, what something else you're gonna say it's slightly switches. subject that you're talking about the person you talking about, who says if we were actually to experience everything possible all at once, we would just sort of melt. Yeah, and, and I've always thought that the importance of Buddhism is one of the things it's critical is that with death that for the unprepared mind you basically it is disillusionment, you're gone to the prepared mind, you can transmit this and then have the possibility of coming back in a form that sort of absolutely, whole. That's it or more,
actually, because there's a voluntary whole because then you're coming back voluntarily. This reminds me if you haven't seen the movie yet everything everywhere all at once. Yes, Academy word. Check this thing out, man.
I watched part of it. And it was, it was 25 minutes of it was enough to digest
it. It's hysterical, right? This is a classic illusory form Bartle film is just insane. Yeah. And it's some of it happens so fast and it's so effing funny. So when you said yeah, when when we talked about everything, experience everything all at once you're gonna resolve well watch this film everything everywhere all at once. It's just a riot. At least I thought it was cool. Anyway, something like that comes to mind but yeah, thanks for sharing. Phil. I appreciate it, man.
Yeah, thanks for time. This is really great. It's totally unexpected. And so appreciate. Absolutely.
So primed us and then there are two other questions that came in but these are these are really long, and they just came in buzzer shots. So I'm gonna get those next time. I'll put in front and center a really nice one about pure lands and pure land experiences. But this is this is like a page and a half that I have to digest, summarize and respond to. So Prem will go with you and then I tried to clip this up around our half mark anyway, so fire away my friend.
Yes, sir. Andrew. I had a question about perception. And, you know, within the sub hoga kya. You know, because I'm kind of fixated on these 18 tattoos and the I optimize and you know, the sense sensory organs and so I'm like, That
framework
is X can can that framework be adapted?
That framework is transcended,
okay. So the sense organs do not participate in the perception in the sunbug
not in the normal way know that the sense organs are actually transcended. So this is part of that. What's it called fracture Dar, I think it's called the withdrawal phase, right? The senses are actually transformed in the tattoos in the doctors and the ayatollahs and all those really brilliant, wonderful, I'll be dominant descriptions. They they they're transcended. And so you literally start to perceive in new ways. You start to get all the sense faculties are actually transcended, and so, again, you transcend it but include the ayatollahs and the doctors and the scandals and all that kind of stuff. But they don't function in the way so that that particular your, your Ristic has to be left behind, which is exactly why you go from terror hit IANA to Mahayana, Tomas Viana. So this is more not a criticism. This is more Tara Vana. Tera Vaada hitting Jana description is fantastically powerful, because what does it do? It starts to atomize it starts to do automatize the the reified self sense that's remember this is that we share this with you Pam does this. This was a really interesting thing for me. I don't know 30 years ago I was attending I think it might have been the first and the Ptarth Institute, month long training. So patrolling and it started off with two weeks of Tang Rinpoche and then two weeks with polar Baba che was fantastic month. And I remember very clearly talking he was in for the first two weeks and there was all this stuff. We're talking about all this stuff about mind and its functions and the Abbe Dharma and all these lists and lists and the doctors and a ton of them that Scott is having, you know, this stuff is like endless. It's amazing. And he said something that was really kind of, I wouldn't say he got irritated, but it was very interesting. And again, this is my projection. But he kind of went like this after like the 15th question. He said, It's all the same. It's all the same. It's all the same. And then and then it's like, what is he talking about? It's all the same. And now I realize what he was getting at, because the scan is that it's icons all the time. And it's like, what, what, and I think 30 years later, I think what you're saying is they're all They're all the same in the sense of each one of these skillful means is a way to de automatize deconstruct the reified self sense. And so therefore, that's why he got 12 of these and 18 that and whatever I'm you know, these 32 are that and I mean, it's like unbelievable read an Abbe Dhamma texts that's like family. So I think if you understand that fundamental narrative behind that, then you realize, oh, this is just a way to divide and conquer. To take the you know, it's basically an atomistic approach. That Avi Dharma literally deals with the atoms of experience. And in that regard to me, all of a sudden, something really clicked. It was like, oh, no, that really makes sense to me, you know that this is composed of that all these numbers, numbers, on one level when he says all things all the same. I think that's what he's talking about, which really makes sense to me. They're very powerful ways to get in there and to deconstruct the D. automatize. All these mechanisms that basically otherwise congeal contract to create this crap show self another called duality,
right.
And then the particulars around that out of the eye atomism about us, because as you know, they don't talk so much about the tattoos and they I taught us both temperature let me take that back. He did talk about them is something like purified AI autonomous, where basically we read
your book. So I recommend for
you glimpses of Bobby Dharma, which is a tantric view of the Abbe dharma. It's a masterpiece. And also his book, Shambala psychopath of the warrior. He has some really interesting things. Oh, he called them limitless AI autonomous. That's what he did. He talks about limitless Ayatollahs, which is when the sense gates when you open to that extent, they become infinite, and he talks about these forms of supernatural perception. But then when you enter that, that particular heuristic is left behind. Yeah, you can talk about the the purified scan is is the five Buddhas and that sort of thing. It's all great. But when you go to Mahayana, and Adrianna in a real way that transcends this atomistic approach.
So, in the yoga Chara paradigm, the the first five big Nana's first five consciousnesses when they become the all encompassing wisdoms, that's another way of traveling. Okay, yeah. That's that's the same thing that you're getting at, I think. Or is it? Yes,
yes. On one level. Yes, that's where and that's what makes yoga Chara so bloody brilliant. It's a bridge between Mahayana and Andriana. So it's a classic. It's such a powerful teaching tool that starts with a consciousnesses right and then now each one of those is you know, has their own sub dharmas. And then what it does when those they're not again, they're not purified and alleviated, I shouldn't say, removed in that sense they're transformed. The consciousness are transformed into the wisdoms, and that actual moment of transformation is exactly the moment from any anima Hayata. To Tantra. See, and that's why the yoga Chara is so bloody brilliant, because in a real real way it acts especially if Metallica yoga, Chara, right. You join those two together. That is the brilliant transition between the market the causal vehicles and the fruition will be a goal and that's why it's studying that the yoga Chara from that perspective is really helpful. Schubert Thank you, sir. Okay. All right, everybody. So there were a couple more that came in but they came a little bit late and they were really long. I'll get to them next week, I promise. And there was also another one I'm trying to find it because some of these don't come in through the usual Give me one second. They don't come in through the usual thing sometimes let me see if I can find it real quick. If not, I'll pull it up next time I promise.
I finding it bomber Okay, all right. Sorry. Crush me. 329 Time to go. Thanks everybody. Remember we dedicate our merit anything we've done, evaluate, don't keep it for ourselves. Bring it all together, spread it out across the world so we don't hoard the stuff. Remember, the only way to hold on to anything is to let it go. dedicate the merit for the benefit of all sentient beings. See you around. I'll be back in two weeks. Otherwise, stay healthy. Stay safe. Thanks for your great questions. I hope I don't speak through these too quickly. But there's a lot to get through and sometimes I talk quickly. So bye bye, everybody. If you want to unmute yourself and turn your mic, we do this little group hug thing. It's always kind of sweet. Until next time, ciao, ciao. Thanks. Bye
